ATLA

>>92008201
I really wished we could have seen the relationships play out. It's one of the few cartoons with actual well written characters.

Of course it'd never do that. They were well written in that they knew they couldn't do anything or start a relationship until after the war was over. And once the war was over the story was over.

It's like any show with actually good characters is too good to delve into relationship bullshit and distract from the main story. I mean the most we got was Zuko's date and a few scenes here and there with Aang and Katara. But they never gave into their feelings started their personal journeys with each other until after the end.

I miss this show.

>>92008201
Yeah, one of them is in that pic you posted.

>>92008307
And then we got a love triangle and amnesia bullshit

I just pretend Korra doesn't exist

>>92008201
It's canon to me that Toph is really cuddly when she sleeps because the heart beats of her friends/future husband/children lull her to sleep.

In that pic she should be able to literally see Sokka's heartbeat, and probably Zuko's considering the placement of her right foot

>>92008201
Um... where is Katara's right arm?

>>92008374
That is beautiful headcanon. I support it!

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>>92008201
yeah, Ty-Lee was just sorta there, they didn't do much with her and they focuses more on Mai instead

they eventually covered her in the comics, where she and Toph had their own little adventure, but that was it really

I really like Ty-Lee okay?

>>92008503
thanks, one of the things I hated about the sequel was that they ruined Toph's character. At least in my personal opinion. After the way she was raised I expected someone like her to actually be very affectionate to her husband and children.

Instead she just acted how she acted to everyone else. It just lacked depth to her character for me.

>>92008201
Yeah it's shitty fanbase.

>>92008201
>> any considerable flaw

Katara

>>92008201
>ex machina ending
This meme needs to die

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>>92008201
I think the first 2 seasons are fine but the third season feels a bit off. The episodes dedicated to the gaang's time in the fire nation just feel like filler - the headband, painted lady and sokka's master always stick out in my head for not adding much to the story.

The Invasion plan should have happened a third of the way through the season, with the rest of the season focusing on zuko's inclusion to the group(No ZukoxToph field trip? come on) and then the endgame(like aang trying to restore the avatar state and lionturtle foreshadowing). Iroh was barely in book 3 but that could have been because of mako's death.

tl;dr - the problem is book 3 - the first half feels too slow, and the second half feels too fast - which could have been remedied by splitting the book into 3 arcs

Pacing went back in a few places

>>92010690
it literally was

>>92009592
Jesus Christ those faces are awful.

>>92008201
the main problem is Season 3. not that it was terrible or anything, but after a tight and mostly plot-focused Season 2, it's extremely jarring to see the Gaang mostly just dicking around the Fire Nation.

Season 3 could be cut down to like ten episodes without really losing that much, which is a pretty big problem and a huge waste of potential.

romance is also handled fairly poorly in general. Katara and Aang's relationship (their romantic one, the platonic/friendship one is handled well) is just all over the place, with Katara going from completely oblivious to confused/nonreciprocal to jumping Aang's bones out of nowhere at the end, and Zuko/Mai is just boring and almost a parody of itself at times.

people rag on Korra's handling of romantic relationships, but I'm sure a lot of people that saw ATLA could see it coming from a mile away.

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>>92008201
Sokka never got to tap that sweet circus freak booty.

>>92011949
>>92013800
These.

>>92010690
It's true tho.

>>92008415
It's wrapped around Aang's left arm, what do you mean

>>92011949
>>92013800
Yeah, it really just comes down to Book 3.

Book 1 had problems, but it was still figuring itself out at that point and many of the not-so-great episodes still establish a lot plot and character wise.

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Who was best girl when you were watching the show as it premiered? I was really into Mai

>>92008201
Naw, and the bullshit Lion-Turtle-and-energybending-from-out-of-left-field was wonderful! WONDERFUL, I SAY!! Much better than properly setting up a MAJOR element of the finale and addition to the lore.

Yup.

>>92008201
>considerable flaws

Azula is EEEEVIL because reasons.

>>92008660
What? Toph was a cunt as a child, and she was a cunt as an adult.

>>92018016
she was spoiled into thinking she was special and deserved everything she wanted

>>92009620
No.

>>92014616
>>92013395

These Anons know what's what.

>>92008660
What they did to Toph was unforgivable.

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>>92017678
for me, was Ty-lee, I really liked her, the flexibility was hot and the fact she had like 6 identical sisters just made it all better

>>92014474
He may have in the 60+ years following.

>>92017678
Azula's delightfully evil. Followed by Mai.

>>92017678
Same as you, anon (also, Zuko is a retard, it took him years to treat her as she deserved)

Did anyone even want Soka to end up with Suki? I mean obviously no one really hated her. But I remember picking up a nickmag of Toph holding Soka as he rode on one of those half penguins and shipped them since.
>>92014474
Honestly I forgot that she flirted with Soka, did we ever find out what she did after all this?

>>92009592
They all look like snake people.

>>92020323
katara and toph got kinda tall

>>92008201
Around season 3, Katara's character practically imploded. She went from responsible, yet idealistic to simultaneously bleeding-heart and vindictive. Maybe that was supposed to say something about the impact of Zuko's betrayal on her, but they don't make that clear and the time frame was so wide that it feels weird that she never cooled off.

Aside from that, Aang and Toph both get kind of weak in season 3. Aang just got kind of bland, even when he was trying to be goofy. Toph just didn't get proper attention. She had to share the spotlight with Katara in the Runaway and then she never got a Zuko episode. They even joked about how she got the short end of the stick on that one.

Honestly, Sokka's the only character who didn't suffer from season 3. But I guess you could argue that his character had already imploded in the transition from season 1 to 2. His goofiness became the main focus of his character, shoving aside his pragmatism. Not that he was bad in season 2 and onwards, just very different for no discernable reason.

>>92008201
I think the main problem with the deus ex machina is that it completely undercuts the entire underlying theme of the finale and the episodes preceding it - that is to say Aang's moral conflict over doing what he believes versus doing what is right.

All of the characters in the show go through moments that force them to question their beliefs and preconceptions and in doing so become more balanced and complete characters (Zuko being the most obvious example). But Aang never does. Aang is always portrayed as being in the right, his philosophy is always portrayed as being the right way to do things, etc.

The reason the finale kind of sputters a bit is because it spends several episodes building up on Aang's moral conflict and then dodges the conflict completely.

I'm not saying Aang had to rip out the Fire Lord's still-beating heart or anything, but there had to have been some kind of door number three option the writers could have come up with.

>>92021075
The underlying theme of the show is finding your own destiny, which is basically what Aang does. He defeats the Firelord his way. It was done very sloppily, but thematically it made sense. It just wasn't satisfying writing.

>>92021147
But that's exactly the problem - he didn't defeat the Fire Lord *his* way. He defeated him using the way that was dropped into his lap. Aang didn't come up with the solution on his own and so it doesn't feel earned.

>>92021269
I don't disagree with you. It could've worked better if they had incorporated it in earlier rather than as a last minute thing. Maybe Aang would have to go through some ordeal, or sacrifice something to be able to energybend, kind of like the season 2 finale. I don't know, it's a tricky one.

>>92014616
>>92013395
You literally don't know what a deus ex machina is, then. It can only be considered a deus ex machina if there was nothing that happened previously to establish the means by which the conflict was resolved. Aang was imbibed with the knowledge of spiritbending by the lion turtle. Everything was established for it to resolve the way it did. An example of a deus ex machina would be if a bird carrying a rock happened to fly over Ozai and drop the rock on his head and kill him.

Stop trying hard to sound intellectual to people who won't give you recognition for it, this isn't reddit

>>92021753
So a giant creature never mentioned before shows up basically out of nowhere & gives him a power never mentioned before that just so happens to be literally the most powerful power in the entire Avatar world at the time...doesn't sound like a deus ex machina?

The entire point is that his moral conflict is challenged...and the answer to such conflict is a giant shows up & solves all his problems for him.

>>92008307
The sequel series should've just been a timeskip.

The accumulated flashback runtime is better than all of Korra.

>>92021982
Well they do have Fire Nation Troubles, the Search for Mrs. Zuko & the Industrial Revolutions comics...but yeah...

>>92018016
>>92018063
>>92018375

Wrong, she isn't evil at all. She is a lonely individual who has never known love but desperately craves it.

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>>92008201
>Apart from the deus ex machina ending, does this show have any considerable flaws?
The Fanbase, and the creator's willingness to acknowledge their existence and desires.

>>92022016
She has an ego that makes her think she can do no wrong (or barely any), manipulates people to do what she feels like & is only happy when she's winning & ESPECIALLY at the cost of other people's happiness. She's EVIL, but they give generally decent reasons behind it. She's also inherently unstable, even when she DID get everything she wanted, she still went nuts, cut her hair off, fired the only two people who's literal job it is to take care of her & then fucked up & ruined the Fire Nation home front battles by slipping up.

>>92022059

You are putting way too much thought into her mentality. the only reason why she manipulates people, she did it to receive adoration from her father who is the only one who ever gives her attention. There is nothing wrong with feeling happy winning at the cost of others as well as feeling betrayed when the two friends she had backstabbed her. Azula is a lost soul searching for her lot in life not this evil monster you make her out to be.

>>92021753
That's bullshit. Not only it was never established that energybending could take away one's bending, but said skill came from a source that has never appeared before in the story. On top of that, we only find out about the de-bending effect after it's already done.

So how about you stop trying hard to sound intellectual?

>>92008201
>deus ex machina
explain

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>>92021951
1- energybending is mentioned before 3 times in the show

2- energybending did not save Aang or helped him in any way. Ozai was already defeated before it.

>>92022686
If you know a power exists but don't know what it does, it's not deus ex. It is expected that we will be revealed what it does.

>>92008597

I couldn't stand Ty-lee or Mai.

They spend the whole series being just as evil as Azula but then at the last minute are like yeah now we're good.

>>92022773
>but I don't wanna kill him
>you gotta, it's the only way to beat him
>I'll never
>you gotta
>I'll never
>God-turtle descends onto the stage from an elaborate pulley system
>here, I'll teach you how to beat him without killing him
It's literal deus ex machina straight from a Greek moral play.

>>92022831
Ty-lee feared Azula.
Mai didn't care either way.

Them turning "good" wasn't a huge 180 for them.

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>>92022838
1- The past lives said he had to be decisive, not that he should kill Ozai. The only one that said he should kill Ozai was Sokka, and only because they Aang didn't have the avatar state to help on that fight.

2- Aang defeated Ozai BEFORE taking away his bending. Rewatch that part; he earthbends Ozai. There is no way he gets out of that. After that point he could literally just throw Ozai in prison and never would change. Energybending is just there to be shown, not to save anyone.

3- We knew already that they should finish explaining what energybending was. Explaining a power is not the same as creating it on the fly just to save the main character. You want deus ex machina, you will have to go to LoK.

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>>92022873
>Ty-lee feared Azula.
They were good friends. Stop with your bullying.

>>92022873
>Ty-lee feared Azula.

yeah that's why she was all to happy to play along with her and commit various acts of aggression.

They where having fun with her, enjoyed what they where doing and this whole fear shit was a complete last minute asspull.

>>92023087
>this whole fear shit was a complete last minute asspull.
Did you not watch Return to Omashu?

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>>92022602
wew

sokka's moon sword was never mentioned in korra
or something

>>92023107

Did you not watch The Entire rest of the Show?

>>92023211
It's okay to admit you were wrong.

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>>92008201
They were the wrong gender.

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>>92008329
holy shit fuck off

>>92019728
She became a Kyoshi Warrior. Comics haven't done much with her. There was a short story with Toph where we met her sisters. Mai consulted her on boys. And that's about it.

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>>92008597
Yeah, I was kind of hoping that Mai and Ty-Lee would get their own prison break of sorts. The bit where they betrayed Azula was great, but it's a shame they're sidelined for the rest of the show.

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>>92013800
I could second that for the most part.

Season 3 had a lot of great moments, but the stand-alone stories never quite beat the amazing arc Zuko and Iroh had together in season 2.

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>>92014474
>Ty Lee and Sokka
You know, I thought Sukki's character was fine, she got the job done. But now I'm now wondering whether this dynamic would have been more fun.

>>92023180
more

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Bit of a nitpick, but I wish that Long Feng was more of a threat in the end after it was revealed that his agents were still loyal to him.

I loved the Dai Li as villains but they don't really do much once Azula takes over.

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>>92023552
Of course.

>>92023566
MORE

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>>92023584

>>92008597
>Ty Lee and Toph in a comic together

That kind of sounds like fun, is the comic any good?

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Trying to find out Air+Fire Nation courting rituals for a future commission

>>92023592
>>92023566
>>92023180
>>92023598
I hate these type of ships because of the implications and changes it makes to the original story
I really hate it when I get behind these ship

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>>92008201
Would it make me an edgelord to say that I had wished that Sokka was allowed to use his blade for more than splintering enemy spears?

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>>92023357

>>92023639
Not at all. It's really annoying when a character has a sword and it doesn't actually cut anyone's head off, even though you know it can't be helped because it's a kids' cartoon.

It's just as annoying that Mai's knives never do anything more than pin someone to the wall.

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>you will never be bullied by Ty Lee's mean sister

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>>92023553
I was holding out for another Koh appearance.

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>>92023667
Who scraped the icing off her cupcake?

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>>92023664
I didn't need full-on decapitation or anything, but I think they could have gotten away with a bit more than they did.

1) Toph was a fun character but very stagnant. She never grows as a person.
2) They added Suki to the Gaang in Season 3 but forget to flesh her out as a character to even passable levels.
3) Also the Season 3 "field trips" were so bad, like they can't handle their cast properly anymore.

There are some other flaws as in "could have done even more" but other than that its a solid show.

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>>92023617
>>92023667
Plainly the best girl

>>92021951
The lion turtle makes a small appearance in season 2. You don't let the main character of the show spend several seconds in a 20 minute cartoon point out a particular creature by name in a library of wonders and secrets, and not have it be relevant at some point.

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Why didn't Aang just keep Ozai imprisoned with earth bending until someone slapped some handcuffs on him? They beat Azula in a similar way.

You can still keep the whole "I don't want to kill him" shenanigans because taking the Fire Lord down alive is a harder. Aang even got the chance to fry his ass with redirected lightning but chose not to.

I don't see why energybending was a somehow a solution to his problem. It wasn't needed.

>>92022019
Fuck fans.

>>92023804
I feel like not seeing her parent's response to her letter or at least her trying to reconnect with them at the end was a missed opportunity.

>>92023739
>SQUEEEEEEE!

>>92011949
>>92015430
>>92013800
>>92023519
Agreed. Much of the filler in the beginning of Book 3 could have been devoted to giving Zuko more time with the group. I understand they wanted some padding before the invasion but there was too much of it.

Book 1 had filler too but like you said:
>it was still figuring itself out at that point and many of the not-so-great episodes still establish a lot plot and character wise.

>>92018016
TLA already devoted a ton of effort into making the antagonists 3-dimensional. They explained Azula's character enough.

Aang was pretty annoying.

But no, other than the ending the show was excellent. Jesus that ending though. There's just no excuse.

>>92024201
Bryke haven't done a good ending to a season of a show since Crossroads of Destiny. Think about that.

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>>92008201
Suki should have been removed and replaced with Toph.

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Jin is still the best girl.

>>92022929
ty lee literally only came with azula because her life was being threatened.

did you forget that?

>>92024281
She's a filthy prostitute and you know it.

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>>92024351

>>92024369
Jin will be your friend for a very, very, low price.

Because she is a low class prostitue.

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It's never really explained why some people bend and some can't.

Which would be fine, except the Avatar can take bending powers away. How? What does he do? What does he remove? Does that mean he can make people benders? Can he change bending around? Like can he turn a fire bender into an earth bender to fuck with him? One major action at the end of your show shouldn't raise this much confusion.

>>92024398
>It's never really explained why some people bend and some can't.

You know how some people can see those Magic Eye pictures, and some can't? It's like that.

>>92024398
It's part spirituality/personality, part genetics. It was explained in an interview a long time ago.

I think it makes sense. Essentially, nonbenders either don't have the bending gene that matches them or haven't tapped into their element.

As for energybending, it's more of a chi thing. It's not /so/ much of a removal as it is a blockage. And theoretically, I suppose making someone a bender would be possible. I doubt the Avatar could switch it unless it was a situation in which the person had a significant connection with another element as well.

>>92024221
The ending to Korra book 3 was great.

>>92014474
>he doesn't know about Kyoshi Island orgies

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>>92008201
Filled with disproportionately powered teens
Bending rules weren't that consistent
A good chunk of Sozin's Comet doesn't make sense even without including Lion Turtle/chiropractor rock

>>92022828
That's an even bigger bullshit. Aang received this power far into the antepenultimate episode of the whole goddamn series and only used in the last few minutes to solve a problem that didn't have a solution. That is by its very definition a deus ex machina, you moron.

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>>92008201
- Characterization as a whole is nothing special; Aang in particularly is not an interesting protagonist, all the villains are fairly one-dimensional (As much as people hate The Search it does a lot more in developing Ozai and Azula than the TV series) and I can't really say anything notable about Iroh other than he's likable. Zuko is of course the highlight of the entire series and his character arc is the best thing about it.

- Season 1 is fairly weak as whole with far too many "lesson of the week" episodes and others that are largely pointless as whole though it does have a very strong finish getting to that point is a slog

Other than that I can't really think of any notable flaws that wouldn't come off as nitpicking. The story is simple but executed well enough to not notice any flaws, I wouldn't call any character badly written in this and the music and animation are of course tops. Its just an overall solid show from beginning to end but yeah it could have been a lot more.

In regards to the ending I think people hate it less so for the Lion Turtle business and more so for the fact that it gave Aang an easy way out from killing Ozai which had been plaguing him all throughout the last season as something he would have to do, its not as if death isn't something the series hasn't dealt with and it has tackled some surprisingly mature and realistic subject matter especially for a kids show (Zuko Alone) that didn't feel preachy so to see them find a solution that you would find in an average Disney movie feels like a copout and to play the devil's advocate I don't think Aang went through much as a protagonist in comparison to Korra, on top of things coming more naturally to him and being supported by much better allies it felt that the writers didn't want him to fail as much or make tough decisions but he feels fairly coddled in and I guess that's why I gravitated towards Zuko who is anything but.

>>92008201
The ending felt like it left things unresolved, compared to a show at the same time like FMA:B. It's one reason the fans created so much fan fiction.

Now, there are rumors that Bryce were planning ova episodes to wrap things up...but I think that the work doesn't stand on its own is a flaw.

>>92008374
Her sight only works on Earth, not on bodies. I mean, she sees through earth bending, not through just vibrations.

>>92022915
1- You're talking about things which all happened within the last 4 episodes and which don't dispute the abruptness of the external solution in any way shape or form.

2. If spirit bending Ozai was not a pivotal part of Aangs success and Ozai's permanent downfall then the Lionturtle would not have entered into the story and they would not have animated an entire minute of animation dedicated to the scene. You're bending your back to try and invent an explanation of why 30% of the finale was spent doing things that you claim were unnecessary (as if that's even a better option than it being deus ex) and, though I can certainly think of many arguments that could be made, I'm not going to bend my back inventing an explanation of why it WAS necessary when everything in the story from Aang's frantic dilemma to the visuals of the fight stress that it was important.

3. We did not and even if we had, there was not the slightest hint of it being a plot critical element.

A floating demigod spirited the main character away on the eve of battle to reveal to him a new option to an ongoing conflict through divine . Whether or not you think it's a bad thing, that is the literal definition of deus ex machina.

>>92023592
stop

>>92008329
>Pretend
It's essentially not canon since it wasn't done by Aaron Ehasz. No need to pretend.

>>92027449
Ehasz doesn't own the series.

>>92023888
Trips ofntruth being ignore

He imprisons the fire lord anyway. The chi bending to remove his powers was completely unnecessary

>>92027449
It's essentially not canon because of all the bullshit that is in season 2.

>>92027492
>Ownership is all that matters in anything

GUESS THE UNITED STATES CAN'T EXIST THEN LOLOLOL

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>>92027553
/debate
10/10

>>92008201
Book 3 was much weaker then Book 2.

Still excellent television, but nothing tops the ba sing se arc.

>>92008201
I find pretty much all the characters unlikable.

>>92026428
>In regards to the ending I think people hate it less so for the Lion Turtle business and more so for the fact that it gave Aang an easy way out from killing Ozai which had been plaguing him all throughout the last season as something he would have to do, its not as if death isn't something the series hasn't dealt with and it has tackled some surprisingly mature and realistic subject matter especially for a kids show (Zuko Alone) that didn't feel preachy so to see them find a solution that you would find in an average Disney movie feels like a copout and to play the devil's advocate I don't think Aang went through much as a protagonist in comparison to Korra, on top of things coming more naturally to him and being supported by much better allies it felt that the writers didn't want him to fail as much or make tough decisions but he feels fairly coddled in and I guess that's why I gravitated towards Zuko who is anything but.
Jesus dude with the run-on sentence.

>>92027553
>implying those filthy redskins even owned the land at all
>implying that, even if they did, ownership doesn't transfer through conquest
>inb4 conquest is theft (it's not; theft is only defined withing the context of a superior authority or state)

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>>92027909

>>92027957
>the savage says, while sitting on the seat held by the other savage he killed for it, who in turn yet killed another savage who previously held it, and so on

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>>92026783
>You're talking about things which all happened within the last 4 episodes and which don't dispute the abruptness of the external solution in any way shape or form
No: YOU'RE the one talking about it. I'm just replying to what you said.

> If spirit bending Ozai was not a pivotal part of Aangs success and Ozai's permanent downfall then the Lionturtle would not have entered into the story
they needed to close the energybending arc. Also, it looks cool story-wise even if it doesn't serve an actual purpose. You're over thinking it; not everything in the show needs to be necessary or serve a purpose. In this case it's very clear it didn't as Aang literally could defeat Ozai without it, as he actually did.

>there was not the slightest hint of it being a plot critical element
and it wasn't.

>A floating demigod spirited the main character away on the eve of battle to reveal to him a new option to an ongoing conflict
It's not new if it was already there. It just needed to be explained, as it was, and it didn't change the outcome AT ALL. This is just ridiculous; to be a deus ex machina it needs to actually save the character. Think: if Aang didn't have energybending, what changes?

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>>92026579
I think they pitched the idea of Zuko looking for his mother as a sequel movie but Nick didn't pick up on it.

>>92008201
Book Three spun its wheels way too much.

>>92023804
>3) Also the Season 3 "field trips" were so bad, like they can't handle their cast properly anymore.

The individual episodes were good but the device of pairing Zuko with the cast one-on-one was terrible when considering them all together. They really should have had Day of Black Sun happen earlier in book 3 and then let Zuko be in the Gaang longer.

Does anyone know if Season 2 had a lot less input from Bryke or something? It had some idiosyncrasies (lack of two-part episodes, those freeze-frame scene breaks in the middle of battles [like the one in the Azula vs Suki fight], tighter direction and flow in general) that have always bothered me because they didn't continue them in Season 3. It's almost like it was directed entirely by a different person (Ehasz?) with Bryke sitting on the sidelines.

>>92030576
>le Ehasz did everything good meme

>>92027830
Did you really just quoted someone for grammar? On an image board? In 2017?

>>92029213
>It's not new if it was already there. It just needed to be explained, as it was, and it didn't change the outcome AT ALL. This is just ridiculous; to be a deus ex machina it needs to actually save the character. Think: if Aang didn't have energybending, what changes?

He'd either have to kill or be killed by Ozai. Because apparently beating him up and locking him up wasn't a possibility.

>>92011949
>sokka's master
This episode felt like it was trying to address how Sokka was a joke character and wasn't as useful in combat because he wasn't a bender; they were trying to plug that hole since things were getting serious. It would have been much more effective if they had been exploring Sokka's role in the group as an arc beforehand, but instead it feels tacked on.

>>92031883
>Why don't you do a sidequest, Sokka?
>Yeah, we're in the nonlinear part of the game before we go to the palace and start the final battles. Plenty of time to level up!

>>92031685
>Because apparently beating him up and locking him up wasn't a possibility
Are you implying there are no jails in the Fire nation?

There is Boiling Rock is they ever get to it. It wasn't just a possibility, it would be very easy. Aang could literally just trap him inside the earth all the way to his neck. Not only the Sozin's comet would end, he could not use it without melting his hands.

>>92032430
>>92032430
Did they ever discuss that though? Everyone was saying that killing him is the only way, even Aang if only for a little while. Why did no one thought about just hauling his ass to jail after weakening him enough?

>>92023394
>how dare you not like my favorite show!
No, you fuck off.

>>92022016
FUCK!
OFF!
SCRAPPER!
>inb4 I-I'm not Scrapper

>>92022109
>You are putting way too much thought into her mentality
Same can be said of you with your "Oh no, she's totally goodhearted, just misunderstood because I think her mommy is a niggering cunt and her daddy was a nasty mean man!"

>>92035162

I'm not Scrapper I just think Azula is misunderstood.

>>92035374

Except there is evidence to support my claim. Her own mother said she didn't love her enough and thinks of her pitifully while her dad uses her for his own gain. Azula is a worse victim than Zuko,

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>>92035583
>Except there is evidence to support my claim.
No, no there is not.

>Her own mother said she love her enough
She tried though, but Azula would not reciprocate the feelings given to her.

>Azula is a worse victim than Zuko
Keep telling yourself that, bub.

>>92036122
>No, no there is not.

Prove me wrong

>She tried though, but Azula would not reciprocate the feelings given to her.

She half assed tried. Once she saw that Azula wasn't like Zuko she gave up and focused on her new daughter which is fucked up on all accounts.

>Keep telling yourself that, bub.


I don't have to because I know Azula was never given a chance while Zuko has it all.


Also it's funny that you post Larxene when she had a similar fate.

>>92036356
Burden of proof is on you, lad

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>>92036356
No, you prove us wrong. You claimed there's evidence, therefore the burden is upon you to provide said evidence to go with your claims.

>she half assed tried
No, she tried as much as one could in her situation. And only focused on her new family AFTER she gave up her old life as part of a complicated arrangement to keep her son from being executed. God almighty you are one fucking dense shit for just jumping to call someone bad for actions that they took by cutting out the things in between.

>Azula was never given a chance
Except she was in many cases where she fought the Gaang, Aang even wondered if he could try to help her and quickly realized it wouldn't work.

And no, Larxene did not have a similar fate. She was a ruthless bitch who abused others for her own sick pleasure. Stop being a delusional child.

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>>92036394
>>92036443

I have told you multiple times. Ursa on Smoke and Shadow favors her new daughter over Azula.

> And only focused on her new family AFTER she gave up her old life as part of a complicated arrangement to keep her son from being executed. God almighty you are one fucking dense shit for just jumping to call someone bad for actions that they took by cutting out the things in between.

This is such a copout for you Ursafags. She CHOSE to forget her children because she did not have the courage to wait for them to return even though Ozai was never going to hurt her. She never made attempts to go after Azula even though she is shown to be overprotective of both Zuko and her new daughter. Ursa is a cold hearted bitch who only wants those who abide by her stupid fucking morals to be part of the family.

>Except she was in many cases where she fought the Gaang, Aang even wondered if he could try to help her and quickly realized it wouldn't work.

Except both Aang and Iroh both believe that Azula still can be reformed. Stop omitting scenes you hypocrite.

>And no, Larxene did not have a similar fate. She was a ruthless bitch who abused others for her own sick pleasure. Stop being a delusional child.

Larxene was on a quest to overthrow the organization while Sora kept interrupting her plans because of "muh feelings" even when she repeatedly told him she did not want to fight. What is with you lot and trying to find the bad in people?

>>92011949
I still think Book 3 ended up the way it did because Mako died.

Iroh was probably going to have a bigger role but they cut it after he died.

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>>92036599
Because that was the new life she got. It helped ensure her son stayed safe if someone had caught wind of the dirty dealing she and Ozai had done to give him the thrown.

>Copout for you Ursafags
Nice one, Azulafag. Funny how you get so defensive when backed into a corner.

>cold hearted bitch
Hardly, she tried with Azula and realized she couldn't force her daughter to change. That's all on Azula, not her mother.

>Stop omitting scenes you hypocrite
You first, junior.

>Larxene was on a quest to overthrow the organization
So Marluxia and his conspirators could use Kingdom Hearts for their own ends, you dense motherfucker. You are beyond fucking delusional with this whole "this bad girl? She's just misunderstood! Stop oppressing her!"

I'm laughing at you, hard and long at the hoop jumping you pull every day with this shit.

>>92036785
This. He probably would have talked to Zuko even sooner instead of the silent treatment as well.

>>92036849
>Because that was the new life she got. It helped ensure her son stayed safe if someone had caught wind of the dirty dealing she and Ozai had done to give him the thrown.


This is retarded, you jump through hoops for Ursa but fail to see none of that shit mattered at all. No one ever looked into Ozai killing his father and Ursa did it not for those reasons but because she couldn't bear the pain of thinking about Zuko.

>Hardly, she tried with Azula and realized she couldn't force her daughter to change. That's all on Azula, not her mother.


You don't force someone to change, you love them for who they are.

>So Marluxia and his conspirators could use Kingdom Hearts for their own ends,

Their "own ends" was to be normal people again, dipshit.

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>>92036911
And Ursa did love Azula, even her own hallucination told her so. But guess what, Azula is beyond help because she's not going to change no matter much you delude yourself into thinking she will.

>Their "own ends" was to be normal people again, dipshit
No, Marluxia wanted to become the top dogs, retard. And Larxene hardly said a thing about wanting her heart back, she enjoyed being who she was as she abused and manipulated others. You're so deep in delusion it's fucking hysterical.

>>92037043
im not him but even if Ursa loved Azula she was still a shit mom

your mom can love you and still be a terrible parent

there's literally no excuse for her choosing to forget her children

>>92037197
>I'm not him
Sure you ain't, Scrappy, sure you ain't.

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>>92037197
why do you feel the need to defend Ursa was your mother shit too

Daily reminder Azula is best girl.

>>92037830
Same can be asked of scrapper defending a broken sadsack like Azula.

>>92037043
>And Ursa did love Azula, even her own hallucination told her so. But guess what, Azula is beyond help because she's not going to change no matter much you delude yourself into thinking she will.

We'll see about that. She drew out the Ozai sympathizers and had them rounded up by Zuko. I think she is on the road to redemption.

>No, Marluxia wanted to become the top dogs, retard. And Larxene hardly said a thing about wanting her heart back, she enjoyed being who she was as she abused and manipulated others.

And yet she also expresses how having a heart hurt her. She's not some psychopath but a hurt woman.

>>92038160
>We'll see

You keep saying that and yet we've seen NOTHING after all these years. Give it up already.

>>92038050
i'm not denying that she is "broken sadsack" but a lot of the reason she is that way has to do with the fact that her mother was a shit parent

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>>92038160
>I think she is on the road to redemption
Yeah right Scrapper

Reminder to hide and not reply to all Scrapper posts

>>92038489
Her mother was hardly shitty. She tried her damnedest. If anyone is to blame, it's squarely on Ozai for encouraging her bad behavior. Ursa tried time and time again to reach out and got pushed away, and she certainly wasn't going to force her daughter with beatings or abuse, especially when the then ruling figure wanted his heirs to be maniacs.

>>92038650
>Reminder to hide and not reply to all Scrapper posts
But then who else do we turn to and laugh at their monkey antics?

>>92038671
>Her mother was hardly shitty
She was absolutely a shit mother. She was unable to make an emotional connection between her and her only daughter. If that not shit i don't know what is and, it is in no way fair to blame 8 or 9 year old Azula for that.

But the worst part for me is how she chose to forget her children what kind of mother would do that?

A shit one that's the answer.

>>92008201
A few of the episodes in book 3 were weak

>>92039024
>But the worst part for me is how she chose to forget her children what kind of mother would do that?
Your mother, Scrapper.

>>92008307
I really wish I could see faggots like you hang from a noose

Death to shippingfags

well, this was a good thread before today

>>92039024
Because Azula wouldn't reciprocate you goddamn dense retard. And she forgot because that was part of the deal with getting a new face. It's not like she could just openly live in a village with a known face like the queen of the fire nation (or whatever the Lord's partner was called)

>>92039476
>Because Azula wouldn't reciprocate

Azula was a child and Ursa was her mom she should have found a way to make her to reciprocate

> It's not like she could just openly live in a village with a known face like the queen of the fire nation

or just maybe she could have went to the earth kingdom like Zuko the prince of the fire nation or Iroh the first born of the previous firelord and started a new life

she had tons of options stop making excuses for her shit decisions

>>92032670
I just think they didn't discuss the possibility of Ozai living because Aang didn't know he had access to the avatar state.

I mean, With the avatar state there is no way that Aang would lose.

>>92039980
>she should have found a way to make her to reciprocate
Such as? She talked to her and probably did all kinds of activities with her offscreen, and they clearly didn't work. Only way to "make" something happen probably would have involved beating, and that wouldn't accomplish much.

Zuko and Iroh were hiding out. Not many knew of Zuko's scar because it happened in the privacy of the kingdom and his banishment wasn't made all that known, the few that did know probably had insider knowledge or had heard rumors being spread. Iroh not being recognized was probably him just looking like an old man to many other people as he didn't wear much that screamed "Fire nation".

And Ursa's decisions were hardly that shitty, mate. Stop crying like some autistic loser because she wasn't parent of the year.

>>92023527
I actually did not get the fan joke until I had watched it several times

>>92040042
Well he could if another coward sneaked attacked him like Azula had.

>>92038207
>You keep saying that and yet we've seen NOTHING after all these years. Give it up already.

It's hinted at like I said.
>>92038650

It is happening and while I'm not Scrapper I called it that it would be slow recovery.

>>92042259
No, it's not happening.
Yes, yes you are Scrapper.

>>92042395

Scrapper had a trip, I do not have a trip.

>>92042603
Removing your name doesn't change who you are, scrap.

>>92040080
this entire post is you making excuses for her being a terrible parent Azula was a problem child but that doesn't mean you give up on her

maybe you just don't understand that there is more than one way to be a terrible parent you don't have to be emotionally abusive like Ozai

Can't Azula be both a horrible monster of a person and still be a misunderstood victim? I feel like those aren't mutually exclusive

>>92009592
Is this fan made or official?

>>92043138

No. There is no such thing as a sympathetic monster.

>>92042863
Ursa is still a better parent than Ozai, and not as bad as you make out to be, retard.

>>92044190

Better doesn't make you a good parent, dumbass.

>>92009620
>literally tells sokka he didn't love their mom as much as she did because he didn't want to kill someone
>never apologizes for it
she was the worst of all time

>>92023527
wow i just got that

>>92019728
suki was fine but boring as hell. sokka deserved someone as fun as him

>>92044444
the truth unfolds

>>92044444
Quints of LIES

>>92044276
She was completely right, though excessively mean and probably should have apologized.

Are you joking though? He showed absolutely no emotional response to the prospect of confronting his mother's killer and admitted he barely remembered her face. Of course he didn't love her as much as Katara did.

>>92044271
She was a good parent, retard. Not her fault her daughter was beyond saving.

>>92044585

Yes it was you idiot, she never gave her the same treatment she gave Zuko. Hell Azula even points out she spent more time with Zuko than her.

>>92023888
I don't think the energy bending was a deus ex machina but I completely agree with this.

It always bothered me why they couldn't just imprison him in earth/ice/etc. It obviously works. Why did they need energy bending?

>>92026428
This.

>>92026166
Bending is largely based on martial arts. In the same way one person can pick up on something faster, or is just outright more talented than another person, certain people are stronger benders than others.
Ditto
Yeah Sozin's comet doesn't really make a lot of sense to me either. Neither does the lion turtle.

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>>92010690
>>92021075
>>92021753
>>92021951
>>92022838
>>92044728
>>92029213
>not talking about the real deus ex machina

>>92044627
No it wasn't retard. Azula dug her own grave and there wasn't nothing that could be done. Ursa tried to connect with her daughter and nothing clicked.

Stay wrong, scrapshit.

>>92045032
>No it wasn't retard. Azula dug her own grave and there wasn't nothing that could be done. Ursa tried to connect with her daughter and nothing clicked.

How can you pass judgment on a kid who is 6 years old? She cannot make life decisions at that age, that's why we have counselors in schools, jackass.

>>92044572
not the point. it's still a terrible, disgusting thing to say to someone. you could never say something like that in anger and get off scot free like she did. doesn't matter how right you are.

im not saying she was wrong im saying she's a horrible person, which she is.

>>92045080
She was well aware of what she was doing, she was a smart child, more so because she was a cartoon child. But please, keep deluding yourself into thinking nothing of what she did can be held against her, you sad pathetic waste of life. Hope you can manage knowing that we're all laughing at your sorry ass.

>>92023667
Last one is slightly T H I C C

>>92045713
>She was well aware of what she was doing, she was a smart child, more so because she was a cartoon child.

But a child nonetheless. And her being smart didn't help her being happy. You can laugh at me all you want but ignorant fools like yourself love to hate on people like me and Azula because you don't get us and throw us in a box. It fucking sucks and no one should live a life where people think you are an evil monster. This is not about you or this stupid argument, it's about reaching the people who are like Azula and who look up to her so they know there are people out there who care.

>>92045976
>ignorant fools

Ironic, coming from a delusional retard who thinks his waifu is 100% innocent of all crimes she has willingly committed in her life and levies all the blame on only ONE of her parents.

People like in Azula in real life deserve their punishments because they're just as aware of their terrible actions as anyone else and are remorseless about them. Stop deluding yourself into thinking there are no such things as bad people, retard.

>>92046148
>levies all the blame on only ONE of her parents.

I never said that. I blame Ozai but that is a given. Also she isn't my waifu, I just feel for her because I have been in that position before.

>People like in Azula in real life deserve their punishments because they're just as aware of their terrible actions as anyone else and are remorseless about them.

Wrong, we see in the beach episode and the comics that Azula hates that everyone looks at her like a monster to the point where it eats her up inside. She isn't the cold bitch you think she is, she is a person with feelings she doesn't know how to control.

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>>92045976
>It fucking sucks and no one should live a life where people think you are an evil monster

>act like an evil monster
>god why do these ignorant people treat us like an evil monster

Reminder to ignore Scrapper posts, hide them, do not reply.

Also Seras a shit.

>>92046302
Earlier you told people to not omit lines and scenes, and here you are omitting the fact that Azula shrugged off the comments of being called a monster because she was accepting who she was. Your delusion knows no bounds, and you don't have my pity.

>>92046349
Seras from Hellsing? What does she have to do with anything?

>>92036849
>So Marluxia and his conspirators could use Kingdom Hearts for their own ends

We never actually found out what their plan was for when they controlled the Organization.

>>92046481
She's a shit and crazy, much like Nui, Tanya, and Azula.

>>92046349
>>92046652

Fuck you man. Don't talk shit when you know nothing about those characters. Also Seras is perfectly pure and far better than whatever whore you jack off to.

>>92046458

She was lying as evident by her breakdown.

>>92044967
So the rock stimulated his earth (survival) chakra, but he had already unlocked that one, right?

The cosmic energy one was the blocked one.

So the rock should have hit the crown of his head, right?

Question:

if Aang had unlocked his Cosmic chakra, would he have turned into giant blue Aang?

>>92047040
Aang did unlock his last chakra, that was how he was able to go into the Avatar state and control it for all of three seconds before Azula zapped him.

>>92047086
right, but didn't it get locked back again?

In "The Ember Island Players" Aang says to Katara

>Overreacting? If I hadn't blocked my chakra, I'd probably be in the Avatar State right now!"

>>92047181
Maybe Aang blocked the survival chakra (spine) when Azula shot him there.

Still doesn't explain magic rock, but makes it better.

>>92039084
Book 3 was just shit. Let's not sugarcoat things here.
Still wouldn't have saved Books 4 and 5 from their unfortunate demise, though.

>>92047040
Of course not, that "state" only exists in fanfic- I mean LOK.

>>92047312
Agreed.


>LOK
>"Oh, anyone that accepts who they are as a person can turn into a huge spirit kaiju just by meditating"

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>>92047040
You mean giant purple Aang.

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>>92047590
that guy was a fucking fool he didnt need to let katara go

>>92046883
>She was lying as evident by her breakdown.
Nice headcannon, idiot.

>>92046637
Except we do, Marluxia wanted to be top dog.

>>92046652
Again, what does she have to do with anything in this thread?

Also, she's not at all like those characters in any way. She certainly wasn't evil or crazy, just someone who caught up in vampire and Nazi shenanigans.

>>92047901

Different anon, but you can't deny Ursa's behavior towards Azula is pretty abusive. Keep in mind Azula is a literal child. She was hurt by her mother's comments ("it still hurt"), and internalized them ("she's right").
Ursa didn't show Azula any kind of healthy love.

I have a mother who thinks I'm a bit of a monster and I believed her for a long time too, until I became an adult and made better relationships. Its just abusive.

>>92047988
>Ursa didn't show Azula any kind of healthy love.
She tried and her daughter fought her every step of the way while getting no support from her husband or her father-in-law, who were far more at fault for feeding Azula's wicked nature.

>>92047901

She literally says it in the comics.

>>92048048

>She tried and her daughter fought her every step of the way while getting no support from her husband or her father-in-law,

Where is your source on these attempts? We don't see these "tries" for any kind of love at all. Healthy love means you don't see your daughter as a "monster". Its not Ozai or Azulon who haunt Azula's delusions, its Ursa who does. The damage she did to her daughter was the most traumatic.

Ozai was very abusive too, but was mostly loving and supportive towards Azula. Ursa flat out was not. Azula took what she got.

>>92047265
>Still doesn't explain magic rock, but makes it better.
It does. Chakras are physical as well as mental/emotional, that's the whole point of Ty Lee introducing chi-blocking to the audience. Azula's lightning blocked Aang's chakra physically and the rock unblocked it physically.
Whether it's good writing or not is another argument but it makes sense wothin the context of the lore.

>>92048227
>but was mostly loving and supportive towards Azula
Not really, Ozai saw his children as means to an end. If they failed him, as Zuko had in his eyes, he casted them aside like trash.

Ursa tried to be supportive as shown in the flashback with her, she says how she can't understand her own daughter being like that, indicating she tried to form a connection but couldn't. You can keep acting like she was the worse parent but she wasn't. Calling her child a monster may have been harsh, but it was completely accurate given that Azula flat out resisted being anything but a cruel child. The only reason her mother haunts her is because she's realizing that in the end, her mother was the one who been there to offer healthy support but couldn't reach her daughter.

>>92048217
Prove it, scrappy. You sure love saying shit happens in the comics and then not supporting it.

>>92047988
Every scene we see of young Azula, she's acting like a spoiled little shit and Ursa is trying to correct her shitty behavior. That's pretty good parenting.
We're not going to see Ursa being all loves and cuddles until we see a flashback where Azula isn't being a cunt.

>>92048304

Look up any scene of her hallucinations in the comics, she repeatedly puts herself down in a fit of desperation.

>>92048337
Or how about you post them to prove it?

>>92047937
Those characters are all part of Scrapper's autistic headcanon.

It was bait meant to expose/trigger him.

>>92048358
What has he said about Seras? She's got none of the same characteristics as Azula, given that most of the story in Hellsing is just her trying to keep a level head amidst the Nazi and vampire shit.

>those glorious few months Scrapper was waifuing Anna from Frozen and we didn't have to listen to his autism
Come back /frz/
All is forgiven

>>92048383

Seras is a beautiful light among the darkest of nights. She is pure in heart and in spirit and even though she is demonic in power she is human by nature and that is something to behold.

>>92048427
>Scrapper was waifuing Anna from Frozen

It was always Elsa. Onion Elsa to be precise.

>>92048427

Also he didn't waifu anyone. He only has one waifu. He just respects Onion Elsa.

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>>92048431
She's also got honking huge tits and ate a frog.

>>92048294
>Not really, Ozai saw his children as means to an end. If they failed him, as Zuko had in his eyes, he casted them aside like trash.
Nah. He never had much affection for Zuko to begin with, wrapped up in his grudge against Ursa. Even after Azula "fails" he is still capable of chatting with her and continuing a relationship from prison.

>Calling her child a monster may have been harsh, but it was completely accurate given that Azula flat out resisted being anything but a cruel child.
No, it really was not accurate. Azula was what, 9-10 years old at the oldest? She's not a "monster". She's a brat at worst. The worst she does is shoot fireballs at people in a comedic fashion much like Toph shoots earth pillars and Katara shoots water squirts at each other.

Calling her a "monster" and letting her internalize that does way way worse damage to who she is. We don't see any healthy support to Azula.

>>92048322
>she's acting like a spoiled little shit
She's acting like a kid. Kids can be little shits, they aren't fully developed yet emotionally. A big part of a child's behavior has to do with wanting to look cool.

> Ursa is trying to correct her shitty behavior
Not terribly well. She takes an authoritarian stance, telling her off but not explaining why or discussing anything with Azula, which is not the best way to handle discipline with kids. Kids aren't dogs that you just yell "no" at and then they get it. She certainly offers no positive reinforcement or emotional support or praise for Azula's talents.

Azula believes Ursa sees her as a monster and nothing is done to show this is false. No love is shown by Ursa for Azula, or at least bare minimum.

>We're not going to see Ursa being all loves and cuddles until we see a flashback where Azula isn't being a cunt.

lol she's like 9 years old at the absolute oldest (when Ursa abandons her without ever giving her the reassuring goodbye she gave Zuko). Kids act up. Doesn't make them "cunts".

>>92048461

All pluses.

>>92048497
>She's not a "monster". She's a brat at worst
She attacked animals for fun, was amused by the sight of her brother being physically scarred (and even fine with the possibility of him being MURDERED at one point), and toyed with the emotions of those around her. She was a monstrous child no matter how much you bullshit things like "Oh, but she just didn't know any better!"

We saw plenty of healthy support with Ursa trying to correct that behavior and being rebuffed every single time.

>>92048287
Good points.

I rewatched recently, and the scene where Aang has an opportunity to kill Ozai by redirecting his lightning stuck out to me.

For some reason, I never noticed that he had Ozai dead-to-rights before.

>>92048497
You tell kids off, give them time to think over their behavior, THEN explain why they're acting wrong once they've calmed down. You don't praise technique in bad behavior.
>"Oh, you really shouldn't set fire to dicks, but great aim by the way, sweetie."

Besides, this is getting off point. Your argument was that we never see Ursa being lovey towards Azula, which makes sense seeing as she's misbehaving in a every flashback.

>>92048539

>She attacked animals for fun

What animals were these? I remember her attacking a plant in the garden since her mother was totally ignoring her, and being told off with zero understanding or listening on Ursa's part. Doesn't make her a monster at all.

>amused by the sight of her brother being physically scarred (and even fine with the possibility of him being MURDERED at one point),

Happens WAY after Ursa left, so you can't use this as a good example. Also Ursa was the one who brought Zuko close to her while emotionally estranging Azula, something which deeply hurt Azula (and Azula seldom admits when something hurts). Its natural that she would hold high resentment towards Zuko.

> toyed with the emotions of those around her.

All kids do this, and Ursa does this with Ozai even. They are testing out social boundaries. Kids will tease and tell adults what they want to hear, even in the absolute best of upbringings. Doesn't make her a monster.

>We saw plenty of healthy support with Ursa trying to correct that behavior and being rebuffed every single time.

Nope. Not even a single instance of healthy correction on Ursa's part. She gives passable corrections ("go to your room! respect the garden!"), none of which occur within the backdrop of a loving or a two-way relationship. Azula doesn't "rebuff" her either, she does as she's told (goes to her room, goes to bed, tells Ursa what she heard).

FACT: Azula did not deserve love

>>92048666

Fact: That is your opinion.

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>>92008201
Here's your goddamn flaw with this shitfest of a show.

Leaves from the vine, falling so slow, like fragile tiny shells, drifting in the foam...

>>92048641
She threw food at them, which prompted Zuko to think it was acceptable behavior towards them.

Ursa only estranged Azula because she couldn't get through to her. She tried and her daughter was just too fucking crazy to see the love that was being offered to her.

All of her actions did make her a monster, she wasn't a normal child you cretin, she was seriously fucked in the head, long before her mother's disappearance played a part.

We saw plenty, Ursa wanted BOTH kids to leave with her in exile, and got told no because otherwise Ozai would have them all killed.

It's amazing how much you ignore what is clearly shown, scrappy, all because of your shitty waifu and your inability to just admit that you love an evil character. No, god forbid that. No, she's got to be "misunderstood" and whatnot, that way your fee-fees won't be rattled by your adoration for someone who was one messed up kid.

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>>92024233
This shit here. 13-15 year old me fucking loved how adorable Toph was towards Sokka. Especially those scenes where it showed her really into him (fucking few that there were).

Instead Korra the damnable pit of spiraling shitshow has Toph go through multiple husbands, have a bad family life, and become some strict cop?

>>92048620
>You tell kids off, give them time to think over their behavior, THEN explain why they're acting wrong once they've calmed down. You don't praise technique in bad behavior.

And we don't ever see Ursa do any explaining or any praising.

Look at Search, vol 2 pg 10. Ursa spending time with her children--oh wait no, she's entirely listening to Zuko and completely ignoring Azula not even bothering to bring Azula into the conversation. Azula looks lonely and depressed. Azula is not misbehaving at this point and Ursa is treating her like garbage, with zero attention spent on her.

Azula burns a flower. Its a fucking plant, apparently "not as pretty" (likely a diseased or wilted flower I guess). Ursa, instead of asking Azula what's wrong, simply tells her to "treat the flowers with respect" (lol sure). Azula gets mad at her brother, burns his butt and is sent to her room to be completely isolated from Ursa/Zuko. No "further explanation" is ever given. No sit down, no bonding, no Ursa trying to be a better mom.

Azula says she threw a fireball at her instructor after he tried to correct her and didn't listen to her. This is deadly irl but in the ATLA verse kids use bending for comedic effect on one another all the time. Toph shoots earth pillars at her friends (and instructors) and its just her being sassy. Azula does this and she's some kind of irredeemable monster past her mothers love (puh lease).

We see Ozai giving Azula praise and love. We never see that coming from Ursa. Azula was never shown this from Ursa. She had no choice but to get that from Ozai and seek out his praise accordingly. Ursa warped Azula's mind thoroughly and that is why it's Ursa, and not Ozai or Azulon, haunting Azula into her adolescence.

>>92048740
Dude, Ursa is the one haunting Azula because Azula knows that her Mom was right. That's some pretty basic shit.

>>92048788
Also, why the fuck would Ozai be haunting her if she knows he's still alive?

>>92048740
>Azula was never shown this from Ursa.
She was, but she wouldn't reciprocate at all. She was amused by burning things, hurting people, and getting her way. Ursa could not for the life of her understand how she had spawn such a child. The likely answer is that it's Ozai's genes, given he wasn't all that much screwed together better himself. Ursa wanted to understand and love her daughter, but there was just no way and she eventually gave up. Sure, that's not what a mother should do, but when your child is borderline crazy (cartoon crazy to be exact), there's not much that can done compared to real life where such behavior wouldn't even have existed.

>>92048713
>She threw food at them, which prompted Zuko to think it was acceptable behavior towards them.

Oh? Is that her big "animal attack" that makes her into a total "monster" and justifies Ursa's treatment of her own daughter? She threw food too roughly at the ducks? I like how you give Zuko the benefit of the doubt here. Zuko is mistaken and learned wrongly. He gets gently corrected. But when Azula did it that way, she was just being a total 8 year old monster. Shut up.

>Ursa only estranged Azula because she couldn't get through to her. She tried
No. She did not try once. Not once does Ursa show Azula any love. Totally ignoring a girl UNTIL she acts up and THEN telling her "go to your room" is not "trying to get through". Its emotional abuse.

No 9 year old is a monster. Certainly not Azula.

>All of her actions did make her a monster, she wasn't a normal child you cretin, she was seriously fucked in the head

Nothing she does before the age of 9 years old is at all out of the ordinary for a child, especially not a child in the ATLA verse (where kids do use magical bending arts against each other).

>We saw plenty, Ursa wanted BOTH kids to leave with her in exile
Is that supposed to be her big show of love? Totally treating Azula like garbage, considering her a monster, but then...wanting to take her away from the only parent who does show her love? And how do we know she is doing this for Azula's sake, and not just as another way of cheaply hurting Ozai?

> all because of your shitty waifu and your inability to just admit that you love an evil character.
I don't even like Azula. I just hate child abuse and Ursa is incredibly abusive, possibly the most abusive parent in the series outside of Ozai's treatment of Zuko. (Care to defend that?)

>>92048740
>We see Ozai giving Azula praise and love
For being vindictive and cruel. That's not good parenting, it's way worse than anything Ursa did.

>>92048826
>Ursa is incredibly abusive
O i am laffin

>>92048826
You see this, right here?
>>92047988
>I have a mother who thinks I'm a bit of a monster

You think that might be your real problem?

>>92048826
No, you fucking shut up nigger. Ursa tried to correct her, this was mentioned several times in the show and comics, but Azula did not listen, at all. Get it through your fucking head you retarded sack of shit. Her mother tried to be caring and show discipline, and Azula pulled the "Screw you, I do what I want!" card every time until her mother just said "fine" and let her be.

And what Azula did at 9 is not normal for a child. They do not randomly burn shit and laugh maniacally at serious things like possible death and maiming. If they did, they'd be scolded and shown how they're wrong. Ursa tried to do so at one point, and realized Azula was just not right in the head at all for some reason.

>I don't even like Azula
Sure you don't.
>Ursa is incredibly abusive
No, she isn't. She gave up trying to be a mother for her daughter because guess what? Azula was a little monster. It might not have been the right thing to do, but when your child is CARTOON crazy, there's no much you fucking do.

Stop being so utterly fucking retarded.

>>92048867

Piss off, not everyone has great parents.

Why do people still argue with Scrapper?

>>92048907
Sure, but it definitely seems like you're projecting your bad relationship with your Mom onto ATLA

>>92047988
>I have a mother who thinks I'm a bit of a monster

And what did you do to have this said of you?
Because there are usually two common instances this is said by a parent.

>Children are little hellraisers and cause a ruckus, parents jokingly call them monsters
>Children act downright vile and cruel, doing things that no normal child would, get called out for being monstrous

Perhaps your just a thin-skinned puss who couldn't take a joke?

>>92048802

>She was, but she wouldn't reciprocate at all.
No she was not. Cough up a reference or fuck off, because Ursa was never ever shown giving Azula praise or love.

>She was amused by burning things, hurting people, and getting her way.

All kids like "getting their way". Not an issue. WTF kid doesn't like "getting their way"? This sounds exactly like an abuser trying to justify abuse.

She's an extremely talented firebender, able to show up her instructors and her older brother alike. Its something she can excel at and receive praise for. So, yes she likes to "burn things". Toph likes to "throw rocks" and Katara likes to "splash things". Not monsters.

Azula is mostly just callous and unempathetic. She has a severe rivalry with her brother likely fostered by Ursa's emotional abuse, and she does like to show him up. She does hurt and tease him, and that's not fair since its hardly Zuko's fault that Ursa favors him. Azula is troubled. But she is not a monster. Callous or unempathetic behavior (teasing, relational/physical aggression) is common in kids. Did you ever hit a kid or call one names growing up?

Azula's a troubled kid exhibiting common troubled kid behaviors. That Ursa considers Azula a "monster" for that, and that she allowed Azula to internalize this hate, did far more to warp Azula's mentality than Ozai's standard imperialist/power shtick.

>Ursa could not for the life of her understand how she had spawn such a child.

Ursa is dumb as a sack of rocks then.

>>92048921
who is Scrapper? I'm a newfag.

>>92048921
Some people take him too seriously, others just like watching the deluded monkey dance about with his horseshit. It's like that Mexican on /v/. Or Famicon/TMSfag and his "Muh superior animation" complaints.

>>92048933

I ain't projecting shit. I'm just calling it how it is.

>>92048921

Scrapper inspires those who come onto this site to be who they are inside and tell all the people who want cookie cutter lives for everyone to fuck off.

>>92048947
Level 99 Azulafag shitposter
Also, animal abuser and pedophile

>>92048951
I fucking cannot stand it when people argue with Scrapper because it derails entire threads. His posts should be auto-delete like you-know-who's are.

>>92048945
Ursa directly said she tried to understand her daughter and remarks how she just can't because Azula is just plain wrong in the head.
She did not abuse her daughter in any way, turning away when you have no other recourse is not abuse. It's shoddy parenting, but hardly abuse. Abuse would be rubbing things in the kids face, which she didn't do, she just allowed Azula to have her way and act how she pleased, any feelings of isolation were on Azula for not taking initiative when she felt she could have.

>>92048981
How would that even work? Without a trip, there's no way to delete posts like his. And it'd be too cumbersome to do some kind of pattern recognition, simply because if someone who wasn't his dumb ass could get banned for saying something in a sentence string that sounds like him and triggers the delete. That'd be pretty shitty to have happen.

>>92048836

>For being vindictive and cruel. That's not good parenting, it's way worse than anything Ursa did.
No, for being such a talented firebender that she shows up her own instructor. Is Toph vindictive and cruel when she shoots rocks at her instructors? Is Katara vindictive and cruel when she shot ice disks at her instructor (future instructor)?

And Toph and Katara are both older than Azula is at the time.

At any rate, giving her praise is actually way way better than ignoring someone entirely until they act up, roughly scolding them, and then considering them to be a "monster".

>>92048892
> Ursa tried to correct her,
"Tried to correct" is not the same as love and it is not the same as "getting through" or "reaching out" or "trying to understand". It's not the same as "caring".

Ursa's correction is literally 'go to your room'.

>zula pulled the "Screw you, I do what I want!" card every time
Nope, she goes to her room. See Search "Volume 2, page 10". She does what her mother tells her to do and is respectful of her mother's authority. Now what? Turns out you need more than just discipline and correction to love a child. Ursa totally ignores Azula until Azula burns that flower.

>And what Azula did at 9 is not normal for a child. They do not randomly burn shit
Uh, firebender kids do burn shit. Hell we see Korra burning shit at like 4 or whatever. She is a firebender this is part of who she is, yes she will burn stuff.

>laugh maniacally at serious things like possible death and maiming
Sure they do, plenty of kids lack empathy or deep understanding of death, especially in the abstract. Slapstick (like watching a cartoon or toy fall down the stairs and go "OUCH!") is very very funny for little kids.
Even teenagers can be very callous when it comes to death (just go to 4chan after a tragedy, you'll see callousness and meanness in spades).

She's a flawed human being, with issues. Not a "monster".

>>92049009
I'm just sick of it. It's infuriating. There was a period where we could barely even have Avatar threads because Scrapper would come in and derail them. I don't want to go back to that.

>>92048982

>Ursa directly said she tried to understand her daughter and remarks how she just can't because Azula is just plain wrong in the head.
Lol Ursa is such a piece of shit. Can you give a page#/episode #?

>She did not abuse her daughter in any way, turning away when you have no other recourse is not abuse
Never showing your daughter love and affection (and no "go to your room" does not count and does NOT fill a child's emotional needs for affection and acceptance) is abusive.

Considering her troubled daughter as a "monster" to the point where we see that Azula was both incredibly pained by this and also internalizes this as part of her own self-conception is horrifically abusive.

>any feelings of isolation were on Azula for not taking initiative when she felt she could have.
Reminder: Azula is literally 9 years old at the oldest in all flashback scenes with Ursa. It is not a little child's job to try to foster a relationship with a caregiver. Fuck off.

>>92049026
>"Tried to correct" is not the same as love
Except it is, dipshit. It's love to try and correct a child's poor behavior. But Azula would not take it, and Ursa gave up because she could not think of a way to nip her daughter's behavior in the bud. Odds are she probably would have had to be tougher and stricter, but it was just wasn't in her nature to do something like smack her children around until they stopped and listened for once in their lives.

Azula only listened because she didn't care to hear a "boring" lecture. If she could be alone to her own devices, she'd gladly go where she's out of sight to do so.

And guess what? Azula completely lacked empathy because she was fucked in the head. This was not her mother's fault, it was just how Azula was born. You can keep saying all this shit about Ursa was wrong for ignoring Azula, but it will never change the fact that Azula was BORN a monster, like because her father was one himself and his genes defiled her.

>>92048951
I've been in a thread that had both Scrapper AND Famicom.
I have seen Hell and it is autism

>>92049066
Watch the flashback episode, retard. She literally says how she can't understand why Azula is the way she is.

Ursa did try to show love and affection when she could, but quickly learned that Azula would not take to the kind Ursa had to offer. Maybe stricter discipline would have made something click, but that wasn't something Ursa had thought of.

It may not be a child's job, but it's not like they're incapable of starting a dialogue with someone if they're in the room together. You fuck off, dipshit.

>>92049100
What happened exactly? Can't imagine those two mixing together.

>>92048867
>>92048935

I don't know, my issues with my own mother (who I love dearly) are very very different from Ursa (thankfully). But I do know that a parent's warped feelings toward their kids definitely have a deep effect on the child. If a mother calls her very young child a "monster" that very young child (i.e. Azula) will internalize it. Azula was hurt by it. Azula rarely ever says she is hurt by anything, she's hurt by being a monster. And then (more tragically) she says her mother was right. Azula doesn't believe she is a human being capable of anything good. She believes she is a monster, just like her mommy taught her she was. How do you think she will act?

I think mostly:

1) I am older (pushing 30). I'm not about to start talking about how sociopathic and monstrous a little kid is for throwing bread too roughly at a duck or squishing a flower (closest normie equivalent to firebending one). Just...that's normal, grow up.
2) I have known a lot of kids including kinda bratty kids (and I mean it in the best way). Kids who act up and test boundaries and tease each other. There are all sorts of studies on aggression in kids and its as common as anything. Kids also like "getting their own way".

>>92049143
It's hardly tragic because Ursa was right on the money. Azula was not a normal child in any sense of the word.

>>92049117
They didn't mix, that's the thing.
They shitpost on different planes. Both holding multiple shitstorms but never overlapping. Like oil and water. Like an earthquake during a hurricane.

>>92048730
>has Toph go through multiple husbands, have a bad family life, and become some strict cop?

>the spoiled bitchy rich runaway girl with parents issues has a bad family life
The clues were there, you just didn't see them because they were cute.

And while Toph's crush on Sokka was cute, it was never going to become a canon ship. Sokka never showed any romantic interest in her and age-wise they don't match up.

>>92049009
The only reason why he doesn't use a trip anymore is because he's gotten banned so many times he literally can't use it without being perma-banned.

The only option I see would be to get a bunch of people to mass report him. It's super obvious to all of us that it's him, but unless a mod can compare IPs or something, I don't know how'd they know for sure.

>>92048945
>Did you ever hit a kid or call one names growing up?
Trying to murder your brother and the incarnation of Jesus isn't "just kid stuff".

>>92049075
>. It's love to try and correct a child's poor behavior.
NOPE. Azula could be burning the flower of a total 100% stranger and the stranger would say "stop that go away". Doesn't mean the stranger loves her. Correction isn't love. Telling someone off is not love. And it doesn't mean that Ursa loves her either, especially since Ursa entirely ignores her UNTIL she acts up.

Loving parents correct their kids, yes. But not all adults who correct children are suddenly loving as a result, you dip. Here, this is how parents might show love to their kids:

http://www.imom.com/love-language-the-5-love-languages-of-children

Ursa shows NONE of these, outside of a token kiss goodbye (didn't even say goodbye to her though or give her any message of love like she does for Zuko). No kisses, positive words, quality time (she literally ignores Azula until Azula acts up), no gifts or acts of service. She does the same thing a STRANGER would if a stranger caught her catching flowers on fire. Telling her to knock it off and go away.

>Azula only listened because
Wait you said Azula didn't listen? And now... she is listening? Also, Ursa didn't give Azula any kind of lecture (not that a lecture would be an effective discipline technique). A lecture requires some kind of sustained attention or care for long term learning. Ursa does not give a shit, she's mad Azula broke up her Zuko-time.

>Azula completely lacked empathy because she was fucked in the head
No she is a little kid. Children are taught empathy, and Azula is shown approx. zero empathy from her mother so.

>Azula was BORN a monster,
lol anything to justify child abuse I guess. How many kids in the foster system were "born monsters", would you estimate?

>>92049106
>Ursa did try to show love and affection when she could
No she didn't. Discipline is not the same thing as love or affection see above. It is necessary but it is not interchangeable.

>>92049219
I suppose that would work. But we'd have to be careful not to get trigger and attack anyone who happens to say something nice about Azula or any characters the shithead has shown interest in. Bad enough draw threads get like that with the black sheep requesters who make it impossible to mention a character without being accused of being that one guy who overdoes it with requests of them.

>>92049179
She was 100% normal.

>>92049219
>Trying to murder your brother and the incarnation of Jesus isn't "just kid stuff".
You are talking about Azula post-Ursa, as a mid-adolescent. We are discussing Azula while Ursa is abusing her, 4-9 years old or so. Ursa's abuse and neglect lead up to "trying to murder her brother".

>>92049263
>NOPE. Azula could be burning the flower of a total 100% stranger and the stranger would say "stop that go away". Doesn't mean the stranger loves her.
Maybe if you bullshit such a hypothetical case, sure. But when Ursa, her PARENT would try to do it, that would be love and an attempt to correct behavior because that's how a parent would react; they'd tell their kid to stop messing with shit. Ursa tried to be a mother for Azula and got rejected hard, so she focused on Zuko who at least showed signs of possibly not being a freak like his father and sister. Again, maybe Ursa should have just being more harsh on Azula to break her bad habits, but that doesn't make her the hitler of mothers no matter how much you project bullshit about your own shitty life onto her.

Discipline can be love when it's done to help stop a child from doing destructive things that will ultimately hurt them in the end. You dense fucking fool.

>>92049307
>She was 100% normal.
No she wasn't.

>Ursa's abuse
Ignoring your child because they won't listen is hardly that abusive. Ursa clearly figured she'd just let her daughter do as she pleased and wait for her to come crashing down when her "my way or the highway" attitude bit her in the flaming cooch.

>>92049321
>Maybe if you bullshit such a hypothetical case, sure. But when Ursa, her PARENT would try to do it, that would be love
Nope. Not necessarily. Not unless done within the context of a larger relationship where affection and loving gestures are shown.

BUT Ursa never ever shows anything more than the "dur stop burning the flowers" tier discussion that Azula would get from a stranger. She never shows Azula any positive attention or any physical affection. You really think all parents need to do to prove they love a child is to 1) be a parent and 2) yell at kids when they step out of line?
WOW looks like every abusive parent aside from extremely disengaged ones is (according to you) now magically loving.

And because Ursa fails to give Azula ANY positive attention whatsoever (as seen in the Search) obviously Azula will seek out negative attention because she's a little kid craving attention.

More harshness isn't the answer either. Giving Azula positive attention, equal to that of Zuko is. She no longer feels pitted against Zuko, she no longer needs to act up for attention (like with the flower). Discussing with Azula how better to channel her emotions and praising her for what Azula does right (positive reinforcement) is the answer.

>Discipline can be love
Yes. Discipline CAN be love. Discipline ALONE is not.

>>92049421
She tried, and when Azula wouldn't take to the kindness, Ursa gave up. It sucks, but hardly makes her the worse parent ever you thundering troglodyte.

>>92049342
>Ignoring your child because they won't listen

She doesn't ignore Azula "because she won't listen". ALSO you dip, most meaningful communication between parent and child comes from the child to the parent. Not vice versa. How the fuck do you not know this, this is true of literal INFANTS.

The question isn't 'Will Azula listen?', it's 'Will Ursa listen?' Can Ursa listen to Azula talk about her feelings, her hopes, her interests? That's the kind of attention a little kid might hope to get from a parent. Its not Azula's job to support Ursa and Ursa's toxic abusive personality and make sure she soothes Ursa's ego. Azula is < 9.

>Ursa clearly figured she'd just let her daughter do as she pleased

What are you even talking about.

>>92049458
>She tried,

WHERE. Show me. Or are you the fuck who thinks "go to your room" counts as kindness.

If it does, then Azula did take the kindness.

> the worse parent ever
Never said she was, Ozai is worse. And if anyone tried to say "blooh hooh Ozai did love Zuko don't you know disicipline is literally the same thing as love?" then they can fuck off too.

>>92049479
>She doesn't ignore Azula "because she won't listen".
Except that's what happened, you stupid cunt. Ursa tried to be a mother to her daughter, and Azula did not take to it because she is CRAZY. You can keep making up all of these nonexistent moments where Azula wanted to say things and got shot down, but it doesn't change the fact that she did things her way and when her mother gave up, it was only then she realized the consequences of her bratty behavior.

I like how Scrapper extrapolates every single interaction Ursa and Azula has ever had from a single five minute scene.

>>92049499
>Never said she was,
And yet you seem to focus squarely on Ursa and even bring up shit like her new life which was pretty much thrust upon her because she couldn't take her children with her when she arranged to leave so nobody would connect her to Azulon's death.

>>92049538
Don't forget how he brings up the comics which barely show much more and yet claims they do nothing but "paint Ursa as a horrible monster to her daughter who is totally sweet and innocent and only did every single thing because she never got any love ONCE"

>>92049518
>Except that's what happened,
No that is not what happened.
>Ursa tried to be a mother to her daughter
Where?

Like what the fuck are you talking about, give citations? Where do you ever see Ursa trying to be a MOTHER and not just a stranger bitching about flowers or royal titles?

>You can keep making up all of these nonexistent moments where Azula wanted to say things and got shot down
Parents job to initiate conversation.

Uh I dont even know who scrapper is, if I am supposed to be scrapper

>>92049546
>And yet you seem to focus squarely on Ursa
I came into the thread to see people defending Ursa. Not Ozai. The whole household is fucked up, and Ursa is incredibly emotionally abusive towards Azula.

>>92049574
Yes it was. Ursa fucking tried during her time with her family, but Azula wouldn't do what she expected when she tried to be a mom to her because Azula is a twisted child. So she gave up and focused on Zuko in the hopes that he would at least turn out somewhat well-adjusted.

It's both sides job to initiate conversation. If the child has a problem, there is no reason they can't step up and vocalize it. Yet Azula didn't see any problems until she her mother gave up and let her have her way. By then, it was probably too late because even if they tried to sit down and have a heart to heart, Azula probably wouldn't want to do anything that would rob her of what she found amusing.

>>92049597
Ursa is hardly that abusive. She wanted to be a better mother, but Azula was far from a normal child.

>>92049620
>Yes it was. Ursa fucking tried during her time with her family,
Citation please. Tell me about this magical scene you saw where Ursa tries to be a mother. You have Search Part 2 and Zuko Alone. Neither show anythihng like that.

>, but Azula wouldn't do what she expected when she tried to be a mom to her
Nice headcanon. Also yeah, kids don't always do what you expect. They aren't automatons. Azula is not at all twisted prior to Ursa's abuse, or even at the time of Ursa's abandonment, Azula is a PRODUCT of Ursa's abuse.

>It's both sides job to initiate conversation
No, Azula is 9. This is not a relationship of equals. This is a parent-child relationship. It is absolutely not Azula's job to care for this relationship, and this kind of attitude is a hallmark of abuse. Ursa should know it is wrong and bad to ignore children entirely.

> Yet Azula didn't see any problems until she her mother gave up
This never happens, up until the day Ursa leaves she is reprimanding Azula.

The day Ursa leaves, when she says that meoldramatic and shitty "WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT CHILD???" line (fuck Ursa) is when Azula (9 years old) says "I don't see why we can't just call FL Azulon 'Grandfather', someone else is going to be Fire Lord soon". Kids question things, that's how they learn.

Instead of explaining why they should still call him "Fire Lord Azulon" and not "Grandfather" (like a sane parent) she tells Azula "Not another word!" (uh ok). And Azula listens, she doesn't say another word. Til the very day Ursa leaves, she is closing down communication with Azula, reprimanding Azula without explanation, showing Azula zero affection, and Azula is still listening to her mother. Azula respects her mother's authority.

Ursa doesn't respect Azula's humanity.

>>92049638
>Ursa is hardly that abusive. She wanted to be a better mother, but Azula was far from a normal child.

Azula is pretty normal (keep in mind I am discussing her < 9 years old).

1) She firebends at people (her instructor and her big brother). This is not normal in a real world context, but bending at each other is very normal in ATLA. People are rarely killed or even badly hurt by it (unless the plot demands). Toph shoots earth pillars, Korra bends all elements at once, Katara shoots water at her brother. Aang is more pacifist (per his culture) and he's the exception not the norm.

For some reason, Azula shooting a fireball at her instructor is seen as "monstrous" but not Toph shooting earth pillars at her own. Truth is, both are incredibly talented benders being spoken down to by instructors and they delight in showing them up.
2) She breaks a toy (literal fashion doll given to her by Iroh). Not abnormal. Kids pop heads off Barbies all the time. She's 9.
3) She teases her big brother. Not abnormal for any little kid, especially since she is being raised in a household where Zuko monopolizes her mother's affection. Its just sibling rivalry.
4) Evidently she throws bread too hard at the ducks (according to Zuko who might just be making fun of her). Not abnormal.
5) She doesn't understand why she can't call her Grandfather, "Grandfather". Not abnormal.
6) She firebended a plant once, when her mother was ignoring her. Not at all uncommon in ATLA, like nobody cares about bending the local flora.

What do you think is "far from normal"? Outside of being able to shoot fireballs which is obviously abnormal in a real world context and not in the ATLA world?

>>92011949
>the headband
>not adding much to the story
Outside of pure plot episodes I don't think there was another episode that added more to the story.

Post moar Zuko x Jin.

File: Ty Lee 101.jpg (75KB, 960x720px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 960x720px

Not enough Ty Lee in season 3.