Disney has ABC News make an editorial on how fans should calm

>>92033117
Americans are so whiney.

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>>92033117

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

shaking and crying rn

>>92033117
B-b-but outraged fans sell comics! They should keep him hydra forever if it makes people mad!

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>>92033117

>>92033117
>I guess the non-buying outrage over it

That's exactly Marvel's problem. No one is buying their comics and they're panicking.

>>92033254
It's funny cause the guy who said that they're selling comics when the fans are angry is the one editing this whole storyline.

>>92033117

>people that don't even read the actual fucking comics
>got shared the screengrab of Cap saying this and instantly blew up because they watched some movies with Captain America in it
>libnazis themselves get angry of a drawing referring to a nazi analogue

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>read our shitty story for two years before hating it
yeah, ok marvel.

>>92033117
>"D-don't worry, guys, Cap is gonna defeat Hydra in the end. Pl-please buy Secret Empire."

>>92033117
>Marvel: Outrage means sales! We'll be rich! Make them more angry! Give Nazi Cap his own event! Make him worthy of Mjolnir! Sky's the limit because outrage equals money!

>*Marvel sales go down the toilet*

>Marvel: PLEASE DON'T BE OUTRAGED, FOLKS, THAT WAS NEVER OUR INTENTION

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>>92033257
>Nick SPENCER
>Richard SPENCER

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>>92033117
Will this be the end of marvel's outrage tactics?

Will pic related never be relevant ever again?

>>92033298
>people are still clinging to the "the haters don't even read comics!" excuse

Marvel's sales began to tank right around when the Nazi Cap outrage hit its peak, but sure, keep telling yourself that's just a coincidence.

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Beautiful, simply beautiful.

How badly will Marvel throw Nick Spencer under the bus if the Batman/Flash crossover [spoilers]and just for fun a regular Superman issue [/spoilers] once again beat out Secret Empire tomorrow as expected ? Will we finally have Alonzo, Quesada or Brevoort fired?

I don't even know what people are mad over, this story is literally a red kryptonite/mxy type deal. Cap is a hydra dude because of a mystical object/5d imp. Not hecause he actually turned coat or whatever.

>>92033298
Hey Nick, glad to see you're so famous: >>92033257

>>92033366
Marvel sales tanked with diversty not events or outrage which works for decades.

The casuals don't want diversity. Nor do old fans.

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>>92033117
Wait people thought HydraCap was going to be stay a thing? Is this like there first comic book or something?

>>92033117
This storyline is so bad that issue #1 isn't even out and Marvel is already telling people how it ends, and that it doesn't matter.

Secret Empire will go down as one of the most pathetic moments in comic book history. Ten years from now people will be defending shitty comics by saying "Well, at least it's not Secret Empire bad!"

On the plus side, at least the guys who wrote the Clone Saga must be happy to no longer be the creators of the most hated Marvel event ever.

>>92033117
Hilarious desu

>>92033421
Remember: this is the house that published OMD.

>>92033391
>Will we finally have Alonzo, Quesada or Brevoort fired?

Nah.

Nick Spencer is never writing a major title ever again, though.

>>92033391
That depends. They boosted the sales on #0 by including it in the Funko box last month. So orders on #0 and possibly even #1 might be skewed and if they rank higher on Comichron, then Marvel could point to that as a victory.

>>92033488
Spencer will be just fine

He and Ewing are the guys marvel is trying to push since Hickman, Remender, Fraction, KSD, and soon Lemire are gone

>>92033450
Civil War 2 was worse quality wise.

Secret Empire came out at the worst timing possible.

>>92033421
>Is this like there first comic book or something?
Guess.

>>92033414
Except, you know, Marvel's been doing the diversity thing for three years before sales dropped.

Ms. Marvel was in 2013. It was a sales hit.

Jane as Thor was in 2014. It was also a sales hit.

Sam as Cap was later in 2014. This, too, was a sales hit. And all those books stayed popular throughout 2015.

When sales dropped, they went down across the line. If your precious diversity boogeyman were to blame, only the diverse books would have suffered. And it would have happened years ago.

Keep up that damage control, Spencer sure does need it.

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>people getting this mad over comics they don't read

For what purpose

>>92033117
>spoils the story to appease casuals who wouldn't buy it anyway
Funny.

>>92033421
>Is this like there first comic book or something?
That implies they broke their trend of not reading comics with this one.

So what IS the deal with Cap joining Hydra

>>92033414
I don't think it's diversity, the problem is it was all too close together. If it wasn't Miles, Thor, Ironheart, Cap, and on and on and on all at the same time, it wouldn't be a big deal. It's just too much change at the same time.

I mean, yeah, there's definitely an element of racism, but I think it's mostly change overload.

>>92033391
>Will we finally have Alonzo, Quesada or Brevoort fired?

Quesada doesn't really oversee the comics anymore as far as I know. He's usually overseeing TV and animation with Jeph Loeb, IIRC.

Alonso and Brevoort, depends on how well or how badly this does. I'd be more concerned in Brevoort's case because not only was his name in the editor credits for both Civil War II and Spencer's HydraCap/Secret Empire, he's also the one who said that "when the fans are angry, [they're] selling comics" in >>92033178

>>92033596
Cosmic Cube stuff.

>>92033559
Don't forget, Black Panther got an ongoing last year, and issue #1 was the third best selling Marvel issue of the year. Not bad for a company being "killed by diversity."

>>92033450
But it's not a bad story. That's the frustrating part. People are pissed because Cap isn't being portrayed the way they think he should be. The story behind that is good, but that's not what's going to be remembered about the event.

the weirdest part of this is that sites that employ actual comic readers agree that this is a good move for cap (IGN,CBR have published articles for Hydra Cap, Polygon and other shit have rejected it constantly)

>>92033644
>issue #1
>selling well
YOU DON'T SAY?

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>>92033563
>people getting this mad over comics they don't read

Well, that's inevitable since no one else is reading Marvel these days either.

>>92033596
Red Skull kidnapped a sentient cosmic cube and told her that Hydra was super cool so she turned Cap into a Hydra agent.

>>92033117
How are they going to scrub off Captain America becoming King Hitler

Is there anyone in the comic industry today sadder than Nick Spencer?

>>92033644
>Black Panther got an ongoing last year, and issue #1 was the third best selling Marvel issue of the year
Now look at the #2 sales drop.

>>92033178
It was funny until this point...
>Marvel blames DC for Marvel's sales dropping
HOLY SHIT!

>>92033644
Black Panther is a legacy character, though. When people say "the problem is diversity" they don't mean "boo darkies." They mean "stop replacing loved character with gender/race swapped versions."

>>92033563
So they can feel good about being on the "right" side without actually having to do anything.

>>92033178
>DC Universe: Rebirth? That was the trial run. Marvel wins.
It's hilarious EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.

>>92033680
Probably reboot the universe again. Or trade him for a proper cap from another universe.

>>92033680
Cosmic cube shenanigans are going to erase this whole event so only Cap will remember it.

The way these properties are handled seems so manufactured, like they're new processors or phones or something.

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What's especially amusing is that Marvel has no one to blame for this but themselves. Casuals wouldn't be whining about comics they don't read if it weren't for the MCU.

>>92033178
I've been to Daydreams Comics. kinda shit. Geek City was nicer, only problem is its off campus

>>92033679
Of note, shouldn't hydra have become super cool if reality was altered to match what the cube was told?

>>92033671

Marvel put out over two dozen #1's last year and Black Panther beat all but two of them.

>>92033681
Slott, Uncle Fester

>>92033688

That sounds pretty funny, I don't see the problem.

>>92033254
>outraged fans
There's the problem. The people that are outraged aren't fans. Or, at the very least, they aren't comic fans. They're almost exclusively MCUfags, tumblrites, and the like.

>>92033687
The #2 sales drop was big, but still smaller than most Marvel #2's. It still came out ahead in the long run. Keep shilling for Spencer, anon.

>>92033758
Red Skull didn't want the world handed to him, though. His primary motivation was having Steve as his bitch.

>>92033736
Because they're just ip farms so Wb and disney can keep shit and have ideas for movies and tv shows.

It became very obvious around 2011 with marvel starting to shove their synergy everywhere, and new 52 which was a pretty corporate run reboot in hindsight, what with the executive positions changing just a year prior

>>92033786
And the problem with that is that Marvel intentionally and unintentionally tried to diminish the fans who actually read their comics in order to chase new audiences.

And then this thing happens, pissing off the potential new audiences they were chasing after, and now only maybe a fraction of non-shills are willing to defend them.

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>>92033559
All those sales declined eventually of the fad. It's the full on diversity with the gays and feminists rants that made people quit. Vast majority of fans boycotted the changes as well.

You cannot complain and decree you dropped jane thor yet say you stuck around.
Outrage is nothing new either. There was lots of senpaitachi letter back when Gwen died. Even death threats.

I honestly think senpaitachi today don't really read the books and demamd a safe mcu style universe. Or are getting 1960s DC tone mixed up with Marvel.

Anyone who complains about Nazi cap most have not read the bajillion times it happemed in books.

>>92033766
Proof or poof.

>>92033156
Truth.

>>92033839
>bajillion times

See now I know you're fake

>>92033854

The proof is where it's been for a while now, newfag.

On comichron.

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016.html

>>92033117
>Please buy our book. It has a happy ending and things will turn back to how it was before! We promise! Please buy it.

>>92033156
Being a little bitch is my constitutional right.

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>>92033875
Read the comics. Stop watching cartoon versions or spidey crappy super stories.

>>92033903
That reminds me, I finally realized the artist on that Big Trouble in Little China/Escape From New York crossover is the guy who drew that Batman fancomic where someone wrote Batman and Joker dying to a Bill Hicks quote and that Superman fancomic where Old Superman destroys the Earth.

>>92033938
Ok girly boy.

>>92033942
>two comics
>bajillion times, guys!

>>92033301
Another flaw with the American comic model. Two years worth of content here is pathetically small compared to two years of a manga series.

>>92033754
Also synergy. If they didn't try and make the comics a 1:1 match with the MCU casuals wouldn't have taken notice

>>92033421
That's what happens when you seek the attention of people who never read comics. Part of me wants to feel bad out of pure empathy but this is the equivalent of someone willingly throwing themselves to the lion while giving you the finger if you try to stop them.

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>>92033942

>How could you do dis to your lovink fuehrer??

>>92033903
So, explain why Marvel doesn't sell.

>>92033839
You motherfucker, it's because the diversity came paired with shitty stories. Comic readers really aren't going to care much about minority characters being pushed if their comics are entertaining. But when you've got Miles who had nothing to him besides "black Spiderman," Riri who has all the depth of a piece of paper, Nadia whose entire book is GIRLS IN STEM GRRL POWER, and Sam Wilson who, when he isn't recapping the previous issues, is shown to be impotent and useless, people start to realize that maybe these minority characters weren't made because people have stories to tell with them, but just so Marvel can look hip with the kids and their groovy progressivism.

I wish these articles just explained what altering reality is to the idiots online as if they were toddlers.

>>92033839
That's not Steve Rogers, but an unnamed goon masquerading as as him.

>>92033942
While here, Steve was brainwashed and released in the span of an issue.

Stop being a faggot ant copy pasting stuff you find on the internet, faggot.

>>92034025
Because their comics are garbage and they're too reliant on crossovers and events

>>92033971
Doesn't matter. Only retards are crying about Nazi Cap.

Why should I put out and educate cartoon casuals like you? Ones who were babied with softer universes.

>>92034066
Also they're too expensive

4.99 #1s and $10 issues with a bunch of shitty side stories were the worst ideas they've had among the mistakes they've been making

>>92034033
Tl dr. Long angry rants.

>>92034048

One of Caps early freinds is a "faggot". Another casual trying to deflect that steve is once again brainwashed by the cube again. Only in decompression. But your short attention span is your fault.

>>92033839
Fuck off namefag

>>92034076
Because you're a casual pretending to be an expert.

>>92034111
>One of Caps early freinds is a "faggot".
Then that shouldn't offended you, faggot.

>>92034076
>You're only mad because you're ignorant
>Why should I correct your ignorant misconceptions?
>Wow fucking casuals getting mad because they're ignorant pisses me off
I'm not the person you're conversing with, but I thought I should point out your thought process to you, since you seem to be unaware of his self-defeating it is.

>>92034111
>Tl dr. Long angry rants
Not an argument

I'm surprised Marvel is even letting this get the full 10 issues Jesus really 10 issues instead of cutting it and tie-ins down. You could just make filler stories to help bridge things to Legacy at this point. This is going to do nothing but poison that relaunch and it's not like Marvel's done much to give Legacy a positive outlook.

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>>92034111

Jesus, the shilling is real

>>92034234
They claim it's going to be their last big event for 18 months so they probably want to milk it for all it's worth and hopefully it's not worth much

>>92034234
>This is going to do nothing but poison that relaunch

Good, because Legacy is Rebirth without the sincerity and reeks of apathy.

>Hey we're bringing everybody back, but all the minority characters are still there
>What's a mutant? Have more Inhumans instead!

>>92033598
Brevoort is safe because he's the last old school guy left at Marvel and if he goes there's literally no one left who can keep track of the characters.

He's to Marvel what Al Jean is to the Simpsons.

Alonso clearly has no real interest in super heroes, but it's harder to get fired than it used to be. Bob Harras has lasted longer as DC editor in chief than at Marvel even though his failures at DC have been even more obvious.

But angry fans sell more books a hur durr derp.

>>92034324
>What's a mutant?
They have like ten fucking books

>>92034351
Brevoort kind of walked back that comment when he reblogged Jordan White's defense, in >>92033178

Tumblr is taking this shit way too seriously.
They seriously believe that this comic will bring Hitler back from the dead. I agree that Hydra Magneto was a bad move but even that's a variant cover. People need to chill out.

>>92034439
No they need to get angrier

Marvel needs to learn a lesson

>>92034439
>Tumblr is taking this shit way too seriously.
News at 11.

>>92033117
>http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/marvel-captain-americas-turn-hydra-hear-concerns/story?id=47136145

lol, that secret empire 002 teaser at the end

>h-hey, don't worry about Cap
>remember our netflix shows?

>>92034383
And it's O5, OML and Laura playing dress-up as Wolverine. Cyke is dead and worse than Hitler, Logan is in carbonite, Xavier still dead, Jean still dead, Storm I don't even know, Beast is an ass.

I don't think the problem is "diversity" so much as that Marvel actively pushed (and used shills in the media to push) the idea that they were the progressive, forward-looking company. They did this because they thought this was good business in the glorious Millennial future.

But if you sell yourself as the progressive company then you have to deal with the fact that the left is constantly eating its own. So they have to put out press releases like this groveling to people who feel "hurt" by Cap being HYDRA, even though they know full well that no one is actually hurt by this.

So nobody's happy with Marvel. If they'd just made Jane Thor and Sam Cap without trying to market this as a great leap forward for all humankind, they would not be in the same boat.

>>92034457
What lesson?

Don't write anything slightly controversial because it'll piss off people who don't read comics?

I can't imagine what uproar you retards would be making if dark reign happened when your clickbait shit and "progressive" rage was everywhere.

>implying cap ever sold well
Nigga is the Carol Danvers of his time. Despite not selling as much as the X-men, F4, spider-man, or even Hulk he gets pushed to the front as the premier marvel hero.

>>92034508
Write good stories instead of relying on outrage, variants, and crossovers and events.

>>92034495
I've hated Jane Thor from the start because it's the Thor character.

I wouldn't care if it was Jane as the new Valkyrie: Protector of Earth

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>>92034457

Here's my idea, don't buy the comic, tell your friends not to buy it either but don't force them or REEE them into not buying them

>you can't do that! you're just a entitled manchild, buy my comic REEEEEEEE

The shilling needs to fucking stop already

>>92034491
There is a difference between no mutants and not muh mutants. The X-men have more books and gold/blue have more variant covers than pretty much any non event book, and there is X-men variant covers for most of the books coming out. Marvel jumped back on the mugga train but hasn't unfucked the story.

>worse than hitler
Everyone knows that was Emma now.

>>92034561
Hydra Cap is a good story though. You just don't read comics and shitpost on /co/.

>>92034582
Nah, marvel has shitty business practices and needs to be forced to look at what the are doing wrong

Legacy confirmed they learned barely anything and are just copying rebirth

The only good thing they said is said no major events for 18 months

>>92034457
I get what your saying.
Maybe this will get them to stop with the events because the backlash for this is huge.

>>92034561
What about the good stories that will never be written because they're controversial enough to make one of those tumblries get red in anger again. Should no one ever write them ever?

>>92034623
So, one good book out of 100+ they publish every month, all while tying it to at least a dozen other books for what history tells us will be the rough patch in those book's stories.

Great, marvel's better already.

>>92034691
refer back to the second sentence.

>>92034720
What comics are good then?

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>>92034630

Say whatever you want about the "Outrage sales" meme but truth is Outrage does sales, you make this a into something bigger and controversial and that issue will fly off the shelves

>>92034623
I think it is an interesting story, but it's 100% a "What If" story and it's coming only a year after Secret Wars, which interrupted every title for another "What If" story.

Every event is either a "What If" or another attempt to recapture the sales magic of Civil War. It almost makes me nostalgic for stupid character derailing murder mysteries like Identity Crisis. At least those were easy to tie in with.

>>92034782
People are angrier at marvel than ever and yet DC managed to outsell them in units last month despite having the only #1s be oneshots nobody cares about.

Outrage farming is sooooo 2014.

>>92034835
And looking at it, technically Batwoman as well, though she had a rebirth #1 too.

>>92034533
Nice try, casual

>>92034737
Fuck it just to prove you wrong

Uncanny Avengers
Captain America: Steve Rogers
The Amazing Spider-Man
Deadpool
Spider-man and Deadpool
Elektra
Hulk
Ultimates

>>92034893

This should be stipulated as Duggan and Kelly writing well.

Zub is taking over Uncanny Avengers and it is going to eat ass.

>>92034893
So, nothing?

>>92034835
It's hard to get outrage sales when nobody takes the stories seriously. What you want is for the audience to believe in the story & get mad because they believe in it.

Like Avengers Disassembled sucked, but people believed that it was dismantling the old Avengers and fucking over beloved characters, because it was true. So the old-school fans hate-bought it and the new fans were curious about this new Avengers thing.

Nobody believes Cap is actually turning evil and anyone who says they believe it is lying to get attention. Just like nobody believed Civil War 2 would have any actual consequences. Events have become like deaths.

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>>92034893
I'd give you Ultimates if it still had good art.

>>92033117
Why do normies care so much now?

It's all none comic book readers outrage, they'll move on and get mad at something else in a few months don't appease them.

>>92034331
>Brevoort is safe
I'm in awe of Brevoort knowledge and the history he has in comcis but he hasn't half shit the bed when it comes to his books these past couple of years.

Genuinely interested in why that's been though, too much work? not hands on enough? delegating too much to his assistants?

>the one possible for /co/ loving marvel again
>make DC BTFO on a regular basis
>make cap good again
>make people realize how shitty rebirth is

Is there anything Spencer can't do?

>>92034970
Probably a talent drought has something to do with it. Mark Waid would not get the Avengers if they could get a more exciting/bigger selling writer on it. (Though he was up for the job a couple of times in the '90s, but he was more popular back then.) He's there because he's reliable.

>>92034835

The way i see it outrage only sells in small bursts

>>92035030
This mostly

Anger eventually turns to apathy and/or people will look for something that makes them happier.

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>>92034893
>Uncanny Avengers
Is the art any better? I bought the first trade and the story wasn't good enough for me to get over the garbage art.

There was a part in the first issue where they were fighting a "robot goo thing", and legit everything looked like an octopus because the artist didn't know how to draw limbs.

>>92035026
I guess the drain does have an affect but that should be another thing he's trying to fix.

With Waid though, he's coming off having an all time run with Daredevil. Makes sense to give him a big book.

>>92034929
I think the problem is that for years Marvel was trying to chase other audiences at the expense of the audience that actually read the books. And then when the core audience complained, Marvel easily dismissed those complaints and took shots at the fans because they figured new fans will replace them.

So in the last few years they were still doing this method in order to chase another new audience, but then they ended up pissing off the new audience too soon. So now they have a fractured core audience and a pissed off new audience that may not even be buying comics but providing Disney with bad PR.

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Hydra Cap is literly one of the best books Marvel has, its so sickening how much ignorant hate on it their is on tumblr and Twitter i mean if you actually read the book you know that this is Hydra reality altering and not a retcon

you'd have to be an idiot to beleive this is something thats gona stick forever

>>92034893
Ah, I suspected you were just /co/ntrarian so it's nice to have confirmation

>>92034970
Talent drought and too much work. Ike sacked a lot of editors in 2011. I mean you can definitely criticize the books from when Quesada came on board to 2011, but there seemed like a dip over this decade that grew faster each year.

>>92034967
Because the MCU made capes fashionable among them.

>>92035121
Man they look way too gangly.

>>92035159
>Hydra Cap is literly one of the best books Marvel has
It's sad how this is true

Well, how mad would people be if the conclusion to this was similar to "Gorr was right"?

>>92033756
Geek City is shit, it's hard to get to and their non-big two selection is terrible last time I went.

Daydreams is great. Plus it's comics+merch only, no fucking MtG

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>tfw nobody would complain if they made him gay for Bucky

>>92034582
>tell your friends not to buy it either
My what?

>>92033450
Civil War 2 or Secret Empire. Which is more pathetic?

>>92035308
One Million Moms and Disney executives would complain.

Maybe some priests would join in.

This isn't even news. I guess abc has no journalistic integrity

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>>92035308
Worked out really well with Bobby.

>>92035325
Civil War 2
Not only was it a shitty story and a cheap cashgrab, but the people working on bragged how quickly they wrote it. It affected every book and was constantly delayed. Bendis is also a worse writer than Spencer.

>>92035298
>no fucking MtG
What's wrong with LCSes wanting to stay in business?

I think what separates "Secret Empire" from most other Marvel events is that nobody wanted this. That is, nobody but Spencer had the idea to say "Hey, what if Captain America was a HYDRA agent? Wouldn't it be crazy if Steve were HYDRA and took over SHIELD?" This is a story that nobody was asking for.

And the same goes for "Civil War II" as well. I'd be hard-pressed to find any recent Marvel event that anybody was outright asking for or interested in seeing play out.

>>92035325
Civil War 2, no contest.

At least Secret Empire was build up too and they haven't bragged about how quick it took to think up of.

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>>92035121
That art lasted like 2-3 issues it's fine now

>>92034970
I don't think Brevoort is actually good at editing events. He's been in charge of most of them since Marvel brought back line-wide events in 2004, but I can't think of a one that was actually good. Maybe House of M was sort of good if you overlook the hideous consequences.

This underwhelming event thing goes back as far as 2000's event, Maximum Security, which Busiek and Brevoort cobbled together when Marvel's schedule didn't allow them to do their preferred event... "Y2Kang." Serious.

>>92035088
>>92034929
I think one thing that really screws "outrage sells" is that I don't have to buy a comic that pisses me off to know what happens. I pirated Superior Spiderman just to see what was happening, even though I overall disliked the comic. Christ, you can always just read a damn wiki. Comics can be a pretty expensive hobby, why would I want to spend money on a comic that's constructed to piss me off?
I also think that the "outrage" they're producing isn't the right kind of outrage. A story can make you mad and still be good. The problem is that most of the "outrage" they'r making feels manufactured. It feels like they're just throwing stuff in your face going "Doesn't this make you mad? Doesn't this piss you off?" There's no emotional attachment for me.

>>92035121
They're made out of beef jerky

>>92035697
This.
The whole "No Such Thing as Bad P.R." shtick is an outdated concept

>>92035325
Civil War 2.

All the stuff leading up to Secret Empire is not outright terribly written. Yes, there are things which are obviously attempts to rile up the audience, and it's not good as people on here claim it is, but it's not a completely horrible comic, nor is it a horrible comic in the way Civil War 2 is. At least Secret Empire appeared to have a point to the actions. CW2 felt like someone was going through the motions to hit event beats.

>>92035617
Have you seen Millar's pitch for Civil War? It was even worse than the final product. Or the Secret Invasion stuff where Brevoort had to get the X-Men editor to tell Bendis that Bendis' take on Agent Brand was wrong?

>>92035799
Brevoort seems like he's outnumbered and outgunned. You can't keep the shit out if it's all shit.
Like, wasn't Millar's pitch for Secret Invasion that Hulk came back with and army of cannibal Hulk babies? What the hell do you do in that situation?

>>92033402
I'd say combination of that kind of story being stretched out over a year, having lined up with Cap's 75th anniversary, terrible timing in that they chose to do this as the story after we just got Cap back from being both old and replaced and just how smug Marvel's been the whole time expecting everyone to be fine with such a controversial story while they have Cap trample on everything he ever stood for

>>92033808
But, Steve's new hydra values would follow the line of "hydra is suoer cool" instead of following hydra's original values. This would make anyone in hydra who is not in line with what the cube was told hydra is a traitor to hydra in steve's eyes.

>>92035869
>Like, wasn't Millar's pitch for Secret Invasion that Hulk came back with and army of cannibal Hulk babies?

Yes.

And to be fair though Brevoort has his share of bad ideas too, just look at the Brand New Day Spider-Manifesto, which sounds good on the surface but is really a pretty bad reading of Spider-Man.

>>92035872
The whole thing is suffering from the Fear Itself/AXIS effect honestly, where Marvel took one writer's ongoing arc and decided to make it an Event

>>92035907
You know, I don't agree with "censorship" in a creative medium.
But Millar really, really needs and editor to slap him down hard every now and then. The man can't control his Edge.

It's so strange to see people sperging about this it's obviously just an event that won't mean shit this time next year like Dark Reign. Feels like Disny is spending a ton of money to make a fake controversy.

>>92033559
Diversity = ANAD

>>92035974
It's not really censorship when you try to figure out how to modify the book into something that's readable.

And to be fair I think Millar's been doing a better job of that in the last few years compared to his edgemode before.

>>92036022
Why didn't they try to create new heroes rather than forcing new characters into old names.

>>92035976
That would be dumb since the sales didn't increase significantly on Cap last year.

A more believable theory is that it's a fight between Marvel Studios (Feige and the films) and Marvel Entertainment (Ike and the TV shows, animation, and comics). Rich Johnston said in an article, "And I am aware that Marvel Studios has a thing for making Disney HQ aware of negative headlines regarding the comics side." It's more believable to think Marvel Entertainment has shills that go here to praise Secret Empire while tearing down GOTG 2 rather than Disney paying money to Tweeters to create a fake controversy.

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>>92033156
some of you Americans are alright, don’t go to the comic store this Wednesday, big happening coming

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>>92035159
I feel like Spencer is aping Hickman's Secret Warriors with some mindfucked Steve as classic Marvel outrage gimmick fodder

HYDRA in the past and the current movies was tied to the Nazis. Red Skull, Armin Zola, and Baron Strucker are 3 of biggest. Marvel should have been more blatant spent more time doinwith the THEY ARE NOT NAZIS YOU GUYS! the audience they've been courting ain't gonna go back read older runs, hell they hardly read the current stuff

>>92036248
>don’t go to the comic store this Wednesday, big happening coming
We'll send the FBI in our name.

>>92036150
His wife probably plays a role in that. She apparently was the one that convinced him to publicly disavow The Unfunnies as a shit book.
Also you're right, "Censorship" is the wrong word in this case. I was thinking more about the mandated changes to his run on The Authority, though even those are a bit iffy.

>>92035400
nobody cares about Iceman

>>92036293
rude

>>92033117
This is what happens when you start pandering to casuals. They don't understand serialized story telling and think this will be a permanent thing instead of any gimmicky event to generate outrage and sales. At least they got the latter but not the former. Honestly I'm wondering why there wasn't this level of outrage when SpOck became a thing

>>92036264
TBF most moviegoers are aware that HYDRA is not the Nazis. Tumblr tried to get an outrage thing going about Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch being HYDRA experiments (because they are the HALF-JEWISH HALF-GYPSY CHILDREN OF MAGNETO!eleven!) and it didn't go anywhere.

It's just easier to get outrage things going with comics because the audience is so small and the press coverage is so dumb. But most people who freak out are aware that HYDRA is not the Nazis and this story is not an insult to Jack Kirby's memory, they're just playing dumb for clicks.

That said a big weakness of the first Cap movie is it didn't just having him fighting Nazis like Indiana Jones. Spielberg has said he wouldn't do it that way today because it trivializes the war, but that's why Spielberg today isn't the filmmaker he used to be.

>>92036264
Yeah I mean I get people's defenses by saying that "Hydra isn't Nazis" but the problem is that MCU and even Marvel itself didn't shy away from comparing Hydra to Nazis. I mean wasn't there a Hydra Youth in a comic recently?

The only thing I'm actually offended by is that people are using Jack Kirby when he was pretty much starting out his career in the 40's as a point of arguement. Kirby's life's work was a lot more varied and diverse beyond simple military propaganda. Hell, I've always seen the New God Orion as a deconstruction of Cap and a criticism of Just War theory.

Given Kirby's staunch anti-authoritarian views, I'd imagine he'd actually find the concept behind Secret Empire to be quite intriguing and thought-provoking. He'd definitely slap Marvel upside the head for using cheap controversy to sell books rather than to provoke thought, but the idea of HydraCap would probably be fine by him.

>>92036398
>Spielberg has said he wouldn't do it that way today because it trivializes the war
Wow, he went full Ennis.

>>92033681

Probably not, because Spencer has actual potential. Superior Foes was fucking gold, and I'd love if he did more stuff like it. He's a great comedy writer, especially in the post-Seinfeld era. But the Secret Empire stink is going to be an albatross around his neck for the rest of his career.

>>92036390
Actually this is a good question because unlike HydraCap, SpOck really boosted sales up on the title and stayed higher than the BND sales level.

>>92036154
Don't ask me, ask them or the faggot I responded to.

Seems like common sense to me.

>>92035020

Keep his mouth closed?

Stay off Twitter?

Take criticism?

Write?

>>92035020
>>the one possible for /co/ loving marvel again

No we don't. Most of the people who like HydraCap on here dislike the rest of Marvel.

>>92036478
Probably because Superior wasn't a massive Crossover Event.

>>92036426
It's weird how some people online have adopted Cap as sort of a liberal version of the Charles Bronson/Dirty Harry fantasy, of a strong man who will smite their enemies. You see people holding up Steve Rogers as a guy who was created to punch Nazis and therefore would be OK with beating up people they think are ruining the country.

It's a testament to how well Marvel has kept Steve relevant since bringing him back in the '60s, that he's not seen as an outdated symbol of the old America. But still. If

>>92036518
>>92036478
And Superior Spider-Man wasn't a What If. Marvel can keep insisting Secret Empire isn't either, but magically rewriting history is not the same as just having a villain disguised as the hero.

>>92034893
>Uncanny Avengers
>Captain America: Steve Rogers
>Deadpool
>Spider-man and Deadpool
>Ultimates
i'll give you these (though Duggan is leaving Uncanny) and additionally:
>Nova
>OML
>Moon Knight
but that's about it

>>92035020
all of your arguments are stupid, except for the Cap one. Well done.

>>92033301

take an hour out of your day, thats all it'll take to read pretty much everything that leads up to this (but also spend $150)

>>92036566

>You see people holding up Steve Rogers as a guy who was created to punch Nazis and therefore would be OK with beating up people they think are ruining the country.

I'm pretty sure the idea of a superhero in that sense is far more of a direct affront to Kirby's legacy than HydraCap could ever hope to be

did people really thought that Marvel will not turn cap back to the way he was?

>>92033278
>It's funny cause the guy who said that they're selling comics when the fans are angry is the one editing this whole storyline.
WHAT A UNEXPECTED TURN OF EVENTS

>>92033117

I'm surprised retards didn't get this upset over Superman being turned into a fascist dictator in Injustice

I guess nobody really gives two shits about Superman anymore.

>>92036154
They made Mosaic and he failed

and Moon girl might as well be a new character because nobody cared about Moon Boy

>>92036889
Who knows, the bitching and screaming of sjws and such is hardly logical. I'm just concerned if the writing is shit like CW2.

>>92036934
>I guess nobody really gives two shits about Elseworlds
Fixed, casual.

>>92036934
That wasn't a main continuity title...

>>92036949

Yeah I bet the people sending death threats to comic book writers over an event really have a firm grasp on multi-universe theory and "elseworlds," anon.

>>92036991
Yeah I bet you also forgot the game was about Superman fighting fascist dictator Superman, casual.

>>92033156
yep. sports and entertainment is serious business here in McDonald's Land.

>>92036991
>people sending death threats to comic book writers over an event
Sauce?

>>92036942

eh, Issue 0 was passable. I just hope that it will not go full CW2 on me.

>>92036934
Of course not

His comic is shit more often than not and so are his movies

And he hasn't had a video game or cartoon in forever

>>92037024

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2016/05/26/captain-america-writer-nick-spencer-sent-death-threats-on-social/

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>>92037071
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk

>>92036934
Yes, because Superman fighting a fascist Superman from another dimension where the Joker killed Lois and Metropolis is totally the same story as Superman turning out to have been a nazi since the beginning.

>b-b-but they don't actually read comics

Neither does /co/.

>>92037090

Sorry, is that not a /pol/-approved website? I don't care. It doesn't change the story.

>>92037112
No, it's a British newspaper. I.e. a waste of time.

>>92037071
WHERE'S THE DEATH-THREAT FUCKLEY?!

The closest thing in that article is a "kill yourself". That's like the opposite of a death-threat. It's just willing you to do it yourself.

>>92033421
Spider-Man sold his marriage to the devil, Hank Pym hit his wife once. There are some stories that forever change a character in the minds of readers, having the Axis win World War 2 for the Allies use the Cosmic Cube to change Captain America from being a sleeper agent for Hydra to help win the war is something that people are going to talk about for a few years.

>>92037124

All media is a waste of time, most of all 4chan.

>>92037173
It'll just be
>remember when Cap was a Nazi?
I don't see there being too much more depth to it since it's pseudo mind-control trickery or whatever you call cosmic cube shenanigans.

>>92033117
Disney has the Disney News Channel write about the Disney Comics Line in defense. Better be a disclaimer on that article.

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>Make the new Ms.Marvel a Muslim Girl
Sure, why not.
>Make the new Thor a Woman
Okay fine, odd, but the inscription really only demands the wielder be worthy. I just hope that the comic doesn't become a propaganda piece. (What the fuck ever happened to Donald Blake anyways?)
>Make Captian America into a Naz- I mean member of Hydra
I'm tapping out, gg everyone.

>>92033117
Honestly it was about time. Disvel needs to just stop making comics before they crash the industry completely.

>>92036154
New brands don't sell in a nostalgic market

>>92036316
but true

>>92035121

The artist in question had recently suffered a hand injury which fucked up his art in the first few issues really badly. He was soon replaced by Pepe Larraz, whom I legitimately believe is the best artist Marvel has right now.

>>92037178
Thanks for admitting you were lying.

>>92037308
Well, does GotG sort of count? Pretty sure there was no market for nostalgic value for them before the movie, there was a time where you couldn't go anywhere without seeing baby groot somewhere.

I hate the outrage over this. Cap getting brainwashed has happened like 3 or 4 times already. Why do normies suck out all the fun.

Hate the guy but spencer has been doing really good with his cap and I dont want the poor guy out of a job due peoples faggottry. Ugh people are so dumb I hate them.

>>92034171
>>92034216
>>92034255
You guys are right I'm a giant tool and I eat dicks, for once it wasn't OP who was the fag but me Batowl.

>>92036390
1 there was outrage and a lot of it

2 there was less pandering towards non comic readers

3 "this character is dead in spirit and replaced by a fat man who is one of his arch nemeses and also spidey is dead dead dead FOREVER" is less visceral than "this character who is meant to be America personafied and has those movies you enjoy is and always was a nazi except it's not a nazi like in the movies even though we kept trying to synergize because NOW this synergy makes us look bad"
(people are aware comic death is garbage and not gonna last long)

GotG nostalgiafags were like very few and they were mostly about the original Guardians and they weren't really excited for the first movie because of the "Not muh" factor

DnA is too recent to be nostalgia, and their fans only raged when Bendis took over and some people in /co/ were excited for the movie.

With the general audience? Eh not really then again no normie was really hyped for Iron Man when it was announced or for Thor or Cap.

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>>92036934
>Surprised people aren't upset over an alternate universe

>>92037939

Yeah man, remember how reasonable people were when batman used guns on people in Batman vs. Superman, or Superman snapped Zodd's neck in Man of Steel? They're just alternate universes, so nobody cared!

>>92036390
And you think gimmicks and cash grabs are a good thing?

>>92038065
Not an argument. Normies care more about movies than comics.

>>92038104

>not an argument

I love this meme

>>92038133
>meme
No, just the sad truth. Besides, why so mad?

>>92038167
because you people are saying mean things about Marvel when DC is a bazillion times worser

>>92038227
>Anonymous (78) 05/03/17(Wed)01:27 No.92038227
>(78)
I wasn't talking to you, Marvel shill.

>>92037243
>(What the fuck ever happened to Donald Blake anyways?)
He is the ALL-NEW ALL DIFFERENT Executioner last time I remember

>>92036154
They don't sell. By giving a new minority character a famous title you get both progressive points and brand loyalty.

>>92036248
Thanks senpai

>>92036795
The book that contains all the relevant issues was $35

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Hilarious.

>>92037820
>for once

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>>92034893
>Captain America: Steve Rogers
>The Amazing Spider-Man
>Deadpool
>Hulk

You can't be serious, those are fucking awful.

Funny enough, but I couldn't give two fucking shits about Cap books of any kind. I like the character, sure, but not enough to buy books on him.

Although I am just loving the new Bullseye series. Got my first 3 issues with back borders and sleeves and waiting on issue 4 this week. I am actually excited about a comic again since Waid's Daredevil.

The probem is NOT the story itself. Its the attitude of the Marvel staff online. Its the attitude of the woman in charge of the characters. Online they ooze arrogance, and smug hate for anyone that disagrees...like the entire left has done since Trump won. Now readers are stealing a page from the leftist handbook and boycotting people that insult them. Ban marvel creators from twitter and people might actually enjoy these stories. Too late now but ban them now and in 10 years they wil rebuild trust with the fans. Insulting your readers is not the best way to get them to spend money. Well, it does boost sales for the Distinguished Competition actually.

>>92033117
Holy shit don't acknowledge the idiots

>>92036934
>I'm surprised people weren't upset about an elseworlds story that presented itself as an elseworlds story

Apparently you don't read comics or play video games. Go figure

>>92039847
Fuck off /pol

The problem was with Bendis and other writers soapboxing about diversity issues, or at least their idea of which skin color or sexuality to soapbox about. And this was long before Komrade Cheeto herpaderped into public view.

>>92039847
>it's a "Trump is the key to all this" episode

Stop it. Get some help.

Marvel's business is sucking because their stories and decisions suck. That's the bottom line.

>>92039847
>Slott can't take criticism and stalks whoever does so
>Bendis, the writer Bendis ''Red hats gonna kill us all, literally 'nother SHOAH''
>Spencer is a nutjob
>SJWaid's ass is stuck at the top of an ivory tower
>Degenerates hired from tumblr/twitter because they come in cheap and no one else wants to write for Marvel

Am I missing anyone?

>>92033117
>Cap will be back to normal again at the end of the storyline.

No one was thinking otherwise. Heroes going heel and then coming back into the light so to speak is one of the most pathetically tired cliches in the medium.

Those two responses to me are simply wrong. You dont want to see it but its true. Marvels staff has gone full leftist online. Just like the entire left has since November they have insulted half the country. Im not trying to say its al about Trump. Its actualy all about their reaction to Trump. They hate the election so bad they have lost focus. their jobs are to tell great stories, not argue with potential customers online. I happen to like the Hydracap story but I detest the attitudes of marvel staff. Marvel isnt the only company to hit rage mode since the election. several others have come right and said they dont want the business of conservative voters. Insulting your customers backfires every single time and it has blown up BIG LEAGUE in Marvels faces. Im not even saying that every one boycotting Marvel are doing it because they like Trump. Im saying people are reacting very strongly to the way Marvel staff acts online. If they had just shut up and told these stories...these same exact stories...everything wouldve been fine. Look at DC..theyve been doing diversity sexuality/gender/race changes themselves and no one was sperged out to the point of boycotts. Its all about Marvel letting their employees use social media. They cant hide their smugness and its a huge huge YUGE turn off for, obviously, the majority of fans.

>>92037820
Lol using my name. Pathetic butthurt man-babies.


I enjoy the tears.

>>92033421
The people that freak out about this stuff don't read comics.
the outrage is manufactured with the hope that people will read a short summary online go "I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS REAL" and then buy the comic to confirm

>>92040928
Its a dumb as fuck strategy to make people think, "This $5 comic sounds terrible! I simply have to spend $5 to hate it." maybe if books were still a buck they could pull that off but $5 for something you know youll hate?

>>92033820
>only maybe a fraction of non-shills are willing to defend them.
If by a fraction of non-shills, you mean "people who have actually read it." It's not some great comics, but it's still pretty good by capeshit standards. At the very least, it's better than most of what Marvel is currently putting out. The people bitching about Hydra Cap are the same people praising shit like America.

>>92039847
#NotMyMarvel

>>92033679
Second Question: Why was sentient cosmic cube in the shape of a loli?

>>92040748
The right hates it too.

>>92034835
>People are angrier at marvel than ever and yet DC managed to outsell them in units last month despite having the only #1s be oneshots nobody cares about.
>Outrage farming is sooooo 2014.
I think my LCS is dropping my Marvel titles FOR me.

Unless there hasn't been a Deadpool issue in like 3 months.

>>92033559
>Keep up that damage control, Spencer sure does need it.

Meh, I'm glad karma is finally catching up to Spencer's holier-than-thou ass.

>>92034967
Captain America's appearance as a brainwashed Hydra Agent doesn't match his appearance as an all around good guy in the movies. I Think Marvel is just writing bad comics in the hopes that the Russo Brothers will fix any mistakes in the eventual movie adaptation. Secret Empire is just a storyboard for a future Captain America Movie.

>>92040870
Hey man could you please leave the name field blank the next time you post? Thanks.

>>92041688
In the words of MCU Mordo, "the bill comes due"

>Marvel writers said it was forbidden, while they used the power to change DECADES worth of canon. Don't you see? Their deception led the readers to DCmammu. And here we are, in the consequence.

>>92040748
Steve saying Hail Hydra happened like, May-ish in 2016 and it had to have been planned at least a few months in advance of that. This bullshit wasn't a reaction to Trump. No one on the left thought Trump had a fucking chance in hell at that point.

It was just the usual fuck-you train from Marvel, using outrage to try to fuel comic sales as per usual.

I guess they haven't noticed the burnout. You can probably blame Diamond for that, since the stores are the ones who usually get saddled with the unsellable books.

>>92033786

Exactly this. Genderqueerfluids came all over Batwoman when she had her NYT charting book a few years back. Then immediately forgot about her because those people aren't comic book buyers. They like to think they saved gay superheroes (and this anti-Nazi Cap. shit is the same principle, face facts). But no, they said a few empty words, went back to Kotaku, and never bought a fucking comic.

Greg Rucka Batwoman having been pure fucking gold, I might add. Maybe because she was 100%, non-coy, gay as fuck but it wasn't her defining trait and she was involved in good stories and had a plot happening in her book. And 10/10 art.

Which other than a few fringe, loud dipshits, is all actual comics buyers care about. Pandering to non-fans and loudmouth whiners is what ruins any medium.

It's also why we can't have interesting or surprising stories in comics now. Nothing from the golden/silver age of comics would fly with either the normies or the hardcore fanboys now. Y'all just want the same handful of plots recycled over and over and over.

I don't have any real opinion as the the current plot people are shitting their diapers over but at least it's tried to do something comic-book-outrageous and attention-grabbing. It would have been far easier to just placate the boring tools and also incidentally the braindead tumblrites at the same time.

>>92041820
s/haven't/hadn't

they apparently have noticed it now, haha.

>>92041837
>Maybe because she was 100%, non-coy, gay as fuck but it wasn't her defining trait and she was involved in good stories and had a plot happening in her book.
she's still being written as a badass asskicker who happens to kiss girls and not as DC's star dyke who goes around scolding people who misgender trannies. So I guess at least it stuck.

>>92033679
He didn't kidnap her, one of her shards came from a cube Red Skull had attempted to use in the past and so she was drawn to him as a father figure. He just used her childlike naivety to make Hydra out to be heroes

>>92033117
Why are people angry? What is fundamentally different between this and shit like killing Cap a decade ago, or Ultimate Cap being a slave prick? None of that shit got big ultra negative reactions

>>92033421
>Is this like there first comic book or something?
Quite possibly yes.

>>92042302
Ult Cap isn't the 'real' Cap, he's just a toolbag from an alternate universe. That sort of thing might get people to drop Ultimate Marvel, at worst. they did it across the entire fucking line so eventually, yes, that is exactly what happened

Cap has died a half dozen times before he died in Civil War. Civil War was fucking stupid, but Cap dying wasn't anything new.

Marvel farming outrage wasn't anything new when Hail Hydra happened either, but the difference is like when a bully picks on that fat kid for seven years and then one day he picks up the lunch tray that was slapped out of his hand and beats the bully into the ICU with it.

The bully is Marvel and the beating is dropping literally every comic they fucking make.

>>92042302
because it's poorly written. much like superior spider-man, the concept is not inherently bad, it's just the execution makes it so just about every character other than apparently a couple of shield agents is apparently completely retarded for not realizing cap acting shifty and all the other plot twists.

>>92035697

Slott was my only real run I'd followed since I was a marvel newfag when Superior came out and I was buying floppies but quit cold turkey. I wasn't invested enough to continue, or even pirate issues, when it came out. I saw people interested in getting into comics just glaze over when clerks would describe it when it was current.

Newfags don't want swaps or identity changes. They know who Spider-Man is. They want to read stories about Peter Parker being a smart guy with super powers and fighting the villains. Even if you were totally blind and going in with fresh eyes that doesn't matter because then you don't know who Doctor Octopus is and why this is supposed to even matter.

>>92042427

It's always a straw that breaks the camels back, never a ton of iron, because nobody would realistically drop a ton of iron but everyone thinks they can justify one extra straw. You see the same shit everywhere. Shit even when GG happened it looked like the same bullshit back and forth /v/ and random game journos had literally every other week until suddenly it caught on.

>>92042427
>Cap has died a half dozen times before he died in Civil War
that isn't true though. He "died" at the end of World War 2 but that was never canonized until the 60s when he joined the Avengers. He gave up the shield several times, but he never actually died until Civil War. Of course, as soon as he came back he was in and out of the Captain America identity almost every other year, and Secret Empire seems to be leading up to him once again no longer being Captain America. People are just tired of it, on top of the story being mediocre overall.

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>>92043106
you hit the nail right on the head man

if you're a non-comic reader coming in it sounds terrible and you don't care. If you're a totally fresh face with no idea of what's going on you CAN'T care (because you don't have context) and if you've been around since you were six you're just pissed the fuck off.

>>92043106
I lost interest during Bendis Avengers, when all they were doing was talking about themselves, playing poker and eating chinese food.
Who wanted that?

>>92043328
back to /tv/ with you, casul

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/articles/the-many-deaths-of-captain-america/1100-149407/

>>92044172
>nearly all of them are faking his own death or don't last for more than an issue or two
>one of them is Infinity Gauntlet
those don't fucking count

>>92033421
Speaking as someone who knows people who are outraged over this, there are plenty of longtime comic readers who are pissed. They believe it's anti-Semitism to have a character created by Jews become a Nazi.

I don't agree with them, and I roll my eyes every time I see them froth over it. But it isn't just casuals and newbies who are angry about it.

>>92044081

It's the kind of thing that might be cool once in a blue moon, like Superman eating a soft pretzel between heroics. However Bendis fucking abuses the fuck out of that setup as a crutch.

>>92044236
if they don't then Civil War didn't count either because they did some fake-death bullshit with it too.

Any 'death' is usually a 'THEY FAKED THEIR DEATH!!!11' in comics.

Even Superman's death was actually 'a healing trance indistinguishable from death'.

>>92044273
It's a nice wind-down between arcs thing.

>>92033117
This is what is wrong with America. We could be fighting for more civil rights, or rallying to change things like faggot corrupt cops, but NAH. Be outraged by a storyline that hasn't been concluded yet to a comic book haters haven't even read.

>>92044269

This isn't just "a character that was created by Jews" this would be like if Batman was suddenly totting semi automatics and mowing down his rogue gallery.

Captain America was literally INVENTED to fight Nazis. There's a lot of needless dramatics happening here, and the source is ENTIRELY the people who decided to do some cheap, easy sensationalist garbage.

>>92044305

I remember when it was "Bucky and Uncle Ben are the only people who stay dead." Waiting for Uncle Ben to come back.

>>92044387
you are allowed to be mad at more than one thing at once

>>92034491
And Iceman gaywashed

>>92034602
>not muh mutants
More like mutants who don't count, I have yet to see anyone, ANYONE say "nice, more O5, I'm so glad Uncle Fester came up with this stupid idea!"

>>92044472
it was Jason Todd, Bucky Barnes, and Uncle Ben

and here we are

>>92044428
>This isn't just "a character that was created by Jews" this would be like if Batman was suddenly totting semi automatics and mowing down his rogue gallery.
How can Injustice be so based?

>>92044387
Changing those things takes years of hard work and effort, anon. Who has time for shit like that?

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>>92033117
>>92033278
>>92033391
>>92034331
>>92034970
>>92035617
>>92035907
>>92039847
>>92040748

It's time.

>>92044472
>>92044558
Jean Grey never sticks, she always re-dies at the end of the arc where she comes back.

lolurghey Jean doesn't count.

>>92044747
O5 Jean has stuck pretty hard so far

>>92040663
sana amanat

>>92040731
we actually expected him to be missing or dead or whatever for a while

>>92039847
the story is also shit, don't kid yourself

>>92044305
Not him, but he stayed dead for two fucking years, Thor even talked to his ghost.

Hell I even pirated the first issues of the following arc thinking he'd come back soon in some cool way, but guess what, nope.

Also they might have only figured out how to bring him back copying Batman's return.
(Not sure, could be the other way around, hard to tell these days.)

>>92033117
>Disney has ABC News make an editorial on how fans should calm down about HydraCap.

Wow. That is some top tier jewcraft.

>>92044977
Reborn finished before Return of Bruce Wayne even started though

>>92045044
I stand corrected on this, then.

>>92044747
That's only after morrison killed her. Before that she was back for what, 20 years?

>>92044428
>There's a lot of needless dramatics happening here, and the source is ENTIRELY the people who decided to do some cheap, easy sensationalist garbage.

That I entirely agree with, this is all Marvel's fault. My issue is that people are concluding that a stupid clickbait plot means Marvel is racist and full of anti-Semites, and that it's evidence of persecution. Which is the conclusion they've come to. And while I know blustering on Twitter doesn't necessarily mean anything, I can't even count how many threats and death threats I saw directed at Nick Spencer on Twitter and Tumblr, which is fucking ridiculous.

>>92033178
Let me just say this new trend of talking to a few cherry picked retailers as a way of drawing conclusions about the industry as a whole is some real shady bullshit.

>>92047739
it's hardly cherry-picking when it's literally the only data we have about sell-through

>>92033117

I don't get it

Hydra cap was MONTHS ago

Why are people going apeshit NOW?

>>92047739
Why, because you're shilling for Marvel? It sounds like this is the same kind of excuse you've been making, "oh it's only a limited number of retailers upset at Marvel!" "oh, they're all DC biased!" despite the fact that the CBR article didn't talk to any of the ones from the Bleeding Cool list and the Bleeding Cool list didn't talk to that CBR guy.

You convieniently omit that the retailers BC talked to were all talking about how bad DC's sales were during 2015.

>>92033117
A shame. Nazi Cap is only version of the character I like.

>>92043328
>He "died" at the end of World War 2

Except that didn't happen, his comic still continued after WW2 for a few more years. Then they revived the title in the 50's briefly.

>>92047961
did you even bother reading the rest of the post

>>92047831
because Secret Empire is starting up

>>92033117
Marvel will come to us begging us to calm down about their controversial story and we will look them in the eye whisper back 'No'

>>92034495
This!

>>92033178
You should've stuck to writing comedy books, Nick.

Can we officially call Marvel fans retards now?

>>92035325
Civil war 2. At least Secret Empire has been good so far.

I know it's had for most of you cynical basement dwellers to grasp this because you're so shit deep into hating yourselves and the world, but comicbooks are American's mythology. This has been stated and discussed numerous times across sociological and archaeological circles for decades.

In the pantheon of "heroes" the heart of our mythology, stands two characters who above all else, exemplify what we strive for not only as a nation, but as a species. Those two characters are Superman and Captain America. They do what most of us would consider "right" no matter what the personal cost. They live by ideals of freedom and equality and fight because of their hopefulness and optimism in regular everyday humans.

When you take one of those characters and stain them with something like this because you want to put "your mark" on them or express "your world view" through them, you take something away from who they are and what they stand for.

Yes a lot of people complaining about Hydra-Cap probably don't even read the books and maybe they don't have a direct right to pass judgement or complain. But their complaints come from a place of understanding that the character was never meant to be tarnished by cheap story telling tactics. The character, while maybe absent from their daily lives, was out there inspiring young readers to think about more than themselves and offering them an altruistic and optimistic role model.

That is why people are pissed. There are good stories to tell within the character's set dynamic as long as you yourself and the writers can see passed their own selfish desires to, for whatever reason, make these superheros, our heroes, more like us instead of allowing them to be beacons of inspiration.

>>92052016
That is a mature, clear-headed, and reassuring post. Thank you for that.

>>92033471
oh no they put spidey back into the status quo!

>>92041026
Tell that to the guy that bought a copy of HydraCap's reveal only to burn it and post pics on Twitter

Hydra Cap is stupid as fuck, but it is still hilarious seeing normies freak out over something they wouldn't have read anyway.

>>92033156
t. eurocuck who is drowning in muslims.

>>92052209
Go rape your daughter again, Quesada.

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>>92033117
Can someone give me a quick overview of this shitstorm?

Why are people so pissed about it?

>>92052016
Did you know back then Tolkien received complaints from fans because they weren't happy that in the end Frodo succumbed to the ring's corruption?

"Hero turns bad" is nothing new as far as storytelling and mythos go. Hercules slaughtered his own sons because deceived. Now, I'm not defending the writing, i don't even read this shit, but there's no way you can spin the outrage as understandable. It's obvious it mostly happened because of the current political atmosphere in america, people weren't upset that Cap was a bad guy, they were upset he was a "NAZI" like the ones they're supposedly trying to fight IRL, they cried about how it's a disservice to holocaust victims or even fangirls that wanted him to be gay for fucking Bucky

The controversy comes completely from a place of ignorance, because they don't care about the "cheap storytelling tactics" of the industry. I don't want to sound like a /pol/-tard, but if it was the socially ok kind of cheap change like, again, Cap turning gay, they would've praised it as great storytelling

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>>92052521
>comparing capeshit to classics of literature

>>92052542
Not my point. Dumb people will have dumb complaints, even about daid classics. I know capeshit is, well, capeshit, that's why i have an hard time being bothered about these things, they're unfortunately industry standards. They've always been

>>92052606
>Not my point.
Nice backpedaling, bro.

>>92033421
It doesn't matter that it's temporary, what matters is that they thought this was okay to do at all. I don't really know what Spencer's actual political affiliation is beyond "asshole" but he's still writing in Captain America claiming that the real him is a fascist on the 100th anniversary of Jack Kirby's birth. Do you really not get just how -tacky- this whole thing is?

Honestly this is like the 5th time they've done the Capt's a Nazi story, 6 if you count body swaps, fuck even Jack did it.

>>92053158
As >>92053231 said. As i said in the other post, whether it's poorly written or not, this was always a thing. I don't want to sound pretentious, but being mad about this is stupid. Criticize the writing, not the concept

>>92033786
Who are you to decide who is and who isn't a fan? What are you, a fandom police? I was following comics since I was 7 I learned to read on old issues of Maximum Carnage. I don't even watch MCU because I don't like movies. I support with my wallet.
I'm still hating this entire pile of crap.

>>92033421
Personally, I was hoping for Jim Hammond to set him on fire....

>>92035325
Avengers Arena.

>>92033117
>Marveldrones trying to blame tumblr instead of admitting Marvel done fucked up.
A reminder you could be reading Superman, Deathstroke or the Button now. Or event is going to launch a whole new line of new characters. We even made zombie Vertigo and to our surprise, it doesn't suck.
Warren told me to tell you hi.

>>92053431
What if I'm not reading fucking anything because the big 2 hardly put out anything that's not trash or mediocre

>>92044269
Very true. I know similar fans.

>>92044428
Too hyperbolic. I think you're ignoring the fact that Cap becoming a Nazi is a bad thing - possibly the worst thing, and that's the point of the bloody story.

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I don't care anymore. I just want this event to end and we may be finally able to go on and have stories not interrupted by events for at least a while

>>92053467
What are you doing in a Marvel thread?

>>92053231
>>92053291
Yeah but that was done in an issue or so, maybe a small arc at the most. I'm pretty sure it's been a year now, and the main event is just getting started. If it was a self contained arc, that's one thing but having it be the big summer event? That's foolishness.

>>92033117
>It even states that Cap will be back to normal again at the end of the storyline

This needed to explicitly stated? Marvel really needs to stop trying to cater to casuals that won't even read their shit.

>>92053577
I was curious about the topic and the discussion going on

>>92053629
apologiez for jumping on you then.

Civil War 2 has worse character assassination moments for Carol, Hawkeye and Tony. Why didn't anyone give a shit about those?

>>92053730
No need, dude

>>92053158
>tacky
More like evil.

>>92052326
t. butt mad amerifat cuck angry that pedro and tyrone showed his girl what an actual cock looks like

>>92053762
because we didn't have a good chunk of /co/ going around proclaiming Civil War 2 to be a good comic

>>92053329
haha was a teenager when Maximum Carnage came out. Kill me

>>92052521
Anything the inherently changes the character, does a disservice to that character unless it's to show growth of personality.

Mid-level Libtard here and I would have a big problem with them SJWing Cap's status as much as I hate this hydra-cap stuff. Sure he would not hesitate to defend the rights of the LGBTBBQ community but he doesn't have to be one to do that.

The examples you state also are flawed in light of what we currently know about Hydracap.

1. Frodo was tempted by the ring, it was corrupting him through the whole story. Besides that, Frodo didn't have 20 books prior to the trilogy of books where he was a super incorruptible, fun loving hobbit. He shows up in Fellowship and is being corrupted by the end of Fellowship

2. Hercules, as you said was tricked. That is part of his story and has been for much longer than any of us to be alive. Maybe if we lived in Ancient Greece when the priests of Hera or whatever were spinning these tales, we might have gotten our ancient Grecian jimmies rustled, but we weren't. Even if we were, it's still not the same as it was a trick and it set Hercules on a path of redemption.