>Dick is better than Bruce >Wally is better than Barry

because they're sluttier

>Roy is better than Oliver
>Donna is better than Diana

these two aren't true though

>>91161995
They learned from the mistakes of their mentors and tend to be better people.

>>91162015
Donna is less bitchy and has a better ass.

>>91161995
Writers don't know how to make people like replacements and former side kicks other than saying they're actually better

>>91161995
They are less editorially shackled characters.

>>91161995
For the most part they're child protege's unlike their mentors who learned in their early 20's

>Dick is better than Bruce
Better person and fighter if you ask Tom King but Batmans a better detective
>Wally is better than Barry
Faster and better at Speedforce tech but they're both lovable
>Roy is better than Oliver
They're both jackasses, Roy is just better with tech but is a wreck of a human being
>Donna is better than Diana
Dunno enough about her to give an informed opinion

Also aside from maybe Roy
>>91162023

>>91162066
Not entirely true. Dick was actually a worse Batman who didn't want the job, but that's what made him better. Damian is basically the only one who said they were the best.

>>91161995
Only the Wally part is true. Nightwing is the epitome of mediocrity and only liked by girls who have a sidecut and dye their hair, while posting on tumblr. Donna and Roy? Lol no. They're shit.

>>91162121
>but is a wreck of a human being
That's what makes him a good character.

Come to think of it, Superman is prety much the only head of his "family" that i'm enjoying more than the other lines of comics featuring the rest of the family.

Batman is a loose fourth competing with Teen Titans, compared to Nightwing, RHatO and Super Sons.

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How come Roy is allowed to be reunited with his former mentor but Wally, Donna and Garth aren't?

>>91162197
Wally hasn't gotten an arc but he and Barry have had several issues together since he came back. And this week's Titans Annual explained Donna and Diana's deal.

>>91161995
They have close to the same skillset as their mentors with very little of the baggage that those heroes got from their origin and early mistakes Beings hero mostly helps these guys but the original hero tends to need their hero life because it is a part of them. The sidekicks are shaped to use hero life more like an outlet and once that anger or pain goes away they can move on (they just don't because a writer that wants to use them just got assigned a new book).

>>91162029
Yeah but she's a fucking pushover.

>>91162066
I don't think that's a fair estimation of what they did with Wally. The best Flash story ever is because it's about Wally struggling to finally get out of the long shadow of Barry Allen.

>>91162197
There is an oddly massive insecurity amongst Barry fans whenever Wally shows up. I know it's a cesspit but go read a youtube page about a Barry Allen and Wally West video. That's the average fan, sadly.

>>91162155
>Nightwing is the epitome of mediocrity and only liked by girls who have a sidecut and dye their hair

I used to be a big fan of Nightwing, but it is true that now he is basically for females and homosexuals.

>>91162787
That is because Wally is faster and they know it.

>>91162121
King was trolling, Bruce is peak human and the second smartest guy in the planet, even when he chooses to be a chad and waste his time training instead of doing real science. Dick is by far the better leader, Bruce is only a field commander

>>91161995
>Is there a reason side kicks tend to be better than their heroes?
Same reason Dredd is better than Fargo.
He had the benefit of the academy. Don't underestimate training anon. The mentors broke the mold but the protege were cast better.

Because they're supposed to be the next generation.

>>91162259
How can they move on from being a superhero? Think about it, what will they do? Get a minimum wage job? They didn't really go to school or college and most never had another job in their life. It's kind of messed up but unlike the league which had other lives before becoming heroes these side kicks were raised on the battlefield and likely have no other talents. Think about the effect that can have on a child. They were literally facing life or death situations on a daily basis.

>>91164530
No, King was correct. His only trolling was Jason being dumber than Ace.

>>91161995
Because being teen characters who are adults now they actually have development
DC screwed the pooch on not letting the characters age

>>91162768
Wally is the exception, not the rule

>>91165490
>King was correct

Dickfags are terrible

Dick Grayson is the eternal sidekick.
He is the Charlie Brown of cape comics.
He's not even the hero of the comic book which has his name on it.
He has never done anything remotely notable on his own and never will, unless Batman is somehow involved.

>>91162121
When did Wally become faster than Barry?

>Brucefags at it again

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>>91165614
Like 20 years ago? Right now they might be about equal, though Wally is still more skilled.

>>91165646
How much speed force tricks and speed did Barry lose?

>>91165646
meant for >>91165612

>>91161995

Because a lot of the heroes you listed are golden-age. Everything they do seems trite to us because we've seen it 1 million times at this point. Also, if their sidekicks had the same limits on their powers it would get boring. That's how you get crazy shit like the flash vibrating through walls and Sue Storm holding up buildings with her force fields.

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>>91165568
King was talking about skill, not the ability to win in a fight, faggot. Dick came from a family of athletes and grew up being an acrobat so obviously he'd be more naturally skilled than Bruce. Bruce could still kick his ass but he's not as skilled.

>>91161995
In reality
>Dick and Bruce are pretty much equal and deserve to coexist
>Wally and Barry are both good but Wally can't reach his full potential without Barry being dead
>Oliver is better than Roy, mostly because Roy has been assassinated over the last 2 decades
>Donna is "cluster fuck" the character but has potential, Diana also is good.

>>91165686
I wouldn't say he lost speed but the thing is that when all the cool speed force stuff was being thought up Barry was dead so he had to play catchup and try to learn the cool stuff after the fact while Wally had been dicking around in it and basically mastered control.

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>>91165612
Almost 25 years ago.

>>91162185
Even with Superman, I think I like Supersons more than his two books.

>>91166997
New Super-Man is the only good Superbook. The others are ok at best.

>>91167058
New-Supes is pretty good. Art's kinda bad though, and personally that's a big draw for me in a superhero comicbook.

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>>91161995

>legacyfags

>>91167156
That's fair I guess. I feel like the art has some charm to it but it has a sloppy element to it that I can see bothering some people.

>>91164530
The only thing Bruce has over Dick is experience. If Bruce, say, goes to the future by ten years and fights Dick I'm willing to bet Dick would win 9/10 and even Bruce would agree since he's said multiple times that Dick is a few levels above Bruce in the natural talent department.

Love your legacy fave but never think your fave will replace the main hero.
Wally got 20+ years and now look at him. Into the bushes status

>>91167294
>I feel like the art has some charm to i
I hope you're aware that you are also talking about the new artist, Billy fucking Tan, when you say this.

>>91168376

Also size, strength, intelligence, gear...also there is no substitute for experience, and Dick hasn't been through a tenth of the shit Bruce has, even when it comes to training.

Dick has trained from a younger age and is more naturally athletic, but that only gets you so far against a freak of nature who pushes himself to the furthest limits humanly possible on the regular.

>>91164530

Dick is the guy you want to be your leader. Bruce is the guy you go to if you absolutely need results.

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As a person who loves Barry, Wally AND Jay, Barry is a more static character and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. What growth he's had has been fairly minimal. I mean aside from dying and coming back. With Wally he's had to live up to the Flash legacy, force himself to get out of Barry's shadow, improve, etc etc..

It's great to have them both back to be honest, with Jay to come in a month or so. I think both can teach each other be it in the ways of the Speedforce, being a hero, or just in being a human who goes fast. Family dynamics can be good.

I don't see why one has to be better than the other or more "FLASH" than the other. If we're going by pure nostalgia and seniority, Jay should top them all and be THE Flash, but he isn't and I'm fine with that

Clearly I'm in the minority who just enjoys the characters and doesn't get into shitstorms over the Barry/Wallyfagging. Be glad you have a character to like.

>>91162144
>Dick was actually a worse Batman
I loved that bit in Gates of Gotham(?) where Penguin watches Dick fight and just goes "Who the fuck are you?"