To someone with as much formal training as he had, Zuko was kind

Zuko had average talent. That was the point. He trained hard to pass his sister who was a genius.

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He just needed that someone to give him positive motivation and balance out the anger in him.

>>92086496
>He trained hard to pass his sister
He probably died without accomplishing it.

>>92086496
And he never managed to do that either. He had an edge on her in their final fight, only because she was completely unhinged.

>>92086447
Zuko himself said it best,

>She was born lucky

>I was lucky to be born

Why did the art change so much in the second season? Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1

...anyone else think it was kinda hot when he knocked out Katara?

Aang was the friggin' Avatar and Katara, Toph, and Azula were super prodigies who were all the strongest benders of their respective element of their generation. Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all.

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>>92086557
>Why did they make zuko a twink in the last two season too? He was ripped in season 1

the villain always gets nerfed when he joins your party

>>92086574
>Zuko does well just to keep up with them at all.
He should at least be more impressive than Mako, practically a self-taught homeless.

The guy is the fucking Fire Lord.

>>92086557

I always explained it as Zuko having lost muscle mass while starving floating on a raft in the middle of the ocean with Iroh or struggling across the continent as a refugee. It's hard to maintain muscle mass, takes good eating, and he didn't have that for a long time so it makes sense to me he was thinner.

>>92086447
>>92086556
I love the not so subtle jabs by the writers at talent versus hard work.
Seems like someone on the writing team loved eugenics a bit too much.

I mean seriously that garbage with lol your grand-grandfather on your mother's side was the avatar, therefore you're good.
Lol your grand-grandfather on your father's side was the fire lord, therefore you're evil.

And it wasn't handled in a "you can choose to be either good or evil". It was handled in "Zuko is naturally good, that's why he's so bad at being evil and that's why Azula is so good at it".

It would be funny if Azula inherited all that raw talent because of the avatar's genes, while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes.
Yet another contrast between Aang and Katara.
Or Roku and Sozin.

>>92086661
Give me my satan quads!!!

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I think Ozai pointed out the same thing. Zuko sucks at bending for his level of training/genetics.
But he's a good kid deep down. Bit whiny, but decent. And decent at bending too, all said and done.

>>92086661

Lot of behavior is tied up in genetics tbf. Lots of talent is also in genetics (environment also matters, insofar as you need a certain amount of nutrition etc).

>>92086661
>while Zuko inherited the shitty fire lord genes.
But both Iroh and Ozai were monsters. You can't put the blame on their side.

>>92086661
There's also the spiritual aspects of things.

They did show that about the twins, despite sharing the same genes only one of them had earth bending skills while the other did not.

>>92086534
And rub his face in her huge titties.

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Could Lavabender Bolin take Fire Lord Zuko down?

That's kinda embarrassing.

Zuko wasn't angry enough to be good fire bender.

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>>92086847
Fire comes from the breath, kiddo.

>>92086496
His grandson has amazing talent, at least.

>>92086661
They certainly did it better than that other show that was about mystic notninjas.

>>92086824
The power levels kind of skyrocketed in Korra.

>>92086544
He was able to match her in Southern Raiders

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>>92086557
>He was ripped in season 1
He was ripped in season 3 too

>>92086615
Mako was trained by Lightning Bolt Zolt of the Triple Threat Triads

>>92086557
He spent like a whole season on the run practically starving.

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>>92086447
Katara was a prodigy
Toph was a prodigy
Aang was a prodigy

Zuko was average, but had one of the best teachers in the Fire Nation. And because of that, he could at least keep up.

>>92086824
Zuko is the biggest jobber of the franchise, he'd find a way to lose.

>>92086894
If anything it's the opposite since they had to do more subdued bending due to the mostly urban setting. Just compare the shit Toph did in The Earth King to any of Lin's fights.

It's just that bloodbending and lavabending are way too fucking OP.

He had no natural talent for the style of firebending that was dominant in his culture, which relied on drawing power from being a nasty piece of shit, and was basically trying to force a square peg into a round hole. He powered up a lot once he adopted a more appropriate philosophy towards life and by extension bending.

>>92086534
A prostitute will give him sex, which is the same thing.

>>92086976
Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy. And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.

>>92087049
>And Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole and became a Master herself

>>92086496
>>92086544
>>92086540

Zukos talent wasn't bad. He just wasn't made to use the fire nations method of anger. Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the true way to fire bend, he quickly caught back up and surpassed his sister.

>>92087049
>Katara just had a proper master while 99% of the population didn't.
Come on, she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students with about two weeks of training and she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend by just watching her do it once.

It's clear that Katara is meant to be really good.

>>92087049

Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar. He became the youngest airbending master in history.

>>92087079
>She quickly out performed all of the water bending students at the North Pole
most of them were kids

>became a Master herself
Debatable. She is very clearly not at the level of a master, even by the end of the show. It is unlikely she could defeat her teacher, for example, or any other master class bender. It highly depends on what you call "master". They say very often that Aang 'mastered all elements', however by the end of the show they recognize Aang is not so good at earthbending and firebending. Being a 'master' might as well just mean 'able to control the elements'.

>>92087049
>Aang was the avatar, not a prodigy
Be was the Avatar AND a prodigy.

He became the youngest person to have ever mastered all airbending moves so fast and then he added his own move to its catalog.

>>92087049
Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history. Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger in the first 5 minutes of the series, and once started training under Pakku she skyrocketed past his other students and became the best.

>>92087162
*youngest

>>92086534

>Jin missed her chance with Zuko
>still wants sum Fire Royalty Fuk
>puts on her war paint and hunts Azula down in the wilds
>turns out Jin is some kind of ninja savant whose powers are only unlocked when she's on the prowl for sex
>also turns out that all Azula needed to make her sane again was to be repeatedly muff-punched by an EK girl with giant tits

I'd buy that for a dollar.

>>92087153
why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway? They always needed that glider then when Oozai just went lmao rocket jets and that guy who literally never airbended in his life mastered flight in 2 seconds

>>92087114
>she surpassed all of Pakku's experienced students
all kids

>she defeated the person that discovered how to bloodbend
1- Hama wasn't the first bloodbender, she just discovered how to bloodbend. If anything, by not having a bloodbend master helping her, her bloodbend was weak.

2- Hama wasn't really that good of a WATERbender, and that's what the fight is about in the end.

Everyone that had an actual master is supposed to be good, as opposed to 99% of other benders without a master.

>>92087146
>Aang was a prodigy airbender even accounting for being an Avatar
he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar. Avatar knowledge is not something he can just shut off; that's why he learned waterbending so fast.

>>92087198
they couldn't enter the void

>>92087213
also Hama kind of wanted Katara to win since it would mean Katara would learn bloodblending. I mean the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win

>>92087198
There's a philosophical reason behind the ability to fly, at least through airbending. You can't have any attachment to earth, nothing holding you down. After the death of his girlfriend, Zaheer didn't have anything.

>>92087242
yeah but they were airbending monks, they're literally all buddhists who threw away all earthly attachments to live in a dusty temple with other bald guys

>>92087162
>Aang was the Air Nomad to become an airbending master in history
yes, BECAUSE he had the past lives helping him learn. The same happened with waterbending.

>Katara destroyed an iceberg through sheer anger
She caused it to crack, it's different, and it's not pointed out to be anything more significant than that. Also, even screaming near a snow mountain can cause an avalanche. It's like saying an earthbender that moved a rock to start a reaction that ended up destroying a mountain is strong enough to destroy a mountain himself.

>>92087198
Starting at a young age, Air Nomad children begin travelling around the world. None of them would want to detach themselves from the world after seeing so much amazing shit in it.

>>92087257
I assume since they still cared about there students they could not fly

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>>92087232
>the only way anyone ever really beats a bloodbender is by surprise attack or if they let you win
You can literally overcome bloodbending by not being a total faggot. Even a half faggot was able to do it.

>>92087213
>he was a prodigy airbender Because of the avatar
Roku at the age of 16 wasn't especially gifted the way Aang at the age of 12 was.

>>92087279
not to mention Kora was triple bending at age 5 or some shit

>>92087279
The avatar knowledge doesn't trigger at the same age for everyone. Korra was able to bend 3 elements at 4 years old, without even getting training. She wasn't a prodigy, she just received help.

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>>92087257
They had each other.
>>92087262
You do realize the entire series takes place in like 9 months, right? Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing.

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>>92087198
>why did no airbender ever figure out normal flight anyway
because Zaheer needed to be a special snowflake, so despite being clearly driven by his ideals he was able to get good at bending in two weeks, and then fly.

>>92087242
>Zaheer didn't have anything
Then why was he trying to kill Korra?

>>92087345
>Katara's sum progress through the show is amazing.
It's hard to say when they mostly fight people without any training. Literally anyone can join the FN army. I just think it made her look stronger than she actually is.

>>92087304
But Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three. And even then, I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air.

>>92087291
>>92087304
Agreed. Korra is a strong bender, but her skill is a little above average at the most. It still took her years to master the three elements she could actually access.

Korra was filled with the stupidest, goofiest most OP villains. Kuvira was the only one worth anything.

>>92087278
I don't know about that, Mako only managed to wrest control back for like a second to get off one of his instant lightning attacks, it's not like he was fighting it off permanently like Aang did with the AS.

>>92087387
The Dai Li start training as kids.

Anyone has the tier list that an anon posted here days ago?

>>92087391
>Korra still needed 10 years of training to master these three
Aang needed 10 years of training to master one.

> I wouldn't say that Korra with her three elements was more skilled than Aang using just air
She probably wasn't. Has to do with how much the avatar knowledge can help you. It was noticeable that Aang had a hard time learning water, and Katara even surprassed him at some point. Being the avatar helps, it just doesn't help all the way.

>>92087352
I like Zaheer. He makes Korra look so inept and useless as avatar. I think world would be better without avatar.

>>92087387
>Then why was he trying to kill Korra?
Consider it a moral obligation more than a goal.

>>92087426
a half faggot can get seconds. A non-faggot will get minutes.

>>92087433
>The Dai Li start training as kids
they lost to the dai li

>>92087453
>Aang needed 10 years of training to master one.
And 9 months to master three

>>92087471
Katara managed to fend off several of them.

>>92087459
world be better if the fire nation won desu

>>92087460
Same shit. Even that autistic yelling he made at the end when he was captured shows how he wasn't able to let go of anything. This is ridiculous; You're telling monks that trained decades to 'let go', stucked in a temple, weren't able to achieve flight, but a guy that is is driven by his goals after 12 years imprisoned, and had a GIRLFRIEND, can do it?

>>92086615
Mako is just bullshit all around though so it's really a fair comparison.

>>92087436

I remember they put Toph on the second tier and put Azula above Katara even though Katara defeated Azula. So whatever.

>>92087531
Maybe goals arent "earthly"

>>92087198
Over generations they forgot the cloudwalking skill that their ancestors knew on the Lion Turtle

That flying nimbus shit was better than flight

>>92087104
>Once he went and learned from a dragon with Aang the "true" way to fire bend, he quickly went back to being exactly the same as before and still almost lost to his sister when it was two against one.
Fix'd.

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>>92087537
Are you mad that I can lightbender without dancing while you're a hack, Fire Lord Zuko?

>>92087478
>master three
He didn't master any of them, on the general sense. Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show.

>>92087490
and in the end was defeated. Buying time doesn't mean you are of the same ability.

That said i should point out that there is a spiritual element to bending; some people ARE more powerful than others, without that meaning some sort of 'genius'. They are just born powerful for whatever reason, like some people are born physically stronger than others. Many strong people meeting on the battleground is normal. Belittling this is like saying a character is bad for being really tall and using that in his favor in basketball.

>>92087531
Just because you sit around in a temple all day doesn't mean you're better at letting go than anyone else. And it took his girlfriend dying for him to let go of her, he couldn't fly before that happened.

His last words there were pretty stupid though i agree.

>>92087151
She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her. And her skills and knowledge progressed enough that Pakku trusted her to train Aang, the last best hope for the world against the Fire Nation

She beat Azula twice, she whupped Dai Li agents,Ty Lee and Mai who'd defeated a ton of Earth Kingdom generals

>>92087612
I'm more mad at Mako being somehow more execptional than anyone else in the series.

>>92087668
>Toph herself says he sucks at earthbending by the end of the show.
Only compared to herself and Bumi. He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King.

>>92087693
Eh, I have less problems with two street rats, turned into criminals, turned into professional bending MMA fighters becoming really good than rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.

>>92087668
She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning.

>>92087742
Ty Lee was rich?

I also don't have a problem with Mako and Bolin. They were strong, but the others professional benders and triad members were just as strong, with not stronger.

>>92087684
>She gave Pakku a hell of a fight before he started training her
kek, no. He defeated her easily.

>Pakku trusted her to train Aang
not like they had any choice

>She beat Azula twice
once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy.

>she whupped Dai Li agents
she lost that fight against the Dai Li

>Ty Lee and Mai
If i remember well the two first times they fought, Katara was saved by Appa.

>>92087721
>Only compared to herself and Bumi
She said he needed a lot of work, in both earthbending and firebending. It is also said later that earthbending is the element Aang had more trouble with. He probably never really mastered it.

>He was easily beating Dai Li soldiers at earthbending in Lake Laogai and The Earth King
He lost to other Dai Li soldiers, and he had 3 other elements to help.

>>92087742
Oh yeah that's fine. But they really make a big deal out of how amazing Mako is all the time, even Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability than he does Korras and she's the avatar.

>>92087742
>rich teenage girls like Asami, Mai and Ty Lee defeating trained soldiers.

Mai has the stupidest skillset. She apparently practiced throwing knives in her room because she was so bored, and she only targets clothes? At least make her a ninja, dammit.

>>92087809
People are still salty about the Mako-wanking in Book 1, I see. He really doesn't do much after it.

>>92087771
>She retreated because Aang was shot through the heart with lightning
He was shot in the heart with lightning because he tried to save her from being killed by them. Iroh had to help cover their escape.

>>92087823
Yeah he gets much better after book 1.

>>92087809
To be fair, Mako's somehow a better overall fighter than Korra. Korra just has more raw power and elements.

>>92087809
>Amon makes a bigger deal out of Makos bending ability
I always saw that comment as Amon telling Korra "neener-neener-neener Imma take your boyfriend's bending"

>>92087807
>not like they had any choice
Pakku could have gone with them on Appa as they went to find Bumi in the Earth Kingdom.

>once, i believe, and only when Azula was crazy.
Underneath Ba Sing Se, Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu

>she lost that fight against the Dai Li
She fought them several times, and only lost when she had to retreat when Azula shot Aang in the back and she was overwhelmed by like 2 dozen Dai Li agents who kept getting reinforcements

>>92087854
I just don't think he should be, she is the avatar, apperently a prodigy aswell and had the (pressumably) best teachers available to her, while he's a street kid and a decent pro-bending athlete.

>>92087862
>Pakku could have gone with them
If he could, he would. He clearly had to stay, or else he would make helping the avatar his top priority.

>Azula needed to be saved by Zuzu
you mean when Katara and Aang were 2x1 her. Katara had to be saved by Aang as well.

>She fought them several times
How many times alone?

>>92087823
>>92087842
>he gets much better after book 1.

"Better" is relative.

After the season one wanking, he didn't have too much going on for him. Bolin's arcs progressed more and were even more important to the overall plot.

>>92087901
Well by better i meant he become less annoying and less of a douche. I remember alot of people hated him after book 1 but got over it as the seasons progressed.

>>92087925
I just wished he had more to do than just running around if the team.

>>92087900
>If he could, he would. He clearly had to stay, or else he would make helping the avatar his top priority.
He went to rebuild the Southern Water Tribe and get himself from Gran-Gran puss instead.
He could have chosen to continue training Aang, but he didn't

>>92088003
I mean the ideal would be more focus on the krew and less on random character of the season, but i'm not sure how well Bryke would do if they focused more on Mako, they might just end up making him more annoying.

>>92087610
Did we watch the same fight?

He was outpacing her until he saved Kataras life.

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>>92088153
Azulafags don't remember the parts that make her look bad.

>>92087925
Why does everyone hate Mako when Korra and Tenzin's superslut wife were plotting to steal Mako away from Asami. Korra was willing to backstab her friend who was trying to help her in order to get the dick wtf.

>>92088153
To be fair, that really wasn't Azula at her best.

>>92088229
>Boohoo I my mother doesn't love me and hates me
Why hasn't she razed the country side in order to find and execute her

>>92088228
He came off as a douchebag and also partly to blame for dragging it out. Not that Korra is innocent in the whole thing, just that Mako could have turned her down when he had the chance. It's also that he told Bolin to not go for Korra and then did so himself anyway even though he knew his own brother had a crush on her.

>>92088153
Yes, he was outpacing her, but the way they played that scene made it seem like that was only because she was so unhinged. Zuko even says that something's off with Azula, and he thinks he can beat her because of it. Not because of "true" firebending, which is functionally identical to what we had seen before, but because she wasn't at the top of her game.

>>92088276
She probably would do it, but he was in power for only one day.

>>92086496

Zuko never surpasses Azula, that's almost the whole point of his arc. Zuko is supposed to be a runty shitter compared to the real players. His weakness leads him to suffer and struggle, and ultimately come to understand others better.

If Zuko magically came to be a better firebender than Azula by the end it'd be kind of shitting on his character arc. Zuko wins because he has people helping him. There's a reason Zuko has someone on his side, a former enemy no less, during the final battle, while Azula is completely alone; and it's not because Zuko is a better firebender.

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>>92088210
Its funny that Katara was the one that usualy aimed to kill.

She was going to tear Azula's members apart on this scene.

>>92086447
Zuko was probably on the TOP 10 of fire benders of the world, and by the end of the show it was obvious that he suprassed Azula.

>>92088670
>obvious that he suprassed Azula.
A barely sane version of Azula. And even then, he wasn't way above her, he had a little edge and that's all.

He still pales in comparison to the rest of the Gaang.

>>92088229
Bullshit.

There's no reason to think she was weaker than normal.

>>92088670
Iroh
Ozai
Jeong-Jeong
Azula
Li
Lo
Ran
Shaw

I guess you're right.

>>92088763
In a sense she was. She wasn't thinking straight due to paranoia, there was probably more openings for Zuko.

>>92088763
Except for the mental breakdown. She was quite unhinged and not thinking clearly which would impact her ability to make good decisions during the fight.

>>92086496
No, he recognized his failings and reconciled with his enemies. This lead him to victory. He was never a powerful bender.

I like to think he went on to become an Obi-Wan type of fighter. Defensive yet cunning. Leading his foes into traps.

>>92088763
Except for Zuko himself saying "she isn't at her best, I might be able to defeat her alone"?

>>92088670
>Zuko was probably on the TOP 10 of fire benders of the world,
There's less than 10 named firebenders in the show.

>>92088798
If anything her emotion fueled firebending should have been even more powerful with all the extra anger and hate.

>>92086544
If he had trained with the Dragons for several years he may have become a Master.

>>92086557
>literally starving on the road. Had to resort to theivery to eat well.

>>92086615
LoK never happened.

>>92086629
This.

>>92088847
Did you not watch The Deserter?

>>92086748
That one's hard to determine. Because if their dad was a master at x it only makes sense that they'd be at least competent. Is it parental teaching or genetics? Is bending even determined by genetics or is Azula just a better student?

>>92086762
Iroh was a good guy.

>>92086872
>Implying Iroh isn't mad as fuck.

>>92088767
>Li
>Lo
they're not firebenders though

>>92089051
Zuko just wasn't a prodigy or strong bender like his two sisters, but he did manage to get far through hard work.

>>92089051
There isn't really a clear explanation for it. I just think of it in wuxia terms that some people are just born talented and others work hard for it.

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>>92087049
>Katara just had a proper master
She learned to bloodbend in a day.

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>never really took a liking to iroh when atla was airing
>Went back and watched it months ago
>The episode when he was bringing mementos to the tree to honor his deceased son

Shit brought me to tears. I barely remembered that.

>>92089215
>in a day
We actually don't know how much time it was.

That said bending disciplines for some reason aren't difficult. Toph has said more than once that any idiot could learn metalbending, for instance. Zuko learned in about a day how to redirect lightning. Zaheer was able to fly in two weeks.

>>92087213
>her bloodbend was weak.
Hama is clearly meant to be a master anon. No other waterbender or bloodbender could rip water out of plants or thin air. Katara is clearly meant to be gifted, hell, she taught herself basic bending without any training.

>>92087352
>Big influence on punk rock
what?

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>>92089309
What about the Foggy Swamp waterbenders? The ones Katara mentions when Hama demonstrates that?

>>92087413
Amon was fun, until he wasn't.

>>92089309
>No other waterbender or bloodbender could rip water out of plants or thin air.
That's because those are techniques of the nearly extinct southern style and everyone else (except the swamp tribe) uses northern style water bending.

>>92089356
Probably a reference to his voice actor being Henry Rollins

>>92089380
>That feel when I thought he was going to be part cyborg which is why no blood bending won't work completely

>>92087153
Still nothing compared to Korra. No instruction and she managed to learn how to bend three elements by the age of four. She has more talent than the entirety of team avatar. She could probably solo them without trying.

>>92086447
That's the point faggot

He wasn't stupidly OP for a good reason

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>>92089389
When you think about it, that means the only master in Southern-Style Waterbending is pic-related. Katara still has some years left, she should make a trip.

>>92089520
Not according to the way LoK portrayed her power. She couldn't even take one of them if we're going by that. Also remember how Aang made a huge wave big enough to cover Appa on his first try, Korras age 4 bending got nothing on that.

Zuko's true element was cold, hard fire nation steel (folded 1000 times in glorious fire nation homeland)

>>92089360
Huu was the only one of them to manipulate plants

And Hama went further than Huu by actually ripping water out of plants

>>92089380
>all those fan theories when the series started like a chi bender or an ancient spirit deciding humans don't deserve to bend anymore
>ends up being a water bender with the dumbest and illogical motives possible

Also how did they develop sky scrapers, blimps, radios, telegraphs, electricity, and other technilogies of the during of the 1900s prohibition era yet they skipped the firearm?

That was discovered centuries before all that other shit

>>92089602
>everyone looking forward to Aang guiding Korra like Roku did
>"lol nope she has no spiritual connection at all. Oh but she's able to go into the avatar state cause reasons!"

WHY

Did they even explain that shit?

>>92089602
The (((BENDERS))) are trying to keep the man down.

>>92086447
Comparing him to the rest of the aang gang isn't that fair. They're all miraculous bending prodigies. Zuko had no trouble wiping the floor with normies same as the rest of them.

>>92089309
>clearly meant to be a master anon
>by training her bending in prison
meh.

>No other waterbender or bloodbender could rip water out of plants or thin air
Swampbenders could, and that one women in the comic could as well. Anyway, we don't really get a good look on the bloodbending community.

>she taught herself basic bending without any training
S01 makes a point of it that she was bad at bending until she got proper lessons.

>>92089634
The reason is that Bryke are terrible when it comes to plot resolution.

>>92089170
I actually think this is a pretty serious misconception. Zuko isn't triple ridiculous like Azula is, but he's still one of the best Firebenders in the world at an extremely young age, and has at least two other talents he's pretty ridiculous at -- stealth / infiltration and swordsmanship.

People tend to look at Zuko and think he's not good because everybody else around him learns at a hyper-accelerated rate. They even point to things like Azula being dramatically off her game during their duel. But, you know what? He had a duel with Azula before that, before she totally cracked, and he was matching her blow for blow.

The ONLY move that she had and which he lacked or had no counter to at that time was using firebending to fly. It's pretty clear to me that Zuko was meant to have caught up and been a true peer to all these ridiculous people at the end, but people are super invested in Azula being exponentially Better even past the clear expiration date of her superiority.

>>92089634
I thought it was ok that her connection was non-existant, but she shouldn't have had avatar state on demand until she solved that problem and worked for it.

I guess the reason for a weak spiritual connection was that they didn't want Aang to steal the show. The avatar state was probably to make Korra look like a badass, but like every other time they failed at making it work.

>>92089783
I just wish they gave us a reason why. I mean did she witness something tragic? Did she hit her head?

And ALL the lack of a connection did was stop her from air bending. She never tried to talk to Aang, it's literally never addressed, and it doesn't hamper her with the avatar state.

And she never actually solves it. She learns to airbend, which was supposed to be blocked by her lack of spiritual connection, with out fixing the connection!

>oh hey so and so can't "X" because she lacks "Y"
>okay now they can "X" even though she doesn't have "Y" and "Y" will never be addressed again

>>92089899
Did they retcon the importance of the past avatar being the mentor to the current avatar? Tenzin doesn't even try to push her to connect with Aang. No one days, not Katara or the white lotus

>>92089682
>S01 makes a point of it that she was bad at bending until she got proper lessons.
I like to imagine that she advanced so quickly because she had given water bending so much thought and experimented so much on her own that when someone finally showed her how to do it properly, she knew from experience why the things she was shown was done a certain way, because she had experienced all the problems and limitations that these techniques had been designed to work around.

File: Luke_Skywalker_trains_a_Ben_Solo_on_the_forest_m.jpg (385KB, 568x900px) Image search: [Google]

385KB, 568x900px

I like the part where the emo villain who was brainwashed by an authority figure turned his back on the evil empire after getting a facial scar and became a troubled yet vital part of the hero team. Bonus points if the uncle, who feels like they failed them deep down for not protecting them, ends up vital in them finding their way.

>>92090659
Extra bonus if the emo villain is related to Mark Hamill

>>92087807

Azula isn't crazy.

>>92090987

They randomly made Azula a paranoid schizophrenic for a very large amount of time between the second half of Book 3 and the end of the Search.

She gets better but by the time she does, Zuko can't beat her in Smoke and Shadow.

>>92086712

The fact that Zuko still desired his father's approval after being burned and banished by the guy says a lot about his character.

Imagine if Aang or Iroh were in that situation, they would take it as a sign that they're simply not meant to be Fire Lord and live a carefree life wandering the seas on the royal family's dime.

If Azula were in Zuko's position, she'd aspire to assassinate her father and take the position by force, just to spite Ozai.

The fact that all Zuko ever wanted was his father's approval after the horrible childhood he had says a lot about how fundamentally good
a person his character is. Stubborn and short-sighted, but always seeking to fulfill his duties to the best of his abilities.

>>92086447
>as much formal training as he had

Where?

>>92091551

>If Azula were in Zuko's position, she'd aspire to assassinate her father and take the position by force, just to spite Ozai.
Nah I don't see this at all. She's really really hurt when Ozai leaves her to conquer the Earth Kingdom. Azula loves Ozai and is terribly afraid of being treated like Zuko,and she outright says as much. It would destroy her to be banished.

>>92091475

She just had a breakdown.

>>92091674

"Breakdown" isn't a defined condition, its an umbrella term for a time-limited mental disorder that leaves someone unable to function.
Visual/auditory hallucinations and paranoid delusions (like what Azula experiences) fit right into paranoid schizophrenia. She's a paranoid schizophrenic going through a breakdown.

At any rate, "crazy" (as ugly as a term as it is) is what they were going for. That's why she's thrown into an asylum as opposed to a prison.

>>92091635

Yeah, but that's because Ozai favored her and treated her well. So when he left her, she was hurt because he was the only person who supposedly cared about her. Meanwhile, she hated her mother just because her mother found her sociopathic behavior disturbing.

I'm saying that if Azula's childhood had been as bad as Zuko's, she would've grown up to be even more evil. Meanwhile, Zuko, despite his struggles, was always a decent, even in Season 1. If I remember correctly, in one S1 episode he risked his life to save a member of his crew whom he didn't even get along with.

>>92088801
Well, he was smarter in korra.
Still wouldn't say he became obi wan.

>>92086447
Katara and Toph were both expressly conveyed as geniuses in their element, especially Toph, while it was hammered home pretty early on that Zuko was pretty shitty or at best average up until the sun worshippers episode where he changed styles.

And Aangs the goddamn avatar, who is also basically a genius too since he managed to gain competency in all elements when he was a teen that would normally take an avatar until at least their mid twenties.

That's just kind of how the show had to be in order for the Avatars group to be considered a capable threat when they're all young teens, Zuko had to get the short end of the stick because he was older than the team but needed to be at generally the same level.

>>92091873

Oof.

>Yeah, but that's because Ozai favored her and treated her well. So when he left her, she was hurt because he was the only person who supposedly cared about her.
Oh I see, so you are talking about this scenario if Ozai had always put her on Zuko-tier? Even then I'm not sure, large part of her vengeful and aggressive behavior is specifically because that is what she thinks of as being a strong and worthy Fire Lord.

>she hated her mother just because her mother found her sociopathic behavior disturbing
Azula shows zero "sociopathic behavior" prior to Ursa leaving. She's hurt by her mother's attitude towards her. Azula rarely says "it hurt" but she says how much it hurt that her mother acted that way towards her. If she flatly just hated her mother, it wouldn't have hurt the way that it did.

But I agree with you, Zuko is a good kid. He's even still caring towards Azula and Ozai.

>>92092038
Torturing animals is a sign of sociopathic behaviour in children
So is playing with fire

Was Azula a bedwetter?

>>92092150

Don't try diagnosing her, the most she can get is conduct disorder.

>>92086447
It was kind fo disappointing how little the whole sun warrior thing ended up amttering. I was thinkin Zuko would get special fire of his own to match Azula with or something.

He doesn't even really redirect lightning.

>>92092250
Id rather Zuko just grow in power after the sun warrior thing rather than becoming a special snowflake with his own fire type, would have made his face off against Azusa way less interesting.

> Doesn't even really redirect lightning

What?

>>92086976
I think Katara was good but don't discount the fact that she was power grinding for a year straight. Pretty much every time we see her she's either using waterbending for basic daily life chorse or in life and death struggles.

With that amount of constant use it's kind of unfair to compare her to students in class that are in comfortable spars.

This is also why Korra kind of sucks.

>>92092038
>Azula shows zero "sociopathic behavior" prior to Ursa leaving.
>Teasing your brother that your dad is going to literally kill him is just fine.

>>92092368
I forgot Ozai. I just remembered that he got wrecked by Azula's in the finale.

>>92092531

> He got wrecked by Azula's in the finale

Sure but that's literally only because Azula cheated and involved Katara in the duel by shooting the lightning at her. Zuko had to dive and redirect the lightning in mid-air, which is pretty impressive, even if he got fucked up.

>>92087104
I think that either zuko alone or the firebending masters was the best episode in terms of zuko

>>92087213
>All kids
>she's a kid

>>92087104

> surpassed his sister.

Not really, Zuko only faced her 1v1 because he thought he'd actually have a chance because she was going crazy.

Though it is true that he probably would have won if Azula hadn't cheated.