>says western animation is shit >proceeds to make the same

Sounds like a massive weeb and with what he's done this season with Ashi I'm pretty sure he is

I doubt he said that though because he'd be shitting on a lot of his friends

>>92198359
Why does everyone keep saying animation is shit nowadays? Yeah, sure, there are shitty ass reboots and other shows no one likes but almost every cartoon is unique and interesting nowadays. Like Gumball or Steven Universe are both unique and are pretty ambitious yet no one cares and everyone is still unsatisfied. Even Samurai Jack comes along and it's honestly one of the best things this decade yet everybody hates it only because the pacing was off for one episode and two characters kissed. You guys will never be satisfied. Standards are too damn high. Just relax and enjoy stuff for once. Not everything has to be the magnum opus of television or animation.

>>92199431
Gumball and Steven Universe are literal dogshit.
And so is the new Samurai Jack season.

You just have shit taste.

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>>92198359
>western animation is shit

eastern animation is also shit so we have a tie

>>92200055
Eastern animation is GOAT, shitposter.

>>92200066
Post anything good that was made in last 5 years

>>92198359
He wants to relive his childhood crush via his characters

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>>92200066
>Industry so dead that they need to churn out moeshit so NEETS and otakus will buy them to keep the industry afloat

>>92198359
>>92199431
I'm pretty sure Genndy meant the literal animation. He was always all stylistic and artsy fartsy with his work, while most modern cartoons are painful homogenized in that department. I don't think he gives much of a shit about story, as long as it enables interesting animation.

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>>92203100
> homogenized

>>92200372
Oreimo

>>92203135
/thread

>>92203100
This is exactly like Bryke. Amazing art direction, story sucks because they just don't really care.

>>92203133
You think you're funny don't you?
Alright you did get me to chuckle

>>92203100
The art in nuSJ is a significant step down from the original, though.

>>92203188
It's the same but cleaner.

>>92203160

I don't hate the relationship but Ashi has overly dominated the whole season. The Scotsman showed up for like two seconds and he disappeared for weeks on end to do fuck all. Da Sam oo rai was kind of sad since he never developed much in the interim. All of those plot threads basically got cut and Ashi is the thing with the focus.

Shit, if you cut like a minute of Ashi stuff from each episode and gave the Scotsman more time as a B story you could have your cake and eat it too. But it literally has to be all Ashi every episode.

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If you think the new Samurai Jack season is shit then you're a fucking retard. I can understand seeing a steady decrease in quality, but oh my God.

Reminder that people on this board actually criticized Episode 2.

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>>92203188
I dunno, looks to me like he's still doing a lot of fun things, And his scenery porn is still up there
>>92203216
I would argue it's literally less rounded, with more sharp angles, I imagine to reflect the more DARK'N GRITTY atmosphere
>>92203267
Well animation errors in a show that emphasizes that aspect is pretty embarassing

>>92203253
Well she's essentially a nobody that's supposed to be a major aspect in Jack's life, so they would logically have to dedicate as much time to her as possible.
That said, I still don't care for her implementation. And I do hate the relationship.

>>92202930
So like always? Anime has always been shit that is why you turn manga where you find most of good shit.
And moeshit is pretty much dead nowdays too, isekai big next thing

>>92203372
>hating an episode for animation errors when you couldn't even see them unless someone pointed them out for you

Wow, Incredible.

>>92199474
What do you watch anon, enlighten me.

>>92203100
I find animation fine as it is. I just want more variety in style like Samurai Jack. I don't like my animation smooth like Disney.

>>92203487
The boots were pretty obvious. They clearly show him losing them, then they rematerialize for a couple scenes then vanish again without explanation

>>92200055
Miyazaki pls only thing you were right was that too much anime isnt good thing.

>>92203267
If you think it's shit, you are retarded, but if you think it's anywhere near 10/10 or 8/10 for that matter you are also retarded.

it's just ranges from good to meh

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>>92203487
>Not priding your work enough to make sure it holds up under scrutiny
What kind of artist are you?

>>92203480
>isekai
>not homobait sports kino

>>92203631
Please direct me to a cartoon that has no animation errors. I'd love to watch it.

>>92203631
He was pretty happy he got to do it.

>>92203553
The explanation is that the animation checkers were too busy looking at the explosion in the background to notice it.

>>92203622
It's still miles better than any other cartoon in the last 7 years. Genndy is working on a fucking TOONAMI budget.

>>92203267
>Reminder that people on this board actually criticized Episode 2.
The Aku scene was shit.

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>>92203731
Not really

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>>92203732
>t. minority that didn't like the Aku scene

Alright friend, nobody cares.

>>92203731
>It's still miles better than any other cartoon in the last 7 years.
Given how far cartoons have fallen since the early 2000s, that's an extremely low standard to meet.

>>92203766
It was literally terrible in every way. Terrible script, terrible animation, terrible voice acting. Anyone who defends it just wants there to be at least one 10/10 episode in this season.

>>92199431
>Why does everyone keep saying animation is shit nowadays?

/co/ntrarianism.

They're running around with nostalgia-polished ideas of what old Thunder Cats and TMNT were like (protip: they were kinda shit), and in their eyes every modern cartoon is a SJW tumblr sapiosexual metrogendered strawman preachfest. Nothing can shake these beliefs, even when they are shown that they're 100% objectively wrong, because they don't just believe - they WANT to believe.

They want to be pissed at stuff and raise a stink. It's all they have.

>>92203731
>Genndy is working on a fucking TOONAMI budget.
That's right, the BUDGET is the problem. Not the repeatedly shitty writing.

>>92203858
>They're running around with nostalgia-polished ideas of what old Thunder Cats and TMNT were like
No, we're running around rewatching Jack, ATLA, Teen Titans, and TMNT 2003 (not the shitty original), and wondering what the fuck happened to cartoons since that era.

>>92203886
>Teen Titans, and TMNT 2003

Mediocre at best.

Couldn't you at least bring up something really good, like Dexter's Lab or Gargoyles?

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>>92203188
>step down from the original

are you retarded? It's improoved

>>92203886
SJ and ATLA are the only exceptional shows in that lineup.

I'd like a cool action series on the level of ATLA, but I'm fine with the stuff we've got. You guys are so enamored with the past that you can't appreciate the present.

ATLA literally had the exact problem as GF, actually. They both had somewhat lackluster endings. And believe me, people gave it shit when it was running, Back then the 'golden age of cartoons' was a decade earlier too.

>>92203480
>isekai
That's an even bigger cancer.

>>92204012
I thought were were talking about animation, not story content

>>92200372
Shinsekai Yori was made exactly five years ago, IIRC.

Then you got stuff in the current and previous seasons, like LWA, Konosuba, Uchouten Kazoku, etc.

>>92203858
>They're running around with nostalgia-polished ideas of what old Thunder Cats and TMNT were like (protip: they were kinda shit)
They were phenomenally shit, but that doesn't change the horrendous disappointments their reboots were. Thundercats was legit awful just as a standalone show.
Animation was still good though.

>>92203919
Those two are good, but the two I named are great. Quite a big difference there.
>>92204012
TT > both ATLA and SJ IMO. Haven't rewatched TMNT 2003 recently, but IIRC same goes there.

Cartoons are in a pretty good spot now.

If you want a real dark age then try 2005-2009.

>>92198359

>[CITATION NEEDED]

>>92204215
I'd take a dark age with actual hope for something better (and the tail end of many good cartoons to boot) versus the hopeless wasteland we have now, with cartoons ranging from mediocre to terrible and no better cartoons likely to be made for years if not decades.

>>92204259
He said he doesn't like where the animation industry is at right now in the Q&A before the first episode, newfriend.

>>92203639
Both of those. I did hope fujos would stay in their own little place but no. And now there is people who think that japan progressive because of that one anime

>>92204052
That is my point and that will probably kill actually fantasy series for few years

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>>92204186
>TT > both ATLA and SJ IMO. Haven't rewatched TMNT 2003 recently, but IIRC same goes there.

I'm just going to accept that our opinions are completely incompatible and that there's no point in arguing.

For me, that statement seems so wrong I almost can't believe anyone would be so bold as to write it down.

>>92204292
>a dark age with actual hope for something better
No such thing. There was no hope at all back in the late-00s.

>>92199431
Only the first 3 seasons of Regular Show, Adventure Time, maybe Steven Universe, and the entirety of Gumball were good. Although i admit i haven't been following Gumball recently.

Anything else is dogshit. We've entered another dark age of animation, and Genndy fucked it up even more.

>>92203267

People were screaming "SAMURAI JACK IS RUINED" the second he killed a girl. There's no pleasing any of the retarded shitposters.

>>92204394
TT has the best characterization of any cartoon I've ever seen by far, and that is the most important thing for me. It also has very strong storylines for a cartoon, only second to ATLA Book 2 probably.

>>92204510
Literally nobody said this and 90% of /co/ absolutely loved episode 2 and 1, shut the fuck up, faggot.

>>92204575

So this is power of falseflagging.

>>92204596
Link me to archives of people shitting on episode 2.

>>92204616
So you're wilfully delusional. What's that got to do with anything?

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>>92204557
>TT has the best characterization of any cartoon I've ever seen by far

Again, I'm flabbergasted. I honestly can't understand why you'd think this. I mean, I watched the show, and I liked it, but I don't see how anyone anywhere could come to this conclusion.

Not even mad, just incredibly confused. I feel like I must have missed a season or something.

>>92199431
Yeah, when you compare American animation to anything else done in North America, you can say, "B-but Steven Universe is pretty ambitious!".

When you compare that to stuff from Europe and Japan, suddenly the bar falls.

When you compare it to actual live-action works, suddenly something like Roseanne comes across as fucking Emmy-award-winning when put up against "ambitious" American toons. The fact is, the majority of animation seems to lack a lot of basic storytelling elements which is why it's viewed so pitifully by other people.

They excuse it because "it's for kids!" even though children's literature is far more ambitious and sometimes even better written.
People who watch live-action never take it seriously unless it's South Park because let's face it, we don't even have a single show worthy of comparing to something viewed highly like Breaking Bad.
We grade our things our a curve because of how low the standard is for animation. It's why shit like Space Jam is viewed as a "pretty good kids film" because what the fuck else are they gonna watch? Who cares if it's a good film, it's a good film ~for kids~!

It's bad enough we have small studios trying to take advantage of the kiddy market by making crap like The Nut Job, but when artists like Gennedy and Rebecca Sugar think they're somehow progressing the medium even though their stories are simplistic, cliche, and often riddled with pacing issues, you start to realize that these aren't artists passionate about their medium, they're people who literally can't hack it in the live action industry.

Just look at the amount of Pixar directors who tried to make a live-action movie, failed, and had to come back to animation. Brad Bird being one of them. Mike Judge seems to be one of the few who can tell a good story regardless of medium and can jump back and forth between the two without an issue.

>>92204557
Have you just not watched a lot of cartoons?

>>92204510
Actually the point people really started to sour was after the R&M April Fools.

>>92205049
>Brad Bird

Nigga, The Incredibles is legitimately the best superhero film ever made. BAR NONE.

>>92206753
I love Incredibles but superhero genre seems to suffer the same problems as animation where it's just always viewed as way more simplistic and basic entertainment than other movies. It's kind of why people blew their fucking lid at Logan.

I still vastly prefer something like Doctor Strange to Black Swan, but I'm going by how the general movie industry views these genres.

>>92198359
>but this makes me wonder if action genre is actually dead for good.

Weisman is single-handedly keeping the genre alive.

>>92205049
>Just look at the amount of Pixar directors who tried to make a live-action movie, failed, and had to come back to animation.

Because they assume that one can apply the same goofy, imaginative or unrealistic flexibilityof animation to live-action, and that isn't the case at all. Shit is and looks stupid.

Also, I'm pretty certain that Rebecca Sugar wanted to enter the animation industry from the get-go. That doesn't mean she's decent at her craft though, as Steven Universe's quick drop into mediocrity is direct proof of this.

>>92203753
Overrated. It's great, amazing soundtrack and atmosphere as well as a pretty adult story and not in a "swearing because it makes us edgy" kind of adult story. But it's not the Magnum Opus /co/ likes to preach it as, at least in my opinion.

>>92207243
Weisman is a writer not an animator.

>>92205049

>Yeah, when you compare American animation to anything else done in North America, you can say, "B-but Steven Universe is pretty ambitious!".

>When you compare that to stuff from Europe and Japan, suddenly the bar falls.

Why, one might get the idea that cultural attitudes toward animation are different in those regions of the world than they are in a region of the world that sees animation as either "kiddy shit" or "sleazy adult comedy shit", and the difference in attitudes inform how people treat animation projects in those parts of the world.

>>92208000
But Is the industry worse because people don't respect it, or is it not respected because it's worse?

>>92198359
>>92205049

Because what anon said, American animation is pigeon hold into two categories. Kiddie shit or sleazy low brow comedy. Teen themselves go through a phase where they reject a lot of "kiddie shit" sure they might watch anime. But only because anime has a perceived notion of being "maturer" than regular cartoons.

>>92205049
>When you compare that to stuff from Europe
European animation is far, far, FAR worse than American actually. You'd have been much better off only mentioning Japan there.

>>92198359
his style is among the worst of the "stylized" look. even new ppg looks more refreshing.

>>92208989
Original SJ style is one of the best I've seen in any cartoon, only really exceeded by animesque style.

nuSJ is quite a bit worse, though.

>>92204012
>ATLA literally had the exact problem as GF, actually. They both had somewhat lackluster endings. And believe me, people gave it shit when it was running, Back then the 'golden age of cartoons' was a decade earlier too.

Because the golden age was two decades ago. It didn't change. Look at the number and quality of shows being produced over time and there's a gradual decline followed by a sharp drop somewhere around like 2004 to 2005. Once Stuart Snyder took over Cartoon Network and Disney Channel fully embraced it's gender segregated live action focused direction it just consolidated. Throw in that being around the period Nick started to get REALLY bad for the whole TV industry. Once you factor in 2d movies dying at the box office in the same period after having their own decline and the argument is kind of obvious.

20 years ago there was a Disney Renaissance, Cartoon Network was finding it's footing with original programming, Nick was already established itself, and there were still Saturday morning blocks on a respectable number of channels.

>>92208945
But thanks to grants and the way their art industry works, filmmakers can actually strive to make movies like The Illusionist or Persepolis. I don't think studios like Cartoon Saloon or Aardman Pictures would be able to survive in America. I mean, the fact that the only way we CAN get a studio who is allowed to do whatever they want (Laika) has to be owned by a billionaire who treats it like a hobby is kind of telling.

Even if you adore the shit out of Zootopia and I do, they still have to do shit like put in a Shakira song and cameo because it's still a corporation project.

>>92209396
Aardman is literal shit-tier, though. I've seen quite a few of their works, never seen a studio that seems to literally ONLY ever put out garbage.

>>92209183
The change was much more sudden than you make it sound, and it pretty much all happened in 2005 (though obviously not ever show was affected right away).

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>>92209478

>>92203188
The scenery has gone up significantly what the hell are you talking about? Have you been watching season 5 on kisscartoon on 240p or something?

>>92209550
Yup, that one included. Sorry.

>>92209560
The number of pixels has gone up while the number of brain cells activated while drawing it has gone down.

>>92209183
Ted Turner selling his business to AOL Time Warner probably screwed CN.

do you guys think there could ever be a creator owned studio?

I could see something like that fixing a lot of issues people have with western animation

>>92209611
Whatever the hell that means.

>>92209658
You mean making them worse?
Creators are the number 1 problem of the animation industry these days, executives have been bumped down to number 2.

>>92209682
What I mean is that there's far less thought put into it, far less creativity and originality. It's just pretty pictures now, whereas before it was stylized based on certain influences from other works many times.

>>92209745
>What I mean is that there's far less thought put into it, far less creativity and originality.

You're still not making any sense.

>>92209789
No, you're just too stupid.

>>92209693
>Execs forced Craig not to have a story arc with Wander and only allowed him in season 2 after it got canned even though that's when it started to gain in popularity
>The constant schedule butchering for Steven Universe and lack of info passed to the crew which makes it difficult for Sugar to know whether or not she needs to pan out the show for more seasons or if she's allowed to end it in a timely manner all of which kills the pacing of the show overall
>Hirsch ending GF quickly because of Disney's management
>CH Greenblatt going off the deep end because of how the network treated Harvey Beaks

Explain why creators are worse than execs?

>>92209822
Nobody cares about WoY, sorry.
Sugar fucked up SU with her SJW pandering.
Hirsch fucked up GF with Mabel and Wendy.
I barely even know what this show is.

>>92209693
Manchildren/tumblrina fanbases and the excessive pressure to appeal to their show-ruining shipping or waifu/husando needs is problem #3.

>>92209907
Forgot a few buzzwords to really hit your point home there, anon.

>>92209929
The only "buzzword" used there was SJW (once), and if that triggers you so much I suggest visiting Tumblr instead of 4chan.

>>92209953
Exactly, that's why you forgot some. Considering your reasoning for why creators are worse is because "No one cares about Wander, I don't know what the last show is, SJW Pandering, and Mabel + Wendy got their characters messed up", you only had a point for 1/4th of your post. For something as stupid as that, I expected you to spout something about CalArts style or how GF was pushed by feminists.

>>92207997
They're both animation showrunners, so that distinction is moot.

>>92200372
>>92200066
>Eastern animation is GOAT
Hell yeah!
>Post anything good that was made in last 5 years
Shit

>>92210035
I don't mind CalArts when it's done well, though (see: SVTFOE). You're right that Hirsch is basically a male feminist, though I haven't read about much feminist influence on GF beyond that.

>>92200372
Ping Pong was pretty good

>>92204618
Millions of threads about it for an entire week.

>>92210408
No, there weren't. You're lying.

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>>92200372

>>92210419
I'm not. It was quite obnoxious. It still is to this day.

>>92203859
Samurai Jack was never, ever about the writing. It was always a storyboard-driven series, not script-driven.

>>92210495
That was one of the major subjective criticisms levied against it. Style minus substance.

>>92210495
I watched the original seasons for the writing. If what you say is true then it was an amazing feat to make a storyboard-driven show appear as if it were script-driven. Too bad season 5 can't seem to do it.

>>92210562
>If what you say is true then it was an amazing feat to make a storyboard-driven show appear as if it were script-driven
Maybe you ought to rewatch it, because it was clear from episode 1 that it was "boards first" production because no one would ever write a script with such sparse dialogue and such a major focus on visuals.

>>92200372
Since last year:
Mob psycho, both seasons of Rakugo and Konosuba, Drifters, ACCA, LWA, and Onihei

>>92210612
I rewatched it just recently. I stand by what I said, though I should clarify I'm talking about seasons 3 and 4 mostly. Season 1 generally had significantly weaker storylines, and season 2 was largely shit.

>>92209745
You're really pulling shit out of your ass here.

I swear to god /co/ntrarians will come up with ANY reason to get upset about muh children's cartoons.

>>92200372
I enjoy Bahamut genesis and i'm enjoying Bahamut virgin soul this season

>>92198359
At least it's not eastern animation

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I keep telling you niggas and you still not listening.

Cartoons need their equivalent to doom to kick everyone's ass into giving a shit mode, into "your products are worse and sell worse in comparison, get good" mode, into "this is actually culturally relevant to people so commercial audiences actually want this" mode, to "this is unabashedly mature in a realm for children and stoners, it can't be ignored" mode, the "so fucking good people start copying its success" mode.

Enough of this bullshit saying western animation is fine, western videogames became something outselling high budget hollywood movies a decade ago and its still the most relevant product on the market compared to films or animation, because people kept pushing and pushing and pushing the envelope more and more, technologically, creatively, artistically, and we've reached a point where they've frankly replaced animated shows and films as the fantastical thing it should've been.

the creators, the studios, the business people, its all one big mess and you need to put up or become an extinct relic and novelty.

>>92210921
see >>92200066

>>92210931
Video games haven't got their own equivalent since the 90s, what makes you think an entirely different industry could? BTW, modern video games are shit compared to early 2000s ones, just like cartoons.

>>92200066
>>>/a/

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>>92198359
>worship a guy who looks like Fat Tony
>wonder why you got scammed

>>92210981
isnt it telling that even at their lowest power level, even at the shilliest, EA Ubishit tier level of generic open world vidya made for normies, that they still have so much more to them than shitty cartoons for kids made by hipsters in burbank? Isnt it telling that the fuckers making indie pixel shit are more financially stable than even disney animators? Isn't it fucking telling that despite everything, there's just more variety in one genre of vidya than there is in the entire list of "adult animation?"

Vidya playing people are fucking patrician in taste compared to the people who swallow the big steaming piles of shit that come out of the animation studios in california with a fucking smile of denial on their faces.

>>92210931
But the modern video game industry is shit and has remained shit since the start of the 7th console generation.

>>92209583
Your opinion is pure garbage

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>>92211077
I mean, look at this. Really, look at this.

There's legitimately, literally more craft, technical proficiency, commercial success, and artistic creativity in this one list than there is in the entire wikipedia entry of adult animation. Any of these could've been a cartoon or series or whatever, but its better because its videogames made by people who give a real shit, enough to have risked their livelihoods, to have made projects in secret from publishers, to work for shittier pay now for better results later, because the people who make videogames love vidya, unlike the animation hacks who will suck disney dick all day but whine about how hard their basic storyboarding gigs are. PATHETIC

>>92211165
>the majority of people in the gaming industry
>actually giving a shit about their craft

Now I know you're just trolling.
No, they go there because that's where the money is now. That industry is in its own horrible rut; just look at the decline of the Japanese game industry for starters.

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>>92211165
And this is a DEAD GENRE. How about we look at the classics, HMMMMM? Look at it, all that rich storytelling, that fine tuned graphical artistry, and they did this on top of technical limitations as well as actually making functional mechanical games! What the fuck is the excuse for the animation industry, clearly the market has always been there for animated escapist fantasy, blizzard's animation department practically dwarfs disney, hell even your typical triple A game has a bigger art department with people who can exert actual CREATIVE FREEDOM ON SHIT PEOPLE ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT

>>92210981
>Implying indie scene isn't huge in video games right now
>Implying games like Telltale's Walking Dead didn't kickstart the idea that people can make a compelling game with limited gameplay (IE: Papers Please")
>Implying mainstream stuff like The Last of Us isn't studios trying their hardest to make blockbuster: the game

Video games have given me more 2D diversity than fucking 2D animation at this point.

>>92211077

I have to admit it, this anon is actually onto something. Kids would rather watch some random sperg play a generic game like 40 others already out than watch TV, because if nothing else games tend to have variety and better content.

Even if he wasn't, Doom as an example is still really good because Doom was fucking amazing and it showed exactly how good things could be compared to a bunch of other DOS shit coming out. It shows what COULD be, and it stood the test of time even though 3D gaming as we knew it came out when DOOM was still big and it didn't die anyway.

>>92211220

First off, the gaming industry's horrible rut still brings more money and attention than animation. Second off, what fucking rock have you been under. This year has been fucking amazing for japanese games. I think there've been a dozen high tier titles in the last six months alone.

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>>92211220
You only say this in regards to the industry itself, I don't even disagree. But in regards to western animation? Fuck you, to say vidya isnt in a better state than cartoons is denial.

You know what, I'm PULLING OUT THE BIG GUNS

LOOK AT THIS

LOOK A THIS SHIT THIS IS ALL SHIT FROM LIKE TEN YEARS AGO AND THIS IS JUST A FRACTION OF THE AMOUNT OF GOOD SHIT FROM JAPAN THAT'S COME SINCE THEN

LOOK AT IT, THIS FUCKING DWARFS THE AMOUNT OF CARTOONS THAT HAVE COME OUT IN NOT JUST THIS YEAR, NOT JUST THE LAST FIVE, THE LAST FUCKING DECADE

LOOK AT IT, COMPREHENSIVELY, THE VARIETY, THE DIFFERENT ARTSTYLES, THE VAST DIFFERENCES IN GENRES AND STORYTELLING AND ARTISTIC LICENSE

WHAT THE FUCK DO CARTOONS HAVE ON THIS, WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANYONE WHO ISNT AN AUTISTIC FUCKING MANCHILD WATCH CARTOONS INSTEAD OF ANY OF THIS

FUCK YOU, CARTOONS ARENT MORE FLUID, THEY'RE RIGID LIKE FUCKING CARDBOARD. FUCK YOU, THE DESIGNS ARE SHIT AND SIMPLE AND NO ONE TAKES THE SCRIBBLES OF A BUNCH OF CALIFORNIAN FAGGOTS SERIOUSLY. ITS ALL SHIT

AND I SAY THIS AS SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO MAKE CARTOONS, THIS IS NOT OKAY, THIS IS BULLSHIT, THIS IS A SHITTY FUCKING INDUSTRY WITH SHITTY PRODUCTS AND YOU'RE EATING SHIT WITH A SMILE


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>92211258
>What the fuck is the excuse for the animation industry

Its severely limited target audience thanks to a mix of executive meddling/restrictions, along with social bias against the medium being anything more than children's shit or otaku dribble at large.

At least Japan could've had the chance to expand into something more due to the anime explosion craze in the early-to-mid 2000's - but in typical Japanese fashion, they fucked up this opportunity by retreating to their own niche national target audience, which only craved more and more self-indulgent waifu/moe/harem/SoL/idol shit than genuinely good stories, settings or characters as the years passed on.

>>92211295
Their mainstream industry is starting to see a slow comeback I suppose, but it's still largely dominated by mobile game trash.

>>92211420

This anon is a horrible sperg and a blight on the human race, but he's not WRONG.

A lot of what western animation excuses itself for is "Well the designs aren't always dynamic but at least it moves better", which may have been true fifteen years ago but it isn't anymore. At best the west farms that shit out to Korea and Canada just like Japan. At worst the stuff is worse off because the best in the west usually has a much lower budget than the best in the east.

I'm ALSO saying this as someone trying to make it myself and actually produce content. The caliber of quality we've gotten used to in the west is pure shit and even if, to loop it back around, Genndy isn't perfect he's still easily the high point of what American animation is producing for television at the moment.

>>92211420
Dude, chill the fuck out. Do you not get that full-fledged animation is far more expensive than video game development, particularly indie dev?

>>92211496
>At least Japan could've had the chance to expand into something more due to the anime explosion craze in the early-to-mid 2000's
Whatever happened to that, anyways? Why don't we have cartoons like Avatar, Teen Titans, or TMNT 2003 any more? What the fuck, /co/?

>>92210481
well, link them

>>92209922
fans doesn't have faults really, since most shows are planned before having any in first place

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>>92211548
IT'S FUCKING NOT

Look, bare minimum, you have to pay 100 bucks to initially put something up on steam and they take a cut of your sales, on top of that there's a shitload more audio production that goes into videogames because of random actions the player takes that need to either be recorded or you need to make royalty free music, it has to be much much longer than even a two hour movie because people demand bang for their buck, there's MORE animation that goes into games these days than cartoons, but a lot of it gets recycled for more enemies etc, so objectively its more effort and money. Plus if you're making something worth a shit you'll need a decent computer setup.

I guarantee you, you can get voice actors for free, animate on free software, and upload on youtube for free, its easier and cheaper, but people suck at it.

Fuck you nigga there's no excuse.

>>92211496
>Their mainstream industry is starting to see a slow comeback I suppose, but it's still largely dominated by mobile game trash.

Are you fucking high? Ever since FFXV came out there's been like two AAA level games that are top shelf a month on release. Even people who love to shit on japanese games have been forced to admit that they've been kicking the west's ass for about half a year. Not to mention shit like the Bayonetta port, which is apparently one of the smoothest ports to come out.

>>92211591

As we've been talking about since like the mid point in the thread, just when that was taking off the whole western industry basically died. Executives didn't want to spend the money and a lot of talent moved from where they were. I don't know about Genndy specifically but he and a dozen others like him just up and left cartoon network in a huff because Snyder fucked them all over one at a time.

Leadership is nominally different now, but they've stuck to similar strategies and play the same games. The only real reason I think Genndy is making SJ and doing it the way he is is because Adult Swim has it's own leadership that has a lot of people involved with the old guard. Toonami is run by the same creators as back in the day and they answer to the same guy they used to.

>>92211708
Nobody watches web animation, though. We're talking about professional-quality cartoons here.

People do actually seek out and play indie games.

Flash animation.

Literally motion tween the dollars into your pocket.

>>92211742
>The only real reason I think Genndy is making SJ and doing it the way he is is because Adult Swim has it's own leadership that has a lot of people involved with the old guard. Toonami is run by the same creators as back in the day and they answer to the same guy they used to.
How does this explain why this season is so terrible, though?

>>92200372
over the garden wall

>>92211708

I'm going to actually reverse that a bit. Doing Video Games for low budget and doing animation for low budget is probably about the same. The difference is while vidya is bigger you can buy a lot more premade assets for it, or find them for free online, while everything in 2D needs to be made from scratch.

>>92211762

Sexualobster pulls viewership in the low six digit range, which isn't as much as big names but he does it because he can consistently throw up a video a month that's full color, full acted, and he doesn't make a lot of the excuses other web animators do.

>>92209745
>I hate Ashi
We get it, kid.

>>92211796

If anything in leadership changed, it's because people changed. I think DeMarco made that twitter tirade about how much weeaboos suck before deleting it. That's an extreme example but nobody is frozen in place forever.

Even if they WEREN'T, remember that everyone involved has made bad plays numerous times in the past. Nobody is infallible. Samurai Jack's script needed another draft, and I'm saying this as someone who LIKES the new season.

>>92211885
I hate the non-Ashi parts of the season much more

>>92209745
>thought!
>soul!
It's always the same buzzwords.

>>92211742
>As we've been talking about since like the mid point in the thread, just when that was taking off the whole western industry basically died. Executives didn't want to spend the money and a lot of talent moved from where they were.
Any thoughts on WHY this happened, though?

>>92199431
>Current Steven Universe
>ambitious
>unique

>>92203538
>What do you watch anon, enlighten me.
2000s cartoons almost exclusively, along with a few older ones. Only exceptions being one-time watches of continuations like SJS5 and LOK.

>>92211915
Too bad, I enjoyed those parts too.

>>92203538
>I don't like my animation smooth like Disney.
FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE GETS IT

handdrawn 2D >>>>>>>>>>> disneyesque motion

>>92211943

A bunch of shit one after another. The Boston bomb scare fucked CN leadership. Disney's 2d films stopped being that great while Shrek took off and competition that wasn't friendly stopped being something they could just kill easily. Nick stopped producing good new stuff and relied way more heavily on a small number of legacy shows. Any one of those would just be a bad thing affecting one company but all of it at once kind of killed a lot of the industry's momentum.

>>92212018
Well then you have SUPER shit taste, not just ordinary shit taste.

>>92212017
>exclusively
It's the new "90's was the best"

>>92212070
But didn't that stuff happen later? IIRC the major shit went down in 2005, and I'm looking for reasons for that.

>>92212077
Nah, my taste is much more superior than yours, buddy. You are too pleb to see it.

>>92212080
But it can't be nostalgia, most of those cartoons I'd never so much as heard of as a kid.

>>92212107

Disney's stuff happened sooner, CN's stuff happened later. It was in a three year or so span.

>>92212202
I'm talking about the CN stuff in particular, it all seemed to happen in 2005.

>>92212107
The first major signs were the decline of the 2D animation movie industry in the late 90's, which were quickly being replaced by 3D animated films, which were seen as "fresh" and unique at the time, and did not follow Disney washed-out princess & musical trends.

>>92212302
Fucking shit, I hate 3D animated films so, so much

>>92211420
> to say vidya isnt in a better state than cartoons is denial

I never said that though. Hell, you're completely right about it being a bigger money-maker than the movie industry at this point, let alone cartoons. Because it certainly is.

But like both animation and movies - it's been in a creative low for years. We see it through the rehashed sequels, the mass-produced, buggy AAA garbage that actually passes onto commercial shelves or the mediocre drivel that gets over-hyped by paid-off e-celebs and gaming review sites. Not even going to bring up the absolutely disgusting business trends like DLC, season passes, P2W mechanics, grinding, and etc.

With all of the money the industry makes makes now and all of the talented people it hires - many modern games STILL cannot even remotely COMPARE to the amount of quality we had gotten between the 90's to the mid 2000's.

>>92212120
Not him but that wouldn't be possible, Ashifriend.

>>92212406
You are blind but I will forgive you this time
>not him but
heh

>>92210931
Except the AAA vidya business is now pulling the same shit cartoon channel execs are doing.

>Less proper playtesting and more frequent post-release patches, leading to buggy releases
>Microtransactions to leech more money of players
>Pre-order bonuses to steer buyers away from making proper judgement through post-release reviews
>Emphasis on graphical fidelity over the quality of gameplay
>Bribing reviewers to give positive reviews in exchange for early review copies
>Include gimmicks that becomes irrelevant within 5 years to sell expensive hardware
>Ballooning cost of game development leading to higher financial risk, and less risk taking
>Always online functionality and login clients required to run a game but may not stay functional forever

And it's gone to shit because all of the above has become standard practice for the past 10 years or so.

>>92213927
You think that's bad, look at the software industry. It's literally pay-as-you-go for many things now, practically extortion, and the quality is just shit.

>>92203188

The only worse art in season 5 in Aku, he looks like a Newgrounds flash animation. Everything else is an upgrade.

>>92214020
Jack himself is drawn terribly. It's more distracting than Aku.

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>>92199431
>cites Cartoon Network trash
People like you are what is dragging western animation down. You've got solid cartoons in SvtFOE, Gravity Falls, Loud House, Wander, or Beaks, and you opt for the bargain bin K-Mart brand trash because they reference anime and video games alot making them more popular only on the internet.

>>92214114
Other anon is retarded, but none of those you listed are anywhere near "solid cartoons". Good Western animation ended in the mid-2000s.

>>92199431
>>92214114
>Not even one mention of Over the Garden Wall

>>92200372
Space dandy.

>>92214473
Movies don't count for this.

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>>92200372
I'm guessing no matter what I put down you're just going to go NUH UH.

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>>92204557
>TT has the best characterization of any cartoon I've ever seen by far
Jesus fucking christ my man
adquire some fucking taste

>>92208000
>I blame problems on vague sociocultural forces I can't even quantify

>>92210432
that anime was fucking garbage and you know it

>>92204693
>I feel like I must have missed a season or something.
You probably missed season 5.
>>92205055
I've watched a lot of Canadian cartoons.

>>92214898
Naw it was good.
Had better animation than anything that has aired on Nick,Disney or CN in the past 5 years and was entertaining to watch.

>>92200372
I liked Beyond the Boundary

>>92214898
It was pretty fun and the animation was top tier.

>>92215066
>Had better animation than anything that has aired on Nick,Disney or CN in the past 5 years and was entertaining to watch.
So... garbage? Glad we agree.

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>>92215358
Find something from an original series better than this that has aired on any of those networks in the past 5 years.
Ill wait, retard.

>>92204469
Adventure Time is still good, it's just something different now.

>>92215450
You don't understand, I agree with you, I'm just saying that's a terribly low bar to set for any show.
>>92204469
All of those are dogshit too. Your standards suck.

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>>92203135
>>92203158

no it fucking sucks and was bait all the time he even dropped the best girls for a "we are just brothers" ending don't even use it for examples on good anime.

>>92203135
Okay I laughed, because Oreimo was actually the first thing I thought someone would say as bait.

Although I'll admit I did enjoy it.

>>92214110
>>92214020
>>92203188
It just isn't hand-drawn, that's all the difference is. Because they can use digital to clean it up, it looks sharper, and it's in 16:9, so it's harder to do the 4:3-to letterbox conversion that looked so good.

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>>92212056
>disneyesque motion

You mean basic fucking rules of animation, you goddamn mongoloid?

>>92217208
You mean rotoscope? :^)

>>92203886
You grew up.

That's what happened

>>92204557
Dis nigga ain't see wakfu

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>>92214972
>Canadian cartoons
What did you expect?

>>92214898
I will never get the hate behind Flip Flappers, same with Kill la Kill. There were so many worse things that came out the same season, and the imaginative high action show is the one people hate, and usually for retarded reasons.

>>92199431
Slipping production values make it so that only funny looking shit is plausible.

People don't realize that this doesn't mean current shows are crap but rather that the art direction in current shows is practically homogenized these days.

>>92210996
So you cant like anime in /co/?

>>92211496
Hey SOL anime can have good stories, settings and characters. Slice of life isnt just cute girls doing cute things

>>92218777
Kill la kill most appeal was threads on /a/ for me atleast kinda like with Gode Geass

>>92217208
No, I mean the fake-looking smooth motion that is characteristic of pretty much all Disney animation (excepting certain shows like Kim Possible which are animated differently).

>>92217513
So because I grew up, an entire category of shows that I had never seen as a child stopped being made? You're literally full of shit.

>>92218788
I have far more of a problem with the writing in modern cartoons than the art.

>>92216939
First of all, not being hand-drawn would automatically make it shit, but I don't think that's even true. Second, moving to digital would be no excuse for shitty character design.

>>92219333
Nope, that's why it's /co/.

I don't get this "the public doesn't want adult cartoons because they'll forever be seen as kid shit" when stuff like Simpsons, South Park or family guy exists. Normies are extremely willing to give cartoons a try, just look at stuff like Adventure Time and Gravity Falls, every college age to early 30s at least pretends to like them.

>>92219887
Notice the commonality in your list? All of those are adult sitcoms. If it's animated but not a sitcom, adult normies don't even want to hear about it.

>>92219979
>Adventure Time and Gravity Falls are sitcoms

Ok autismo, how.

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>>>92204215 If you want a real dark age then try 2005-2009.
Yah, no.

This cartoon made my nephew scream and cry. If any cartoon can get this type of reaction while still being funny, that's only a high point in the art.

Cartoon Network's stuff at the time may not have been the greatest of all time forever and ever because hyperbole but they were trying a lot of different things, and that's never a recipe for dark ages.
It's the fucking opposite; a renaissance. And just like the Renaissance, there's a lot of shit to shift through, but it led to better things.

Also, Avatar and Justice League Unlimited came out during that time, so you're shit for even pretending it was a dark age.

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>>92219887
This. The demand is clearly there and its not going to be a that much of a stretch to get a bunch of millennials to watch a cartoon that tries something new. Someone just needs to make the effort

>>92220179
Oh sorry, I should have specified: the FIRST list.
I ignored your second list because it's bullshit. Try mentioning liking either of those "totally not for kids" series at work, you'll be laughed right out of your job. Same goes for normie friends.

>>92205049

>They excuse it because "it's for kids!" even though children's literature is far more ambitious and sometimes even better written.
People who watch live-action never take it seriously unless it's South Park because let's face it, we don't even have a single show worthy of comparing to something viewed highly like Breaking Bad.

THIS THIS THIS

It pains me deeply that, despite my love of cartoons, I can never truly appreciate them as an art form like something like Breaking Bad.

Although, Over the Garden Wall was really good. Probably the closest I've seen.

As much as I love anime, why do people hold it up on such a pedestal, like everyone, even normal people do this... Stuff like SEL which is more artistic seems to be exception, and genre-fiction like mecha and magical schoolgirls seems to be the norm. It seems to be the equivalent of holding up western animation because Aeon Flux was really avante-garde or something (I haven't seen it, TBF).

>>92219887
This was not true even ten years ago. You have to give the industry time to adapt. It took the millennial generation growing up for there to be an audience willing to give it a shot. And that's only because millennials are an emotionally stunted bunch who never progressed much past their childhoods

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>>92214580
came to post this

>>92219858
I think you have understood /co/ wrong. /co/ is full of weaaboos who also likes western cartoons and comics

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>>92214114
>SvtFOE, Gravity Falls, Loud House, Wander, or Beaks
>solid cartoons

I'm using this thread in my show pitch. Say Hi!

>>92200372
Ping-Pong: the Animation
Little Witch Academia
Space Dandy
tons of various shorts

>>92207908
>But it's not the Magnum Opus /co/ likes to preach it as
Nothing is.

>>92210931
>because people kept pushing and pushing and pushing the envelope more and more
Not at all. Quality games made with talent and dedication usually turn out to be a small success with a niche fanbase at best.
This multi-million industry you're talking about is based on shitty annual rehashes made with the sole purpose of being addictive cashgrabs for braindead normalfags.
Also the whole comparison is retarded, because vidya's replayability is much easier to achieve than cartoon's rewatchability.

>>92225991
>Wander
>not a solid cartoon
you better be baiting

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>>92226388
The Space Dandy movie was pretty awesome.