Daredevil S2 Punisher episodes > Daredevil S1 > Daredevil

Going by how shit Iron Fist was I'm afraid that they'll fuck up Defenders too.

God Daredevil was amazing for the most part, where did it all go wrong that the other ones only progressively got worse?

Did a showrunner change or something?

>>92371202
>where did it all go wrong that the other ones only progressively got worse?

Luke Cage was fine to watch but a total mess. How are we supposed to believe he couldn't take down 2 human crime lords THAT HE SEE ON A REGULAR BASIS in a matter of seconds? Then it jumped the shark with Diamondback and his goofy as fuck suit.

Jessica Jones started promising with a Neo-Noir feel, but then quickly dropped it. Was still fine to watch but would have been better if it kept it.

Iron Fist was boring as fuck. How are you going to make a series based on someone who is a kung fu master and have next to no fight scenes in the whole fucking thing? That is what killed it for me.

>>92371304
Luke Cage and Iron Fist also suffered from "Who the fuck is the villain?" syndrome. For LC about 1/3 is Cottonmouth, 1/3 is his cousin, and 1/3 was Diamondback. For IF you literally have no idea who the villain is until almost the end of the season.

>>92371184
1. JJ
2. DD S2-Punisher
3. DD S1
4. LC
5. DD S2-Elektra
6. IF

Is there a reason why Jessica is hated so much here?

>>92371184
Amazing Tier
>Iron Fist
Good Tier
>Daredevil Season 2 (only punisher)
Ok Tier
...
Bad Tier
>Daredevil Season 1
Shit Tier
>Luke Cage
>Jessica Jones

The poor man and the Jew don't deserve being on the Defenders

>>92372325
>Is there a reason why Jessica is hated so much here?

The actress is ugly

>>92372325
JJ is number 1 for me too. /co/ just seems to hate all women superheroes unless they are sexed up to hell and back

>>92372442
Here's your (You)

>>92372325
Because it's a dull shitshow with a subtlety of an atomic bomb and a godawful villain.

>>92372674
>LE EBIN MEME XD
Jesus Christ, Jessica Jones fans are the worst fanbase.

>>92371184
Daredevil season one > Daredevil season 2 = Luke Cage > shit > concentrated cancer > Jessica Jones = Iron Fist.

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>>92371184
Stop splitting seasons, you like season 2 or you don't
>I like only 10 min 40 secs of Punisher all the other is crap
REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>92372325
>>92372674
JJ was fine but they stretched the story too long. If it had had 8 episodes to tell the same things, it would've been perfect. It was unnecesarily padded.

I'd say DD S2's second half is a lot lower than Luke Cage, and even Jessica Jones. I enjoyed both (and imo, Luke Cage was great overall sans diamondback's shitty suit), but the second half of Daredevil's second season is outright disappointing.

>>92373411
People split them because there is a pretty solid dividing mark in the story, and after that dividing mark, Daredevil's plot thread gets really fucking boring, while the the shit you watched for gets relegated to a B plot.

>>92373411
I didn't enjoy BvS because Louis Lane was in it, i actually ignored every scene she was in it

Autistic nigger

>>92373483
>there is a pretty solid dividing mark in the story
All the seasons have that, in the season 1: daredevil part, Kingping part, the Urich and Karen part, the Foggy and Karen part and the stick part and nobody split that

>>92373483
It was nowhere near as disappointing as Jessica Jones, anon.
That show was pretty much disappointment of the year.

>>92373511
season 2 was weak compared with season 1 even with the Punisher, wich is the best of season 2, stop pretending

I'd honestly say all shows are good but flawed, albeit to different degrees.

Daredevil S1 suffers from slight pacing issues.
Jessica Jones has horrible action and the supporting characters (other than Luke) are awful.
Daredevil S2 has the same pacing issues and the Elektra episodes look bad compared to the ones with the Punisher.
Luke Cage has a terrible first episode and the last half is nowhere near as good as the first.
Iron Fist has action almost as bad as Jessica Jones, which is unforgivable given the motif.

But, other than that, I'd say they all excel in one way or another. If I had to rank them, I'd go with
Daredevil S1 > Luke Cage > Daredevil S2 > Iron Fist = Jessica Jones.

If they tone down on the bad supporting characters in Defenders it should end up at least okay, given that all the main characters can act at least decently. Yes, even Danny. He's a tad flat depending on the scene, but tends to build great chemistry with others.

>>92373458
as is the case of every show besides maybe DD S1.

>>92373644
>Jessica Jones has horrible supporting characters
>not liking twincest
>not liking Horrible Hogarth

>>92373588
Subplots happen at the same time. Season 2 of Daredevil had an arc that ended (And should've ended the season), and then continued with a new main arc that, honestly, was pretty sucky.
It's not the same. Both of those arcs had subplots happening in them as well.

>>92371184
Luke, Jessica and Danny will bring the overall quality of the show way down. Mostly Jessica.

>>92373692
>Subplots
Kingping have and entire chapter and like 30% of the script

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DDS1>DDS2 Punisher episodes>JJ>1st half of LK>DDS3 non-punisher episodes>IF>2nd half of LK
Now that I really think about it, most of the Netflix Marvel shows are really not very good.

>>92373743
So? His scenes with his girlfriend were subplots. His plan to take over Hell's kitchen is the main one. Both can happen at the same time.

>>92372325
I agree Jessica Jones was awesome. I loved how the entire season was spent directly fighting one ultra powerful villain. This made the ending really satisfying too. I like how Jessica's actions were proportional to villain and she knew trying to lock him up is bullshit.

>>92372325
>>92372674
>>92373458
If you can tell me a legitimate reason why Jessica was able to overcome Kilgrave's influence, I'll concede my argument that the entire show is garbage. And no, "because of extreme stress" is not an argument.

Aside from that, the series is plagued by a weak plot, a retarded, incompetent protagonist and a boring supporting cast. Jessica spends the entire season choosing not to kill, only to kill at the end. Why did she originally choose not to kill? What was her motivation?

And you can't tell me a show is good or "fine" when a super flight happens OFF FUCKING SCREEN. Jessica literally just jumps off screen, and that's her flying.

>>92373889
Well her original motivation to not kill Kilgrave is to bring him in to prove he exists to get Hope(and yes that name is horribly on the nose) of the hook for killing her parents.
Its why Hope kills herself so Jessica will just fucking kill him already.
Its a weak motivation but its there.

>>92373889
>Why did she originally choose not to kill? What was her motivation?
I hate Jessica Jones with a passion and you're completely retarded. The show chews absolutely everything for the moronic viewer.
You know what, I finally get why people like it. There's just enough idiots to think it's intelligent television.

>>92371202
Do you really think they keep the same showrunner for all these shows?

>>92373937
Not an argument.

>>92373940
I wish Scott Buck was a showrunner on every show.
I want you all bastards to suffer like I suffered.

>>92373812
The ending to Jessica Jones was bullshit. The entire idea was that she could've killed him but needed him to be brought to justice by the book SOMEHOW because the girl's life in prison was at stake. Then it turns out she is not saved, dies, and so there's no need to think of a clever way to bring Killgrave in, and they just kill him. It's like the writers thought of a great premise, didn't know how to solve it themselves, and simply undid it. Joke's on you, you already watched 10 episodes of this shit!
I know noir is all about not solving plots in happy, satisfying ways, but that was bullshit.

>>92373889
>If you can tell me a legitimate reason why Jessica was able to overcome Kilgrave's influence
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they explain Kilgrave's power as being he emits some sort of virus that makes people obey him, and Jessica's long-term exposure to it had caused her to build up an immunity

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>>92373458
I agree, some episodes felt like they needed the characters to act stupidly in order to keep the plot going

>>92372325
I can't believe you say the Jessica Jones is number one. You probably like shit shows like Supernatural and Glee.

The only thing that made JJ even watchable was David Tennant. Everything about the show was a train wreck.

Iron Fist in all of it's shit fight choreography was still more enjoyable than JJ. I finished IF in three days. It took me over three weeks to watch JJ because it was just that painful to watch.

>>92373685
I didn't say they were ALL bad.

>>92371184
Haven't watched all of them

Daredevil S2 Punisher eps>DD S1>DD S2 Elektra/Hand eps>>>>>>>>>Jessica Jones

>>92374046
Tennant was cringeworthy in it, though given the shitty material given to him I don't blame him.

>>92373612
I disagree. I wasn't expecting much, and ended up enjoying the show more than I thought I would.

Meanwhile, I had really high expectations for DD S2, and was let down hard after the first half wrapped up.

>>92374046
I agree with JJ being bad. It could've been a good story tweaking some of the elements present in it, however.
IF was a snoozefest. I still cannot finish it to this day because it's so boring from the get go. When you struggle with episode one that tells you something about a show.

>>92374121
Well, to each their own then.
I expected an engaging psychological thriller with a terrifying villain and got a pile of garbage with a villain who is only scary if you're an impressionable old woman.
DDs1 wasn't promising enough for me to let s2 ruin it.

>>92373889
Read the comic you /tv/ fag

>>92372325
Jones was a mess. The pacing was awful, the story was all over the place, character development kept going backwards, and scenes were so humble that they felt out of order at points.

First episode started off pretty good, but by episode 7 it was a mess.

>>92373970
I love that type of storytelling though. Where a person stuggles against the easy solution for so long and then when everything else is closed off for them they are forced into the 'easy' solution anyways. It puts the character through hell as everything they tried fails.

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>Daredevil Season 1
Has some pacing issues but overall is easily the best one, the action scenes are just fucking great.
>Jessica Jones
Main character is genuinely unlikable and is surrounded with easily the worst supporting cast of any of the netflix shows(besides Luke and Kilgrave who both carry the season). Kilgrave plot is horribly dragged out and makes Jessica just look like an idiot. I honestly cant even remember the sideplots.
>Daredevil Season 2
1st 4 episodes are absolute GOAT. Punisher plotline is great the whole way through and he without a doubt steals the show in every scene hes in. Show slows down immensely when he takes a backseat to Elektra and the Hand are reintroduced and they are extremely boring villains(more on this with IF)
>Luke Cage
Boring ass 1st episode, does not set the stage well at all. Picks up a lot from there and the 1st half is really good, Cottonmouth is a good villain and played by a great actor. Shows quality takes an absolute nosedive the moment Cottonmouth dies and Diamondback is easily the worst villain so far in any of these shows. 2nd half is nearly unwatchable.
>Ironfist
Boring main character and overall just a boring season. Ward and his dad somehow become the most enjoyable part of the entire season and I cared more about Wards story than I did about Danny. That said its got a pretty great cast of supporting characters which I think is the shows only strong point. The fight scenes are a god damn insult too the Ironfist brand and as I said with DD season 2 the main villain is the Hand who are somehow even more boring in this show than ever before.

>>92373993
>Kilgrave's power as being he emits some sort of virus that makes people obey him

then how come that Jessica's friend was able to resist Purple Man's control just by using headphones?

>>92371184
I actually liked Iron Fist more than Jessica Jones

>>92374246
I dunno, man. It felt cheap to me. Like if you were watching a murder mystery and the culprit turned out to be one of the suspect's distant cousin who had never appeared before and wasn't even hinted to have existed even, showing up in the last ten minutes.

Fuck The Bone Collector, is basically what I'm saying.

>>92374530
The virus makes you susceptible to his commands, but the commands still need to be heard. If you block sound you're safe. Seriously, it's not that hard.
Same reason when he was in a cage they could hear him, but he was isolated so the virus couldn't make them susceptible.

>>92374553
I think you have read too much capeshit. A good villain is one that hurts the protagganist in the process of being taken down, Jessica Jones and DD are worse off after the show than when they started. That's a good story

I quit caring about Daredevil S1 when he backflips over a bullet in the first fifteen minutes like Sportacus

>>92373729
I'm not looking forward to more of JJ's melancholy oh whoa is me preteen goth attitude. At least Luke is likeable and Danny is bearable at times. Punisher better show up at some point so DD has someone to argue philosophies with.

>>92371202
my theory is that the netflix shows are only as good as the villains or antagonists. If DD had anyone other than Fisk then LC would have beaten it by miles for its first season. S2 wasn't as good but Punisher saved it.

LC had some good villains that could have been done better, so that's where it fell flat.

It seems these shows need a specific villain to focus on. Shadowy or mysterious groups, gangs with multiple leaders who swap out places, cults with an ideology leading them rather than a lone figure with an ego, that just doesn't fly for these shows.

It needs a focus, all the other henchman are just for the grind and build up to the big bad. But you can't give us an army of ninjas without letting us see a glimpse of someone interesting towering over them.

>>92374679
Except Borergrave is anything but a good villain, so your point is wrong.

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>Elektra and the Hand are the worst part of Daredevil
>they go and make that shit the centerpiece of Defenders

>>92374679
>Jessica Jones and DD are worse off after the show than when they started.
Well, Killgrave sure is. Jessica is better, though. She didn't really give that much of a fuck about Hope and only helped her because Kilgrave was involved. In fact, she became )a bit) more altruistic than she was in the beginning. I really don't know what show you watched.

I enjoyed Season 2 of Daredevil as much as season 1 because of how the show handled Foggy and Karen in a believable manner and how every one of their grievances with Matt was valid and how Matt stood his ground on that.

Liked JJ too for how much of a reckless trainwreck JJ was and how much she projected herself onto Hope Hicks. The thing that ruins the show is that I knew that JJ was immune to Kilgrave's powers but the character didn't until over halfway through the show.

>>92374864
JJ is fucking wrecked after S1. Everything she did was futile and she failed the people she origionally tried to help. In fact, she failed everyone. That weighs heavily upon her

>>92374765
ok /co/ntrarian. Everyone agrees Purple Man was amazing

>>92374864
>She didn't really give that much of a fuck about Hope

She projected herself onto Hope. Hard. She cared about Hope more than she cared about herself or anyone else, and so tons of people died from her trying to save a girl who is exactly where JJ used to be.

>>92374973
>LE CONTRARIAN XD
Anyone with shit taste, maybe. Enjoy your unthreatening retard villain.

>>92374679
Let me guess, you're an idiot who thinks Signs is a well-written movie. Just off yourself.

>>92372640
That's really dumb.

>>92375128
So is the writing on the show.

>>92375008
Exactly. She wasn't trying to save Hope. She was trying to save herself, in a way. Her reasons to help her were purely egotistical. After the story she tries to help people. That's improvement for a hero.

>>92375070
Signs was terrible. I don't see how that compares to JJ in any way

>>92374973
>JJ is fucking wrecked after S1.
She's a actually happy she moved on her past trauma. Did you seriously watch the show?

>>92375258
debatable. She hates herself more now though.

>>92375283
If you like the story being retarded so it can be padded out and idiot villains, you should love Signs.
Jessica Jones was terrible too, by the way.

>>92375136
Nothing on JJ was even remotely as bad as Karen Page killing Wesley. Also no character in JJ was as bad as Karen Page. Stupid bitch got at least 3 people killed because of her dumb ass.

>>92375258
I wouldn't call that egotistical, not when she showed so much concern, but I like how the character was a hypocrite and her concern didn't extend to other victims.

>>92375345
Wesley was arrogant and misread Karen. Just because you liked Wesley doesn't mean that he should make it through the entire season. His death was an important milestone for both Karen and Fisk.

>>92375345
>Nothing on JJ was even remotely as bad as Karen Page killing Wesley
>main villain acting like a complete idiot all the time
>dumb bitch lawyer falling for the main villain's bullshit
>no one double-checking shit just in case, before letting his parents in

>no character in JJ was as bad as Karen Page.
Except literally all of them, especially the lame main villain.

>>92371184
I don't agree to split DDS2 by Punisher/Elektra
Early Elektra stuff was good. It was the Hand segments that are shit.

>>92375413
>Wesley was arrogant and misread Karen. Just because you liked Wesley doesn't mean that he should make it through the entire season. His death was an important milestone for both Karen and Fisk.
I call bullshit on him giving her access to a loaded gun. He was so careful before that. That's not careless. That's RETARDED.

It would have been more interesting if she died in that scene. Honestly the way they were setting her up in the show seemed to lead to her death because of how much she was sticking her nose in their business. It would have made Kingpin that much more of a threat. But then I guess comic book autists would complain that it wasn't Bullseye who did it.

>>92375594
>a threat
Netflix doesn't do threatening villains, it does either boring autistic horny manbaby villains or shitty ninjas villains.

>>92375662
>it does either boring autistic horny manbaby villains or shitty ninjas villains.

Harold Meachum
Cottonmouth
Diamondback
Black Mariah

>>92375778
Those are mostly shit, but point taken.

I give you Cottonmouth being threatening and add Madame Gao. Even if she had terrible luck to be on the worst show, she was at least actually menacing.

>>92374679
>A good villain is one that hurts the protagganist in the process of being taken down
No, fuck you. A good villain is the one who provides tension and suspense.
Buffalo Bill is amazing and he didn't affect Starling all that significantly. Nameless fuckboy from Hush pretty much ruined the deaf girl's life, killed all her friends and traumatized her for life, yet he's a boring piece of plank.

>>92375345
>Also no character in JJ was as bad as Karen Page
Except writing & performance wise she is the best female in the MCU, she is cute, funny, emotional, vulnerable, driven, vengeful all rolled in one without coming off like a flawless mary sue.
>Stupid bitch got at least 3 people killed because of her dumb ass.
Getting Urich to do his fucking job isn't getting him killed.

>>92375439
>main villain acting like a complete idiot all the time
Any of his dumb behavior can be explained by him being a manbaby who's literally used to being able to mindcontrol people to do what he wants. It's not that much of a stretch for him to be a "complete idiot" some of the time. He's arrogant, careless, and practically thinks he's invincible.
>dumb bitch lawyer falling for the main villain's bullshit
He mind controls and manipulates people all the time. That's LITERALLY all he's good at. I thought it was fine.
>no one double-checking shit just in case, before letting his parents in
Again, see above.

>Except literally all of them, especially the lame main villain.
Karen Page was so stubbornly retarded and persistent about bringing down that company that it made zero sense narratively that she could get away with being that reckless and not get killed. When Wesley had her, I kept thinking "Oh shit! Shit just got real! They got her!" and fully expected her to die there. What transpired was such I huge letdown I seriously considered no longer watching the show.

And it infuriated me that she got several people killed because of her careless actions but the narrative treated her like she's special and that none of it was her fault. Every character in that show sucked her dick so much. She was basically a Canon Sue.

>>92376086
>Except writing & performance wise she is the best female in the MCU, she is cute, funny, emotional, vulnerable, driven, vengeful all rolled in one without coming off like a flawless mary sue.
You have shit taste.

>tfw Shadow King is the best live-action villain
Any villain who can make fucking Aubrey Plaza scary is worth of respect

>>92376290
>any of his dumb behaviour can be explained by him being a complete fucking idiot
I know he's a retarded manchild, you retarded fuck. That only proves that he's a shitty villain and his scenes are idiotic.
>some of the time
Most of the time.

>dumb bitch believes a villain who is pretty much retarded
>I thought it was fine.
You have absolutely no standards then, which is expected from a Jessica Jones fan. It doesn't make him "good at manipulating people", it only proves that the show has idiotic writing.

>>92375345
>Stupid bitch got at least 3 people killed because of her dumb ass.
Just because a character does something that sets in motion a creative choice you don't agree with doesn't mean it makes that character a badly written one.

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When can we expect for Shades to get his real shades?

>>92376349
Exactly WHAT is technically inaccurate with what I stated?

>>92376290
But she didn't do anything reckless or careless.
She deserves to have her dick sucked because she was doing the morally right fucking thing. Doing thing right thing gets people killed sometimes, that does not fucking make her a bad character or a bad person.

>>92376532
You're arguing with a person who actually defends the Kilgrave escape scene. I don't think it's worth your time.

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>>92376532
> You will never suck Deborah Ann Woll's futanari cock...

>>92376471
Wouldn't he simply be Mob Cyclops then?

>>92375594
And Wesley misjudged and paid for his hubris. Everyone makes mistakes and Wesley tried to play at being something he clearly wasn't good at. You want to keep him alive? What purpose does that serve for writers?

Karen's a more complex character and her actions leading to others getting murdered is more interesting than her just dying and them having to introduce another character to fill her spot.

>>92376532
She was in over her depth and underestimated how bad things could get. She got more discrete in season 2 but even then she misjudged Frank Castle.

>breaking up daredevil S2 in 2 parts

No, why does everyone do this? No other series is broken up this way.

>>92376893
It has scenes with one specific character that are consistently great, and scenes with another specific character that are consistently shit.

It's not rocket science.

>>92376893
Because Daredevil S2 comprises two unconnected stories. One is a story about the Punisher, and the other is a story about some ninjas trying to stop other ninjas from achieving world domination through throwing stars of something.
All other shows tell a single plot, although some muddle it something fierce, like Luke Cage switching antagonists like crazy.

>>92376893
Because the season has 2 stories that have literally nothing to do with one another and theres a clear line in the sand in terms of quality.
>No other series is broken up this way
Completely false, most people break up Luke Cage between its 1st and 2nd half when Cottonmouth dies and is replaced by Diamondback.

>>92374739
>the netflix shows are only as good as the villains or antagonists
Does it mean Iron Fist would've been more tolerable had Scott Buck bothered to make a villain as good as Isaak?

>>92376985
The overarching plot connects them. People break them up to be nitpicky. The fact that Matt decides to defend Frank over Foggy's objections and then does none of the work and forces Foggy to do all of it because he's too busy doing crimefighting and does a shit job managing his time is perfectly relevant.

>>92371184
Why does Danny look like a Russian mafia boss in Daredevil?

>>92377068
>The overarching plot connects them
What plot would that be?

>>92371367
That and the poor pacing were my big issues with LC. IF wasn't as bad, but throwing the guy into a show to start filming 3 weeks after casting was total bullshit. RZA's episode going to the temple had the best fighting scenes of the whole show and that's because RZA is a hardcore kung fu movie fan to match up the style with the kung fu (or somewhat lack their of). The Going to China episode on the other hand was some of the weakest shit plot or fighting wise.

>>92372674
Here's a (you) for you too, faggot. Just because your waifu is the main character of a show makes said show automatically good or worth watching. It's garbage, it's lazy, it's filled with unanswered questions and it just exists for the sake of having a female in le defenders

fuck (you)

>>92377133
Everything Daredevil fought against in Season 1 came out on top. The Hand got what they wanted, Fisk got back in power quickly, people rejected Matt's ideology and Frank was more successful initially.

Ok, so I suppose that's an overarching theme, not plot, but they're all connected.

>>92371184

I agree with OPs rankings. Baffles me when I hear that people think Jessica Jones was better than Daredevil, or that Daredevil Season 2 was one of the bad ones.

>>92373511
there really was no fucking reason she should have been anywhere near the doomsday fight

>>92377225
The overarching theme and various characters' development does not mean there was one story. All that still happened in two successive, unrelated stories.
This is as if you were telling me that A Death in the Family and Under the Hood are one story because they feature Jason Todd's development from sidekick to villain.

>>92372325
This, for me.
Jessica Jones was really great and Killgrave is the best MCU villain to date. There were some kind slow bits but overall it felt like a solid journey and relied more on its story than "Jessica has powers to make things go her way" because she rarely even used her powers at all.

Luke Cage felt like I was LITERALLY watching a fucking BET series. I don't really care much about a black hero or anything, I'm a minority myself, but what the fuck was with the dull "nigga from da h00d chillin in BARBER SHOP" trope going on in it? Fucking boring shit. And he was too overpowered for all the fucking villains he was facing. Jessica had a reason she couldn't just go up to Killgrave and snap his ficking neck, she was psychologically scarred from him and he could take anyone near hostage in a fucking second. I DO wish that her killing him was a bit more than a literal neck twist though, but it was still a good leadup.

Luke? Nigga what are you doing? Nigga, just fuckin kill him. Holy shit nigga. Like, what the fuck? Nigga he's RIGHT THERE in the fucking barber shop, aint nobody going to rat on you, SNAP THE NIGGA NECK. Holy fuck, my dude.

Why does everyone love the boring piece of shit that is Kilgrave? I don't understand.

>>92371184
>Matt is facing the wrong way because he's blind

>>92371184
The shows are at their best when they play to the strengths of that particular franchise, and shit when they don't. It's why Iron Fist sucked so hard - you had a kung fu show with almost no kung fu in it.

>>92372640
That's objectively untrue.

>>92372325
I wouldn't go as far as to put it in first place, but it's definitely in the top three.

It wasn't a bad show, it had a great villain and I actually really like the lead actress' performance, but it was really poorly paced. It would have made more sense to pull what they did with Fisk in DD and have Killgrave spend the first couple episodes pulling the strings from behind the scenes instead of revealing that he was back in the first episode.

>>92378860
Only if you're blind. Get off of 4chan Matt Murdock.