Omniverse > Original series > Alien Force (first half)

>>92274128
I think is more
OS>Omniverse>AF(the highbreed was incredible, then everythen went downhill)>UA

The original was the best.

Every design after that felt like shit. And some of the decisions made were stupid

>Gwens magic became 'the spark'

>>92274128
When did this shit happen?

>>92274987
They had a crossover a while ago

>>92274941
Omniverse tried to retcon a lot of the stuff in AF and Au for respect, they even went with Ben 10.000 route at the end

>>92274128

The Secret Saturdays were so fucking cool.

Always felt like them and Generator Rex were always super underrated compared to Ben 10.

>>92275173
This is from SS?

>>92275295
Yes

>>92275270
Generator Rex was fucking awesome. Great villain, cool worldbuilding and interesting powers.

>>92274941
I think Omniverse used the setting to the fullest potential

>Bring back old villains in new ways
>brought back concepts in full force only brushed upon in the OS like alien fusions and alternate timelines
>Did tons of other cool shit like the multiple Ben fight
>Aliens like Bloxx and Juryrig
>Fixed the designs of the UAF aliens
>Had actual space adventures

>>92274128
Is the second half of Alien force when Kevin becomes a monster or....? Otherwise good taste op

>>92274128
It's okay. The only thing I'm worried about is this being cartoon network's future. I mean their hit lineup
>teen titans go
>ppg
>might magiswords
>Ben 10 reboot
These are all comedy 'action' shows that focus on comedy. I'm not saying every show has to be a story arc heavy show, but something funny

>>92275520
No that was UA. The second half of AF was Vilgax coming back, the primus stuff, and other dumb shit

>>92275520
>>92275837
Kevin always becomes a monster at some point.

>>92275230
Which was lame because Kai was worst girl

>>92276486
Ti be fair they obligated Derrick to go with Kai, he wanted Ester or Attea, but Kenny was already there, so it's Kai

>>92274941
Omniverse is better than the original in almost every single way. Even the artstyle. The only good thing about the original was Vilgax.

>>92274941
Yeah I didn't like how they made literally everything 'Aliens'

Kevin was better as a mutant, and Gwens powers were better off as magic.

>>92275270
I watched a few episodes of The Secret Saturdays and was unimpressed. The concept was cool and Andross could have been a cool villain, but the show itself always seemed underwhelming. It feels like a neat idea undone by mediocre execution.

>>92274128
Wait It got better? The art style put me off & I stopped watching afterwords. Also, Secret Saturdays?!

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>>92279376
Ben 10 and Secret Saturdays takes place in the same universe.

>>92279376
I remember there being a lot of threads here comparing Ben's thread to an apple and then it never really came up again

>>92274128
I wanted to like Alien Force but it was so ehhh. Between the series seemingly always taking place at night (until later), Kevin just suddenly having a boner for Gwen out of nowhere, and the writing for Ben feeling really inconsistent, it just felt weak.

Also, they fucked up Gwen's magic and made it generic purple energy constructs, the most boring power ever. Kevin's initial powers were shit, too.

>>92274128

>That Drew redesign

Who thought that was a good idea?

>>92274128
Literally the opposite. Omniverse was pure crap.

>>92274128

Alien Force was fine when it stuck to the main plot but the filler episodes were terrible. Ultimate Alien was the exact opposite.

the teenage one was best

>>92275520
That whole arc in UA was probably my favourite part of the whole show, it felt like it really just had the perfect balance of going to cool places and seeing cool things with the part they are freeing the prisoners, then things get taken up a level when they get the inifinity map pieces, and then we get to see a character we have grown attached to over the series become an antagonist where we just want things to turn out alright for him and not have him fight Ben, despite it being a pretty good fight.

Shame the rest of UA was kind of lame and took too long to build up to anything, the whole knight stuff just wasn't that interesting and I found it hard to care about that much.

>>92281292
Well atleast last arc of UA gave us a literal Lovecraftian monster

>>92281401
It was alright, but it just felt like it took ages to get there with so much of just the kights messing around.

Has Kevin showed up in the new series yet? Bro!Kevin was pretty great

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>national ratings are already an average below a million
Another dead CN reboot.

>>92279963
Nope

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I never really got into Ben 10 as a franchise, the Omnitrix was neat but the plots always felt a little shallow and Ben's personality put me off.

That said, Omniverse gave the world this guy, so I have to agree.

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Wait. Omniverse ends with Ben getting with THIS BITCH? She only saw Ben as a pet. Sure, Ken totally looks like there love child even with the original series, but really?

>>92283004
They shouldn't have rebooted it without the action

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>>92287430
Yes, Kenny and his sister were Ben and Kai's kids, but they seemed to have gotten rid of the sister.

>>92288605
I know they were Ben & Kai's kids, that much was obvious, but I always considered that episode an elseworlds story, alt. timeline stuff. Things make less sense now since the Sister wasn't shown, probably just somewhere else maybe?, but the real thing is, Kevin was a villain, what brought him back as a villian? Why not also bring her up from the start if they wanted to go that route, yes it was obviously rushed, but with what they did, they should have done it better...and this is me returning from looking at clips of their interaction mind you...

>>92288605
>Billy alien

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>>92290671
Fucking around with the timeline keeps changing the future. Also every so often Kevin will become evil for some reason or another and they'll just have to deal with it each time.

>>92288605
This is not his sister. It's a friend.

>>92279959
The only things I didn't like about omniverse were redesigns of drew and myaxx

>>92287430
>Ben gets with worst girl

He should have chosen Looma.

Am I the only person alive who genuinely enjoyed Ultimate Alien and what it added to the show?

>>92291526
Yes

>>92281292
Yeah, the best arcs of the whole thing were the map of infinity arc and the omniverse time travel/multiverse stuff. Althought the mutated Kevin arc wasn't that good, Ben was acting too out of character, he was too enthusiastic about killing his friend when everything he did was blow up part of a prison.

>>92274941
Which was weird because Magic was a thing in that universe.

The charms of Bezel were magic, for example.

>>92279270
>>92293308
Gwen still used actual magic from time to time in UAF, she just happened to have an alien form that was composed of mana, the stuff that powers magic.

AF S1-2>UA=AF S3>OS>>>>>>>>OV

>>92291526
No, I liked it too. Alien Force and Ultimate Alien were better than Omniverse by a wide margin.

>>92294427
Yeah, they didn't really retcon magic they just made Gwen be an alien made of magic. Which is pretty cool IMHO

The only reason I occasionally checked out AF when I was younger was because it was trying so hard to be edgy and "grow with the audience" that it was fascinating.

>That episode where Ben has to stop an escaped alien convict that escaped Area 51 but it turns out Area 51 is literally Guantanamo Bay and the military killed his family
what the fuck dude

Generator Rex was fascinating for similar reasons because it was so fucking GRIM.
>Everybody on the goddamn planet is infected with rogue nanomachines and at any point, people can violently mutate into violent, angry, superpowered monsters
>Rex is the only cure

>>92296006
What's wrong with Omniverse, honestly? Only reason I can imagine hating is if you REALLY liked AF and UA.

>>92274128
>horrible redesigns
>different actors
Why?

>>92296211
>Show has a different style
WEW

>>92296238
Why would that require new designs and actors?

>>92296270
I'll admit that Drew's ponytail and fuck-me eyes are a little much, but the rest is excusable at best and not really worth getting salty over at worst.

People can't get the original voice actors for stuff all the time.

>>92274128
So in the new kiddie Ben 10 Gwen is still an alien?

>>92296305
>Fuck-me eyes
I just realized that you can't really see it there.

My vague recollection is that she's wearing heavy eyeshadow and constantly has half-lidded eyes in Omniverse, whatever. Doesn't really matter.

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>>92274128
>Secret Saturdays
>a fucking Tetramand
>pre-transition Zack
>Asian letters on the channel logo

Wait what the hell?

>>92296333
Hasn't been touched on yet.

Gwen doesn't have magic at all, Lucky Girl is a movie character.

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>>92279296
>and Andross could have been a cool villain
His name is V. V. Argost, you plebeian.

>>92296648
Oh...

>>92296194
I liked AF and UA, but it's not just because of that.

>Art style went to complete shit.
Don't get me wrong DJW style is usually great but the particular look he went for here just was ugly and didn't work. I think something similar to his Mystery Incorporated look would've fit much better. Ben 10 was always about duller colors with not too many bright ones, Omniverse was too bright.

>Horrible redesigns everywhere
Basically every returning character/alien had a worse design compared to the previous shows. Big Chill, Vilgax(and I wasn't even a huge fan of his UAF look), Ben, Gwen, Kevin, Paradox, etc. The lack of pupils in every design besides Max(who only has pupils) certainly didn't make the designs any more appealing.

>retcons, retcons everywhere
This series had so many retcons it's not even funny. Like, I know UAF had its fair share but this series was far worse in that regard, and it even retconned some of the cooler stuff like the Plumber's Helpers

>Ben
This series completely ruined him from the development he got in UAF and for the worse. He acted like his 10 year old self despite being 16. On the topic of age, that's also a fuck up because he never turns 17 at any point when realistically he should have.

>Writing
It was extremely inconsistent. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it was meh, sometimes it was shit.

>music
Wasn't really good and the theme song was shit.

>>92296867
>this shit taste

>>92296648
>Lucky Girl is a movie character.
Wait, what?

Also, did anyone else think Gwen looked a little like Barbara?

>>92274128
Is this real?!?!?!

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>>92297298
That's not an argument anon.

>>92296006
No

>>92296867
Argit had a better design
Quite a few other side characters who were introduced in AF as well

>>92274128
I kinda hate how they've gone the way of adding dozens of new aliens with every show. I know it sells toys but it was way more fun when Ben had 10 choices and kinda had to use his head to overcome obstacles. Now if he has to burn a giant plant monster he has like 3 or 4 aliens that can get the job done.

Plus the original 10 plus Cannonbolt have objectively the coolest designs and powers

>>92297414
Yep, they end up going to a Cos-Con Cosplay convention, Gwen goes dressed up as Lucky Girl who is a movie character, Max goes dressed up as some knockoff Star Trek guy from "Star Slep".

https://kimcartoon.io/Cartoon/Ben-10-2016/Episode-15?id=72441

>>92297414
I mean in Omniverse, Gwen looks like a version of Barbara Gordon in Omniverse

>>92298677
Yes
>>92298753
>Argit had a better design
Ehh they're on-par I'd say.

>Quite a few other side characters who were introduced in AF as well
Not really

>>92296867
I don't agree on the art style. I can see where some people might not like it, but it's still better than the pallet swap / copy and paste design s UAF had going for it. The alien designs were pretty dull too.

I agree that it went a bit far with the retcons, but most of them were fixing the one UAF made for no reason. Most of them worked towards bringing the series back to resembling the original series, and got rid of a bunch of stuff that was pretty stupid in the first place (King Victor) so I give it a pass.

Plus it's not like the Plumber's helpers had a lot going for them in UAF anyway.

For your gripes with Ben's personality, you seem to forget that he went through plenty of inconsistent shifts after the first arc of Alien Force. He was acting like a 10 year old there too.

Lastly, say what you want about the music in OV, but it had a broader range of tones as opposed to UAF's silence and monotonous orchestral scores.

>>92274941
this this this

>>92299630
Jury rigg

>>92300157
>I don't agree on the art style. I can see where some people might not like it, but it's still better than the pallet swap / copy and paste design s UAF had going for it.
I really disagree. UAF's style still looked enough like the OS to pass as Ben 10. Omniverse was the antithesis to both the OS and UAF styles.

Like I said, something akin to Mystery Incorporated's style would have been a better fit

>The alien designs were pretty dull too.
Not really, there were maybe one or two that were dull

>but most of them were fixing the one UAF made for no reason.
That doesn't make them good.

>Most of them worked towards bringing the series back to resembling the original series,
Not really.

>and got rid of a bunch of stuff that was pretty stupid in the first place (King Victor) so I give it a pass.
Well I don't because I don think there really was a problem with that stuff.

>Plus it's not like the Plumber's helpers had a lot going for them in UAF anyway.
They had more going for them than what OV did

>For your gripes with Ben's personality, you seem to forget that he went through plenty of inconsistent shifts after the first arc of Alien Force.
He was just full of himself and a little arrogant at times because he saved the universe and everything. He was still mostly mature especially as it went on.

>He was acting like a 10 year old there too.
No, he just acted a little more full of himself, he wasn't literally regressed in mental maturity like OV Ben was.

>Lastly, say what you want about the music in OV, but it had a broader range of tones as opposed to UAF's silence and monotonous orchestral scores.
UAF's music was a better fit even if it wasn't that broad most of the time.

>>92300269
Bloxx

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Okay. Who the fuck are these 4?
& who here remembers Rocks & Squidstrictor?

>>92296867
>art style
flat disagreement, I'm fine with the goofier angle - not like it's GO, or anything

>horrible redesigns
ehhh, UA and AF did similar things except instead of redesign aliens they just got rid of old aliens for boring new ones that looked generic
>retcons everywhere
mostly for the better 2bh
>Ben's development ruined
He acts like a teenage bum given godlike power which is more believable to me than the "sometimes lazy preppy student" shit we got in UA/AF given what a brat he was in the OS
>writing
fair enough i guess but most of the episodes were about entirely different shit
>music
was fine, I guess?

>>92300944
Well I remember the giant flower appearing in one comercial It was kind of a parody of Audrey 2 in little shop of horrors.

>>92301615
>flat disagreement, I'm fine with the goofier angle - not like it's GO, or anything
No, it wasn't nt go, but it doesn't really gel with the previous shows including the OS.

>ehhh, UA and AF did similar things except instead of redesign aliens they just got rid of old aliens for boring new ones that looked generic
They didn't really though. AF and UA introduced new aliens first(some meh-ish and some cool, just like the OS) but they did bring back old aliens too.

>mostly for the better 2bh
Not really, it got rid of some cool things and retconned stuff for no real reason


>He acts like a teenage bum given godlike power which is more believable to me than
No, he acted like his 10 year old self despite being 16

> the "sometimes lazy preppy student" shit we got in UA/AF given what a brat he was in the OS
Anon, you need to rewatch both shows because Ben is far from "preppy"

Also, you really find it unbelievable that a 15/16 year old teen acts more mature than a 10 year old?

>but most of the episodes were about entirely different shit
And?


>was fine, I guess?
It was meh at best but the theme song was objectively shit. UAF knew the original song and lyrics couldn't be topped so they went for instrumental songs instead

>>92300944
A fucking Houdini alien?

>>92301966
Swampfire mostly replaced heatblast and chromastone mostly replaced diamondback, dude. This happened a few times where they just decided new aliens>old aliens

DJW made it a point to omit jetray because jetray sucked that badly

>theme song was objectively shit
it's just a children's TV show, man

>Ben acted 10 years old
he acted more believably immature given who he was at age 10, AF Ben was verging on too responsible. He's still clearly more moral and responsible than he used to be, it just feels like a more natural evolution given that he's still a teenager.

>>92301966
>it got rid of some cool things
the whole thing with kevin's dad was dumb and it retconned gwen being an alien 'energy being' into having legitimate magic practices again, which is a lot more fun than "gwen's a green lantern but pink"

>>92302235
>Swampfire mostly replaced heatblast and chromastone mostly replaced diamondback, dude.
Yes, your point? It's not like they were carbon copies. Hell, Chromastone's only resemblance to Diamondhead is that he's made of crystals.

> This happened a few times where they just decided new aliens>old aliens
No, they just decided to introduce a new gallery of aliens first and give them time to shine before bringing back some of the old ones

And like I said, old aliens still reappeared, like Cannonbolt, Diamondhead, Way Big, etc

>DJW made it a point to omit jetray because jetray sucked that badly
*because DJW didn't like Jetray

Jetray was lame though so I don't necessarily blame him too much

>it's just a children's TV show, man
And? The original series was a children's TV show but it had a rad theme song. Avatar: The Last Airbender was a children's TV show but it had a great intro and great music. Same goes for plenty of other cartoons.

"it's a children's TV show" is not an argument.

>he acted more believably immature given who he was at age 10,
Not really. 16 year olds tend to be more mature than they were when they were younger.

> AF Ben was verging on too responsible.
It was just around the right balance, especially once he became full of himself and his accomplishment

>He's still clearly more moral and responsible than he used to be, it just feels like a more natural evolution given that he's still a teenager.
Not really, it's a jarring sudden change that doesn't really feel right or make sense.

>>92302268
>the whole thing with kevin's dad was dumb
I didn't think it was that bad

>and it retconned gwen being an alien 'energy being' into having legitimate magic practices again,
You're mistaken, the only thing that happened around that was in AF when they revealed that Gwen was actually an alien made of magic. OV never really got rid of that. AF and UA still had Gwen use spells alongside the stuff AF introduced.

>>92302826
I keep accidentally getting kicked off this page when I'm about to post my reply by various devices, it's horrible

>The "point" is that they replaced these aliens from the OS that were fine and well designed for no reason other than toy points, and a lot of them were misses
>Jetray really was that bad, having a boring design but a useful enough powerset that Ben used him constantly
>OS's theme was memorable but it's not amazing score, honestly. The score of Ben 10 in general has always been something I ignored for the most part because it wasn't notable nor offensively bad.
>Omniverse Ben having "regressed to age 10" is disingenuous. He's less mature than UA, but I feel like he's more likable and more Ben-ish than the often serious, responsible, and almost superhero-ish UA version. Ben being a lazy dork who's more moral and responsible than his younger self but still wants to get the fuck out of work whenever possible feels more like an evolution of the original character. It also makes his partnership with Rook a lot better, as the well trained but ultimately normal Rook can play off of the occasionally childish but godly-powerful Ben.

>>92303671
>The "point" is that they replaced these aliens from the OS that were fine and well designed for no reason other than toy points,
And because they wanted to give Ben a new set of aliens. If he just had the old ones it'd be boring.

>and a lot of them were misses
Not really.
>Jetray really was that bad,
I don't disagree, he was a blandly designed alien.


>OS's theme was memorable but it's not amazing score, honestly. The score of Ben 10 in general has always been something I ignored for the most part because it wasn't notable nor offensively bad.
The OS music and them were pretty good, same with UAF for the most part. OV was the stinker especially in regards to the opening theme

>Omniverse Ben having "regressed to age 10" is disingenuous.
It's really not. Omniverse Ben acts like his 10/11 year old self.

>He's less mature than UA, but I feel like he's more likable and more Ben-ish than the often serious, responsible, and almost superhero-ish UA version.
That's where I really disagree, especially because UAF Ben still had fun and was a little irresponsible at times. He still felt like Ben, just a Ben that had had time to mature some ass a teenager.

>Ben being a lazy dork who's more moral and responsible than his younger self but still wants to get the fuck out of work whenever possible feels more like an evolution of the original character.
It really doesn't though. Maybe a 11-12 year old Ben, but not a 16 year old Ben.

Also, UAF Ben has those qualities more so than OV Ben, who was much more childish.

>It also makes his partnership with Rook a lot better, as the well trained but ultimately normal Rook can play off of the occasionally childish but godly-powerful Ben
That was another thing. Nothing against Rook (he's one of the few genuinely good things about OV) but he should not have been the one to be more mature of the two at that wide of a margin.

>>92304008
>Name one alien copycat from UA that was better than the original and I'll probably contest it
>OV's theme is literally fine, it's not oppressively bad by a large margin.
>You're objectively incorrect, they even appear in the same episodes sometimes. Ben at 16 wants to spend his time fucking around and having a good time, but he knows what he's doing a lot more than Ben and actually attempts to do the right thing when it does't convenience him and this is demonstrated by how thoroughly he trounces people he's had issues with in the past with the same aliens. Being immature at 16 is not something thoroughly unbelievable, it's the norm.
>implying that 16 year olds are by and large mature and responsible
>Rook dealing with a lazy dork given that level of power is a large part of why he's so entertaining

>>92304228
>Name one alien copycat from UA that was better than the original and I'll probably contest it
Echo Echo

>OV's theme is literally fine, it's not oppressively bad by a large margin.
It's worse than all 3 previous themes by a large margin

>You're objectively incorrect, they even appear in the same episodes sometimes.
And they act so similar it's hard to distinguish which one is supposed to be an older, more mature teenager and which one is still a kid

>Ben at 16 wants to spend his time fucking around and having a good time,
Except that doesn't make sense for his character at that age and doesn't fit with previous developments.

>but he knows what he's doing a lot more than Ben and actually attempts to do the right thing when it does't convenience him and this is demonstrated by how thoroughly he trounces people he's had issues with in the past with the same aliens.
Correct if describing UAF Ben, but not OV Ben.

>Being immature at 16 is not something thoroughly unbelievable, it's the norm.
It's unbelievable when he's like that all the time, as if he's been stuck as 10/11 year old. Nine times out of ten OV Ben is completely immature and acts exactly like his 10 year old self.

>implying that 16 year olds are by and large mature and responsible
They're by and large a lot more mature and responsible than they were when they were 10.

>Rook dealing with a lazy dork given that level of power is a large part of why he's so entertaining
It may be entertaining at times but that doesn't make it a good thing, it makes no sense for Ben to be that much of a lazy dork to the point where he is just a carbon copy of his 10 year old self

>>92304548
>is echo echo really all that better than ditto?
>it's really not, I can't even remember UA or AF's themes
>They act -similar- because they're the same person but there are clear differences in Ben's refusal to not get what he wants. You are not an adult at 16. Ben should be better, but he should still be himself.

You keep saying "he acts exactly like ten year old Ben" and it keeps reinforcing the idea that you didn't even watch it for me.

>>92274128
Zack needs to fix his hair. He looks like a mess.

>>92274128

This was a shit episode. They got The Secret Saturdays all wrong.

>>92304721
>is echo echo really all that better than ditto?
Yes because he's got more going for him than just duplication.

>it's really not, I can't even remember UA or AF's themes
That's on you buddy. I can remember all 4 themes, and OV is the shittiest of them

>They act -similar- because they're the same person but there are clear differences in Ben's refusal to not get what he wants.
No, they're extremely, extremely similar because the writers decided to write 16 year old Ben as 10 year old Ben.

>You are not an adult at 16. Ben should be better, but he should still be himself.
I never said he needed to be an adult. But what I'm saying is the way he's written and portrayed in OV makes no sense with how old he is. He should be building towards his adult self, not regressing to his kid self.

UAF Ben is much closet in that regard. Ben has mellowed out some but still likes to have fun and be lazy and enjoy Sumo Slammers and stuff

>You keep saying "he acts exactly like ten year old Ben" and it keeps reinforcing the idea that you didn't even watch it for me
Well your refusal to acknowledge that that's how he was written reinforces the idea that you didn't watch it for me.

>>92279963
this, I don't see why the these fuckers here sucks it's dick so hard when it was as mediocre as AF.

>>92307614
Reasoning: They retconned Ben's personality because they felt like having him be more immature was both more in-line with what the old series set up and more fun to play with.

They retconned a bunch of shit.

Also I watched a ton of OS when I was a kid and basically all of OV when they burned off episodes and I can say with rock-hard certainty he didn't act like he was ten in the slightest

>>92307772
>They retconned Ben's personality because they felt like having him be more immature was both more in-line with what the old series set up and more fun to play with.
That's some idiotic reasoning. Especially when you consider how religiously they worshipped the 10k future where Ben is mature while still having fun, which is in line with UAF rather than OV's portrayal.

>Also I watched a ton of OS when I was a kid and basically all of OV when they burned off episodes and I can say with rock-hard certainty he didn't act like he was ten in the slightest
Might want to consider a rewatch then

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>>92307854
>Especially when you consider how religiously they worshipped the 10k future where Ben is mature while still having fun, which is in line with UAF rather than OV's portrayal.

hmmm what's different about those two portrayals

could it be that Ben is like A DECADE OLDER

Considering how immature Ben was at 10, it felt perfectly in line with his character (especially in a series that's going in a more lighthearted direction than the previous one that veered into grim at times) to have him be a dorky slacker rather than a responsible guy with a varsity jacket and a preppy haircut who always does the right thing. Rook's partnership with Ben would be flat-out boring in this series if Ben were a responsible young adult. I still have no idea where you're getting "acts literally exactly like a ten year old" from - Ben still has moron moments because that makes the series more fun, but there are hardly any episodes where shit goes down in the first place because Ben is a petulant child having a mini-tantrum like in the OS. There's clear development that you're just refusing to see.

>>92274128
omni>ult>force
os and new show is shit

>>92307896
>could it be that Ben is like A DECADE OLDER
And he just suddenly became that one day, instead of slowly maturing into an adult like normal people do?

>Considering how immature Ben was at 10, it felt perfectly in line with his character (especially in a series that's going in a more lighthearted direction than the previous one that veered into grim at times) to have him be a dorky slacker rather than a responsible guy with a varsity jacket and a preppy haircut who always does the right thing.

It really doesn't, it makes far more sense for him to be how he was in UAF because that actually builds towards him being a more mature adult like we see in the 10k futures

>Rook's partnership with Ben would be flat-out boring in this series if Ben were a responsible young adult.
Then I'm sorry, but Rook can be cut and Gwen and Kevin can return then. Rook is a fun character, but if you think his existence is at a detriment to Ben maturing into an adult then he has to go.

>I still have no idea where you're getting "acts literally exactly like a ten year old" from
Then give the series a rewatch.

> - Ben still has moron moments because that makes the series more fun, but there are hardly any episodes where shit goes down in the first place because Ben is a petulant child having a mini-tantrum like in the OS.
There's plenty of episodes like that. Maybe not too many mini-tantrums but he still acts like a petulant child despite being 16

> There's clear development that you're just refusing to see.
There's no development there that isn't just along the lines of what was already established in OV.

You know what there's no point

You have this retarded-ass idea that Ben is literally the 10 year old Ben in OV and that's intrinsic to your argument, so there's no need to continue.

>There's plenty of episodes like that.
Name five.

>>92276927
Which is why they should've just left Ben 10000 as an alternate timeline. I mean seriously how is that timeline even still possible when Kevin's no longer evil?

And besides anything would be better to keep literal worst girl from coming back. Even fucking Julie was better than Kai.

>>92302235
The worst thing about AF/AU was that nearly every season Ben would start to mature and get more responsible, but then the reset button was hit so he would go back to fucking up and have to learn the exact same lesson he'd already learned repeatedly. So come Omniverse that reset button gets pounded again even harder, which was not a good way to start off a series.

>>92302268
Gwen still used actual spells in AF/AU though. The "Pink Lantern" shit was annoyingly common but it wasn't her entire powerset.

>>92300944
top right mustache alien looks like he could be fun

>>92300920
?

>>92308201
Not the guy that you were talking to.
Do you honestly have autism?

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>>92308201

If anything, Omniverse did the best bridge for "cocky Ben" to "mature Ben" than AF.

On the final episode Ben is there to whatch the universe beggining and the start of life itself, suddenly realizes how small he and Earth are compared to the entire universe and cant just stay on his city anymore - decides to go backpacking across the galaxy with Rook, Gwen and Kevin, to meet/learn as many things and races as possible. Ben is going to spend some years on space, and go back to earth closer to his Ben 10000 phase.

It felt like a teenager slowly building up to a broarder world and realizing that he has to change, and this WITHOUT sacrificing what makes the character enjoyable to whatch. Because seriously, Ben on AF was the most boring protagonist of the franchine and had an unnatural development, maybe only suprassed by Gwen from AF, in Omniverse he actualy acts like a 16 years old hero.

Hell, even some writters of AF and UA - that later went to work on Omniverse - hated some of the stuff that they made there, like Agregor.

>>92296867
>Art style went to complete shit.
How can you say that when AF/UA had some of the worst and blandest designs in the series? I'll admit that the original series had by far the best alien design but Omniverse was a far better replacement than the other shows.

>Horrible redesigns everywhere
See above, AF/UA took all the cool designs from the OS and made them extremely bland.

>rectons, retcons everywhere
A retcon of a retcon you mean. AF/UA had way more lore rape than Omniverse, Omniverse just fixed the fuckups that AF/UA made.

>Ben
He was more of a middleground for the childish Ben in OS and no fun allowed Ben in AF/UA.

>Writing
As opposed to AF/UA which was always shit?

>Music
I literally can't remember any of the music from anything but the OS but I doubt it's any worse than AF/UA.

>>92279963
crap taste

>>92279296
I'll agree with you that Secret Saturdays and Generator Rex had great concepts that were never fully utilized. It's a shame they didn't fully delve into the whole cryptid and nanomachine thing.

>>92300920
Having to fix all of the stupid shit UAF added is on them, not Omniverse

>>92304548
>Echo Echo
Power-wise maybe since he's just Ditto but with an extra sound power but Ditto was a lot more interesting from a design standpoint and you can't beat an alien voiced by Rob Paulsen.

>>92283004
Eh, they rebooted the show since Ben 10 was more popular overseas. How it does there, will determine how long the new series last.

were the toys any good? We know the cartoons aint

>>92300944
Where is this from?

>>92293308
Was Charm caster also an energy being?

>>92300944
To left and bottom two are from bumpers, the top right is an official fan-made one from a "make your own alien" CN did in another country.

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>>92324061
No

>>92324061
No, she was from a colony of spellcasters in a different dimension.

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>>92300944
one is a contest winner and the others are from bumpers

>>92307772
>They retconned Ben's personality because they felt like having him be more immature was both more in-line with what the old series set up and more fun to play with.
Ben was serious in the beginning of UAF because he thought his grandpa was dead and was dealing with an alien invasion. He lightened up as time passed until we got to Omniverse.

>>92324297
Huh.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x407rfq

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Your girl's back, /co/.

>>92326908
What episode?

>>92309655
Apparently the Ken 10 timeline we saw in the OS was an alternate timeline.

That, or Kevin went ape shit AGAIN, the shit we saw happened, and then he came back and got pussy whipped by Gwen.

>>92320825
All the AF aliens were just "these two combined".

Swampfire was literally Heatblast combined with Wildvine.

>>92324340
He didn't lighten up, he literally went full retard after stopping the DNAliens.

It'd have been one thing if he got a bit cocky, but for whatever reason, the third season of AF and on had Ben become a full on moron who was even more reckless than his kid self ever had been.

>>92328043
>All the AF aliens were just "these two combined".
*a couple AF aliens were

>>92328131
No, a good portion of them were. Things like Echo Echo were just Ditto combined with Upgrade. Jetray was basically Ripjaws and Eye Guy. They felt pretty uninspired compared to the original aliens, and it didn't help when the whole Ultimate Alien bullshit came along.

>>92274128
ben10 is and will always be complete garbage. shame on you for liking it

>>92329601
Were Big Chill and Alien X based on any previous Aliens?

>>92326908
Why is Frightwig a Loli?

>>92328131
I wouldn't say they're straight up combination of some aliens outside of Swampfire, but most of them had powers extremely similar to the original aliens but with extra powers
>Swampfire is plant Heatblast
>Big Chill is Ghostfreak with ice powers
>Humongousaur is a dinosaur Way Big
>Chromastone is Diamonhead with blast powes
>Jet Ray is a flying XLR8
>Echo Echo is Ditto with sound powers
>Brainstorm is crab Grey Matter
And so on and so on.

>>92329601
>No, a good portion of them were.
No, just a couple were

> Things like Echo Echo were just Ditto combined with Upgrade.
What? Since when did Echo Echo have any of Upgrade's powers? Echo Echo was just a ditto except actually useful.

> Jetray was basically Ripjaws and Eye Guy.
Only in the vaguest sense possible

>They felt pretty uninspired compared to the original aliens,
Not really, If you want uninspired aliens look at Omniverse.

>and it didn't help when the whole Ultimate Alien bullshit came along.
That was fun and fine.

>>92330110
>but most of them had powers extremely similar to the original aliens but with extra powers
Well some did, some didnt.like Chromastone, he is crystalline but only has energy powers.

Humongosaur is similar to way big but not nearly as large

>>92330230
Echo Echo was shit, and robotic like Upgrade. Face it, a good number of the AF shitters were just pale imitations of the original aliens.

Omniverse actually had plenty of inspired aliens. And no, Ultimates were fucking uninspired and dumb, even the show realized this and wrote the majority of them off with that whole "they became alive" shit.

>>92330312
>Echo Echo was shit,
He wasnt bad at all, and far better than Ditto because he actually had more going for him than "he can Clone himself". He had the added bonus of his clones not being directly linked so that they can act independently without something that happens to one of them affecting the others

>and robotic like Upgrade.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You can't seriously think that that's a serious argument for saying Echo Echo is partially based on Upgrade.

And actually, Echo Echo isn't a robot at all, he's a silicon-based lifeforms.

>Face it, a good number of the AF shitters were just pale imitations of the original aliens.
Face it, no they weren't.

Rath, Big Chill, Lodestar, Swampfire, Echo Echo, Goop, Brainstorm, Humongosaur, Chromastone, and Spider Monkey were fine
>Omniverse actually had plenty of inspired aliens.

And a lot more that were uninspired.

>And no, Ultimates were fucking uninspired and dumb,
They were fun and fine

>>92330562
Spidermonkey was shit and had the worse voice.

>fun and fine
No, they were shit and uninspired. Literally toy material and nothing else. The whole point of the watch was ALIENS, not super saiyan style power up bullshit unoriginality.

>omniverse was uninspired
Don't make me laugh, kid.

>>92330230
>omniverse had uninspired aliens
>A tiny dung-beetle esque alien that rolls up balls of pure plasma
>A living, craggy planet that controls gravity
>A slick, stretchy cyclops with organic jacks for his extremities and complete power over energy
>A monster who's stomach is effectively a chemical mixing chamber with the knowledge to create specialized gasses
>A perpetually helmeted fatty weirdo whose only power is to be so hideous he can induce heart attacks
>A literally useless ugly, smelly blob who also happens to be literally completely indestructible

omniverse had a few literal joke aliens like pesky dust and walkatrout but literally nothing is as bad as fasttrack and jetray lmao, what awful awful designs

>>92297826
I feel like Orginal kid Ben could whoop all the other Bens because he had it the hardest
>Only had 10 minutes
>Omnitrix was always random
>He only had 10 aliens for a majority of the show
>Still kicked ass

>>92274128
I can agree with this.

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>>92297808
Yep. They ruined Drew.

Though it was funny seeing Ben all but visibly popping boners whenever he saw her.

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>>92308090
>original ben10
>shit

>>92330614
>Spidermonkey was shit and had the worse voice.
He was no worse than Stinkfly in terms of annoying voice

>No, they were shit and uninspired.
They were fun and fine

>Literally toy material and nothing else.
All of the aliens were when you boil it down. Every alien in every show.

>The whole point of the watch was ALIENS, not super saiyan style power up bullshit
And you still got aliens.

> unoriginality.
Not to the series.

>Don't make me laugh, kid.
Watch out, we got a badass over here. Come back when you're not being an edgy underage faggot.

>>92330658
>but literally nothing is as bad as fasttrack and jetray lmao,
Bloxx
Kickin Hawk

>>92330837
Don't even try to argue that those are anywhere near as bad as "man who runs fast" and "generic flying bat-man who does everything"

kickin' hawk is a professional bird wrestler and yeah, bloxx is legos but the silliness of "literally legos" gels fine with the lighter mood omniverse has. A living construct that can build itself into other constructs is a fun idea.

>>92330837
What's wrong with Bloxx?

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>>92325623
>That slap
Also a little weird that Ben and Gwen are kids but the DNAliens are around

>>92330910
>Don't even try to argue that those are anywhere near as bad as "man who runs fast" and "generic flying bat-man who does everything"
I will certainly argue that anthropomorphic chicken+Hawk and literally Legos are just as bad, if not worse.

>kickin' hawk is a professional bird wrestler
I was unaware that this series was about birds. I thought it was about aliens

> and yeah, bloxx is legos but the silliness of "literally legos" gels fine with the lighter mood omniverse has.
But it doesn't gel well with the universe or its "Ben 10" in general.

I can't believe your actually defending one of the stupidest aliens ever made in the franchise

> A living construct that can build itself into other constructs is a fun idea.
There are ways of doing that that aren't retarded and dumb. Like how Ship can recreate stuff
>>92331086
He's a literal fucking toy M8. You don't see the problem with that? Yes, Ben 10 has always been about selling toys but at least the previous 3 shows actually put effort into making their designs be aliens and not just dumb toys.

Hell, Bloxx was almost a great design, I saw some concept art of other designs for him that would've been a billion times better

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>>92329833
Why not?

>>92297826
This picture is what I honestly wish Omniverse had been. Teen Ben working together with his 10 year old self with Time shenanigans.
I feel like it could have been a decent dynamic

>>92275173
There was also a mention of Galvan Prime from a one of the scientist according to the wiki.
I think wanted posters of a Ben 10 villain as well. might have been the forever knights.

>>92331221
That would've been really cool, and they could even bring Paradox in every so often(if not more) for shenanigans.

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>>92331173
>I though it was about aliens.
>alien that's literally a bedsheet ghost
>alien that's a dinosaur
>alien that's hulk hogan as a tiger
>alien that's an anthropomorphic anglerfish
>alien that's an anthropomorphic insect
>alien that's a werewolf
>alien that's a mummy
>alien that's a cartoon demon
>alien that's a turtle
>alien that's a spider/monkey hybrid
>alien that's an anthro chameleon with cloaking

>alien that's a bird with blades on its arms and a martial arts theme
OVER THE LINE

>>92331221
I like what we got.

>>92331278
>alien that's a bird with blades on its arms and a martial arts theme
>OVER THE LINE
The problem is that it's literally just a bird with blades on its arms. Almost every single other alien only somewhat resembles earth creatures, and the ones that are closer to earth creatures still have unique things to differentiate them.

>>92331278
I don't mind what we got either but all the retconning bothered me to hell.
Though I find the episode where they poked fun at it pretty funny pretty great.

>>92331350
ripjaws is pretty straight-up an anthropomorphic popular culture anglerfish. Humongosaur is an anthropomorphic dinosaur. Rath is a tiger.

>>92330837
>>92331173
Why don't you like Bloxx? I thought autists like you were supposed to like LEGO

>>92332659
>Why don't you like Bloxx?
Literal toy

> I thought autists like you were supposed to like LEGO
Nice ad hominem there bud.

>>92330658
Wasn't Pesky dust supposed to be secretly op with its morpheus powers?

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>>92332659
>I thought autists like you were supposed to like LEGO

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forgot who made this template. edited for SFW. do your best/worst

>>92296133
generator rex could have been so good if they had executed it better
>tfw all those providence agents deaths

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>>92334185
Such is life as a mook.

>at some point in his life ben laid a bunch of eggs

>>92275270
Generator Rex was obviously what Ben 10 should have been but even better.

>>92334285
what could have been done to improve it? I keep trying to think about it and the only thing that comes to my mind is that the tone of the series kept changing but I know there's more than just that

>>92334378
Ending was rushed.
Air schedule was fucked.

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>>92274128

The original series was held back for the sole reason that Ben and Gwen were the biggest shit stains on the planet. Even though kids really are little devils, it doesn't make it entertaining.

>>92300157
>Most of them worked towards bringing the series back to resembling the original series

Problem is, I wasn't all that fond of the original series. It was interesting enough to not change the channel but I never followed it religiously. Plus original loli Gwen is best Gwen.

>>92330837
>Watch out, we got a badass over here. Come back when you're not being an edgy underage faggot.

Says the faggot defending AUF.
Don't. Make. Me. Laugh.

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>>92334214
Reminds me of how Star Wars treated its mooks

>>92274199
This.
OG series was god-tier
Omniverse came close, but the character redesigns and overused characters were a drag.
Alien force up to season 3 had amazing character development and all then they threw it in the fucking trash with season 3
Ultimate alien has the ego problem too, but they toned it down a little. aliens were cool tho.

the new remake of the original is the worst show i've ever seen in my entire life, and i'm including the new PPG and scooby doo remakes.

>>92335387
>loli gwen is best gwen
with all due respect:
fuuuuuck off

>>92275327
yeah, it's on my watchlist. i used to watch it but then they fucked up the airing order, so i gave up and now have to watch it properly
>>92296867
the big chill change really threw me off, max was okay, sounded the same and all.
but yeah, any developement ben gained in any series was discarded and the theme song was god awful
>>92302826
swampfire and chromastone were great, then diamondhead got a power bump out of nowhere

omniverse ben stopped learning lessons from previous incidents, unlike his predecessors. he also managed to UNLEARN what he learnt
>>92335882
alien force gwen is best gwen, original loli gwen comes after, the rest is trash

>>92335977
omniverse ben is different from uaf ben because he's retconned, that's it

fully developed serious superhero ben wouldn't work in the tone of omniverse

he's not fully regressed, that's pretty silly to try and claim

also omniverse gwen is fine

>>92336046
I guess you have a point about serious ben not fitting in omniverse's tone.
but i still disagree with the gwen thing. she's devolved into a stereotypical college slut type. and this is even lampshaded by ben, when he whispers to kevin that college has "had that kind of effect on her".
her anodite form is shit, and not the all powerful, ultimate alien beating one either -
remember that time she fought off all the ultimate aliens to save ben? and that was simply a projection of her too, not irl

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>>92336075
is fine

>>92283004
this show's life will be determined by it's ratings in Latin America and Europe and maybe the toy sales, not the US ratings

>>92307743
>>92307743

Garbage taste detected
proceed to stab yourself in the eyeball, till you reach the brain

>>92288537
it still has more action than TTG or nuPPG

Omniverse is the only one I really enjoyed for more reasons other than 'this looks cool'. The original had some awesome alien designs, but I didn't care for the writing really.

>>92296006
kill yourself

>>92291526
>what it added to the show
Literally nothing

>>92326908
why

>>92331173
>He's a literal fucking toy M8. You don't see the problem with that?

That's not an argument