So... Was he always been a Hydra agent? Even in 616 before

>>91814741
Depends which timeline you're looking at.

Think the Biff timeline from Back to the Future.

In the 616 timeline, or Biff timeline for the sake of argument, he was never Hydra.

But in the correct timeline, base timeline if you will, he was.

>>91814741
No. It's an altered reality created by the cosmic cube.

>>91814741
no, he didn't have any excuse for being a villain in Time Runs Out

It's kinda ambiguous at this point.

There's evidence of Kobik rewriting reality to make Steve a Hydra agent.

There's evidence of it all being false memories within Steve.

Then there's this new theory that there existed an original universe where Steve being Hydra was status quo and the Allies used a Cosmic Cube to rewrite reality into the 616 we know today.

We just won't know until the end of Secret Empire.

>>91814741
The change happened when he got young again. From HyrdaCap's view it was WW2 then the world got cosmic cubed into 616.

>>91814806
I see, but what was the point of the cube changing his memories if he was always hydra?

>>91814850
Easy, Captain America never came back in Captain America Reborn.

Or alternately, Captain America never came back from the dead after Vol 3 ended back in 2001 and everything from John Rey Neiber's series onwards was a fake Cap.

>>91815093
It didn't. The cube was used first to rewrite history so that the Allied powers won WWII, since the users believes Captain America to be on their side, in the new timeline Cap as a good guy.

Kobik simply folded the Cap from the Hydra timeline into the current timline.

>>91814806
You got it backwards. Biff timeline is the current one where Kobik changed the past so that the Allies used a cosmic cube to win the war leading to a present identical to the normal timeline except with Steve as a secret Hydra agent with his memories altered

>>91815093
From HydraCap's POV, there was a prophecy that said Kobik would free him from the fake 616 world and restore his true memories.

>>91814741
No. Here's the order of events:
>616: the Marvel Universe
Red Skull convinces Kobik that Hydra is noble and good and they're the true heroes of the world, to get her to turn Steve into a Hydra Agent. Kobik then turns 616 into Hydra-Earth
>616-H: The Hydra Universe
In this universe, Steve was recruited into Hydra as a child and was a Hydra double-agent during WWII. At the end of WWII, the Allies use a cosmic cube to alter reality so they'd win the war. By using the cosmic cube, they turn the Hydra Universe into the Marvel Universe
>616-2: The Marvel Universe (Again)
Kobik "restores" Captain Hydra from The Hydra Universe in place of 616 Cap. Steve now believes that 616 is the fake universe created through reality warping instead of the other way around, because from his perspective, it was the Allies' cosmic cube that created 616.

616 is the original universe. It was then turned into the Hydra Universe and then turned right back to the Marvel Universe, but Hydra Universe Steve replaced Marvel Universe Steve. Now Hydra Universe Steve is trying to replace 616 with his universe because from his perspective, that's the REAL universe and 616 is the fake. We know that it's the other way around, but he doesn't.

>>91814968
>It's kinda ambiguous at this point.
Not really. Kobik explicitly states that she altered history and created the Hydra timeline. It's not false memories. It's REAL memories. It's just that it's real memories from a timeline that Kobik created and in that timeline, things were reset back to 616 at the end of WWII with the only two people from that Kobik-created timeline that still remember it are Elisa and Steve.

>>91815315
Bingo. She says it to Bucky when she saves him from Zemo killing him in the past in Thunderbolts

>>91814741
The cosmic cube altered reality so that he always was, yes. It's not just brainwashing.

But technically before reality/history was altered he wasn't.

So yes and no.

Really, any "tension" that the hydra timeline being the right one that this event could have had was thrown down the toilet the moment Kobik tried to convince Bucky to join Hydra in Hydraworld so her fanfic universe wouldn´t be a walking paradox.

>>91814741
He's never been Hydra. He's had his memories altered so he believes in an elaborate lie.

>>91814741
Are we gonna get faggots asking this question everyday now?

Am I being baited?

File: 1492706066909.jpg (18KB, 187x98px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 187x98px

>>91815654
...Or Hydromed?

>>91815604
>He's had his memories altered
Not really. It's more like 616 Steve was replaced with an alternate universe Steve. Those are real memories, not altered memories. They're just real memories from a fake timeline.

>>91815542
Paradox? How would Bucky mess up here Hydra universe?

I'm not coming at you, I'm just curious.

>>91815962
so wheres real steve?

Hydra Cap has been something i need to read ill start today lol

>>91816017
Sorry ofr taking so long.

In the previous to last issue of Thunderbolt, Kobik made Bucky relive his last moments in the Hydra universe so he could survive and still be alive in the current timeline. Since he didn´t agree, Kobik threw a Tantrum because she needed him to do that to "fix" everything.

So the paradox thingy: she likes Bucky, so she doesn´t want him to have been dead, but doesn´t want to force him neither.

>>91816351
Steve was originally Hydra and the Nazis would have won the war. The allies used a cosmic cube to win the war and that made caps normal origin. Now cap has been shifted to the original

>>91816810
Funny; it mirrors our theft and use of propaganda. Germany created it as we know it, we took it created Cap and then an entire industry of advertising over the course of decades. now its eating us alive.

>>91816351
Real Steve was replaced by Hydra Cap via Kobik's reality warping. Only Kobik can undo it, but she was shattered into 8 pieces. Steve has 7 of the pieces and Ultron has the 8th piece.

>>91816810
Not quite. See: >>91815267

Hydra Cap isn't the "original" because 616 was still the original timeline before Kobik fucked with it.

>>91817050
Why did they leave the confirmation of Kobik having altered the timeline in a book as seemingly irrelevant as thunderbolts.