It's a definite 3 out of 5 or 6/10 average and you can't

>>92457304
>I'm going to post this for the nth time.
>Something is going to change this time.
Good luck OP.

>>92457333
We're one episode away from the end. Don't you think it's fair to evaluate its flaws by now

>>92457304
I dispute this. It's more like a 7 or 8/10.

>>92457350
Yeah for the 305th time this week.

>>92457304
> It's pretty startling how this show lost its way.
How it all went so wrong? I know WHAT, but how? SBT was amazing. Did working for Sony really break Genndy so much?

Nice opinion fagtron I can take tonal shifts so I think it's 9/10

>>92457304
Wrong

>>92457304
Wtf I fucking HATE samurai jack now

Oh look another Samurai Jack complaining thread

>>92457304
It's a definite 9 out of 10 or 9/10 average and you can't dispute this. It's pretty startling how this show kept its way.

>another Jack hate thread
Why not throw in cringy video rants while we're at it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn90RW99loI

>>92457304
Samurai Jack isnt Guts
Stop trying to make him Guts
Yeah episode 3 was kino as fuck but the whole season cant be that. It wouldnt be Samurai Jack. The show actually went back to being Samurai Jack, but less episodic and with the objective to end the series.
Let Jack be happy or die trying.

How many times will you make this thread?

I just think they shouldn't have marketed it as grittier or more adult in theme, which is what we were led to believe via the trailers

http://www.strawpoll.me/12982841/r

Kek dat vocal minority.

>>92458588
>MisAnthro Pony

laughing_ashi.jpg.

>>92458590
exactly.
The beginning was to show how deep in depression Jack has gotten after losing his purpose and slowly rebuilding the drive he needs to face Aku again. Having him stuck in sudoku mode is fucking pointless.
That being said this season still feels like it would've done better pacing wise as a full 13 episodes, but there's really not much you can do about that

>>92458588
Holy shit this video

A U T I S M

>>92457350
why not just wait until the last episode? you know someone's gonna do it anyway

>>92458588
>ponyfag
Embarrassing

>>92457350
Yeah. That's all we've been fucking doing. Don't you have anything better to do or do you just need to lurk moar? Have a look at the catalogue, there's usually AT LEAST 5 different samurai jack threads open.

>>92458614
I'm not so much on the GRR WHERE'S THE GRIT train so much as it just doesn't have that feel of the original series. And I know it's partially because we need to barrel to an ending here, but everything feels so rushed. Like Genndy didn't get the memo they'd be three episodes short until they finished the third one, so suddenly everything's lurching forward with none of those big ambient moments onward minus Jackie's Magical Boatride. I also feel like a lot of the action seems a bit stiff and 'loose' for lack of a better word compared the original as well.
I also absolutely fucking loathe Ashi but that's a rant that just ends up sounding like (you) bait so I'll keep it to myself.

>>92458588
He is right though

Regardless of your opinion of the Ashii heavy focus from the second half onwards, you gotta admit Episodes 1-3 are some of the best pieces of animation to air in the last few years.

>>92459340
Oh no the first three are unironically damn good.

Which just makes the ball drop onward even more painful and baffling.

>>92459340
Of course, it involved killing Ashis after all.

>>92459340
Everyone agrees the first three episodes or so were extremely well done, especially pacing wise. The chase scene that was painfully slow was the purpose, was to cause tension. Everything else afterwards was rushed and it shows, nothing was actually there to develop and if anything did develop, which was few, could have been done better if more time was dedicated to it instead of other things. For example the Ravers/dance scene went on for a little too long wasting precious time that they already don't have.

>>92457304
>3/5 or 6/10
So you're telling me that this show matches the quality of other slightly high average shows like Camp Lazlo, 6Teen, Modern Simpsons, and SAO? You, OP just ordered bullshit.
Seriously, Samurai Jack is beyond the 6/10 league. It's more of an 8-9/10, because it's pretty damn good.

>>92457304
Id give it a 8.5/10

Some people think Ashi is the problem but honestly I saw nothing majorly wrong with the plot, which was pretty great

All complaints or most of them would have been fixed with another 10 episodes
This season simply needed to be longer

>>92457304
>post yfw OPs pic is in the last ep

>>92457304
I would give it a way better score, like 4/5
I think the only real problem is dramatic tone vs Aku being the his usual silly self. Also There was no need of JackXAshi already, without a timeskip of sort

>>92459340
True.

Everything after has been damn great as well, though.

>>92459442
>wasting precious time that they already don't have.
That's like 90% of the problem, really
The original show wasted tons of time all the time but was episodic and never needed to actually get anywhere so it was okay
But now people actually want it to go somewhere because it's billed as the true ending

>>92457304
Fuck off, it's great

But if you contrarians have to settle for 6/10, that says something

>>92457304
i dont like how a love interest was introduced this fucking late.
it almost seems like its something gendy discovered he wanted in the show years after it got canceled.
and then by some miracle the show comes back for a final season, he goes through with it and it kinda ruins it.

Threadly reminder that people didn't start talking about how bad Season 5 was after Ashi became a main character, they started showing up after Episode 3 because /co/ liked it too much. If you have actually been swayed by this campaign then you are a worm. And there ARE those among you who have been swayed. You can lie to us, but you cannot lie to yourself.

>>92457304
>You can't dispute this because I said so

Fuck off

Lets see what people think
http://www.strawpoll.me/12985837/

>>92457304

Tumblr shills pushing this new narrative and hard. Go back to your cartoons about internet memes and talking to transexual unicorns.

>>92457304
I'm sitting at an 8.5 or 9

>>92460390
>they showed up a single episode before the actual point it became shit
that makes a world of difference

(You)

Episodes 1-3 are overrated and 2/3 are just stretched out versions of Jack vs. the Ultrabots, and the pacing has been fine aside from maybe 5 and 7. People praise episode 2 for being slow as fuck and credit that as good pacing, then bitch about how later episodes are either rushed or too slow, whichever is convenient for them.

>>92460556
>before the actual point it became shit
That never happened though.

>>92459358
Really pacing problems didn't show up until ep 7. Even then. 7-9 more dipped into the B- range at the lowest. 1-6 are fantastic. 1-3 insanely good.

>>92460601
8 and 9 are the best episodes since 2, though.

>>92460601
8 and 9 are paced fine within themselves, it's just that at that point people wanted to be resolving things. That's especially true for 8 since it was basically filler aside from developing Jack and Ashi's relationship.

>>92457304
Samurai Jack season 5 is a 3.5/10 on average at this point in time.
In case anyone thinks this is shitposting, I'm just copying my ratings from >>92452252
E1 7/10
E2 6/10
E3 5/10
E4 2/10
E5 4/10
E6 1/10
E7 3/10
E8 0/10
E9 ?/10
(I can't rate the first half of a two-parter by itself.)

>>92457304
>my opinion is fact
>>>/tumblr/
Fuck off underage.

>>92458588
>that like/dislike ratio

lol

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>>92460677
>E8 0/10
>/co/mblr is still that mad
Pottery

>>92457304
What is the name of female Japanese nationalist and dictator?
Fashi.

>>92460725
Jashi is actually the one thing I didn't mind in and of itself. It wasn't enough to get the ep even 1 point.

>>92460725
E8 is probably one of the episodes most like the original series, and most people have very selective memories of the series. 95% of the hate for it comes from shipping.

>>92460752
What kind of sword attack does Jacks waifu prefer to use?
Slashi

>>92460725
>heaven forbid people not want pointless shipping
gettin' real sick of the ADF

>>92460652
>>92460673
No, I agree. Honestly I didn't have too many problems with 7-9 Either. 8 threw me for a loop but I appreciate how they played it off in 9. I'm excited for the finale. honestly 7 out of all of them is the one that could have done with an extra episode dedicated to it. Maybe 9 too, just to have some more relationship moments. Looking back, 8 works well as it's own isolated piece between episodes.

>>92460725
Even tumblr's gotten over it.

/co/ is the only place still assblasted about it.

>>92459340
I thought the pacing in E1 was shit, but it had some of the best visuals this season, particularly the river of screaming corpses. Holy shit.

I'm in the minority, but I prefer e3 to 2.

>>92460677
I know you're probably trolling but what honestly meets your standards? What could possibly be at least an 8/10 for you? I can't imagine the original Jack would go beyond a 6 or 7/10 according to your scale. What the hell is your 10/10?

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>>92460677
>An episode with Zoidberg got 0/10

Imagine if we lived in a world where media is held by such autistic standards

>>92460814
>God forbid people choose to not let something "pointless" ruin a show for them

Evil Ashii was the end game. The show moved steadily toward that and hinted it. The romance was necessary. The show didn't meander around at all. Building a relationship takes time, don't you guys know that?

>>92460964
>make it into The Ashi Show
>'this is unnecessary'
>wow why is 85% of the content enough to ruin it for you

>Ten episodes stay at the pacing/quality of eps 1-3 and end with Jack getting the sword back
>Quality/hype stay up and Genndy gets the final battle greenlit as a movie like he wanted

Find a flaw.

Sorry OP, but I really disagree.

You have a show that starts out by shaping the depths of depression and disillusionment Jack faces after 50 ageless years of failing his purpose. He's gone native; dishevelled and disregarding many aspects of his teachings in favour of pure survival in the world he's now stuck in.

He's given a glimpse of hope, a few moments of love-struck happiness in a lifetime of constant toil and effort. He makes peace with his inner turmoil and finds his way back to the honourable, principled individual who was sent to the future in the first place.

Only to discover that the subject of his desires is yet another aspect of Aku. One that he has to kill.

This is a pretty compelling story arch.

>>92461079
I agree with the arc being compelling. But I think the actual execution has been lacking after episode 6.

I felt episodes 1-6 were pretty much golden (with a few moments here and there I didn't care for. Like the "Samurai Drop" song). Episodes 7+ have felt very odd in their execution to me. Not inherently bad, but have felt off.

I also wasn't a fan of how the Guardian was handled. If he doesn't show up in the last episode, I'll be sorely disappointed with how that plot element wasn't really resolved.

>>92461103
The Guardian plot element has already been resolved: Aku destroyed his time portal and that's that, the broken glasses already tell us he lost the fight and it doesn't matter if he's still alive or not since his purpose is over.

>>92457304
Close, I'd say it's a 7/10. A few aspects make it worthwhile, but it's very hit and miss with a weak middle.

>>92460390
I didn't fall for the first three episodes' hype. It was 8/10 at best, just tacticool explosions and action fanservice to draw new viewers unfamiliar with the series in. However, I will say it didn't drop ball that hard, just switched back to the previous seasons in tone.

Jack with his sword in OP's pic is incredibly misleading, so Genndy can suck a fat one for that.

>>92461183
>so Genndy can suck a fat one for that.

I wouldn't say that yet. Who knows how long Jack will be in captivity with Aku until he gets free?

Maybe Ashi will ask him to keep it.

>>92457304
It's great with occasional tonal / pacing hiccups that were already an issue in the original show.

>>92457304
Did you seriously needed an entire post for your butthurt?
it's 5/5
9/10
let me guess
>muh time guardian
>muh king jack
>muh pacing
>ashi is shit
>muh headcannon didn't came true
KYS

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>TFW people would have a higher opinion of S5 if the first 3 episodes were bad

They were too kino for their own good. Nothing could have lived up to them.

>>92457304
8 out of 10 is more accurate.

Literally the only problem is that it could have done with one or two more episodes to space things out a bit. It's still an excellent series in terms of animation, composition, sound design, use of colour, humour, etc.

>>92461041
>Jack is not on screen
>"Where's Jack?"
>Ashi Show

kek

And it's not pointless if it makes up 85% of the show, is t? :^)

>>92461575
>using the poochie argument for the titular character
>against fucking ashi of all things
oh i'm laffin

>>92461614
come to think about it, I don't think anyone in the entire show has asked "where's Ashi?"

>>92457304

You people are affected by nostalgia. The current season isn't worse or better than the previous four.

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>>92457333
That is the definition of insanity: doing same thing over and over again, expecting different results

>>92461614
Isn't Ashi the titular character of "The Ashi Show?"

Ah, right, I shouldn't be expected to hold autists accountable for things they say 30 seconds ago

>>92461637
That'd be a bit difficult considering...

Shit has she even mentioned her name to Jack, all I remember is her hot mom screaming it.

>>92461741
>taking things this literally
>it's the other guy that's the autist
phew

>>92460875
I'm not sure if I've ever given a 10/10 to an episode of ANY show, but the following original Samurai Jack eps are definite 9s at the very least:
Jack and the Zombies
Jack and the Scarab
Jack and the Traveling Creatures
Jack and the Haunted House
(It's funny how they're all from season 3, yet I've always thought of season 4 as the strongest season. Gonna have to re-evaluate that...)

>>92457304
It's not startling at all, it's just disappointing. The first three episodes were had all the same Jack charm, but none of the mediocre stuff from the original series. We had a Sammy Davis robot in the first episode, and we all loved that classic Jack energy he reminded us of. We also got the strong art direction we always loved, and lastly the promise of a tighter narrative.

Episode four, which I still generally liked, told me they had expended most of their energy already. What should have been a ton of memorable set pieces inside the monster ended up being rather dull in comparison to the one outside the monster at the start of the episode. You see sparks of creativity here and there, but 5-8 mostly just reminded me of the mediocre episodes of Jack, only difference is that they were all part of one ongoing story now.

>>92461295
>losing your beard just to grow it back again

>>92461774
>backpeddling this hard
>I-I was only joking

wew

>>92460547
this
i'd say a solid 8/10. loses one point from the writing and one point from the animation
other than that it's pretty great

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This sure is going to be an interesting place to be come Saturday night/Sunday morning.

How long do you think it will take for the disappointment to truly sink in? For the first couple of days after Gravity Falls finale, you had people in serious levels of denial, some were posting MUH FEELS over it being finished or the pretentious picture book credits sequence. After a few days when the Hirsch drones fled back to tumblr and reddit, realization started to sink in that the whole thing was grossly underwhelming, now its almost universally regarded here as one of the worst finales to a great series ever concocted.

>>92461172
Didn't say it wasn't resolved; said it wasn't "really" resolved.

The original episode showed the Guardian stating that Jack couldn't use the portal yet, depicting a bearded Jack inside the portal.

Cut to the present, the portal is destroyed.

Now everyone who is okay with this parrots "The future isn't set in stone", which is a rationalization for bad writing. An author who deliberately and consciously establishes a plot element as being relevant to the ultimate conclusion of the story and then handwaves it away at the last second because "the future isn't set in stone" is not committing to the story they originally wrote.

>>92460865
Looking back, I find it funny that people complained about how the series needed to start wrapping up at episode 7 or so and that episode 8 wasted time, but consider episode 2 part of the sacred cow trilogy. I say that because what exactly did episode 2 add? You could sum it up as "Assassins attack Jack, he kills one but is wounded."

I really think the pacing complaint has largely just become a way to say they don't like it. If the later episodes speed up, the pacing is too fast, but if they slow down, they're going too slow and need to speed up. But it's ok for the first three episodes to have slow pacing.

>>92461959
>When fans of a series go somewhere else, you see more hate towards it

My almonds are activated

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>>92457304
WE'VE SEEN THIS THREAD LIKE 20 FUCKING TIMES ALREADY.

>>92462187
There was no original story and they never planned to reach any conclusion, the SJ series is full of these open ends that weren't supposed to be expanded upon and they only made the glasses scene because they knew people would throw a shitfit if they completely ignored the guardian.
It's just a nod saying "yeah we didn't forget about the guardian but his plot element doesn't fit what we have in mind for S5 so we just killed him off".

>>92461919
Let me take this slowly so it sinks in.
Focusing on the titular character: Good!
Focusing on a new character that adds little but we deeply, deeply pretend she does: Bad!
The fact she does this BY focusing on the main herself doesn't make it less awful or make it any less focused on her.

>>92461879
>Episode four, which I still generally liked, told me they had expended most of their energy already. What should have been a ton of memorable set pieces inside the monster ended up being rather dull in comparison to the one outside the monster at the start of the episode.
I don't really see how it was any more dull than E1-3

>>92462659
Only if we pretend Ashi is not a titular character of season 5, which is pretty much what /co/mblr is doing,
>II'll pretend ashi is not a main character and then claim the series is focusing too much on an irrelevant character because I say so.

>>92462594
Nothing you said actually counters the point I made.

>There was no original story and they never planned to reach any conclusion,

If the authors never planned to reach a conclusion, they should not have so clearly and unequivocally established a plot element that would be relevant to the conclusion of the story. "They didn't plan on the show ever ending" is just another rationalization of bad writing. If an author doesn't have a conclusion, they should not make one up and then ignore it later when it turns out "Oops, we *do* get to make a conclusion!"

Ultimately, this means they were either bad writers then, writing a conclusion they never meant to fulfill, or they're bad writers now, ignoring clear and present plot elements because they don't want to deal with it.

Either way, it's bad writing.

>>92457304
>Dark gritty opening episodes bring in newfag audience who think Samurai Jack is supposed to be Berserk
>Further episodes lift Jack out of his funk and the style returns to the way the show has always been
>Newfags are butt-blasted that Samurai Jack is in fact a Genndy cartoon
>Newfags baw on /co/ every single day hoping if they wail loud enough they'll somehow make the show bad

>>92462594
Adding on to >>92462889

They didn't "ignore" the Guardian element, but they certainly didn't resolve the plot in any meaningful or satisfying way; they handwaved it away with "the future isn't set in stone", which is an authorial cop-out.

If an author writes a series of 5 books, and establishes a plot element relevant to the ultimate conclusion in book 3, and then in book 5 just handwaves it away with "The future is never set in stone!", they're a bad author; they did not commit to the story they originally wrote, and it is rationalized away with "well it's my story I get to write what I want."

Of course they get to write whatever they want; they don't have to write anything they don't want to. But the readers are absolutely within their right to criticize bad writing when they see it. And handwaving away such a clear and established plot element is bad writing.

>>92459251
I want to hear it, anon. I, too, am rather miffed about her character arc and the impact she seems to have had on pacing.

>>92462889
They didn't ignore it, they already showed very clearly that the guardian was defeated and the time portal has been destroyed.
The only reason why the whole Guardian episode exists is because it was fun and got the noggin' joggin', this is not the only time in the series where a plot point was left open or some interesting unexplained thing happened. It's just a basic storytelling device that builds up a "lore" around the work without necessarily being part of some bigger master plan.

Stop being an autist and realize that your ebin guardian fight fan service wouldn't be good entertainment, there's far dumber stuff you could be complaining about like Aku never using the time magic again for no reason and the answer will always be the same: It doesn't make a compelling experience.

>>92462943

This. I appreciated the darker start but I'm more than happy to see the more traditional SamJack vibe return halfway through the season.

I really don't get what's wrong with people. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's nowhere near as 'average' or bad as folks are making it. Personally I would've preferred shit be more spread out with a longer season, but we've got ten so whatever

>>92463143
>They didn't ignore it, they already showed very clearly that the guardian was defeated and the time portal has been destroyed.

See
>>92463017
Yes, they didn't ignore it. They just handwaved it away. Otherwise, please justify how the Guardian portal has been destroyed without using the words "the future isn't set in stone" or "they never thought they'd get to end the show", because both of those rationalizations aren't actual arguments for good writing.

Go ahead. I'll wait.

>>92463256
It wouldn't make for a good story, it wouldn't be good writing.

Sure it adds some inconsistency but that's a small price to pay for making the S5 story better, autistic consistency was never Genndy's style and it's not good storytelling in any kind of medium.

>>92462889

The Guardian isn't absolute, obviously, which makes his death actually all the more shocking and bleak. It reinforces the threat of Aku, because honestly, even with the series being what it is, I still didn't come away from the original run thinking Aku was intimidating or 'evil'.

I mean sure, he's evil, but it was more in a petty, humorous kind of deal. With how dark the new season began and the lack of much Aku, we've been given glimpses into how fucked up the embodiment of all things evil really is.

The Guardian, despite being a roadblock for Jack, was still a ray of hope. He showed the audience that there was still time for Jack to accomplish his goal, even if it took (possibly) years. Instead we find out the Guardian, who's no slouch, fucking got murdered and now the future is uncertain.

>>92461893
>getting back your sword and gi just to lose them again

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>>92463308
>It wouldn't make for a good story, it wouldn't be good writing.
>consistent storytelling is not good writing

Oh dear. I've just had a dumbpiphany. I've been wasting my time.

>>92463363
Please tell me how the Guardian being alive would have improved the story.

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>>92457304
>Lost it's way
>Not FORGOTTEN IT'S PURPOSE!

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What do you think Ashi's reaction was to Aku while he was hamming it up and howling outdated information at Jack which he could've seen was untrue if he'd taken too seconds to look? I'm guessing some sort of low key

>20 years of my life gone for THIS asshole?

reaction.

>>92463328
See, this is the problem with this position is NOBODY has argued that the Guardian being dead is the bad part. At least not me. The Guardian being dead is perfectly fine.

The issue is how it was not actually shown. And how the time portal he guarded is also destroyed with no explanation. The Guardian episode showed bearded Jack through the portal, and the Guardian said he could not use it yet, implying he would use it later.

If the Guardian isn't absolute, they needed to show us why, because a considerable portion of the fanbase was invested in those plot elements. But instead they just handwave it away. It's bad writing.

>>92463416
>arguably the coolest character in the series, as well as canonically the strongest, who is beloved by the fanbase
>vs some mary sue love interest that no one likes
gee I dunno, you tell me?

>>92463416
>write a series of 5 books
>in chapter 3, establish a plot element that is clearly relevant to the conclusion
>in book 5, at the conclusion, have that plot element be relevant, as written in book 3

I have some SparkNotes from Lit 101 if you need any more pointers.

>>92457304
I'll admit it has some serious pacing problems but other than that the show is basically just a continuation of the original run with some more continuity behind each episode and that's exactly what I wanted from this show.

>>92463328
You'd have a point if the Guardian had been at all relevant to the plot of S5 (a mention of the possible existence of his portal, any effort made to actually find him, some reference at all to the "good" future and the consequences of its destruction), but he's rendered utterly meaningless even in death. The show does nothing at all to explore what his defeat means. The entire plot point is erased without any fanfare or gravity, and the show does next-to-nothing to appreciate it.

I'm about to start episode 6 but it has gotten so bad from episode 4 onwards - is there even any point to continue?

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>>92463502
This anon gets it.

>>92463527
No, Episode 4 was garbage and so is every episode since. Episodes 1-3 were the crowning achievement of animation and the greatest things ever created in any form of media, so to go to being even worse than the entirety of Korra is beyond shit.

>>92463436

Aku literally states an episode or two earlier that he had destroyed all of the time portals. Now, I didn't expect them to revisit the Guardian at all, but I assumed that also meant HIS time portal.

There's ten episodes. It would've been nice to see some flashbacks pertaining to certain folks, but it's not necessary. Its also not necessary for the sake of building drama or adding weight/gravity to the grave situation Jack winds up in. It's just fluff that, sure, it'd be cool to see, doesn't really serve a narrative purpose.

Hell, -not- seeing it makes it all the more disturbing and reinforces just how powerful Aku is. He was strong enough to kill a man who beat the living shit out of Jack.

And I'm not necessarily using this as an excuse, but there's ten episodes, and Genndy or the writers or whomever need to decide what's important shit to fill into 22 minutes of running time.

I'm not saying it was executed perfectly, but I really feel like people are blowing this shit way out of proportion.

>>92463467
You probably didn't realize it but they didn't have a conclusion back when they made the guardian episode.
No one, literally NO ONE cares about the guardian other than diehard fans, he would be extremely out of place in this season and it would require a very major rewrite to make him fit in.

The whole point of the season is that all time portals are gone and Jack must cope with this fact, he has been stuck in the future for 50 years because Aku
DESTROYED
ALL
TIME
PORTALS
ALL OF THEM
INCLUDING THE GUARDIAN'S
If the Guardian didn't fail then there would still be a time portal, making the whole plot of the season completely pointless.

Guardianfags are fucking retarded holy shit.

>The show got bad when it started acting like past seasons instead of the first 3 episodes

Really makes you think

>>92461959

Try visiting /mlp/ and asking them about S6 and S7. The show should have gotten a full S3 and ended on Best Pony becoming a Princest.

>>92463637
>started acting like past seasons
It never was like this

>>92457304
So how do you call it when everything you have sex with is, in some way, Aku?

>>92463602
Actually makes me wonder; why don't people hate Episode 2? It's the one that said that Aku destroyed ALL of the time portals. That makes it the one that established that the Guardian portal's prophecy wasn't gonna happen. Why does everyone blame episode 9 and not it?

>>92463602
>You probably didn't realize it but they didn't have a conclusion back when they made the guardian episode.

You've circled back to the same "they didn't know they'd eventually have to write a conclusion" rationalization which I've already addressed. This rationalization always leads to the "future isn't set in stone" rationalization which I've also addressed.

If an author clearly and deliberately writes a plot element that is relevant to the conclusion of the story, and then handwaves it away later, that is bad writing. Any rationalization you have for that does not change this simple fact. You'll continue to parrot these rationalizations, thinking you're doing the show a favor by defending it. But ultimately you're just saying that your taste in writing is shit.

>>92463687

Because guardianfags are fucking retarded

>>92463687
>Actually makes me wonder; why don't people hate Episode 2? It's the one that said that Aku destroyed ALL of the time portals

Because Aku has been wrong before, and him stating "I destroyed all the time portals, totes bro!" without actually showing him doing it is, in no way, establishing it as a fact?

>>92463696
Bad writing would be keeping a stupid plot element and character for the sake of consistency, you still didn't explain how a story with the Guardian would be better than what we got.

>inb4 muh Ashi ruined everything
I don't like her either but that doesn't mean you need to bring back some stupid character that only appeared in one episode.

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>show does well
>can get another full season
would you a season 4.5, 5.5 or no extra, /co/?

also, how do teen-adult toons make bank?

>>92463751
>Bad writing would be keeping a stupid plot element and character for the sake of consistency

Oh god, another dumbpiphany. It hurts.
>>92463751
>you still didn't explain how a story with the Guardian would be better than what we got.
See >>92463467

>>inb4 muh Ashi ruined everything
Please cite a single line where I said, let alone implied, that this was an opinion of mine. Go ahead, I'll wait. Spoilers:You can't, because I didn't. You just don't know how to argue without resorting to strawman fallacies.

>>92463738
But Aku didn't say "I think I destroyed them all", he said "I destroyed them all." And even if he didn't, who's to say that the Guardian's portal was one of them regardless?

The fact of the matter is that this was set up in Episode 2. If you take someone's word as "Well they are clearly wrong" then that's your fault, not theirs.

>>92463856
>But Aku didn't say "I think I destroyed them all", he said "I destroyed them all."

Wow. I uh. Well, You're retarded. See, I didn't say "I think you're retarded". I said "You're retarded." That makes it a fact, right?

>The fact of the matter is that this was set up in Episode 2. If you take someone's word as "Well they are clearly wrong" then that's your fault, not theirs.

Aku being wrong has been a plot point before, in this very season, no less. Aku didn't even know Jack had lost his sword. Aku had thought, for decades, Jack was still parading around with his sword, and hid out in his dark tower because of it.

>>92463821
You're like a student that just learned the most basic entry-level shit about storytelling and now thinks he's some authority in the matter.

Meanwhile in reality there was just no way to bring back the Guardian without making the story suffer heavily and they chose the least bad option instead which is acknowledging that the Guardian did exist but he failed.
You're letting your personal bias cloud your judgement and you fail to realize that the Guardian simply wouldn't make for a compelling character.

>>92464029
>>92463821
And I bet you think that Jack going back to the past would be a good choice too, I'm 99% sure he won't, and that will be a better choice for the story for several reasons.

>>92464029
>Meanwhile in reality there was just no way to bring back the Guardian without making the story suffer heavily and they chose the least bad option instead

Ironic that you would talk about being an authority on storytelling while spouting this nonsense.

>You're letting your personal bias cloud your judgement and you fail to realize that the Guardian simply wouldn't make for a compelling character.

Further irony. The Guardian episode was very compelling. You continue to state it was "stupid" and other nonsense as if that weren't your own personal biases clouding your judgement. But none of that changes the objective assessment that the authors established the Guardian portal as relevant to the conclusion of the story and then handwaved it away at the end. That much is not an opinion; that is observable, objective fact. And that it is evidence of bad writing.

>>92464010
You're missing the point. Aku was saying that with confidence, that he knew he destroyed them all, instead of saying that he thought he did but wasn't entirely sure. There's a difference. And 50 years is a long time to make sure. And again, even if he missed a few, that doesn't mean the Guardian's was one of them.

Also Aku never claimed to know much about what Jack was doing in that time. Just that he was going around. He pretty much said his plan was just to leave Jack alone and spend his time destroying time portals and then waiting for him to die of old age.

Regardless, fact remains that you're the one assuming that he's wrong, even though you aren't really given any reason to believe that he was wrong. If he was, he was, but you couldn't say that he was wrong just because it's convenient for you.

>>92464073
>>92464173
>You're missing the point. Aku was saying that with confidence, that he knew he destroyed them all, instead of saying that he thought he did but wasn't entirely sure. There's a difference. And 50 years is a long time to make sure. And again, even if he missed a few, that doesn't mean the Guardian's was one of them.

No, you've missed the point. A crucial plot point of this season is that Aku *isn't* all-knowing. If you can't admit that that can invite doubt into his statement that he destroyed all the time portals, then we have nothing further to discuss.

>Regardless, fact remains that you're the one assuming that he's wrong, even though you aren't really given any reason to believe that he was wrong.

Except for the fact that we *are* given reason to believe he can be wrong. See the previous point: a crucial plot point this season is that Aku can be ignorant and wrong even when he thinks he's so mighty and all-knowing. Again, if you don't think that can invite doubt into Aku's certainty that he destroyed all of the time portals, then we have nothing further to discuss.

>>92464103
Yes, it's a minor inconsistency but I wouldn't call it bad writing since they never had the intention of going back to it to begin with, killing off the Guardian was good writing and doesn't even count as a plot hole or anything even if it's "handwaving away" something they established before.

The only bad writing was establishing a minor one-off character as someone important but luckily they addressed that in an elegant way and now only guardian fanboys complain about it.

>>92464277
>Yes, it's a minor inconsistency but I wouldn't call it bad writing since they never had the intention of going back to it to begin with

This is still rationalizing the poor writing decision to deliberately write a plot element that is relevant to the conclusion of the story when they did not intend to follow through on it. That is the textbook definition of bad writing.

>killing off the Guardian was good writing and doesn't even count as a plot hole or anything even if it's "handwaving away" something they established before.

It's absolutely a plot hole, because the Guardian episode showed bearded Jack inside the now-destroyed portal, which cannot come to fruition now. "The future isn't set in stone" is the only defense for this, and it is another rationalization for bad writing.

>The only bad writing was establishing a minor one-off character as someone important but luckily they addressed that in an elegant way and now only guardian fanboys complain about it.

The bad writing is when they chose to create a plot element that was unequivocally relevant to the conclusion of the story and then decided to handwave it away because they didn't feel like using it anymore. Again, textbook bad writing. You might not have liked the Guardian, but if you don't think this is poor authorship, you're just in denial because you can't stand watchers criticizing the show's shortcomings.

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>guardianfags

>>92464373
I already said that establishing the Guardian as someone important was bad writing and but killing him off was good writing so you don't need to repeat that.

You still didn't explain how a story with the Guardian would be better, it simply wouldn't and the writers did well in getting rid of him.

>>92464270
>No, you've missed the point. A crucial plot point of this season is that Aku *isn't* all-knowing. If you can't admit that that can invite doubt into his statement that he destroyed all the time portals, then we have nothing further to discuss.
Sounds like you're the one who can't admit that maybe he wasn't wrong? That he was proven right about the Guardian's portal retroactively means he was right about that one at least, and that's really the only one that matters here.

You're the one who decided he MUST be wrong. Let's say he was wrong, ok then fine, he was wrong. But he wasn't. You made the decision that he was wrong, and now that he wasn't you don't want to deal with it.

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>>92464405
>defending the inelegant removal of an established plot element

I love the show, but call a spade a spade. The show has flaws, and this is one of them.

>>92464461
>Sounds like you're the one who can't admit that maybe he wasn't wrong?

Irony!

>That he was proven right about the Guardian's portal retroactively means he was right about that one at least, and that's really the only one that matters here.

You've, again, missed the point. The portal being destroyed, in and of itself, is the proof of bad writing, because it shows that an established plot element was written out of the show off-screen with no explanation.

>You're the one who decided he MUST be wrong

You've completely misunderstood and misrepresented my argument. You genuinely don't seem to understand the point is that Aku has been shown, on multiple occasions, to have the CAPACITY(!!!!!!!!!!!) to be wrong. This is not a statement that he HAS(!!!!!!!!!!!) to be wrong, but that he CAN(!!!!!!!!!) be wrong.

Please understand this time. If you don't, then I give up because there is no helping you.

>>92464492
S5 is practically a reboot in the sense that none of the old characters are important to the plot other than the recurring ones like Jack and Aku, the Guardian being important wouldn't make sense and being consistent just for the sake of consistency IS bad writing.

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>>92464492
>caring s much about literally Original the Character

>>92464570
>the Guardian being important wouldn't make sense and being consistent just for the sake of consistency IS bad writing.

I wish I could understand you, Anon. I truly wish I could, but I cannot. This opinion is the closest I've ever come to an objectively shit opinion, and it's very strange to me.

Somehow you have convinced yourself that a consistent narrative is bad and that handwaving away established, crucial plot elements is good.

I won't be able to convince you that this position is ass-backwards and that you're just vehemently defending your precious show, but please know that I truly wish you could understand a less retarded perspective.

>>92464492
>The show has flaws and this is one of them
Good thing that they removed it from the story, now the show has no flaws

>>92464566
This is not about being "technically correct", the season keeps telling the viewer that all portals are gone and Jack having to cope with that is at the core of the story, suddenly showing that one time portal that Jack knows about actually still exists would be retarded and undermines the whole point of the season.
You have horrible taste and lack the most basic knowledge of storytelling, Jack might still go back to the past in some other way but not with a typical time portal.

>>92464629
You still didn't tell me how the story would be improved with the Guardian.
It simply wouldn't, you can cry about waving hands and inconsistency all you want but they really did choose the least bad choice.

>>92464566
You were wrong, because the portal was destroyed. Or maybe it actually isn't and will be rejuvenated or something in the finale so he can go back. But as of now, it's gone.

I'm not arguing about everything being bad writing, I'm arguing that it was something that was established back in Episode 2. Just because Aku has been shown that he can be wrong doesn't mean he always is. You seem to ASSUME that he was wrong, that he HAD to be wrong. I could easily turn that around and say that his statement there invited serious doubt as to whether or not that portal was still around. But no, he HAD to be wrong apparently, because by your logic, if he was wrong before, he must always be wrong.

But this is clearly all bouncing off of your skull, and I'm bored with you.

>>92463637
The past seasons had better fights scenes and infinitely better pacing.

http://poal.me/6wc48d

>>92462840
A magical talking banana pepper could be the linchpin to the finale, that doesn't make the pepper suddenly not stupid and ill-fitting.
It'd probably have a better VA than Ashi though

>>92465020
>allowing multiple answers
why

>>92465020
>>92465085
>add a new answer
fify

>>92463027
The short of it is I'd have preferred if Jack got to whatever state he's in at episode 10 by his own will and strength of character rather than some thot that conveniently didn't break her neck on the fall down.
See: Confronting his dark side... which is kindof moot because it's basically just Mad Jack all over again but not literal and the pacing of the scene is entirely shat on by Ashi's shenanigans that don't really do much besides fellate her strength and something something poetry people keep screaming about whenever it's brought up.
Idunno.
I also fucking hate her profile chimpface and Tara Strong as a VA but that's the (you)bait part.

>>92465085
To pretend that these threads have more than 4 active posters.

>>92465355
Polls work fine and accurately if you only allow one answerhttp://www.strawpoll.me/12982841/

>>92457304
It only feels that way because the previous seasons were better. It's still good, not just above average. Like South Park, it seems like SJ is better suited to be episodic.

>>92465537
>178 votes
nice proxy spam

>>92457304
Lemme try and spice up SJ Complaint thread #583 by asking a simple question.
You think Genndy's gonna actually take him back to the past, or will he just kill Aku and live with waifu?

>>92465585
Aku will die, there will be some fortune cookie nonsense about not dwelling in the past and Jack will die soon after.

>>92465562
If it was proxy spam, it would have had an uneven increase of either of the choices, but it has kept steady at around a 3:1 ratio since it's inception.
i also shared it in a shit ton of threads that were not about Ashi

>>92457304

Here's what actually happened, OP. I know this is bait but for the sake of others, this is what went down.

Jack is a great series, and while its plot is relatively straightforward and predictable, the art direction has always been the power behind it.

Once it got canned it had over a decade to age and every nostalgia fuck remembered only THE VERY BEST PARTS OF IT and hailed it as a true masterpiece.

Which it is, and is not. It's not a masterpiece for writing (in terms of long term plot), it's beloved for its animations, bizarre landscapes, scenarios, and well made one-off episodes.

Not much has changed, save 5 the art direction has improved tremendously, the humor aged pretty well, and it formed an actual plot.

You can really separate the people who actually knew what SJ was all about and enjoy it, for those who are clueless and judging the show on metrics it never claimed to be about.

>>92466070

This

>>92466070
>Once it got canned it had over a decade to age and every nostalgia fuck remembered only THE VERY BEST PARTS OF IT and hailed it as a true masterpiece.
No, we just expected it to get better over a span of 13 years, not worse.

>>92466070
>art direction has improved tremendously
think you need your prescription changed, blood

The show would have been better if the daughters of Aku were a villain of the week for the first episode or were chasing him up until the 9th episode with small hints of them sprinkled throughout, eventually leading him to a fight with demon versions of all of them and Aku doing the same episode ending pose, but over Jack's beaten body. And Scaramouche should've been in just one more episode.

>>92457304
This is the most KINO show of the season and you can't dispute this.

>>92457304
I just think everyone went in with some fucking thick-ass nostalgia glasses, and didn't even think of how poorly the first series has aged. The first seasons are not very good by today's standards.

I can't even stomach watching season 1 now even though I loved it when it aired.

>>92468499
Shit taste kys

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>>92468499

>>92468547
>>92468569
hm, I see your taste in insults is as pedestrian as your taste in entertainment

>>92468499
Season 1 is quite excellent. It's season 2 that's aged really poorly, but then it wasn't great to begin with.
>>92468430
I don't think anyone is disputing it meets that ridiculously low standard, anon.

>>92463433
by the way she stuttered, picked up the sword, and the look of horror on her face when he first showed up, she seemed to be feeling a mixture of fear and awe

>>92460725
>these people are still around

anon, are you really trying to make tumblr look less edgy?
because you're doing a better job at it than that episode

>>92463308
>but that's a small price to pay for making the S5 story better,

I fail to see how a rushed, asspulled romance is a better story.

>>92458353

Everything was fine until Genndy had to insert his imaginary girlfriend

You can pinpoint the exact moment the show starts falling off when he abruptly changes his mind about Ashi being irredeemable while she's walking away from the campfire

>>92472922
ashis alright but she would've been a great character had she a slower transition of rebirth than the bath. and also carried over some bad habits like being excessivly violent or stubborn.
maybe if her hair changed a little in the first bath, and to the recent in the shower

>>92465271
Honestly, after all the time portals were destroyed I can see why no on could actually bring him out of his funk.

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>>92473193
well, she did murder an entire army. and that was leaf ashi. i'd say that counts as a bad habit.

for being raised in a cave by a psycho cult, she does seem a little too mentally healthy, though.

>>92473500
out of self-defense though

>does seem a little too mentally healthy, though.
yeah, especially considering how it took on other dark themes this season

From the wiki:
>The Guardian heavily resembles Morpheus from The Matrix franchise.
>In The Matrix, there is a prophecy of a chosen one that later turned out to be a fabrication by the machines.
>Similarly, the fact that the Guardian seemingly perished and his time portal destroyed may indicate that the prophecy of Jack will defeat him and then gain access to the portal was a fabrication.
Also, why is there a Guardian keeping that one portal if there are plenty of others, some of them unguarded?

>>92474068
I'm still thinking the Guardian will show up again. Along with the Scotsman and his "help".

>>92473285
That part I get. But it's the whole seppeku thing that got me.
>Think of the hundreds of thousands of grateful people you've inspired, befriended, and learned from!
>lol nah fuck that killing myself
>also me, a psychopath that's attempted to murder you and really only has a connection because you're the first person I've ever met that wasn't also a total psychopath! also not-dead kids!
>woah shit i can get laid now nevermind fuck off ghostman

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>>92473193
here's what i mean with the hair btw
just, a more gradual change

>>92463661
/mlp/ is a cesspool filled with newfags who discovered the show during the S5-S6 hiatus and see everything with pink glasses on.
Though it makes one wonder just how bad S6 was that even /mlp/ agrees it was underwhelming.

>>92475182
even in the most recent episode it looked a lot different

Did anyone save that Vocaroo of Scaramouche dissing Shaggyfag?

>>92475258
>Shaggyfag
literally who?

>>92475258
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1A925AIePWx

>>92475297
Anon who used a picture of shaggy as his "avatar" while shitposting about how delusional Jashi shippers are.
He got banned for using an avatar, evaded his ban, and got banned again right before episode 8 aired.
>>92475462was made to mock him for having to sit back and watch as Jashi became canon

>>92464629
The Guardian was never a crucial plot element. He was in a single episode and never appeared or was mentioned again.
The future and time in SJ has proven itself to never be set in stone time and time again.
It's fans like you who've given the Guardian more weight than he ever actually has had.

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>>92475596
ah. kinda hope he comes back then for the finale; sounds like quite the ride
anyways thanks

>>92475462
10/10 holy shit

7/10 if the ending it's good
6/10 if the ending it's meh (probably will)
4/10 if the ending it's bad

This season has been pretty and has had decent action scenes, that's it, everything else has been a disappointment.

>>92458588
>Pone
>Undertale

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>>92461448
>muh time guardian
>muh king jack

So do we normally completely forgive shows/comics/other for completely breaking their own canon?

>>92475657
>The Guardian was never a crucial plot element.
The creators literally say "this is the end of the series" with that episode and it's not important?

>He was in a single episode and never appeared or was mentioned again.
You mean like nearly everything in this series until this season?