Finished this the other night. I enjoyed most of the show leading

https://youtu.be/53rCO8BsKwU

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>>91566882
Now go watch the movie.

Why the fuck do people say season 2 is the best when season 3 blew it the fuck out of the water in every possible way? Season 2 was mediocre at best. Season 1 was literal shit.

Korra seasons 1 and 3 were better than Avatar season 2. This isn't up for debate anymore, so don't bother replying if you're retarded.

If you reply, you prove me right.

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>>91569019
>Korra seasons 1 and 3 were better than Avatar season 2
I should just discard your opinion at that, but let me explain why you're wrong with that bait:

S01 Korra wasted a lot of time on pro-bending (which achieved nothing in the show) and romance on the first few episodes, and on the last episodes it completely missed with Amon's reveal. Him being a bloodbender not only made him a hypocrite, it made his story a complete mess. He literally has no reason to fight. And then the season closes with a deus ex machina, because why the fuck not.

"b-but ATLA made the same!"

It didn't. This was already discussed to death; Aang got his avatar state back the EXACT same way he lost it (a deus ex must be something not expected). The Energybending thing (lion turtle part) not only was talked about before in the show in 3 other episodes, it changes nothing of the outcome on the last battle.

S03 Korra was better than the other, but still suffer from major flaws. Let's be honest: villains NEVER had good motivation in ATLA or LoK, but Zaheer's "chaos will help somehow" takes the cake on stupidity. Worst part is how he escapes because of a set of coincidences. Other than that, the only issues with S03 are on the beginning, mostly on characterization. It is just weird how no one have a real reason to stick with Korra but they do it anyway. There is a problem with motivation; Asami was backstabbed twice by Korra and Mako, and still let them use her zeppelin. Mako fucks off from his job to go on an adventure with two ex-girlfriends for no reason. Korra herself doesn't have much reason to go. There are new airbenders; so what? RC is still broken and spirits are still fucking shit up.

You can say whatever you want about ATLA S01, but at least it was consistent, something LoK never was.

>>91568848
Yes OP. The movie is critically acclaimed and is a treasure for the Avatar community. After the movie, watch The Legend of Korra. Both are great!

>>91566882
I still have some criticisms, but there's so much the finale did well that it's almost easy to overlook them. Old Masters is my favourite of the four, if only for the Iroh/Zuko scene.

>>91569278
>Him being a bloodbender not only made him a hypocrite

That was the intention.

>it made his story a complete mess. He literally has no reason to fight.

Self hating bender.

He isn't supposed to be right.

>>91569019
It was better paced and didn't have lol breakdowns, lol sword master, lol I forgot to tell you my dad's evil plan and definitely no lol lion turtle

>>91571065
The biggest complain is that the Lionturtle thing was an ex machina, which is admittedly a bit true.

But I did find interesting that the Avatar (all incarnations), the bridge between humans and spirits, for once put the human argument so earnestly that the spirits could not say no to him. I felt like it was a neat appeal to humanity.

All the catharsis came from the Zuko/Azula and the Fire Nation Blimp fights, anyway.

>>91569278
Dude, why even reply. Anyone who thinks fucking Air is better than Earth is clearly brain damaged.

>>91569278
>S03 Korra was better than the other, but still suffer from major flaws. Let's be honest: villains NEVER had good motivation in ATLA or LoK, but Zaheer's "chaos will help somehow" takes the cake on stupidity.


Ozhai is no different from any other conqueror in history, the FN even had some inspirations from industrial Japan and mongols throw in it. How is it weird?

Also, Zahrer has a stupid motivation,but guess what: so did real life anarchists.

The guys LITERALLY did attempts of suicide attacks to every monarch in the beginning of the 20 century, thinking that somehow this would bring an anarchist utopia.

>>91571109
Fuck you, Sokka's master is my favorite episode.

I bet you're one of those people who always says the latest thing they've watched was the best thing they've ever seen

Rewatched all of the series back to back over the last couple of weeks.

Korra gets way too much hate, though ATLA is still better.

Korra book 2 in particular gets way too much hate, it reminds me of s02 of digimon in which it gets a HUGE amount of hate because of the shitty ending.

>>91571109
Break downs added to ATLA since it focused more on "adventure" and comedy

Sword master helped establish their only non-bender (better than asami) and helped the white lotus make more sense

Lion turtle isn't lol, just fuck off.

REAL LIFE bending rankings:

God tier:
Blood, Metal, specialized air(flight, compressed air for sharpness, etc)

High tier:
Lightning,lava, earth

Medium tier:
Fire, Air

Shit tier:
Water

I could accept ATLA being the "pinnacle of western animation" if the last season wasn't such absolute trash.

>>91571081
Not being right and not making sense are two different things. If he was just talking shit of benders because his daddy beat him up, i would understand. But instead Amon had a very developed idea of equality. I would say that his ideas were against bending, not benders, and then it turns out he just had daddy issues and wanted to fuck shit up.

>>91571212
>How is it weird
the fact that he wanted to burn the Earth nation for no particular reason. Perhaps it's just that we didn't really know him, even in the end.

>so did real life anarchists
Some people eat shit in real life. Does that mean a villain that eats shit is a good idea? Just saying that they could at least.. try to make sense.

>>91571488
Elder God tier:
Motherfucking Sand.

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>>91571522

is avatar only available in 480p? that's all i'm finding in the archives.

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>>91571642

>>91571676
Some guys on reddit made a 1080p remaster. There's also a 720p remaster out there too.

>>91571700
>Some guys on reddit made a 1080p remaster.

how does that work?

>>91571081
>He isn't supposed to be right.
Except he was right.

Benders have an unfair advantage over non benders. This is covered in the comics very well. Korra did it poorly.

>>91571676
There's a 720 DVDrip I think it's a DVDrip anyway on thepiratebay that's fantastic and reddit apparently has that upscaled to 1080.

>>91571738
Hell if I know but it looks good. https://www.reddit.com/r/RemasteringATLA/

The 720 is also good.

>>91571752
They've don't really have an unfair advantage, though.
It's been shown multiple times that if you put in effort to learn a combat skill, you can be on a perfectly equal footing with benders, even outclassing regular goons.

>>91571305
It's been 9 years and I still think the Avatar finale is some of the best television I've ever seen. I was hyped to hell and back for it and nothing disappointed me.

>>91571700
>>91571767
cheers. found a 720p collection that includes the movie and korra. grabbing that.

>>91571593
>But instead Amon had a very developed idea of equality. I would say that his ideas were against bending, not benders, and then it turns out he just had daddy issues and wanted to fuck shit up.

Amon is just a rich guy that happens to preach comunism. There are a lot of people like this.

>the fact that he wanted to burn the Earth nation for no particular reason. Perhaps it's just that we didn't really know him, even in the end.

Mongols did that.

It was a presentation of power, to stop possible revolts.

The mongols literally killed the ENTIRE city and destroyed the land to never be used in the future if you didn't bowed to them in the first meeting, which was quite common in the beginning.

>Some people eat shit in real life. Does that mean a villain that eats shit is a good idea?

This analogy....doesn't make sense at all. If he says that shit tastes good you have 2 options: he is the villain and you aren't supine to agree with him OR its just his opinion, and you can call him retarded.

>Just saying that they could at least.. try to make sense.

Anarchists doesn't make sense. What you want them is for them to not use anarchists that existed on 20-30, which I find a waste of opportunity,just because you didn't liked, it doesn't make it invalid.

>>91571808
This.

People act like martial arts on avatar works like real world martial arts, when in reality martial artists on ATLA and Korra are super human, even a lot of the mooks.

>>91572017
Off the top of my head, there's the Kyoshi Warriors, Sokka, Piandao, Ty Lee, Mai somehow Asami and, even though I don't recall him doing anything before getting airbending, Bumi, in lore, has done amazing things.

Martials VS Casters has no legitimate basis in Avatar.

>>91569019
Season 3 kind of overdid it with adventurous stuff and exposition and shiet, like, they realized they haven't shown anything about Fire Nation and its people and tried to shove in everything and tried to move plot forward and tried to move character arcs forward and do twists to them too, that in the end it felt like some things that needed to be said were left unsaid simply because they didn't have enough time, which lead to creation of comics. I thought it didn't work out as smoothly, but it worked out in the end, just not without problems.

Season 2 is just pure sex once Toph appears.

>>91571118
>All the catharsis came from the Zuko/Azula

Speaking of which, what the fuck happened with that shit in the comics?

Someone storytimed "Smoke and Shadow" a while ago and then that was the last i heard of anything. Did the Last Airbender comics get shitcanned in favor of the Korra ones?

>>91572159
>people doing anything in favor of Korra after Legend of Korra
I think North and South trilogy finished only most recently.

>>91571972
>Amon is just a rich guy that happens to preach comunism
It just feels like if he really had that much hatred for benders, his speech should be very different. I mean, let's pretend he is a rich kid that hates his father. Then he would be against patriarchy instead of wanting equality (which tecnically would also destroy patriarchy).. something like that. They could definitely explain better his ambitions.

>Mongols did that
Mongols don't make good villains.

>This analogy....doesn't make sense
You really want me to articulate on shit? very well.. a villain that believes in the might of Poop wants to shit on the entire planet. There is your villain, and that is a bad villain because his motivations are ridiculous/makes no sense. It's not just that "i don't like it", it's just that retarded villains don't make good villains. Valid =/= good.

>>91572318
>Mongols don't make good villains.

>>91571118
>The biggest complain is that the Lionturtle thing was an ex machina, which is admittedly a bit true
People that think this came out of nowhere just didn't remember all the episodes talking about energybending (guru, the swamp..). If you talk beforehand that a weird energy exists, and in the last couple of episodes explain what it does, it's not a deus ex.

That said the lion turtles didn't really do much.. taking away Ozai's bending doesn't really change the final outcome at all.

Blind earthkingdom waifu is best arc

>>91572365
9 years and people are still defending this shit

>>91571357
Agreed on this even though I prefer Korra. I really don't get the hate.

>>91572318
>Then he would be against patriarchy instead of wanting equality (which tecnically would also destroy patriarchy).. something like that. They could definitely explain better his ambitions.


Did you never interacted with rich communists? Must be because I do History on college, and on my country most of it is full of communist rich people who rant against other rich people without much self awareness, I got to see rich white people screaming that my black friends are racists because they have a different political stance. Amon feels just like a self hating bender, that he what he does as a necessary evil,and that knows that there is no other way to get the masses against benders unless he pretends to be one of them.

>Mongols don't make good villains.
Why?

Hell
> how there an Asian culture I spared show have violins thy act like Asia warlords.

Even Fire Nation war strategy of using captured enemies as human shield is taking after mongols.

>very well.. a villain that believes in the might of Poop wants to shit on the entire planet. There is your villain, and that is a bad villain because his motivations are ridiculous/makes no sense.

You are comparing a real political movement that terrorized world leaders in the last century, to a villain was ting to make a world of shit?

>>91572509
Not much defending as it is explaining. You can call it a stretch (which is not, really), but not deus ex. It didn't even "save" anyone; Ozai was literally defeated already before energybending.

>>91572318
Amon wanted ultimately to destroy power over people that was given to people in power only by birth.

He didn't understand what made his dad favor him over younger brother and why his existence made Tarlokk obsolete in dad's eyes and why should he allow himself to be molded by father into what he wanted. Noatak just happened to be good at what his father wanted him to be good at, but even that much shouldn't give power to Yakone to decide he is his successor in everything.

That being said, not sure how that translates into "all non-benders are oppressed" I think viewers are meant to call bullshit on that one, but then you can't help but question how an entire movement formed from this idelolgy.

>>91569019
Earth Kingdom is comfy as fuck nigga

Season 3 was just rushed plot development

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>>91572560
It just doesn't looks like someone acting on impulse/on hate would make such an ellaborate plan. Honestly, it looks like Amon would be the type to buy equalism from someone instead of making it himself (like a rich commie)

>Why?
"let's kill shit because" is the lowest kind of villain. Pic related.

>using captured enemies as human shield
what the hell are you talking about

>You are comparing a real political movement that terrorized world leaders in the last century, to a villain was ting to make a world of shit
Who said the guy that believes in shit can't terrorize the planet? it's not about the impact of his beliefs, but how shitty they are.

>>91572591
>Amon wanted ultimately to destroy power over people that was given to people in power only by birth
That's the thing: that's not what he wanted. Or at least, from the explanation of his motivations, not what we see.

You know.. even Bryke had to actually confirm to fans that Amon believed in all that bullshit. That's how bad they were at showing his motivation.

>>91572591
>>91572817

>That being said, not sure how that translates into "all non-benders are oppressed" I think viewers are meant to call bullshit on that one, but then you can't help but question how an entire movement formed from this idelolgy.

I will give my 2 cents over what I got on his characterization and backstory, I thought that it was pretty obvious when I whatched it.

>be a young water bender on the pole, you and your family live a peaceful life
>them, your dad discovers that you are a bender, and start training you and your brother
>he forces you to torture animals and your little brother, and wants to make you a weapon to get back at the people who removed his bending.
>you start to see your bending as just a weapon to fuck and manipulate others, because it is what your dad keeps teaching and training you for.
>you start to hate the concept of bending and what it can do to people, or cause in other people, you experienced it, and you did it on your brother. You hate yourself, you are a weapon.
>one day you snaps, call out your dad on his bulshit, and go wander by yourself.
>Probably inspired by what Aang did to his father (??) Somehow discovers chi blocking and a way to mix it with your blood bending (??)

>with this new knowledge decides to create an anti bending movement
>to avoid being called a hypocrite, and acused of using non benders to get power, he pretends to be a non bender to gain sympatethic support
>to undermine the authority of the avatar, claims that the spirits choose you to be the new guy in charge of balance (he says this on his second appereance to a crowd), and basicaly lies that his power level is enough to get rid of the bending of the world.

Obviously he would have failed anyway, he isnt strong enough to face the rest of the world alone, he likely would have wanted to die as a martir anti-bender. He gets it denied, and is show to be a liar...which makes him have nothing to live for.

>he lets his brother kill both of them.

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>>91572854
Fuck it, Bryke is non-canon to Korra. I'll stick with my motivation.

>>91572941
See, like, you aren't unreasonable, but even you bring into question leaps in logic that are forced upon your reasoning by show itself.

>>91572817
I always thought Gaston from Belle and the beast was kind of a chill guy. Yes he did try to force marry Belle but other than that he was a ok guy.

>>91572817
>let's kill shit because" is the lowest kind of villain. Pic related.

First, the mongols and Ozai didn't killed for nothing, and the fact that you used this old BAIT pic unironicaly makes you look retarded. The quality of a vilain isn't related to how reasonable his goals are, Aku is a nice example of it. This is at worst stupid, and at best just your particular opinion.

Mongols and Ozai killed because they wanted to make their enemoes fear them, and be afraid of revolting. Mongols killed an entire city without warning to make a point for other cities, that after hearing what happened would submit without fight.

>what the hell are you talking about
Earth bender soldier in Zuko Alone says that the Fire Nation uses captured enemy soldiers as meat shiled on the battlefield.

>it's not about the impact of his beliefs, but how shitty they are.

This is subjective. Stop pretending that your particular taste dictates legitimate goals of vilains.

>>91573049
>leaps in logic

Which ones exactly? I agree that a lot of this is mostly speculation from what I got on the show, and could have been explored more.

>>91573128
>Probably inspired by what Aang did to his father (??) Somehow discovers chi blocking and a way to mix it with your blood bending (??)
I thought (??) were you putting it in doubt yourself.

>>91573152
More like I have no idea on how it happened. Not exactly a leap in logic and not something impossible in universe....nigga just needed to reaserach about chakras and chi blocking....just something that really is never explored or explained. The period where he goes from teenage wandering around and leader of the movement is a mystery.

>>91573092
>First, the mongols and Ozai didn't killed for nothing
What exactly was Ozai going to get from burning the EK?

>The quality of a vilain isn't related to how reasonable his goals are, Aku is a nice example of it
Aku is a very 'meh' villain. He does have redeeming qualities for being tematically coherent, but he is very simplistic. People only liked because of his voice.

>Mongols and Ozai killed because they wanted to make their enemoes fear them
Ozai was burning lands with no one in it, and said he would burn the entire EK-- land he was trying to conquer.

>This is subjective
yeah, a guy that thinks eating shit is good is totally subjective and not ridiculous at all.

>legitimate goals of vilains
What exactly are you defining as 'legitimate'? we both agree his goals doesn't make any fucking sense and anyone with a brain can see how retarded it is. I'm not saying a villain cannot be retarded; i'm just saying that's not a GOOD villain.

>>91573215
I phrased it badly, i didn't want to mean those were your leaps, I blame show for everything.

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Earth Kingdom is best nation

>>91573748
Patrician taste right there.
Order:
1. Earth
2. Air
3. Fire
4. Water
Fight me.

>>91573521
>What exactly was Ozai going to get from burning the EK?

He said: making the population fear the Fire Nation, and stop revolting, otherwise they would die, because their leader is willing to kill everything in his path to make the point. Its fear tactic.

>Aku is a very 'meh' villain. He does have redeeming qualities for being tematically coherent, but he is very simplistic. People only liked because of his voice.

People like him because he works on the narrative and with the themes. You still didnt explained on how making the vilain reasonable make him inherently good.

Also, I never even whatched Samurai Jack with the original voices, and many other peopler didnt either. So what is your point? He is entertaining, because he works well.

>Ozai was burning lands with no one in it

He wanted to burn everything in the path, with or without people. First you have to keep in mind that he wouldnt be able to reach all the continent, because the commet would be gone by it, dont take what he says literaly. Second, his idea was that he would make a world out of the ashes, hence the "fenix king" name, and the decision to burn everything that he could reach to the ground. Its an egomaniacal decision.

>yeah, a guy that thinks eating shit is good is totally subjective and not ridiculous at all.

There are places on the world that eat shit, you know, there is a place on Mexico where people make food out of guano, there are tribes on Asia that drink water out of the feces of horses. There are places on the world that think that what you eat is weird too, like Indian people thinking that eating meat is weird. On China they eat dogs and you probably would dipise, and still, you eat cows, which Indians would despise.

And still, this say nothing over how making a vilain be anarchist automaticaly make him a bad vilain.

>>91573521
>What exactly are you defining as 'legitimate'?

It must make sense for the vilain, based on his own rationalization, that doesn't actualy need to be reasonable, just consitent based on his world view.


>I'm not saying a villain cannot be retarded; i'm just saying that's not a GOOD villain.

Why?

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>>91566882
>>91568848
>>91570789
W-we're are all just trolling here, right guys?

>>91573924
5. Heart

>>91573940
>making the population fear the Fire Nation
What population? water tribe? he was planning to burn everything down.

>You still didnt explained on how making the vilain reasonable make him inherently good
There are plenty of bad reasonable villains. Being reasonable is just a good basis, and not a good villain. Anyway,"being unreasonable" is quite open. There is 'i will kill you for not bowing to me' unreasonable, and there is 'lol let's kill the leaders because people will totally still respect the law if we do and things will be okay'. One of them is just bad as motivation. it's not about being unreasonable, but being completely retarded. One man may order you to bow to him because he feels he is superior, because he want respect.. but why the hell a man that wants the best for society, like Zaheer, would want to kill world leaders? it's incoherent.

>So what is your point? He is entertaining
And so is the joker, but that doesn't make him a good villain. It's literally just lolrandom. But honestly? even the joker/aku are leagues above Zaheer. At least they are consistent.

> he wouldnt be able to reach all the continent, because the commet would be gone by it
doesn't stops him from burning the rest, just decrease the power.

>There are places on the world that eat shit
yes, that's what i said originally. It doesn't make it less ridiculous.

>Indian people thinking that eating meat is weird
not 'weird', just against their beliefs. They are the weird ones on that part and they know it.

>China they eat dogs and you probably would dipise
Eating anything that is not shit is just a question of how bad things are. You could eat insects that i would understand. But eating shit can fuck with your body and brings nothing to you.

>this say nothing over how making a vilain be anarchist automaticaly make him a bad vilain
The fact that a 2 minutes talk can show every flaw in his logic

>>91574045
Republic City is the fifth element ha here and definitely belongs at the bottom.

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>>91574447
>Eating anything that is not shit is just a question of how bad things are
In certain parts of China and other asian countries, eating dogs isn't due to lack of other meat, they literally breed dogs to eat.

>>91574593
I know, man. I was more talking about the ways culinary developed. They eat a lot of weird things in France as well, because for a long time they starved. Your nation as a whole starts to 'lower your standards', or perhaps looking other ways. The point is, you would eat all that in some scenarios, but you would definitely not eat shit. And you definitely would not follow something that with 30 seconds of reasoning you can know it doesn't work.

Just to clarify one more thing that you may be thinking... we're talking about actual reasonable people, and not some religious follower. Zaheer used all his brain power and got to this shitty conclusion. It's different from someone that was alienated all his life by a religion and lost his ability to think.

>>91566882
That ending completely ruined the entire story.

>>91571118
>I felt like it was a neat appeal to humanity.
But it completely removes the humanity from the story. Aang's character no longer matters because he's just carried through the story without actually having to make any decisions.

A story where magic bullshit just fixes everything is hollow.

>>91575443
Why?

>>91572571
Which still leaves the rock as an indefensible DEM.

If it were just the lion turtle or just the rock, the ending would be flawed but still hold up. But having both makes it utter trash.

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>>91571642
>>91571677

>>91575582
Because all of Aang's character development and journey are thrown out the window.

The story is set up as a kid who runs away from conflict being forced to stand firm.

But in the finale, he ends up just taking the path of least resistance at every turn, avoiding every problem until it magically solves itself. Not even his elemental training comes into play, because he wins using a power he was born with and one he's handed 5 minutes before the final battle.

>>91575677
>Which still leaves the rock as an indefensible DEM
Deus ex machina is something new and unexpected, never before mentioned, saving the day. The real issue of the rock is that... it was the Exact same way Aang lost his powers.

How could you not expect that Aang was going to get his powers back from being hit on that place if that's how he lost it? it's like the guy that hits his head and loses his memory. I think it's far from a deus ex, but perhaps you could call it a stretch? coincidence? bullshit? for me it just looks reasonable to get hit in the middle of a fight.

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>>91566882
>There are people who think the finale was acceptable
>There are people who think it was "the best television finale I have ever seen"

>>91576167
"Convenient coincidence" is the word I'd use.

Making sense in-universe doesn't change the fact that it's a bullshit cop-out. It's like if Ozai suddenly died from a brain aneurysm.

>>91576018
>Aang's character development and journey are thrown out the window
If Aang did not learn how to control the Avatar State, he would have killed Ozai. He was only able to protect his way because of his journey.

>magically solves itself
He is literally throwing magic at people all the time. You don't want it to be solved with magic?

>he wins using a power he was born with
First of, Aang actually had the chance of defeating Ozai using his own powers. Remember the part where Aang could have redirected Ozai's lightining? and again, if that was true, he would have killed Ozai with his avatar state.

Also, were you really expecting a 11 years old to defeat an adult with three times his experience and powered by a fucking comet?

>>91574447
>What population? water tribe? he was planning to burn everything down.

Are you autistic? Did you took it literaly? As I said it would be impossible to so that to the entire continent. What he would do, and was doing, is burning a large portion of the land.

Do you really thought that he wanted to burn EVERYTHING, including the cities that he occupied?

>Being reasonable is just a good basis, and not a good villain.

Not really, being reasoble doesnt influence in any mean the quality of the vilain.

>but why the hell a man that wants the best for society, like Zaheer, would want to kill world leaders?

Because he thinks that society would operate better without them. Same reason as anarchists did.

>And so is the joker, but that doesn't make him a good villain.

Dont be retarded, being entertaining, following what the writter wanted to portray, makes it a good vilain. Being "right", doesn't make it good, it doesn't say nothing about the quality of the character or the plot.

>It's literally just lolrandom.

Mostly this isn't even Joker's motivation, or Aku's.

>doesn't stops him from burning the rest, just decrease the power.

What?

>yes, that's what i said originally. It doesn't make it less ridiculous.

I just described how different cultures have different views on what makes things ridiculous, based on different circunstances.

>not 'weird', just against their beliefs.

lol what? Someone that grows in a place all their life where something is the norm, will think that the alternative is weird AND against their beliefs.

>They are the weird ones on that part and they know it.

Why THEY are the weird ones, and not you? Even more: on their point of view? Dis you considered that you just think this because of the place and time where you were born?

>>91576362
C'mon.. people get hit in fights. If Aang had hit his head instead, would that make more sense?

>>91576626
The point is that it sucks ass from a storytelling perspective. It removes Aang's conflict and agency, so you get stuff that is no longer about people and is now just about Bryke's made-up magic system.

>>91576480
>If Aang did not learn how to control the Avatar State, he would have killed Ozai. He was only able to protect his way because of his journey.
But Aang didn't master the Avatar State. At no point do his feelings for Katara show any sign of changing.

>You don't want it to be solved with magic?
I want it to be solved in a way where Aang's character actually matters. If you take away the human element the story is worthless.

>Also, were you really expecting a 11 years old to defeat an adult with three times his experience and powered by a fucking comet?
That's the entire premise of the series. Aang is the most powerful bender on the planet, and literally the only firebending we had ever seen or heard of Ozai using was burning the face of a child who was on his knees and refusing to fight back. The idea that Aang could beat him without bullshit was far from absurd.

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Reminder that this is the best character from LoK, who eventually had to have retarded and obvious Hitler parallels because otherwise Bryke could not find a legitimate reason for the audience to see her as a villain.

>>91576949
Ang did master it. We see him use it after taking away the fire Lords bending to put out all the fire

>>91574447
>The fact that a 2 minutes talk can show every flaw in his logic

A 2 minutes talk can show that thinking that the world works on objective logic and morals is stupid. Still, here we are.

>>91574811
>but you would definitely not eat shit.
As I said, there are people, modern people, that eat it, and hell, guano has better nutrional values than a big mac aparently (?)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x6846712

>Just to clarify one more thing that you may be thinking... we're talking about actual reasonable people, and not some religious follower.

Do you really think that there is a difference between a radical fanatic politician and a radical fanatic muslin?

Hell, this shit is so stupid, that you make it seems that you just needed 2 minutes of conversation to make Stalin, Mao and terrorists anarchists would convince them that their logic was stupid. This is not how people work, as seem by you keeping defending this position.

Che Guevara killed people for listening to rock and having long hair. Do you really think that you could change his policies with 2 minutes of conversation?

> Zaheer used all his brain power and got to this shitty conclusion.

Like real, sane people did and still do. So what is the deal?


And you still didnt answered why making the vilain neing closer to be "right" makes him a better vilain than the alternatives.

>>91576597
>Did you took it literaly
Was there any reason not to take it literally? the guy was burning good land with no one nearby to "terrorize" for no reason. He looks crazy enough.

>it would be impossible to so that to the entire continent
We don't know that

>being reasoble doesnt influence in any mean the quality of the vilain
>Because he thinks that society would operate better without them
Villain A: i will bring the nation in a state of chaos, but instead of bandits raping the land we will totally have people come together and create an anarchic state.

Villain B: I will just conquer the nation because i'm an evil cunt

You really think that doesn't change anything? i would say you jut have low standards for villains.

>following what the writter wanted to portray, makes it a good vilain
This is getting ridiculous. By your definition a villain can NEVER be bad. It's just "the way the writer wanted to portray"

>I just described how different cultures have different views on what makes things ridiculous
No, you just described that there are ridiculous cultures. Example: Yemen, where you can fuck 8yo kids, and if they die on the act it's totally not your fault. Eating shit is ridiculous no matter how you look at it, and so are Zaheer's ideas.

>will think that the alternative is weird AND against their beliefs
Unless he is being completely alienated (then we're talking on a completely different kind of character.. see my post about religion) he will know the rest of the planet eats meat and respect that.

I would be really only repeating my other post about religion/culture, but basically: it's different from Zaheer. One person being alienated his entire life into a belief can make a good villain. But one person getting to the """rational""" thought that anarchism is good, is not. It just make him retarded.

>>91576949
>At no point do his feelings for Katara show any sign of changing.

It literaly showed it, right before Azula hitting him with lighting. It was the entire point of the scene.

>>91576949
>But Aang didn't master the Avatar State. At no point do his feelings for Katara show any sign of changing.
He did master it at the end of season 2. Jesus christ, does no one understand what 'letting go' really means?

>>91576208
The finale was good even with the bullshit.

>>91572808
This. The fact that they could blatantly waste entire episodes and end up so rushed at the end seems incredibly half-assed.

>>91576949
>But Aang didn't master the Avatar State
If he didn't have mastered it, he would have killed Ozai. Anyway, he actually did it in the end of S02

>At no point do his feelings for Katara show any sign of changing
That's where people get the "let go" part wrong. Letting go doesn't mean not having ties; Roku was fucking married and had kids. So was Kyoshi. The point of letting go is being ABLE to let go of Katara, something he did in S02. If "let go" means giving away everything you had, Aang would need to walk around naked to conquer the avatar state.

>I want it to be solved in a way where Aang's character actually matters
controlling the avatar state looks like the way his character matters. Again, he didn't kill Ozai so he was in control.

>That's the entire premise of the series
The premise of the series is the AVATAR defeating the firelord. That's why people trust Aang. Not because he is Aang, but because he is the avatar. It is a story of the avatar as much as it is about Aang.

And Again, Aang did had his chance of redirecting Ozai's lightning, he choses not to.

>>91577631
>A 2 minutes talk can show that thinking that the world works on objective logic and morals is stupid
Objectively speaking, the world does work on objective logic. If people follow that logic is another story.

>>91577664
>Was there any reason not to take it literally?

Yes? You just look genuinely autistic now, because autistic people can't differentiate figure of speech from literal meaning.

They also have a hard time understanding different world views and beliefs.

>We don't know that

...seriously...you think that with the speed of the flying machines, slower than Appa...he would somehow reach the entire continent in one day (when it is show that it needs several days to do so)?


>Villain A: i will bring the nation in a state of chaos, but instead of bandits raping the land we will totally have people come together and create an anarchic state.

What is the problem with this villain?

>You really think that doesn't change anything? i would say you jut have low standards for villains.

Not really. Aku is a good villain and isn't reasonable, he is the incarnation of the cruel side of the universe and wants to spread it, it works in a TV show where the protagonist wields the literal honour of men to battle him. You just seems to be incapable of understanding context.

>This is getting ridiculous. By your definition a villain can NEVER be bad. It's just "the way the writer wanted to portray"

No Champs, read again, the pint is that there is no "secret formula" like you think, only good and bad EXECUTION.

>No, you just described that there are ridiculous cultures.

Now you are being just autistic and not reasonable at all. "If it is different from me it is ridiculous!"

Go read Fucking Nietchz or something, to understand that your morals and values were just inserted o you on your infancy, as much as anybody else on the world. If you were from the shit eating people, you would defend with the same autism that not eating shit is ridiculous.

>>91578245
>Objectively speaking, the world does work on objective logic. If people follow that logic is another story.

Yes, was talking about people.

>>91577631
>guano has better nutrional values than a big mac
Doesn't eating shit putrefy you from inside out? there IS a sickness associated with eating shit. It's wrong to eat both anyway. I don't think anyone eats a big mac and says "wow, so healthy"

>Do you really think that there is a difference between a radical fanatic politician and a radical fanatic muslin
Zaheer actually wanted to talk to people and explain his reasoning. It's clearly something he study, and not something that was engraved on his mind. There is a very big gap between being alienated and using fucked up reasoning. A muslim, for example, is molded to follow his beliefs since the day he was born. Zaheer and radicals had every opportunity to learn everything else and decided not to learn it out of pure ignorance. There is a fundamental difference of having/not having the choice to change. You can even relate to someone that has been alienated, but you cannot relate to an idiot.

>you make it seems that you just needed 2 minutes of conversation to make Stalin, Mao and terrorists anarchists would convince them that their logic was stupid
Socialism is the inverse of anarchism. There is no flaw in logic at all with socialism. You coud argue about dictatorship, but even that has it's value.

>Do you really think that you could change his policies with 2 minutes of conversation
The difference is that Che Guevara doesn't actually care to people. He was a cunt; he KNOWS he is wrong. Why would i change the mind of someone that knows he is wrong and do it anyway? he died with two Rolex in his arms. He knew he was doing something wrong and chose to do it anyway because it benefits him. It's completely reasonable. Zaheer on the other hand actually CARED for people, and did something that goes against them.

>Like real, sane people did and still do
>sane
kek

>>91577631
>you still didnt answered why making the vilain neing closer to be "right" makes him a better vilain
You mean "why a retarded villain is bad", right? because LoK is not supposed to be Spongebob; it's supposed to be serious. When you can't look at a villain expose his reasoning without a facepalm, there is something clearly wrong. And worst of all: how no one shows him how retarded he is.

You see, if someone would call Zaheer on his bullshit it would make it 20% more interesting, but no one does. His reasoning is taken seriously when it shouldn't be.

>>91578739
Forget man, he is fucking retarded or baiting.

"Mongols were bad villains".

>>91578739
>Yes
for example?

>he would somehow reach the entire continent in one day
As i said, not having the comet only takes some of his firepower, it doesn't stop him from burning the land. Your point?

>What is the problem with this villain
That his reasoning doesn't make sense as to why people would not just elect someone else, and as to why bandits would just sit iddle while there is disorder.

>Aku is a good villain and isn't reasonable
He is an evil cunt. The different is that he doesn't care about people in the first place and is arguably achieving his plans (his plans are chaos, basically), while Zaheer is doing something that won't ever achieve his plans. He kills a leader. Then what? what's stopping people from putting someone else in power, or someone taking power for himself? What is stopping a warlord to take power? or bandits to go raping the land? there is 0% chance an anarchic state would appear from simply killing a world leader.

>only good and bad EXECUTION
According to you that depends on "what the writer intended". Did Bryke intend for Zaheer to be retarded? for his views to be unreasonable?

>"If it is different from me it is ridiculous!"
Fucking 8yo children is ridiculous. Eating shit-- that will cause a lot of issues to you-- is ridiculous. Killing people for their sexuality is ridiculous. Yeah, a culture CAN be ridiculous, it doesn't mean all of them are. I can understand not eating meat. I can understand thinking other people should not eating meat, but at the moment you start to kill people for eating meat you're being ridiculous. But again, this has to do with alienation, and not rational thought.

>your morals and values were just inserted o you
But reasoning wasn't. I know fucking a kid will also fucking them up mentally; i know it could kill them, and i know our society needs kids to function properly. That's why even tribal societies forbid people to fuck kids (not teenagers; we're talking kids here).

>>91578854
"some people don't work on logic" is a very bad argument. They're just shitty people. Anyway, Zaheer does looks like he works on logic; that he rationally got to the conclusion that Anarchism is good. After all, he had access to every book, every form of government, and still got to his conclusion. He is not based on blind faith, and got to a completely stupid theory.

>>91580162
Not him, but
>actually believing in objective moral, good and evil

You are retarded and naive.

Seeing Aang firebend during the final fight felt so strange, there were maybe 30 seconds of him firebending in the entire series up to that point and the last third of season 3 was spent on everybody going on adventures with Zuko.

>>91571109
>lol I forgot to tell you my dad's evil plan
Did Zuko even really need to the Gaang of Ozai's plan?

>last time Sozin's Comet happened Aang's people got wiped out
>nah let's wait until after it's passed
What did they think was going to happen?

>>91580786
>actually believing in objective moral, good and evil
When did i say that?
you don't need moral or idea of good/evil to understand if things are benefical or not. As i said before, fucking a 8yo kid is objectively bad not only for society, but for the individual. Of course you could be a cunt and say this just doesn't matter to you, but in the greater scheme of things there is a bit of self-preservation on protecting those laws as it would improve your society and stop things to go to other extremes. You only need to be rational about it. In Yemen they're not. "the prophet did it, so it's okay". Mohamed could jump off a bridge that they would do it as well.

>>91582068
>fucking a 8yo kid is objectively bad not only for society, but for the individual.

And why someone should give a fuck for society or an individual?

Hell, what if I am a warlord, that decided to buy a 8 years old fuckboy JUST to fuck? What if I have no other plan to his existence, than being my fucktoy, and I dont care for his feelings.

Tell me why this would ruin society, if I am in a society based on slavery of fuckboys.

>>91582253
not that guy but your retardation is only digging you deeper and deeper.

>>91582398
>not that guy

Ha, sure. But go on, explain.

>>91582253
>why someone should give a fuck for society or an individual
Self-preservation. You could argue one person might not give a fuck about self-preservation or society, but that's an irrelevant minority. Most people think there should be order, that we should all live and eventually build something worthwhile. Except on Yemen. See the problem? that's why they are ridiculously backwards people and the laughing stock of the planet. If they don't feel that way is irrelevant. While their people will be living on the mud and eventually die, we will be living as kings.

>>91582606
>Self-preservation. You could argue one person might not give a fuck about self-preservation or society, but that's an irrelevant minority.

Here is where you are childish again, once more implying that there is one view of the world or moral. Take the mongols for example again. They went to from China to middle east, Russia and Europe, to people that never heard about them, demanding them to bow or be destroyed, without caring for THEIR preservation, or anybody but them. In your shitty logic this would mean that this would make them 'ineficcient" or "irrational" against the best interests of humanity. Would you say that their entire culture was a "irrelevant minory"?

When the fact is, in a blood bath they opened one of the most efficient empires of their time and brought a golden age to the silk route making ideas and inventions travel from the east and west quickly, which helped to bring us to where our society is today. So from the actions that you would believe are cruel or monstrous, it was born something worthwile.

Tell me, how your self preservation explain what is right or wrong, or efficient on this scenary. Which is the beneficial one?

It is also pretty stupid, because you don't take in cosideration that every person that you or me desagree politicaly, do this because they think is better for society, even if it radicaly different from what you think. Like with Zaheer

>Most people think there should be order, that we should all live and eventually build something worthwhile.

Fact is, most people desagree on everyone of these stances. Yemen for example? They have their own concept of order, of society and what constitutes building something worthwile.

>While their people will be living on the mud and eventually die, we will be living as kings.

So the moral of the richest and more powerful people is objectively the right one? If you were throw to the lions in Rome for amusement, they romans would be right because you are less than them?

>>91582606
>Self-preservation. You could argue one person might not give a fuck about self-preservation or society, but that's an irrelevant minority.

Except that societies are divided in groups, and each group think that it knows better than others, and don't care for destroying each other to achieve their goals. You are just bulshiting. Also, normal people don't make all of their choices based on "broad society", they make based on themselves. Also, you used ad populun like it was a valid argument.

>>91582068
>slavery at some time was the most efficient form of workforce
>so, slavery is good

This type of logic doesn't work very well.

>>91580162
>Did Bryke intend for Zaheer to be retarded? for his views to be unreasonable?
Obviously, I mean, he is the villain. You are supposed to disagree with him.

>>91583378
>They went to from China to middle east, Russia and Europe, to people that never heard about them, demanding them to bow or be destroyed, without caring for THEIR preservation
Because there was profit to be gained. Because they believed they could win and therefore not risk so much their self-preservation. As you said, they made one of the most efficient empires of their time; to go conquering is a RATIONAL choice. And again, my point is that there is a rationality behind things, and not that everyone follows that rationality. There might be ONE guy there that fights because he thinks it's fun, but clearly that's the minority. Most had something to gain, or nothing to lose. Either way, the guy that fights for fun is retarded.

>every person that you or me desagree politicaly, do this because they think is better for society
The difference is in what they do when they are faced with facts that show his political position is clearly not the best for society. Just look on youtube at all those videos of people defending Islam, and what happens when you show statistics to these people. They start to call you racist or bigot because they don't actually have arguments anymore.

>the moral of the richest and more powerful people is objectively the right one
No one is talking about moral here. We're talking about rationality. Regardless of moral, the Romans are clearly more rational to the point of making a better society than whatever hole you came from, considering you lived on a less developed society.

>>91583661
>each group think that it knows better than others
and what happens when they sit down and have a civil discussion? one side wins, or from that they both get to a conclusion. My point is NOT different opinions; my point is having the rationality to discuss and see what is better. It's different from Yemen where they just fuck children and kill you if you say anything about their "laws". They don't want discussion.

>ad populun
No, it's called ruling out the exceptions. Otherwise you could argue the vision of world of someone with mental problems has the exact same value of someone sane following a strict rationality.

>>91583820
>This type of logic doesn't work very well
That's not my logic at all. To begin with i'm not arguing what is good or bad.

>>91583944
>You are supposed to disagree
So the villain has to be retarded so he can be a villain?

>>91584217

>Because they believed they could win and therefore not risk so much their self-preservation

But didn't you said that people who care about themselves and not the "broad civilization" are ridiculous and a minority? Like the warlord that fuck 8 years old (like the mongols, the guys that you are calling rationals now)?

>Either way, the guy that fights for fun is retarded.

Why?


But we ARE talking about moral here, and rationality. It is rational to kill people in games on coliseuns, to make the population happy and satisfied.

>They start to call you racist or bigot because they don't actually have arguments anymore.

And you call them "ridiculous" when you have no argument.

>>91584418
>and what happens when they sit down and have a civil discussion? one side wins, or from that they both get to a conclusion. My point is NOT different opinions; my point is having the rationality to discuss and see what is better.

But what is better for one group is not better for others.

See the mongols as an example again, or the guy being thrown at lions in Rome. Also you are once again naive, thinking that people will just back off.

>No, it's called ruling out the exceptions.

Sorry, it is a classic and obvious example of ad populun fallacy. Just admit it, it fits the criteria.

It is even more stupid because other times or populations had different views he'd by the majority,like slavery, so by your logic they were legitimate, rational and right.

>>91584418
>So the villain has to be retarded so he can be a villain?

>retarded
Stop thinking that everything that thinks differently from you is retarded. Bakumin that wrote the anarchist theory is certainly more well read and a intelectual than you, to dismiss people as just blind and retarded, without following or understanding their logic or thought pattern is childish and close minded. Anyway, he is the villain, he is SUPPOSED to be on the wrong, otherwise he is not a villain.

>>91572817
Holy shit. Did someone actually believed on this meme?

>>91584418
>That's not my logic at all. To begin with i'm not arguing what is good or bad.
But you are. You keep saying "what is better for society or the individual".

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>>91584783
>Bakumin
?

>>91584563
>didn't you said that people who care about themselves and not the "broad civilization" are ridiculous and a minority
No. Also, in your example they care about themselves AND their society. They are conquerors; they want to expand it. They demmand respect from others. They have their own culture and habits. They want profit (for themselves, or for the society. Doesn't matter). Wanting to conquer is a rational way to make a society.

>the warlord that fuck 8 years old (like the mongols, the guys that you are calling rationals now
Wait, are you arguing that a society cannot have parts that are irrational if they are rational in other ways? because i never said that.

>Why
no self-preservation or thinking of true benefit for himself or society. Rationally speaking, he is a dumbass.

>we ARE talking about moral here
You certainly are. First thing i did was to explain this was a matter of rationality; "If eating your own shit is bad for you, you shouldn't do that" was my first example.

>And you call them "ridiculous" when you have no argument
You mean: when they put feelings and impulses instead of rationality, because that was my original argument.

>>91584673
>But what is better for one group is not better for others
They may reach that conclusion. Your point? that is still rational, so i don't really see the problem.

>you are once again naive, thinking that people will just back off
What the hell do you think i'm arguing? now i'm curious.

>it is a classic and obvious example of ad populun fallacy
Ad populun would be basically appealing to the majority, so no. It's clearly different what i'm doing:
- eating shit is bad for your health and if people do that they will end up dying
- but person A, that has mental issues, eats shit and he likes it so it's definitely subjective if it is a good or a bad thing!

I'm ruling out people that don't work on rationality, of course. Otherwise you will never get to any agreement to anything. Not even mathematics. I'm not calling for the opinion of the majority; i'm saying one group doesn't matter. Saying X doesn't apply is different from saying that There is more Y than X.

>>91584861
Better, yes (as in: will develop the society). Good as in "morally acceptable", no.

>>91584964
>no self-preservation or thinking of true benefit for himself or society. Rationally speaking, he is a dumbass.

The same can be said about anyone that practices a dangerous sport or activity, like hiking.

Goddammit man, you are a close minded faggot.

>no benefit for himself

Didn't he enjoy it?

>no benefit for society

Isn't him one more bow and soldier to a warlord and conqueror?

>>91585668
>The same can be said about anyone that practices a dangerous sport or activity, like hiking
Does anyone go hiking without protective gear?

>Didn't he enjoy it
killing himself? he might. He is still a dumbass.

>Isn't him one more bow and soldier to a warlord and conqueror
The point is if HE did it for that benefit. Basically, i'm considering a guy that wanted to fight just for the will to fight alone. He doesn't get paid, he doesn't care about society.. he just wants to fight.

>>91572318
>Mongols don't make good villains.
Oh no, it's retarded.

>>91566882
Season 4 was terrible.

The rest was great.

>>91569278
>being this unable to accept differing opinions
ATLA fans are the worst