What's your opinion on the batfamily? Do you think they

Batman alone > Batman and Robin > (after this point is is stupid shit) > Batman and Robin and Batgirl and another Robin and catwoman and oracle and etc

The only family Bruce needs is the butler.

Dick and Damian.

I like the batfamily and I think they helped making the bat franchise bigger. Their fans (especially the 90's characters fans) who are really annoying.

anyone added past tim is absolutely worthless

They honestly make the Batman look bad in order to create family drama and character angst.

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>>91975987
Didn't want to start a new thread for this one question and this seems like a good place to ask.
Is this show worth the watch?

>>91976277
watch and find out friend

>>91975987
They sure helped with MERCHANDISING

>>91976277
I think it's good. It's about the same tone and quality as Batman: The Animated Series and the Justice League cartoons, if you've seen those.

>>91976277
edgy fedora sperg lords waste of time

They are ok. But any of the idiots who think they are what make Batman interesting don't get the character

Dick, Alfred, Damian = good

Jason, Cass = depends on the story, but decent potential in concept

Tim = awful self-insert mary sue

Babs = absolute garbage, shitty character who should have been phased out entirely in the new 52

others = generally not relevant enough to be considered part of the Batfam

>>91976394
>Damian = good
Come on now, he is the one who is making Batman look bad just by existing.

>>91976394
I'd put Damian in the same class as Jason and Cass.

>>91976365
>Batman: The Animated Series
It didn't had the quality to make it the same tone but it was a good series. Can't believe you actually think that.

I like the Batfamily as a friends to at-arms-length relationship group with limited members. They work together when they need to, mostly the others rather than with Batman himself. Batman either has a single Robin, or calls them in on big events, otherwise works alone.

I'd also limit them to having atleast developed tied to Bruce that can keep them strung together. Alfred, Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian are sealed. Barbara Gordon Batgirl i'd include only because Batman and Commisioner Gordon have a strong tie. (Unless she replaces Alfred as his informant/she's Oracle)

>>91976444
I guess I just don't feel like he's ever actually been misused. Though >>91976455 might be more fair.

>>91976528
I honestly think that DC cutting the batfamily to only 5 members (4 Robins + Batgirl) in n52 was a good idea. It's shame that it didn't stick.

>>91976237
this.

I legitimately want the rest dead or out of his life in a significant way. Maybe bring them back once a year for the annual. Send those cocksuckers to a different city.

>>91975987
It needs to be made smaller but unfortunately every writer wants to leave a lasting mark on the Batman ethos and the easiest way to do that is to introduce some OC to the team.

No mention of Duke. How does it feel, Scotty, that nobody gives enough of a fuck about your shitty character to even say he sucks?

>>91976673
>no one mentioned Duke
Thank you for reminding me.

Duke is a great addition and I prefer him over Tim and Damian.

>>91976716
>t. The Worst Batman fan ever


even worse than Kate Leth

>>91976394
I have never read a single thing with Babs in it (except Killing Joke), so I can really not understand why she is so universally hated - and frankly, I don't care. I have lost so much spunk to that thing and I don't care about capeshit anyways.

>>91976673
I really don't understand the point of Duke. He's redundant thematically since he's just Tim again and doesn't even add diversity since Luke and nuHelena exist.

>>91976767
His point is that he was made by Snyder, silly.

>>91976753
you can jerk off to art without wanting a character to be canon

>>91976394
>Cass = generally not relevant enough to be considered part of the Batfam
FIFY, anon. No need to thank me.

>>91975987
Dick and Alfred are key components to Batman's mythos. Alfred is a constant state of support for Bruce, while Dick is his lighthearted mirror, a look at someone who doesn't let vengeance and duty take over his life.

Below them are Jason and Damian, who are the negatively impacted members who can create good conflict within the family.

Cass was good for her early years as a purely duty bound vigilante and potentially perfect replacement for Batman as she would be able to devote herself to the cause. Now she just feels diluted.

The others are completely superfluous and just feel like padding.

>>91975987
I like all of them except Duke. But I guess i'm in the minority in that

>>91976767
As well as what anon says >>91976796 it's also clearly DC was setting up a black Batman. Whether it would be in a not-too-distant-future run ala Damian or a different universe.

I think they stepped back from that ledge when they realized it was suicide.

I don't think the idea of a Batfamily is too bad, just don't let the size get ridiculous.

>>91976377
Buzzwords, the post.

>>91976873
For that I would just make Helena Batman since Helena Wayne is on Earth-2. Good reflective shit.

Maybe that would be too fun though

There are good Batfamily stories, and everyone has a few favorite members, but it's so fucking bloated. Pretty much everyone agrees that some characters need to be trimmed, but the problem is that no one agrees on who needs to go (except Harper and Duke who seem universally disliked) and you would get massive backlash from phasing out characters, and inevitably some hack would write them back in and undo it all anyway.

With that said, I like the setup they've had for a while of having one book of solo Batman (or at least mostly solo with minimal interaction with the family) and another book of Batman + Batfamily. I also like the current revolving door setup for the Detective Comics team even if the writing leaves a bit to be desired.

>>91976964
But how could she be black Batman?

Honestly, I'd rather we did get Duke bat rather than Helena. We've already had "batfam member as batman" with dick and damian. Black batman adds something to that equation.

Even if I don't want any of those ideas to see the light.

Only damian or dick should ever wear that cowl. Jimbot was a hideous /a/ travesty.

>>91977041
>But how could she be black Batman?

Helena Bertinelli has been black for several years now, so just make her Batman. She is a better character than Duke.

Though she's not really Batfam proper right now so it would be awkward to do it right away. Would have to develop it.

>>91975987
Bateman should have been killed off, a pointless albino dyke that should just die

>>91977146
soz damn autocorrect, meant batwoman

>>91977103
I thought she was Italian or Hispanic?

Personally I think that the Batfamily is too congested atm, Synder didnt help by adding his OCs, not only that Gotham Girl might be added to the family. I also hate how Batwoman entered the family always liked her being solo.

>>91977041

Why need Duke for black Batman when you already have two Blackwings?

>>91977191
She is Italian and black.

>>91975987
Batman is so fucking boring and stunted as a character though. In the comics I prefer having the Batfamily around because he's so insufferable in them, in anything animated, anything to do with the Justice League, any movies, etc., I prefer him alone because usually DCAU Bruce is at least usually funny or admirable or his autism isn't as annoying.

Also this >>91976266

>>91977103

Helena, even a Helena Wayne, being Batman makes no fucking sense. She is Huntress, the daughter of the retired Bruce and murdered Selina. She's "hunting" the ex Catwoman's henchman that murdered her unrepentant criminal mother and her angst come from wanting revenge for a mother that lied to her most of her life, led a life of crime that ended costing she's life and hurting Helena and because Helena fears to end up as a criminal just like her mother thanks to her thirst of vengeance.

>>91977266

>Batman is so fucking boring and stunted as a character though. In the comics I prefer having the Batfamily around because he's so insufferable in them, in anything animated, anything to do with the Justice League, any movies, etc., I prefer him alone because usually DCAU Bruce is at least usually funny or admirable or his autism isn't as annoying.

You do know that Batman has become boring, stunted and sometimes almost villainous precisely because of the Batfamily, right?

Every time the Batfamily is around Batman lose most of his traits and acts like a complete asshole in order to create angst for the other characters.

>>91977191
She has always been Italian and white, she got diversity-ied lately.

>>91976033
How does it feel to be so absolutely and irrevocably wrong?

>>91977233
>>91977103
Is Helena Wayne the same person as Helena Bertinelli? Sincere question.

Where did the black and italian blood come from?Who's black? Is Selina being related to falcone canon? What makes her italian?

And has she appeared in Rebirth yet? Could be reverted back to the normal version.

>>91977423
No.

She's not.
Alternate versions.

>>91976610
They just need to keep Cass and Steph under Barbara's guidance as a team. They can be distant from Batman while also staying relevant and doing their own thing as a team of batgirls

>>91977423
>Is Helena Wayne the same person as Helena Bertinelli? Sincere question.

No, Wayne is from Earth-2 while Bertinelli is Earth-0

>And has she appeared in Rebirth yet?

Yes she's in Birds of Prey

>Could be reverted back to the normal version.

She is not probably because Spyral is the most interesting thing that happened to the character

>>91977458

Honestly, Cass and Steph should be the new Batgirl and Robin working underside Batman. It would be new and interesting seeing Batman putting up with a bunch of teenager girls.

Dick, Jason, Tim and even Damian are busted and tired. I won't even mention Barbara.

>>91977560
No, Damian is best, girls are icky and can't be Robin. No cooties in the batcave.

>>91975987
Dick and Alfred - great tier
Jason and Damian - good tier
Tim and Cass - okay tier
The rest - shit tier

>>91975987
I love the batfamily. Optimum family ends with Damian though.

I'm pleased to see most people agree on the Dick, Damian, Alfred triad.

>>91977603

Damian's quickly approaching Tim-levels of hitting the wall, anon. There's no where else to take him. Once you get to be a Teen Titans and have gay adventures with a Supersomething that's it for you.

>>91977654

In my opinion Damian only works with Dick.

Bruce and Damian as a blackhole of angst and melodramatic bullshit.

I kinda hoped supes and lois went missing with the Myx thing for a bit so we could get little Jon in the big city being a blue bird with robin or something.

Liked what they did with reborn but still wish Jon would have to stay with bats for a bit to toughen him up.

>>91977560
>Honestly, Cass and Steph should be the new Batgirl and Robin working underside Batman. It would be new and interesting seeing Batman putting up with a bunch of teenager girls.

That shits already been done before.

>>91977788

Not both at the same time.

>>91977456
>>91977510
Who are her parents in Rebirth?

Who is the black from, who is the italian from? Is she anything else?

>>91977819

It doesn't matter.

>>91977854
Why?

She can't just be black if she doesn't have black parents.

Selina is arguably italian if her being the daughter of falcone is canon. Bruce is in no way black.

So it does matter.

>>91977819
Well Bertinelli sounds italian, so she's italian from her dad , ergo her mom's a niggress.

>>91977819
I believe both of them are Italian by nationality, like she's literally from Italy. But I don't know if they've shown either of them on page. Not paying attention to BoP because the art was ugly.

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>>91977873
You're confusing Wayne and Bertinelli. Helena Wayne hasn't appeared in Rebirth, she was in the now ended Earth 2: Society series. Bertinelli's parents are both Italian it seems from the BoP series, see pic related.

>>91975987

Trim it down to just Alfred, Dick, Jason (he doesn't even have to be around), Damian, and a Batgirl. No more.

At this point there's so many it's fucking retarded and most stink of creators trying to leave some mark on the mythos as they know any Batman related sidekick will be lapped up by the Batfam fans.

>>91976252
>Their fans (especially the 90's characters fans) who are really annoying.

Also this.

>>91977975

Her dad looks like Matches Malone. Mighty suspect.

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>>91978015

>>91977654
>most
I don't think you know how to count, anon.

>>91977975
So why was someone telling me either of them are black?

>>91977990
What about Tim, he fits in with the rest.

>>91978238
Seeley had a tweet at some point or another where he said she was half black/Italian, but I couldn't find it. Here's something that's close enough.
>Of all the things I've made up in comics who knew that a black Italian woman would confuse people the most?
https://twitter.com/HackinTimSeeley/status/610880952445857792

>>91978238
I think you are confused because you think light skinned black people don't exist and can't be from Italy.

>>91976610
They should've cut it down more by getting rid of Tim.

He has literally been dead weight for the entire new 52.
Dick, Jason, and Damian hold more interesting positions and personalities than him, and Teen Titans will always be mediocre at best but is usually garbage.
A decade ago there was a small "Dick is totally superfluous rip :(" sentiment, but that's pretty much been transplanted to Tim.

>>91978408
Okay but we're back to square one.

I guess I'll just recontextualize the question here.

I said Duke was clearly going to be black batman but that DC walked it back, someone then told me that "helena wayne" would fit that bill better.

I said "how could she be black batman"

to which i was answered "helena bertinelli has been black for several years now.
Then I was told that bertinelli and wayne are different. So back to the original question

How would Helena Wayne ever be black batman?

>>91977990
What's the point of having both Jason and Damian though.

>>91978515
>someone then told me that "helena wayne" would fit that bill better.

No the comment was that Helena (main universe) could do it because Helena Wayne already has and it would be cute if the two universes had both Helenas as Batman.

>>91978483
No I know most olive skinned italians are actually decendents of northern italians fucking arabs and blacks.

Cool insinuation though. And in these pages neither of her parents looked black or even olive toned. >>91978086 >>91977975

They look more asian than anything.

>>91978566
>For that I would just make Helena Batman since Helena Wayne is on Earth-2.
Now I see how I misread this. Thank you.

All it took was somebody actually following a thread to tell me where my wrong turn was.

I have a question, how many of you here like all the robins? Be honest.

>>91979256
Nobody will say yes.

Everyone has their favorite, everyone has their hated. Almost everyone only wants 1-3 at a time at most.

>>91979256
I like them all. I just don't Tim needs to exist anymore.

>>91979291
Like, not necessarily love or have them all as favorites.

One of them is my favorite, but I don't hate the others.

>>91979371
I have to agree with this. I like them all, but I do think that Tim is a dead weight.

>>91979256
I like the main 4 but I dont want them all around all the time.
Dick should distance himself more.
Jason shouldnt have returned....though i'm enjoying rhato.
I dont know what should be done with tim at this point.
Damian is fine as he is now, I hate he retreads the same arc over and over though.

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Can we compile all of the panels of Dick getting punched/slapped by Batman?

>>91979592
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91720861/#q91721068
First one technically isn't him but still

Same thread has Bat-family members punching Dick in the face later on.

>>91979592
You honestly deserved the punch, Dick.

>>91979675
kek thanks anon

>>91979734
He does most of the time.

Why all the hate for Barbra?

>>91979881
I think it's just Cass and Steph fans who hates her because of muh batgirl mantle. I also think some of Dick fans hate her because they don't want her around Dick.

>>91979734
Agreed, you don't help someone who's grieving by saying "I was better than the dead kid, you should have recognized that."

>>91977691
>Bruce and Damian as a blackhole of angst and melodramatic bullshit
This. I dislike Bruce/Damian dynamic.

>>91979881
Cause she's better as Oracle. She's in the same cycle of shit Dick was in the New 52. Then Grayson happened and the character has been on a role since. Babs desperately needs that now.

Also introduce a new Batgirl or make it more than one. Simone had the right idea in Future's End.

>>91976716
>Duke is a great addition and I prefer him over Tim and Damian.
Synder pls

>Bruce: Batman. Spends most of his time in Gotham, but thanks to the extended Batfamily, he can comfortably leave Gotham in their hands whenever he has to deal with Justice League business.
>Dick: Nightwing. Operates primarily in Bludhaven, but helps Bruce out from time to time. As Gotham and Bludhaven are sister cities, their paths cross often, since what affects Gotham often affects Bludhaven as well.
>Tim: Robin A. Detective specialist. Spends a lot of time with the Titans.
>Damian: Robin B. Still in training so he spends the most time with Bruce.
>Jason: Ex-member of the family. Runs an underground organization and utilizes shadier methods to keep Gotham safe, dealing with other mobs. Bruce doesn't approve, but Jason has so firmly planted himself in the city's intricate power balance that there's not much he can do. Bruce still just wants Jason to come home.
>Babs: Oracle. Supports the Batfamily.
>Cass: Batgirl A. Combat specialist. Bruce should just adopt her already.
>Steph: Either Robin C or Batgirl B. Plays sidekick to Cass.
>Kath: Batwoman. Isn't really part of the main circle, but respects Batman and works with them when necessary.
>Lucas: Techie. Sometimes comes with Bruce when he goes out of the country due to his experience in international affairs. Great with machines.
>Helena: Huntress. Not at all part of the family, but a lot of thugs think she is. Doesn't get along with the Batfamily much.
>Superman: The closest thing Bruce has to a best friend. Gotham and Metropolis are close to each other so on the occasion when something in one city affects the other, they work together.

There. I fixed everything.