Serious question, why is DC head and shoulders above Marvel in

>>91377225
DC is sure getting on that little girl market with Superhero girls and this movie.

Why doesn't Marvel cater to the little girls market outside clothing? Is it because of the Disney Princesses?

>>91377225
They get people who have experience in the industry or people from there school

>>91377317
>Is it because of the Disney Princesses?

I don't think that's really it. It's not as if Disney puts rules against Star Wars competing with the MCU even though they have the same target demographic. It's probably just incompetence.

Marvel has fewer good writers right now.

That's literally it.

There was a mass exodus of good writers after Secret Wars, and all the new talent they've tried to get haven't worked out.

They put their two biggest writers front and center, Waid and Bendis. Now, we know Bendis is shitty, but he is historically acclaimed and supposedly his name sells, and Waid is legendary in this industry.

Unfortunately for Marvel readers are sick of Bendis' crappy events and Waid lost his goddamn mind.

That's all there is to it. There's a huge number of reasons their talent pool is in the state it's currently in, but as for why the books aren't good, it's simply that they don't have the right creators or the right editors.

>>91377317
Part of it may be that because of the family-friendly nature of the MCU, Marvel's brand already appeals to some girls too.

>>91377225
Name one time when Marvel has been better than DC after like, 1960.

>>91377225
>Serious question, why is DC head and shoulders above Marvel in terms of Comicbook quality right now?

They doubled-down on what works.

>Was the New 52 and Rebirth that good at revitalizing it?

New 52, yes and no. It made great money. Mixed critical response.
Rebirth, yes. And it's also making great money.

>Does Marvel need to start over too?

No, they just need to produce fewer, better books. Seriously, they have an excess of unfocused titles.

>>91377225
Marvel puts their diversity quota over quality writers and stories, giving untrained writers opportunities based on them being female or minority (see: the new America Chavez series). These people have a tendency to focus on their characters being gay/female/minority/whatever instead of the actual interesting parts of their character. They've also lost a good deal of talent, leaving people like Bendis and Slott as some of the only old hands there.

The constant events have also done real damage, especially when people's favorite characters constantly get pulled into to them, whereas if the events were their own thing then people who aren't interested in them could safely ignore it. The fact that the events themselves are usually insane gibberish as far as story quality doesn't help.

On the other hand, DC benefited from a surprisingly strong start with Rebirth and good word of mouth, as well as letting their characters just do their own thing for a while.

>>91377687
Why did so many good writers leave after secret wars?

>>91377721
Turns out they were skrulls

>>91377721

DC poached people for Rebirth.

Image is offering a lot of great deals too. Marvel is fishing for indie writers to very mixed success.

G. Willow Wilson was a great catch for Ms. Marvel. Tom King left for DC after the Vision miniseries was done. And they gave him fucking Batman.

But DC even got Warren Ellis to do Wild Storm, something he said for years was never going to happen. Jim Lee personally asked him to do it.

>>91377704
always

>>91377317
>Is it because of the Disney Princesses?

Yes, I'm going to disagree with >>91377572 and say that Disney bought Marvel because they needed something to fill in the gap in their demographic chain(namely they need something for teenage boys to thirty year old men). The MCU is a money spinner right now but everyone knows that eventually it will dry up(could be in five years, could be in twenty) but Disney will always have the toys, cartoons, games and movies from Marvel Characters to sell to teenage boys and men in their twenties.

Disney have a cradle to grave attitude towards their markets, they want you to have something at all ages that they can sell and use that nostalgia to sell it to you again when you have kids. So Princesses sell movies to girls and mothers, Heroes sell movies to boys and fathers and crossover appeal means nothing to them because it is a waste of money to try and make hero shit specifically for little girls when they already make billions from Princess stuff(not to mention they also risk alienating their much larger boy market if they turn heroes into a "girls toy").

That is why DC tend to have their girl hero stuff off on its own with its own art style and characters(Superhero Girls has pretty much no male characters in it(from memory)) because WB don't have anything to compete with the Disney Princess range(endless Harry Potter spinoffs maybe?). If you want to sell to boys you can't let them think that girls like the same thing.
Facebook Feminism be damned boys don't like toys for girls and for hero stuff boys will always be 70-90% of the market no matter how much mothers re-tweet about not having Black Widow toys for their daughters.

>>91377225

Marvel got lazy and assumed that popular movies would lead people to buy the books to go along

>>91377715
>as well as letting their characters just do their own thing for a while.

Always a benefit for DC, every character has their own city(generally) so they don't have to keep running into each other and also it means that they get unique settings so you have cities like Opal(Starman) with their twisted streets, Metropolis(Superman) with futuristic skycrapers and art-deco buildings, Gotham(Batman-family) with it's many grim alleyways and empty theme parks and even Charm City(Powerless) with its many abandoned mannequin factories where all the paedophiles live.

When everyone lives in New York like in Marvel(although they have gotten better about this over the years) you are limited in what you can really do with a locale in terms of having it tell a story.

Isn't DC much better with creator's rights? Marvel usually try to stiff people whenever possible. As an artist/writer it seems much better to work at DC hence why Marvel hires people off of tumblr

>>91377883

I think King left BECAUSE DC offered Batman

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>>91377687
Yeah but not for girls who like dolls. Like how come we don't see Black Widow or Scarlet Witch dolls aside from those Tonner or crazy expensive realistic ones.

My little niece asked me and my brother for a Thor or Scarlet Witch doll because she wants to have a figure of them but with hair because she wants to braid and brush their hair like she does with Barbies (ee even nade her a Spider-Man costume for one of her Kens and she prerends he's Peter).

The only Marvel Barbies she has are Mary Jane wedding Barbie and Elektra, the others are DC Barbies and the DC Superhero girls.

>>91377225
DC was able to accept and improve on what didnt work and what the fans didn't want, while still leaving room for 'non-standard' books.

Marvel's head is so far up it's ass you can only see the feet.

>>91377883
Who did they poach? Humphries?

>>91378325
Fuck sorry I meant to say thay we made her a Spidey costume for one of her Kens and she pretends he's Peter.

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>>91377883
I feel like DC could get Wilson back if Marvel fucks up and doesn't keep her on Kamala.

(pic fun but not really that related)

>>91378040
Makes me wonder how they will handle Captain Marvel merc willl they only appeal to girls and women woth the ocassional guy shirt.

Or will they also try to appeal to boys by selling figures of her or if not figures of angry Kree dudes with weapons and stuff (maybe even Mar-Vell if he is there).

>>91377225
It's really very simple.

DC secured all the best writers to exclusives.

Marvel treats their employees like shit and can rarely get them to stay.

>>91377687
Bendis is only good in his original element: street level stories.
Anything else is a guaranteed clusterfuck.

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>>91378238
>and even Charm City(Powerless) with its many abandoned mannequin factories where all the paedophiles live.

>>91377704
up until Clone Saga

>>91378325
You should have told your niece that Marvel isn't made for her. The Ghostbusters reboot and Disney princesses are for girls, and Marvel is for boys.

>>91377225

Well OP, it's really simple. See, /co/ has it's head so far up DC's ass that even though this is the first month DC has moved the same number of units as Marvel, they still lag behind them in actual dollars earned, and you will never hear a single anon here utter actual criticism regarding their boring, milquetoast comics. This is because Marvel is Run By SJWers (even though the person in charge of Marvel backed Trump and DC does exactly the same amount of diversity pandering) and Liking Marvel Is Reddit (even though Reddit is the biggest DC hugbox of all time to the point where they have actual hugbox threads where you can only say positive things about how much you like DC comics).

So, you know, it's all bullshit not rooted in reality. But hey, that's part of the shitposting fun, AMIRITE GUIES?

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>>91378976
>utter actual criticism regarding their boring, milquetoast comics

co doesn't do detailed analysis of anything most of the time, unless it's bottom of the barrel trash.

Nice sage by the way.

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>>91378583
I do so love that show.

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>>91379262

Alan Tudyk gets to be funny and I get to look at Vanessa Hudgens.

I like it more than the Flash these days.

>>91378976
this it's pretty much the same with movies too

>>91378513
This is the correct answer. Marvel just has no good writers left.

>>91378404
That's cute.

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>>91379458
It's a bit of a shame, because they have great characters but letting shitty writers stomp on them is just a bad idea.

>>91379369
He's so perfect in that role.

>>91377317
Marvel has no female heroes to sell to little girls with the films.

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>>91378976
Sometimes I come across posts that do seem honest to god paid for.
This is one of them.

>>91381360
Is that why they've had the sudden push of women replacing established characters?
Like She-Hulk, Iron Man and Thor?

>>91378512
Captain Marvel could replace eventually Black Widow and Captain America. They just replace some of the Captain America stuff with Captain Marvel stuff. She'll probably even have a star used as a symbol; like him.

They could try to eventually replace Iron Man and Captain America with Nova.

>>91383065
Honestly it feels kind of late for that. People still like and pay to watch the MCU obviously but the later movies don't seem to get as much hype. Maybe the kids will buy in, but it feels like with the later things like Strange they're just kind of cool but the emotional investment isn't there.

>>91382985
Replacing movie Thor with a woman would also piss off women who like them some beefcake

>>91383224
The MCU will be a glorious thousand year Reich tho.

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>>91383224
you don't need to be emotionally invested

but you do still have to see it

>>91383288
They're already setting up Valkyrie as a possible replacement.

>>91384296
Yeah great, the black Valkyrie

Guess a white women wasn't progressive enough for a possible lead character replacement.

>>91377225
>Hippolyta and a horse with pretty hair to brush

cute Cute CUTE

>>91383328
>>91383451
Yeah I don't deny that people will still watch the movies, but I don't know if that translates to merch sales anymore. They'll like Carol and all but will they really want her shit instead of more Cap, Iron Man, etc? Shit there are probably some Thor dolls with pretty hair that they can brush.

>>91377687
and it doesn't help that the few decent to food writers they do have only do Star Wars books.

>>91383065
They can even repeat or do something similar to the Civil War stuff with the Nova Corps by having various characters disagree with whether Earth or various countries should be considered part of the jurisdiction of the Nova Corps.

>>91378040
>Facebook Feminism be damned boys don't like toys for girls

I wanted Princess Gwenevire and the Jewel Riders toys when I was a kid but my parents wouldn't buy them for me

>>91377225
Comic book wise, DC actually looks at what readers want rather than telling them what they want. You see DC had its experimental phase during the New 52, some good, some bad reception, and afterwards they started Rebirth to try and implement what they learned from current readers. Now this isnt to say that every current DC book is gold, naturally some of their recent creative decisions haven't responded well, but as a whole they're getting better. Now Marvel on the other hand has fallen on the marketing tactic where you NEED to read their books, like they're insightful, progressive, and taking the medium in a brand new direction. However, thats all it is, marketing, not good writing, or even writing for that matter. Most if not all their books are about advertising the next big thing, whether it be a character or event. They've also made legacy characters outright trivial, making them so one dimensional and lazy that the only way to justify their existence is by shitting on the predecessor like it somehow makes them good character by default. Who is at fault over at Marvel? Hard to say, its a collective failure, but good bet its on their editors and having writers being given too much control

>>91384864
Writers having control isn't bad. The wrong writers having control is though. If Bendis and Slott were as good as Snyder and Johns maybe Marvel wouldn't be in this mess.

>>91384925
>Johns
Even he has his limits. Sure he does a good Flash or Aquaman book, but you can bet your ass I wish someone told him to fuck off writing the Justice League and especially Wonder Woman

>>91383451
I felt it was kinda cool. And while like the comics I've never been invested in Dr.Strange personally its cool to see what he does on the mystical plains of the Marvel Universe.

That's usually what he's around for. Only doing things when others end up out of their area of expertise.

>>91377704
Early 2000s, Marvel was pretty fucking good until Civil War fucked everything

And I say this as a massive DCfag

>>91385912
No, not even Civil War. Avengers Disassembled was the end.

>>91384470
Captain Marvel (and potentially Valkyrie if she is used a good deal) might get a decent amount of merchandise sold if they are in movies that are good and people like the characters because they will likely be actually super powered female characters which haven't appeared much in the movies (basically just a few women in the Thor movies and Gamora sort of). This might appeal to some people in different ways than previous stuff.

>>91377317

Ike Permutter doesn't see the potential in marketing to girls as well as boys. That's why BW figures are basically nonexistent.

>>91384925
There are actually people who think Bendis should be Editor in Chief.

My mind boggles.

>>91378469
I thought she was a pure Muslim girl.

>>91378325
Girls love Wanda. Outside of Marvel Studios, Marvel doesn't.

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>>91377225
>why is DC head and shoulders above Marvel in terms of Comicbook quality right now?
Nu52 was a mistake ( they got some new fans but alianated considerably more older fans ); although I'm sure it made sense at the time given the popularity of NolanBats and Injustice Vidya. See image related.

Convergence was a naked cash grab.

DCYou was also a mistake; but not because most of the ideas were bad; rather they dumped waaaaaay too many things all at one time using the Throw Shit At The Wall And See What Sticks method.

Then they had Johns literally make a video saying, "look ... we fucked up. We're sorry. We hear you and we understand and we're going to try and make it right AND HERE'S HOW: we're going back to "meat and potatoes"; AND we're gonna cut the number of titles; AND we're gonna double ship them; AND the first few months will be completely returnable; AND the first oversized issue will be shipped at basically COST (AND RETURNABLE)."

So they came to the fans hat in hand and begged forgiveness and made a very serious good faith effort to fix want was broken.

Now compare this with the current faggotry at Marble:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31/marvels-david-gabriel-limited-series-death-knell-except-star-wars/

See? They can't ship a mini as a mini because people totally won't buy it ( we'll just ignore the fact that literally everyone else tells you upfront that Dark Knight III is 9 issues; or Hellboy and BPRD Ghost Moon is 2 issues; or ... ).

Or:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/01/marvel-laments-lack-superstar-artists-drive-sales-situation-say-purposely-created/

Because it's not like they haven't gone way out of their way to prevent another Image Exodus or anything.

Or:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/31/axel-alonso-says-rotating-artists-way-go-big-events/

Because what readers want is rotating artists ( with wildly different styles ) and even rotating writers as well; just as long as it ships on time.

TL;DR: MBAs.

>>91377225
Marvel threw the race away and went full retard. 90% of their books are thinly veiled soapboxes for the writers to proclaim their views.

DC focused on making stories about heroes doing heroic stuff. Fighting aliens, dealing with interpersonal drama, and stuff like that.

DC does serious stuff, but rather than having a 4 page long discussion about race violence or profiling they have Lois Lane protecting her son from death by jumping into Batman's robot suit to fight the avatar of the Kryptonian afterlife that wants to eat Jon's soul...

>>91392172
>having a 4 page long discussion about race violence or profiling
have you read deathstroke #11? cause it's an entire issue about Chicago's gun violence epidemic. DC does stuff like marvel, it's just that they aren't ham-fisted and shitty

>>91391979
>rotating artists
Another thing: as obnoxious at the "Stealth Mini" bullshit is; the "Bait and Switch" artist Marble Mamba is even worse.

How many times have you seen a preview that has some really nice art and then it's either inter-spaced with a shit-tier fill ins or they just go full crap after the first arc and hope you're hooked enough to keep reading anyway?

Or both: Silk started out with Stacy Lee on art with jarringly dissonant fill in's by Tana Ford ... and then they made Ford the regular artist.

God forbid they use the Dark Horse/Image system and stagger releases ( or alternate artists on single arcs with sufficient lead time ) so the books are consistent.

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>>91392172
>rather than having a 4 page long discussion about race violence or profiling

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>>91392562

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>>91392172

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>>91392172

>>91377317
>Is it because of the Disney Princesses?

Doubtful since Disney whored out Rey in the new Star Wars. It's more likely because Disney doesn't own the rights to any of Marvel's interesting females.

>>91377687
Fucking this, plus the absolute doubling down on pandering. Look in all honesty, Marvel could have made a successful diversity push that might have not alienated fans - they could have pushed their known, established diversity characters rather than oust every known and beloved Caucasian character. This plus the writer poaching and basically giving Bendis EVERYTHING, along with "movie synergy" and Marvel comics sunk themselves. I'm glad Based Feige and the studio crew cut the cord and are focusing on telling classic stories.

>>91393223

>"They could have used established characters, but they duh-didn't."

Falcon -
Seems like he's been around for 4 decades. He was shit all over by bigots like you who want a "pure" Captain America. REMEMBER THAT? I do. I had to read through those threads.

All the X-Men characters -
Remember when everyone knew they were all allegories for oppressed minority groups the day BEFORE Iceman came out of the closet... but now bigots like you willfully forget and lie about how that whole oppression theme revolved around heterosexual white Christian males, have you noticed your bullshit yet?

Fucking Lived in San-Fran with her female room-mate "best friend" 30 years ago Carol Fucking Obvious Lesbian Danvers -
How many times are misogynistic bigot "fans" like you going to whine about how much you want her to go back to being a background Barbie character with no dialog? SPOILER: lots more times. Because you can't handle the idea of any non-objectified woman having power.

And while we're on that subject, Thor -
Again, Jane Foster, another character that's been around for decades and you think she was invented yesterday. And god knows how many times I've had to read through a rapist's posts about how "obvious" it is that she's not WORTHY to have power.

Amadeus Cho / The Totally Awesome Hulk -
Remember all those times you whined about there being this Asian character added to the character list of Marvel a decade ago? What's that? You didn't fucking notice or care when it was sidekick Amadeus, but now that the character doesn't conform to a bigot's stereotype you cry about diversity as if the word is itself offensive? Go figure...

Shall I go on? Bigot.

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>>91377687
DC has had superior writers since the '80s

>>91377687
This, and as people are saying the diversity agenda. But I think the problems are linked- a lot of marvels new talent was brought on because they had history and audits with in the "diversity " circuit. That didn't mean any sort of talent and poisoned the well of new recruits

>>91395057
I've always held the belief that writers are more important than artists.
A great writer can survive a shitty artist but a shitty writer can't save a great artist.

>>91398291
>writers are more important than artists
Axel, you're drunk. Go home.

>>91398719
Shit I had no idea Axel said that stuff last week.
I don't agree with him about it prompting sales(a popular artist can push a book to a degree), but I do still think that with shitty writing comes shitty sales compared to shitty art which can sometimes be overlooked.