Is there any other show where a character design goes completely

That's more of a modern cartoon thing.

>>91132323
Samurai Jack.

Transformers G1

>>91132342
Do they really go off model in the same way as OP, which is completely different art styles

If I recall they do change sizes all the time due to plot and laziness and animation errors, but the art style if you can call it that is pretty much all the same

>>91132419
They did use fucked-up character sheets for a while. Starscream was officially one-eared at first, I think.

>All these cancerous crossboarders that have never heard of Ren & Stimpy

Model Sheets are the work of hacks that should stick to anime.

>>91132323
Sugar is legitimately an incompetent creator. It's her job to check the story boards for off-model shit and out of character interactions. She clearly doesn't do that.

>>91132621
Only in the comics, and really only by Jose Delbo who was a notorious model sheet copier.

That said, the toons did have a few model sheets so sometimes some studios would use outdated references. Arcee in "Only Human" noticeably uses an older model that puts her car kibble on the front of her shoulders instead of her back.

>>91132323
Ren and Stimpy but that's kinda the point

>>91132642
On one hand I want to agree with you simply because I hate weebs....
But why is Ren and Stimpy considered good again? From an animation standpoint, sure, nothing to frown about, but animation itself is only one small fraction of a good show, you can have the greatest drummer in the world in the worlds shittiest rock and rolls band, they're still gonna be a shitty band with one good aspect. Yngwie Malmsteen is without a doubt a great guitarist, but he can't write a song for shit.

>>91132323
It's been stated that they don't really demand adherence to design sheets, most noticeably in their lack of consistent heights. The boarders are left to their own styles, and I can appreciate the idea behind it.

But good god have there been some bizarre slides in terms of design as things have gone on, like every one of them is playing telephone with the previous boarder on how some character or thing is supposed to look.

>>91132931
>story boards for off-model
not the story board job to be on model. They are only there to describe the scenes.

File: B2AfRQfIcAAhrj_.png (918KB, 600x878px) Image search: [Google]

918KB, 600x878px

>>91132323
>off-model is bad
Stop being retarded. There is a difference between proper, intentional "character goes off-model all the time" and "The artist is so fucking bad that is unable to draw on-model"

>>91132642
>being this stupid
There were model sheets for Ren and Stimpy you try hard newfag. There is not off-model without on-model.

>>91132931
I wonder how many retards actually believe this.

>>91132642
>trying to compare Ren and Stimpy with SU
Oh, how the depths you (((people))) would plumb.

>>91133070
>and I can appreciate the idea behind it.
the idea of being lazy and unprofessional?

File: Untitled.jpg (64KB, 633x467px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 633x467px

>>91132323
Some of the later episodes of Flapjack were like that. Early ones went off-model too, but not ALL the time. And Transformers G1, like >>91132342 mentioned.

I want to say Jem had some trouble with staying on-model, but I can't remember if that was its problem, or just spectacular animation goofs.

Chowder, Flapjack, Adventure Time

File: st.jpg (167KB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

167KB, 1280x800px

Hey retards, does this piss you off?

>>91133335
That looks like intentional off-model so, no.

File: st1.jpg (202KB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 1280x800px

Most of the retards have only seen SU post-Return/Jailbreak. If they followed the show from the beginning they'd know why the staff DOESN'T want strict rules on how the characters are drawn and never did.

File: Really.png (150KB, 263x278px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 263x278px

>>91133589
>it is fine ruining characters. That was our plan all along. It was on purpose!

File: IMG_0531.png (222KB, 400x326px) Image search: [Google]

222KB, 400x326px

I think a lot people forget SBT went off model a lot of times too. Not to extent of SU but its still vey noticeable

The problem isn't that Sugar follows the loose philosophy of models (which has its pluses and minuses but overall is the way I prefer it, as evidence in storyboards that Sugar herself does, which are always doing new things and look very stylish), it's that one of the storyboards she keeps on has hijacked the character into a horrible Invader Zim parody and won't give it back.

>>91133736
Who are you quoting?

File: 1484298000470[2].jpg (144KB, 550x550px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 550x550px

>Peridot needs redemption!
>Jasper needs redemption!
>Rubies needs redemption!
>Diamonds needs redemption!
Why this people are so afraid of having an antagonists?

>>91133794
>l is the way I prefer it
totally not a biased slave sucking the cock of his e-waifu there.

>>91133844
People like the characters and want a happy end for them.

>>91133864
Is that even English? Do you really want to go back to the Animaniacs era of religious model-following? Why would you ever want to do traditional animation if you were just going to follow a model? Why not just use, you know, a 3D Model.

>>91133744
They forgot SBT, too.

File: AVGN.jpg (7KB, 114x175px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 114x175px

>>91133112
>>91133364
>I-it's intentional I swear

File: Warp_Tour_(30).png (551KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

551KB, 1280x720px

>>91133876
>green memelord goblin
>happy end

>>91133891
You don't know what on-model and off-model mean, do you?

>>91133913
Disregarding your meme description, yes.

>>91133919
I know what they mean, though I have no idea what they mean in your head. But we've already established that we don't speak the same language.

>>91133933
I was not that guy and no, you don't know what on-model and off-model mean.

>>91133963
"The model" is a set of guidelines that are circulated in the studio by some authority (probably lead animator/designer) which describe the ways that characters "should" be drawn. This can be anything ranging from exact dimensions/proportions and relative sizes to gestures which should/shouldn't be used, whether creases should be drawn at certain angles, how the hair parts, what kind of poses to use, essentially anything that can be described may be described. "On-model"/"off-model" is not a binary thing, but is rather a gradient of philosophies of whether or not it's more important to use artistic judgment to create a pose/scene/whatever that the individual artist feels is aesthetic or whether it is more important to very strictly stick to the given guidelines for consistency's sake. It's not a very complicated concept.

I can only assume you're taking my crack at on-model philosophy being too robotic far too literally. Which is both ironic and fitting considering the subject matter.

File: tumblr_m4ee2y9QMM1r4ejcfo5_1280.jpg (264KB, 1280x997px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 1280x997px

>>91133891
>the golden age of the animation was an era of religious model-following
>somehow this retard thinks having proper model sheets is a bad thing
Your regular SUfag

>>91134063
The golden age of animation was a time of pre-unionization where genuine artists of robust backgrounds congregated at a time in history not to "make cartoons" for business's sake, but to make art for the sake of art. Golden ages never come again, so stop living in the past.


It's cute that you have a hate-boner for Steven Universe, but believe it or not this subject is larger than one cartoon that you're obsessed over. Stop comparing feature animations with hundred-million dollar budgets to Network cartoons and start comparing the average cartoon that has a strict model philosophy to the average cartoon that has a loose model philosophy. The production cycle of a cartoon does not allow for a lead artist to micromanage every animator's every move and without that if you try and reduce the story-boarders to the role of Korean animator then that is exactly the quality you're going to get.

File: IMG_0597.jpg (71KB, 497x411px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 497x411px

>>91133844

>diamonds need redemption

Lol ok,when you learn how to redeem 3 people who basically hiroshimad your people and even some of their own the come back to me.

Peridot,jasper and the rubies are fine, but cant go redemming the main antagonists, thats like goku redeeming frieza

File: Young Greg.png (754KB, 1024x577px) Image search: [Google]

754KB, 1024x577px

>>91134153
There is a big difference between a "loose model philosophy" and shit like THIS >>91132323

I don't mean little changes. I don't mean different styles for a character. I don't mean different kinds of animation. But when a character height changes non stop every episode you know that the things are fucked up. Like how Greg sometimes looked as small as fucking Steven in those flashback episodes.

SU is the only modern cartoon with this king problem. You can't defend this

>>91133335
no because this was one of the first episodes to be produced, plus ian has a very distinct artstyle of animation that translates poorly to steven universes more rounded artstyle. However its no excuse about the eye lid thing going on in pic related it just doesnt work here

>>91132605
You know those were hallucinations right?

File: 1483032506818.gif (2MB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x300px

>>91132323
>ctrl f sonic underground
>no results
cmon, guys

>>91132323
Fucking hell

File: consider-the-following.jpg (29KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 600x600px

>>91134437
Making characters larger or smaller to emphasize how powerful and/or in control of the scene they are is ok in animation. They even use it in live action from time to time by manipulating the angle of the shot.

>>91134625
They don't do that in SU and you know it. Stop making excuses.

>>91133112
>Stop being retarded. There is a difference between proper, intentional "character goes off-model all the time" and "The artist is so fucking bad that is unable to draw on-model"
Which of those do you think is the case with Steven Universe?

Spoiler alert, it's the latter.

File: Steven leads the gem rebels into battle.jpg (30KB, 460x397px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 460x397px

>>91133844
its fun to see antagonists in more friendly terms senpai

>>91134875
But you gotta realize it's not fun for people if the original villain character was completely revamped into a new personality.

>>91132323
No. Even teen titans go has consistency in its shitty art. SU is a unique specimen of horrible talent

>>91133844
Remember Bismuth?

File: scaling.png (321KB, 770x384px) Image search: [Google]

321KB, 770x384px

>>91134684
Sapphire getting her way to inspect the station vs. Sapphire being presented to the Diamonds.

It's not an excuse it's a visual effect.

...Panty & Stocking?

File: bAjxhTH.gif (1MB, 400x190px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 400x190px

>>91134941
Nobody cared about her.

>>91134960
But Panty and Stocking is intentionally doing it they switch art style all the time for fun. Like the Volleyball game turning into south park stop motion cut outs. The ghosts exploding are models with fireworks in them.

Thats all intentional for comedy but even then the characters themselves stay fairly on model. Panty doesn't shrink over the course of the season ending up a quater of her height by the end any time they do change its completely intentional.

If Steven Universe just had a few fuck ups every now and then it would be fine but its 1 episode Stevens normal height the next hes half that and needs a ladder to use the kitchen and it constantly happens with multiple characters heights and designs fluctuate and change.

>>91134946
It's very obvious those two pictures were drawn by two different people though

>>91134946
>>91135069
Holy shit but look at amethyst's face.

>>91133589
Silly faces is different from constantly changing height

>>91133079
When you're dealing with Western animation studios. Koreans don't refer to model sheets, they just draw as closely to the storyboards as they can (excluding Lapis tits). For a show that ran this long Sugar should have learned that even if she didn't know at first.

>>91133128
And what's your camp of thought? Rebeca does everything perfectly and then gremlins break into the studio at night, draw characters off-model and write OOC dialogue?

File: after-diamonds.png (231KB, 575x522px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 575x522px

>>91135069
Here's a shot right after meeting the Diamonds.

It's hard to believe they accidentally scale Sapphire to 50% size just for one scene where she is in trouble.

>>91135203
>It's hard to believe they accidentally scale Sapphire to 50% size just for one scene
Is it?

>>91135238
Well then they have superb luck since it just happened to fit the atmosphere of the scene.

>>91135238
Considering they are paid professionals, it's not only hard to believe, but unacceptable.

>>91134736
Steven Universe regularly makes the most fundamental of animation mistakes. Forgetting what color the cloths a character is wearing are supposed to be. Forgetting to draw important character features like the gems' gems. Forgetting to flat out color certain parts of the scene. Animation clipping. Not remembering the placement of items so characters and objects teleport around the scene.

It's just all around really, really sloppy.

>>91135238
Through all of the episodes her height changed though

>>91135316
Those sorts of mistakes have occurred since the beginning of animation. No real reason to call out one show in particular for it when it doesn't do it much more than most other shows.

Wander Over Yonder "went off model" all the time, but you can tell that whenever they did it was intentional and to serve a purpose. You can see this in Craig's design notes on the character sheets.

SU does not do this. The show has no consistency, and thus, gives the impression of incompetence or a lack of care.

>>91134916
It uses crappy Flash animation. Not really an achievement.

>>91135467
It deserves to be criticized because modern tech and libraries makes that shit hard to happen "by mistake". You can't compare ninja turtles color error for 1 frame with Steven purposely looking like a grotesque blobs for whole sequences.

>>91135177
>Koreans don't refer to model sheets,
You are wrong. They do, when studios provide them. Those same studios that you are deefnding for having hard time keeping Steven at the same size also draw Japanese anime without breaking a sweat, and for cheaper. so it's clearly not a matter of "hard work". It's bad work.

File: tumblr_mt8bq1xirK1rm4wgqo4_1280.jpg (486KB, 1280x828px) Image search: [Google]

486KB, 1280x828px

>>91135488
Notice how Craig mentions that certain characters change sizes when put in different situations, or how artists have to "cheat" with model design in certain views.

This off-model work is done purposely, and is consistent in the show. SU doesn't do this.

>>91135629
You really can't compare color errors with "off-model" drawings. That's on the artist, not the technology.

>>91133333

>>91135778
you think they made those old cartoons with computers? How fucking dumb are you? Fuck off, retard.

>>91133589
Look at Garnet's bracket lips

[I]

>>91135177
>When you're dealing with Western animation studios. Koreans don't refer to model sheets, they just draw as closely to the storyboards as they can (excluding Lapis tits). For a show that ran this long Sugar should have learned that even if she didn't know at first.

Absolutely incorrect. Steven Universe's reliance on storyboard is a very deliberate choice.

File: Artstyle.jpg (563KB, 797x1243px) Image search: [Google]

563KB, 797x1243px

>>91135488
>>91135700
Remember this?

File: Artstyle2.jpg (452KB, 808x1112px) Image search: [Google]

452KB, 808x1112px

>>91136077

File: Artstyle3.jpg (980KB, 822x1891px) Image search: [Google]

980KB, 822x1891px

>>91136108

>>91133794
>it's that one of the storyboards she keeps on has hijacked the character into a horrible Invader Zim parody and won't give it back.
Zuke, right? She left the show months ago dude. Old news.

>>91134153
>Golden ages never come again
maybe if you're shit at Civilization, pleb

>>91135896
Not all technology is computers, dum-dum.

>>91134239
>Dragon Ball super
>Frieza's race gets redeemed

File: Jenny'sTransformations.jpg (115KB, 1024x622px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1024x622px

>>91135488
I'm going to bet they don't have in depth character model sheets like most cartoons do. MLAATR had a fuck ton for just for Jenny alone right down to the elements required for the various weapons and tools she has.

It's almost like they put care and effort into making the characters have a specific style and to stay within it.

>>91133876
You know, you can be a likable antagonist and still be defeated in the end. It's been done before in plenty of shows.

>>91135069
And?

>>91136342
You're not being serious are you?

>there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW that think on-model is a bad thing

>>91136077
>>91136108
>>91136139
Source?

File: Frost.jpg (48KB, 710x402px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 710x402px

>>91136398

>>91136417
>there are people in this thread RIGHT NOW that think off-model is a bad thing

>>91135670
Bullshit. That doesn't explain how with every story boarder every character is off-model in a certain consistent way. The chinks obviously refer to the story board for modeling and an on-model storyboard would mean on-model animation.

>>91136629
Anon, Frost is the leader of a band of space pirates who starts wars secretly and sells off planets.
Hell in that tournament he literally poisoned Goku and Piccolo.

>>91136035
>drawing characters off-model is a deliberate choice
>in a cartoon with continuity
Either you're retarded, or the person who made this decision is retarded.

File: U6.png (543KB, 830x752px) Image search: [Google]

543KB, 830x752px

>>91136710
Let's be honest, he will be redeemed in the future and you know it.

>>91136765
In the sense than he won't be a weakling anymore.
Get ready for Golden Frost.

>>91136077
>>91136108
>>91136139
that shit was great and still applies

>>91133844
They identify with that self-indulging asshole that hurts people for kicks and want to believe they can avoid responsability every time if they pinky-swear they've changed/want to change.

Not much different from /co/'s own fetish for redemption.

>>91136342
Does it really matter? I mean, it's not like we really saw Frieza's race outside of his immediately family. Hell, we don't even know what his race is called other than "Freiza's Race"

>>91132323
So wait. You're telling me they don't draw her neck anymore?

Off the top of my head: Adventure Time, Clarence, Uncle Grandpa, Ren and Stimpy, Looney Tunes, Old Disney Cartoons, Tom and Jerry, Spongebob, Rocko's Modern Life, Flapjack, Chowder, Tiny Toon Adventures, most anime.

>>91136902
So what?

Is it just hard to imagine a race/tribe/nation/etc. composed majotarily of assholes? When did this anti-Tolkienist circlejerking became the rule in fiction?

>>91136981
A lot of people like Orcs man.

>>91136370
Its two different styles

>>91137023
They like the orcs, or they like THEIR own version of the orcs?

>>91136717
>>drawing characters off-model is a deliberate choice

It is and was stated by the crew many times retard. It's the same school of animation Asventure time uses

>>91136902
>we don't even know what his race is called other than "Freiza's Race"
If it makes you feel better things like Xenoverse and Online call them Frost Demons.

>>91137067
>school of animation
You mean being lazy hacks who can't into consistency and quality control?

>>91137117
Yes

>>91136655
There's deliberate deformation in certain poses or expressions for exaggeration, loads of old cartoons have that and nobody complains about it (except Matt Groening, apparently) and then there's just being shit artists who can't manage to draw a character to the same proportions from one scene to the next. SU is the latter.

>>91135069

An animation team is literally hundreds of people and they're all explicitly trained to mimic whatever style they need to. Otherwise every individual shot on every show would look different.

If you can't draw in the style of the show you don't deserve to be an animator.

>>91132323
Ren and Stimpy.

>>91137248
>Otherwise every individual shot on every show would look different.

They pretty much do though

>>91132323
So is off model fine when it's not changing character heights?
>>91134509
http://metalgirlysolid.tumblr.com/post/158355635958/astralika-metalgirlysolid-jerryterry

File: AVGN6.png (430KB, 409x519px) Image search: [Google]

430KB, 409x519px

>>91133112
>>91133364
>>91133794
>>91133891
>>91134042
>>91134153
>>91134625
>>91134946
>>91135238
>>91136655
>unironically defending SU's terrible animation

>>91137248
See>>91137067

They want the Koreans to xerox their storyboards for some weird reason

>>91137646
>implying I was defending SU's animation
>implying you even understand why SU's animation is bad

>>91137646
Say what you want about the art style, but the animation's far from terrible.

>>91133589
It's an ugly show to begin with, and the total lack of consistency only makes it worse. Amplified even further by the fact that the series can't decide whether or not to take itself seriously.

>>91137646
I didn't defend it though, in fact, I was implying it was bad.

>>91135069
It's more obvious that they lack standards.

>>91137702
Who are you?
>>91137718
>the animation's far from terrible
>stiff and bland gook garbage
>can't stay on model for a single episode

>>91137718
To be fair the show does look genuinely nice from time to time, it's just not that consistent about it.

>>91132323
You guys must secretly love this show because no other show gets this many threads. That and most of what's being said has been said before.

The mods here suck.

File: sitcom_char_8984.jpg (53KB, 330x598px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 330x598px

>>91132323
It's a perfect case study

>>91137840
>You guys must secretly love this show because no other show gets this many threads
What kinda fucktarded logic is that?

>>91134497
Same with the peridot designs, right?

>>91137894
If the show was simply bad and not popular with the folk, it would've been long forgotten.

>>91137810
Still way less stiff than most other modern cartoons.

>>91135116

>Ooga booga ima amethyst

>>91137931
>>91137894
Why else would you guys make the same threads everyday about this one show?

>>91133589
>not talented enough to be consistent
>"It's a choice, I swear!"
It's not Ren and fucking Stimpy. They haven't demonstrated any technical skill before going off the rails.

>>91133876
How wishy-washy. If you can't commit a character to being a "bad guy," you are a flake. Some ideals just aren't compatible.

>>91138115
Jasper, The Homeworld Rubies, and those Diamonds haven't gotten redemption though.

>>91137925
Duck my sick

>>91138199
Yet.

>>91137925
...what. Blue Jack is meant to be grotesque looking due to Jack's mind being warped further after killing a real person. He'll likely continue getting less and less human as Jack's body count rises.

>>91132323
John K cartoons

File: BadTinyToons6.jpg (29KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 640x480px

>>91132323
Tiny Toons but that was due to 3-5 different studios making shorts.

But the characters would change by a lot between sketches as well as their movements. There were some episodes where they were super squishy and just slowly floated around in the air and squished around for no apparent reason.

>>91134437
This episode always makes me think Greg is the same height as Steven. He just looks like he is two feet tall the whole episode.

>>91138237
They paint the Rubies as jerks. At least two have already shit on Steven.

I think they'll be sympathetic at the very least

>>91138315
All the gems all drawn shorter too even though they're the same height in Universe while Rose is drawn as tall as Garnet usually is

File: hare today 7.jpg (20KB, 320x213px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 320x213px

>>91138263
Man, fuck Kennedy Studios. What a shitpile.

File: wander over yonder Lava theory.jpg (324KB, 1280x828px) Image search: [Google]

324KB, 1280x828px

>>91132327
Wander Over Yonder was pretty consistent. The animators worked hard on that aspect.

>>91132329
>>91132342
Wasn't Bumblebee constantly made out to be human sized, maybe 7 feet tall at most? Then other times he was 12-15 feet tall with people riding on his shoulders.

>>91138434
Craig McCracken is always meticulously planning with model sheets. Course so are all the old cartoon network alumni.

>>91137047
If two people are working on the same show, same episode, they should be more consistent than that. If they aren't held to the same standards, it reeks of unprofessionalism.

>>91138548
How quaint, preparing and being professional.

>>91137067
>>91137687

Stating your intention to lack consistency does not make it any less lazy. Seriously, does your boss tell you it's OK when you tell them you're going to do things however you want at any given time? How many other industries excuse that kind of flippant attitude?