Why do cape comics seem so disposable and inconsequential compared

>explain my opinion to me

because you're delusional and believe that an action series with the exact same tropes is somehow different just because they're not wearing costumes

File: EveryoddyearatDC.jpg (351KB, 646x964px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 646x964px

>>92632620
Sliding Timescale/Continuity Reboots/Status Quo.

>>92632649
This, there will only even be one telling of berserk, there may be 29 copies in the seinen genre but still only Berserk.
How many comics can I read about batman's origin in?

>>92632638
No just seems like someone always dies or comes back to life

Or the universe is reset 100 times

>>92632620
because fans will always buy their favorite heroes comics, no matter the quality of the work
they don't buy it to read it, they buy it to hoard it and say "I'm a comic collector"

>>92632686
Well thats what happens when your story becomes more of a product and is bounced between 100s of writers. Everyone has different ideas, different visions and what not. In order for DC and Marvel to also sell they have to keep stories 'fresh' and one of those ways is via deaths or large cataclysmic events that could rock their world. At this point many comic readers roll their eyes when the headline, 'THIS CHARACTER IS GONNA DIE' comes up because we already know they're gonna comeback either through resurrection or an alternate universe one which is almost exactly like the one lost.

If you want good cape stories read Astro City or indie ones. At least with indie ones they have an actual ending.

>>92632686
>No just seems like someone always dies or comes back to life

You need to read more manga if you think this shit's any different.

>>92632620
Well with something like Berserk in particular, it's because it's a singular vision . The creator is also the main writer. When it ends it just ends. That's better than never ending stories with rotating writers with varying degrees of quality.

Psycho Busters suck so much ass. AND it's generic

>>92632649
this

in Japan, they generally seem more interested in a story as a whole, including it's ending, whereas in the west they feel that ending something would mean it stops making money, so things just go on forever and the numerous victories don't feel as important

consider something like Cowboy Bebop, that series has a definitive ending, and though some people don't like the ending or wish it hadn't ended, it still left the series on a period; and the only time they revisited it afterwards for the movie, it was just another story set before the ending of the series, and it has no impact on the canon ending that the series left on

Trigun did the same thing actually, the movie badlands rumble was just another self contained story

occasionally you get reboots, but those are never advertised as "the new definitive" version, they are just an alternate take on the characters and events, like GITS Arise or the Evangelion Rebuild movies

don't know how the DBZ movies fit though, considering they are an alternate universe (and they may or may not be the SAME universe between all films?)

I'm just rambling at this point

>>92632686
Didn't like, every Naruto character die at least once?

>>92632620
Why do people like ripoff Devilman so much?

>>92633160
Who cares about Naruto?

>>92633248
A amazing amount of people for some bizarre reason.
But besides that, I can see what he means. One of the more popular series in Japan falls into similar tropes like Dragon Ball or Western Hero stuff.

Naruto, inuyasha, one piece, Berzerk CLEARLY had no ending in mind. It went on forever for as long as possible. That's why they had plenty of filler arcs

>>92632620
Sometimes it is a situation of too many cooks working on the same dish for 50+years.

Some characters are written off cause some writer didn't care about them, some characters written back cause New writer liked them, some characters used cause some execs thought it'd be a good idea to get attention from nonreaders.

I mean lot of non-cape stuff can go to crap too, but any problems from them can be more pinpointed cause of fewer hands dealing with it (a more Indy comic is usually character owned so blame is more likely the writer if it goes to crap while in a big comics like Superman who knows had the final say-so in the idea of killing superman for example)

>>92633394
Creator* owned not character owned.
Fucking brainfart

>>92632620
That's like your opinion man, I'd wager heavily ignorant too.

Like, I like a good manga, some of my favorites are Bonnouji, Kakukaku Shikajika, for example, but if I was told I am to be stranded on an island and I get to bring either those two, or volume 2 of Daredevil, I'd pick the latter.

>>92633119
>in Japan, they generally seem more interested in a story as a whole, including it's ending, whereas in the west they feel that ending something would mean it stops making money
Do you seriously fucking think when mangakas get their sloppy one-shots serialized they have a clear ending in mind?

Invincible is how manga is written.

And Cowboy Bebop is a fucking anime original.

>>92633341
And Rurouni Kenshin is still getting new material, somehow.

>>92632620
OP could have posted a picture of the Watchmen or Sandman and asked why manga seems so cheap and poorly planned in comparison.

>>92633449
Most of the good stories of the Big 2 only are enjoyable when you pretend that nothing happens after it ends.

>>92633473
It varies from Manga to Manga mate.

>>92633505
>It varies from Manga to Manga mate.
And here's your argument for comics.

>>92633473
This, there is a lot of shit that gets made.

File: strange-aeons.1399386511275.death-wizard-rick.Incredible_Hulk_399-008.jpg (648KB, 846x727px) Image search: [Google]

648KB, 846x727px

>>92632620
Why do autists make the same thread, over and over and over again?

>>92632620
In a single phrase:

Endless recycling of characters and plots.

>>92633119
I thought the new Evas were literally reality denying it's own end. Red ocean and all that.

>>92632620
>>92632638
They're only similar in that they may be sometimes drawn out too long, and the stars have special powers, but other mediums trump cape comics in a few big ways. They end, characters change, die, but their characterization remains consistent.

The only ones that don't traditionally end is shin-chan, and other slice of life. Shonen, Senin, Europeon, otehr types of comics, have beginings, middles and ends. Good ones even have end goals.

Cape comics do not, nobody wants to get rid of characters, ro have them move on in anyway, and they hire hack writers who are always trying to reinvent the wheel for aany given hero or villain, so to speak.

>>92633578
You mean the same exact thing that manga does?

>>92633548
and she did

>>92633604
Is she still a harpy these days, or does she have GAMMA powers like Rick?

>>92632620
Mostly because most mangas tend to have only one author and have to end one way or another while most cape comic IPs have had dozens of different writers.

It's the same shit. I thought berserk was special at first then I kept reading it and nothing of note happened

>>92632649
This.

>>92633473
Manga do have an ending in mind, lots do, some don't. Invincible was like this, til he ran out of material, same forTWD. Which is a shame, since TWD is a perfect vehicle for new plotlines in the same universe with their own contained stories.

And even if there is no specific lead up to an end, they usually have an end in mind for a given series. Like, Deathnote always had the intention of Light dying, Onepiece was always going to end on finding one piece, Dragon ball was a retelling of journey to the west, later in DBZ, they always intend for it top end at each final boss. There's always a final plot in mind, there needs to be. Just like in Berserk, we know that the final confrontation bewtween Guts, Griffith, and the void is going to happen.

>>92633685
>implying berserk will end
Lol

File: 72c.jpg (18KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 600x450px

>>92633685
>This delusion

>>92632620
Because nothing that happens in them matters since it will all be retconned when the next writer takes over.

All manga end. There will never not be a Batman comic

>>92633592
How many different mangas are written about the same character by different writers and illustrators?

Or, to re-phrase my initial statement, how many stories and characters are recycled between different mangas? How many origin stories of the same character are repeated by different writers? Etc.

Cape comics are green as hell. Reduce, reuse, recycle, god knows there are only so many animal-themed suits you can cram mild mannered citizens into.

I really enjoy how the arguments in this thread were warped from 'manga is different from cape comics because it will always have a definite end' which is a completly rational and correct argument.
To the hilarious strawman of 'Baka ganjin superior 10000x folded superior nipon comics always ave the perfectly formed unchanged unedited ending in mind before the first panel of the first page of the manga is ever written'.

>>92632620
Because you're a disgusting weeb.

>>92633800
Dragonball might not end.

>>92632649
tpbp

File: madman-20th-cover-1stpeek.jpg (123KB, 584x563px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 584x563px

>>92632620
Both comics and manga have good and bad parts
It's up to you to search for the good ones

>>92635443
Way to miss the point.

>>92632620
Without reading the rest of the thread, consistency in storytelling.

half-way into the thread, west tends to re-tread ground with their pillar characters or re-launch consistently.

https://youtu.be/BnaC0RgEPCw
https://youtube.com/watch?v=73WWpKyuWL4


Why dont western cartoons into good music?

Even babby anime like One piece feels more impactful

>>92632620
It's not a difference between the west and the east but between one writer or multiple writers.

>>92632620
In moonland, mango live and die with a single author. They have faith that a new series will come along that is popular enough to supplant the old one eventually. Capeshit keeps the same characters and basic framework and cycles through endless authors. There isn't a single vision behind a single story. You get a dozen writer's takes over the course of a couple decades, each one becoming less and less definitive than the one before it.

File: bong.png (577KB, 618x658px) Image search: [Google]

577KB, 618x658px

>>92633957
>Dragonball might not end.
Dragonball might go on another 20 years (God Help Us), but at least he'll grow up, have kids, and grandkids, and not be stuck in some Peter Pan state where he's 36 forever and accumulating wards and sidekicks until it no longer even half makes sense.

God, I just defended the Dragonball Universe.
But I am sick to death of 8 year old Franklin Richards.

>>92633957

Technically Dragonball did end. Dragonball Super is animated sequel with a concurrently running manga not even drawn by Toriyama.

>>92633685
Following your logic, comics have more endings in mind than manga.

Back in the Stan Lee day they were just glad to be able to release an issue next month and every story is largely episodic like Cowboy Bebop.

>>92636794
He became a god in DB Super. He and Vegeta are all set to be immortal and watch over their descendants.

>>92633685
>berserk
>end
hahahahahahahaha, i have a boat ride to sell you

>>92633916
Check out Tvtropes and you'll see a dozen archetype manga characters used over and over and over

>>92632620
Other series tend to be the work of a single creator or team. Cape comics get one run with their original creators and then they're glorified fanfiction forever.
Notice that cape comics become much more enjoyable when they're the domain of only one creator like with Hellboy, Invincible, etc.

>>92636926
There are scores of Superman rip-offs as well.
The real point is that we have YET AGAIN just finished telling of the early years story of Superman/bro/dad/whatever the fuck he's supposed to be now.

>>92635443
Being hollowly diplomatic doesn't make you more mature than people who take a side on things.

>>92636513
This. I realize /co/ is so pleb they hear "indie comics" and think "Image", but seriously if you go out and find shit from Fanta or Humanoids that's handled by one creator, Western comics can be just as great as Eastern ones if not better.
The problem isn't Western comics. Its not even superheroes. Its Marvel, DC, and their imitators.

>>92637184
No one mature cares about being mature.

DC and Marvel are IP factories that exist to keep ownership over properties and nothing more,once you accept that and learn to care more about creators (including their non DC/Marvel work) the better

>>92636926
All fiction uses archetypes. Its not comparable to using the same exact character over and over again ad infinitum.

>>92637221
That's relevant how...?

>>92637280
To the subject of the reply.

>>92637048
If we ignore the constant manga overhyping going on here, I don't know, maybe? I started coming to /co/ because of the free next day viewing of Dumbing of Age. But all this capeshit stuff is so interesting and vastly superior reading experience than any of the other webcomics. Batman, superman. They're beloved characters and love reading and watching more stories about them. They must be doing something right and should continue on

Tho I admit, I HAAAAATE how they keep retelling Sailor Moon's origin story for every incarnation. Literally spending a whole season or two on the same beginnings when they could have just continues the story more. So I can understand what OP means I guess

>>92637254
Yeah but it's more obvious in manga industry with its very specific few set of archetypes it uses. That's why it's so easy to ignore a whole bunch of them unless there's a niche that you can fap to

>>92636909
They've been off the boat for almost 2 years now man, where have you been?

>>92632638
Because japan-related media will always be superior than western shit?

>>92632620
Because from what I have seen in my life, it's because capes have been written by committee these past several years.

>>92632638
In his defense, the costumes do look retard

>>92632620
capes get rewritten over and over again to the point where canon gives you a headache. weeb shit is a straight story usually or it just never ends.

>>92632649
100% this

how the fuck do you get into cape comics, who's run of what timeline of what hero do you read? why do writers and artists change every issue? even between issues?

I tried to read Ms Marvel and was totally thrown off by this. Turn your nose at me but compared to
>one writer/artist

it's complicated.

Add in stuff that invalidates the story, like reboots, status quo, and spinoff-noncanon-crossovers, why do you care about what's happening in the story? Why is it important when it'll be written over anyway? How are characters consistent when they're juggled between writers?

And this one writer argument of mangas is false. The editors still have a say, and they're constantly putting up popularity polls so the original vision mangakas have are destroyed in favor of possibly shot popular characters to have the plot revolve around them instead. It's just the same shit

read Image or Vertigo you fagget

>>92632620
mangas are owned by the writers not enterprises so the writer put his soul in the characters and stories besides they have freedom to vary subjects instead of a style of story and appearance. Japanese public is bigger, more educated and more opened so they read a lot. Manga writers are cultivated from a young age and usually they have another profession engineering, medicine, laws, what they know from those fields influence in their stories making them distinct

In a way, Marvel and DC are an anomaly in the comic industry, an exception from any other comics in history. Just like how World of Warcraft is always going to have millions of subscribers in the MMO industry. Or Q-tips. Or whatever other monopoly

>>92637943
Having an editor keep your writing in line is something universal in media. Book writers, animators, newspapers, everyone has editors keeping them in check.

It's very different than having multiple artists, writers, editors, reboots, for the same character in less than a decade

>>92632620
Because reboots

>>92638185
You can strawman argument all you want. I don't think the stories are disposable because there's multiple writers. We have people going to war about which Wonder Woman runs were superior and superman prime time meming.

The stories are clearly resonating within people. And lots of story timing going on the board.

If capeshit isn't your thing, okay then. Feel free to ignore it and let everyone else have their discussions

>>92632620
>>92637583
>>92635990
Hey Monom/a/. How's the superiority autism hanging?

>>92638479
You're using strawman argument incorrectly, I'm also not OP.

The stories resonate, but the lack of new readers is a epidemic in comics. I'd love for cape comics to become as mainstream in the US as manga is for the entire SEA, this thread just lists some reasons why that hasn't been the case.

Graphic novels like Scott Pilgrim have adapted and sell exponentially better than say, Ms. Marvel. Watchmen is a good example, too.

>>92633341
>Naruto
Become hokage
Inuyasha
>Get all the jewel shards
>One Piece
Find One Piece.

Those are endings. They're simplistic and yeah maybe they take forever to get there, but those are end goals. I dunno enough about Berzerk to say one way or the other if it fits that mold but compare that to like, Spider-man. There's no end goal there. It can go on forever.

To the people telling others to read third party or that not all comics are like that, OP specifically said cape comics and he's not at all wrong.

>>92638479
Yeah, we do have people going to war about which Wonder Woman runs are superior to others. And if they think those others belong in the trash, then yeah, they're disposable to those fans.

The idea that some runs are disposable isn't contested, just which ones are and which aren't.

Marvel gets a lot of shit but the X-Men have consistently been a brand that doesn't just undo decisions (except for Prof X constantly coming back to life) and the characters have had large arcs over time.

>>92638479

You didn't even TRY to refute his argument, you just ignored it. Sad stuff.

Also popularity polls and rankings only have an effect on some magazines aka shonen stuff and some authors.

i think some of you don't actually read manga and just like to make wild baseless generalizations.

>>92639343
>aka shounen stuff
capeshit is almost directly analogous to shounen stuff

>>92632620
96%of the population in Japan has a degree from a university.

>>92633007
Why? Because you say it is?
Lol
Your opinion stands on nothing.

>>92632638
>Not wearing costumes

>>92636926
Way to move the goalposts. Let me just put them back into place.

How many different writers write about a character with the same name and appearance and personality and sidekick and lair and rivals and city and origin story?

Zoiks!

Look, it's not a question of Japan versus the West, it's the World versus the incestuous little puddle that is the US capeshit industry.

There are good independent, non-recycled American comics, but they get crowded out by capeshit. That's why Eurocomics get better press - because they aren't living under the shadow of Squirrelman Issue 9823: How Squirrelman Got his Tail - The All New Origin Story!

>>92633633
She has now shown up much since Captain Marvel.

File: berserk-1591947.jpg (320KB, 1200x890px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 1200x890px

>>92639148
>I dunno enough about Berzerk to say one way or the other
You,re missing out man, give it a go some time. It's a quality fantasy comic

>>92639574
Doubt it if it's jap.

>>92639536
The goalpost was always the original question of the original post

I don't feel like entertaining irrelevant arguments

Capeshit can be good and have been good before. I don't care about company war bs, I can choose whatever I want to read. . It's existence shouldn't make you be unable to enjoy independent comics like Strangers In Paradise or any other comics. This is what /co/ is for

>>92639653
>can be good
this completely ignores OP's statement, he said why does cape seem so inconsequential compared to manga; not why is it lesser quality

Sure Batman can have some good stories now and then, but he will always be the same old Batman fighting the same villains doing the same things forever and ever.

>>92639210
>OP specifically said cape comics
Not all cape comics are part of the Marvel and DC universes like Invincible, Astro City, or Top 10 to name a few.

File: bstill113.png (1MB, 1613x1793px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1613x1793px

>>92639611
i'm not him and i haven't read or watched any anime in 6 years, but you've gotta check it out if you're into graphic novels

Miura's one of the most famous illustrators on earth

>>92639886
the amount of non-Big 2 cape comics compared to even just shounen manga makes bringing them up almost irrelevant

Like yeah, sure, Irredeemable is one and Astro City is one but you could probably name all of the readable non-Big 2 cape comics on your two hands. OP obviously means the overwhelming popularity of Big 2 cape.

>>92639653
The question I asked you is the question I asked you, and which you flinched away from answering, because your answer embarrassed you. So you answered a comfier question that no-one asked. Philosophise all you like about that.

To be honest, I don't know why you would be embarrassed about the incestuous culture of cape comics, even from a patriotic point of view, because it only involves a few hundred people out of millions in the US (comics proper, not movies.)

Capeshit - there's no reason a story about Batman or Superman can't be good - if it has conquences, or even the possibility of consequences.

But they're about as likely to have character arcs as Bugs Bunny, because they are used and re-used eternally, like one of those rotating towels you sometimes find in public toilets.

Why do they interfere with independent comics?
Ask a random american what comic books are about. They will mention stuff about capeshit. Odds are maybe one in a hundred thousand (being generous) that they will talk about the medium itself, independent of capeshit content. How many decent artists and writers don't even consider working in comics because they don't want to write about yet another Groundhog Day in the life of The Black Badger and his spherical-titted female sidekick Rabbitina, whose facial expressions appear to all have been traced from pornographic stills, or whatever? The well is fucking poisoned.

File: 1488594106031.jpg (55KB, 862x892px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 862x892px

>>92633007
>Berserk ending
>Ever
You poor child.

>>92640295
It's never gonna end when he does a Togashi to people. But then again at least he keeps his promise and and isn't an unhealthy bastard.

Manga writing is really shitty in it majority.

Yeah, sure, it has a beggining and an end, but the characterization and pacing is shit.

Cape comics don't usually have the same urgency to them since you know the main characters won't actually die, but at least the story arcs are well written.

"Hurr no one dies" is a shit argument.

>>92641790
this (and most of this thread) is one of the most incredible generalizations i've ever seen

File: overlord-momonga.1491444343447.png (315KB, 627x555px) Image search: [Google]

315KB, 627x555px

>>92638926
I read that a momong/a/ at first, and got confused.

>>92639436
I'd love to have a source for that. I intend to use it to piss people off.

Superheroes are too iconic for their own good in the west sometimes. If comics had a forward moving chronologies and had new blood heroes introduced that the torch was ACTUALLY passed to, then I think it would be awesome. Kamen Rider doesn't handle it extremely well, but even if you don't like the new hero or story, then you'll have the next one to look forward to. And even if a certain hero's run was done badly, the fact that he's a part of the legacy still makes it feel fresh. Oldies can still show up in fun non canon capacities, but they're never the main show. It's the new hero's time to shine. Sorry for the ramble. I don't think comics are bad how they are, but I feel they could be a lot more dynamic and interesting if they weren't bound to specific characters so tightly.

>>92632620
Manga is literally made to be thrown away. That's why they sell it in large anthologies made with shit paper.

Are you implying most manga or indie comics cant be made to be disposable,OP? If anything, cape comics are sold to be collectibles by the niche market that still stupidly thinks these fucking pieces of paper will eventually cost a fortune.

File: Neito_Monoma.png (89KB, 374x527px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 374x527px

>>92642508
For context: Whenever /a/non makes a "East is superior to west" or "why can't western ____" thread, instantly thought of Monoma of BnHA.

>Has a superiority complex
>starts shit with class A because his autism loves making conflict
>Talks a lot of crap.

Never respond to Monom/a/ guys.