This is probably one of the most ambitious superhero movies ever

Whatever you say.

I'd argue avengers was far more ambitious. They set up five films across four years before blowing their load with the full Avengers movie, and everything DC is doing just feels like they're playing catch-up. However I have a strong Marvel bias, and I am looking forward to Wonder Woman and hope it's better than the previous DC entries.

>ambitious

You're using this word incorrectly.

>>91530154
nice blog post

now fuck off back to /tv/

>>91530290

I've been to /tv/ once. It's an experience I don't want to relive.

>>91530286

See, I disagree because I think Avengers would have been a success, even if it didn't have the movies to set it up. Sure, you get some personal benefit out of seeing it with the knowledge of the other movies but even if you watch it without having seen them it still works just fine.

But that's a different topic for a different thread, I'd prefer to discuss the movie on its own merits and I don't care enough for the companies producing these movies to weigh in on their rivalry. They've both made stuff I liked for different reasons.

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>>91530317
>I've been to /tv/ once. It's an experience I don't want to relive.
doesn't matter it's where your kind belongs

Hi /tv/.

For a board about movies, you sure have fucking shit taste in everything. If you actually watched actual good films, you'd know that BvS is just your typical children's movie that tries to be deep, but doesn't achieve anything. There is absolutely no superhero movie that deserves to be called "experimental" or "deep". If you actually think so, you'e a 12 year old or haven't watched anything but action blockbusters your entire life.

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>>91530154
Rango the Chamaleon and Double King are better.

This is nothing special, better written movies show up all the time in Hollywood.

>>91530333

Hi /b/,

if you wanna scoff at people for watching action movies or wanting to discuss them you might find it more reasonable not to do so on a board dedicated to cartoons and comics.

I'm not here to compare Batman v Superman to Last Year in Marienbad, I'm here to talk about it in the context of its genre. This might come as a surprise to you but if I wanted to talk about obscure french arthouse movies, and yes, I've seen a bunch of those to, I wouldn't do it here (or on /tv/, for that matter) and I wouldn't hold them to the same standards as a movie about super heroes.

toxic avenger 4 was the best 21st century superhero movie

>>91530154
You know how you do messages in action movies?
You let the action tell the message, you don't have characters literally tell you how they feel or use blatant imagery referencing other works that tell their message better than you.

Fucking Demolition Man is way more clever than BvS and it's a 30 year old movie. Hell even Jurrasic Park is more subtle and it has fucking color coded characters saying stuff like "life finds a way". And neither of those is as masturbatory about being clever and unique as BvS is. Even if you buy that it's ambitious (which really it isn't, there's literally nothing unique about its messages or the way they are presented) there are tons of Hollywood blockbusters examples that are more ambitious than it AND execute their ambitions better.

>>91530330
>Everything i dislike is /tv/
holy shit, 2016 really broke you faggots didn't it

>>91530531
only /tv/ would be stupid enough to defend an obviously shitty movie

>>91530506
Demolition Man was a fucking masterpiece and I'm eternally grateful my father took me to see it when I was 10.

>>91530559
>my father took me to see it when I was 10.
jeez grandpa don't you have anything better to do with your time?

>>91530506
It was one of the worst super hero movies of the last years, and is regarded as a modern Batman&Robin.

WB own properties make fun of it.

The fact that you care more about what they INTENDED to do, instead of their execution, shows that you have a really childish way to see the world and analyze any media. It's a pseudo intelectual way to deal with movies.

>>91530531
Fuck off fag, /tv/ is know for making long ass essays defending bad movies out of fun. No surprise that Snyder "fans" ruined super hero movie discussion on 2 boards and are basically the worst live action fan base of the site.

>>91530506
>You let the action tell the message, you don't have characters literally tell you how they feel or use blatant imagery referencing other works that tell their message better than you.
bullshit, just because that how you wnat it, doesnt mean that how it should be played out.

>Even if you buy that it's ambitious (which really it isn't, there's literally nothing unique about its messages or the way they are presented)
Again bullshit, its fine not to like the text, but to say it didn't do anything unique is a massive disservice. It's presentation of themes in the opening sequence alone has more emotional weight and depth then almost all other mainstream releases in the past five years.

>Hollywood blockbusters examples that are more ambitious than it AND execute their ambitions better.
Like?

>>91530154
>ambitious
>experimental
When it's a movie that results in the same loud, disorienting monster fight that every superhero movie has nowadays

>>91530545
you're so mad, holy shit

>>91530583
Kek sure they did

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speaking of Demolition Man and WB being the worst fucking company on earth

>Apparently, those fans have helped the film pull in a significant amount of profits in the decades since its release, but Stallone says the studio—Warner Bros.—has been screwing him over on residuals. Now Stallone is suing Warner Bros., but he’s framing the lawsuit as a bigger issue than just him not being paid the money he was owed.

>According to the BBC, Stallone’s lawsuit—which is coming from his production company Rogue Marble—calls out all movie studios for being “notoriously greedy,” and it specifically notes that Warner Bros. sat on the profits from Demolition Man for years “without any justification.” The story says that Stallone’s original contract entitled him to 15 percent of the film’s profits if it made at least $125 million, which he says it has, but the studio has been hesitant to give Stallone what he thinks he’s owed. So, his lawsuit is asking for “a full accounting of the film’s proceeds” in addition to damages and interest on the money he believes Warner Bros. owes him, and Stallone is reportedly hoping it will also put an end to the studio’s practice of withholding money from people and hoping they won’t notice.

>>91530154
>the most ambitious superhero movies ever made
I suppose it was ambitious to try and pass off a piece of shit like it was high art. Then again, modern art does that all the time too, so I guess it wasn't that groundbreaking.

>>91530566
Not really. I wake up, shit shower shave, then /co/ and meander through youtube and webcomics I've long since gone numb to until it's time to go to work.

Y'know how I know this movie really fucking sucks?

Because people keep coming in here to defend it every gotdamn day like their lives depended on getting other people to acknowledge it as a gift from God.

You don't see that kind of shit happen for "Iron Man" or "Blade II" or "The Crow". You don't see that shit happen even for the first two "Thor" movies, which are the objectively worst films in the MCU. Shit, THE X-MEN MOVIES ALL SUCK, and nobody comes in here to defend those shitheaps on a regular basis.

So if you are coming here to defend MoS or BvS as unrivalled cinematic tour de forces, you are only furthering the view that these films suck more ass than Faye Reagan before the overdose - and that you are a delusional headcase who needs to check into a mental health facility.

>>91530154
it was a piece of shit and only pseudo-intellectuals like you /tv/ fags like it

>>91530613

Ah, Hollywood accounting, where the original Star Wars films can make billions of dollars over the past four decades and still be called "unprofitable".

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>>91530631
This.

If it was good /co/ wouldn't talk about it, and the faggy defenders wouldn't spend all the days of their lifes trying to defend it against everybody.

It's the Hellboy rule.

>>91530668
So much this.


But guys, don't forget to Sage this kind of thread when you post on it.

>>91530631
U wot?

People will defend something they like, the same way people will defend MCU films or the X Men films. You get lots of discussion for BvS as there is a lot of low lying themes in the imagery and allegory that it give people things to talk about, Iron Man or the Crow, while both good, are fairly straightforward in their display.

Are you literally autistic?

>>91530154
pretentious /tv/ fag

>>91530154
>it has a lot of interesting themes and messages

No it doesn't.

>it's kind of a miracle

No it isn't.

>likely to become a cult classic

No it won't.

>>91530682
Sorry mate, it isn't true.

Are YOU autistic?

>>91530631
>You don't see that kind of shit happen for "Iron Man" or "Blade II" or "The Crow"

Maybe even people who like them don't really see much to defend in those movies?

I mean, ask someone what makes Iron Man 1 good and most they'll probably muster is that RDJ is really good and it's just fun, you know.

>
So if you are coming here to defend MoS or BvS as unrivalled cinematic tour de forces, you are only furthering the view that these films suck more ass than Faye Reagan before the overdose - and that you are a delusional headcase who needs to check into a mental health facility.

Actually they're just good movies that don't fit the tastes of mainstream fandom. I think you might be reading too much into someone defending a movie.

I mean, the converse observation can be made from the fact that MoS and BvS piss off nerds to no end. THat might mean it's good, because nerds generally have terrible tastes.

i love how OP keeps getting new (you)'s like >>91530691 (You) and >>91530641 (You) and yet the ip count stays the same, fucking faggots are getting desperate.

>>91530583
I literally mentioned movies with better execution, I made little judgement as to the intention aside from it not being any more ambitious than the execution.

Also I was replying to OP who was raving about the movie's intent, that's why I (briefly) talked about that.

>>91530682
Are YOU literally autistic? There's no new Justice League trailer out this week. Nobody on a seething rage for BvS to warrant defending the movies. And yet this is the sixth thread in the last 24 hours about how Dawn of Justice is some auteur work of art despite being a mainstream capeshit movie made by Warner Bros. "Muh allegory!" "You haters are just reductionist!" I don't give a shit if you love the movie so much, just stop acting like a pretentious little bitch because people thought a movie where Batman hit Superman with a bathroom sink was stupid.

>>91530712
>Actually they're just good movies that don't fit the tastes of mainstream fandom.

Lmao

It barely can be considered a movie with the amount of plot holes and bad moves on it.

Why Snydercucks always come off as people who never watch anything besides blockbusters?

>>91530708
Why isn't it true.
If a people enjoy a source then they have every right to defend it against people who criticise it, just as much as it is done for every other topic.

>>91530588
What unique things does BvS do?

>almost
>mainstream
>past 5 years
Those goalposts are getting pretty wide.

>Like?
The 2 I mentioned in the post you're replying to, retard.

>>91530719
Sorry, I quoted the wrong post.

>>91530682
>?
>People will defend something they like, the same way people will defend MCU films or the X Men films. You get lots of discussion for BvS as there is a lot of low lying themes in the imagery and allegory that it give people things to talk about, Iron Man or the Crow, while both good, are fairly straightforward in their display.

The reason people won't talk about the underlying meanings of MCU movies is that they appeal to people but they're not the kind of stuff you don't want to admit to finding appealing.

For instance, Iron Man is a rather clearly libertarian hero (pre-Civil War at least). The Avengers are a military extension of his megacorporation. But admitting this is verboten.

In Winter Soldier, there's a wonderfully apt part where after SHIELD is dissolved, Maria Hill takes a job in Stark Industries' Human Resources. If that's not a disconcerting image, then what is?

>>91530682

>You get lots of discussion for BvS as there is a lot of low lying themes in the imagery and allegory that it give people things to talk about

You pretentious fuck.

The only people doing that sort of discussion are pseudo-intellectual assholes like you. Nobody else here cares. If it was actually good, you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so much. "Speed Racer" was great, and whenever people shittalk that, I politely ignore them and let them exist in their own ignorance, as any good person would do in the same situation.

But the problem is that you invested so much emotion into the film - a part of your own goddamned identity, really - that the film sucking ass caused a disconnect within you. You can't admit the movie sucked because that would be destroying the part of you invested in the film being good. That would hurt a lot. A whole hell of a lot. So you defend the film with what is practically your life because to do anything else is an admission that you made the wrong goddamned investment.

>>91530712

>Maybe even people who like them don't really see much to defend in those movies?

Because they are generally regarded as good. People do not feel the need to defend things that are regarded as good.

>Actually they're just good movies that don't fit the tastes of mainstream fandom.

No. They are not good movies. And before you go "BILLION DOLLARS AT THE BOX OFFICE": Success is not a metric by which a film's quality can be judged.

>the converse observation can be made from the fact that MoS and BvS piss off nerds to no end. THat might mean it's good

By that logic, the art in "The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl" is the fucking Holy Grail of comic art.

>>91530154
To bad they had Snyder at the helm eh /tv/?

>>91530720
>There's no new Justice League trailer out this week
so?

>And yet this is the sixth thread in the last 24 hours about how Dawn of Justice is some auteur work of art despite being a mainstream capeshit movie made by Warner Bros.
First one i have seen.

>"Muh allegory!" "You haters are just reductionist!"
You're loosing yourself

>stop acting like a pretentious little bitch
Kek, keep crying you little nancy

> a movie where Batman hit Superman with a bathroom sink
You didn't find that funny?

i still haven't seen it

i don't think i'll ever watch it

because i saw the superman reboot and it was awful

i'm calling it the 'superman reboot' because i can't remember the name of the film because it was mindnumbingly dull, apart from when it was insulting to one's intelligence such as having kevin costner die for absolutely no reason at all

son of krypton or something, maybe?

idk, i don't even want to remember

it just made me sad

you burnt me DC

fool me once and all that

oh and the latest avengers thing sucked as well

>>91530733
>It barely can be considered a movie with the amount of plot holes and bad moves on it.

Well this is revealing. We're talking about bad movies, and you define quality by "amount of plot holes and bad moves".

Movies aren't actually judged by amount of plot holes or "bad moves", whatever that means.

>>91530735
>If a people enjoy a source then they have every right to defend it

Which already shows how shit these movies are, if the same 5 people need to defend this shit every day here against everyone. If it is good, it is agreed to be good, otherwise you are nothing more than something in the same level of Steven Universe or Korra = something that generate quick bait discussions.

>>91530375
Is... is that a c-crown?

>>91530733
I am 100% i have a wider knowledge on film then you do, so fuck yourself.

>amount of plot holes and bad moves on it.
Such as? I mean i haven't seen any, but i never saw the theatrical, only directors cut.

>>91530774
>Movies aren't actually judged by amount of plot holes
They aren't? I feel like that's one of the few universal ways people judge movies, the ability of the story to keep its coherency. People may then say it's not much of an issue or explain it away, but no one actually thinks it's not a perfectly legitimate way to judge a story.

>>91530774

>Movies aren't actually judged by amount of plot holes or "bad moves"

But they are judged, in general, on the quality of the story they tell. The narrative in a given film should be coherent and generally plausible for the given universe in which it is set. (Unless you are intentionally screwing with the coherency of a narrative for the sake of effect, in which case you better goddamn well nail the execution.)

>>91530154
>be WB
>have superior capeshit universe
>have suprerior and iconic characters
>even one of them can literally made bil easily if movie is at least above average
>have all the hype
>have tons of fans
>have DCAU and MCU as examples of adaptations
>failed so hard that greatest capeshit team of all time is less wanted than reddit-squad of literally who
>movie about the most famous female superhero is already doomed
>even FUCKING BATMAN is struggles to be created
Is DCEU cursed by Snyder and Goyer or something?

>>91530756
>Because they are generally regarded as good. People do not feel the need to defend things that are regarded as good.

Actually they do. Most people will argue in defence of what they find valuable.

>No. They are not good movies. And before you go "BILLION DOLLARS AT THE BOX OFFICE": Success is not a metric by which a film's quality can be judged.

But that's how you're defining them - the more "well regarded" something is, the more it's quality is unquestionable. The whole argument was that the more people defend a thing, the more likely it is bad.

You're appealing to consensus.

>By that logic, the art in "The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl" is the fucking Holy Grail of comic art.

Obviously I'm not making the assumption that nerds hating something makes it good, since I'm not falling into the same logical pits as you. Nerds hating something generally indicates that something is threatening them. In this case, MoS's and BvS's spectacular pop artistry and their genuine values are what cause nerds to reject them so often.

>>91530792
>>Bruce should have investigated Supes and already know about his mother previously of the battle. This isnt only what happens on the most comics regarding Batman and He discovering Clark identity, this movie more than anything has a reason for him to do this. If he and Lex want to kill Superman, discovering his identity or information about him is primordial, and they had 2 years. Lex managed to do this, so why not Bruce?
>>Why Superman let the criminals that were throwing rockets at Batman go away?
>>Why Luthor used a bomb to explode the congress, that was easily conected to him, that would make him go to jail anyway at the end?
>>Why he made Doomsday, if he had no way to control him? Is he completely insane?
>>Why Superman has halucinations with his dead father telling things that He “didnt knew”? Is he retarded? Schizofrenic?
>>Why you kill the main hero of your universe on the second movie, when he barely had any characterization?
>>Why kill off Clark Kent, the human aspect of Superman?
>> Why Clark has no supporting cast to bounce off? This is fundamental for characterization.
>>Why you think it is a good idea to make a MC with almost no agency?
>>Related to the above, Hack Snyder even say that Clark likes to wear a cape as a kid because of his Kryptonian DNA. Why Nigga cant even choose how to dress like?

>>91530747
It takes the genre in previously unseen territory and imminently sets itself in as a post 9/11 allegory which follows on through for the entirety of the film in only the first five minuets.

>>91530796
>They aren't? I feel like that's one of the few universal ways people judge movies, the ability of the story to keep its coherency. People may then say it's not much of an issue or explain it away, but no one actually thinks it's not a perfectly legitimate way to judge a story.

I generally judge movies by things like direction, script, acting, thematic insight, etc.

Plot holes can be annoying, but there are more important things to worry about.

>>91530755
i cant really comment, i haven't seen many MCU films

>>91530811
>>Why Superman didnt shouted to Batman that his mother was kidnapped, before the battle? Superman could have solved the conflict simply by saying “Bruce, they kidnapped my mom” or even better, “HELP ME!”.
>>Why Batman think that WW is with Superman, if he knows her secret identity and is actually the only one that talked to her on the cast?
>>Did they expected anyone that doesnt read comics to know what the hell was happening on the Knightmare sequence?
>> Doesnt Hacksnyder know that needing flashbacks and dream sequences on the middle of your story is considered one of the major marks of a baddly written and confusing story? Seriously, Snyder should read some Robert Mackee.
>>Why not use the credits to show the JL members, instead of akwardly shoving them in the middle of a dramatic scene?
>>So why didnt they just kill MARTHA the moment batman arrived?
>>Why didn't Superman use his super speed to zip by and save his mom as soon as he learned she was in danger? If Batman could saver her, why not him, that is quickier and more powerful?
>>Why did Lex's goons kidnap a woman in Kansas and take her all the way to the east coast right next to where Superman is forced to fight?
>>Why this movie sells less than Deadpool? Why this movie made less domestically than Deadpool?
>Why they choose to funk over Superman's creator and his family by making MOS?
>Why they keep Snyder around if he has been show to be incompetent and a really stupid person on interviews and directing?

>>91530588
it was better than Suicide squad.

>>91530814
What unseen territory? TDKR had Batman trying to stop a terrorist attack occurring in a metropolitan city. Superman Returns' first action scene involved Superman saving a plane from crashing because Luthor found a new weapon of mass destruction. V for Vendetta was all about a caped vigilante wandering through the ruins of a Bush era society. It's only unseen territory if you've never seen a single DC movie before this.

>>91530506
>You let the action tell the message, you don't have characters literally tell you how they feel

Which it does, mostly. Actually I think it's lack of exposition if one of the reasons many people didn't know what to make of it and interpreted certain aspects of it in a way that went contrary to what it was actually trying to say.

Sure, you might blame that on them ovie not communicating them clearly enough but I didn't feel like it too subtle about them.

>>91530756
>The only people doing that sort of discussion are pseudo-intellectual assholes like you.
so if the only people discussing the film are so called "pseudo-intellectual" fucks like myself, why do you feel the need to get so angry over it, surely you could just dismiss us.

>If it was actually good, you wouldn't feel the need to defend it so much.
Eat shit mate, i'll defend anything i feel has worth.

> "Speed Racer" was great
Yes it was, gorgeous film that was truly underrated. But what you do doesn't bother me in the slightest anyway.

>But the problem is that you invested so much emotion into the film - a part of your own goddamned identity
You are reallllly projecting here now, christ.

You really need to take a break and chill for a bit.

>>91530747
>>91530814

I like it's combination of real-world concerns with pop mythology, giving some insight into our world through the lens of comic book action.

I hate how enclosed and escapist the MCU is, how detached it is. It's hugely ironic because the original appeal of Marvel comics was how relevant they could feel to real-world concerns. Now the MCU is standard escapist fare.

>>91530805
>Is DCEU cursed by Snyder and Goyer or something?

Yes. They opened the door and willingly let Snyder come in and down at the dinner table. And you betta believe, child, that once you let the devil inta your house... the taint of Old Scratch ain't neva gonna wash clean.

>>91530716
We're actually just Ultron. Vision was too pure to venture here.

>>91530818
>direction
Made by the Sucker Punch guy, and basically fell like a bunch of trailer scenes mashed together. He obviously fail at making the audience feel what they want to feel, these threads proove it, which marks him as a bad storyteller.

>script
Made by a guy that admits that he is shit at dialogue, full of plot holes and with character acting randomly for the sake of the plot, and where their intelligence and competency changes from scene to scene.

>acting
Fucking Galgot that can barely speak English or act, along with Cavil that is mediocre st best.

>thematic
Baby's first Whatchmen, while stripping away most of the elements that people care about the characters.

Also Snyder based Batman's characterization in a comic....that he basically misinterpreted, thinking that Batman killed anyone there. It is late thick that a director miss the pint that is explicit in one of the most famous super hero comics the exist, and base it all on this scene. It is a teenager level incompetence.

>>91530777
I rarely even use /co/ anyway, but i can already tell you're just strawmanning in your anger.

>>91530747
>What unique things does BvS do?

It tries to tell a serious story with some social commentary through a medium generally considered low brow without trying desperately to make it feel "grounded" and "realistic" like the Dark Knight movies do.

And I like the Dark Knight movies just fine but what I'm trying to say is, Batman v Superman is more open about being a fantasy without doing that whole "It's okay, you're not actually meant to take it seriously" winking at the audience many other recent movies in the genre do.

MUHTHA

>>91530886
>anger
Are you projecting?

At least we can all agree Suicide Squad is irredeemable garbage right?

>>91530847
Dark Knight was defeatist and V for Vendetta wasted itself on shallow liberal partisanship. MoS and BvS are optimistic in spite of their grimness and really relevant pop works.

>>91530891
How the fuck do you think that this is unique?

Seriously, do you fucks really believe on it? Even Fucking Mad Max and X-men did it.

>>91530154
Press 'X' to "MARSHA!"

>>91530891
Yes. I think we were all waiting for a superhero film to insult our intelligence.

Honestly, even the animated TDKR films did this much better. The fact that they couldn't decide between a JL tie-in and BvS is the reason it suffers. At least Spiderman 3 gave it's characters screen time.

>>91530917
>moving goalposts
>ignoring bad execution and writting that gave this movie the image of being a boring dark movie
>b-but muh intended meaning...

>>91530879
>He obviously fail at making the audience feel what they want to feel, these threads proove it, which marks him as a bad storyteller.

Well your argument is that threads on 4chan are evidence that a director "failed" (in what?), so forgive me if I feel a bit skeptical about it.

>full of plot holes and with character acting randomly for the sake of the plot, and where their intelligence and competency changes from
scene to scene.

Again, nonsense about plot holes which are a minor concern at best.

You're just shotgunnign with his quote-answer-quote-answer format, it's really dumb.

>>91530818
>script

If the script is full of plot holes then it isn't a good script, you twat. You're basically just telling us that you only care if a movie looks good.

>>91530910
You'd be surprised.

>>91530940
>>ignoring bad execution and writting that gave this movie the image of being a boring dark movie

The execution and writing were pretty good though. BvS isn't good as MoS, but I don't really expect to keep that level of quality up.

Why are you so worried about the consensus (i.e. the people who got the image)? In criticism, what ultimately matters if you yourself and how you relate to a work of fiction.

>>91530154
Agree. Years down the road, when/if the capeshit bubble ever pops, this movie will still be something to talk about.

>>91530647
Star Wars made most of its money on merchandising, something wich George Lucas fully owned the rights to
Fox never saw a dime of Star Wars merchandise

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>>91530962
>The execution and writing were pretty good though

>>91530811
>>Bruce should have investigated Supes and already know about his mother previously of the battle. This isnt only what happens on the most comics regarding Batman and He discovering Clark identity, this movie more than anything has a reason for him to do this. If he and Lex want to kill Superman, discovering his identity or information about him is primordial, and they had 2 years. Lex managed to do this, so why not Bruce?
Thats not a plothole, but ok.

>>>Why Superman let the criminals that were throwing rockets at Batman go away?
in the truck? They had already gotten well away by the time supes stopped batman.

>>Why he made Doomsday, if he had no way to control him? Is he completely insane?
In part yes, Luthor assumed he could control it as the beast was in part his child and thought he could control it similar to how his father controlled him.

>>Why Superman has halucinations with his dead father telling things that He “didnt knew”? Is he retarded? Schizofrenic?
Again not a plothole, in fact so far none of these are. But in answer to your question it was just a character moment. Talking to a spirit of the deceased for guidance is hardly anything new in films, or even comics.

>>Why you kill the main hero of your universe on the second movie, when he barely had any characterization?
That simply isnt true.

>>Why kill off Clark Kent, the human aspect of Superman?
I guess we'll find out, though if you think the human element of superman was just clark kent, you ought to read a bit more.

>>>Why you think it is a good idea to make a MC with almost no agency?
Again not true.

>>91530827
are any of these ones plotholes or not? because i'm still waiting so far.

>>91530945
>Well your argument is that threads on 4chan are evidence that a director "failed"

And on every other site, and the fact that it underperformed, made less than Deadpool and Civil War and sold less DVDs than both. If you really can't tell that this movie is considered a joke, with even their own other DC properties making fun of it....you are delusional. This is your reception.

>Again, nonsense about plot holes which are a minor concern at best.

>bad writing is not important
>consistency on characterization and motivations are not important

Am I being baited? I don't believe that you are this pathetic to defend a bad movie.

>>91530917
This movie doesn't know what it wants to be. It's so scattered you could claim it's Christian allegory and you'd have evidence.

Batman represents Jewish power. He tries to kill America/Jesus. Before the final blow is struck Jewman realises they both have the same mother (America) and they both turn their attention to Russia.

>>91530966
I saw it in the $5 bin at a Barnes and Noble.

>>91530947
>If the script is full of plot holes then it isn't a good script, you twat.

Complaining about "plot holes" and characters not acting strategically enough isn't real criticism. I could complain about how a character should've done this or that or how that couldn't happen, but I don't because I'm not an idiot.

>You're basically just telling us that you only care if a movie looks good.

No I'm not.

>>91530962
It didn't even look pretty.

>>91530962
>The execution and writing were pretty good though.

If it was, we wouldn't be here.

>Why are you so worried about the consensus (i.e. the people who got the image)?

Because they are the people who will judge your execution and writing, as well as your ability to convey what you wanted to tell. If you fail to make the audience feel sympathetic for a character that you want to portray as sympatethic, you failed as storyteller.

>>91530286
>"DC is doing just feels like they're playing catch-up"
I hear Mouseketeer shills use this line far too often.

>>91530902
>ITS ONLY FIVE PEOPLE GUYZ
i laughed out loud at that

>>91530989
I personally thought Dawn of Justice was a gay sex allegory, where Batman was the black bull hoping to get his negro hands on Clark. While Clark, a prematurely balding man, is desperately trying to reaffirm his heterosexuality by having Lois as his beard. And yet, the twink Luthor, jealous of these muscular men, decides to unleash his retard stud to rape Clark while Batman can only watch. Meanwhile, this dominatrix named Diana wanders in the background, not sure if her sexual desires because all of these men are too busy raping each other.

>>91530966
Just like assisted suicide. The straws that broke.

>>91530984
>They had already gotten well away by the time supes stopped batman.

Fucking lol

5 minutes away and he is Fucking Superman, he goes to Africa to save Lois, but can't capture criminals 5 seconds away from him.

>>91530987
>
And on every other site, and the fact that it underperformed, made less than Deadpool and Civil War and sold less DVDs than both. If you really can't tell that this movie is considered a joke, with even their own other DC properties making fun of it....you are delusional. This is your reception.

Again, this is a shallow appeal to consensus and profit.

I'm starting to think that nerds don't actually like comics or movies, but more about agreeing on what comics are movies it's permissible to say is good.

>Am I being baited? I don't believe that you are this pathetic to defend a bad movie.

Well as it's so often clear, a lot of people complaining about character or plot consistency don't even know when the characters or plot are being consistent or not.

>>91531005
Because its true.
>o and btw this is a file with all the justice league members and their logos
>what? introducing them? fuck that just put them all in the next movie.

>>91530920
>Even Fucking Mad Max and X-men did it.

Yes and "Fucking Mad Max" is another great series of movies. X-men had their good ones and their bad ones and I appreciate the general message behind them but most of them didn't exactly try to reinvent the wheel. I've yet to see Logan, it looks pretty great.

>>91530928

Afflecks delivery in that scene was a bit unintentionally funny but I thought it brought Batmans character arc in that movie to a turning point that made a lot of sense for him.

>>91531026
>nerd
What makes you think that I'm one more than you?

You are the one defending super hero movies.

>>91531003
>If it was, we wouldn't be here

On 4chan? I assure you, quality is not much of a concern for us. What we want to do is endlessly chew on the gristle.

>>91531018
Just like how the Fast Furious movies are about men raming themselves into eachother, BvS is about two gay men violently assaulting eachother before realizing the person they really love is their mother.

>>91531020
just telling you how it is, and in spite of your insistence, its not a plot hole.

Now if you had a shred of intelligence, maybe you could of made a comment on a actual plothole being supes inconsistent level of ability, as you just evidenced between this and the Africa scenes.

>>91531044
>What makes you think that I'm one more than you?

>You are the one defending super hero movies.

Well you care about plot holes, that's something that gets beaten out of you when you mature as a viewer or reader. Being a nerd is really a stage of arrested development

>>91531018
Now that Clark is too sexually exhausted to perform for a while, Batman recruits his own harem of men to satisfy his desires, with the hapa twink Barry, the Polynesian bara Aquaman, and the sexually confused black boy Cyborg. But still hoping to dominate Batman, Diana joins his harem in the hopes of proving to him that he is indeed straight rather than a luster of gay men.

>>91531026
>why this person adressing the skill of the director and written to cativate the public talking about the public?

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>>91531065
>Well you care about plot holes, that's something that gets beaten out of you when you mature as a viewer or reader.

Proof?

>>91530855
Exposition tells the plot, not the messages.

>>91531074
The porn parody writes it'self.

>>91531137
thats fucking retarded

>>91531093

I can tell you that after making a serious effort to read and watch classics, i can tell you that my interest in plot holes dropped off significantly.

>>91531171
What are your favorite classics?

I find it kind of amazing this film was made too. But not for the same reasons.
Its pretty mind boggling that WB made the pretty reasonable request of Snyder to keep his film under 3 hours long and the cut he gives them is an incoherent mess devoid of even basic shit like scene transitions.
It really goes to show that Snyder never really progressed past music videos. His weaknesses as a director are on full display in BvS. The actors seem left to their own devices, scenes don't flow, motivations are mostly nonexistent and character arcs are paid off incompetently (Martha).
You can call it ambitious but as Jeremy Clarkson would say its Ambitious Rubbish.

>>91531178

Rose of Versailles, the animation for true connoisseurs.

>>91531164
I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's how it is.
Not all dialogue is exposition.

>>91531171
>I lowered my standards thus it is a rule that everyone that cares about plot holes is a nerd

Are you really this stupid? Your argument is that everyone who doesn't share your particular view on plot holes is a nerd...based on you alone? He'll, this is worst than just being anedotical.

>>91531202
good taste nigger

>>91531238
>lowered my standards

Ahahaha, yeah, reading books from the western canon and watching movies from before 2000 really was lowering my standards.

>>91531197
>motivations are mostly nonexistent and character arcs are paid off incompetently (Martha)

I'd disagree with that. Most motivations are pretty clear and so are most character arcs. I absolutely don't see the problem with the Martha scene.

Superman tells Batman to save his mom as a last request, Batman gets a flashback to how his own parents died, he realizes he's become the same as the man who killed his parents and ruined his life, trying to kill a man for selfish reasons and he can see past his hatred of Superman clouding his judgement.

You don't need a degree in literature to get that.

>>91530641

I wouldn't expect the great unwashed like you to get it.

>>91531296
>I'd disagree with that. Most motivations are pretty clear and so are most character arcs. I absolutely don't see the problem with the Martha scene.

The problem people generally have is that Snyder's characters and stories are somewhat oblique, making his movies somewhat alienating. There's a sense of flatness and simplicity that doesn't jive at all with the irony and sarcasm people want.

>>91531274

You still didn't answered my question, nerd. What is the proof that mature people don't care about plot holes and inconsistent characterization?

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remember this is the only way to cure /co/ of the cancer that is OP and his retarded /tv/ shitposting friends

>>91531344
They should just force any live action shit in a general here. One for DC and one for marvel.

Let them rot there.

>>91531296
I get all that but its hard to buy Batman having a change of heart when he's wantonly murdered dozens of people up to this point, and will continue to do so in the next scene. Didnt all those guys have mommies too?
It'd work better I think if he really didn't want to kill anybody, and was hinging his decision on Superman not being human or like him so killing him wouldn't count. But they don't really do that?

>>91531335
Caring too much about plot holes is immature. A mature person doesn't care about them except for recognizing them, maybe having a laugh, and then moving on.

>>91531457
So finding flaws in a movie is immature, but loving it unconditionally is what a real big boy adult would do right?

>>91531344
Offended much? it's not DC's fault that /tv/ if filled with autistic closet homos and that marvel hasn't made a single good book in a decade.

>>91531457
Okay....do you have anything to back it up apart from your uninportant opinion?

>>91531164
Exposition is used to relay world and plot information.

>>91530154

Ang Lee's fucking Hulk movie was more ambitious than this piece of shit. He was honestly put down for trying to make an indie art house film out of the goddamn Hulk.

>>91531479
>So finding flaws in a movie is immature, but loving it unconditionally is what a real big boy adult would do right?

You're putting value in the concept of plot holes in the first place, when more or less anything can be stretched into a plot hole.


>>91531487

>Okay....do you have anything to back it up apart from your uninportant opinion?

Serious critics don't whine about plot holes.

Let me turn the question around: why do you think complaining about plot holes is a mature thing to do? You can say that everyone does it, but that doesn't exactly make it a good and mature thing to do.

>>91530891
>with some social commentary

What I got from BvS is that everyone's an asshole.

And in the last five minutes Batman has a change of heart despite barely knowing Superman and spending most of the movie trying to kill him.

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never forget

>>91531551
and yet apparenlt its the only way to get plot across

>>91530154
It doesn't do anything the comics and cartoons hadn't done better years ago. Between that and an entire subplot dedicated to the transparent marketing of DC's entire slate of movies for the next five years, it all adds up to a non-starter.

>b-but Marvel does stuff like that too!
Yeah, and it's amazing that nobody has learned since Iron Man 2.

>>91531612
You were that autist who created the George Lucas vs Zack Snyder: Kurosawa inspiration thread yesterday weren't you?

>>91531704
They were so scared of using what Marvel did right, like plugging the future movies at the end credits, they hamfisted it as email attachments.
And then they had to fix that mistake by doing it in Suicide Squad instead, which also kind of negated the whole point of the Suicide Squad?
I don't know that anyone can salvage the mess they created, lots of it is already set in stone like dead CIA agent Jimmy Olsen. And Pa Kent saying let people die, and something about horses drowning. Oh and Lex Luthor knows all their identities.

>>91531332
And yet they enjoy Nolan's trilogy. The very trilogy that BvS was trying to emulate.

BvS isn't deep, it isn't well made from storytelling standpoint, it has the occasional well framed shot, Affleck carries the entire thing, it was a blatant attempt to cash in on the superhero fad as much as Suicide Squad. Frankly, next to no cape movie should be considered a film, be they DC or Marvel. No one here will shut the fuck up about it, and chances are things will be the same with WW/JL. BvS, was shit in my opinion, and I say that as a guy who thinks MoS gets too much criticism. We've been over this goddamn movie with a fine tooth comb, there's nothing left to discuss, move on

>>91531561

Yes. and that one's criminally underrated too.

>>91531457
Well, it depends what you mean by classics. I won't be looking for plot consistency in poetic absurdism but plays need to be well structured to work visually, as do films.

>>91531612
Plot holes are a valid criticism when they're so ubiquitous. This isn't like the movie Prometheus where the characters figured out shit they had no direct way of knowing, entire fundamental building blocks of the plot in BvS where unsound in terms of any plausible interpretation. The movie was literally just a compilation of stand-alone scenes Snyder thought would look cool with no consideration for any larger plot or story then tied them all together after the fact using only the utmost aped plot elements to create the illusion of it being a movie.

>>91531692
Do you even know what plot is? It's simply the string of events that drive the story. Exposition is one of the worst ways to relay plot information because it wastes the potential of such a visual medium. If you have to hijack characters to tell people things then you suck. It shows a lack of directorial apptitude. It's like you can't adapt the screenplay to suit the film.

>>91531906
lmao

You have anythign to back that up?

>>91532027
Yeah, the movie itself: Batman vs Superman.

>>91532083
weak

You could try to shitpost better.

>>91532118
Said the tripfag

>>91532336
nice argument. I see how you have failed to give any examples for supporting your agrument.

>>91530286
Avengers may have been ambitious as far as securing all of those actor's contracts, but as a film it's fluffy bullshit.

>>91530288
Uh.. no he/she is not

>>91532390
My example is the movie Batman vs Superman.

>>91530583
A lot of brilliant films were met with rancor at first. It's what dumb people do when they can't understand something.. shake their fists at the sky.. I am not surprised mass audiences didn't like it.. The best things are rarely the most popular. That's the nature of appealing to the lowest common denominator. What's shocking is that people can't approach this movie subjectively, nor question why they would hate something that's also extremely original in concept and dense in plotting. That should be your first clue that you are the idiot, not the extremely talented people who spent 3 years making this movie.

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>>91532481
Let me break it down for you.

Give me some examples from the movie which support your argument here:

>>91531906

>>91530566
Hahah implying 30 yrs old + people don't absolutely infest this board. they made it what it is retard, for better or worse (hint: there is no better when it comes to this rancid shit site)

>>91530698
You are just too used to spoon fed capeshit that you have no choice but to pout about it not being some grinning fucking world's finest cheese-fest.. BvS will get it's due some day. I've been on the ground floor of countless derided movies that become cult classics and I tend to know it when I see it. People are slow.

>>91532511
Yeah, The Last Airbender; Green Lantern and DBZ Evolution will also be vindicated in the future! lol

More often than not, shit movies are seem as shit movies, and that's it.

>>91532530
Watch the movie.

>>91532567
>>>/reddit/

>>91532612
I already have

>>91530154
>This is probably one of the most ambitious superhero movies ever made and has more artistic merit to it than the average action movie.

Logan was more ambitious and had way more artistic merit than BVS. It also had just flat out better performances.

>>91532596
Yeah just give it 30 years to find out if you're right or not.

>>91532511
You're talking about a mainstream superhero movie made by Warner Bros and a director known for doing blockbusters like 300 and Dawn of the Dead. Not some auteur indie film, you fucking autist.

>>91532612
I watched it, and it was shit.

>>91530154
>artistic
only to the uninitiated.

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>>91532620

>>91530756
You sound like a real asshole. bottom line is this: DC characters are far more beloved and therefore have way more at stake. People hate BvS because they fucking love the characters and need it to be perfect. Marvel characters just don't have the cultural relevence/historical significance so people will give those characters and movies all sorts of passes. The prestigious nature of DC makes people have WAYYYY higher standards. This is exactly why people hate BvS so much. If the movie starred some of Marvel's D-list crap-tier rip off heroes, people would be calling it a masterpiece. As it stands, DC's heroes are closer to people's hearts, therefore given no leeway in terms of film adaptations. So fuck off you misguided Disney douche.

>>91532638
Sorry, not OP, but I'll have to disagree that Logan was more ambitious.

Logan was about Wolverine getting old and dying, BvS was about Superman fighting Batman, while setting up the Justice League, while deconstructing the messiah mythos, while updating the characters for a new generation, while playing with symmetrical film making.

It might not have been successful at all those, but it was a lot more ambitious.

>>91532638
Yeah, why not use Logan to talk shit about the MCU? Logan was an actually good movie.

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>>91532690

>>91532704
Actually killing off Wolverine after a 17-year run is more ambitious than setting up the backstory for 5 sequels, m8.

Icarus was also ambitious. Doesn't mean you should emulate him or even that he was particularly smart.

>>91532705
Because it's not about shit talking the mcu, is to justify a bad movie that had visuals you liked.

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>Ambitious
>It's the same blue filter dark action superhero movie DC has been cranking out for the last decade or so

Capeshit fans are fucking retarded, i swear.

>>91532685
/co/ is just my side ho

>>91530774
I mean, you are obviously entitled to like what you like but there are literally zero plot holes in BvS.. that's just the truth.. Feel free to try and stump me, I've never had trouble explaining supposed 'plot holes'

>>91530733
>I mean, you are obviously entitled to like what you like but there are literally zero plot holes in BvS.. that's just the truth.. Feel free to try and stump me, I've never had trouble explaining supposed 'plot holes'
Meant for this guy. sorry.. Also- there's a huge flaw in your logic there, dope. Snyder fans are by and large the opposite of what you describe.. They are not the blockbuster loving idiots you wish they were.

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>>91532690
>DC characters are far more beloved

>>91532704
>while updating the characters for a new generation

But comics, cartoon and games and even movies already did it? And better?

>>91532849
>Snyder fans are by and large the opposite of what you describe..

Sorry, but they are. The worst kind to be honest, the kind that pretend to be better than it is without being able to back it up. Just look at the thread for Mr "plot holes and consistency doesn't matter because I said!"

>>91532816
It's not that there are zero plot holes, or that you explain them. It's that you just go "nope doesn't count" like a machine.

I've get to hear a good explanation from this flick's defenders as to why Batman is so ignorant of pretty much everything in the movie.

Much less why if Superman is so concerned Batman is a dangerous psychotic why he's going to not take him in; just rip off the roof of his car, issue a threat to the guy he thinks is unhinged, and then flies off.

>>91532638

Might be, haven't seen it yet.

>>91530154
I don't think anyone would argue that the DCEU so far (excluding SS) is more ambitious than say, the MCU.

The unfortunate thing is the execution is just awful. It's cool to be ambitious, but you have to deliver on that emotional maturity or everything just comes off even worse than if you'd aimed lower and still failed.

So props to WB for trying, but they don't get a cookie just for effort.

>>91530506
Just quoting this post to say that Demolition Man is fucking great and Wesley Snipes was a better Joker than Leto will ever be

>It's a "/co/ asserts without proof to intervalidate opinions based on nothing" episode

They've been showing this everyday for a couple of years now.

>>91533422
It's funny how mad you are and how much you needs validation.

>91533422
>It's a "tripfag proves he's a fucking retard" episode

>>91533422
Assertions like "BvS was good?"
Because that's what we've been getting multiple times a day for a year.

>>91533501
>>91533516
okay

>>91533521
Nah, the opposite.

Has Superman ever had moments where he clearly communicated to the populace what he's about in these films?

We've seen sparks of it like his argument with Perry but that was poorly done since nobody in production understands how a Newspaper works or it didn't give a better segue.

Clark covering a Knights and Meteors game (Did they even name a Metropolis team in the movie?) And on his way back he sees Batman being a crazy bastard branding someone. Whomever he's with be it Lois or Jimmy (RIP) warns him off tangling with him. Which leads to the Perry conversation and then the confrontation.

>>91532601
>Yeah, The Last Airbender; Green Lantern and DBZ Evolution will also be vindicated in the future!
None of those are comparable to BvS, since these movies have actual problems rather than "not muh".

>>91533845
People could forgive Supes and Batman for not being their typical iconic selves if the movies were actually good.

BvS was just a Bad movie.

>>91534133
This.

People point "not muh" when what they showed us just didn't worked.

People like Ledger's Joker even if he is different, same goes to BATS Mr.Freeze, for Xmovies's Wolverine, for MCU's Loki and so on.

If you want to be different? Go on, try to make your own take, just know that it us YOUR WORK to be able to cativate the public and convince them that these versions of the characters are entertaining and interesting as "muh". And the more different you make them, the hardest it will be and the more responsibility you have. If it blows up in your face? Your fault.

It worked and it failed multiple times in the past, and in this case it failed. Blaming the audience is ridiculous, it's like Hillary's campaign insulting potential voters instead of looking at the problems of the campaign.

>>91534249
>>91534133
>I don't like it hence it is bad!

And yet again, no reasons were given.

>>91534283
It's made by a guy that admits that he is shit at dialogue, full of plot holes and with character acting randomly for the sake of the plot, and where their intelligence and competency changes from scene to scene.

>>91534283
People didn't like it, this is a fact. Sharp theater attendance drop offs, scathing critic reviews and WB citing it as under performing all support the fact that the movie was lacking.

But by all means, continue making the movie going public the enemy here, clearly it's their fault for not recognizing the true greatness of piss jars.

>>91534333
Can you point out the flaws in the film instead of spewing bs?

>>91534335
>other people didn't like it!
wew lad

>>91534283
>>91534414

Then what qualifies something as "good"? if all other anecdotal and empirical evidence suggests it wasn't? You? Your opinion? You've come into this thread to tell everyone who thinks BvS is shit that they're wrong and your proof is that you disagree?

Listen, your Kurosawa Lucas vs Snyder thread didn't gain traction and neither will this thread. You're just a lonely angry boy upset that people don't like a movie that appeals to mental midgits easily wowed by superficial symbolism and garish visuals.

>>91530154
It's almost cute how you dceu-fags think this empty soul-less trash has any artistic or intellectual merit at all

>>91534414
Yet you've offered nothing anymore specific as to why the movie is good, you just keep making vaguer statements than those who you dismiss while constantly trying to turn burden of proof on the other party.

Give it up kiddo, you're not converting anyone, this whole thread is just an exercise you trying to come to terms with your denial and frustration.

"D'ya know the sound a horse makes when it drowns in a pissing jar Clark?..."

>>91534447
Are you all mentally retarded or something? I'm asking you to point out specific flaws in the film and all you can do is insult me and quote others' opinion on the film as "proof" that is somehow bad.

>You've come into this thread to tell everyone who thinks BvS is shit that they're wrong and your proof is that you disagree?

Nah, you're here to state the opposite using the sam emethod you think I use.

Protip: I'd make an argument if you had one first, because you have a problem with it, not I.
>Listen, your Kurosawa Lucas vs Snyder thread didn't gain traction and neither will this thread.

What thread?

>You're just a lonely angry boy upset that people don't like a movie that appeals to mental midgits easily wowed by superficial symbolism and garish visuals.

oh boy

>>91534480
>Yet you've offered nothing anymore specific as to why the movie is good,

in response ot what? should I write everythign that was good in it? I'm not going to do that. I can, however, answer your shitty "criticisms", and better ones, if you provide them (which no one ITT seems to be capable of),

> you just keep making vaguer statements than those who you dismiss while constantly trying to turn burden of proof on the other party.

There should be some basis for an argument first to have one. You saying "I don't like this!!" isn't an argument.

>Give it up kiddo, you're not converting anyone, this whole thread is just an exercise you trying to come to terms with your denial and frustration.

I don't give ashit about "converting" anyone. There's nothing to convert to.

>>91534536
So you admit you have no argument defending this disappointing film outside of the pretentious claim that 30 years from now people will see it as for the juvenile greatness that it truly is?

What is your motivation for responding to this?

>>91530154

> Themes > and > ambition > don't >excuse >poor > storytelling > and >characterization

>>91534570
>So you admit you have no argument defending this disappointing film outside of the pretentious claim that 30 years from now people will see it as for the juvenile greatness that it truly is?
literally where did I say that?
>What is your motivation for responding to this?
I like the movie and think you're wrong.

>>91534592
>poor storytelling
>poor characterization
>BvS
>MoS
choose one

>>91534626
Prove BvS and MoS have good characterization and story telling then.

>>91534626
Maybe you have bad taste in movies? Did you ever consider that?

It's kind of narcissistic for you to assume that you liking something everyone else hates means it's too high brow for them.

>>91534626
> I like it hence it is good!

And yet again, no reasons were given.

>>91534449

I'm not a DCU fag. I will openly say that Suicide Squad was a shit movie with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Just as I'll say that BvS is a good one. I like the movie, not the franchise.

>>91534626
I think you're projecting your own limited spectrum of thinking onto others and assuming far too much about why people don't like something based on your own superficial preferences.

>>91534732
And I bet you think Cloud Atlas is a work of art too right?

Are you all mentally slow? Can you provide concrete exmples where the movie was wrong?

>>91534673
There are no plot holes.
Characters are consistent and have clear goals.
It has good dialogue.
The story is amazing and comes together as a whole.

>>91534692
>everything is subjective!!

>>91534717
You first.

>>91534762
no.

>>91534784

It had its moments.

>>91534813
> This things are they way I say they are because I say so.

And again, no reasons are given.

At least people calling the movie shit have anecdotal and peripheral evidence to support their arguments. You don't even have that.

>>91534813
Are you mentally slow? Can you provide concrete examples where the movie was good?

>>91530154
215 post, Snyder created cult movies. I love how manchildren and Disney shills still prefer to talk about this movies over doctor strange.

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>>91534902
I love how manchildren and DCEU shills still make these threads to try and rationalize their odd Stockholm syndrome relationship with Zack Snyder.

>>91534813
>Characters are consistent
Provide a good explanation as to why Superman can appear just at the last second to save Lois twice in the movie, while he lets Jimmy Olsen get shot in the head.

>>91532720
thats years old

>>91534902
> Keeps spamming "why don't u kidz liek BvS?" threads.
> Gets told he's stupid and the movie sucks.
> "Hurr you guys can't stop talking about this movie so you must secretly like it."

>>91534974
Yes, three of them.

>>91534894

It managed to convey a lot of its themes through visual alones, it has a unique stylistic approach to its genre that lends it a sense of gravity most superhero movies don't have, it tells an engaging story with themes that are very relevant to our time, it portrays some extremely famous characters with a subversive edge when it could have just played it safe...

>>91534902
You mean like how people still talk about Tommy Wisseau's The Room?

Aiming for the stars and not even being able to get off the ground does not deserve praise. A lot of people try and have good intentions, thats not worth anything.

>>91535055
Again, no examples were given.

>>91535055
More vague generalizations and baseless claims.

Don't you have any actual examples?

>>91534874
>>91534894

What do you want me to do, write a book explainign every scene? Either specify something or don't blame me.

You're asking me a wide question, I'll give you an appropriate answer. I'm not going to write paragraphs for single-line comments.

>>91534949
Why would he save a no-name photographer?

>>91535148
>Why would Superman save someone?
gg no re

>>91530154

It's visually bland. Other than the mesh in Superman's costume, literally everything else in the movie is boring to look at. Batman in a trenchcoat and goggles is neat in a silly way, but Affleck looks (and moves) like a turd made of muscles so it's bland as fuck to look at, like the rest of the movie.

>>91535148
You demanded the same of others, why should this not apply to you?

>>91535191
Thousands of people die from accidents everyday, he doesn't have to save them.

Plus, going after a no-name photographer jeopardises Lois' safety. Why should he value some other guy's life over the life of the woman he loves? There is no reason to.

>>91535148
You're the one arguing the unpopular opinion, burden of proof lies on you.

>>91535274
You're on th enegative side of the argument, you shoudl provide flaws. Or at least provide ocntext. Just saying "Lol it is bad!" is not an argument.

And I'm not oging to write paragraphs for a single line comment. You need to state a scene or something.

>>91535281
Doesn't sound like very good writing to me.

The real problem here isn't why Superman chose to do or not do something, but rather why did the director felt the need to create that situation for that character in the first place?

>>91530375
>Rango the Chamaleon

animated shit based on a original property is hardly a risk

>>91535106
>>91535144


Then let me give you some:

I liked how it was never outright stated that Batman went over the edge after Robin was murdered. We can insinuate as much from seeing Robins costume in the Batcave. How it never outright states just how similar Bruce Wayne and Lex Luthor are and what dinstinguishes them are just a few decisions. Or Supermans role. Many people still seem to think he's a jesus analogy. but that's the joke, he isn't jesus but most people in his world think he is and that's the source of his inner conflict. He's a man expected to be a god. He's not Jesus, he's Brian.

In terms of themes? Well, one that seemed to go over everyones head is that of xenophobia which ties very nicely into the current rise of neofascism.We see people in front of the congressional hearings actually calling Superman an "illegal alien". The only way to make it more blatant is if they held a sign saying "rapefugeeman not welcome". Also ties nicely into Lex Luthors storyline: The irrational xenophobia of an immoral businessman leads him to create an uncontrollable monster threatening to wipe out humanity. I can't believe so many people missed that!

Or just take the general themes about perception and accountability. It's not only about what it means to be a hero but also to be viewed as a hero. How the self interest of the powerful can manipulate the public to be unable to distinguish between good and evil.

Again, I'm not saying it's the only movie or even the best movie to touch upon these themes, far from it, but for something that you'd expect to be a simple popcorn movie it's pretty daring.

>>91535296
lmao
read
>>91535324


>>91535336
>Doesn't sound like very good writing to me.
why? What possible reason doe she have to save some reporter (CIA) instead of Lois?

>The real problem here isn't why Superman chose to do or not do something, but rather why did the director felt the need to create that situation for that character in the first place?

the fuck? Do you think there is some kind of divide between what the story can convey and what it is? How do you judge movies then, palm-reading?

>>91535324
That's not how burden of proof works.

Critics hated the movie
Audiences hated the movie
The Studio said it underperformed

You're the one claiming the contrary when all evidence and popular opinion points the other direction. If you can't even give a single example of what was so good about the movie then odds are it just wasn't that good and truthfully you only think it's cool the same way a 12 year old who likes guns and explosions would. Then again I don't think many kids thought this movie was very cool.

>>91535395
Doesn't matter what other people think about it.

You've been asserting that it's shit without any proof, and I asked you to provide some, and you've been replying with the equivalent of "no u" of rthe last hour.

>>91535377
So you basically took hook line and sinker the whole superficial and shallow themes that Snyder utilized in the utmost pedestrian manner possible?

> but for something that you'd expect to be a simple popcorn movie it's pretty daring.

No, it really isn't.

>>91530917
>Dark Knight was defeatist
It would have been if the passengers of the boat had pressed the button. It's dark but optimistic, that's why Gordon's last dialogue and the music giving a hopeful tone to the end.

>>91535435
> It doesn't matter what other people think.

Then why are you even posting in this thread? Clearly you care what other people think.

>>91535435
You've been asserting that it's good without any proof, and I asked you to provide some, and you've been replying with the equivalent of "no u" for the last hour.

>>91535464
and yet everything went to shit

>>91535487
I like talking about thinkgs I liek, and sometimes I'm intrigued why people hate them. If I get a proper answer, I'll go.

>>91535515
> I like talking about thinkgs I liek, and sometimes I'm intrigued why people hate them. If I get a proper answer, I'll go.

Then you obviously care what other people think and therefor your above statement is proven to be a lie.

>>91535515
> "Who cares what other people think"
> "I like talking and what to know what other people think"

Okay.

Other People think that BvS is shit, it's a messy juvenile attempt at greater scale and visual symbolism and this is corroborated by numerous critic reviews, theater attendance drop-offs and WB's disappointment with the film.

The only reason you create these threads is because of your insecurity regarding your own opinion to the contrary and hope that by getting the last word in you'll somehow validate your unpopular belief that cinematic garbage is an unpolished diamond.

>>91535457

What would have been a better way or better themes to utilize in that specific type of movie?

I felt that they were handled as well as could be expected. If it was, I dunno, some independent movie by Denis Villeneuve or Giorgos Lanthimos I might have criticized it for being too on the nose but it's a summer superhero blockbuster, most of them deliver much less.

>>91535608
>>91535538
>you care
no, but your dogged refusal to accept the things I like makes me think that you maybe have a different POV.

>insecurity
nope, just curious. I think BvS and MoS are amazing films.

SS was shit, though.

>>91535652
The themes were typical of what an amateur would try to superimpose in a film to give it artificial depth or meaning. You had literally no build up to most of the themes and narratives used in BvS and were just forced on the story via exposition reducing the characters in the film to little more than plot vehicles acting solely to progress from one scene to another.

It was a blatant ham-fisted attempt at doing everything after the fact for the sake of itself.

>>91530154
There is as much artistic merit in this pile of crap as as IM2. It's just an overlong setup movie.

>>91535731
> I think BvS and MoS are amazing films.

Yet you can't even offer a single reason why, but still expect others to write you essays on why they and everyone else on Earth didn't like them.

Good for you, now fuck off.

>>91530154
Go away, Zack

>>91535800
IM2 is at least cozy as fuck to watch though, this... not so much.

>>91535807
wew

>>91535779
>characters have clear moralities
>they have clear goals
>the story serves a point
so you dislike all of this?

>muh amateur
not an argument

>for its own sake
so a movie should not be a movie?

>>91535865
> this entire post

Not an argument.

>>91535896
I asked you two questions.

>>91535865
> deflection, ad hominem, projection

You claim to want to have an open discourse about why people don't like the movies you do, but all you do in return is respond immaturely deflecting whatever you can't counter and projecting your own logical fallacies onto everything else.

You're just a high functioning autist upset that his opinion isn't the popular one and this thread is your attempt at somehow making that right in your head.

>>91535939
Still not an argument.

>>91535779

See, I'd argue most of these themes grew very naturally from the place these characters occupy in pop culture. Superman' story was always an immigrants story. Batman's story always was that of a man taking justice into his own hands with little accountablity. Lex Luthor always was a manipulative oligarch unwilling to accept power greater than his own.

As many liberties as it takes with some of them they are very much grounded in previous portrayals of these characters and the archetypes they embody. And, sure, it did expect the viewer to be somewhat familiar with them and you might call that a lack of build up but would you have really rather had them go through everyones origins story again when they could reasonably assume most viewers to have seen it multiple times already?

http://collider.com/jeremy-irons-batman-v-superman-reviews/

Even Jeremy Irons hated the movie.

>>91530154
>While it's flawed
Wrong. BvS has no flaws.

>>91535980
>>91535954
nice ad hom and projection.

>>91536034
Yes it does, most of them relating to the attempts of connecting it to a larger franchise. While I actually thought that there was a purpose to those little recordings of the other members of the Justice League beyond advertising their movies it came at a point where it didn't to the pacing any good, there should have been more scenes of Clark Kent interacting with people who aren't Lois and that little scene with the Flash trying to talk to Bruce from the future and Lex seeing a hologram of what I'm sure is gonna be someone familiar to people who read the comics towards the end hurt its integrity as a standalone movie.

Again, I like it a lot but it's not without flaws.

>>91535281
An american citizen getting shot in the head by terrorists isn't an "accident."
>Plus, going after a no-name photographer jeopardises Lois' safety.
Wow, Superman sure sounds like a weak peice of shit if he can't save everyone in that situation.
Oh wait, it's because the writing is utter shit.

>>91536196
>An american citizen getting shot in the head by terrorists isn't an "accident."
not the point. He doesn't have to save evryone, even if he can. Lois is there for an interview and had nothing to do with the CIA. This is the same government that grudgingly accepted him and still nuked his ass.

He owes them nothing.

>he should save everyone!!
there is no reason to. People make mistakes, and if he saves them regardless, he is wrong. You don't save a serial killer from death row for the "sanctity of life".

>save that photographer!

It's a government op, and possibly very shady. Superman only intervened when they were about to bomb the compound. He is on thin ice with the government already, he doesn't have to make the situation worse by saving people who'd despise him if he did.

>>91536329

>>91536329
Now, let me get this straight, so Superman, who has been shown PLENTY of times to care for others, decides to not save Jimmy because he's too worried about Lois. You know what would have been better? To show Lois upset at Super because he hadn't come at time, this would have proved everyone can be upset at Superman for logical reasons, instead, you quickly go for romance shit. Or, make it better, go for a better scenario where Super DOES SAVE EVERYONE, or if you really do feel the scene is flawed, not use it.

The big issue is that the exact scene feels quickly done, and it showcases Superman and his universe as complete hypocrites.

>>91536455
Are you dense? Why'd you gooss over the government angle?

>>91531027
No they aren't. And as much as everyone says they all need to have solo films, notice, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM.

How are they playing catch up when they're literally going about it completely differently? The only people that think they are playing catch up are the people that keep insisting they need solo films.

>>91536508
*gloss

>this got 260 replies

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>>91530154

>>91536622

I absolutely mean it.

>>91536329
>he doesn't have to make the situation worse by saving people who'd despise him if he did.

Wow this Superman is pretty shit at being a hero. Is this why he let the guy fire rockets in Metropolis too right?

>>91532720
Licensed products include more than just toys, just saying.

>>91531197
Wasn't the 3 hour cut the original cut? But WB got scared people weren't going to sit for a 3 hour movie and cut it down? Maybe I'm miss remembering this info

>>91530154
I think the ultimate cut communicated everything pretty well, it was more understandable the first time than 2001.

>>91541526
The ultimate cut was also shit, don't kid yourself.

Are you trying to say that this movie is pure kino?.

>>91535377
>Many people still seem to think he's a jesus analogy. but that's the joke, he isn't jesus but most people in his world think he is and that's the source of his inner conflict. He's a man expected to be a god. He's not Jesus, he's Brian.
So what's with all the austerity?

wanna know how i know you're lying?

>>91532995

>you've been bad, so you're going off with a warning

it's superhero habit. i don't gotta explain shit.

>>91544239
>it's superhero habit.
So's putting bad guys in jail.
And these aren't typical superheroes they're supposedly elevating the genre. You don't have to explain shit, no, because we all know you can't beyond going "no u" over and over.

>>91533209

the directors have been ambitious.
those who work on this movie are ambitious.

WB just sees it and goes "this is too ambitious"

they can have a dark knight universe. Rises may have failed to impress but it was still a good movie in its own right, better than most marvel schlock.

Man of Steel tried to Nolanize superman... but people weren't having it. people don't want a day one, untested superman who doesn't know he's superman. they want John Cena apparently.

>>91544281

i'm not the (you) you think i am. i'm just cracking jokes

>>91532911
They did, but it was a completely different take on both characters, on top of all the other things mentioned.

Lack of ambition was one a problem with this movie.

>>91544394
"I was only pretending to be retarded bro!"

>>91544360
>Rises may have failed to impress but it was still a good movie in its own right
Not really. Even if you overlook the fact that it kind of invalidates the last two movies, it repeats its narrative arc twice for no good reason.

>>91544419
>They did, but it was a completely different take on both characters
Not really.
"What if Superman had flaws and angst and wasn't perfect" was already done with Smallville, the DCAU, hell, even Lois and Clark. We've GOTTEN what you guys are terming "humanized" superman already. The public is already familiar with ti and is okay with it.

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>>91544420

>posts on 4chan.
>doesn't know anonymity
>doesn't know the meme

welp i'm done here. here's your (You).

>>91544360

>WB just sees it and goes "this is too ambitious"

Or maybe Snyder doesn't need to make BvS as long as Heat to get his points across.

>but people weren't having it. people don't want a day one, untested superman who doesn't know he's superman. they want John Cena apparently.

Bullshit. Part of the reason Batman Begins works is taht it devotes almost half of its film to exploring Bruce as a person and his journey in the league. That first act of Begins is fantastic and pretty much soley devoted to giving us a layered character who we can be interested in.

MoS is a Jor-El and Lois Lane movie that technically stars Superman. Like 80% of hsi characterisation comes from his kid flashbacks that are randomly inserted into the movie, in the modern day he's just a generic hunk with daddy issues. The closest thing he gets to a meaningful interaction in modern day is the scenes in Zod's ship, but that's a comparatively tiny part of the film.

You can claim he's insecure and untested all you want, that doesn't mean I give a shit about him.

I really wouldn't care that people liked these movies if they didn't try to pretend that nothing was going wrong behind WB's doors. Like the DCEU is still being carefully crafted and director driven and all that.

I bet people don't even remember JL2 got pushed back even further and nobody even knows when that's coming out anymore

>>91536560
>And as much as everyone says they all need to have solo films, notice, THEY DON'T HAVE THEM.
But they are planned to.

Or at least they did. Cyborg went bye-bye and nobody knows when the fuck Flash is happening

>>91530977
Does he still own those rights, or did he sell those to Disney too?

>>91530154
I agree. Didn't read the thread though. /co/ calls fucking Gods and Monsters edgy.

>>91535340
>original IP
>not a musical
>animals aren't cutesy
>not Disney
>plot is fairly serious
>animated
a far bigger risk than a movie with two of the biggest IPs in the world

also a far better movie

>>91535340
>based on a original property
That alone is a risk.

>>91533261

>Wesley Snipes was a better Joker than Leto will ever be

MOTHER. FUCKING. *THIS.*