>Avatar >Little-to-no connection in between episodes, hamfisted

>>92388063
>Avatar
>Little-to-no connection in between episodes, hamfisted """"character growth"""" as the result of artificial plotlines
>Main trio goes to town, solves town's problem, solves their own problems as a result, rinse & repeat

This is true for the first season of Avatar, but kids' shows are supposed to be episodic. The second half of the second season, in Ba Sing Se, were stronger because they had multiple character perspectives and an overarching plot.

Wtf I love Korra now

Real /co/ never liked it, it was the /a/ crossboarders.

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>>92388063
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Avatar's writers were varying degrees of hacks.
If you're looking for an example of actual quality writing in a similar show, see pic related.

>>92388063
>Samurai Jack
>Little-to-no connection in between episodes, zero """"character growth""""
>Main protagonist goes to town, solves town's problem, rinse & repeat
>somehow LESS ambitious than Avatar

>SJ S5
>Plots that last for the entire season
>Character driven instead of foe-of-the-week, and the antagonists reflect the protag as if in a mirror darkly
>character development, changes to the setting, plot finally moves forward

>/co/ loves the first and hates the second

>>92389042
Continuity is meaningless in the absence of well-written individual episodes, which nuSJ lacks.

>>92389098
I'd argue the first three are better than 90% of the original series.

The rest have been hit and miss.

>>92388063
wtf i hate ATLA now, thanks OP

>>92388063

Is this supposed to be bait?

>>92388930
The Ba Sing Se arc is deeply overrated, and in any case covers only a tiny fraction of the show's total runtime. Not to mention that you had "multiple character perspectives" throughout the series.

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Why do i still come to this shithole?

>>92389136
90% is far too high, considering that seasons 3 and 4 in particular are practically perfect (each having exactly one subpar episode).

Yes. Even serialized shows should still retain an episodic format, because that's utilizing the medium. If it plays like a movie, you did it wrong.

>>92389241
Out of curiosity, which episodes would you consider to be the subpar ones?

>>92389304
I actually looked over season 1 and it looks like it falls under the same pattern, so here you go:
Season 1: Jack, the Woolies, and the Chritchellites
Season 3: Jack and the Swamp Wizard
Season 4: Jack and the Baby

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>>92389018
>Teen Titans
>Actual quality writing

I mean, I'm not really a fan of either show, but come on. TT's writing was sub-par at best. Anyone who isn't blinded by nostalgia can see that.

>>92389714
>nostalgia
I watched it for the very first time this year.

>>92388063
>>92388063
>and the antagonists reflect the protag as if in a mirror darkly
Yeah, that never really went as well as a lot of people give it credit for. Only good one was Zaheer, but that was snuffed out in the finale.

>>92388063
There is nothing wrong with being more episodic, which seems to be pretty much your only problem. Korra has less likeable and less developed characters, worse romance, worse humor and worse lore, because it introduces the most literal black and white morality imaginable. Tight interweaving plot lol, they were obviously just making up stuff as they went alone and were feeding of the previous series. There were a couple of dark mirror antagonists in avatar (Zhao to Zuko,Zuko to Aang, Harma to Katara), just as there were just a couple in Korra.

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>>92388063
The problem with LoK is that the all of the best development happens for background characters while characters that could actually use it (Asami, for example) just kind of exist.

A show being character driven doesn't really help if it's driven by the schmucks.

Honestly, the only character I can actually say developed in any meaningful way was Mako. He started out the aloof cool guy but actually grew into a likable character by the end, and out of the entire Krew, he's probably the most overall competent. I'll never understand why everybody hates him; he's probably the most based supporting character of the series.

>>92388063
The episodic style also allowed for much more exploration and different locations, instead of sitting around in republic city. Korras plot got constantly side-tracked by soap-opera family drama between Tophs and Aangs descendents and crappy side stories about the new airbenders nobody cares about.

>>92390369
Mako ended up based by the end despite the deterioration. Giving him lightning was stupid enough but him forgetting he has it except for season finales is even worse.

Hell, had they done it differently I would have been completely fine with Mako being the key to beating Unalaq. Lightning involves separating the positive and negative energies and I figured that would factor somewhat into spirit shenanigans as well.

His final moment in the series finale was done well because they gave enough time on it for it to have an impact.

>avatar
>was good

>korra
>was shit

>artificial plotlines
the fuck does this mean?

>>92390490
I think they're referring to episodic moral-based character plots. Toph learned to be more outgoing, Sokka learned to not be a chauvinist, etc.

Except, these details actually help when they're nodded to as the series goes. Zuko's development for me gets better even during the second half of S3 because we finally get to see him trying new things and being more comfortable around people.

>>92390369
>The problem with LoK is that the all of the best development happens for background characters while characters that could actually use it (Asami, for example) just kind of exist.

Pretty much this. The side characters are the most likeable while the mains always seem stagnant.

Personally I dislike Korra because they constantly toe the line of making an interesting set up or idea, then cop out with some cheap one episode fix and return to normal. Biggest one for me was season 1 finale where Korra loses her bending. I thought this would be an interesting set up for season 2, a dejected Korra slowly remastering the other elements and connecting with her avatar state whilst dealing with the guilt of her own failures and the people she feels she let down. Instead Aang bampfs in, fixes her shit with some weak reason and returns her to normal. The worst part is it does this multiple times. Season 1 finale, season 3/start of 4 the main offenders.

Every other character goes through some personal struggle that makes them more rounded and relatable except Korra because she keeps getting Avatar shenanigans or other people to fix her shit for her.

>>92390490
>the fuck does this mean?

>Avatar
>Obvious within the episode's first minute which character will be made to understand the value of relying on others by the trials & tribulations they face in the next 21 minutes

>Korra
>Characters are shaped by the complex circumstances and well-rounded characters they encounter, all with their own stories and motivations.
>How they change is not obvious from the start, but at the conclusion seems like it was inevitable

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>>92390700
>well-rounded character
>Korra

>>92390700
>Korra
>Complex circumstances
Now I know you're pulling my leg.

>>92390734
>>92390787
Is it time already for you /co/ntrarians to come shit up a thread with your opinions?

>>92388063
>Korra retcons the lore from the previous series
>Korra repeatedly makes stupid decisions over and over again
>Dumb Anon questions why people dislike Korra

>>92390369
Oh, hey, Mako has Roger Smith/TNBA Bruce Wayne eyebrows. That's kind of neat.

>>92391368
That's every thread.

>>92391621
>Korra retcons the lore from the previous series
Didn't happen

>Korra repeatedly makes stupid decisions over and over again
And the other characters and characters in ATLA didn't?

>>92391671
And I'm sick of it

>>92391778
Korra is a steaming pile of garbage, and there is nothing you can say to change my mind on that. If other people's opinions bother you that much, you shouldn't be on here.

>>92391778
>Didn't happen

Yes it did.

>>92391778
>Didn't happen
>TLA
>Ocean and Moon were the first spirits to cross over
>bending was originally learned from animals
>Avatar has lived a thousand lifetimes
>Korra
>Vaatu was the first spirit to cross over
>bending was a magic gift from lion turtles
>Avatar's only been around ten thousand years, meaning there are far fewer of them
>spirits are portrayed completely differently

>And the other characters and characters in ATLA didn't?
Korra is literally the second worst person in Avatar's history, and did as much or more damage than the first.

>>92391867
>Korra is a steaming pile of garbage, and there is nothing you can say to change my mind on that.
Korra is a good-to-great show, and there is nothing you can say to change my mind on that.

> If other people's opinions bother you that much, you shouldn't be on here.
I'm not bothered by other opinions, I'm bothered by the autistic fags who feel the need to hijack and spam every avatar thread(even ones just about ATLA) with their opinions and how "TLOK was complete garbage that raped my childhood and you need to think it's garbage too there are no redeeming qualities you can't have a different opinion from me"

>>92392001
No it didn't.

>>92388063
>Korra let the spirits free, after all the shit they did to humans during Wans time

Why?

>>92392149
You're doing the same thing though.
>Is it time already for you /co/ntrarians to come shit up a thread with your opinions?

>>92388063
They're both garbage for different reasons.

>>92392107
>TLA
>Ocean and Moon were the first spirits to cross over
It was never said that they were the first, just that they crossed over near the beginning.

>bending was originally learned from animals
It still is.

>Avatar has lived a thousand lifetimes
Or Roku exaggerated to make a point

>Korra
>Vaatu was the first spirit to cross over
He broke the divide between the worlds

>bending was a magic gift from lion turtles
No, the power of the elements were. The animals taught bending

>Avatar's only been around ten thousand years, meaning there are far fewer of them
So? I never thought Roku was being completely literal.

>spirits are portrayed completely differently
Nope, we just see more of them

>Korra is literally the second worst person in Avatar's history,
How?

>and did as much or more damage than the first.
She didn't.

>>92389136
Id argue only episode 6 and 8 really were meh.

>>92392292
>You're doing the same thing though.
No I'm not.

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>>92392149
>No it didn't.
You can acknowledge the retconning and still say you like Korra.

>>92392478
>How?

She let the spirits that literally terrorized the humans for no legitimate reason roam free again? Despite them stating they hated humans multiple time via Wans story. The humans that were only defending themselves from being turned into horrible abominations like the man who became half tree or who became half animal.

She has doomed humanity to suffer again.

>>92392758
>You can acknowledge the retconning and still say you like Korra.
It didn't retcon anything though. I've seen countless idiots on this board and other websites claim that there are retcons but none have brought up any actual retcons.

>>92392864
>She let the spirits that literally terrorized the humans for no legitimate reason roam free again?
Not all of them did and anyways they stopped and humans are much more capable now

>Despite them stating they hated humans multiple time via Wans story. The humans that were only defending themselves from being turned into horrible abominations like the man who became half tree or who became half animal.
Things changed in 10,000 years

>She has doomed humanity to suffer again.
Except as we see humans and spirits are getting along in Korra S4

>>92390446
>being the key to beating Unalaq.
The key to beating Unalaq was just beating him. He's a human and fleshy and Korra could have defeated him back in the prison scene but then the rest of the show wouldn't have played out as it did.

The reason I dislike Mako falls to how he isn't necessary to the story in the first place nor did he develop. He wasn't the aloof cool guy, we're told he's got it all together.

>>92390656
>Every other character goes through some personal struggle that makes them more rounded and relatable except Korra because she keeps getting Avatar shenanigans or other people to fix her shit for her.
They strung Korra's personal struggle out across all four seasons and rebooted it so that contributes to why it looks like she doesn't have a personal struggle as it seems to start back at the first stage each time.

The side characters don't have a personal struggle that takes up time and they get to be what Bryke passes for as fun or engaging so it can be easier to like them as the lesser of two evils.

>>92388063
Korra was a horrible character

>>92389136

I'd agree with that...

>>92392478
>No, the power of the elements were. The animals taught bending
So what the fuck were humans doing with the magic powers they got from the lion turtles before Wan did his thing?

>>92388063
The problem is that Aang is a fun and likable character, while Korra is a cringeworthy fuckup.

>>92395749
Throwing it around with no real form or technique.

Like how people who never learn martial arts or even some sort of basic fighting technique just throws punches and kicks around. Or how someone who doesn't know how to wield a sword will just haphazardly swing and jab and cut and stab. They lack any technique or form.

>>92395922
That's not true though, they might not have ad advanced techniques and forms but they have to have had a tradition for it since they used it for atleast hunting and survival in the wilds.

Wonder how many people ended up getting defaced thanks to Korra's shenanigans.

>>92395922
So people using magic to manipulate the elements isn't bending because they're not good at it? Okay then, new question: at what precise level of refinement do the actions of someone practicing not!bending become bending?

>>92396000
>That's not true though, they might not have ad advanced techniques and forms but they have to have had a tradition for it since they used it for atleast hunting and survival in the wilds
Tradition =/= techniques and forms.

The hunters and others did little more than toss fire around.

>>92396268
>So people using magic to manipulate the elements isn't bending because they're not good at it?
Not in Wan's era(besides him learning from the dragon). "Bending" doesn't exist at that point.

>Okay then, new question: at what precise level of refinement do the actions of someone practicing not!bending become bending
The moment they learn to properly wield the element from the sources mentioned in ATLA. That's when bending is invented.

Bending by the point of ATLA and TLOK is synonymous with any use of the elements, even before that person learns the techniques and forms and everything.

>>92397063
The hunters used it for hunting which requires technique to do properly.

Besides Bending is just the ability to manipulate the elements, Techniques and forms comes from traditions which is why there are different styles of bending (Northern, Southern and Swamp style waterbending for example).

Even in Wans time they had bending, The hunters used it, but also the Airbenders used bending to fly on their clouds.

You can say that Lion turtles gave the ability to bend, but that is a big difference to Atla.

>>92390094
Well, then you have shit taste, what else can I say.

>>92397871
You're not even gonna TRY to back up your shit opinion? Fail.

>>92392478
>It was never said that they were the first
It specifically did.

>It still is.
No it isn't. In Avatar it's hinted to have been gotten directly from animals and when the moon goes kaput waterbenders are helpless, that doesn't make sense when it's a gift.

>Or Roku exaggerated to make a point
Where is this ever hinted to be an exaggeration. Point to anything in TLA that hints at there being fewer Avatars.

>He broke the divide between the worlds
And crossed over.

>No, the power of the elements were.
Which humans used to bend. By watching animals, they learned to bend better.

>Nope, we just see more of them
That are completely unlike anything we see in TLA, which were feral extensions of nature opposed to knockoff Ghibli.

>How?
>frees and empowers the embodiment of evil
>frees the spirits to decimate humanity once again
>which directly leads to the dissolution of the largest nation on Earth
>loses a fight she had every reason to win that kills off her past lives
>gets the only democratic city state on the planet leveled

>She didn't.
Who chose to free Vaatu, let the spirits out, lost to Kuvira like the jobber she is, didn't obliterate the Lotus immediately, and repeatedly neglected her duty to master the elements?

>>92388985
real /co/ also used racial slurs because they could.

>>92392943
>Not all of them did
Because most of them weren't around humans. Spirits don't give two shits about them, half of them are feral and just being around negative emotions causes them to go berserk.

>humans are much more capable now
There are literally 2 people in the show with the ability fight off a spirit, and one of them is dead.

>Things changed in 10,000 years
That's a blink of the eye for a spirit.

>Except as we see humans and spirits are getting along in Korra S4
Like how the spirits pushed humans out of huge parts of the city and were ripping people's souls out.

>>92388063
epesodic format with plot underlines that gets resolved at the end of the season is always better then ALL PLOT ALL THE TIME

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>>92400944
>Like how the spirits pushed humans out of huge parts of the city and were ripping people's souls out.

See, they're getting along perfectly and forming a harmonious relationship between the humanity and spiritkind.

>>92388063
Korra gets a lot of shit here but to be honest I liked it
season 2 and 4 had their rough patches but overall I still enjoyed them
it's a shame they got fucked by nick with the budget, marketing and distribution

>>92401572
Mostly how I feel. I'm glad Voltron is there to fill the void.

>>92388985
>Real /co/ never liked it

You mean /co/mblr, which is not real /co/ but tumblr invasions that made tumblr the majority users here.
The same way the /r/donald redditors took over /pol/ and claim to be the real /pol/.

>>92390094
Well, how was it? What did you like about it?

>>92388063
>the antagonists reflect the protag as if in a mirror darkly

Like some kind of ... dark avatar?

And last airbender was the hamfisted one.

>>92401572
It's also a shame they fucked themselves over so Nick lost faith in them.

>>92388063
>artificial plot lines
Nigga what the fuck

>>92392478
>no, the power of the elements were. The animals taught bending
>this twisted logic to try and justify shit writing
I get hard every time I hear this excuse. Surely you know in your heart that you fucked up.

>>92388063
>tight
>interweaving
>character drive

holy fuck lol

>>92389714
>teen titans isn't some of the best super hero content available

>>92397284
>The hunters used it for hunting which requires technique to do properly.
Not "bending" technique. Maybe the hunters had some sort of very rudimentary things down but it wasn't "bending". They seemed to mostly use the power of fire to throw at spirits, not hunt. They were using traps for that.

>Besides Bending is just the ability to manipulate the elements,
That's what it came to mean over 10,000 years, but it really refers to the martial art itself, which didn't exist in Wan's time.

>Techniques and forms comes from traditions which is why there are different styles of bending (Northern, Southern and Swamp style waterbending for example).
And my point is that whatever traditions the hunters had are not "bending" traditions that we see in the future.

>Even in Wans time they had bending, The hunters used it,
They didn't. THe hunters were amazed once Wan learned to bend fire, he was using it in an entirely foreign way to them.

Just compare the hunters throwing fire around to Wan combating the dark spirits in the primitive air village. Bending vs "tossing element around"/

>but also the Airbenders used bending to fly on their clouds.
Maybe some sort of basic technique they'd developed but it wasn't necessarily "bending" since we don't see any air bison around and the cloud thing is the only thing we see them do

>You can say that Lion turtles gave the ability to bend, but that is a big difference to Atla.
The Lion Turtles gave the power of the element. The animals taught bending.

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so did retards pay attention to anything in both shows and only going off there head canon

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>>92388063
The difference is that the plot actually works in ATLA. It doesn't in LoK.

>>92392478
>How?
Not him, but Korra caused S02, S03 and S04 of her own show. This is only topped by Wan condeming the planet in the beginning.

>>92400901
>It specifically did.
It did not. Roku only says:

"The Ocean and the Moon are ancient spirits. They crossed over the Spirit World to the mortal world very near the beginning. There is only one spirit I know of who is old enough to remember."

>No it isn't.
But it is. The animals teach bending, the Lion Turtles give the power to manipulate the elements.

>In Avatar it's hinted to have been gotten directly from animals
That's your headcanon. We're only told that people learned bending from them(as in, the specific martial art. Like the Dancing Dragon for example is something the Dragons taught humans.)

> and when the moon goes kaput waterbenders are helpless, that doesn't make sense when it's a gift.
It does if we simply make the assumption that the Power of Water is spiritually/cosmically tied to the Moon and Ocean spirits.

>And crossed over.
"I lived ten thousand lifetimes before the first of your kind crawled out of the mud! It was I who broke through the divide that separated the plane of spirits from the material world!"

The implication there is that he created the spirit portals. But as we've seen Spirits can cross over into the spirit world without any sort of portal, so there's no issue here. Tui and La are simply like Hei Bei, Wan Shi Tong, Furry-foot, Bum-ju, and all the other spirits in both shows that can cross between the two worlds.

OR, Vaatu broke the divide near the beginning, and Tui & La were just one of the firsts to cross over after he did.

>Which humans used to bend. By watching animals, they learned to bend better.
"bending" in this context refers to the actual martial art, which the humans did not learn(besides Wan) for at least a while.

>That are completely unlike anything we see in TLA,
Nope. TLOK just introduced more Koh-esque spirits

> which were feral extensions of nature
What do you even mean here?

>Korra
>interweaving plots
9/10
you almost got me till this part

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>>92404978

>>92400901
>frees and empowers the embodiment of evil
Unalaq did that.

>frees the spirits to decimate humanity once again
Except that the vast majority weren't like that and there's no "decimation of humanity" occuring in Korra's time.

>which directly leads to the dissolution of the largest nation on Earth
That was the Red Lotus, not spirits. DId you even watch the show?

>loses a fight she had every reason to win that kills off her past lives
She was doing pretty good in that fight until they got locked together in the ice arms battle where Vaatu partially left Unalaq and ripped Raava from her. It's not her fault that she was locked in that part and was helpless to break free.

>gets the only democratic city state on the planet leveled
That was Kuvira.

>Who chose to free Vaatu,
Unalaq did that.

>let the spirits out,
Which has done no harm

>lost to Kuvira like the jobber she is,
She won that second fight, the only reason she didn't deliver a knock-out blow is because Mako made the mech explode.

>didn't obliterate the Lotus immediately,
?

>and repeatedly neglected her duty to master the elements?
What?

>>92400944
>Because most of them weren't around humans.
No, because most of them are friendly.

> Spirits don't give two shits about them,
Untrue.

> half of them are feral
Source?

>and just being around negative emotions causes them to go berserk.
*When the Spirit of Darkness is influencing them, or a proxy of that spirit is

>There are literally 2 people in the show with the ability fight off a spirit, and one of them is dead.
You're ignoring that 10,000 years passed since Wan's time, and people have gone from throwing elements around randomly to having specific martial arts dedicated to each with combat and defensive and evasive moves in them.

People of Korra's time are far, far, far, far more capable of protecting themselves than the people of Wan's time.

>That's a blink of the eye for a spirit.
Source?

>Like how the spirits pushed humans out of huge parts of the city
Because they made their homes in the spirit vines Vaatu created, which as Korra showed were incapable of being properly removed even with the calming technique. And cutting or damaging the vines just makes the vines kidnap any living thing nearby.

Humans learned to live with it anyways and are on good terms with the spirits there now. The start of Book 4 Episode 1 specifically points out that in the 3 years since Book 3 humans and spirits have learned to get along.

>and were ripping people's souls out.
The vines were.

>>92405091
How is that wrong? She is the one that opened both portals and liberated Satan.

She could literally just NOT do it.

>>92404494
They bend the elements, you're just making an arbitrary distinction there.

Bending is just manipulating the element. More and different styles developed over time. Bending =/= martial arts however.

But you'd be wrong. The bender had control over the fire they were using, otherwise they would have a hard time using it for hunting. A more primitive style maybe, but it's still bending.

Wan was way better than them yes, and used a completely different style compared to what they were used to. And you can compare Wan before and after learning from dragons, he still had considerable skill with fire before any learning happened.

Basic techniques would still be bending even under your weird definition of it.

Lion turtles in LoK also granted a level of skill you didn't have to train for. Example Wan himself or the hunters. It's a huge divergence from Atla where bending is started like a lot of chinese martial arts, by looking at and drawing inspiration from nature.

>>92405156
>Unalaq did that
Unalaq opened the portals?

>Which has done no harm
Spirits are known for fucking shit up. In ATLA, the comics, and in LoK, we see spirits attacking people.

>>92403859
>this twisted logic to try and justify shit writing
There's no twisted logic or shit writing dude, it's exactly what we see in the show.

Lion Turtles gave people the Power of [Fire/Air/Water/Earth] to use while in the Spirit Wilds. But they didn't know how to truly wield it, so they'd only use it for basic things. The people from Wan's turtle used Fire to ward off any spirits attacking them. The people from the Air Turtle used Air to travel faster from place-to-place. But none of them were bending.

The first time we see Bending in "Beginnings" is when Wan is shown learning the Dancing Dragon from the white dragon. The hunter leader even says:

"And the way Wan moves fire, it's like nothing I've ever seen.He uses it like it's an extension of his body."

>>92405321
>They bend the elements, you're just making an arbitrary distinction there.
The show makes the distinction too. The huntsman is amazed by the way Wan uses Fire after Wan learns from a dragon. Bending is made distinct from what the humans were doing before.

>Bending is just manipulating the element.
That's what it came to mean later on, it is a general term for a much broader thing. Like how Kleenex refers to any facial tissues now.

>More and different styles developed over time.
The styles ARE Bending. Over time the term has been genericized, but that's what it meant..

>Bending =/= martial arts however.
It literally is though. Just with elements.

>But you'd be wrong.
Nope.

>The bender had control over the fire they were using, otherwise they would have a hard time using it for hunting. A more primitive style maybe, but it's still bending.
They had a very basic control, something that even Katara had over water, or Aang had over fire. It's not really "bending" in the sense of the martial art. It's basic manipulation.

>Wan was way better than them yes, and used a completely different style compared to what they were used to.
Because he used bending, while they just randomly threw fire around.

>And you can compare Wan before and after learning from dragons, he still had considerable skill with fire before any learning happened.
Not really "skill", just a lot of power behind it. Wan isn't "skilled" until he learns from the dragon.

>Basic techniques would still be bending even under your weird definition of it.
Nope.

>Lion turtles in LoK also granted a level of skill you didn't have to train for. Example Wan himself or the hunters.
They didn't. They simply gave you the power to manipulate it. The skill came from learning from sources.

>It's a huge divergence from Atla where bending is started like a lot of chinese martial arts, by looking at and drawing inspiration from nature.
There's no divergence.

>>92405301
>When the Spirit of Darkness is influencing them, or a proxy of that spirit is
Actually, spirits in general are influenced by emotions. Korra influenced spirits as well when she was in the spiritual world. It is unclear how that works; if being the avatar, or being in the spiritual world, has anything to do with that.

That said, even music was able to influence spirits. They are very.. random.

>>92405346
>Unalaq opened the portals?
Unalaq worked to free and empower Vaatu, part of that was manipulating Korra into opening the portals.

>Spirits are known for fucking shit up.
*some spirits are

>In ATLA, the comics, and in LoK, we see spirits attacking people.

In ATLA, only Hei Bei does and it's because his forest was decimated by the Fire Nation. He was angry. But Aang calmed him.

In the comics, it's still just specific spirits(or in the case of Smoke and Shadow, impersonators) and even they were combated.

In TLOK, it's primarily when Unalaq was doing fuckery with Vaatu's power. The Vines attacked people who attacked them(and in the case of Kuvira's attacks, any living thing nearby them in defense)

>>92405301
>most of them are friendly.
humans had to live in FUCKING TURTLES because spirits didn't want humans in their space.

When Kuvira attacked, they also just fuck off until shit is clean again for them to steal human space.

>>92392107
>>92405321
>>92403859
Are you FUCKING STUPID? Did you even watch the show?
In ATLA they never said the animals gave people the bending abilities, literally every time the bending animals/moon are mentioned they refer to them as "teachers" of the bending art.
The talent to bend the elements is given by the lion turtles, that's why not everyone has bending abilities, or else any non-bender like Sokka could just observe the moon pushing and pulling the ocean and would be able to manipulate water.
Firebending for example, after receiving the firebending gift, Wan is seen learning to master the bending technique from a dragon. Zuko and Aang learn the Dragon Dance from dragons, a routine of bending forms.
Every bending kind is based on a real life form of martial arts:
Firebending: Northern Shaolin
Waterbending: Tai Chi
Earthbending: Hung Gar
Airbending: Ba Gua Zhang

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9cVlJOADb0
This is what the animals taught.

>>92405001
>The animals teach bending
Katara was bending before having gotten a single lesson.

>That's your headcanon
That is what's stated in the show.

>as in, the specific martial art.
No, as in manipulating it period.

>It does if we simply make the assumption that the Power of Water is spiritually/cosmically tied to the Moon and Ocean spirits.
Which makes zero sense if they didn't draw from it in the first place.

>The implication there is that he
Broke the divide and let spirits in in the first place, and came over himself.

>all the other spirits in both shows that can cross between the two worlds.
After Vaatu broke the divide.

>Vaatu broke the divide but didn't bother going immediately
Bullshit.

>"bending" in this context refers to the actual martial art
No, it's manipulating the element. Korra was doing it without being exposed to three quarters of the arts in an igloo.

>TLOK just introduced more Koh-esque spirits
Koh is a morally apathetic centipede hybrid. He's a dark motherfucker who doesn't particularly care for humans one way or another, compared to the Ghibli knockoffs in Korra.

>What do you even mean here?
TLA spirits resembled real animals or parts of nature, and almost all were animal like. That is completely at odds with Korra's depiction.

>>92405786
>Actually, spirits in general are influenced by emotions. Korra influenced spirits as well when she was in the spiritual world. It is unclear how that works; if being the avatar, or being in the spiritual world, has anything to do with that.
It was mainly because she was the Avatar from what Iroh was implying. For regular humans it'd likely be something in a similar light but less severe. Iroh says your emotions become your reality, so people who are scared see demons.

>>92405850
>humans had to live in FUCKING TURTLES because spirits didn't want humans in their space.
*because some spirits didn't.

>When Kuvira attacked, they also just fuck off until shit is clean again
*they left because they didn't want to get involved in human affairs or risk annihilation by Kuvira's bastardization of the vines.

>for them to steal human space.
You mean their territory. The Spirit wilds in Republic City are their territory now, it's where they live. Humans are fine with that now.

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>>92405883
>Katara was bending before having gotten a single lesson.

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175KB, 430x443px

>>92405817
>part of that was manipulating Korra into opening the portals
If we're talking about the FIRST portal i do agree there wasn't much of Korra's fault.

But the second portal she was just retarded. She could literally just stay in her igloo until Harmonic convergence was over with, but she decided to go to the spiritual world for no particular reason. They could just go there after.

>*some spirits are
so why live with them, knowing that "some" of them can fuck an entire village?

>He was angry
Not an excuse to attack random people. Also, you're forgetting the facestealer. The only spirit that was justified in attacking humans was the fish spirit, and he avoided harming people that didn't do anything to him.

>In the comics, it's still just specific spirits
There were plenty of non-specific spirits attacking people, mostly the ones controlled by mother of faces, and her dog that literally attacked for NO reason. Also, in the case of smoke and shadows, we know the kemurikage was real, and that she was a douchebag that kidnapped children.

>In TLOK, it's primarily when Unalaq was doing fuckery
Yeah, let's forget the Wan episodes. Let's forget the spider spirit, the mist spirit, and the vines kidnapping people in the last season because someone was poking it on the other side of the planet (you don't kidnap people in self-defense).

>>92405156
>Unalaq did that.
Korra was the one who opened the portals, failed to stop Unalaq from merging then failed to kill him in the state.

>Except that the vast majority weren't like that
Almost all of them were like that. Wan spent years living with them and decided it was better to stem the tide. Vaatu wanted them mixed into the material world to cause chaos and Raava admits spirits don't belong in the mortal realm.

>That was the Red Lotus, not spirits.
Who got out because the spirits gifted Zaheer air bending and Korra failed to stop them in time.

>She was doing pretty good in that fight
She was being overpowered by a man with zero past lives that had just become an Avatar five minutes ago and was limited to her native element, she should have stomped the shit out of him.

>until they got locked together in the ice arms battle where Vaatu partially left Unalaq
That is never hinted at. Far as we know it's a spirit technique Korra never bothered to pick up, and if Unalaq could do it so could she.

>It's not her fault that she was locked in that part and was helpless to break free.
She was the one who hadn't stomped him already, engaged in the struggle, and lost that struggle with her native element and past lives. It is entirely her fault.

>That was Kuvira.
Whom Korra had a literal perfect opportunity to crush beforehand.

>Which has done no harm
>dissolved the largest nation on earth
>leveled the capital city of the planet
>unleashed monsters onto the land
Did you watch Korra, by any chance?

>She won that second fight
No she didn't, it was a draw.

>the only reason she didn't deliver a knock-out blow
That is never once hinted at. She and Kuvira were going even.

>?
>wakes up
>bad guys
>immediately paralyzes the lot of them with bloodbending
What's her excuse?

>What?
She didn't master a single element, unleashed the embodiment of evil and consulted her past lives all of twice. She was an abject failure.

>>92405910
People who are scared not only 'see demons', they actually attack you.

>because some spirits
>some
either it was the majority os spirits, or enough spirits to threaten mankind. Either way you DO NOT live with something that forced you to live in turtles. There is zero reason to open the portals.

>they didn't want to get involved in human affairs
that's another name for "not fucking care about humans".

>The Spirit wilds in Republic City are their territory now
they imposed themselves there.

>Humans are fine with that now
*some humans. AKA spirit-cucks.

>>92405883
>Katara was bending before having gotten a single lesson.
No, she was manipulating it. She didn't start bending until she had the waterbending scroll.

>That is what's stated in the show.
No it's not, see this anon's post>>92405877

>No, as in manipulating it period.
No, as in the martial art.

>Which makes zero sense if they didn't draw from it in the first place.
It has nothing to do with that. The Power of Water, which the Lion Turtles gave people the ability to manipulate, is spiritually/cosmically tied to the Moon and Ocean spirits. Humans are then given the Power of Water. The Power of Water is given strength by the Moon and Ocean.

> and let spirits in in the first place
We're never told that .

>After Vaatu broke the divide.
The divide is implied to be the portals. But Spirits can go between worlds without the portals.

>No, it's manipulating the element.
Only because the term was genericized over time.

>was doing it without being exposed to three quarters of the arts in an igloo.
Katara was manipulating the element, but she didn't learn to master the art of waterbending until she had that scroll, and later a teacher.

>Koh is a morally apathetic centipede hybrid.
He looks nothing like any real centipede. He's a monster that vaguely resembles a centipede in the basic sense of "multiple legs/arms"

>He's a dark motherfucker who doesn't particularly care for humans one way or another,
Irrelevant, you were referring to design.

>compared to the Ghibli knockoffs in Korra.
The idea behind Koh's design is no different from many of the spirits in TLOK.

>TLA spirits resembled real animals or parts of nature, and almost all were animal like.
Except for Koh. We don't see hardly more than a dozen or so spirits in ATLA anyways, there's not an accurate way to judge the ratio

>That is completely at odds with Korra's depiction.
It's not. TLOK just showed us that there are many spirits that are along the design idea of Koh

>>92405301
>No, because most of them are friendly.
They drove humans to the brink of extinction and any of them can be corrupted.

>Untrue.
>Will you help us defeat Kuvira and save our home?
>Nope, fuck you guys, spirits are for the spirits

>Source?
The show?

>When the Spirit of Darkness is influencing them, or a proxy of that spirit is
Neither of that is true of when Vaatu was sealed. It's even noted Korra's father chasing the barbarians into the woods is what angered the spirits.

>You're ignoring that 10,000 years passed since Wan's time
Which has produced exactly 2 people capable of fighting off spirits, one of which is dead.

>and people have gone from throwing elements around randomly to having specific martial arts dedicated to each with combat and defensive and evasive moves in them.
Which, combined with the power of a fully realized Avatar, lost to one nameless dark spirit. Humanity has zero chance.

>People of Korra's time are far, far, far, far more capable of protecting themselves than the people of Wan's time.
So what happens when a spirit teleports in from nowhere and possesses someone until their body burns out in a minute? What happens with something like Vaatu or worse comes rolling along?

>Source?
Vaatu, and the fact they're immortal.

>Because they made their homes in the spirit vines Vaatu created
That grew and further pushed out the original inhabitants, instead of returning them.

>And cutting or damaging the vines just makes the vines kidnap any living thing nearby.
Or hundreds of miles away that had nothing to do with it.

>Humans learned to live with it anyways
By staying the fuck away from them.

>The start of Book 4 Episode 1 specifically points out that in the 3 years since Book 3 humans and spirits have learned to get along.
In a propoganda reel.

>The vines were.
Which were spirits.

>>92405877
i think most of the idiots here didnt even watch the show

>>92406089
>But the second portal she was just retarded. She could literally just stay in her igloo until Harmonic convergence was over with, but she decided to go to the spiritual world for no particular reason. They could just go there after.
She thought Unalaq could open the other portal without her.

>KORRA: "I'm done being manipulated by you. You're going to bring my father back, then you and your troops will return to the North."
>UNALAQ: "And why would I do that?"
>KORRA: "Because you still need me to open the Northern portal."
>UNALAQ: "No, I don't. You've served your purpose."

>so why live with them, knowing that "some" of them can fuck an entire village?
Because those some can be fought back by benders now.

>Not an excuse to attack random people.
Spirits, like humans, are not infallible. They do things when they're angry that are driven by emotion rather than common sense.

>Also, you're forgetting the facestealer.
He seems to be confined to his cave

>There were plenty of non-specific spirits attacking people, mostly the ones controlled by mother of faces, and her dog that literally attacked for NO reason.

>Also, in the case of smoke and shadows, we know the kemurikage was real, and that she was a douchebag that kidnapped children.
the Kemurikage(more than one spirit) only kidnapped children in the past from warlords who kidnapped people's children. It was an eye for an eye.

>Yeah, let's forget the Wan episodes.
Oh, you mean 10,000 years in the past and only specific spirits?

>Let's forget the spider spirit,
Only attacked people bothering it

>the mist spirit,
only imprisoned people who were thrown in it.

>and the vines kidnapping people in the last season because someone was poking it on the other side of the planet (you don't kidnap people in self-defense).
You do if you're under attack and are a plant. The vines are not intelligent creatures, they're plants that will defend themselves when under attack.

>>92406307
>No, she was manipulating it.
Which is bending it.

>No it's not, see this anon's post
That Anon is a retard that ignores the fact if the animals were simply teachers anyone could have used any style for any element, which they don't.

>No, as in the martial art.
Way to contradict the show.

>It has nothing to do with that.
If they don't draw from losing it shouldn't affect them.

>is spiritually/cosmically tied to the Moon and Ocean spirits
Because it was granted by something completely unrelated to them?

>We're never told that .
He broke the only thing keeping them separated. If it wasn't broken, nothing was getting through.

>The divide is implied to be
What separated the planes, which Vaatu broke.

>Only because the term was genericized
Never stated.

>Katara was manipulating the element
Because she could bend it.

>He looks nothing like any real centipede
>segmented carapace
>multiple legs
>not a centipede
No.

>Irrelevant, you were referring to design.
I was referring to the fact TLA spirits are drastically different from Korra's.

>The idea behind Koh's design is no different from many of the spirits in TLOK.
Except those spirits are in a gross minority and not half as dark as Koh or the other TLA spirits.

>Except for Koh.
And the wolf we see when Aang enters the spirit world, and the panda, and the owl, and the fish.

>We don't see hardly more than a dozen or so spirits in ATLA anyways
So we should go with the evidence on hand, which is that Korra's were a massive departure.

>TLOK just showed us that there are many spirits that are along the design idea of Koh
Almost none of Korra's spirits are like Koh, in design nor personality. And if they were, why the fuck would you want thousands of Kohs running around the human world?

>>92389301
The best shows have continuity.

>>92406556
>She thought Unalaq could open the other portal without her.
And then saw he couldn't and opened it anyway.

>>92405714
No the show doesn't make that distinction actually. Anyone who can bend is a bender. And you don't need a martial art to do that.

They might not have called it bending if that's what you mean, but it is the same thing.

Bending is the ability, not the style. If it was the bending you couldn't have different styles of the same bending.

The Airbenders from wans time could fly on clouds, which is more advanced than aangs time.

Wan was also better before he used dragon style.

If the turtles don't give you skill, explain Wans skills before dragons.

There is, Atla states multiple times that animals and nature taught them bending. Cave of two lovers, the Flame native americans, the watertribes are examples of this. No such thing in LoK.

>>92406120
>Korra was the one who opened the portals,
But Unalaq is the one who made her do that and the one who was working to free Vaatu.

> failed to stop Unalaq from merging
Because Mako and Bolin failed to keep him in the material world.

> then failed to kill him in the state.
She was winning until they reached the stalemate of locked arms.

>Who got out because the spirits gifted Zaheer air bending
Spirits didn't give him airbending, Harmonic Convergence did. Korra had no idea that would happen.

>and Korra failed to stop them in time.
It's not her fault the Red Lotus evaded capture and killed the Earth Queen, Korra was kidnapped and unable to do anything at that time.

>She was being overpowered by a man with zero past lives that had just become an Avatar five minutes ago and was limited to her native element, she should have stomped the shit out of him.
She was only overpowered when they became locked together at the arms, but that was only because Vaatu left Unalaq's body partially and attacked her.

If you watch the fight, Korra was stomping Unalaq's shit(after she went Avatar state) until that point.

>That is never hinted at.
But isn't out of the question as spirits can enter and leave bodies.

>Far as we know it's a spirit technique Korra never bothered to pick up, and if Unalaq could do it so could she.
You can't fault her for something that she never knew existed.

>She was the one who hadn't stomped him already,
She was stomping him.

>engaged in the struggle, and lost that struggle with her native element and past lives.
She only lost that struggle because of Vaatu fuckery that she could not have possibly known about.

> It is entirely her fault.
It is not.

>Whom Korra had a literal perfect opportunity to crush beforehand.
If you're talking about at Zaofu, she wasn't in the right state of mind to do that.

>>92405877
They specificly mention Dragons, Badgermoles, Airbison and the Moon as the origins of bending. People studied them and learned from them how to bend.

Wans was allready gifted with strong firebending before learning from a dragon so you idea doesn't hold up.

it is also true that the styles are based on real martial arts, many of whom were discovered by watching animals and mimicking them, which is why bending followed the same rules in Atla, but do not in LoK.

>>92406120
>dissolved the largest nation on earth
That was the Red Lotus

>leveled the capital city of the planet
One, that was Kuvira
Two, Republic City is not "the capital city of the planet". It's the capital of one nation.

>unleashed monsters onto the land
Who did no harm.

>Did you watch Korra, by any chance?
Did you?

>No she didn't, it was a draw.
She was winning before the mech exploded.

>That is never once hinted at. She and Kuvira were going even.
We literally see that she is kicking Kuvira's ass

>What's her excuse?
What do you mean? Korra never learned bloodbending.

>She didn't master a single element,
She mastered 3 of them before the series even kicks off fully. After we're given a brief backstory of how she was discovered it immediately cuts to her taking the firebending test.

>unleashed the embodiment of evil
Unalaq did that.

>and consulted her past lives all of twice.
Aang was hardly better

>She was an abject failure.
Nope

>>92406881
Lol she was not kicking Kuviras ass, Korra took heavy hits getting hit by iron, tied up and dragged around the ceiling, then smashed to the floor. Korra and Kuvira were evenly matched, Korra may or may not have won in the long run, but it is far from an ass-kicking.

>>92389201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOu_On_6vMY

>>92406320
>They drove humans to the brink of extinction
*Some did

> and any of them can be corrupted
only by Vaatu. Korra can affect them when in the spirit world, but that's because she's the Avatar

>Nope, fuck you guys, spirits are for the spirits
They didn't want to get involved in a human war,that doesn't mean none of them care about human

>The show?
The show only has a couple "feral" spirits so no.

>Neither of that is true of when Vaatu was sealed.
Unalaq was literally using Vaatu's power to turn spirits dark

>chasing the barbarians into the woods is what angered the spirits.
No, him attacking there did that, and it was planned out by Unalaq to turn the spirits dark so he could "save the day" and get Tonraq banished

>Which has produced exactly 2 people capable of fighting off spirits, one of which is dead.
And millions of people trained to fight and defend with bending

>Which, combined with the power of a fully realized Avatar, lost to one nameless dark spirit.
Surprise attack>>92406320
>So what happens when a spirit teleports in from nowhere and possesses someone until their body burns out in a minute?
Won't happen

> What happens with something like Vaatu or worse comes rolling along?
Again, won't happen. Vaatu is a singular entity and there is no worse than him.

>Vaatu,
Vaatu is one, all powerful spirit

>and the fact they're immortal.
Doesn't mean 10,000 years is the blink of an eye for them.

>That grew and further pushed out the original inhabitants,
Only grew out once after Korra tried something.

>Or hundreds of miles away that had nothing to do with it.
It's a fucking plant

>By staying the fuck away from them
Except that didn't happen. Try watching the show, we see spirits and humans in the same areas

>In a propoganda reel
No, in a recap of what's happened over the time skip. You don't get to discount it jut because you don't like it

>Which were spirits.
A spirit plant that only did so when it was being maimed

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>>92397871
No u.

>>92406556
>She thought Unalaq could open the other portal without her.
She had visions showing only the avatar could, right after that part. Not only that, until that point he needed her to open hte portals, so it's unlikely that in one day he learned of a way to open the second portal. Another thing: even if they manage to close the portal, what then? Unalaq opens it again and put troops inside the portal. There is NO reason to go there.

>Because those some can be fought back by benders now
Isn't it better not to fight at all?

>They do things when they're angry that are driven by emotion
When was the last time you attacked a whole village out of anger?

> from warlords
1. No, they kidnapped from the people under that warlord. The ones that he dominated.
2. The kid should suffer because of that?

>only specific spirits
yeah, 6-7 spirits that were shown were able to make the entire humanity live in turtles. Sounds legit.

>Only attacked people bothering it
they were asking questions. She tried to murder them.

>only imprisoned people who were thrown in it
Do you imprison people that happen to walk in your garden?

>You do if you're under attack and are a plant
You attack the people actually harming you, and not people that didn't do shit.

>The vines are not intelligent creatures
kidnapping people says otherwise. Also, that's another argument against spirits. Most of them are just beasts. You don't live with lions and bears.

>>92407705
"Won't happen." is not an argument. Neither is them not wanting to get involved in a human war, especially with the message of working together and coexisting with spirits/humans, they are part of a society and spread there vines everywhere, but refuse to help defend said society when it is in peril. We should all let them live in our native world, because #notAll of them drove humanity to the brink of extinction, is a pretty weak argument.

>>92406572
>Which is bending it.
Only in the modern sense of bending which is a generic term

>That Anon is a retard
So the show is a retard too?

> that ignores the fact if the animals were simply teachers anyone could have used any style for any element,
But theyre more likely to find the one related to their bending

>which they don't.
Iroh started to in ATLA

>Way to contradict the show.
I'm not. Try watching the show

>If they don't draw from
They don't literally draw from it as in they suddenly gained the ability to use water after observing the moon and ocean, that isn't what happened

>losing it shouldn't affect them
The Power of Water is powered by the moon and ocean spirits.


>Because it was granted by something completely unrelated to them?
Yes. The Lion Turtles just gave out the ability to manipulate the elements. The elements clearly have cosmic ties to things

>Never stated.
Not directly but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure it out

>Because she could bend it.
Wasn't bending. Remember she says she needs to learn waterbending which is why she wants a teacher

>segmented carapace
>multiple legs
>not a centipede
Find me a real life centipede that is a carbon copy of Koh

>the fact TLA spirits are drastically different from Korra's
As far as design goes which isn't true

>Except those spirits are in a gross minority
Clearly not

>and not half as dark as Koh
That is irrelevant

>And the wolf we see when Aang enters the spirit world, and the panda, and the owl, and the fish.
Like I said, except for Koh.

>So we should go with the evidence on hand,
Not necessarily, and we did. Koh

>Almost none of Korra's spirits are like Koh, in design
They are. Vaguely resemble real animals but clearly not animals

>nor personality
Irrelevant

>the fuck would you want thousands of Kohs running around the human world?
Youre changing the topic

>>92406604
Because Jinora was going to die and she didn't want that to happen.

>>92408268
1. Jinora was going to die because they were in the spirit world, something they shouldn't as Korra knew beforehand that Unalaq couldn't open the portals
2. Jinora vs. the entire fucking planet.

>>92406726
>No the show doesn't make that distinction actually.
It does. Both visually and via dialogue.

>Anyone who can bend is a bender.
Because in ATLA and TLOK times the term became genericized like kleenex is IRL

> And you don't need a martial art to do that.
You do, otherwise Katara and Aang never would have sought out teachers

>They might not have called it bending if that's what you mean, but it is the same thing.
It's not, the hunter is amazed at how Wan uses fire compared to how he and the hunters just threw it around

>Bending is the ability, not the style. If it was the bending you couldn't have different styles of the same bending.
It is a martial art and you can have multiple styles of each one. Just like IRL martial arts can and do have different styles

>The Airbenders from wans time could fly on clouds, which is more advanced than aangs time.
The cloud was just a visual thing to show them flying on air. It was somewhat like Aang's air scooter but likely a long forgotten ability

>Wan was also better before he used dragon style.
He wasn't.

>If the turtles don't give you skill, explain Wans skills before dragons.
What skill? He does about as much as Aang did when Aang first tried to learn fire and hurt Katara

>There is, Atla states multiple times that animals and nature taught them bending. Cave of two lovers, the Flame native americans, the watertribes are examples of this. No such thing in LoK.

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>>92406726
>>92408706
>There is, Atla states multiple times that animals and nature taught them bending.
Cave of two lovers, the Flame native americans, the watertribes are examples of this.
Yes, the martial arts

> No such thing in LoK.
There is, webm related

>>92408327
>1. Jinora was going to die because they were in the spirit world, something they shouldn't as Korra knew beforehand that Unalaq couldn't open the portals
Except she didn't. Unalaq told her he could open the other portal

>2. Jinora vs. the entire fucking planet
Korra isn't some emotionless grim dark person, she's going to pick Jinora and try to deal with the portals before Harmonic Convergence. Which she did and nearly succeeded

>>92406796
They learned how to bend, yes, but they already had the potential to be able to do so thanks to the lionturtles

>>92408827
>Unalaq told her he could open the other portal
Something clearly false as he needed her to open the portal, as she actually SAW in the Wan episodes, and as it doesn't even make sense that the portal wasn't already open in the first place.
And again, he could just open the portal again if they closed it, if Somehow he manages to know another way to open portals. There is no reason to go there.

>Korra isn't some emotionless grim dark person
I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense in-character to go for that decision, despite being retarded. I'm saying that this is STILL her fault. She had the choice not to condemn the planet and choses to do it.

>>92408706
Where does it ever make that distinction then?

That's what you say, i don't believe that at all and see no evidence to support your claim.

The Hunters used bending to hunt. Wan used bending to fight them and others. Wan also later learned a martial art as a way to further improve his bending.

Yes you can have different styles, because it's based on the same thing, that thing being bending.

They clearly fly on clouds, something Aang and other airbenders couldn't replicate as far as we know. The closest to it is Zaheer who did it without a cloud.

Yes he was. Wan took out the Chu's no problem with an impressive feat of fire bending. He was also able to fight off the other hunters and save the animal.

The skill Wan used to defeat the Chus. He was quite skilled without any formal training.

>>92408755
Which is where bending came from as they state aswell. The Watertribes learned to waterbend watching the moon push and pull the tides.

The webm doesn't show that they learned bending from animals but that they refined their bending watching animals. Which is a difference between the shows. It also doesn't take into account how Wan was so skilled with firebending without any training. He could only have gotten it from the lion turtle.

>>92408900
Atla doesn't agree with that. It makes no mention at all about some force outside of Nature and humans being involved with bending.

And again, it doesn't allow for wans high level of skill with bending prior to studying animals.