Is it okay to make cartoons with heavy use of Christian mythology

>>92397810
It's fine as long as you don't mention Jesus. Don't know why, but that's the way it is.

File: fanfic.png (1MB, 850x1200px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 850x1200px

>>92398052
What about saying that certain things in the bible are wrong for the sake of the story? Would it be going too far?

>>92397810
post more.

>>92397810
Depends entirely on what part of Christianity you subscribe to Anon. But if you actually subscribed to any part, you'd already know if it was blasphemous or not.

>>92398082
That's probably a case by case basis and depends on how significant the verse in the bible is.

>>92398082
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4CdI9fA5Lg

what is this cute goat child

File: lerninz incoming.jpg (32KB, 356x438px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 356x438px

Blasphemy is an old word meaning to 'speak evil' about someone, or 'to give a false account' of them in a court of law

in the Bible we see this word being used in the 10 Commandments, relating to men giving a false witness accounts against their neighbours - so it is possible to 'blaspheme' a human being

i mention this so you can understand our modern usage of the term 'blasphemy' is a little reductive, since it is usually only employed in relation to God these days


now saying that, anything which mars the character of God is an act of speaking evil against Him

if someone says, God is wrong about this, or God is wrong to do that, they are giving a false account of Him - since by logical necessity, it is impossible for the omnipotent, omniscient and sole determiner of morality to be or do anything wrong... since it's His house, so it's His rules

this means that everyone who rejects God's will for their life is a blasphemer

and since natural unregenerate man is by his very essence in rebellion against God, then we are all blasphemers

and if one speaks evil against the only One who is Good, then they are rightfully under the condemnation of the Judge of all the Earth

>>92398247

How can people live that way and stay sane?

That would be a life-long panic attack.

File: fuego-viviente.jpg (863KB, 850x1200px) Image search: [Google]

863KB, 850x1200px

>>92398103
>>92398232
I found them at mountainwithteeth.com. They were originally in Spanish so I had to translate them.

>>92398123
I'm agnostic. It's a live and let live thing but I know others aren't as easy going.

>>92398149
True.

>>92398247
Thank you for that.

I'm asking for a friend too, we are very interested in stuff like this.

File: muh sekret is muh spaghetti sauce - srsly, nobody cares when i spill pasta, cos it tastes so flippin good.jpg (23KB, 460x276px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 460x276px

>>92398313
well in historic orthodox Christianity, that same God became the man Christ Jesus, who in dying on the cross; exchanged every iota of his infinite Righteousness for every crime done by those who place their trust in Him

thus the believer is no longer weighed down with fear of Judgement, because their God has set them free from their slave-debt


>>92398344
np - it's what i do

nice duhbz btw

You could make a pretty funny comic out of the Council of Nicaea.

>>92398366 maaaaaaaaan, Christianity is kooky.

File: Jimmy_two-shoes_titlecard.png (474KB, 569x320px) Image search: [Google]

474KB, 569x320px

>>92398052
There was a cartoon, Jimmy Two-Shoes, that wasn't allowed to say that it was set in Hell.

>>92398313
Well, that explains some things about deeply religious people.

>>92397810
Only leftists, criminals, traitors and degenerates would have a problem with it. Ignore their wailing and their 'demands'. Hell, throw in a straight couple who loves themselves and they might just hang themselves before even finishing the comic. You will do the world a favor and hymns would be sang in your honor!

>>92398366
Wrong. God the Father and Jesus are one in the trinity but distinct beings that were both never created. Jesus died while the Father poured down his wrath on Jesus's soul. The Father doesn't "transform" into Jesus.

>>92398366

Yes, it's ideas like that I find so disturbing. If someone seriously believes that, how can you remain mentally balanced? Believing you live in a horror movie? That your creator, the creator of everything that had ever existed, is that kind of person? That is existential horror to an incomparable degree.

It's not the idea of a judgment that is worrying, it's the idea that someone created a universe in which something like that would happen.

>>92397810

Does 'Jack' count?

It's still going, but I am not sure it qualifies. It's not all THAT heavy on Christianity. Although the essence IS Christian.

>>92398492

Do you really want to open THAT can of worms here?

Michel Servet says "Bad idea, mate".

>>92398555
The Christianism-based lore is the least offensive thing about "Jack".

>>92397810
Yes to both.

It is blasphemy, but almost no one is going to mind. Just look at the stuff in general media anyway. Even in the few countries that have Christian blasphemy laws, it'll be very rare to be prosecuted and absolutely no one is going to try and murder you for it.

Other religions though...

it's fine that you guys are having a civilized discussion on what I assume is a christianism lifestyle but

I need more of cute goat girl

File: Nan_NL.png (172KB, 390x601px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 390x601px

>>92398585
As if the mods would allow that.

Go play Animal Crossing to satisfy your need instead.

>>92398574

What's the most offensive thing?

I ask this as someone who has been a fan of the comic for about ten years.

>>92398609
>mods wouldn't allow comic discussion

>>92397810
>Not my d-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-d doesn't exist.

>>92398492
if you have mistaken me for a modalist, when i say that God became the man Christ Jesus, i'm sorry

i was talking to people who don't seem particularly familiar with Christianity, but now you've come along with a view to 'prove me wrong', shall we discuss how the Second Person of the Trinity is just as much 'God' as either the Father or The Holy Spirit, or do you need something more to prove credentials?


>>92398493
i respect your point of view, and think it somewhat appropriate - even though you seem to think the 'kind of person' God is, isn't particularly nice

i would agree with you on that - God isn't 'nice'

that may surprise you to hear from a christian, but an infinite God is by logical necessity, infinite in all His attributes... so while many folks tend to focus on his infinite benevolence and mercy, i think it's important to remember that this same infinite One has infinite anger and infinite wrath; revealing Himself in Scripture to be a 'consuming fire' in which no evil may live

and as i alluded to earlier, this same God who is the sole arbiter of what is right and wrong - by virtue of being the sole Creator of all that exists, and therefore sole determiner of morality - is not a being to be trifled with; because to speak evilly of Him is to commit a crime against the Infinite... for which there is an infinite penalty to pay

and as the Scripture says, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God

... but then the Scripture also says; the fear of The Lord is the beginning of Wisdom

>>92398612
It depends on who you ask. I guess that the quality of the artwork and writing would be it for me but I don't hate it.

>>92398620
Putting aside subjective stuff, there is GR15.

>>92398657
That's racist.

>>92398667
>>92398609
fucking rosianna rabbit is allowed here.

>>92398658

How do you live with that and be happy at all?

>>92398667

Ah, the art...

What drew me was the drama and the subject matter. What kept me was the heart.

It's actually one of the most uplifting comics I know. Et in Inferno ego!

File: carlos.png (228KB, 560x560px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 560x560px

>>92398700
I bet Harry would love that.

>>92398732
yeah, I hear he's into voyeur.

File: infinite joy and freedom from guilt, you say.jpg (50KB, 180x207px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 180x207px

>>92398729
>How do you live with that and be happy at all?

you remember earlier when i said that same God exchanged every itoa of His infinite Righteousness for my soiled and filthy Sin?

yeah, that really takes the edge off everything so it does...

File: harry-hare-does-not-like-what-he-sees.png (66KB, 350x350px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 350x350px

>>92398657
"eeexist" has the same effect in the original language.

>>92398732
CARLOS!

>>92397810
Use the obscure and old Judaeo-Christian mythology, Christians won't recognize it.

>>92397810
Only Muslims will kill you for that, idiot.

>>92398732
I said rosianna

File: Rosianna-Rabbit-043.png (1MB, 800x1592px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x1592px

>>92398838
It means that Harry Hare would love it if he was allowed to fuck Rosianna just by being here. I'm guessing you're not a fan of the strip.

>>92398764

If you are such a bad creation, what does that say about your creator?

File: there's no need to be upset, i'm just endowed with a moar intelligent, nihilisitc and wicked sense of humour than you.jpg (243KB, 900x1366px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 900x1366px

>>92398913
what do you mean i'm a bad creation?

i'm really good at sinning - brilliant at it even - can do it in my sleep

and what that says about my Creator is that while it is an absolute scandal that He would condescend to forgive my outright rebellion, He knew exactly the kind of person i ought to be, so as to more further display the Glory of His Infinite Grace

File: yoda-warning-luke.jpg (31KB, 408x408px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 408x408px

>>92398913
Don't.

>>92398939

If you are such a bad creation, what does that say about your creator?

By 'bad' I mean a complete failure to be what you are ostensibly supposed to be. Your beliefs system claims the creator is perfect. Therefore, he cannot make mistakes. Therefore, everything he creates is as he wishes it to be.

The assertion that you are not what you are meant to be is logically blasphemous, as well as illogical.

Is your creator imperfect? Or did he want you to be like this?

>>92398953

I know. Light a candle to St.Jude.

>>92398729
It's a bizarre dichotomy. Christianity today is so watered down that it hardly retains any of its former glory before Martin Luther started to diminish its power, and history has revised what Catholicism did to make Late Roman and Medieval Christianity appear to be the worst thing humanity has ever experienced. ("We could be exploring space, if it wasn't for the CHRISTIAN Dark Ages!") Things like the Spanish Inquisition and the Holy Crusades are diminished to mere shadows of their original functions and purposes, and the philosophy of Christianity is tarnished by the stains of popes who were hastily given the adjective "infallible". Then there's changing the statements of the Nicene Creed, so now instead of recognizing that other gods do exist but are weak and feeble before God's (Elohim, YHWH, etc.) might, Christians are now taught that there exists no other god or goddess besides their own, in spite of God himself stating that "you shall have no other gods before me".

The end result is a product that is easily destroyed by fedoras because, in all honesty, Christianity has become a masturbatory religion whose purpose is to allow people to feel that they can do anything they want because Christ martyred himself, even though repent literally means "to turn", and that his sacrifice only covers people willing to actually "turn" away from sin. We have people who think they can do as they please and receive salvation by making a deathbed confession thanks to one apostle misquoting Jesus when he was on the cross and he told a thief that was being executed with him "today you will be with me in Paradise" simply because the thief recognized Jesus. Even worse, the mythos completely ignores that Gehenna is a separate realm from Hell proper, and people choose to ignore Jesus' parable to Nicodemus and believe that death is just a "sleep episode" before everyone magically wakes up when Christ returns. And others believe he won't come back until we nuke the Earth.

File: Yokai-Monsters-Karakasa-obake-275715513.jpg (705KB, 819x1358px) Image search: [Google]

705KB, 819x1358px

>>92398493
Would you rather believe that everything has a spirit, that evil spirits can be born from anything you do and that Gods are very powerful spirits that aren't definitely good or evil?

>>92397810
>>92398082
So why is God daughter a goat?

>>92399156
You get an F- in reading comprehension.

>>92399156
It's the devil

>>92399145
Then you have determinists and Calvinists who believe that God has already chosen his 144,000, so there's no point in worrying about morality because either you're saved or you're going to Hell, and you have no choice in the matter. You have megachurches using Christ's name as a means of bringing in kids to sing rock songs without elevating themselves to a higher state of being, all while pastors reap benefits from their churchgoers hard-earned money (or, God forbid, their EBT rewards). Televangelists call this person or that person the Antichrist while spreading fear-mongering hate speech, and no one bats an eye. The 500 Club even has regular programming for it. WASPs are repeatedly condemned for being the most awful people to walk the face of the Earth, when Catholics went out of their way in the past to turn "Anglos into angels" and try to make them the thirteenth tribe of Israel. People who don't believe in Christ try to force Christians into a state of indolence and inaction by throwing "turn the other cheek" and "WWJD?" without understanding that Jesus was an asshole when he needed to be, telling his disciples it's okay to defend yourself in a fight as long as you're smart about it, and even manhandling a bunch of merchants and ruining their merchandise because they were trying to make a profit in a temple -- which is made even more insane because there are churches that have luncheon cafeterias where people can purchase gourmet meals.

There's hardly any higher consciousness that can be earned in Christianity, and it has been reduced to Western superstition. What was once the most potent religion has become the most humiliating, and will forever live in a shadow of its former self. God has become a weak God, having only a fraction of the power that he had when he was idolized as just another Ba'al in the desert.

It takes an interesting kind of person to genuinely believe in God.

File: ALL T3H THINGS!!.jpg (88KB, 453x341px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 453x341px

>>92399072
>Therefore, everything he creates is as he wishes it to be.
> ... did he want you to be like this?

yep, i would hold to a doctrine commonly known as the 'Sovereignty of God', which states that everything has been ordained by God to be as it is, and yes; he wanted me to me as i am, so as to more fully testify to his wondrous mercy

God's Sovereignty is spoken of throughout the Scriptures such as when the Bible states that He holds all things together - meaning that not one molecule or particle is outside His upholding and control - and that everything was made for Him, through Him and by Him

and this includes his Holy decree that Sin would be allowed entry into His creation, so as to more fully testify to His infinite Wrath; His infinite punishment being meted out upon all it's practitioners, with first the Devil and His angels, and then rebellious man

File: 1493033316242.jpg (225KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

225KB, 1200x1200px

>tfw making a medieval fantasy comic with a crusader antagonist
>want to make him legitimately religious, meets the lord christ at one point, believes in christendom and defending all the peoples of europe even though they're all strangers
>tfw publishers will probably turn it down because crusaders cant be put in a good light ever for some reason

>>92397810
It's still blasphemous, but frankly nothing will happen besides disapproval.

I know you want to shill this comic OP.

>>92399253
>for some reason
God wills it.

>>92399234
Sin wasn't established in order to allow God to exercise his strength, it was a necessary step to give humanity freedom of choice instead of being bound to God's will permanently while on the mortal coil. Giving humanity the knowledge of good and evil separates them from beasts who behave solely according to their nature. Humans can choose to behave as the animals they are, or can overcome their beastial state and elevate themselves to a higher state of consciousness.

The idea of actual punishment was flavor text thrown in by people who utilize the Kabbalah in order to motivate people to start following their leadership. There's no literal "eternal fire", but rather an emotional suffering from being cut off from God, who is the embodiment of love and light. It's a perpetual feeling of losing a loved one and being permanently unable to "perceive" beyond what is within touch.

>>92399152

What I want is not relevant to what I believe.

Or at the very least it should not be.

>>92399156

No, God is 'a friend of her father's'.

>>92399226

I don't think everybody can use religion as a means to make themselves mentally stronger.

>>92399234

Do you really believe that?

Because, if you do, then I will say I seriously think you are insane. I don't mean that as a joke or insult.

>>92399253
>crusaders cant be put in a good light ever for some reason

Hmmm. I wonder why.

Oh wait. Because they travelled thousands of miles with the intended purpose of mass murder.

>>92399368
That's a simplistic and not accurate reading of what happened, but whatever.

File: schrodinger's cat got pretty deep after all dat philosophisining.jpg (264KB, 1600x1067px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 1600x1067px

>>92399282
i'm sorry pal, but you're asserting things that i'm not seeing any source material for

i'm not doing the 'cite your sources' meme - i'm genuinely interested in why you say such things as 'Sin was established as a necessary step to give humanity freedom' when the Scritpure of Christianity would categorically oppose such a view, stating that Sin makes man a slave to his evil desires

who would your main influences be in theological lernins?


>>92399287
>Because, if you do, then I will say I seriously think you are insane. I don't mean that as a joke or insult.

that's cool man - i get that a lot

it's a completely alien worldview ain't it - one which i formerly could have had no truck with, until i was gifted with the ability to place my trust in Christ

even now it is a journey of discovery as i grow to know Him more fully through the Scripture which he reveals himself in

but out of interest, where do you think my rationale falls down, i mean; i start with the premise that an omnipotent God exists, and then from logical necessity that same Creator God holds everything in His Creation together... being the absolute Sovereign whom maintains that creation and determines everything that will happen in it

could there be any other kind of 'Almighty God' in your opinion?

>>92399368
Wrong answer, they traveled in retaliation for Islamic encroachment onto European soil despite Charles Martel literally bringing the hammer down and letting Muslims know they would never be accepted on that continent. Crusaders were hired mercenaries who sought nothing more than a glorious death on the battlefield in the name of God, because that is how men earned their ascension.

As Prince Siddattha is told when arming himself for battle, "Either you will die on this battlefield and earn the kingdom of heaven, or you will win on this battlefield and receive your glory and the spoils of war; no matter the outcome, you must get up and fight." That is what Crusaders did; they were men of action retaliating against a force that sought to wipe them off the face of the planet.

Thanks to revisionists, the Crusaders were just blood-thirsty racists who wanted to slaughter dunecoons for shits and giggles.

File: south-park-s16e13c15-what-would-jesus-do-16x9.jpg (94KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 960x540px

>>92397810
Christians of all sorts will get very angry over it and try to shut it down. Yes, so very taboo.
>>92398052
True that, mentioning Jesus will always get something shut down if he's not portrayed in a positive light.
It's important to note that almost every cartoonist avoids trying to critique or make fun of christian mythology to keep their jobs safe.

File: 1488440117460.jpg (1MB, 1137x1649px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1137x1649px

>>92399441
You are the revisionist here, pal

every religion gets pissy about their beliefs being shown in a bad light. in my opinion Christianity is the most tame about it.

it's literally a crime in some countries to badmouth certain religions and in some of those countries they've made it punishable by death.

>>92399441
To be fair, one of the crusades (I think the third) did end up in them sacking Constantinople, which was THE empire guarding from Islamic incursion for centuries. After that, Byzantium never got strong enough, and the Ottomans conquered it, getting a foothold on the Balkans and pushing all the way to Vienna.

>>92398580
this.

>>92399485
>mentioning Jesus will always get something shut down
>South Park, Family Guy, American Dad still going strong
Christians getting mad and not consuming your work, and telling others against it isn't shutting it down. There is no blasphemy law to stop those media or those shows wouldn't be going. You will only lose your job if your boss isn't okay with it (and frankly if you attack one of the largest religions in the world without your superiors consent you are a retard).

>>92399428
>where do you think my rationale falls down

The deliberate inclusion of sin would probably be the sticking point.

>>92399547
Not him, but you should read why the sacking of Constantinople occured.

It turns out it isn't a good idea to invite an army into your city to solve an inner dispute with promise of lots of money, then find out you cannot really pay them.

>>92399428
But "sin makes man a slave to his evil desires" isn't diametrically opposed to the idea that sin gives humanity freedom at all. If Adam and Eve have no knowledge of good and evil, how can they ever make a willful decision? We cannot know pain without pleasure, we cannot know hunger without being sated, we cannot know restfulness without exhaustion. Adam and Eve, and all of humanity, could never face the consequences of their actions if they hadn't partaken of the fruit.

By knowing what is good and what is evil, humanity can now stand judgement for their crimes. They KNOW murder is a sin, they KNOW false witness is a sin, and they cannot feign ignorance of the law. Humanity is now given a choice: To behave as animals, or "slaves to sin", where a sinful nature is one that pursues basic needs and pleasures, or to behave as God would.

"A wealthy man has as much of a chance of getting into Heaven as a camel will get through the eye of a needle," is reminiscent of the idea of a miser that hoards his money. He seeks the very basic reward, which is a larger earthly sum. Yet a charitable man, one who acts beyond his nature and what would solely benefit him, finds that "if you have done it unto one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me."

Sin isn't a "crime" in the strictest sense of the word; sin is just the definition of the base nature of man. We murder in a state of wrath, and wrath is a state of a crazed animal. We nurture in a state of benevolence, which is a state of a loving God. We do good not because we want a reward, but because it is the right thing to do, the precedent of which is established by God himself. He has given the example for us to follow, along with Christ, and asks us to imitate him. And thanks to sin, we have a choice to do as he says, instead of being mindless automatons.

>>92398885
I am

that was my attempt at a stupid joke to follow it up

now I gotta hide my head in the sand for another 2 days

File: c211de5593aea133f206ebbf36124870a202ef7c2cfcf89d999a7baf22d25ebb.gif (465KB, 182x152px) Image search: [Google]

465KB, 182x152px

>>92399428
Whats your opinion on witchcraft and the dark arts.

>>92399585

what is the point of all of that, though?

File: ImaginationlandPartIII18.jpg (76KB, 792x612px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 792x612px

>>92399555
I was hyperbolic when I said all that.
It seems there are a lot of people out there that think there is a large taboo out of using the christian religion in any way you want in media when in reality it's probably the safest and most accepted thing to mock.

File: let the sunshine in.jpg (933KB, 2561x1441px) Image search: [Google]

933KB, 2561x1441px

>>92399575
>The deliberate inclusion of sin would probably be the sticking point.

you mean that God sovereignly ordains that Sin would play a part in His Creation?

well my first thought would be, if an Almighty God exists, and He has a Creation with Sin in it, then that Sin could only be there with his foreknowledge, license and permission, to serve his own purposes... just as everything else does

in the Bible we see God say that whatever befalls us, whether good or evil, it comes from Him determining it beforehand - Lamentations chapter 3:38
http://biblehub.com/lamentations/3-38.htm

but on second thoughts, perhaps your main problem is that you don't know why God would actually 'desire' evil to play a part in His creation?

that's a much bigger question, and depends a lot on the character of God... soemthing which i wouldn't want to misrepresent, no matter how much i would be forgiven it, because i actually really quite like God and i want you to get to know Him too

so first and foremost, God is One being, made up of three persons; the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit - co-equal in their divinity yet revealing themselves in roles within the Godhead, as they work the plan of Eternal Redemption

secondly, God always acts out of the motivation of Love

but as i have just mentioned, before anything else, God is... so the first persons whom the Godhead show Love to is, God the Father, God the Son, and God The Holy Spirit

and in their creation of the plan of Eternal Redemption they display love to each other, the Father working for the best of the Son and Holy Spirt, the Son doing the same for the Father and Holy Ghost, and of course, the Holy Spirit doing the same

and in this plan, which will bring the most honour to each other, they create a Creation which will afford them opportunity to display all of their infinite attributes from glorious condescending mercy to infinite wrath

there's more to it, but that's probably enough for now huh?

>>92399507
Calls someone a revisionists. Posts revisionist .jpg. Statements in the first half of the pic are correct.
Have some historical perspective:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ilFbbk9jw4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ilFbbk9jw4

>>92399205
is it really?
because that would be awesome and i would totally read this comic

File: my secret is, i'm always praying.png (78KB, 302x392px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 302x392px

>>92399734
>Whats your opinion on witchcraft and the dark arts.

i've seen a bit of stuff before i was a christian, i'm not really bothered by it now

because i believe in a Sovereign God, whom the evil one (Satan) must ask permission from before he can act, i'm confident that when people try to cast spells on me or w/e, their master has to go to the throne of God and beg to be allowed to act against me

i occasionally bounce into /x/ and say hello, but usually they're reading esoteric texts or summoning tulpas or spilling creepy-pasta and they think i'm not illuminated enough to converse with

but why do you ask bro - want me to pray to get curses lifted off you or soemthing?

>>92399832
>they create a Creation which will afford them opportunity to display all of their infinite attributes from glorious condescending mercy to infinite wrath

So they create a toy box with dolls to torture to show off to... whom again?

You need to get rid of the idea that there is a god. It's not healthy for you.

What made you think so in the first place, anyway?

This thread is sacrilegious

File: hnnnnnnnnnnnnnrgh.jpg (19KB, 378x301px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 378x301px

>>92399961
> So they create a toy box with dolls to torture to show off to... whom again?

i know you're being honest, and i both respect that and appreciate it... and i'm glad you're comfortable enough with me to express this kinda revulsion at my worldview

... and i'm even more glad that it's an olskool wackjob /b/tard like myself on the recieving end of this dialogue, cos i would hate to think of some wee wet-behind-the-ears babby christian tryna deal with such phrasing

though it would be kinda funny and would probably teach thema thing or two :3


but as for my conversion, what made me turn from my sins and put my trust in Christ in the first place... well there's a lot of factors

first off, you know the word 'faith'?

faith is an olde english word simply meaning trust - it was chosen by the early english translators of the Bible to convey the hebrew/greek concept of a 'trust based on evidence'

now every christian you will meet, will have been convinced by soemthing; some evidence that made them put their trust in Christ... and over time, as God grants more reasons to trust him, that faith cannot help but grow

for me it was in the middle of a heart attack after partying too hard the night before, and as i was about to fall down dead in the street, i said 'Jesus please help me' and the heart attack stopped

but there were several events leading up to that, and many events afterward which solidified my nascent faith - and i went from being an edgy teenage atheist, to a marginal agnostic, to someone who having received a scandalous act of mercy; committed my life to the Lordship and Mastery of Christ

but most folks don't get that, and instead come to an intellectual submission to His Sovereignty - which i am somwhat jealous of

but then i'm a very stubborn person who needed a serious kick up the butt before i would bow the knee

If you guys are interested in a conversation on some interesting points of viewing religious impacts in the history of man, you guys should give Jordan Peterson's lectures a try.

He's that Toronto University professor that got into trouble with the crazy SJW over not wanting to use their snowflake made up pronouns. His Youtube channel has both his Personality course and Maps of Meaning course, from the last few years and this current year's.

It has helped me greatly to understand human kind and their motivations. Jordan Peterson makes some great arguments about it, without coming out as some crazy religious nut job (I believe he's Agnostic, or Atheist maybe, I dont remember). One of the arguments I like that he makes is about the idea of sacrifice that is prevalent in the ancient and new testament. He makes the argument that humans, as they evolved, managed to build their own path to the society we live in today just because they learned to conceptualize sacrifices.

And when he says sacrifices, he's talking about the idea of a living creature being able to forgo pleasure or security in the present time, in order to achieve greater rewards later. In this definition, studying in order to get a work trait would be a sacrifice, you give up your personal time and comfort in order to obtain skills that will allow you to perform a job that would result in your personal security (money wise) in the future, that and work helps your mental state by feeling as an important part of society.

>>92400133

So you were a teenager, you were hung over and you thought you were having a heart attack. You said "Jesus please help me" and it felt like the heart attack stopped.

That's all? That sent you down this path to the place where you are now?

That allows you to swallow all of those abominable things you have been telling me about, including the notion that the all-powerful creator of the universe plays games with himself and created life to that end?

File: you can't snag the christfag.jpg (182KB, 1484x1026px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 1484x1026px

>>92403415
>So you were a teenager, you were hung over and you thought you were having a heart attack. You said "Jesus please help me" and it felt like the heart attack stopped.

man, you sure got hostile in the last 3 hours... almost as if you were a completely different person

but no, i was 20, had a year of training in medicine under my belt, already past the hypochondriac stage seen in junior doctors, did some crappy speed, and being practically a vegetarian at the time i didn't have the necessary enzymes sourced in meat to break down the chemicals, which saw me go into an amphetamine-related cardiac event

tl;dr i was a grown up who knew their shizzle

>>92403803

I've been out.

What did the doctors say?

>>92403907
maybe you shouldn't go outside again, it's made you mean


i didn't present to the A&E, i'd just had a massive paradigm shift in my worldview, going from being an unbeliever to someone who had experienced what to me was a very convincing intervention on the part of God in my life

the last thing i was concerned about was my physical health since i was now acutely aware of my spiritual health, and having previously held similar views of God as you currently harbour; i was intensely frightened and needed counsel on that

over the next month i studied scripture, and sought some guidance from people in the faith - much of which it later proved to be unbiblical - but in studying the Bible i discovered that what God required of me was to turn from my own self-determination and trust in Christ for my salvation

It depends on how orthodox the Christian is and how thin-skinned their belief is, really.

I'm Christian, but I absolutely LOVE the Shin Megami Tensei series and think that it's a fantastic meditation on the both the idea of what belief and human choice can do to society and the very concept of high powers.

>>92397810
Pic not related?

>>92398366
Keep up the good work.

>>92398658
Not a tame Lion.

>>92398729
If I didn't live with it I would probably drink myself to death.

>>92398913
Everything was perfect at Creation, man screwed it up by breaking the one rule. You don't fault the baker because you took a shit on the cake.

File: lulzhip II - sailing teh ocean of wee wee, always fishin for men.jpg (818KB, 1215x912px) Image search: [Google]

818KB, 1215x912px

>>92404376
cheers

>>92404438
i c.s wat u did thar

>>92397810
Christianity is the easy target now. Watch yourself if you blaspheme against Judaism or Islam, though.

>>92399156
>a friend of my dad
>a FRIEND OF my dad
>FRIEND OF
Here, I emphasized the part you seemed to have glossed over

>>92399547
The lesson there being ,"Always pay your Veneto mercenaries or they will steal all your books and lion statues"

>>92400133
The trouble with these is that they are often very personal. Which is great because Christ is a personal kind of God.

>>92404532
C.S. Lewis should be required reading. The Great Divorce is an excellent little allegory featuring a bunch of people I have actually met

>>92404146

One personal experience that resulted from drug abuse.

Why is that so common in these conversion stories? Because yours is not the first I have heard.

And the conceit, of course. Something happened to you - you can't really explain it or place it, but you determine it has a specific, even idiosyncratic meaning and it consequently overrides all logical considerations.

For instance: You, an atheist (or so you state - but that can't really be true, because then you would not have called on Jesus) called out for help because you thought you were having a heart attack.

You are immediately healed or feel you are healed.

Yet very many other people call out for help daily, but receive nothing.

Are you that special?

>>92404518

Evidently not everything was perfect if it went wrong. Eve and Adam, who disobeyed, were not perfect. Although the other anon - a supralapsarist - believes even the Fall was 'all part of the plan'.

>>92404478

Those are the options? Religion or 'Leaving Las Vegas'?

File: That's Racist.gif (194KB, 150x134px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 150x134px

>>92398686

>>92404814
>C.S. Lewis should be required reading.

Yes, as a dire warning.

Hot garbage served up as if it were fine philosophy.

>>92404946
Don't piss me off.

>>92404247
I liked SMT more before learning it was created by japs who got butthurt at other japs abandoning shinto for christianity.

File: take the red pill or the blue pill Neo cos you're having deja-vu about rabbits.jpg (36KB, 538x586px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 538x586px

>>92404736
yeah, but as you say; they're problematic precisely because they are so subjective

thankfully my apologetic has developed an awful lot since i became a follower, borrowing from the classical philosophical arguments, the evidentialist and more latterly; the presuppositionalist positions

i still suck though, and am really at my best when just plain troln

>>92404814
>C.S. Lewis should be required reading.

i kinda think he is :B

>>92404857
>you can't really explain it or place it, but you determine it has a specific...

i can tell you exactly which road i was walking down, and the date in July it happened - and i just went into quite a bit of detail as to the causes of my heart-attack

if you scroll up a little bit, you'll also see that i said i wasn't at that time a complete atheist, having become a bit more open to the idea of God from when i was an angsty 14y/o

course if you don't like my admittedly very personal experience, we could discuss the very real and present evidence for a Creator which is demonstrated by our cosmos actually existing

we could have a go at the fine tuning argument after that

or we could cover the fact that humans universally have a concept of 'right and wrong', and even the babe in arms crys out against personal injury and injustice done to him; both these things pointing out a nascent conscience and an inherent belief in a higher law... a higher law evidencing a higher Law Giver

then there's the consistancy of scripture which points to the promised messiah, his life, and manner of death - the latter being detailed in several places, with some quite precise notes on his death, these prophecies being recorded several hundred years before crucifixion was even invented

but if you wanna keep on poking at my own little interaction with God in that moment i neared death, and thereby suppress your own conscience in these matters, that's your call

as for me being special though

i'm not - but God is

>>92405033

You already pissed me off.

>>92405291
>we could discuss the very real and present evidence for a Creator which is demonstrated by our cosmos actually existing

Please explain.

>we could have a go at the fine tuning argument after that

We could, although I suspect the term 'multiverse' would just creep in somewhere and that would stop any argument dead.

>or we could cover the fact that humans universally have a concept of 'right and wrong', and even the babe in arms crys out against personal injury and injustice done to him; both these things pointing out a nascent conscience and an inherent belief in a higher law... a higher law evidencing a higher Law Giver

Rank nonsense.

>then there's the consistancy of scripture which points to the promised messiah, his life, and manner of death - the latter being detailed in several places, with some quite precise notes on his death, these prophecies being recorded several hundred years before crucifixion was even invented

Oh, let's. That should be interesting.

>if you wanna keep on poking at my own little interaction with God in that moment i neared death, and thereby suppress your own conscience in these matters

Passive aggression. I love it.

"God is special" - No, God is very common. Unfortunately God sprouts like a fungus wherever people want to stop thinking.

>>92405479
I have nothing to do with the discussion, but I decided to stumble in to simply say you're a cantankerous fucking cunt and should stop fucking breathing.

moreso, you're not here to discuss shit, so let's cut chase to the part where you pull an ad hominem on me, I don't reply, and you get the satisfaction of knowing you showed off your power level to a group of anonymous users.

I'd be more worried about rabid fedora athiests. They have access to Twitter.

File: you call 'that' arch-villainy.jpg (100KB, 835x764px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 835x764px

>>92405479
first off, my aggression is never passive - i deliberately poked you

the reason i'm being more aggressive now is because you went away for 3 hours and came back busting to reengage, meaning something in our earlier conversation has caught you, and rather than allow you to ignore it, i'm attempting to reel you in and see where the hook is

so you've said that god is employed by people who want to switch their minds off, so i can only presume you see me in such a light - earlier you were quite considerate and tried to warn me against relaigion, saying it was unhealthy; but i would argue that if it wasn't for Christianity, and specifically the Protestant Reformation, we wouldn't have seen the birth of Modern Science

i say this because men like Galileo had their observations supressed since they didn't fit the Aristotlean model which the roman bishops maintained was the highest science, but both he and Newton were men who prosupposed a Creator, and from that belief, they hypothesised an Ordered and Observable Universe and sought out to find it

this is not something seen in any other culture outside of Christendom, for while some development was made in necessary tools; there was no incentive to divine the mysteries of the Cosmos, since in every other belief system their was an assumption of underlying chaos and ineffablility

only in Christianity do you find men believing that they can take the words of the Bible to heart when it says; 'the Heavens declare the Glory of the Lord' and relying on that truth, seek to understand Him all the better through His Creation

and so we have the development of the Scientific Method

that methodology underpinning the practices of thousands of Christian men who devoted their lives to understanding, yet whom you dismisss as people who want to stop thinking, parroting the 20th century lie that Science is anti-God like some dawkins sop

>>92406050

Now that is worth a debate - but only because Christianity, if your argument is correct (and it might be; we see similar scientific developments in medieval Islam) it means that Christianity provided the means to prove its own nonfactuality.

Then again.

>in every other belief system their was an assumption of underlying chaos and ineffablility

Not in Hinduism, the oldest extant religion; unlike the European religions it proposed a conscious ur-creator. Yet it apparently did not produce a flourishing scientific culture.

In any case, the arguable fact that organized religion may have led or contributed to the development of modern science does not mean that the religion itself is valid.

>>92397810
There's about a million cartoons, films, comics, etc that either touch on the topics of Christianity (in a mocking way, I assume you're not talking about religious propaganda, since you mention blasphemy), use Christianity to spice up the setting/for aesthetical purposes (again, blasphemy just using Christ etc for "cool factor"), or that straight up lampoon Christianity and revolve around the topic. Sure, Christians of different denominations get more or less bothered each time, but only insofar as anyone gets bothered by people mocking things they literally consider sacred. Nowhere near the muslims "draw the prophet and get a bomb and embassies burnt" reaction, and certainly no power enough to get some shit canned because it's "heretical". Asking if "it's ok to use Christian imagery or is it still a blasphemy" is like asking "is it ok to represent the government in my work or is it still considered anarchist? I know President McKinley's assassination is still a serious issue for the population at large".

>>92406313
>President McKinley's assassination

Too soon.

>>92397810
>>92398082
You can make your comic about almost anything really.

Unless your comic is about how perophilia is awesome or how the holocaust is a lie. You will be destroyed for stuff like that.

File: ¦3ig guy for you.jpg (90KB, 542x700px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 542x700px

so following on, you've obviously been around the block a bit and seen a common exti-point of many atheists who cite the Multiverse theory as conclusive proof that we are not so special or fine-tune after all

well there's two - no three - immediate problems with the Multiverse theory

1. it's un-Scienceterrific, because it's compeltely unobservable, unrepeatable, and unquanitifiable

the reason it's unobservable lies in the Singularity itself, since if we posit that the Big Bang created multiple dimensions with their own laws, then we can't trust to the Laws of our own Universe to adequately observe them; since different mechanisms may be in operation

we often seen the Law of Physics being brought to play on this in popular fiction, but what about the Law of Logic which operates in our Space/Time continuum

does Logic operate in every sphere of existence, and thereby make it a reliable tool for gaining information about planes outside our own - or does it peter out at the edges of our cosmos, the still rapidly expanding universe becoming chaotic around the edges as it continues to invent itself?
(it certainly seems to have diminished around the black holes known commonly as 'liberal arts colleges')

i don't know your position on this, but you seem relatively intelligble and you know about the earliest form of Hinduism and can make a coherent - if erroneous - argument from that; so i'm guessing you think Logic operates universally... but if you don't, then i'm not sure we can even continue to converse because wibble wibble tonky badoinkashoogle will make just as much sense to you as anything else i've said

2. the other major issues for Christians on the Multiverse theory is similar to the problem with life on other planets - did Christ die for the beings who inhabit those multiple dimensions

that's where most Christians will automatically appeal to the authority of the Bible as the revealed testimony of God, which says that 'Christ suffered once for Sins...'

>>92406748
but since you have yet to see any legitimate reason to trust the authority of Scripture we can table that one

>>92406768
oh but just one the legitimacy of Scripture and the expanding Universe, did you know that the Bible describes God as 'stretching out the Heavens' (meaning the universe with all the stars in it)?

also; i'm really sorry that i'm taking so long in replying, but i'm tryna make you fresh food and not just dole out old pasta

sorry bro - something came up IRL

BBL

>>92406748
>wibble wibble tonky badoinkashoogle will make just as much sense to you as anything else i've said

I'l let that one fly.

I don't really see how the question whether physical laws or logic break down at the hypothetical edge of the expanding universe - if it even has an edge; wasn't it likened to an inflating balloon? - pertains to the idea of the Multiverse.

> it's completely unobservable, unrepeatable, and unquanitifiable

True. Multiverse is so far only a hypothesis.
However, I could argue that the existence of our universe can be considered an argument. Why should ours be the only universe? That is not evidence at all, of course, since it's basically "Well, it might be" and that goes for almost anything.

***

I view life and intelligence as emergent - a sliver of order forming, by sheer statistic probability, out of essentially a churning sea of chaos. Democritos proposed it in its original form: this configuration is a possible configuration, therefore it had to form eventually.
You view life as the expression of an underlying, hyper-ordered reality in the form of a being which is intelligent, and presumably - as is usually the case in these philosophies - itself has no beginning. How do you make that work?

>>92407692
He already fucked off, please follow him.

>>92407742

I'll respond if he does, so if he's gone, you won't see me.

File: Gustav II Adolph.jpg (3MB, 1848x2520px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1848x2520px

>>92399253
>For some reason
They're shit, Anon. Shit.

>>92409785
No, it was a good thread until the two sides of the idiot coin started to fight each other.

>>92409867
>a furry comic
>Christianity discussion
>NOT a troll thread

Damn, I was hoping I'd get to read more of that satanic goat child comic.

File: unicorn-frappuccino.jpg (886KB, 850x1000px) Image search: [Google]

886KB, 850x1000px

>>92410193
>furry comic
Check the source. It's random comics. The few posted here have a goat girl to get the joke across. Cry me a river and go back to 2008.

File: el-hombre-mas-grande-de-todos-los-tiempos.jpg (183KB, 638x931px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 638x931px

>>92399273
>>92410193
OP here. No, I'm genuinely interested in this. When I was little I read this book. It's basically the New Testament told as a novel instead of verses with some great illustrations. One part that really got me was the tale of Legion. Since then I've been interested in stories that deal with angels and demons, Hell and all that in a physical way. Things like Constantine (I know it's different from Hellblazer), Ghost Rider, Go Nagai, Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragonball, "God the Devil and Bob", Grim Adventures and others are also an inspiration.

I used the Lucia comics because they are a great example of what I'd like to do with cartoons.

File: navidad_2.jpg (140KB, 1000x638px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 1000x638px

>>92413207
There is also a thing in my country called "Pastorela Navideña", a popular play where many characters are angels and demons.

Basically, I want to do cartoons with a casual yet heavy use of Christian lore.

>>92398366
I like this poster.

I'd like to see some comics explore the angelic hierarchy like Uriel or Michael

File: fuego-viviente.png (1MB, 850x1200px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 850x1200px

>>92398344
Might as well translate this one.

>>92413893
I'd like to see a Dilbert type sitcom with them.

>>92399282
>but rather an emotional suffering from being cut off from God, who is the embodiment of love and light. It's a perpetual feeling of losing a loved one and being permanently unable to "perceive" beyond what is within touch.
I knew it. I've been in hell all along.