Best boy is back

Based on what Johns told me, there is a lot (I mean, a lot) that will unfold in this title about forces from Watchmen who have been meddling with our DCU heroes' timelines and history. And as the timer begins ticking down for Doomsday Clock this November, here are 12 things about the comic book you can set your watch to.

>1.This is not a Watchmen sequel

"It is something else. It is Watchmen colliding with the DC Universe. It is the most personal and most epic, utterly mind-bending project I have ever worked on in my career. With Rebirth, I opened the door to Manhattan. Part of that was I loved the real-world influence Watchmen has. I put Manhattan out there, and always thought there was a Manhattan/Superman story to be told, but then ... it grew. And grew. It took my heart and soul over. Still, at the core of it, there’s a being who has lost his humanity, and distanced himself from it, and an alien who embodies humanity more than most humans. I love the idea that Watchmen influenced DC, but what would that look like in reverse? And it goes well beyond that."

>>92390126
I am waiting for all of the Watchmen imagery to be a giant red herring.

Turns out Superboy Prime read Watchmen, and was altering reality all along!

>>92390126
what's the source on this OP?

>>92390201
>2. This is a standalone story

"We’re not going to do a story like this unless we one-thousand percent believe in it. It is all about the story; it is only about the story. There are no crossovers. No watered down one-shots or mini-series on top of this one. This is a standalone story. There is only Doomsday Clock. We had no interest in doing a crossover with this. We didn’t want to see Doctor Manhattan facing off against Superman in Action Comics, with all due respect. That is not what this is about. It is about something different … It will have an impact on the entire DC Universe. It will affect everything moving forward and everything that has come before. It will touch the thematic and literal essence of DC."

>3. What characters are involved in the story

"There will be DC characters throughout this, but this focuses in on only a handful. There is a lot of focus on Superman, and Doctor Manhattan. Doctor Manhattan is a huge focus, and his reasons for being here, and doing what he does, ultimately have to do with Superman. And there are many, many more characters to be involved, but it is a bit early to discuss."

>>92390222
http://www.blastr.com/2017-5-13/dc-comics-geoff-johns-doomsday-clock-interview

>>92390236
>4. The origins of the story

"When Rebirth kicked off, and I wrote the special and worked with all the teams, and all the books did their own thing, I talked to Gary, and said there is a really interesting story with Doctor Manhattan, and his point of view, and the intersection into what is the DC Universe. We debated whether we would ever want to do it, because it is a big job. We talked for six months, and the truth is, it wasn’t until the election, and post-election, that I called Gary and said, 'I’ve got the complete story.'"

>5. This is a timely story (And a story for our times?)

"It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me. It goes bigger, deeper. It is about the world, and the attitude of people. I feel like there are extremes now everywhere, extremes on all sides. There is no more olive branch. It doesn’t exist. I feel like people, more and more, are separated. They are choosing sides, instead of figuring out how to make life better together. There is a real sense of anger, and frustration, and there is not a lot of compassion, or willingness to understand in the world. Telling a story of two extremes, and exploring what our collective zeitgeist states through these characters is what we are doing. We think it’s important … The truth is, if the world and the country didn’t go a certain way, I don’t know that we would be telling this story. For us, the story would not exist if the last year didn’t unfold the way it did, and the rise of extremism wasn't so palpable."

>>92390264
>"It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me. It goes bigger, deeper.
thank you based johns

>>92390264
>6. On Johns’ partnership with Gary Frank

"I said if Gary Frank doesn’t draw this, I’m not doing this book. There is no other artist that can do this on the planet. We have been working together nonstop since, I think, 2005. Everything I have done with Gary, I would hand to somebody and say, “You want to know what I do?” This. Here is Braniac, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, here’s Batman: Earth One. Everything we’ve ever done together is super new-reader friendly. You can read them in any order. We meld on a creative level, and you don’t find that often. He was the only one, to me, that can capture something like this. We were working on Batman: Earth One, Vol. 3, which is almost done. And as we were, we were talking, and this came up. He was very on the fence because of the material, but once we talked about the story, we thought it was something – maybe more than anything else we’ve done – we believe in. We have never been more enthusiastic about a project. This is the most powerful creative energy I have felt working in comics. Everything I have ever done in comics has led to Doomsday Clock."

By the way, Brian Cunningham, our editor, we specifically requested him. He’s the best for us. As a team, he brings a lot of this. He’s the only other one who knows the whole story, along with Dan DiDio and Jim Lee. I feel like he is the producer, I’m the screenwriter, and Gary is the director."

>7. About that title

"It takes the iconic elements of both Superman and Watchmen, and the DC Universe. It felt like the perfect title. I like the “DC.” It used to be called “The Doomsday Clock,” but I took “The” off. Obviously people know who Doomsday is, but he’s not a part of the story, but I like the implications of it. People will think the last time they heard Doomsday and Superman, he died, so what is this going to be? What is he going to go through this time? And how will it affect them going forward?"

>>92390293
>8. If Rebirth brought hope back to the DCU, will the grime of Watchmen infect it?

"That’s exactly the point of the story. Will it? Can it?

I believe in the power of these icons. I believe in the power of hope, and optimism. I don’t think it’s fake. People tend to say if it’s grim, and gritty, it’s real, and grounded. I refuse that … And I don’t care if it stirs up drama. But I want it to be drama in the right way. I think Gary and I have earned the right to do a story we believe in. With Rebirth, I think we proved we care, and take this seriously. We love Watchmen. We love the DC Universe."

>9. If there were doubts in tackling this story

"Have I had doubts about this story? That’s why it’s not coming out until November. It didn’t come out last November, or last July. Gary and I both equally thought, only if we have a story that we have to tell. It took eight months for us to go, 'You know what, we do.' We take the responsibility extremely seriously."

>10. On the emotional connection to the Rebirth Special

"The Rebirth Special was so personal, so important to me. It was not about relaunching a line. It was about a story I wanted to tell. That’s why it was good. I don’t think all my comics turn out great, but that one, I do. Because I believed in it so much. I felt it. I didn't like the DC Universe where it was, and wanted a story that put back what I missed as a fan. This challenges Rebirth, and is the story of, 'Can I reaffirm Rebirth?'"

>>92390293
>Obviously people know who Doomsday is, but he’s not a part of the story, but I like the implications of it

PIECE OF SHIT

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>DC Bendis

>>92390320
>There are spoilers here for Flash #22. Each question and answer is a separate line.

11. At the end of The Flash #22, Batman sees the signal from Wayne Manor, and questions answering it...

"That’s exactly what Manhattan wanted. What he wanted was to get Bruce out of the way."

12. About the final page of The Flash #22, which shows a battered Superman shield.

"That is by design. What are the flaws in Superman? How far can Superman fall. We’re going to find out. There is still so much more to come, but we'll get deeper into it soon."

>>92390293
>Doomsday is a ruse
thank Christ

>>92390207
This

>>92390236
>There are no crossovers. No watered down one-shots or mini-series on top of this one. This is a standalone story.

Thank christ.

>>92390207
will you prime fags ever shut up he is mocking you

>>92390291
That seems to be generally how DC creatives are thinking about it, more about the emotions rather than shitting on particular political opinions. King had a similar comment about his New Gods book.

>>92390420
>There are no crossovers. No watered down one-shots or mini-series on top of this one.
subtle shots fired

>>92390126
I thought rebirth was meant to last 2 years?

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>>92390428
To clarify, Johns is the best boy I was referring to in the OP

I hope Moore comes across Johns in Northampton's Comic-Con and busts his Green Lantern cap open with his magical pimp stick.

>>92390201
>This is not a Watchmen sequel
I don't think DC can even legally make a Watchmen sequel in the first place.

>>92390471

November will be about a year and a half, from Rebirth #1.

>>92390471
If Doomsday Clock is 12 issues bi-monthly and Rebirth ends when it ends, it will be

>>92390264
>"It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me. It goes bigger, deeper.

Doctor Manhattan is going to be a metaphor for 4D chess

>>92390201
>I love the idea that Watchmen influenced DC, but what would that look like in reverse?

Uh

>>92390471
I'm not convinced this is an ending.

>>92390373
So no Blue dick or do we see him before the final page

>>92390512
Why not? They made a prequel

>>92390566
find out this Wednesday, true believer

this has potential

>>92390547
Nothing really ends, Adrian.

>>92390544
Watchmen doesn't have a shining beacon of hope like Superman, so what's going to happen when its characters encounter him?

...is what I got from it, anyway

>>92390590
It's part of the original Watchmen contract that they need Moore's permission to do a sequel. They even offered to give him the rights back if he gave them permission to do one and he told them to fuck off. I guess the contract didn't specify prequels though so they did Before Watchmen instead.

>>92390293
>Batman: Earth One, Vol. 3, which is almost done
Lets gooooo

>>92390536
Is this a series or a one-shot?

>>92390126
this is going to piss a lot of nerds off

>>92390669
sounds like a series

>>92390696
"muh sacred cow" people deserve to be pissed off

>>92390126
PRIMETIME
PRIMETIME
PRIMETIME

>>92390293
>Batman: Earth One, Vol. 3, which is almost done
HURRY THE FUCK UP

>>92390517
>>92390536
It's been that long already??? wow shit.

>>92390632
I mean, they did have the first Niteowl being inspired by Action Comics #1, but I dunno if that counts

>>92390709
To me it's not about sacred cows, it's about having something that was conceived in one way, be respected for what it meant to be at least once, and stop dragging everything into the continuity cancer that ruins mainstream American comics and keeps them so backwards compared to the rest of the comics elsewhere.
This won't ruin Watchmen, because it still there and you can read it any time you want, but it certainly won't enrich it at all.
And so far, it's only showing how much Johns misunderstood the original comic.

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>>92390357
>filename
Are you trying to trigger me?

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We don't deserve Geoff. Or Frank.

>>92390566
It took me a minute to realize you weren't talking about Nightwing.

>>92390809
It seems like you're misunderstanding Johns more than he's misunderstanding Watchmen.

>>92390638
>WatchmeX never ever

>>92390373
How far can Superman fall?" god dammit more of this shit?

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>>92390126
Thank you Based Johns.

I hope this is Prime Time but I'll take Johns and Frank writing Superdad too.

This sounds good. I hope Johns delivers.

>>92390606
Ok Anon ill do that

>>92390707
I guess what's making me doubt it is that pointing out that it's just one story and it mainly focuses on Manhattan and Superman (though it will matter for other stuff) feels like it's just another large one-shot to me. But he also says that it grew bigger than intended, so I don't know.

>>92390873
it's probably going to be Manhattan trying to beat Superman down and make him break but Superman just never gives up and we all have a good cry together

>doubting Johns on Superman

Fools

>>92390860
Ha, as if there were any layers to anything Johns ever wrote.

>>92390846
Ahaha anon

>>92390845
They have their faults.
Like Frank copypasting the same smug face for Freddie Freeman in Shazam and Harvey Bullock in the first volume of Batman E1.

>>92390916
Secret Origin was pretty boring.

>>92390236
No crossovers or tie ins. Thank you based Geoff Johns.

>>92390916
his New 52 run was middling and his Pre-Flashpoint run kind of went to shit with New Krypton

>>92390920
He's literally telling you what it's about and you still don't understand. It's not deep.

>>92390916
Is Donner co-writing this too? If not they're right to doubt.

>>92390944
>Secret Origin was pretty boring.
Fool

>>92390955
>his Pre-Flashpoint run kind of went to shit with New Krypton
Didn't he fuck off before it ended?

>>92390977
It was. Ad hominem won't change facts.

How likely this end with Manhattan returing to his world expecting a nuclear wasteland but finding people are still alive and happy because HOPE

>>92390977
Agreed. Boring is being way too kind.

>>92390955
Bew 52 was cut short and there was a lot more wrong eith new krypton than johns

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>marvel's overarching longcon story about fascism
>dc's about extremism on both sides and extreme polarization

Really makes you wonder.

>>92390998
we probably won't see Earth-Watchmen

>>92390944
It was ok, but not really meant to be something on its own. It was mostly just streamlining all the retcons he made during his run and publishing them in one place.

>>92390782
>>92390632
The happy ending of Irredeemable?

>>92391002
>>92390996
>Superboy issues
>Mad scientist Lex
>fat asshole Parasite

"Borring"

>>92390998
Fuck I hope not but you're probably right. It'll end with Manhattan in some way saying the DC Universe is better because Superman inspires people.

>>92390916
>Donnerman
Sorry but fuck that

>>92390995
Johns basically only wrote the setup then left to do BN.

>>92390944
Boring is better than shit

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Oh boy here we go

>superman is being influenced by watchmen
>loses his smile
>his suit becones more gray
>looks more like cavill

>>92391045
or the ending of All-Star Superman #10 that Waid stole the ending of Irredeemable from

>>92390956
Exactly, that's my point. I understood everything he said and it sounds like it'll be hot garbage that will completely miss the point of Watchmen.

>>92391074
Not really. Something that's shit can at least be entertaining in some way.

>>92390916
I wonder who's parent he's going to kill this time.

>>92391103
That you still seem to think this is about Watchmen the story and not about the reception to it shows that you literally aren't paying attention to what Johns has been saying for over a year now.

>>92390126
FUCK
Now I have to go back to like, January or some shit and catch up on a bunch of crap!
I'm not actually pissed, relieved, actually, that I got this excuse to catch up now rather than later. Just gonna be a pain in the ass

>>92390236
>There is a lot of focus on Superman, and Doctor Manhattan. Doctor Manhattan is a huge focus, and his reasons for being here, and doing what he does, ultimately have to do with Superman.
There you go Superfags, Johns is going to make up for Boon shitting on you guys.

>>92391053
>>Superboy issues
These were OK, kinda wish they showed more of the Legion.

>>Mad scientist Lex
Was done better in Last Son.

>>fat asshole Parasite
Not a fan myself. It didn't really help the character in any way, and making some some hungry fatass was way too on the nose.

My biggest problem is that it jerks off the Donner movies waaay too much once he gets to Metropolis, and it becomes more preocupied with being an homage than telling a good story.

>>92391128
there's not that much to catch up on, just The Button and maybe Superman Reborn if you're feeling frisky

>>92391128
There's basically nothing to catch up on. Rebirth is only the DCU one-shot by Johns, the Button, and now this. That's 5 issues total of backreading.

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>>92391104
Different strokes then anon. I'd rather have boring stories than shitpostable ones

>>92391136
By shitting even harder

>>92390955
The only things wrong with his new 52 run were JRJR and the fact that he had to leave before he could actually do anything.

>>92391191
Yeah, the only standout issue was the powerless one.
Fucking great. One arc was too short.

>>92391158
>>92391163
Yeah, but I like being caught up on all the stuff I bother reading before getting into a new story arc. Just a compulsion of mine.

>>92391124
Yeah, the reception by him, who didn't get what the comic was trying to say.

>>92391205
He clearly had planned for more based on public comments when he first got on it and you could see the setup cues. I think it was WB who only wanted him on one comic at time? Kind of shitty.

>>92391243
So what WAS the comic trying to say according to you?

>>92390911
Manhattan tells him that Jon is really his son

>>92390207

I was hoping for a red herring into Boss Smiley

>>92390207
It would fit the metanarrative of DC Rebirth and its mission statement

>>92390291
Spencer btfo>>92390293

inb4 Superman gets Saint walker's Blue lantern ring CUS KIIBO DA

So remember when Doctor Manhattan killed Rorschach for not being able to compromise on his moral. What if this story is about Doctor Manhattan being unable to kill Superman and having to convince him to comprise his morals to protect the lives.

>>92391345
This doesn't fit to me because Johns already had SBP repent during Blackest Night and it basically seemed like the point of that was Johns saying he'd stop fucking with the kid and making him do wrong.

The best stuff always comes out in the fall

>>92390264
>It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me.

DAMN. Apply cold water to that burn, Spencer

>>92390873
If Manhattan is experimenting with the DCU he's going to want to try to experiment with Superman. I'm guessing this will be him pushing Supes to his limits to try to take him apart, literally trying to deconstruct and reconstruct him.
>>92391174
You're delusional. Johns loves Superman, if anyone is going to get shitted on it's going to be Batman.

>>92390126
>Johns is about to destroy Marvel for the second time
Legacy will be dead in the water.

>>92391708
Metal is already going to kill Legacy. This is just salt in the wound.

>>92390782
Golden Age Supes was a dick and a totally different character, so I'd say nah.

>>92391478
>Venditti GL
>Being relevant to the greater DCU
>Ever

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>Manhattan: I remember when I first read about you in 1938.

>Superman: What?

>it wasn’t until the election, and post-election, that I called Gary and said, 'I’ve got the complete story.'"

God I would love if it's this anarchist story like it should be, completely mocking the leftist authoritarian left Marvel is peddling.

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>>92391487
>Doctor Manhattan being unable to kill Superman

Superman is the idea of the greater good.

Ideas are bulletproof.

>>92391767
why did doctor m get rid of Kyle's white lantern ring when he tried to revive the hope lanterns anon

Doctor m hates Kiibou Da

>>92391732
>Metal is already going to kill Legacy.
Kek no. Even if it had the potential, the greatest threat to Marvel right now is Marvel.

>>92391783
I don't know if it can be done with just Manhattan and Superman, but I always felt that the proper sequel to Watchmen would just be a scathing attack on Francis Fukuyama's End of History

>>92391843

Metal and Dark Matter are getting 10x more press than legacy. Once people found out that Marvlel was half-stepping and pandering to both sides hype died.

why couldn't they of gotten a talented writer to do this? DC employs Yang, literately a comic book genius

>>92391825
Oh shit I forgot about that

>>92390320
>People tend to say if it’s grim, and gritty, it’s real, and grounded. I refuse that
Based Johns

>>92391783
Johns is very clearly thinking along the lines of collaboration. Anarchy seems more "don't work with anyone". Or is there are more specific political usage of anarchist that I'm unfamiliar with?

>>92391907

Anarchy actually requires more communal collaboration, it just simply means there is no "leader"

>>92391893
Yang should not be allowed to write other people's characters.

Like Lemire

>>92391937
how many Eisners does Johns have?

>>92391937
His Superman fight club arc was good. Only Avatar (ghost-scripted?) and the direct Truth crossover shit was bad.

>>92391893

>

>>92391893
Have you read his avatar comics

>>92390632
superman is going to stop ozimandias plan (stop the doomsday clock of watchmen in the last moment), he will beat the squid and bring hope to watchmen world.
For Manhattan a human who was losing humanity ozymandias plans needed to end in the programmed doomsday and suddenly an alien full of humanity shows another way.
Maybe that is the reason for Manhattan to meddle with dc universe, to test Superman way. To watch if the DC heroes can overcome a world more grim and gritty.

>>92391933
Thanks. Never really thought about it that way.

>>92391968
no because I'm not a child who reads licensed comics

>>92391813
I wonder how long it'll be before they try and cram V into the DC universe, seeing how they're already forcing in Watchmen.

>>92392011
It's the same shit as this man

>>92392012
I don't think DC owns V since it started in Warrior

>>92392012
I'd like to just have background characters seen reading V, and other famous publications. Just leave it as that.

>>92392012
They already have Anarky

>>92392012
Watchmen in theory (we'll see the execution) works for something like this because it has meaning. No one actually gives a shit about V.

>>92392077
DC bought it from Warrior and finished it.

Might as well be the Doomsday Clock for the DC Universe as we know it. Although it died a long time ago now.

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>>92391894

>>92392012
Isn't V somehow in the Miracle Man continuity?

>>92390293
>We were working on Batman: Earth One, Vol. 3, which is almost done.
YESSSS YOU FAGGOT. GIVE ME THAT SHIT RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

>>92391893
Yang's Avatar comics were dog shit

>>92391708
Legacy was stillborn

Will DC actually try to mess with superman after they finally fixed things up with reborn? They don't have the guts to actually change anything at this point do they?

>>92392240
>That callback to Blackest Night
Unf

>>92392448
Reborn made things worse tbqh. Should have just given him the family and a few events without wrecking the entire timeline again.

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>>92392236
More like the countdown to the final death of Marvel interns

>>92392448
They don't have to change anything about him to make the story happen.

>>92391243
Pretty sure it's more about the industry's reception of Watchmen. How cape comics as a whole just took the book at face value, and dove headfirst into the grim-n-gritty dark age thing.

>>92392495
Do you even know who Shrinking Violet is, you fake fucking fan?

>>92392495
Who is this character? I thought she was Kate Bishop the first time I saw the image.

>>92391276
Well, it's actually too long to say here, because it says many things at the same time. But the main problem I see with Johns (and many other people's) take is that they seem to think Watchmen is trying to present a new reality of how comics should be, and that was never the point of it. He's forcing the Watchmen characters to represent something they do not, at least as long as you actually care to read the comic and interpret what it is saying (which isn't very hard or super deep, but it seems to be for people like Johns).
Everything Johns says about this thing just sounds extremely shallow and that it's just a shitty justification to bring the Watchmen characters into the main universe to milk even more money from them.

>>92392541
an ugly dyke

>>92392448
Mess how? With his continuity? Doubtful, but if you're asking if Manhattan is going to try to take him apart to see how he works then yes.
>>92392493
If Batfags and GLfags could somehow accept the timeline bullshit of early New 52, or Marvelfags accepting that X-Men/Spider-Man's 50 years worth of stories somehow all happened in the span of like 10 years in-universe, I think Superfags will be fine.

>>92392569
>ut the main problem I see with Johns (and many other people's) take is that they seem to think Watchmen is trying to present a new reality of how comics should be, and that was never the point of it.
when rebirth came out he literally said that the problem was people thought that all comics should be that. he is agreeing with you

>>92392533
And he's doing this by taking Watchmen at face value himself?

The answer to a postmodern fiction such as Watchmen would and should inherently be a modern fiction. I also think it is fitting that Gary Frank draws this story. He is really technically efficient as well as THE SUPERMAN ARTIST or the Curt Swan of our era. Good luck to you Johns, hope you can pull it off.

>>92392541
Lol well then. Thanks. Only know Threeboot and Retroboot versions

>>92392569
Johns is literally making the same point that you're saying. That people (readers, creators, publishers in general) took the wrong ideas from Watchmen be he has explicitly said that the story itself was not the problem.

Why can't you accept that you are on the same side as him?

>tfw almost two full years of excellent DC comics
Good times people.

>>92392569
>Well, it's actually too long to say here, because it says many things at the same time. But the main problem I see with Johns (and many other people's) take is that they seem to think Watchmen is trying to present a new reality of how comics should be, and that was never the point of it.
That is literally Johns fucking arguement, that using Watchmen as a blueprint for mainstream capeshit is a mistake. Did any of you even bother to read the interviews around Rebirth's start?

Dr. M is a stand in for the editors at DC who don't understand the characters and keep trying to change them to make them fit their vision.

>>92392375

He also had very little involvement in them. He's gone on record that he basically just wrote what Bryke told him to write, which is what led to shit like Mai's horrible characterization.

>>92390236
>It will have an impact on the entire DC Universe. It will affect everything moving forward and everything that has come before.

Like everything else....

>>92392648
>Dr. M is a stand in for the editors at DC who don't understand the characters and keep trying to change them to make them fit their vision.
And they do this by misunderstanding watchmen and changing it to fit their vision

>>92392571
Pretty sure only Retroboot is gay.

>>92390264
>It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me. It goes bigger, deeper.
Thank fucking christ.

>>92392585
Of course the characters are going to approach it at face value, because they're just characters. In-fiction, that's how it'll be handled. But if the story is meant to undermine the ideas presented by a shallow read of Watchmen, all it's really doing is digging up that buried meaning to show people in a more obvious way.

Basically, it sounds like the intent is to make the subtexts of Watchmen more obvious, on the supposition that the industry just didn't "get it."

>>92392690
Except they aren't what the fuck are you even on about?

>>92390264
Damn, Johns is tuned into the Zeitgeist. I agree with everything he said about people choosing sides and there being no olive branch. It's leading to conflict right now unless we can change it.

>>92392704
Isnt that the gay version the esrth 0 one in the pic not eartg 257 or earth 33?

I don't like how Gary Frank draws Superman.

>>92392704
I think she would be bisexual not gay

Also cute, not ugly

>>92392777
Sorta. Retroboot did some retcons so it's not technically the same as the classic Earth-One Legion.

>>92392495
Nice company wars.

>>92392690
The message of Watchmen is that heroes in reality would be shitty fucked up people. Rebirth is a response to that. I fail to see how DC has misunderstood it at all.

>>92391783
If anything it is going to preach collectivism. Moore was an Anarchist and thought Collectivism in real world scenario would have great burdens and consequences. But Moore was also against Individualism.

>>92392772
>makong a truce with libcuck sjws
We only elected trump to btfo you whu would we make peace

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>>92392805
Nice shitpost.

>>92392648
First off: he was part of that. As much as you guys try to put him as some sort of Silver Age guy (as if that would be any good), his comics are full of shallow grimdark shit.

Second: he's trying to make that point by continuing to use Watchmen at face value? You really think that somebody who read and understood Watchmen would think it would be a great idea make those characters into the main universe and have Superman face Manhattan?

It's pretty much him just saying "I was pretending to be retarded", while continuing to act like a retard.

>>92392783
>>92392803
I only know vi beong gay from 5 years later where she is battlescrred and only implied to be with a

>>92392843
>First off: he was part of that. As much as you guys try to put him as some sort of Silver Age guy (as if that would be any good), his comics are full of shallow grimdark shit.
People can change their mind. The directors cut extended universe probably broke him inside and made him wamt to change things

>>92392852
That carried over into Retroboot, but she was shipped with guys before so I don't think she's "full gay" even then.

>>92392782
Shit taste desu family.

>>92391498
To be fair, SBP's wait of helping may have made everything worse.

>>92392888
>bisexuals
>existing

>>92392937
in the future anything is possible

>>92392491
Yfw Doctor M Rees at Barry this week in the button cuz he still got some hope lantern in him

>>92392843
>First off: he was part of that. As much as you guys try to put him as some sort of Silver Age guy (as if that would be any good), his comics are full of shallow grimdark shit.
First off: Doesn't mean he can't act against. Alan Moore is also guilty of it and has said he regrets writing stuff like TKJ. Do you get butthurt at him?
>Second: he's trying to make that point by continuing to use Watchmen at face value? You really think that somebody who read and understood Watchmen would think it would be a great idea make those characters into the main universe and have Superman face Manhattan?
What does that even mean? What's their face value? He's fucking using them because Watchmen helped bring about the Dark Age you moron.

It sounds like you're the one taking everything at face value.

>>92392886
That's why he shills those movies all the time and has a Gal Gadot Wondy avatar in twitter, right?

>>92392886
Sorry, but I don't buy this bullshit. It's just more cynical crap from the guys that brought you the New52.

>>92392843
Your problem is that you inherently believe that using anything Watchmen in a metaphor about it crosses the line into attacking the story itself. You are very much a sacred cow type.

>>92392978
so you've read it, then?

It's incredibly lazy using Watchmen for this, imo, and using Dr. Manhattan as an avatar of gritty comics or the bygone era is pretty fucking nonsensical and not really in line with the ending.. or the character... on any level.

>>92392886
>DCEU saves DC... just not in the intended way
That's a very funny idea. Thanks for putting it in my head

>>92392978
Then you're an idiot. Nothing more to say. Rebirth was about as noncynical as you can get. Wally came back and spent the whole issue talking about love, legacy, and hope. He didn't almost die cursing Barry or raping a chick. He almost died thanking Barry for the time he had.

>>92392974
Wonder woman despite being set in ww 1 doesnt seem as bleek and miserable as bvs. Also he is the cco he cant shit on dc movies

>>92392886
Honestly Johns is never grimdark. He is just hyperviolent. His stories tonally go completely against grimdark-ness. Anyone who disagrees has very poor reading comprehension skills.

>>92392930
Legion of 3 Worlds was a beautiful trainwreck, though.

>>92393040
>Murders a man to keep another man's mass murder a secret in order to avert nuclear warfare.
Manhattan isn't evil but he sure as fuck isn't a "good" guy. There were no good guys in Watchmen.

>>92392375
you just admitted to reading Avatar comics

>>92393045
>Wonder woman despite being set in ww 1 doesnt seem as bleek and miserable as bvs.
Excuses, excuses.

>Also he is the cco he cant shit on dc movies
He can just not talk about them instead of hyping them up every time one's about to come out.

>>92393012
I never said it was attacking the story itself, I said it was there to be read and enjoyed, and this won't do anything to ruin it for me or anybody else. I'm not a butthurt crybaby. I just think this is yet another cynical bullshit cashgrab from a shitty writer like Johns, and that if he would've gotten Watchmen, he would just leave it the fuck alone because that's the best way to treat that.
Everything else he says about this just sounds like Kingdom Come 2.0 and that one had the decency to create new characters to make the point and not to continue misrepresenting an existing work.

>>92390293
Of you love Frank so much why'd you let his art book get cancelled you cereal loving ass

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>>92390207
DELETE THIS

>>92392648
So to convey that comics shouldn't be influenced by Watchmen... he's having Watchmen characters influence comics.

It does prove that that point, I suppose, it is a bad idea.

>>92393113
>He can just not talk about them instead of hyping them up every time one's about to come out
He really can't. The guy spearheading the thing not being excited about it sends a hugely negative message. He's just doing what's expected of someone in his position.

>>92393133
He needed frank to draw a shitty shazam story and shittier batman booka

>>92392319

Just a silly fan theory.

>>92393120
You sound extremely butthurt when you claim that Johns is somehow misrepresenting the story by using a character from it in a metaphor about industry reaction to it.

He is not misrepresenting it. He is not representing it at all. It's pure delusion to suggest that using the character would mean that.

I agree that it's not particularly unique or anything though.

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>no Dave Gibbons on art

>>92393044
>Wally came back and spent the whole issue talking about love, legacy, and hope.
Man, you guys are really so fucking gullible. The same guys that made Flashpoint and the New52 write a couple of pages of cheesy and sappy crap and you're already drinking the kool aid?
This is the same fucking people in charge of DC from the past 7 years for fuck's sake.

>>92393236
they want to do their own story, not just Watchmen Too

>>92393274

You sound like a fun person to be around.

>>92393274
This isn't true. They cleaned out editorial like 3 years ago and that's when DC started getting good again.

>>92393274
How much does the mouse pay you

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>>92393213
I rarely get art books but Franks art is fucking great

>>92390320
Doctor Manhattan transferring all the grimdark from the Watchmen universe to the New 52 CONFIRMED

>>92393298
Dude, it's the same fucking people up there. Johns, Lee, Didio. Isn't even Bob Harras still there?
And no, the mouse doesn't pay me anything. I don't read any Marvel comics.

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>>92390201
>>92390236
>>92390264
>>92390293
>>92390320
If what he's saying isn't bullshit, Geoff Johns is currently the most based man in comics right now. Praise be to our king

>>92393325
New 52 Mary Marvel makes me feel funny feelings

MARVEL >>>>> DC
4ever

I really appreciate how good Johns has gotten at throwing shade. He's so sly with it that you wouldn't even know he was talking shit unless you absolutely know full context of the drama.

It's shit like this that makes me think that he's intentionally writing male friendships really, really gay instead of just accidentally.

Johns is literately Bendis
can't wait until Miracleman fights Spider-Man

>>92393485
there is no way Hal/Sinestro is accidental

>>92393274
New 52 was editorial mandate. Geoff was planning a rather big flash story that was cut short by the new 52.

Seems kind of an odd timing considering Metal will be in full force. They probably should have waited until January.

>>92390201
>Still, at the core of it, there’s a being who has lost his humanity, and distanced himself from it, and an alien who embodies humanity more than most humans.
noice
>>92390207
no
>>92390236
>There are no crossovers. No watered down one-shots or mini-series on top of this one. This is a standalone story.
marvel btfo
>>92390264
>It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me.
marvel and indiefags btfo
>>92390293
>DC = Doomsday Clock
kek

>>92393556
Editorial mandate by the same editors that are still there, using the same writer for the event they used for that other event?
Sorry for thinking it's just more of the same bullshit when it's obviously something completely different.
By the way, I'm not pissed at the reboot itself. It gave a chance for new writers to start fresh and gave us pontenial good stories, but the whole event and Watchmen thing is just a fucking cashgrab, like all this shit always is.

>>92393638
That anon is half-right, Dido got an order from way up the corporate chain to get sales up or else. He decided along with Lee to do a reboot. Johns didn't really get a say.

>>92393638
Oh yeah? Well, you know what? U-Go Girl is deeeeaaaad.

>>92390126
Is this going to be the final nail in the coffin of Marvel Comics? There's no way Legacy outsells this when they can't even outsell Rebirth into its #20s.

>>92393900
Legacy is going to be the final nail in the Marvel Comics coffin and by extension the print comics industry as we know it

>>92393900
Legacy could be saved if the surprise page reveals that Marvel is doing a crossover with DC into Rebirth.

But they are likely too prideful to do it.

>>92393874
I don't think that's cranky, senpai.

>>92393900
>>92393925
Why do you think that this is anything special for Marvel? They've had failed events before. I think you guys are being blinded to common sense by your HAPPENING goggles.

>>92390445
King said the same thing during his Mr. Miracle interview. They don't want to put their political opinions on the page, no matter what it is. Unlike Spencer, who is about as subtle as a baseball bat to the face.

>>92393874
I don't even know who or what U-Go Girl is.

>>92394011
Marvel's sales have been declining pretty steadily since Secret Wars ended, and if Secret Empire continues to underperform, that bodes ill for Legacy/Make Mine Marvel. Marvel might not go under, but it's definitely approaching a crisis point

marvel sales & movies >>> dc repost

Johns is Bendis but without 5 Eisners

>>92394082
Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics are entirely separate divisions. The success of one in no way affects the other.

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>>92394082
>>92394102

>>92394011
Because Marvel's sales have pretty much tanked since their focus on removing everything that made Marvel popular in the first place. Rebirth has been crushing them in sales, so their response is to do their own Rebirth without any of the humbleness behind it, while continuing to push their diversity crap that no one buys. Once Legacy fails and this story shits on it in sales, what is Marvel's next plan?

>>92394082
>marvel sales
>flash and batman outsold secret empire

>>92394102
Johns is Bendis but without being a retard

>>92394102
Bendis doesn't have Johns record for relaunching c or d-listers into top sellers. Johns entire rep is making characters like JSA, Booster Gold, Hawkman and Aquaman sell. Bendis is a failure on that front as seen with his Moon Knight and Spider-Woman standalone books.

>>92394223
The thing with Johns is that he genuinely loves characters and wants you to love them too.

Reminder that Rorschach's final journal entry was November 1st. November 1st is a Wednesday this year.

>>92394310
I really enjoy this

>>92394310
Nice catch

>>92394205
Mark Millar has more Einsers than Johns

>>92394011
The thing is whenever they had some kind of downturn they usually upturn fast or at least look like they were doing better than DC. DC beat them with the New 52 for like the first four to six months, but Marvel eventually recovered with AvX and the first Marvel Now and Superior Spider-Man.

But something happened since the ANAD launch. Spencer's Hydra Cap reveal got attention in the media, but unlike other things that got attention (like Death of Cap), it didn't add much of a sales boost to the Cap ongoing other than sales on the first issue. Subsequent issues were around like Remender's sales levels which would be okay for a Cap ongoing but not an ongoing that had gotten a lot of attention and deliberate hype pushed for it.

And Civil War II had a mediocre reception in spite of the high orders it got (which were still lower than a lot of events in the 00's). Even the hyped up issue with the death of a character (which turned out to be Bruce Banner) was mostly forgotten. That's a pretty bad sign.

>>92394223
>who is Spider-Man

>>92394370
WOW IT'S ALMOST LIKE THE EISNERS ARE BULLSHIT NONSENSE

So is this the big payoff of Rebirth or is it another chapter before the grand finale like The Button?

>>92394370
I know you like memes, but if you would read some of his work you might understand why. His DC stuff especially is quite good.

>>92394412
The exclusion of Young Animal this year basically proves this to be true.

>>92394412
or your Cereal Lord is basically writing for babies

>>92394456
I'm the biggest Mark Millar fan on this board
he should be writing this Superman story

>>92394437
Just reading this it feels like a middle step, but it might just be because he's being coy with details.

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>>92394377
Also the second Marvel Now (which had launches between October and November) had a lackluster reception when it was announced (as seen in this CBR poll), and that ended up being reflected in sales. Seven months in and the vast majority of the Marvel Now 2.0 launches aren't doing that well.

>>92390126
What I don't understand is, it is this doctor Manhattan and Ozzy or is it everyone? because I think The Comedian and Rorschach are dead and I don't think Nite-Owl and silk spectre retired.

>>92394504
>CBR poll

>>92394463
explain why Young Animal and Flintstones got snubbed this year while Mockingbird got nominated twice and Squirrel got nominated again

>>92394527
Mockingbird only had two bad issues. Didn't deserve a nom but people should stop talking about it in the same breath as those complete creative disasters.

>>92394527
YA and Flinstones are good, Shade is actually my favorite but Mockingbird actually had a few issues that experimented with story structure and were pretty darn interesting in their own right
the only real argument against the Eisner's is Moore's books not sweeping them every single year he publishes one

>>92394310
yooo

>>92390320
>I believe in the power of these icons. I believe in the power of hope, and optimism. I don’t think it’s fake. People tend to say if it’s grim, and gritty, it’s real, and grounded. I refuse that … And I don’t care if it stirs up drama. But I want it to be drama in the right way. I think Gary and I have earned the right to do a story we believe in. With Rebirth, I think we proved we care, and take this seriously. We love Watchmen. We love the DC Universe."

Johns making me hard. Also a big fuck you to that hack Zack Snyder.

>>92394588
oh hey guess what else didn't get nominated at all this year

>>92390293
#6 is giving me hypercrisis vibes. Hope this comes off as a tasteful story. i really want Rebirth to succeed. truly despised the nu-52 initiative and hope DC is able to correct itself.

>>92394519
Yeah, you'd think a place full of Marvel shills and fans would've said they were excited over Marvel Now 2.0 but they weren't.

>>92390293

>DC
>Doomsday Clock

This is going to be big

Johns is attempting to change the very fabric and course of history regarding DC comics.

how will you feel when "DC" no longer stands for "Detective Comics?"

>>92394615
>We love Watchmen
Sure you do, pal. Manhattan vs Superman is the ultimate proof of your love for Watchmen.

>>92391782
>Superman: What?

Member of the Multiverse commune with each other via comic books. This was established in like 1956 with Barry Allen Flash, and is the ENTIRE point of Multiversity.

Superman would not be in the remotest bit surprised.

>>92394397
An A-lister? Ultimate and Amazing were at parity for most of the run

>>92394706
>Manhattan vs Superman
It's almost like you didn't read the article.

>>92394294
>The thing with Johns is that he genuinely loves characters and wants you to love them too.
This. Bendis writes characters when he hears there's a movie coming out.

>>92390126
So will this happen before #1000 of action comics? Thats probably going to be their next event/celebration then, leading up to #1000.

>>92394733
Bendis also only really cares about characters he creates.

>>92394791
and Luke Cage and Kitty Pryde

>>92394727
Ok, Superman meets Manhattan. Happier? My point still stands.

>>92394777
Action 1000 is 20 away so another year or two

but I don't expect it to be an event, just a special issue with superstars

>>92394294
agreed. john's seems to be happy to write comics and play with the characters whereas bendis write s comics to push his own agenda.

>>92393325

I can't stand his Christopher Reeves Superman, but otherwise I agree.

>>92394777
>>92394818
Action Comics #1000 is next March, assuming no delays.

If they delayed it by 3 weeks, it would come out on the 80th anniversary of Action Comics #1

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>>92390264
>It is about much more than the American president or the reactions to him. That is low hanging fruit to me

>>92394818
>>92394941
The rumor going around is that it'll have a big relation to the DCU, according to ex-Superman artists.

>>92394223

In a Bendis comic you just get his lol writing.

In a Johns comic you get his exploration of a characters history via story. You learn why you should care and continue on once he leaves.

>>92394978
>his exploration of a characters history
Meanwhile Bendis literally ignores everything regarding a character's previous personality and history

>>92394964
Source?

>>92394706
>Manhattan vs Superman is the ultimate proof of your love for Watchmen.

Actually it is, because it doesn't treat Watchmen like some sacred cow.

Watchmen is a superhero book, so why can't the characters for that superhero story cross over with other characters from other superheroes stories when half the point of superhero stories is doing crossovers?

>>92392569
>Johns doesn't get Watchmen
>Then what is it about anon?
>Uhh... just read the comic.

>>92395024

Not everything. He points out things he finds stupid and degrading.

some people take funny books too seriously

no wonder Alan Moore hates comics

>>92390264
So basically If trump never won we'd never have watchmen vs D.C.
Thanks /pol/...

>>92395121
Alan Moore loves comics

he hates the Big 2 being fuckboys

>>92394223
>>92394294
The Flash Rogues would never have taken off without Johns. They were considered a joke before he started writing them, and writers like Waid were openly contemptuous of them.

>>92390264
>pretending political division only arrived in the last election
Bush was called a Nazi before Trump even considered not being a democrat.

>>92395149
best taste

>>92395127
No the first part came out before the election. We were always getting a Manhattan/DCU story, just the execution of this second part was going to be different.

>>92395109
You mean like Scarlet Witch? Where he instead just piled on the degrading elements that Byrne first retconned in.

>>92392819
>assuming I'm a libcuck

Neat.

>>92395149
No Alan Moore likes comics. He just hates superheroes and think they are over-represented and overrated.

>>92395191
lol fuck gypsies

>>92395191

Or pointing out and laughing about Jim Shooter fucking up Carol's history and having her go off with her kid or whatever that was.

Or D-Man. Every time he touches D-Man.

>>92391708
Of course it will. This is Marvel here. They will just relaunch everything again in 2018 .

>>92394102
Johns has the Japanese equivalent. And Japan has better taste than current Eisner judges.

>>92394978
The fact that Bendis has been their golden boy for like 13 years now shows why they are so screwed atm.

>>92395243
>Japan better at anything besides https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44&feature=player_embedded

>implying this isn't a Legion story

>>92395271
could say the same about Johns

>>92395271

He'd probably be good if he wasn't chasing MCU bucks and had an editor to tell him no and remind him that his plot points should go somewhere.

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>>92390126
Finally.

GET HYPE
E
T

H
Y
P
E

>>92395271
Which exemplifies the problem with the Alonso era. All their a-list are writers they inherited from their predecessors. They have pretty much failed on building a new writer stable and fall back on guys like Bendis/Aaron/Slott/Waid.

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> wanting more watchmen/dc integration

i'm not even a moorefag, and i think this is terrible

am i the only one?

DC should just keep telling great stories out fo rebirth like they are with the madman priest, nightwing, orlando midnighter, ellis stormwatch, etc, anything but this

this watchmen wank is the biggest mistake of rebirth, the button isn't necessary. if johns wants to fulfill his moore boner (like he failed with in blackest night), he should use morrison's NOT-watchmen earth instead as a stand in. stop crapping and diluting the legacy of something great

>>92394633
Mother fucker. You better not be telling me Providence got snubbed.

>>92395158
Name calling is not really what he's talking about. It's the ostracizing that's new. Can't disagree with anyone anymore without being labeled toxic.

>>92395328
lol Bendis, Waid and Slott have more Eisners than Johns will ever have
I agree, fuck Aaron he's responsible for Schism

>>92394633
basically Moore has burned most bridges in the industry, I think the last time they recognized him was Top 10? It's kinda industry politics at this point but that makes no excuse for Johns lack of wins because he's butt buddies with almost everyone.

>>92395340

Mostly agree. But Blackest Night was good and had little to do with Moore other than he wrote a GL thing Gibbons recommended.

And using a Not-Watchmen-but-really-Charlton-Earth would be boneheaded too.

There should be less literal ways to show off that superhero comics need an inspirational streak and not to rely to heavily on Watchmen influences.

>>92395370
Having Eisners doesn't mean they've put out good work in even the past 5 years. And their names are not big enough to sell books. Bendis couldn't even carry a second Iron Man ongoing starring Tony Stark.

>>92390126

>It's going to be Superman centric

The best kind of event

>>92395218
No, he also likes superheroes. Try reading Supreme or Top 10 or Tom Strong sometime.

>>92395419
Johns hasn't put out any good books in the past 5 years either though

>>92395342
that is EXACTLY what I'm telling you

>>92394838
Thank you based Johns.

>>92395218
>>92395149
No Alan more loves that he hates comics
He just hates that he loves comics

>>92395370
>lol Bendis, Waid and Slott have more Eisners than Johns will ever have

Yeah, because Johns never writes solo stand alone stuff. He loves playing with the broader universe stuff. He loves writing Comics. As in the utter overly complex cheese of it all. He's not an award winner type and I'm sure he knows it. He hasn't written an award chasing title yet, I doubt he'll start now.

>>92395419
Slott won it like 2 years ago for Silver Surfer

>>92395045
Watchmen is an anti-superhero book. If your average fare from DC/Marvel is about how great superheroes are or how they can work in their fictional universes. Watchmen is entirely how they suck or how they don't work.

Superman/Manhattan is essentially an immovable object against an unstoppable object essentially two conflicting ideas about superheroes.

>>92395480
..... This might be the best analysis of Moore I've ever seen.

>>92395489
Doesn't mean it was good. Carried by art.

>>92395489
and Silver Surfer is awful, which just goes to show how terrible and useless the Eisners are as an indicator of quality

>>92395482
he writes for manchildren

>>92395508
>>92395513
>people who don't actually read the book

>>92395517

Stunning insult from a rando posting on 4chan in the middle of the night.

>>92395459
>DCU Rebirth one-shot
>Forever Evil
>Superman #39

checkmate atheist

>>92395543
lol Lobdell's Superman is better

>Shade gets 0 Eisner nominations
>people pretend like it's still a legitimate award

>>92395535
fuck off Dan, and take your Doctor Who fanfic with you

>>92395554

Bob just quit DC already I don't know why they hired you, and I don't know why you brought your 90's fuck ups with you.

>>92395543
>Forever Evil
I am still salty about how he portrayed the Doom Patrol

>>92395554
now THIS is shitposting

>>92395440
He only like superheroes in a surrealist setting like in Supreme or Top 10. Anything else and it's Twilight of the Superheroes or Watchmen or that issue of Vigilante.

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>>92395411
it's still the blackest night/moore gl phrophecy

johns wrote an entire storyline building to that. i actually felt bad for johns when moore criticized it because it was definitely a love letter from johns

but this is indefensible. at least that was still mainline dc/gl storytelling

watchmen is a critique of capes/anti-cape

but this is DC and johns also has a superman boner, so guess who's going to not lose vs manhattan, even though he can alter reality at this point

>>92394838
Thank you based Geoff Johns.

>>92395607
anon I don't think you know what surrealist means

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>>92395496
>Superman/Manhattan is essentially an immovable object against an unstoppable object essentially two conflicting ideas about superheroes.

Which is what's good about it.

>mfw Superman "surrenders" to Dr Manhatten ala All Star Superman

>>92395471
Well I hope you're happy. I came to this thread excited and am now mad.

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>>92395589
you mean the 2nd version of Doom Patrol that failed miserably and was immediately forgotten the second Grant Morrison took over and began his iconic run?

>>92395609
I sincerely doubt it's going to be a fistfight

>>92395609
Johns merely referenced existing continuity to fit in his rainbow corps and zombie storyline. I don't understand why Moorefags make such a big deal about it. He also used existing concepts like the Zamarons and Sinestro's ring for the violet and yellow corps. It's no different.

>>92395609

Johns uses comic history. The Blackest Night prophecy was perfect story fodder. And it was chiefly Gibbons who wrote around it. I have no idea if this indicates any Moore fandom on Johns' part, or his normal deepest lore writing style.

Anyway. I agree actually including Watchmen as just another multiversal property is a mistake. I like what Johns seems to want to do metaphorically. I don't know if he has the chops to do it. Literally including Watchmen is not a good sign.

I'll read it. I'll probably find it likable but questionable.

>>92395644
>You mean the 2nd version of Doom Patrol that failed miserably and was immediately forgotten the second Grant Morrison took over and began his iconic run?
I remember Lodestone and Tempest being regulars on his run.
Also, Element Woman deserved better anon.

>>92395609
The prophecy stuff was resolved in the GLC issues by Gibbons. Blackest Night/Brighest Day was never in the original Tyger story and were conceits developed by Johns rather it was the Empire of Tears destroying the GLC (and that never happens).

>>92395674

And that whole three issue story where Nekron first showed up.

>>92395707
being Element Woman is suffering

>>92395729

That's kind of the point. They used knowledge of the prophecy to arm Sodam Yat and prevent utter destruction during SCW allowing them to survive Blackest Night with relatively few losses.

Tygers to Blackest Night is one of the few instances of fiction where a prophecy really did help save the future.

>>92395682
Watchmen Earth isn't one of the 52 earth's in DC continuity.

>>92395707
I remember Lodestone being in a coma for a goodwhile and Josh the lab assistant RIP