This isn't very good. I don't like Burtons thing of

Yeah but she's hot so it's okay.

>people are too young to have seen this movie

>>90980618
Well that's like, your opinion, y'know?

I like it that it all looks like setpieces and the characters seem self-aware, gives it a very Brechtian vibe that you don't see in films very often.

>>90980618
I unironically love this movie

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.
That's what I like about it, to be honest. It's not interested in making you think that the film represents reality. Everything is part of Burton's vision. I'm not a big fan of Burton but I admire what he did with the film, and think that sort of auterism is missing in modern cape films.

The Crow is a similar example. Modern cape films have a realism fetish (not in terms of trying to follow real physics etc, but in terms of trying to make you think you're watching a representation of reality and not an art piece).

I think it's ok, watch it like once a year maybe, personally I prefer the first one because it was just Burtony enough, this one is full Burton which eh, little too wacky for me

Also, how weird is it that after all these years the only two modern live action Penguins who exist are both nothing like the comic character and pretty much total reimaginings

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.
I think that gives an extra charm to movies from back then. Better than nowadays, where you can tell they're CGI and look like videogames, at any rate.

But yeah, it's a poor adaptation. This one is almost more of a Tim Burton movie than a Batman movie. Nostalgia probably plays a big part on enjoying it.

>>90981242
>and think that sort of auterism is missing in modern cape films.
Zack Snyder is the closest, unironically. He has a clear vision, and he follows through on it.
Just look at BvS. It doubles down on the things people didn't like about MoS.

>>90980618
Have to nth the thing about liking the obvious sets. I actually prefer Batman 89, but I appreciate Returns more for being more confident in what its trying to be.

>>90980975
>tfw seeing it in theaters
Michelle Pfeiffer blew my little mind.

>>90981242
>Modern cape films have a realism fetish
This. I really wanted to like Nolan's movies, but they take themselves too seriously, it knocked me out of the movies. I mean the guy is dressed as a Bat. No amount of realism can make it look 100% serious.

>>90981672
Never understood this argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeEz9oE17ac


is the best scene in a Batmovie

>>90981688
It's hard to explain actually. With Burton, you know you're on another planet. In Batman TAS too. These had an inner logic related to their world. But in Nolans? It's our current world, and whatever he tries, Batman doesn't quite fit in there. He barely even marks this world.

>>90980975
I saw it in the theater it remains my fav batman movie

WRONG

Returns is the best of the original 4

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.
I'm under the impression that you can tell sets are sets in 99% of movies that aren't shot in real locations.

>>90980618
I can see your point, but not how it should matter. Gotham city is full of crazy locations. The Burton movies are the only ones that really take advantage of it.

>>90980618
Depends on your age, I saw this at the theater. Still enjoy it.

>>90980618
>This isn't very good.

Incorrect.

>>90982026
>I can see your point, but not how it should matter. Gotham city is full of crazy locations. The Burton movies are the only ones that really take advantage of it.
....but they don't. That's exactly the problem OP pointed out.

The entire movie took place on like 3 sets.

The abandoned zoo was mostly miniatures, and the Antarctic World soundstage.

Then there was the town square of Gotham, which is seen CONSTANTLY throughout the movie, at night and in broad daylight, and it becomes really obvious it's actually a pretty cramped soundstage. It's nowhere near a city block.

There are some nice motifs to those soundstages - you see a giant face sculpted into a corner at one point, and there are those two cool statues in the aforementioned square, a foreshadowing of the giant statuary built into Schumacher's Gotham, but it's a really cramped movie, even moreso than the first one.

>>90982706
>Schumacher's Gotham
I actually like Schumacher's crazy neon Gotham more than Burton's "I'm Tim Burton" Gotham.

>>90981846
>t's our current world, and whatever he tries, Batman doesn't quite fit in there. He barely even marks this world.
Eh, I disagree. Your point seems weird.

>>90981242
>auterism
Read that as autism, I spend to much time here

>>90982963
>implying TIm Burton doesn't have autism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEHCtqVJyt8

>>90980975

Seeing Michelle Pfeiffer slink around in that outfit kickstarted my main fetish for latex and the like years before I knew what it actually was.

>>90982941
Yeah, hard to explain, not my native language. Point is, I didn't like Nolan's Batman, and I'm the kind of idiot who happily throw money at anything with a batsignal.

>>90981380
And he doesnt try to make it look realistic. to this day people complain ovr doomsday or the suprman montage thinkinh th cgi is bad

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.

And??

>>90983046
But his films borrow heavily from the comics.
Year One for BB
Long Halloween and TKJ for TDK

>>90982941
>Your point seems weird.
Not him but maybe I can expand on that.

If you ask me to believe a normal guy dressed as a bat can fight crime just because he's that awesome, and that happens in a weird world where the rules of reason are obviously not the same as ours, I'll have an easier time than believing it could happen in a world that is basically the same as ours.

Like the sky-surfing in B&R looks silly, but it's in a sea of weird shit that shows that their world obviously doesn't work the same as ours, it would look a lot sillier in the middle of TDK.

>>90983076
But the comics started out as Batman just being a dude whose parents died and decided to scare criminals by dressing up like a bat.
Crazier things have happened in real life.

>>90983067
Yeah, I see the references, but they're just references. The world is still ours, most characters use our logics, and are just a copypaste from Batman's universe. The world is bland, and it makes the characters look ridiculous. Gotham and Bats should complement each other, yet it's only a man dressed as a bat in Chicago.

>>90983174
The comics started out with Batman fighting fucking Dracula man

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>>90983199
I agree, the Nolan Gotham really has no character or identity. In the first 4 films the city was a character itself

>>90983199
>>90983258
The Narrows in BB have a very strong "feel" though.
Stop being reductive.

>>90983294
To you, maybe

>>90983343
dumb phoneposter

>>90983174
>Crazier things have happened in real life.
Crazier things than someone effectively fighting crime for decades without guns dressed as a bat AND NOT DYING?
Nah.

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>>90980618
Movie fucking sucked. His first foray was pretty alright, even good. The Jim Carry buffonery or Swarzanegger shit after it were terrible too. I guess to go on down that line, the Nolan ones were shit other than Heath Ledger's performance, but not nearly as bad as the ones before it.

Like, who keeps producing Tim Burton movies? The only one he knocked out of the park was Pee Wee's Big Adventure, and even then there's no way you can pin it solely on him.

>>90983368
How is this supposed to be an insult again?

You can do better than that

>>90983419
>for decades
see
>>90983174
>the comics started out

I find myself enjoying it now more than I did as a childhood, but yeah. They gave Burton a bit too much freedom with Returns.

>>90983457
It's an insult because phoneposters are less likely to spend long amounts of time in a discussion and a re prone to drive-by shitposting because they are out doing things.

>>90980618

Well that's like your opinion man

I hated the Nolan films

>>90983502
You can like both.

>>90983484
So it's a compliment?

>Well you're such a loser you're out doing something instead of sitting at a PC taking this argument seriously!

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>>90983294
>>90983343
Some establishing shots have a lot of personality, but when a lot of the most remarkable scenes happen in places that look like "generic city #347", it kinda cancels it. It's not filmed in Vancouver tier, but still, it looks like some random city most of the time.

>>90983516
>So it's a compliment?
No.
see
>>90983484
>phoneposters are less likely to spend long amounts of time in a discussion and a re prone to drive-by shitposting because they are out doing things.

>>90983558
That screams gothic to me though.
Look at the colors.
It's the lighting and color timing that Nolan uses, not flashy matte paintings like Burton.

>>90983458
And that's relevant why?
Fine, forget about the "for decades" part, realistically he should have fucking died, as Joker once said "the first time he jumped off a roof".

>>90983484
So what the fuck is your excuse?

>>90983601
And realistically and orange tv host wouldn't become the most powerful man in the world, yet here we are.

>stranger than fiction

>>90983623
For what?

>>90983558
>>90983596

Just looks like your normal downtown to me, I can find the same shit in any city in my state

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.
Is it fun not watching movies made before 1990?

>>90980618
the only bad bit about everything being sets is that the Batmobile never got a good chase sequence and everything feels claustrophobic

would be interesting to see what Burton could have done if he had modern CGI technology and make a a vast city scape turn into his demented gothic vision.

other than that. Batman Returns is one of the few actually rewatchable CapeFlicks

>>90983596
>That screams gothic to me though.
I don't think that's what that word means, in terms of architecture at least I'm fairly certain.
>Look at the colors.
Okay. Looks pretty damn generic still. Lots of greys and yellows. Lighting is sweet, sure.

>>90983637
>Just looks like your normal downtown to me
We must just look at things differently, because TDK has a real tinge of the gothic to me.

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>>90983634
>post ironically phone posting

>>90983624
>And realistically and orange tv host wouldn't become the most powerful man in the world
Donald Trump is not just a TV host and the POTUS is arguably not the most powerful man in the world. Besides a celebrity getting popular vote has happened a ton before. Either way the most unlikely person to get elected still wouldn't defy the laws of physics the way Batman does on the regular.
Want to try that again?

>>90983749
>Want to try that again?
No, I made my point.
You're just doing that thing where since you have a different opinion, you minimize my point.

>>90983694
I don't think you know what Gothic is.

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>>90983694

>>90983791
>No, I made my point.
You clearly didn't.
How physics differ from popular election is not an opinion.

>>90983833
>You clearly didn't.
Source?

>>90983808
>>90983812
?

>>90983840
>>90983623

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>>90983850
Are you on a run to beat shitposting records or something?

>>90984188

>>90983046
>I didn't like Nolan's Batman
I honestly don't care for Nolan at all except for The Prestige

>>90981672
Every time I see Nolan's Batman in those armors, it turns me off the movies.

>>90983558
I'll admit THIS specific scene kinda looked like the Burton movies to me when I watched it. Maybe it's a homage to the older movies, or something? I get the impression during most of Nolan's movies, Gotham doesn't look anything like that. Even the yellowed/red sky in Begins felt off to me.

I like how they made Selina every bit as fucked up as the usual freaks Batman fights. I thought that was an interesting angle to go with her other than the usual fun loving cat burglar. Penguin just didn't work though, not for the hideous freak angle per say, that's been done well often enough with Cobblepot. It's the juxtaposition between Nicholson Joker style one liners and the whole child snatching pied piper thing. Feels like two different villains crammed into one.

>>90980618
>You can tell that the sets are sets.
That's exactly why Burton's Gotham is best Gotham

>>90983294
Yeah, I prefer BB to the others for this reason. Gotham still has a lot of character. The narrows looks like this exaggerated, wet, industrial hellpit.

Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises are just Chicago and Manhattan. It's annoying.

>>90982941
Not that anon, but the anon who made the original point he was coming off.

Batman is a character who is primarily symbolically driven. He's more a cipher for these ideas of revenge and justice than a character in the sense we're used to seeing in most serious drama, and that is best reflected in the world around him.

Think of the recolours of The Killing Joke. Originally it was garish and clashing, yes, but that artstyle befit a book that focused on a the Joker, that focused on his madness. The recolours, with dull blues and browns, might have been more realistic but they serve to do nothing beyond making the story seems less flat.

In a visual medium, for a story like this, I feel like set design and colour should pull a lot more weight than Nolan has them do.

>>90980618
>you can tell that the sets are sets
I dislike using this term but holy shit you are a pleb.
I've seen people criticize this movie on acting, story, and etc, but production design ? Arguably the movie's strongest point ?
Absolutely ridiculous.

>>90980618
Batman Returns and Spider-Man 2 are the only movies that actually deserve the title of capekino

>>90985634
The only reason the recolor sucks is because everything looks like plastic.
The colors themselves are fine.

>>90980975
I doubt OP is old enough to even be allowed here.
Then again, this is /co/

>>90983174
The comics, yes, but Nolan insisted on trying to tack in as much edgy realism as possible

>>90985855
>edgy
What?
What about the Nolan movies is edgy?
This word is thrown around way too much here.

>>90980618
I want to defend this,
But honestly it's been too long for me to be sure it still holds up.

I know last time I watched it I though some of the more silly Penguin stuff was not interesting to me (like that kiddie car he somehow uses to hack the batmobile)

>>90985881
realism is dgy.

This is a board of manchildren, anything that isnt forkids is considered edgy or try hard

>>90980618
>I don't like Burtons thing
Shut your whore mouth

>>90987131
>implying there is anything realistic about Nolan's messes

>>90985855
Nolan's films aren't edgy.
They are ridiculous, bloated and insist on being "dark" but they aren't edgy.

>>90987264
I didnt implied that.

>>90985855
>The comics, yes, but Nolan insisted on trying to tack in as much edgy realism as possible

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>>90987131
>heh, i guess those films were too realistic for you, kiddo

>>90980975
Should I?
The zombie chick looks hot.

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>Let's have a villain who is deformed and lives in the sewers.
>Killer Croc?
>No, Penguin!

>>90987388
Killer Croc can't run for mayor and hope to succeed.

It's a fun movie, but not a good Batman movie. People say that about The Dark Knight, but i think it applies more for Batman Returns.

> Ctrl+f Walken
> No results

No mention of the best villain? Also if you watch Returns again pay attention for the two scenes with Walken's son. The actor is trying his best to mimic Walken's speech pattern

https://youtu.be/PZE1oht2ZxY?t=2m14s

>>90988853
And is retarded for both. Batman works on different genres and styles. It's a dumb meme opinion.

>>90988174
That's racist.

>>90980618
>Prime Michelle Pfeiffer in black leather catsuit
>Christopher Walken being.... the B-villain whose sole goal... is to steal... electricity.
>All those Circus gang members getting BTFO moments
>Penguin's mobile penguin rocket army
>Pee-wee Herman as Penguin's dad
>Burton's classic Gothic aesthetics
>Catwoman literally has nine lives
>Penguin driving the Batmobile remotely with his kid-sized Batman replica
>All that sexual tension

Nah, it's fantastic.

Batman Forever was ahead of its time

>Blonde hair

>>90989484
>All those Circus gang members getting BTFO moments


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULSvR6hhyI

>>90980618
>it's another thread about someone complaining that Batman Returns was too much for them
I never expected this movie to be a genuine pleb filter

>>90989610
Meh, I like the movie for it's own merits but to me it really does sit somewhere between Batman and the two that came after it in terms of corniness

Making Catwoman a sort of supernatural character with no explanation for how or why it happened other than magic cat power, Penguin somehow having a...psychic bond with real penguins, and gags like Bruce Wayne record scratching with a cd rom all kind of cheapen the movie to me

At the end of the day I don't hate it and I can handle a level of camp (I'd say the first movie had it's fair share of sillyness, just not to these levels) mixed with darkness, or even full on camp/humor preferrably in the form of animation (BATB) but live action cartoons like the Shoe-Maker movies aren't really my bag and Batman Returns is sort of nearing that direction, only with being much darker, SAY LA VEE

>>90980618
I love this movie and try to watch it every Christmas. As a kid, Michelle's Catwoman was everything to me.

>>90981242
>That's what I like about it, to be honest. It's not interested in making you think that the film represents reality.
You took the words right out of my mouth. The sets look cool, I wouldn't have it any other way.

>>90985634
This exactly. Thank you for explaining clearly. Nolan doesn't use symbolism, or use it at a very basic level (there is no poetry in what he does). He had the same problem with Inception, a movie about dream devoid of onirism.

>>90983067
Not any more than Akito Kurosawa's influence on George Lucas makes Star Wars a Japanese period piece.

>>90983002
so he just kinda stares at them and they poke fun at him?
what is this clip its so weird

>>90983484
DELET

Batman Returns is a really solid film.

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>>90980618
This film was also nominated for the Oscar for Best Use of White Facepaint back in '92, but lost to Bram Stoker's Dracula, which had white facepaint and FANGS.

Seriously, the Best Makeup Oscar is kinda a joke.