>Batman once said "Barry allen is the kind of man that

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>>91802605
It kind of ruins Batman if he KNOWS he needs a therapist.
Just saying.
He shouldn't be aware that his methods are terrible, ineffective, angry-child garbage.

>>91802691

Batman doesn't need a therapist. Being Batman is healthy for him. He has friends and saves the world.

>>91802691

I disagree. Batman is fundamentally different from his villains.

Also the whole "Gotham actually gets worse because of Batman" is basically a DC editorial meme. His methods are unquestionably effective, it's just comic book shenanigans that keep the city from becoming a clean, safe place.

>>91802605
Not necessarily. He might just wish he was a happy, optimistic man with hope in his heart.

>>91802605
Nice guy. Is loved by his city for more or less being himself. Has tons of friends who like to hang out with him. Has a love life that doesn't do things that piss him off all the time. His sidekicks don't grow up to resent him.

Barry is the ultimate lawfag.

He's a man who's honest, forthcoming, who holds true to his morals, who believes in the law and that truth and justice will always win.

Batman has the same basic set of morals; conservative and believes in the word of law. But whereas Barry is incorruptible, Batman is a cynic. He lies and schemes in the darkness. He knows that despite his belief in the law, he needs to often skirt it for the greater good, or "grease the wheels of justice".

Barry believes that people are basically good, and evil is begotten by evil.

Batman thinks people are selfish and complex and thus can't be trusted. He thinks some people are just evil and beyond help, and some are just animals that should be locked away forever.

tl;dr Batman and Barry's basic set of principles are the same, but Batman has to filter them through his cynicism and lack of faith in the human race.

>>91802727
>Being Batman is healthy for him
He's admitted that he refuses to let his parents death go otherwise he won't have a reason to be Batman. That isn't healthy thinking.

>>91802855

Why are Comic fans basically revolting over Barry Allen being the flash now and calling for Wally West to retake the mantle?

>>91802735
The fact that there is a lazarus pit underneath gotham driving everybody insane doesn't help.

>>91802605
I think Batman considers himself to be effective, but he can't deny that he's still hurting in a way he doesn't see in Barry.

I think he's saying that, if his parents had lived, he hopes he would've been a kind person doing his best to help the world, and that he would've done that without the darkness that comes with being Batman.

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>>91802959

people are mad at DC pushing Barry to the detriment of the rest of the Flash Family.

>>91802959
Because a lot of folks grew up with Wally.

Also a lot of people confuse being "good" with not having a personality. So with Barry being such an upstanding citizen, some people prefer the more flawed Wally.

And some also believe that Barry works better as a fallen angel, an ideal for Wally to strive towards. I can't say I necessarily disagree with that, but I've also really enjoyed Barry's modern stories.

>>91803010

Doesn't Wally have a family and two kids now though? I mean I get that most of the current DC readers grew up with Wally as the Flash, but wasn't it time for a change?

How is Wally better than Barry?

>>91803046
He HAD a family and two kids. Flashpoint threw that out.

>>91803025

Barry also didn't get good stories for like the first 5 years he was back.

>>91803046

They can co-exist was the point I was trying to make.

Wally's more interesting because Barry is from the silver age when most heroes were generic and had cookie cutter bland personalities. Then he died. Wally's stuff was all post-Watchmen/DKR and comics writing changed and he had personality changes and growth and stuff.

>>91803046

The problem with your question is that Johns didn't give an answer when people asked him the same thing, except with the names switched around.

The answer is that he was in his 30s and valued his personal nostalgia.

Now he has let the genie out of the bottle and all of the people in their 30s want Wally back for the same reason.

>>91803085

Flashpoint was such a horrible story. Why was it Fucking allowed to happen!?

>>91802605
It means that Johns is a wanker.

>>91802855
what about the laws of physics

>>91803112
>>91803119

Seems to be a lot of hate for Johns too. Didn't Teen Titans go to shit after he left?

The kind of man who would rape the Joker

>>91802959
Barry has never had an above average comic.

>>91803046
Ahaha. Dude. Please.

DC killed Wally and his family without so much as an acknowledgement he ever existed. They only just now, after 6 years, decided to go "woops we fucked up on that sorry."

and they killed him because he was more popular than Barry and didn't want him taking the spotlight or attention away from Barry.

So that's why Wallyfags tend to be pissy about Barry.

>>91803046
Changing from Wally to Barry isn't a change. It's a 30 year step backwards.

They just fucked up handing the baton from Wally to Bart, as it should've been. Whereas Barry's departure is one of the greatest moments in DC's history, Wally's departure is Barry saving the day. It was a spit in the face.

oh and like 80% of Barry's stuff that gets into other media is actually from Wally's comics

>>91802959
20-30 year old comic book fans with nostalgia for Wally. Barry also had about a good as you can get death and passing of the mantle in comic books.

>>91803301
As the face of DC editorial most criticism of DC editorial is directed at him.

>>91802855
Yeah, that's why he went back in time to save his mother and wiped out an entire universe in the process. Such an upstanding and moral man

>>91802860
this is just shitty writing, though.

Batman isn't driven because CRAWLING IN MY SKIN THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEAL, he's driven because he's seen how devastating crime can be because he experienced it, so he wants to try to keep that from happening to anyone else again. He can't succeed, but he has to try.

>>91803829
Stopping Thawne from changing the timestream actually should be the right thing to do.

The "timeboom" shit was just contrived for that particular story and wasn't supposed to lead into a reboot like it did.

>>91803010

This isn't true of anyone but Wallyfags.

And sure Wallyfags exist. But they don't fucking buy books, especially not the Flash.

>>91803102
>Barry is from the silver age when most heroes were generic and had cookie cutter bland personalities.

Thanks for proving you don't read comics.

>>91804158
People who like Jay, Max, and Bart are also mad about what Flash Rebirth did.

>>91802772

This.

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>>91804185

there's a reason almost all of those guys either faded away or got replaced by characters with personalities

>>91804244
Guy Gardner is from the Silver Age.

>>91804244
Kilowog is the only one in that picture with a real personality

>>91804288
You might not like Gardner but if there's one thing he has it's abundant personality.

>>91802735
>His methods are unquestionably effective
They are demonstrably the opposite.

>>91802727
Anon, you realize Batman/Bruce Wayne is legally insane. He suffers from a split personality, which manifests when he dons a bat fetish costume and beats people up for "justice."

I don't understand the attraction to Batman as an adult because all I see is some crazy nutter dressed in a bat body condom needing to be sectioned to Arkham Asylum, with the rest of his villains gallery.

>>91804417
You have some strange ideas

>>91804244

Every character but Kyle and Sornik there is from the Silver Age

>>91802605
Barry Allen is a genuinely kind, loving man. He was capable of surpassing the grief of losing the love of his life to a homicidal stalker from the future. He devoted himself to truth and justice even before the speed in his choice of Forensic Science as a career. He taught Wally to be a good hero and a good person. He has an extensive, cataloged collection of old comics and he lets you read them, even the rare expensive ones.

>>91804343
he's just a more obnoxious Hal, that's not a personality

>>91804497
He's also a deadbeat dad.

>>91803887
>The "timeboom" shit was just contrived for that particular story

But Barry's always had bad side effects when he tries to time travel on his own power, that's why he invented the cosmic treadmill.

So why the fuck didn't he use the cosmic treadmill?

>>91804594
Treadmill got blown up by Zolomon last I remember. And he needs Ira to create it and DC forgot about Ira? who knows.

>>91802605
What he meant is that thanks to The Flash tv the amount of meme Flash fans has quickly grown to nearly eclipse the number of meme Batman fans.

>>91804638
Which is sad because CW Barry is perhaps the most selfish and unheroic version of the character in existence. He is a fucking asshole creep who is only accepted because he's the main character.

>>91803883
>this is just shitty writing, though.
/co/ has this weird blind spot where they blame characters for bad writing.

>>91802855
>He thinks some people are just evil and beyond help, and some are just animals that should be locked away forever.
Everything else sounds good, but that line. If that was true, the Joker would be at the top of that list, obviously. Ask Jason where that went?

>>91802959
Because bringing Barry back was RUNNING BACKWARDS, and doing so in a way that kinda of wrecked Wally's 20 years as the Flash by dumping him into the background then erasing him. So instead of Barry being the saintly inspiration for his successor, he's the guy who made his successor redundant.

Also, bringing Barry back as the Flash was done in such way that his personal history was rewritten such that his parents (who had previously lived into Barry's adulthood and were still around for the murder trial that was his final storyline) were now the core of a murder investigation where Barry's father was in prison for killing his mother. In effect, Barry Allen had his origin substituted for something more Batmanish when it was unnecessary to do so.

>>91803301
Oh, no sir. His Teen Titans was also shit. It was just shit that sold reasonably well.

>>91804549
Dads who actually die aren't deadbeat, they're just dead.

>>91804618
Ira died and became a ghost, and then was replaced by Flashpoint with some drunken childbeater.

>>91804777
Dads who come back to life and then forget about your existence are deadbeat.

You can't give me the "he was dead!" excuse when he could've just hopped to the future to be with his kids the same way he went to the future in the first place.

Then again Wally doesn't remember his kids, either. Maybe being a terrible parent is inherent in The Flash. Jay dodged it by not having any!

>>91804796
Yeah, so for Flashpoint there was no treadmill and the dude who knew how to build it was dead.

>>91804819
Wally's children have actually been erased and are not guaranteed to exist in this timeline ever.

Barry's children existed and had children and he knows this because Bart was right there proving it.

>>91804849
Yeah but Wally remembered his non-existent life with Linda. Just shows his priority. Being able to make clothes out of magic? Remembered. His own children? Who are they again?

They're both shits.

>>91802855
>He thinks some people are just evil and beyond help
u wot m8

>>91803883
It amazes me that he was able to work past his parents deaths in a SCHUMACHER movie to find a new resolve to be Batman. It can be done, and it doesn't have to be the end of the character.

>>91804906
The universe is repairing itself by making people forgot differences between the new and old universes,presumably starting with the "most different" things. The kids can't even exist without a relationship that doesn't exist in the new universe so they are very far off from that one, but the relationship between him and Linda could exist since she exists and could potentially fall in love with him so it disappears more slowly.

Magic clothes might be a constant.

>>91805270
Nah man he had to learn how to do magic clothes.

>>91802605
He want to go fast.

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>Batman wishes he was more like Barry
>Batman wants to be second biggest jobber in the DC Universe
>Batman wants to go back in time and save his parents
>Batman wants to be responsible for the damage to the timestream
>Batman wants Joker to be more like Eobard "every bad day you ever had" Thawne
>Batman wants TKJ to happen every day

Batman is an idiot.

>>91802959
Bringing Barry back is regression. Before The Flash Rebirth, Wally fans would be disinterested in Barry at worst. Warner suits messed with the Flash franchise by encouraging The Flash to be Barry in both comics and media, as part of the synergy movement. That's also why Cyborg became such a big part of the League.

It's like if you brought back the OG X-Men and replaced all the characters added to the franchise since.

>>91802991
>I think he's saying that, if his parents had lived, he hopes he would've been a kind person doing his best to help the world, and that he would've done that without the darkness that comes with being Batman.
Reminds me of this one story where Batman stops Joe Chill from killing the Waynes in an alternate universe, but the Bruce Wayne of that world ends up becoming Batman anyway because he was inspired by the man that saved his parents.

>>91804417
>t. Hugo Strange

>>91806728
>Warner suits
I hadn't heard about this. AFAIK Barry was brought back in Rebirth (Flash Rebirth, not the recent event) and Cyborg brought to the fore with the new52, long before the development of the movies and other media.

>>91806450
(you)

Batman is a hero born from anger and a sense of justice. Flash is a hero born from just trying to be good guy and making the best with what life dealt to him.

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>>91806450
>Eobard is every anti-Barry Wallyfag just running from computer to computer.

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>>91807048
Was he a less edgy Batman?

Also, posting best alternate Batman origin commentary.

>>91807529
>Was he a less edgy Batman?
It's Detective Comics 500, you should check it out.

>>91806450
This

>>91802605
A cop who believes in the law and is hopeful in near all things.

>>91802605
It means the writer is a jackass, it's poochie all over again. Just ignore it.

>>91802860
But that is bullshit.

>>91802959
No one had a problem with that, thing is that Johns had Jay saying Barry Allen made me the flash, and a really shitty story about Barry fucking up real hard so he can be the only flash, no one had any problem with multiple flashes.

>>91802605
>What did he mean by this?

What did he mean by this? Johns was just trying to make Barry look as cool and great as possible. Having Batman suck his dick is the best way to get normies behind Barry. They had spent a year and a half doing their damndest to build up readership for Barry (in a way Wally and Bart certainly never got) and making cool new Batman his sidekick in Flashpoint and making the real Batman idolize him in the epilogue is how to do it.

Bruce's point doesn't even make sense. He wanted to be like Barry if his parents hadn't been murdered? One of Barry's parents was murdered! You're the same fucking character now, a superhero driven to vigilante justice from the trauma of losing a parent. Barry's villains are just less awful as people so he gets to be cheerier.

>>91803797
No, he is the chief creative, the link between DC and Warner, and the guy behind Flashpoint. One of the 2 architects of new52, the guy that put cyborg on the league in both comics and cartoons, the guy that is all about legacy as long as it's the legacy he wants and that protects his stories and his input over any other writer, Johns doesn't love DC, he loves the DC he wrote and the characters he liked as a kid.

>>91802959
I'm not, Barry's my favourite Flash.

>>91804417

He is still a better character and more popular than your favorite character, even if that really really triggers you bathater

>>91804497
Kek do you understand that before Johns, his mother wasn't dead right? Op's deal was wrote by a dumbass that doesn't understand batman.

>>91804849
>Barry's children existed and had children and he knows this because Bart was right there proving it.

Nu52 Bart is just as nonexistent as Wally's kids. He was replaced by an unrelated character who used "Bart Allen" as a psuedonym.

>>91808487
By 'the love of his life' I meant Iris, fool.

Iris was murdered and he got over it. Then because of timetravel handwavery, she got to come back to life and Barry kinda forgot about his near second wife who went insane.

>>91802959
Barry's nice and all but his most famous story up until Johns brought him back was when he died.

>>91802959
Becuase nostalgia fags are fucking cancer.

>>91808523
I know, and I also know it's irrelevant, she came back and he was ready to marry someone else before he killed reverse flash. The idea Bruce would admire someone like Barry is retarded. He could have some respect, but let's not full ourselves, Alan Scott or doc minister are way closer to what Bruce would had been without the killing of his parents. Johns doesn't know shit about batman.

>>91808532
The trial was pretty famous, well infamous actually, decompressed storytelling at its finest.

>>91804417
The attraction comes from Batman being a child's revenge fantasy made true. It appeals to everyone, because everyone still have one of these wounds that refuse to heal and that can only be thought as pure injustice.
It is insanity to bring that kind of anger into adulthood, but Batman can and does, and it feels good to watch him exert vengeance.

>>91808700
Why are you answering to him seriously? He is a batman haters.

Story idea: Bruce becomes aware that is only because of editor mandate that Gotham city stays as crime-ridden as it is. So batman takes his fight to the only place that matters- the editors office.

>>91808716
Who cares what he is?

>>91802605
Barry isnt constantly suffering

bruce may or may not be emotionally stable, but he is absolutely not happy

>>91808852
That he won't care about what you say, he ask why batman hasn't shot the joker 3 times a day.

>>91809068
And I'm not talking to him. Don't you understand the point of anonymity here?

>>91802605

I think it applies to pre Johns Barry. Look at his relationship to Wally and Iris. He's this loving husband with a healthy relationship with Iris. Bruce, he's got Talia. Dick Grayson is basically Bruce's son, but has a constant need for approval. Bruce was a crap dad. Barry, by comparison, empowered Wally to step up and become his own person.

It all comes to Bruce constantly looking back, worrying about what he can't change. Its why Johns Barry such shit. Its not the silver age character. That guy would never change time.

>>91802959
Because Barry's race has been run. Flash is supposed to be a legacy position. Jay was flash long before Barry was, and Wally was flash for decades after Barry died. Add to that DC has failed to tell one legitimately great Flash story since they brought Barry back and its understandable that fans want to move forward.

>>91803025
But modern Barry isn't good. The original Barry was boring. He was boring like your dad. A great guy who just did the right thing. And at the end of the day, what more was there. His greatest enemy was dead, killed by him. His Rogue more or less grew up. And he died perfectly.

>>91802855
That Barry can keep such upstanding spirit even after the incredibly insane shit Thwane constantly puts him through is a testament of his willpower and the hood in him. Flash's happy stable life is the product of titanic effort from his part to overcome tragedy again and again. No wonder he treats the more normal villains of his rogues gallery with decency. He can see most of them are just troubled men with needs or misguided motivation because he knows what a truly evil being is capable of.

>>91802855
Barry also believes in the death penalty.
Batman wishes he did.

>>91810996
He doesn't, but you don't know shit about batman either.

>>91804477
Kilowog is more of a Bronze Age character. He got introduced just after the Crisis happened.

>>91811802
Wally said he does.

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>>91811802

>That time Barry left his children in the future and forgot about them
>That time Barry caused Wally's children to not exist any more
>That time Barry almost ended the world

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>>91804702
>>>91803883
>>this is just shitty writing, though.
>/co/ has this weird blind spot where they blame characters for bad writing.

>This charecters written poorly
>"You should like the charecter anyway, its not thier fault."
This is the most retarted thinking I've ever heard.

Batman is criminally insane, from any standpoint. However the question should be "Is Batman better for the greater good?", not "is Batman good for Bruce Wayne?" and I believe the answers are yes and no, respectively.

>>91808455
Are you sure your old enough to post here?

>>91808421
Is water your favorite drink, too, anon?

>>91815319

Water is very refreshing. especially if it's nice and fresh and ice cold.

Water is Life MotherFucker!

Bruce has always liked to surround himself with people he believes are better than he is. Dick, Tim, Clark, Barry, etc.

>>91816233
Yeah man. I'm not saying water isn't essential or important. I am saying if water is your favorite drink then you're boring as fuck and literally have no taste, though.

>>91812155
Bruce doesn't wish he supported the death penalty you dummy.

>>91808558
Ironic you say that, given Barry returned because of nostalgia, kiddo.

>>91818054
The point is Bruce said he wishes he could've grown up to be like Barry. But Barry is someone who supports killing in dire circumstances and the death penalty.

The point isn't actually that Bruce wishes he supports the Death Penalty, it's mocking the idea that Bruce wanted to be like Barry. Of course he didn't, it was just Johns and DC editorial trying to make people like Barry more by having Batman sing his praises.

>>91816520
Barry isn't better than Bruce and halalf of his kids are great persons thanks to him, the other two are not supercriminals thanks to him.

>>91808558
Barry Allen is the ultimate nostalgia fan return trip. No one wanted him back and by god did the scant few nostalgiafags at DC force him back.

>>91818126
The point is Johns is a jackass. Stop taking everything in a comic as absolute truth.

>>91802605
Should have said superman

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>>91818153
Barry didn't want Barry back.

>>91818163
I'm agreeing with you that Johns' writing here is stupid and wrong you dipshit.

>>91818167
That's very different than what Johns wrote tho. And is not different of what Bruce says about people like Gordon

>>91818474
That was from Johns' run, too.