So if the gods exist outside the multiverse did zues create diana

He didn't even create Diana in the main universe.

>>92600599
If there is only one Antimatter Universe, did the Guardians of the Universe banish multiple Sinestros to the same planet where the Qwardians forged multiple, identical rings?

>>92600599
Only the New Gods are outside of the multiverse because they are somehow closer to The Source, and even then there are 'shadows' of the New Gods in all the universes that are part avatar and part reflection of the true power of the original New Gods.

There is a Zeus in every earth that acts his own way. That is how they explain some Zeus versions being dicks to outright villains while others are actually uninvolved with the world like Azzarello's Zeus.

>>92600599
>if the gods exist outside the multiverse
They don't

>>92600688
>>92600704
No, they live in the Godsphere per Multiversity.

I know with the New Gods it's just their avatars on the individual Earths, but that's supposedly because of being shattered in Final Crisis, so I don't know what the story is with the old gods like the Greeks.

>>92600761
So that's why some versions of Barda, Highfather and Miracle are villains while most of the time they're heroes?

>>92600761
Where is the Godsphere located on the map of the multiverse and Orrery of Worlds? Last I heard the New Gods were in some realm that was outside the main Multiverse and were looking 'down' into the multiverse to watch their shadow selves fight against Darkseid to try to stop him from combining all the different versions of himself into something greater, or something along those lines.

>>92600599
Well there are differences, I remember reading that Earth 2 Diana had Roman gods instead

>>92600652
Oddly enough, there are very few Earths that have a Green Lantern Corps or a Sinestro.

File: Multiversity_Map_2400_53ee6b4c22d9a9.11031355.jpg (887KB, 2400x1880px) Image search: [Google]

887KB, 2400x1880px

>>92600788
Yes, the New Gods of Earth-51 (closest to the Source) even comment on it in Multiversity.

>>92600812
Right outside the main Multiverse.

The idea as I understand it is that the gods in the Godsphere are basically conceptual, for example the meta concept of the god Zeus, a godhead, basically what you'd read in a Wikipedia article about Zeus.

The Zeus that appears in the comics is an imprint of that meta concept, like a light going through a filter it's twisted by that Earth's rules.

So the part where I'm not totally sure on is that, per Final Crisis, the New Gods were "killed" and those imprints were what was leftover, acting independently and possibly "out of character". Or at the very least Darkseid was. And in Multiversity it's basically said that Darkseid wants to combine those imprints again to reassemble his godhead.

So I'm not sure if that applies the same way to the old gods. I don't know if their imprints act independently. They seem to, because obviously their memories don't carry over between universes or timelines. William Messner-Loebs' run on Wonder Woman even specifically said that the gods that we see interacting with the Earth aren't their actual forms, just imprints of them.

>>92600652
I don't know, but this is what I will think until proven wrong. That just sounds great.

>>92600942
Well then what about stories in their realm not on Earth. For example Darkseid has two origins, one as a farmer and one as the son of the last ruler of Apokolips. Neither of these stories take place on any Earth to be filtered through to make imprints on and take place where they reside aka the place outside the multiverse.

In my opinion that is the biggest argument against the they are all the same but different imprints/avatars/etc interpretation.

So by avatars and imprints you guys mean thyre like a small peice of themselves or a lesser version or something

>>92601069
Think of it like this; if you killed Earth-One's (or whatever the main universe is called now) Zeus, he would die, perhaps permanently if you killed him throughly enough.
However, all Zeus everywhere wouldn't die and if you traveled physically to Olympus you'd probably still run into Zeus because when you go to Olympus you are physically traveling to the IDEA of Olympus, and the ones that interact with people from the main universe are sort of just the versions of themselves that apply to Earth-One.
Earth-Two also has a Zeus, only he's called Jupiter instead.

>>92601069
Yeah, MMOs use the same term avatar for games. The little dude on the screen is you in the game but not literally you, your avatar for the mmo setting.

>>92601004
I think the explanation would be that those origins are stories, and since the "real" Darkseid is metaconceptual and not literal, it works the same way as how some Greek legends have conflicting versions.

So since Darkseid is not a literal person, he doesn't have a literal history, just one made up of text and stories.

The metaconceptual Darkseid informs the avatar Darkseid, the avatar Darkseid by interacting with stories adds to the metaconcept of Darkseid, thus informing other avatars of Darkseid, and so on.

One way to explain it is that the "real" Darkseid is the Wikipedia article about Darkseid. When someone writes Darkseid in a story, they draw from the idea of Darkseid as defined on Wikipedia. The Darkseid in the story is a combination of the "real" Darkseid and the artist's own ideas of Darkseid and the world he's being put into. This story will then become another paragraph on Darkseid's Wikipedia page, therefore he is now a part of the "real" Darkseid. Or, the story is so shit nobody reads it and it doesn't get a Wikipedia paragraph, and thus does not become part of Darkseid.

It's all extremely complicated and meta, because it's essentially trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

>>92601069
Like with a video game. You as you exist here in meatspace cannot interact directly with a video game because it's just a simplified representation of our world. So you use a character, or avatar, in order to interact with it. The character isn't you, but it's the only way for you to affect the video game world.

>>92601125
I think it works like this; the Old God (the Olympians and the like) pretty much have shown to have relatively no idea of what goes on on alternate Earths, because each God is sort of an idea that that god represents given physical form that interacts with JUST that on Earth.
They aren't literally being controlled by their higher, true form from Olympus, unless that higher form arbitrarily decides they should never have any knowledge of other examples of themselves in other worlds because they never seem to actually do so.

But on that map >>92600942 the gods are basically right in the edge of the sphere of physical reality where physical concepts start to be rendered meaningless; these gods are NOT individual beings but ideas given form and intent, and ideas can have multiple iterations in multiple places.

So there is no "OverZeus" controlling all of them but there is an "IdeaZeus" that exists abstractly that they all stem from originally that you cannot really kill.

>>92601166
>One way to explain it is that the "real" Darkseid is the Wikipedia article about Darkseid. When someone writes Darkseid in a story, they draw from the idea of Darkseid as defined on Wikipedia. The Darkseid in the story is a combination of the "real" Darkseid and the artist's own ideas of Darkseid and the world he's being put into. This story will then become another paragraph on Darkseid's Wikipedia page, therefore he is now a part of the "real" Darkseid. Or, the story is so shit nobody reads it and it doesn't get a Wikipedia paragraph, and thus does not become part of Darkseid.

Or in short; Darkseid IS.

If the New Gods are gods what are they gods of? Like Orion is god of war and Scott is god of escape.
What about Barda, Granny, Desaad, and the rest?

>>92601166
But they dont control the avatars, how is that the case id theres only one apokalips

>>92601291
Granny is the patron goddess of transsexuals galaxy wide.

>>92601291
They aren't gods "of" anything, except perhaps the Source itself.
Which isn't to say they are in command of the Source so much as they are "of" the Source and stem from it stronger then any other being in the Multiverse.

The deities of the different theologies are more like myths and ideas and stories given form, but the New Gods are not precisely that.

>>92601344
Orion is the God of war. It's like a big part of his character. Same with Mister Miracle. They totally are gods of stuff.

>>92601291
Desaad is torture, obviously, and Darkseid is the god of tyranny, but there's not really an explicit attribution like there is in real mythologies.

>>92601330
Writers "channel" the gods through the avatars.

In a literal sense, writers take their knowledge of the gods (which are the gods themselves) and write their interpretations of them on the pages.

Apokalips is also a concept in much the same way. When a character "goes" to Apokolips, they're merely touching the concept of Apokolips.

Again, this is all extremely meta.

The more traditional, in-universe explanation is just that gods are higher beings but exist within the universe. So the Zeus Wonder Woman talks to is THE Zeus, but since a god is like a sixth dimensional being or something, it can only communicate with the third dimension through an avatar that looks like a guy with a beard.