Have cartoons gotten worse? Not talking just animation

Animation-wise? Yes definitely, the problem with Adventure Time minimalist artstyle and storyboard driven shows cause a habit of lack of consistency and less effort required to make a show. Any schmuck can get his art on the screen, whether or not it's particualrly talented.

Writing wise? I'd argue things have gotten better as more writers are now being able to experiment more. It doesn't always work mind you but now we have more storydriven and grandeur plots then usual.

>>90753891

Comedy? Same floor, higher cieling.

Action? Dark days.

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Yes, but I don't think it's due to a deficit in talent or changing demographics or whatever. I think networks are simply more chickenshit than they've ever been. The shifts in the media landscape have made the already dubiously cost-effective medium of animation even more ponderous an option, so even fewer risks are being taken.

The people who made all the good old shit are still mostly out there. They're just not given the chance to do anything other than a carbon copy of some existing shit. The folks who sign the checks wanna play it safe.

The best you can hope for is a situation like Japan, where TV animation is used as promotional material for games/books/movies/whatever. But if the Disney-produced Marvel shows and the recent DC DTV movies are any indicator, that sure as fuck is no guarantee in regards to quality.

>>90753891
Haven't we already had this thread this week? Let alone this day?

>>90754147
We have a ton of threads every day, or at least every other day. Get used to it.

>>90754205
>>90754147
*tons of the same thread

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>>90753891

>>90754147
This isn't a forum, newfag. 4chan has high traffic throughout the day. Threads come and go in a matter of hours, sometimes less. Not everyone sees them so duplicate threads are bound to happen.

>>90754318
>This isn't a forum
But it is, just an anonymous one

>>90753891
Mostly yes, they've gotten worse. Animation and art direction especially so. Budget's are pathetically cheap now.

Writing on the other hand has been mixed bag. It's gotten better and more "adult" with the comedy/nu-CalArts shows like Steven Universe Adventure Time, Gravity Falls and the like and in return they're no longer completely episodic but somewhat interconnected through a loose plot or narrative. But in return, action-oriented shows (especially original ones) have essentially died off as a result.

Overall, yeah, it's gotten worse.

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No.

Everyday single day for years has been a thread about doomsaying current cartoons, give it a fucking break

>>90754343
4chan uses an image board format. Not forum. Just because discussion sometimes happens here in between shitposting, doesn't make this place the same as CBR forums or some other hugbox.

>>90754683
The thing people don't get is that cartoons have been doomed since Steamboat Willie.

Well besides SJ, there are no action cartoons airing anymore, so, in my opinion yes

>>90754683 how about no because threads like these pose a good question. go complain about the constant barrage of black cock threads on /b/.

>>90753891
Absolutely. Animation peaked when I, the person making this post, was 12 years old.

>>90753891
>Have cartoons gotten worse?

Yes and no.

Art style has seriously suffered. Not just because of "Lol cal arts", but the more important part is that very few shows are making use of their limited style. You could not have picked a better example than in the OP. Jack is extremely limited in it's animation a lot of times, just look at the recent episode and compare how often it's just a still frame or Jack is stock still when Scatbot is styling. Even so, it uses color and minimalist design to carve a distinct and memorable scene every time. Very few comedy show do this now.

In story progressing and CD, yes and no. We kind of peaked on stuff like Avatar the Last Airbender, or JLU if you want a more 'episodic' example with an overarching story, in those cases episodes had long lasting consequences that reached from the very first episode till the very end, characters evolved and change and went through arcs, and each self-contained story had a clear idea of how it fit into the grander story save some missteps. Action shows locked into a narrative that had progression after this, bucking the trend even BTAS fell into, and Young Justice, GLTAS, Tron, even yes Korra had all these traits, less episode by episode and always thinking about the season's story.

They weren't the first or the only ones in that timeframe, they sure as hell weren't the most popular, but the fact so many of them happened so quickly and together was a good sign. Things improved for action shows narrative.

But in the realm of comedy, yeah. They're finally progressing to have some semblance of plot in a few shows like SU or Star Vs. It's not direct, it's very padded and loose in a lot of cases, but comedy shows just almost never had a 'plot' before. Face it, the humor of Hey Arnold or Early Spongebob was not narrative driven. Comedy is finally almost catching up to a regular action show in plot, and hopefully things will keep improving.

>>90753891
There is less views and less budget. T.V. as a media is slowly dying.

>>90753891
For all the shit SU and AT get they definitely show better writing and more detailed and coherent lore and more adult themes and interesting experimental stories than shows did a decade ago, and even more compared to 2 or 3 decades ago.

>>90753891
Guess what, SJ(w) fan base has only been revived here for about a week and it's already worse than any other one save for SU.

Wish Cartoon Network would die already.

>>90757331
Can't we like SU for what it is AND like SJ for what it is? The only things they have in common are that they aired on Cartoon Network, star a male main character, and were made by Americans.

Time slot, characters, genre, themes, storytelling, episode length, number of episodes/seasons, air dates, cartoon generation, art style, everything else is different.

Why can't I like multicolored lesbians AND a samurai chopping robots in half?

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>>90757187
We could of fixed it, it happen once before.

>>90757561
Both show were made in Korea and Genndy was born in Russia.
>>90757331
Also fujos with Voltron:LD.

>>90755336
If you asked me a question and we had a good discussion on it, and then you asked me the same question four-plus times a day, I'd stab you in the fucking throat and wouldn't stop until the cops found me hunched over the raspberry jam looking mess that was once you.

Fuck you.

>>90753891
Animation as a whole has kind of gone down the shitter since the 50s. There was a massive improvement in the 90s, especially with all the 2D features, but now in the 2010s they've mostly been replaced by CG and shows are much cheaper. It's still better than the 60's-80s but it's nowhere near what it used to be.

>>90758831
60s still tried, it was the 70s that was trash and things got better in the 80s.

>>90753891
Worse? A bit. I don't want to go full nostalgiafag, but the problem is that we see things lack serious experimentation with too much of a focus on comedy.

Though most of the problem really lies with Cartoon Network it seems. Netflix might be the savior of cartoons that we need and I really hope that the success of Samurai Jack's return leads to a new golden age of action and story-oriented cartoons.

>>90758994
Netflix is only making things worse and in the end, if you are not making cartoons for what they are made for then you might as well do it in live action.

What we want is 40s grade animation back, the 80s & 90s did it.

I'm kind of hoping that Jack will do well so that we can get better animation for a more adult audience. I don't think it will literally save the industry but maybe it could get the ball rolling or start a trend

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>>90759271
Someone told me that

Good animation = for kids
Bad animation = for adults

But I'm sure that is fake, Family Guy's market went nuts over Korra & Voltron:LD so that market does want good animation and that most of Korra's market was over 18 anyway.

The thing we want is to put Mir to shame, also modern kids show don't have good animation in them anyway so getting 40s grade animation back is a must.

You can start fixing the industry by reading this.

>>90753891
nice bait post OP

I love how you ask a vague question and then clarify that you mean the vaguest possible thing by it

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>>90753891
fuck off retard

>>90759142
>Netflix is only making things worse

How so? They're picking up riskier stuff than the CN, Nick, Disney and the other networks, so it seems.

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>>90755314
tmnt

Sonic Boom

Guardians of the Galaxy

Star Wars Rebels

Ben 10

Star vs. The Forces of Evil

Mighty Magiswords

rwby

Justice League Action

Adventure Time

Marvel's Avengers Assemble

Miraculous Ladybug

Vixen

steven universe sometimes

and the new spiderman that's coming out

>>90761568
But don't GoTG animated and Avengers suck tho?

And I thought AT, MM and Sonic Boom cater mostly to comedy?

>>90758831
Maybe if you stopped comparing a very small number of theatrical shorts animated animated by a single studio for showing before feature films to cartoons mass produced to sell merchandise. You can easily find top-notch animation today, you're just not going to find it on Cartoon Network or Disney XD.

>>90755314
That's bullshit though.

All of what >>90761568 listed, plus Voltron.

But granted most of a good deal of them are mediocre are bad. It's more like original action cartoons or new IPs are dead. Pretty much every action cartoon is some kind of reboot/spinoff/iteration/etc of a past or currently existing IP - Samurai Jack included.

Which further demonstrates how dead and creatively bankrupt the action genre really is now.

>>90754003
The writing has definitely improved, or at least been allowed to go in different directions more often then not.

>>90761717
Eh
Sonic Boom and Mighty Magiswords are very comedy oriented but all of the other shows anon listed are action oriented

>>90761717
no Avengers and GoTG are fine its just guys that jerk off at every episode of earth's mightiest heroes think its bad

>>90753891
No, your just being a picky shithead who hates anything new

>>90754050
Spbp

>>90754599
Budgets are high, but how much of it goes towards what you see on the screen is another question, and then you have to take into account the skill of the creators and their overseas studio.

>>90761786
>Samurai Jack included.

No, it's not.

Samurai Jack is a limited series to conclude a story that never got to finish.
That's not the same as creating a brand new TMNT or Ben10 series.

>>90753891
Cartoons have always been shit with a few gems here and there released over the years.

>>90763328
And speaking of budgets, I found this:

http://www.powerhouseanimation.com/about/animgraph/

It lists very few shows so it's not that useful, but budgets for 2000s shows are higher than pre-90s show (adjusted for inflation). If there's a particularly high budget you can almost certainly attribute it to voice acting costs.

>>90753891
I wouldn't say worse but the fact that if you enter the field of animation you are basically setting yourself up for a life of pain and no credit. I'd rather become a game dev, where even if i get screwed over, chances are some niche group of basement dwellers will pity me.

>>90763412
Chart is out of wack, South Park does not cost $250,000 to make 1 episode and Fosters was only $10,000 a episode.

>>90753891
You've grown up. Biggest problem with all cartoons is all you grownup nerds demanding more from children's shows

>>90763799
Dude, we debunked this countless times.

>>90761786
>Which further demonstrates how dead and creatively bankrupt the action genre really is now.
If only there was a way to make an action cartoon without being a slave to franchising.

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>>90753891
Someone post the comic!

You know the one...

>>90753891
It's ironic that an image mean to evoke the idea of current cartoons being terrible uses a screencap of Finn from like 7 years ago.

>>90753891
No, your nostalgia just remembers the best toons.

>>90763786
$250,000 is low by American standards, and the voice actors must be pretty well-compensated by now.

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>>90763826
That Comic is NSFW, but heres the clean one.

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>>90753891
Well yeah. When we get older cartoons are no longer for adults. We get used to the same lame old shitty half assed shit we had to swallow as children and then we see it when we get older and just not want to tolerate it anymore. Also we're in an era where they are actually trying new things and are shaping the future once again.

But one fact remains, regardless of how old you are. Regardless of how you much you love cartoons. There will always be some shows you love and some shows you hate and then most sane people will find certain shows harmless.We did this as children and we do this as adults and you all know this.

>>90763841
Can't seem to find the original with GIS.

>>90763838
$250,000 should net you a show around the level of Mir's network episodes of Korra ($200,000-300,000 a episode), heck Voltron:LD is only $60,000-90,000 a episode and that show is leaps and bounds above South Park which only uses $1000-2000 a episode.

Spongebob only cost $500,000 once, and that is for when they had to fly a man in a gorilla suit to Seoul and back to wack a sack so that they can rotoscope it as Patrick, the rest of the show is only $20,000-70,000 per short, $300,000 for the Patchy specials.

>>90763922
The budget means the total episode budget with everything included, not just the animation budget (and where are you getting the numbers for those?).

>>90763909
GIS had nothing to do with it, in fact the original lacked Smol Nozomi in it, it was about Fred getting out of the tub to avoid getting hit in the head with the paper (he did) and the Paper boy banging his wife.

We can't show that in a blue board so take the SFW version instead.

>>90763940
I am talking about the whole budget and I deal with project budgets all the time at my job (I'm on the inside).

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>>90763922
>Spongebob only cost $500,000 once, and that is for when they had to fly a man in a gorilla suit to Seoul and back to wack a sack

>>90763954
Every source I've found for American TV animation budgets put them in the $500,000-2,000,000 range.

>>90763980
The episode literally had a man with a gorilla suit in it. You don't remember it?

>>90763980
Plane trips are expensive.
>>90763984
Not since years ago.

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>>90763994
I would of never guessed that that scene had cost half a million to produce.

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>>90763994
See.

>>90764003
Again, plane trips are expensive.

>>90764002
I'm going to take "every source I've found" over "I'm on /co/ and I'm an industry insider."

>>90753891
Animation wise yes it's all too similar

Writing wise no there was always good stuff and shit and it will always be this way

>>90764030
were there just NO gorilla suits in korea at the time?

>>90764347
They probably wanted to use a clean one.

>>90764355
This.

>>90753891
Yes. But at least we still have anime.

>>90764406
Just about.

>>90754003
While I'd agree that writing as a whole or as a process has improved I don't think there are many well written modern shows. Those that are are just on par with retro shows. The difference was the retro shows
a) never pretended they were anything special
b) actually had good writting more often than we seen in today's industry, abliet more derivative.

>>90761717
>implying SU isn't worse than both

>>90761878
I wish EMH was back. While it's whiny there's nothign wrong with upping your standards a little. Why shouldn't things be as good as EMH?

>>90753891
Not really.Admittedly we have shit like new powerpuff girls but shows like AT,SU and GF opened path for cartoons with ongoing plots.You can cry about how they are shit or whatever but they have made a mark,and if you dont like them,eventually you will get one you like BECAUSE of these shows.
May i remind you there was a time where 90% of the cartoons where wacky comedy and nothing else.Now we have shows with depth.
Let me put it this way.In the past we had whats new scooby doo,yet another basic scooby doo show thats the same as every other scooby doo show.But this generation we had mystery incorporated,a clever change to the franchise thats considered the best thing to come out of scooby doo.

>>90764522
Avatar came out before AT, SU and GF, and probably wasn't the first series with a plot. And do those three even have plots?

>>90754003
>animation has gotten worse
hanna barbara says hi

>>90764569
Ed Benedict & Dick Bickenbach were excellent, it's only when Joe Ruby, Ken Spears and Iwao Takamoto took over the company is when they lost it and even still Filmation was much worse.

>>90764569
What exactly is wrong with Hannah-Barbera? Of course a studio of the 70's would use the same animation-techniques and artstyles for cartoons THEY created, it's not like how it is nowadays where everything is bright pastel colors and chibified appearances with rounded edges.

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>>90764622
I just leave this here.

>>90764735
How is this relevant to animations???

>>90765323
Color pallets.

>>90764569
Canada is where animation died, HB survived as much as they could on "limited but competent", but the Flash era just showed them it's easier to lower the public standard than continuing trying.
There's not Quality control jobs anymore in more mainstream shows because statistically nobody gives a shit anymore.
It's not even new, the 80's transformers and Gi Joe shows already proved that.

>>90765371
Why didn't you post one that had actual cartoons in it as an example instead of video games?

>>90765420
Japan will like to have a word with you.

Also...
>It's not even new, the 80's transformers and Gi Joe shows already proved that.
And then Gummi Bears, Original DuckTales and Bakshi Mighty Mouse fixed it.

It can be done again.

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its all worse , all talent has left earth.
i dont blame them i would leave if i had a way.

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I really don't know either way, but doesnt it seem like Japanese studios make a much better animated product per dollar than we do over here? I always hear about them having low budgets. Guess the voice actors are cheaper sometimes but i feel like we are bloated, paying a lot for people who don't give a damn.

>>90764522
>AT,SU and GF
Avatar ended several years before the earliest of those premiered, and there were actually a slew of cartoons with an ongoing plot in the 80's-90's, even if they often didn't last long. I mean fucking The 13 Ghosts of Scooby Doo, not minding the quality, was a show with a central plot and progression.

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>>90765726
They pay their animators abysmal wages, that's how they keep everything so cheap.

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>>90765431
Ok then I will.

>>90765814
Thankfully, not all studios are like this, in fact most of them are not like this, just the very low end one who are even cheaper then Korea.

>>90765989
I don't think you understand what good color is....

>>90766034
I do, I do this type of stuff for a living.

Crayon box colors = bad

>>90765814
They don't pay anyone a lot of money. Even producers make middle class money. In America there's this notion that if you're in showbiz then you have to be paid a gorillion dollars.

And it's not all about money. If you give shitty animators a million dollars they aren't going to somehow produce fantastic animation.

>>90766115
TMS says otherwise, it's why studios like Wang, Koko/Dong Yang and Akom were used by Warner Bros in the first place, otherwise it will be nothing but TMS, Spectrum and Startoons.

>If you give shitty animators a million dollars they aren't going to somehow produce fantastic animation.
This however is true.

>>90766047
aren't you good color examples crayon box colored over saturated,examples tho?

>>90765989
More of this please

>>90766047
So, what are some modern cartoons with good colors

>>90766253
No, Korra & Voltron:LD uses crayon box colored over saturated colors, whats on the good list does not, they use rich endearing colors like a Ghibli movie.

>>90765989
Can you define what makes Avatar and Korra have bad colors?

>>90759142
>40s grade animation
John K. get off /co/.

The economic and technical factors that lead to that entertainment industry are gone. The current problem isn't low budgets it's missuse of a limitied medium. Samurai Jack makes good use of its minimalistic art style and still manages to have excellent action set pieces.

3DCG cartoons have even reached a point where they can match the dynanism of traditional 2D animation when given overview by the right talent.

TV is dying, long live the stream service.

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>>90766267
>More of this please
Ok then.
>So, what are some modern cartoons with good colors
Little Witch Academia and Nobunaga's Shinobi.

>>90754689

An image board is a type of forum you retard.

>>90766283
Except they have less saturation than the ones on the right, you autistic fuck.
Just kill yourself, famicom.

>>90766328
Why would I watch gay shit like that when I can watch dragon maid?

>>90766047
You can shitpost for a living?

>>90766295
Brown & gray, much worse then pink & purple and what ever real colors are there are all crayon box colors (0:255:0 for green for example).
>>90766311
Explain why Japan does it all the time then.

But yea TV is dying.

>>90766328
>Little Witch Academia and Nobunaga's Shinobi.
That is not a cartoon.

>>90766385

Either you don't know what a cartoon is or you're pretending to be retarded.

>>90766330
That is false, they're everything the higher up told us what is bad about said coloring.
>>90766354
They put Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid to shame.

>>90766413
You are the one pretending to be retarded. We are talking about western animation not about anime

>>90766422
>the higher up
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>90766385
But heres the thing, modern cartoons don't hand good coloring, it's just crayon box colors and brown & gray.

Anime still tries.

>>90766354
>why would I watch gay shit when I can watch gay shit?
What did he mean by this?

>>90766444
Big shots in the industry.

>>90766438

>a motion picture consisting of a sequence of drawings, each so slightly different that when filmed and run through a projector the figures seem to move

A cartoon is a cartoon regardless of style or where it's made.

>>90766422
looking at them under a bw color blend mode the ones on the right do use a different technique but it seems most largely connected to the backgrounds which on the whole are much less saturated. Also none on the right try to use inverse of of having the characters in the foreground be dark compared to the background and not all the right examples are good and not all the left examples are really on the same level.

1) Animation studios used to be saddled with low budgets and inefficient programs like Flash because of the financial crisis - people simply didn't have the money or inclination for another high-budget high-profile production like a DuckTales or Tiny Toons. After years of cheap and profitable garbage on the air, low budgets and inefficient outdated programs simply became The Done Thing and it was considered too expensive to upgrade, even to easy software that Japanese studios had been using for years.

2) Because of the above constraints, artists with a high degree of stylisation were prioritised when it came to art direction - stuff that would be simpler to animate or tween. Show directors with a base knowledge of animation and stylisation, would be superficially imitated by their juniors who lacked the base knowledge, producing their own shows that were essentially a photocopy of the original, a degredation in quality. This process lead to photocopies of photocopies being the norm, and worse yet, talented animators with actual interesting styles being diluted down into copypaste shows for TV pilots and series.

I'm of the belief we're in a renaissance of animation, the revival of the 1960's/1970's era of Hanna-Barbera and Filmation. Eventually some high-profile company will wake up and smell the coffee, and give enough of a damn to start putting out high-profile television animation again rather than reducing good animation down to pseudo-pseudo-UPA dreck.

Comedy has taken a real fucking nose dive for most (see Cartoon Network) shows.

Gotta get your awkward middle class quirks out via the medium I suppose

>>90766524
problem always comes down to risk and reward tho. Initial investment to high for most companies and even live action T.V. is still adjusting to new business models ever since teh internet started ruining advertising models of old.

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>>90766448
Gumball used to have some good colors

>>90766604
Live action sets don't count.

>>90766413
I don't know about Nobunaga, but Little Witch Academia isn't a cartoon. It's anime.

>>90766480
That definition is wrong.

>>90766902
Anime and cartoons are different, separate forms of animation.

>>90764560
>And do those three even have plots?

Yes, SU is about the evils of the Patriarchy and how women should revolt and be total dykes. GF is about how evil males are for wanting females to face the consequences of their decisions (seriously, woman facing any sort of responsibility? Come the fuck on, you patriarch, Mabel deserved her own paradise, fuck Dipper for wanting to save the patriarchal planet Earth).

And AT is about bashing masculinity and making a little boy feel alienated by the epitome of immortal lipstick lesbians so he can grow up with mental issues and become a girl by cutting his dick.

>>90763947
i demand the original a cheap copy wont suffice

>>90766628
Why not?

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>>90758828...really?, all over this?. what I meant is that it's a question that has multiple answers because cartoons change over time. it's a discussion, chill.

>>90764016
That episode was so fucking surreal

>>90755707
Honestly I thought the new Jack episode had on par animation compared to the other seasons, certainly better when it comes to the action. I assume because of how "easier" it is with digital animation tools nowadays.

>>90757561
Well one has some hamfisted stuff in it and the other is just visually more interesting and creative. And the writing is better in that it succeeds in what it wants to do. SU I find boring but whatever I don't necessarily care if anyone likes it, I'm just giving my reasons on why one is better than the other in my opinion

4chan, rate this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XufoBC7yzFM

>>90768906
Пpocти, aнoн. У мeня пocлe гoвнopэпчикa в пepвoй cepии из yшeй дo cих пop кpoвь идёт.
Я бoюcь cмoтpeть дaжe.

>>90769097
Pэпa бoльшe нeт. Хoтя в кaждoй cepии ктo-тo пытaeтcя cнять мyзклип.

>>90769141
Hy лaднo тoгдa. Пpoтив pэпa в цeлoм ничeгo нe имeю, нo этo был пиздeц.

>>90765814
Why would anybody work in animation then? The work pay ratio is horrible.

I doubt this pic.

>>90769932
The annual average income of a key animator is 2.82 billion yen / 24,870 dollars according to JANICA. For in-betweeners it's 1.1 billion / 9,800 dollars.

People work in animation because they want to be animators.

>>90753891
Cartoons are more expensive to produce then TV shows, but the goal is still commercialism.
Keep in mind, producing a cartoon is a huge risk because of how pricey it is to animate.
If a cartoon does below average, breaks even or is a moderate success then it is considered a commercial failure.

>>90765814
So get rid of voice animators and use texttowav on everything?

>>90770211
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/business/media/05cable.html
>So the cable shows are produced at lower costs — closer to $2 million an episode on average, as opposed to about $3 million for network shows.

I think The Simpsons is the most expensive animation on TV, and it's $2 million per episode. So live action is definitely more expensive. The reason why The Simpsons is so expensive is because the voice actors are so expensive. Animation is not that expensive, but paying voice actors, writers and producers is.

>>90770458
>$2 million an episode on average
>not that expensive

>>90770485
That's live action, not animation.

You can call me bait and shit on me all you want but I actually enjoy The Loud House. It's probably the only recent cartoon I've been able to watch and legitimately enjoy.
Hope the 5th season of Samurai Jack is a success so Tartakovsky can work on more shows.

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>>90770105
>People work in animation because they want to be animators.
This

>>90771283
>People work in animation because they want to animate their own cartoons
ftfy

>>90771330
Oops, thanks senpai

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>>90753891

You should count animated films too. Really the only truly competent animation studio today is Laika since they don't try to aim their films at the lowest common denominator and actually put effort into their animation.

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>>90765989

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>>90771442
>CGI animation is not animation

>>90770284
That's annual income, not a ratio of where an anime's budget goes. A-list voice actors are basically idols and make big chunks of money from things like concerts, public appearances, and other such things. They also tend to work on way more different series per year than most of the other staff, so they collect a paycheck from each of them. (KanaHana once appeared in 8 anime during a single season)

>>90772106
Not that anon but I agree with him. Too many 3D animation studios out there aren't willing to experiment with art direction at all - especially in the case for movies.

>>90753891
no, they're better than ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXpWAO0F7ck

>>90768906
кaжeтcя, нoвый эпизoд дoлжeн был выйти нeдaвнo

>>90766628
>>90768032
he's baiting you, nothing in gumball is live, it's all rendered

Outside of the Spielberg renaissance in the 90's, they're better than they theyve ever been. Between western and easternmost animation there's more long form and character driven she owns the than ever before. You're just jaded because 70% of the threads on /co/ are dedicated to stupid trash shows and the porn thereof.

>>90767357

You sound like a crazy person.