>Superman and Batman have team up books for decades >Luthor

>>91931408
It's kinda what's right with writers. While the novelty might be fun for a while Luthor's smug and Joker's crazy, and while both may smile, the whole team-up would be spent with them trying to out kek the other one.

tl;dr: no solid narrative.

DCAU's team up was fun
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=1ls0FC6oTV8

Lex Luthor is an egomaniac control freak and Joker lives to undermine people with sticks up their ass. Even as an odd couple thing it could only work in Brave and the Bold levels of cartoonish settings.

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>Played VS System back in the day
>Built Injustice Gang deck
>These two were the linchpin of the build
I really missed version 1.0 of VS System.

There's no reason to be friends.

>>91931408

Why would they be friends?

One's a box stuffed with fireworks, TNT and nitroglycerin topped C-4 and the other's a twitchy kid with a brand new lighter. Any team up would end badly for the both of them.

>>91931408
There's less than no reason for them to be friends.

It would make more sense for Circe and Black Manta to be pals, since they at least have something in common.

Shit, I'd even by Sinestro and Universo being buddies.

>>91931408
They had a good team up in that DCAU animated movie thing, I think, and the few other times they've crossed paths have been decent at least.

The main issues with them getting together often would be that the characters are too radically different, and that the novelty would wear off quick.

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>>91931699
They hate Batman and Superman.

Why are Bruce and Clark friends? The only real reason is "They're both superheroes."

>>91932765
Bruce and Clark have a history with each other, respect each other, and place a great deal of trust in each other. They've experienced a lot together and have forged a strong connection.

Lex would never respect the Joker and Joker would soon as kill Luthor the moment the perfect opportunity presents itself.

>>91932765
I mean, that's pretty much as good a reason as anyone has to be friends with who they're friends with. If you spend a lot of time with someone you get along with and you have vaguely similar interests, you'll be friends.

>>91932904
>Joker
>killing Luthor
>ever

Hop off that Batdick.

>>91931408
I think it's in the DCAU where Lex says that he didn't bring in the Joker on some supervillain team-up because "everyone knows that the Joker's too wild."

>>91933632

I think he means attempt too, whether he'd succeed is another question.

I think realistically Joker would try to kill Luthor for the lolz at some point.

>>91932765
They are both manchildren that had unusual childhood, obsessed over collecting stuff, their collections are bigger than most museums, they both find easy to relate to animals and love life. Outside superheroism they bothtruly love adventures. Clark and Bruce have a lot of reasons to be friends, batman and superman are rivals. Remember, Bruce call him Clark, while Diana calls him Kal.

Lex teamed up with Joker on Infinite Crisis' ending and it was super cute! We deffo need more of this anti-super pair.

>>91932765
they also watched together some alien worms fuck and then die, and they cried at the end

>>91931408
>Lawful Evil
>Chaotic Evil
nuff said

Does anyone have that Lex and Joker comic that's in the Calvin and Hobbes style?

>>91931408
It's almost as if sociopaths can't bond.

id read it

its never happened because writers arent as creative ad youd think

im pretty sure theres countless stories of people like Lex controlling people like Joker and vice versa

which is, i think, the only good way a story like that could play out

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>>91934781
You mean literally the first result when you google "joker and lex"?

>>91931408
what use would they have for each other?

>>91932765
Anyone the source of this? Keep seeing it.

>>91934368
>Bruce call him Clark, while Diana calls him Kal.
This is something that for some reason always sticks with me

>>91932765
>implying Superman wouldn't just politely volunteer to sleep on the floor
>implying the hard wooden floorboards are a match for his indestructible kryptonian physique

Also
>implying Bruce Wayne can't just throw a load of money at this problem to make it go away
>including but not limited to; giving somebody a million dollars in exchange for their room, buying the entire business and changing the rules, having his private jet just pick him up and fly somewhere else to sleep, buying and having delivered an entire extra bed, and so on.

>>91931408
I'm pretty sure they used to team up back in the Silver Age days. There's also the occasional spinoff like Lego Batman 2
Overall though, it'd be hard to justify them considering how different they are.

>>91935358
Explain why that's significant to a non comic reading dumbo.

>>91931408
Because usually Luthor is also a legit business man and the best way to keep it hidden that he has worked with someone like the Joker, thus possibly fucking his image and his business' image over, is to never work with him. Do you even PR?

>>91931408
Wasn't there that miniseries where all the DC villains were dropped off on some alien world and Lex and Joker ended up heading two opposing factions?

>>91935398
Clark doesn't even need to sleep. Unless he was depowered for whatever reason in that issue.

other Bat villains would do better hanging out with Lex than Joker

Riddler, Bane, Ras, they would all have an easier time working with Lex

>>91935513

Salvation run, it was awful. Joker winning was stupid.

>>91935282
I'm pretty sure it's that Batman Superman comic where Deadpool...well, """""Dea-""""" from the other universe comes in and prevents the two from getting assassinated by Deathstroke.

>>91931408
>Luthor and Joker
>not Luthor and Ra's

>>91935548

I think Lex would think Nygma beneath him, Bane is hired help from his Secret Six days and Ra's was once his teacher but they had a falling out IIRC

>>91935548
Would Norman Osborne be a good partner for a oneshot Spidey crossover?

>>91935548
Black Mask?

>>91935695

that would be awesome, both of them obsessed with their respective enemies and then Norman goes full Goblin and Lex gets an epiphany of how silly his obsession looks like form the outside.

>>91931408
They have literally nothing in common. Lex Luthor would consider himself closer to Batman than Joker.

>>91935398
Bruce was being a dick, Clark's nice but he's not a doormat.

>>91935429
Bruce sees a man, Diana sees the superman

>>91935548
True, but still unlikely to happen. Bane and Ra's are the sort to be in charge and not share anything and Nygma would be too annoying to Lex.

>>91935946

That's how comics like to portray Wonder Woman relationship with Superman, what with her always starting to talk about mankind as if it was a lowly race beneath her whenever they get close.

>>91935600
>>91936123
they would all be hired help to Lex

>>91935946
>>91936682
Ew no fuck off. They both usually call him Clark, Wonder Woman "sees only the Superman" in shit like Injustice and Kingdom Come where she just exists as a Superman-obsessed warmonger.

>>91931408
Why would someone like Lex wants to be friends with some faggotass clown?

>>91931408
>Why isn't this billionaire, who often deals with the government and regularly fights/survives a super-powerful alien from another planet who has saved the world multiple times, friends with some dumb edgy clown who has killed some people

>>91936841

In pre-Flashpoint canon when they first met and went quickly to a romantic date she kept comparing him to an Olympian god, drawing parallels between and questioning once he started disagreeing with her. Later on she complained to herself that she he wasn't the god she thought he was, more of an enforcer to men's rule too content in protecting the status quo of the world.

In New 52 as well with her comparing herself and Superman to Zeus and stressing how different they're from the humans, in a conversation meant to highlight the fact she was distancing herself from Steve Trevor because she felt guilty over him getting hurt because his association to her since he's all too human and feeble.

Wonder Woman when paired with Superman is there to highlight his alien and godly nature.

>>91935033
yeah, that one! anybody have it?

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>>91932765
>They hate Batman and Superman.
And yet Luthor is not amiable with many of the other Superman villains or Gotham's usual suspects.

>>91935282
It's a Superman/Batman Annual by Joe Kelly.

I feel like Lex and the Joker could be united in their mutual hatred.

Lex really, REALLY hates Superman, and Joker really, REALLY hates Batman. Their antipathy binds them together.

>>91935033
Joker does kinda have a point, the promise that superman represents falls apart as soon as he enforces his own moral order.

Then he just becomes the thing he fights and humanity loses it's savior and gains a tyrant.

>>91935548
Wouldn't Ras not like Lex since he runs one of those big mega corps that's ruining the planet?

>>91931408
They should only ever team up briefly, like once every five or ten years. It should be special because as damn near everyone else has mentioned, they have no reason to really be friends. Lex fucking hates the Joker.

>>91938017
>Joker really, REALLY hates Batman.

Does he really?
I always figured he loved Batman because he humors him and proves the absurdity of ethics over natural law.

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>>91933689

>>91931408
because it doesn't make sense. Penguin is a much better team up for Luthor

>>91931521
That's the problem with villain books. What would the plot be? What would they even do? I can't imagine it being very focused. You can't have them succeed at their main goals, because obviously, you just can't have them kill Batman/Superman/whoever. You'd pretty much have to go with the 'villain takes on another villain', cliche eventually.

As much as I would love to see something like this, or a Black Manta book, it could never work as an on-going. It'd have to be a mini, like Villains United or Rogues Revenge.

>>91934471
That was actually a great moment. There was also the first World's Finest movie. I actually really like the Lex Luthor/Joker team-up. They compliment each other about as well as Batman and Superman do. The problem is, you couldn't really have them as the protagonists except in the most special of circumstances.

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>>91938019

Yeah but if you kill him he dies.

>>91932765

>have shared goals and values in many ways
>can trust each other in terrible situations; have a productive working relationship
>no shortage of material for mutually interesting conversation

If this isn't friend material, then what is?

By comparison, Lex and Joker would be oil and water. Their ways of viewing the world and approaching problems are incompatible in more ways than not. They actually have literally no reason to be allies other than mutual enemies.

>>91931614
This was a thing?
I remember during the heyday of CCGs and how they made one out of EVERYTHING. Doomtrooper, rage, jyhad, kult, X-files, etc.

But I was never aware of this one.

Was it any good or was it an unbalanced,slow playing piece of crap?

>>91934552
Truly best Bros

>>91931408
Batman is a billionaire that spends most of his time wreaking terror in inhuman abominations.
Luthor should buy him a coke.

>>91938548
Joker's always been more about the art and show of it.
Lex is a more practical business minded person.

>>91935398
Read the issue. Bruce wasn't throwing money around and Clark wasnt having any of that, so they shared the room

Clark also did it to protect Lois's honor

>>91935398
The only thing weird about this picture is that Clark is wearing his glasses in the bed

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>>91931614

>>91935429
Batman keeps his secret identity very tightly guarded most of the time; to most of the League he's just "Batman", but to Superman (and Wonder Woman usually) he's just "Bruce" in a friendly first-name basis way.
Meanwhile, Diana calls Superman "Kal" after the name then alien culture he descends from gave him, but Bruce addresses him as "Clark" because he recognizes that Superman spent his ENTIRE LIFE growing up on Earth.

They're on a first-name basis when all the world knows them by pseudonyms and public facades that they throw up in front of themselves.

>>91935521
That's not precisely true.
Clark doesn't physically need sleep because he doesn't get tired, but he needs it psychologically the same way we do, to keep his brain functioning in a way that keeps him sane and stable.

>>91940320
Kinda like the bad guy in Irredemable?

>>91938017
Joker doesn't precisely hate Batman, especially not the way Luthor hates Supes. The Joker has had NUMEROUS occasions where he could just murder Batman outright and he does not for example.

It's more that both are obsessed with their respective nemeses, but while Lex's obsession is clearly channeled into a very nearly pathological hatred, Joker's obsession is just plain old obsession, and while he does try to kill Batman it's not his overriding life goal so much as it is to troll him constantly.

>>91940344
I dunno, never read it.
It's more that though he's very smart, his actual brain isn't enhanced and it's chemistry and methods of organizing itself still functions identically to ours; he NEEDS a few hours of sleep every night to allow his subconscious to do the shit it needs to do to keep him lucid and rational.

There was an arc where Bats and Supra switched powers and Batman started loosing it because unlike Clark he wasn't aware of this limitation because it's something Clark doesn't actually think about very often since he slowly adjusted to his gradually growing powers over a period of many years rather then got them all at once like Bruce suddenly did.

>>91940260
*pepsi

>>91940388
That's exactly Max Damage's weakness to his powerset. The longer he goes without sleep, the stronger and tougher he gets.

In theory, the comic states that there's no upper limit to how strong he could become. In practice, after the fourth or fifth day he starts becoming paranoid, nervous, and needs to chug down pills just so that he doesn't fall asleep on the spot. Then every time he sleeps his powers reset.

>>91940460
That is one weird superpower, but sure.
And Superman's need for sleep isn't that great a weaknesses because the ONLY amount of sleep he needs is to allow his mind to function normally, and as soon as that process is done he can wake right up since he doesn't actually require the physical aspect of rest beyond that.

Bad guys are usually dicks and don't work well with others. A team up between them usually ends up in pissing contests. Imagine the shitshow that would be Lex and Eobard Thawne trying to prove who is smarter because one criticized the others ULTIMATE LIFE RUINING PLAN.

>>91935784
>closer to batman
That would actually be a hell of a story. And would make for a compelling dynamic.

>universe with an older batman and lex
>have been friends since they were kids
>lex knows about batman
>prettyboy in blue tights shows up
>bruce and lex are both very concerned about a superpowered alien running around
>start taking steps to kill superman in case he gets out of control
>bruce starts dealing with superman more and more
>realize they have a lot in common and become bros
>jealous lex gets dark because the alien he hates stole his best friend away from him
>unveils the secret weapon he and bruce were building
>its metallo
>crazy fights

>>91940277
>Clark is wearing his glasses in the bed

>Artist who is not talented enough to otherwise differentiate between Bat's secret identity and Clark's everyday appearance.

>>91931408
That episode(s) of the Justice League when Lex is dying and gets everyone to help him, including Joker, who fucks around shows exactly how well they pair.

Then again JL Lex seems heavily nerfed but so do all of the JL AU characters.

>>91938062

That's Alexander Luthor though, Lex actually takes Joker into consideration in these things

>>91938172

make it like Secret Six or the Black Ring saga

>>91938172
Thunderbolts, Secret Six and Suicide Squad show that there is a market for villain books.

>>91941716
Just Squad. The last iterations of Thunderbolts and Secret Sex were doing cancellation numbers.

>>91938045
Movie Ras =/= Comic Ras

>>91942669
Their goals are still the same, restoring the planet back to what it was when he was a kid..

>>91942926
No it isn't, that is movie Ras goal

>>91935033
"I love that word."
"Which one?"
"Might."

Fucking great.

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They're work friends, which given how insane they are is pretty good for them.

>>91943228
Man I wish this anti-trinity arc had gone further. I love that Joker design too. And Luthor with fucking infinity gem fists Jesus.

>>91940356
He needs to kill Batman RIGHT. It has to be funny. Joker's an artist.

>>91943228
>Cheetah brings up the fact someone's a murderer
>Joker makes a joke
>Lex glosses over all that and focuses on the fact they need members and the irony of them judging character
I'm honestly impressed how well this works given these three aren't really that close
>Dwayne McDuffie - writer
Of course, only the master himself.

What I especially love is how they perfectly parallel/contrast the actual trinity.
Diana would also be reluctant to let someone of scrupulous character into the league. Batman would make the opposite of a joke and run down their many crimes and flaws. Superman would do as Lex does and point out being excluding and judging members only from their worst isn't wise.
All we need now is for Sinestro to walk in and say something arrogant while Prof Zoom says all he cares about is hurting as many innocents to hurt Barry

>>91943228
And then Cheetah kills light when she sees him. This cheetah design is pretty goat, I dont like the current one wheres shes an actual bipedal cheetah

>>91941311
>Lex actually takes Joker into consideration in these things

Indeed. I think the reason Joker doesn't show up in some Luthor-led villain team-ups isn't because Lex didn't ask him. It's just because Joker wasn't interested when Lex asked him.

>>91932765
I think they met as kids
>the Wayne car broke down in front of the Clark's farm and they played Baseball

>>91943704

Since Superman: Secret Origin is canon again i guess that makes the story where Jor-El met Thomas Wayne canon as well, because it was from that time period. Jor-El decided Earth would be a good planet for Kal after meeting Thomas and asked Thomas to take care of his alien child.

>>91935398
So what you're saying is, despite all the ways they could've avoided this, they both wanted to sleep together?

>>91940277
>>91940828
>Clark
>Caressly taking the risk of taking them off in front of a stranger
For all he knows Bruce is the biggest Superman fanboy there is, and he would recognize him in a second.

>>91943634
Yeah because Lex knows you at least ASK or Joker gets insulted, and makes it his job to ruin your plan out of spite.

>>91944483
Sounds like teenager drama
>Hey bro, I'm having something at my house with the members of the chess club. Won't be your thing but you can come if you want
>Thanks dude, I'll pass

Spares you a lot of grief

>>91938107
How the hell do you figure that?

>>91932765
They fucked after that right?

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>>91940208
The game has vast amount of variety of deck types.
GLEE (Green Lantern/Emerald Enemies): Stall/lock your opponent till turn 9 for Parallax
Fantastic 4/Marvel Knights: 2 drop Mr. Fantastic searches for equipments and double stack on MK chars
Faces of Evil (Thunderbolts/Masters of Evil): weenie swarm deck
Good Guys (JLA/JLI): 1 drop searches for 2 drop (Blue Beetle & Booster), while 3 drop searches for 4th (Hawkgirl & Hawkman). With game winning turn 5 beatdown with either Steel or Black Canary
Anti-Green Lantern: recruit AGL (army card so you can have multiples) from the graveyard with Felix Faust and win by turn 3 or 4 the earliest.

The game plays as fast as MtG. And each set pertains to a few teams, with each team usually having 2-3 mechanics to work with.

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>>91943228
That joker design

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>>91946746
besides extended art cards. VS System really went above and beyond with foil rares.

Side note: every card in the set can come in a foil version, from uncommons to commons. So Anyone can play with a completely foiled out deck.

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>>91931408
I honestly don't know why Lex would want to associate with any villain desu.

I recall that one scene in McDuffie's JLA run where Luthor asked if they could avoid the old villains can't get along cliche..... since when the fuck would Lex consider himself a supervillain?

>>91948484
>since when the fuck would Lex consider himself a supervillain?
Some versions of him are baldfaced about his sociopath tendencies. Either way, to digest it just imagine it's like the President angle, it's a position he takes just to get his way and people following or fold to him. He doesn't really want or need it.

>>91948484
I could see Luthor working with some of the Rogue's Gallery.

The Penguin springs to mind, Riddler and Mr Freeze are a bit of a stretch. Depending on the story, all these characters could have complex enough motivations to work with Lex and Lex could see them as means to an end enough to indulge them for a time. It does seem like they would be working for a common goal and the fact they share JLA cofounders as enemies would have to be secondary for the story to have any legs.

>>91948484
Well....he IS a supervillain.

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>>91943228
Have the three of them ever teamed up outside of that arc, and the episode in pic related?

>>91931408
Why would lex work with a crazy clown who will likely betray him?

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>>91951654
If they have mutual goals.

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Lex has no reason to give a shit about the Joker while Batman and Superman are natural allies.

It's like how the Flash rogues don't team up with the Reverse Flashes. Some people are just too crazy.

>>91941716
Honestly I don't know if any of those are really villain books. Most of them tend to turn good throughout the runs.

>>91936841
>They both usually call him Clark

Diana calling him Kal is actually a pretty common thing in a bunch of different continuities.

>>91935946
Maybe that's not it, maybe it's because, as the avatar or whatever of "Truth", his birth name just always comes first before his adopted name to her.

>>91947069

I still have my decks awesome game, the mechanics went a little retard through the end, but it was really fun (and I liked the system, really easy to learn)

>>91938172
Batman the Brave and the Bold did it perfectly with its Joker centric episode. You could do the same thing even in more serious takes of batman.

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>>91931408
What's Agent 47 doing there next to the Joker?

>>91931408
It's like Philemon and nyarlohotep teaming up

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>>91953190
>names are for friends so I don't need one

>>91931408

What? They're not best friends but they are definitely something close to that. Even in Infinite Crisis, Luthor had a butt buddy moment with Joker at the very end. They've worked together before but when you team up against the world's finest, you're really not improving your chances.

>>91938019

Joker's playing the long con in a philosophical sense for sure

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they don't really like each other

>>91952136
I've never seen her refer to a married woman by her maiden name. It's just dumb bullshit about her not getting that it's actually part of him rather than a fake identity.

The Batman and Superman, they each represent the other's ideals. Batman would love to see the world the way Superman sees it, and his goody-two shoes boy scout image appeals to someone who's lived in darkness for so long. To Bruce, Superman is the ultimate force of good.

Meanwhile, Batman, along with Lois, represents everything that Superman loves and admires about the human race. Even though there are assholes like Luthor around, Bruce and Lois embody the inherent good and potential of humanity, the courage to stand up for what's right despite being squishy humans, to fight against insurmountable odds for what they believe in. In a sense, it's somewhat humbling to be in their presence. Despite being Superman, there are some humans that he just can't compare to in certain ways.

>>91940828
Nah. The artist actually gives Clark a very pronounced chin. Bruce actually kind of recognizes that Clark is Superman because of that chin.

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>>91954505

WW seeing Superman as a godly hero is something that was established way back in the 80's by Perez and Byrne.

>>91943228
>"But back to Captain Marvel. Why are you--Why is EVERYONE defending him?!"
>"We like him. He's sunny."

>>91943634
It wouldn't fly with modern versions of the characters anyway. Joker doesn't play nice with others like he used to. Before, he'd sometimes team up with other villains, but nowadays, literally no one trusts him. He's too much of a wild card, too unpredictable. The man is just as likely to kill you on a whim as he is to pull some cruel scheme on the Bat. No one in their right mind would want to work with modern Joker.

>>91955074
On top of that, there's no real means of gaining any sort of leverage on modern Joker. He barely gives a shit about his own life as it is so you can't threaten his life. As far as anyone knows, there's nothing he particularly values so you can't blackmail him.

About the only things he cares about are having a laugh and the Batman.

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>>91935033
>>91938019

>>91931408
>Charles Manson and Trump have never done business.
What's wrong with their writers?

Don't /pol/ me bro, I voted trump, it was just an apt coparison.

>>91946188
I don't think you understand the destructive power of a superwad. You don't just go fucking clark without a deathwish.

I assume bats has the K rock and slips it in supes booty "against his will".

I like to think that Batman built a custom red sun lamp and gave it to Superman as an awkward birthday present so he could use it with whoever his lover is at the time.

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>>91953190
What are you talking about? That guy beside that clown is clearly Gregor Strasser!

>>91951760
Oh, they have the same color scheme! That's why they can't team up.

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They're not so much alike. The common denominator is their hatred of their nemesis.

Lex actually has more in common with R'as.

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>>91960458

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>>91960515

>>91960515
This kind of interaction is great though. I'd love a mini series about Lex and Joker teaming up and shitting on each other the whole time.

>>91931408
How do they seem at all like the kind of people that would be friends?

>>91943454
they couldn't take my money fast enough

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>>91935033
>>91938019
Hey, I don't suppose if anyone knows, has that Mortal Konflict vs. DC or Murderous Kombat vs. DC or whatever that vidyagame is called touched on this? It so conveniently has all the same subjects there!!