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PUNISHER STORYTIMEOF PAIN
For this whole year I'm going to be storytiming Punisher comics at least once per week. Most of them will be pre-Ennis stories, but expect the occasional Ennis era or post-Ennis era story as well.
This week I'll be posting the infamous Jigsaw Puzzle story arc.
I'll be honest with you. This story is... not good. No, that's not even accurate. This story is irredeemable shit. No, that's not even fair to irredeemable shit. This is just BAD. Like there aren't even really words to describe how ill-advised this story was. It's one those who--thought-this-was-a-good-idea things from the 90s that was so bad and so instantly poorly received that Marvel right after the story finished basically pretended it never happened and hasn't acknowledged it since. Why exactly? Read it and find out. And if it doesn't seem THAT bad at first, then trust me: Keep reading. It will be.
Also of note is that this arc is 6 issues long, making it the longest Punisher story ever as of the time of its publication. Thankfully for anyone who had to suffer through this when it was coming out, it was also published twice per month, so it only took 3 months to finish instead of 6, which to be fair had to have made this much easier to endure.
The only positive thing that can really be said about this story arc really is that it featured some really nice cover work on some of the issues, but that hardly matters given what's behind them.
Oh, and did I mention that it was written by the otherwise usually excellent Mike Baron? To this day I still wonder if this was his idea or if it was forced on him by editorial. I like to imagine it was the latter, because I somewhat doubt editorial'd have let any writer make such dramatic changes to the core of a series without their permission. Though who knows... (If you do know I actually genuinely would like to know myself.)
Anyway, let's get this over with.
PUNISHER #35-40
STORYTIME
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>>91949530
PREVIOUS STORYTIMES HERE:
Circle of Blood
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/88815455/
Return to Big Nothing
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/88890646/
Marvel Preview #2 / Marvel Super Action #1
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89163408/
Punisher #1-10
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89314601/
Daredevil #257
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89328851/
Assassin's Guild (Marvel Graphic Novel #40)
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89514921/
Punisher #11-20
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89630150/
Intruder (Marvel Graphic Novel #51)
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/89872272/
Punisher War Journal #1-7
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/90057656/
Punisher War Journal #8-9 / Punisher #21-25
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/90256890/
Shadowmasters #1-4
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/90266172/
Amazing Spider-Man Annual #15 / Daredevil #182-184
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/90424952/
Punisher War Journal #10-19
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91415649/
Punisher War Journal #20-24
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91603354/
Punisher #26-34
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/91789401/
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>>91949557
BUMP IF YOU'RE READING
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>>91949590
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>>91949629
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>>91949629
Art's nice at least.
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>>91949654
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>>91949673
>>91949657
It usually was on Marvel books back in the day. They used to have super high standards.
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>>91949694
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>>91949717
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>>91949694
Art seems to be mostly real lazy these days.
Although when it's on point, it's on point.
DESU, it doesn't have to be perfect all the time as long as the style and designs fit the story that they're trying to tell.
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>>91949741
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>>91949767
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>>91949790
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>>91949817
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>>91949790
>LAIR!
>6-666
Huh. I wonder what's insi...
>>91949817
...welp. Shocking.
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>>91949841
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>>91949972
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>>91950001
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>>91950021
Bullpen Bulletins
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>>91950045
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>>91950076
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>>91949841
Oh, hey, Not-Jim Jones is back.
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>>91950122
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>>91950150
Letters page
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>>91950076
>>91950122
>>91950150
Fucking Billy.
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>>91950177
ISSUE #36
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>>91950336
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>>91950359
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>>91950382
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>>91950464
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>>91950410
>rocket jumping off the highway
niiice
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>>91950489
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>>91950566
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>>91950597
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>>91950809
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>>91950838
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>>91950861
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>>91950891
Letters page
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>>91950915
ISSUE #37
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>>91950935
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>>91950997
For all the things that go wrong in this story, the art is not one of them. I should have mentioned that in the OP. "The only positive thing that can really be said about this story arc really is that it featured some really nice cover work on some of the issues AND it had nice artwork."
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>>91951018
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>>91951418
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>>91951506
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>>91951506
>that frankface
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>>91951541
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>>91951566
Letters page
>>
Tourists from /k/ reporting in. Storytime of pain means it's supposed to be bad?
>>
So far this doesn't seem HORRIBLE, at least not worthy to be considered a full-on Storytime of Pain. It's just kind of disjointed and messy, and the plot is full of holes. It's not awful, just kind of mediocre.
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>>91951601
ISSUE #38
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>>91951665
>>91951640
>Storytime of pain means it's supposed to be bad?
Yep.
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>>91951665
Jigsaw looks like a drag queen.
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>>91951692
>>91951642
Trust me.
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>>91951759
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>>91951785
>first panel
>jigsawgetsraped.jpg
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>>91951824
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>>91951914
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>>91951935
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>>91949530
>written by the otherwise usually excellent Mike Baron
There was also that stupid arc where Frank turns black, though that was probably forced by editorial to promote the Luke Cage series with a tie-in.
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>>91951997
>>91951978
This and that are probably the low points of pre-Marvel bankruptcy mass-relaunch Punisher.
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>>91952045
>mass-relaunch
I probably should have said "mass-cancellation", referring to when Harras gave the bulk of Marvel's books the ax in 1995 and relaunched The Punisher with a single title following Marvel's second bankruptcy of the decade.
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>>91952117
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>>91952146
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>>91950624
Punisher bike?
He's referring to a noir detective book here.
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>>91952173
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>>91952206
>>91952206
LOTS of book references in Mike Baron comics.
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>>91952225
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>>91952248
>>
This really feels like a sub-par James Bond movie.
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>>91952273
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>>91952301
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>>91952324
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>>91952352
Letters page
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>>91952379
ISSUE #39
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>>91952449
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>>91951506
They gave him a burger instead of a club sandwich...
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>>91952474
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>>91952502
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>>91952480
>fancy hotel can't even make a fucking sandwich right
Fucking latinfags.
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>>91952530
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>>91952502
what in the fuck happened to the art?
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>>91952552
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>>91952572
>>91952561
This is like the third artist on the arc.
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>>91952598
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>>91952598
>Frank Castle stars as: KARATE KID
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>>91952716
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>>91952742
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>>91952561
It was double shipping at this point so they were switching artists like crazy. Maybe some artist was embarrassed about rushed subpar work so used a pseudonym, "Jack Slamn" doesn't look like a real name and this issue is the only credit for it.
>>
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>>91952764
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>>91952789
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>>91952819
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>>91952842
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>>91952864
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>>91952886
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>>91952864
>that color in the second panel
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>>91952905
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>>91952937
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>>91952967
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>>91952987
Letters page
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>>91953016
ISSUE #40
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>>91950541
>Aryan blond
>Spanish name
>Rastafarian accent
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>>91953036
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>>91953058
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>>91953086
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>>91953058
okay, what the fuck
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>>91953108
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>>91953140
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>>91953168
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>>91953058
Welp, this just took a hard left into fucking strange.
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>>91953196
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>>91953219
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>>91953246
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>>91953270
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>>91953297
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>>91953320
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>>91953341
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>>91953362
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>>91953391
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>>91953420
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>>91952274
I think it's closer to a super cheesy 80's movie. Which actually is somewhat fitting.
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>>91953444
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>>91953467
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>>91953482
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>>91953505
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>>91953533
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>>91953533
That third panel is good smugFrank fodder.
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>>91953562
[JR]And mercifully, it's over.[/JR]
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>>91953040
This is about the time the second wave of diversity pushes came out. Maybe it was deliberate? Or more likely just bad coordination from rushing shit so much.
>>
Well, that was stupid.
>>
>>91953974
It was bearable right up until the last issue. Hell, just change things around a bit so the reverend is a delusional mutant and Satan never actually shows up, and then boom, the story itself works out fine.
>>
>>91953590
Thanks OP (I think).
The early issues of Baron's run were really good, what happened.
>>
>>91954133
This and one of the last arcs Baron did (it might have even been THE last arc, I can't remember for sure) were the only really unforgivable parts of his run. The majority of the rest of it was and still is excellent.
Thankfully, after this arc it goes straight back to being pretty solid.
>>
>>91954133
This is a case of the ending pretty much ruining everything.
>>
>>91954474
Meant to reply to this post: >>91954020 but it works for that other one, too.
>>
>>91949530
>Jigsaw looking like an actual wiseguy
>REDRUM license plate
>"CAR BY PORSCHE. SUIT BY BLASE. FACE BY PUNISHER!"
I love everything about this cover.
>>
>>91949557
Nice art.
>>
>>91949629
>brass knuckles
Fucking love that shit. Baron knew how to write believable hard-hitting high-impact action scenes like no other writer outside of asia.
>>
>>91949741
>>91949767
>>91949790
Punisher and Microchip's relationship was always strained. It was always interesting how they'd clash from time to time.
>>
>>91949817
well that was... unexpected
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>>91949894
>license plate
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>>91950021
Well that is fucked up.
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>>91952502
Venezuela really made Jigsaw let himself go.
>>91953058
For anyone wondering, this isn't Lucifer, but an X-Men villain called Belasco impersonating him.
>>
>>91950122
THAT'S the Jigsaw I know!
>>
>>91956417
I think that was a retcon?
>>
>>91950359
>>91950382
>>91950410
>>91950436
This is a REALLY well done car chase. I really like how the cars are drawn and especially how motion is depicted.
>>
>>91950436
>dat last panel
LOL!
>>
>>91950501
lol
>>
>>91950076
>TMNT
nice
>>
>>91950680
This is a REALLY fucking nice page!
>>
>>91950712
>Frankenstein, meet Dracula!
Is this a reference to something?
>>
>>91950782
This is a fucking awesome page.
>>
>>91950838
Fucking LOVE that first panel. One of those "Punisher in a nutshell moments".
>>
>>91950915
>dat first response
EVERYONE READ THIS!
How is it possible to have that little self-awareness!? FFS!
>>
>>91950935
This is the weakest cover out of the arc.
>>
>>91951098
>AVENGERS ASSEMBLE! HAIL TO THE CHIEF! JUST SAY NO! FUCK YOU, MICROCHIP!
LOL!
>>
>>91951116
>Gunny Bear
lol
>>
>>91951170
This is awesome.
>>
>>91951199
>car/plane
lol wat.
>>
>>91951506
Despite all the things that did go wrong with this arc, it still gave us one of the best Punisher pages ever.
>>
>>91951665
I'm digging the puzzle design of this cover, but Jigsaw looks retarded dressed like that.
>>
>>91950336
Love this cover.
>>
>>91949530
Friendly reminder that Mike Baron murdered his wife and got away with it.
>>
>>91961001
What are you talking about Larry?
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>>91951935
Smoooooth as silk.
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>>91952146
>Really? I thought you were raised in a barn.
Frank bringing the quips.
>>
>>91952324
Jigsaw is such an underrated character.
>>
>>91952352
OH SHI-
>>
>>91952379
>Legion of Night by Steve Gerber
This sounds interesting. Has anybody read this?
>>
>>91952449
That cover is INTENSE!
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>>91952474
OH FUCK!
>>
>>91952502
>>91952530
>Jigsaw looking like a completely different character
If not for the face I'd have no idea who this was supposed to be.
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>>91952502
WHAT IN THE FUCK!?
>>
That was a fucking stupid twist. Way to spoil the entire arc.
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>>91950076
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>>91950436
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>>91951150
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>>91951393
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>>91952789
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>>91952789
>>91952789
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>>91952864
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>>91958206
Meant to quote this page: >>91950712
THAT is a REALLY fucking nice page!
>>
>>91952561
This artist's scenery is actually somewhat nice looking, but his figure work is a mess.
>>
>>91952598
It's fucking Ryu from Street Fighter.
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>>91952789
Why the fuck can't this dude draw Jigsaw on-model?
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>>91952842
OH SHIT!
How was this undone? Was it just a temporary thing that wore off? Or did someone fuck him up again?
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>>91952886
Is he gonna just stand straight up after that or what?
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>>91952789
>>91952819
>>91952842
>>91952864
>>91952886
>>91952905
>>91952937
>>91952967
This is so out of place in a Punisher comic.
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>>91952987
This is just retarded.
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>>91969919
It's actually not, this crazy magic dude is one if the first punisher villains, dating back to his first ongoing. Jigsaw is the only older Frank nemesis.
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>>91953036
OK cover.
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>>91970155
In the original appearance he was just Jim Jones. This is DRAMATICALLY different from that.
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>>91953058
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!?
>>
>>91953058
>their faces in the second panel
yeah that's pretty much my reaction
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>>91953140
when did punisher ever kill innocent people?
>>
>>91953444
>SNAP
Baron is so fucking amazing at writing satisfying violent fight scenes.
>>
>>91951199
This is amazing
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>>91953467
That is fucking BRUTAL!
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>>91953505
She is way too happy that he has his looks back lol. They are totally going to fuck later lol.
>>
>>91953533
Nice.
>>
>>91971442
To be fair, there's a LOT of comics where the Punisher just opens up on a room with a machinegun or blows up an entire building, secure in the knowledge that they're all bad guys when he couldn't possibly have done that homework. Personally, I'd handwave that under the same clause as "serious concussions never cause permanent harm", but if you wanted to, I'm sure you could argue he's taken out the occasional plumber who just happened to be working in the money laundering front's back room, or a bum who'd snuck into the basement on a cold night.
>>
>>91953467
>>91953482
So he just fucking lets him go!?
Am I the only one who thinks this is out of character? I understand why they did it because it's not like they're going to actually kill Jigsaw, but they could have at least made some excuse like having Punisher rush off and leave Jigsaw alive because he had to be somewhere else and didn't have time to kill Jigsaw, or just SOMETHING.
>>
That twist is one of the biggest rage-inducing bullshit things they've ever pulled in a Punisher comic. What a fucking horrible idea.
They took what was a promising setup (Jigsaw's big return) and a few decent to good early issues (although the scenes with The Rev weren't to my liking even in the early issues) and completely ruined the story with all the supernatural shit near the end.
>>
>>91976611
They obviously wanted to introduce a supernatural aspect to the series, which never works. It's no big deal to have him run into a superhero or super villain from time to time, but trying to make satan one of his big antagonists and even going so far as having satan connected to the drug trade to add an inherently supernatural twist to the series is one of the worst ideas ever. Glad they dropped this shit and never brought it up again.
>>
>>91949530
ISSUE BY ISSUE BREAKDOWN OF THIS ARC:
1ST PART: This one isn't that bad, but I really don't care for The Rev as a character in it. The only time he worked was as a Jim Jones analogue, and that was because that was based on something real. Making him an evil wizard is ill-fitting at best and stupid at worst. The scenes with him don't really work. But the scenes with Punisher vs. Jigsaw are actually quite decent. The beginning scene is cool and Jigsaw's run from the law at the end where he kills the cop(s) and flees ain't bad either. The clash/tension between Punisher and Microchip is also not half bad. Cover is fucking awesome, interior art's nice as well.
2ND PART: This issue is FUCKING AWESOME. The car chase, Jigsaw ROCKET JUMPING (lol), the gang war, the gunfights, Punisher wasting gang members, the cool aftermath to the whole thing... Just an utterly fantastic fucking issue. Plus Mark Texeira is always one of the best artists in comics and this here is no exception. Beautiful work. No surprise that the best issue of the bunch is also entirely unrelated to the main plot of the arc. They took a detour from the overarching story and it produced the only truly great issue of the bunch. Even the cover kicks ass.
3RD PART: This issue is a mixed bag. Running over the dudes was cool as fuck, and come to think of it the whole warehouse scene wasn't bad in general even if it could get silly in parts. The misleading cover though is bullshit and makes you think the issue is about something completely different. After that though you get a flying car, which was just goofy. Then Punisher at the resort. The part with the blowgun though is genuinely one of the best pages in any Punisher comic ever. Overall I can't hate this issue even if a scene or two aren't perfect. The gorgeous art sweetens the package.
>>
>>91978092
4TH PART: And now it's a full blown James Bond comic lol. Jigsaw is dressed like a dumbass, Punisher is Sean Connery, the tour guide is OBSESSED with a scratch on her face... The pluses are a cool ending with Jigsaw and the badass Rambo moment when Punisher gets ready to do some killing. The art's solid, and the cover is REALLY well designed despite Jigsaw looking weird on it.
5TH PART: Here's where everything starts to fall apart. The Rev dominates this issue, which gives it too much of a supernatural feel. Who thought anyone wanted to read a Punisher story about an evil Wizard? There's not much of anything positive to say about this issue. The character interactions between The Rev and everybody else are just dumb and all the shit about his magic powers is RETARDED and doesn't feel like a Punisher comic AT ALL. And the ending has to be one of the worst endings of any Punisher issue ever. The art has a number of issues, chiefly of which is that Jigsaw can't be drawn on-model or even consistently from page-to-page. The cover isn't even anything special. Weak issue.
6TH PART: This just sucks. The art is decent again, and the cover's OK-ish, and the fight between Punisher and Jigsaw is well done, but there's literally nothing even remotely positive to say about this issue. We've got what might be the worst plot twist in any Punisher comic ever, an utterly fucking retarded supernatural plot, characters that don't belong in any Punisher comic ever being allowed to shit up half the fucking pages, long drawn out scenes of magical hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, and Punisher having the opportunity to kill Jigsaw with almost zero effort and then just letting him go because the writers/editors couldn't be bothered to even try to come up with an excuse for keeping Jigsaw alive. WHAT A FUCKING MESS. This issue is GARBAGE and never should have been allowed to happen.
>>
>>91978297
In summary, pretty much everything that boils down to "Punisher vs. Jigsaw" is awesome, the supernatural shit is ill-advised, and the rest is acceptable and occasionally excellent, so they probably should have thrown out the entire ending and just made the story about Punisher fighting Jigsaw.
>>
bumping for others
>>
>>91949790
IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING JOJO REFERENCE?
>>
>>91949741
Which issues had Punisher vs. the Reavers? I've always wanted to read that.
>>
Did that even exist in 1990?
>>
>>91982253
That was in the last storytime. Look here: >>91949557
>>
>>91982267
Meant to reply to: >>91981199
>>
>>91982292
Thank you!
>>91982267
First published in 1987.
>>
>>91978297
>and Punisher having the opportunity to kill Jigsaw with almost zero effort and then just letting him go because the writers/editors couldn't be bothered to even try to come up with an excuse for keeping Jigsaw alive.
I thought it was because of the bet with Belasco. He said that the Rev would lose his powers if Jigsaw lost (i.e. was killed) and Frank still needed them to fix his face (kind of hard to fight crime incognito when you look like, well, a jigsaw puzzle).
>>
>>91950336
Excellent cover desu
>>
>>91982614
Oooohhhh... OK. That still seems like a cop out, but I guess it works well enough as a "comic book-y explanation".
>>
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>>91976659
>Glad they dropped this shit and never brought it up again.
Closest they ever came was the girl from this arc reappearing (though looking almost completely different) in this later issue, and the next Jigsaw story mentioning that he was caught trying to sneak back into America with a bunch of that drug that the Rev was harvesting.
>>
>>91957650
Surprised they could even do that. They didn't even slightly change the designs.
>>
>>91957907
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2014226/
and Jigsaw looks like Frankenstein
also he's using an Eastern European gun, but that might be a bit of a reach
>>
>>91953058
I thought you said this was bad. So far it's been great and this seals the deal.
>>
>>91963391
Gerber definitely brought his A-game. If you love his Man-Thing, you'll love Legion of Night.
>>
>>91971442
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Punisher_Ghosts_of_Innocents_Vol_1_1
>>91981199
It could be an REO Speedwagon reference - I'm pretty sure the West didn't know about Jojo until the first dubbed OVA
>>91984087
Shut up, Mike Baron.
>>
bump, gonna read this later tonight.
>>
>>91984087
I have no idea if this post is ironic or not.
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