Why does Marvel get shit for having diverse legacy heroes when

>>90659104
Not a legacy.

>>90659104
They didn't get rid of Clark Kent as Superman to introduce Chinese Superman, they both existed at the same time.

One, not a legacy or replacement.

Two, it's all about the execution. Marvel's problem isn't the legacies, or even the forced diversity. Their problem is that their books are written like shit.

What I love about New Super-Man is that he is literally Chinese knockoff Superman, yet at the same time, because it's an actual good story, it works great

that's good writing

>>90659104
New-Supes
>Not legacy
>Well executed
>Incorporates Chinese mythology well into the core of his powers

New Falcon
>Random border crossing Mexican experimented on to be an actual bird person which leads to a horrible design
>Used as political propaganda by Spencer, putting him in stories involving riots
>Has no real personality other than "We're oppressed!"

>>90659104
Because Gene Luen Yang is a much better and successful writer than the hacks writing Marvel's legacy characters.

Because diverse legacy heroes are not bad and, in fact, DC has perfected the art of it as they've been doing it longer. Marvel is just really obnoxious with their promotion of new characters and they don't have good creators to even treat the characters well. Like right now DC has cute black genius girls but they don't shove them in your face. At Marvel they have to be ABSOLUTELY THE SMARTEST EVER.

>>90659120
This is incorrect unless you have a very strict definition of the word legacy that doesn't apply to most characters.

>Chinese Superman
>his name isn't Dat Ho

>>90659104
DC have had Legacy heroes for decades and spend ages bringing more diverse characters in and almost always having the older generation treated with respect or as a mentor to the new one.
Because they have the JSA they have system in-universe to facilitate the older characters helping the younger ones AND the newer characters don't have to carry a title alone as a result.

Marvel did most of theirs waaaay too fast(a bunch at the same time doesn't look or feel organic) and usually dumped the old ones as Nazis or sent them to Dimension Y forever.

Because DC actually has good writers.

>good story (most important)
>is his own character
>not a legacy
>Clark Kent still around, doing his thing uninterrupted
>does not try to diminish original Superman in a shallow attempt at self promotion
>actually incorporates its culture into the story in a way that is genuine and interesting, not just half-baked hashtag bait
>does not use said culture as a crutch, because the story and character stand on their own merits

Marvel's fundamental problem is that their editorial is 'I wonder what would happen if I dragged my ballsack across this broken glass?' level stupid.

Most /co/mrades are not /pol/lacks, we just call shit what it is, and Marvel Comics is 90% shit. No amount of perceived privilege invalidates the truth.

>>90659194
There's that, and there's also the fact that Marvel is trying to do it all at the same time.

Take a look at the most popular Marvel characters:

Spiderman: is currently Peter, but recently it was SpOck, and also there's Miles Morales running around as Spidey (without the development he had in the Ultimate universe), while Peter is trying to be Tony Stark.

Wolverine: Logan is dead, X-23 is Wolverine, Sabretooth and an alternate Logan are also filling the role.

Captain America: Replaced by the former Falcon. Steve is around also as Cap, but is secretly evil.

Iron Man: Tony is in a weird coma, Riri Williams is replacing him, and Doc Doom is trying to also.

Thor: Replaced by Jane "Whor" Foster, real Thor running around as Odinson

Hulk: Banner is dead, replaced by Amadeus Cho

X-Men in general: they attempted to replace them with Inhumans, didn't work. However, both are largely ruined by now.

Ms. Marvel: Replaced by Kamala. This one is well received, because (I'm told) it was well executed.

Cap Marvel's title gets passed around so much that I'm not gonna count it on this one.

So if you're coming from the movies, or returning to see the characters you used to read a few years ago, you'll find that almost all the big names, and a hell of a lot of the smaller ones, are either someone else, or radically different from the ones you knew.

And if you complain, you're accused of racism, sexism, etc.

He didn't replace Superman for one, and he's actually a character and not a pandering machine that acts like they're perfect. The only good legacy character right now is Sam Alexander and that's because the new writer actually made him interesting and fun.

Because Kal-El/Clark Kent is still around and still actively Superman in some capacity. Kong Kenan is a Chinese knockoff calling himself the "Super-Man."

When Marvel does legacies, they toss the predecessors aside. When DC does them, the predecessor is almost always a big part of their successor's life (see: Flash family) and why they have the title.

>>90659104
Because that is vey much a new character who is in universe pushed a a sort of legacy character.
Of course they're doing some serious legacy character digging in that comic but all-new all-Chinese Superman isn't legacy.

>>90660165
>When Marvel does legacies, they toss the predecessors aside.
This is another big problem. The only time I can really think of when DC did it was with Jamie Reyes, which was definitely criticised at the time. Then people warmed up to it because the book was genuinely good.

With Marvel, the only one I can think of right off that did it closer to the DC way was Chulk, who is one of the few actual legacies in the traditional sense, because Banner still featured quite a bit in the book. Then Bendis stupidly killed him off for shock value in CW2, which made absolutely no sense.

>>90659213
>New Falcon
I didn't even know there was a new falcon.

My god, he looks horrid.

Just a shirtless mutated mexican dude...

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>>90659104
Because he is not a legacy, he is a Chinese knock-off.

First, it's execution of the characters. Second it's execution of the plot. Third It's execution of the setting.

Fourth is avoiding boring, predictable political bullshit. Nothing wrong with politics, but the big two are as lock step and politically narrow as a klan rally. And if you're doing this shit for political reasons, it's boring, predictable, and usually insultingly racist.

Legacy is not really important, except that continuity will snap back for any big enough character, and that they tend to crap on the original when the make the legacy. Cho will have to do something when Banner comes back. The only reason why miles doesn't have his own unique name is fucking Bendis's fat ass outweighing even the marketing dudes.

>>90660124
That nobody gives a fuck about Carol Captain Marvel makes Kamala less likely to step on any toes.

>>90660124
It wasn't until I read this post that it hit me how much of this is happening AT THE SAME TIME. And it's like, it's not been quick? The Thor thing has been going on for years.

>>90660124
We have:
>2 Spider-men (not counting clones)
>2 Wolverines
>2 Captains America
>2 Iron Men/Heart/People/whatever
>2 Thors
How exactly Marvel thinks this is a thing good or even remotely acceptable?

>>90659104
because DC doesn't kill off their characters and attempt to replace them with minoroties.

>>90661148
3 Spider-Men. Miguel is still running around
4 Captain Americas. Roberta and Dani Cage are running around as well

>>90659180
Well Kenan gets his powers from Superbro so you are half right.

>>90659104
because it's well written and isnt "take THAT, white people" like most marvel is now, MS. Marvel go a pass early on because it was very good as well.

>>90659104
We also got Superdad and Lois back at the same time. So, we got our cake and our diversity. Nothing was forced onto us. No one from DC went on Twitter demanding that we accept a non-white male or they'll call us names. And both comics are actually good.

So basically, they literally did everything right here and only a Marvelfag can find fault in their work.

>>90661189
Fucking time-travelers!

>>90661148
>>90661189
Having multiple legacy characters isn't bad. DC has a lot of them. Having multiple legacy characters introduced at the same time period is a problem because the reader doesn't have time to get used to them.

>>90660376
>The only time I can really think of when DC did it was with Jamie Reyes, which was definitely criticised at the time.
Wasn't Ted a little... uh, dead at the time to actively appear in the comic?

>>90659104

DC has a long tradition of legacy heroes

>>90661392
That's what >>90660376 means when he said a legacy was tossed aside.

Although arguably that happened with Ted and Dan in the 60's comics, but that's partly because the Silver Age version of Dan didn't get enough readers other than GRRM and maybe a few others.

>>90661392
That's my point. Ted was dead (see: tossed aside) and Jaime was a replacement.

Not that Jamie was really a legacy for Ted since he was more a legacy for Dan Garrett, but still. People were smarting from Ted getting killed off for shock value and then Jamie comes around as a new hispanic teen Blue Beetle, so the initial reaction to him wasn't that great.

That's closer to how Marvel is handling their "legacies" now than how DC traditionally does it, but the difference is that Jamie wasn't being pushed for diversity points by a shitty tumblr/DA tier creative team. His book was good and people turned around on him as a character fairly quickly as a result.

>>90661371
Also, Marvel gives us no reason to care about them.

Miles is shit and lacks any reason for me to care about him. To be honest, I probably never will either. He's been shoved in so many books so hard that at this point I kinda find the character repulsive. Like that one kid in class who'd always interrupt the teacher to ask a question, but he was just asking questions for the sake of asking questions to the teacher and would stop.

>>90661575
There's also the fact that Jamie eventually got in contact with the Blue Beetle legacy and showed respect and admiration for the ones before him.
WWTKD?

>>90659104
Marvel pays people to talk about their diverse legacy heroes. DC just keeps making them.

>>90659264
Kenan is not a legacy character, both in-story and out he's a cheap knockoff of a character who's alive, well, and active

It's like saying John Stewart is a legacy character to Hal Jordan because they're both GLs, when they've been coworkers most of the time. There's no intention of passing a torch....as far as we know, anyway.

>>90661859
Legacy heroes are just heroes who wouldn't exist without the original in-universe and are influenced by that previous one. Kenan as Super-Man relies on the context of a Superman already existing.

Yes, every GL is a legacy besides Alan because they take up after previous corps members.

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You know one thing that really bothers me about Marvel? When they say "diversity" they really mean "brown lesbian that lives in America (probably in New York)".
>inb4 "B-But comics are a American media made by Americans for Americans!"
Fine, but don't pretend that you're the champion of diversity when all your stories are about your own country and culture.
Hell, even fucking Alpha Flight, the only fucking thing Marvel Canada had going for it ended up absorbed by SHIELD and is being lead by Captain Carol.
I don't even remember the last time we saw Excalibur.

>>90662307
>I don't even remember the last time we saw Excalibur.
Is that even a thing anymore, after MI-13?

>>90659104
This a Chinese-American writer writing a Chinese Superman set in China where the character is re-interpreted through Chinese 'lens' (Tiagram S, Chi, Government Control, etc.)

Marvel would make Superman a 20 something 'ethnic' girl in New York and call it a day.

Yang is a better writer than anyone Marvel employs

>>90660376
>The only time I can really think of when DC did it was Jamie Reyes

A better example would be Kyle Rayner. They ruined the entire GL mythos, Hal specifically, trying to get Rayner over and everybody hated him for it

>>90663016
>ruined the entire GL mythos
that's Johns fault for making the emotional spectrum so gay
Hal is a faggot you're gay if you like him

>>90659104
I just don't like blacks or women to be honest. Whenever I see a black with a white woman I think "you deserve each other". I'm only 70% white so I don't even have a legacy to protect. Seeya.

>>90659120
>>90659194
>>90659213

>people actually think Kenan is not a legacy

Damn, people, read the comic. In-universe, he was created to replace Superman when he died. He's a deliberate attempt by the Chinese government at making a legacy hero.

>>90659104

You wanna know why DC doesn't get as much shit? Look at Kenan. He's a fuckup who can barely control his powers. He's brash, arrogant and makes a lot of mistakes which means he has to work hard for the respect of others (Even then his friends poke fun at him). Hes clearly not Superman

Now look at some body like Riri . Super awesome at everything, everybody loves her, there's no struggle and they imply that shes better than Iron Man

That's the difference

>>90659120
>>90659180
>>90659194
>>90659213
These

>>90662307
That's a good point. One of the reasons I'm enjoying New Super-Man so much is because it's the ONLY title from either of the big two that takes place in a country beside America.

And while it's not required for a writer to be the same race as their character, it's still nice to see DC hire an actual Chinese writer to handle Chinese Superman.

>>90663390
He's talking about before johns tho.

>>90663403
You're trying too hard

>>90660376
>The only time I can really think of when DC did it
Green Lantern in the 90s

although I guess Hal was less tossed aside and more completely fucked over for several years

>>90663562
If Marvel writers had their hands on Kenan, they would opened his debut issue with nothing but panels where other superheroes kiss his ass and praise him as better than Green Day and Linkin Park combined. And his backstory would've been he was kicked out of school because his 300 IQ was intimidating the rest of the kids.

>>90660124
>Hulk: Banner is dead, replaced by Amadeus Cho
>>90660124

You are forgetting that Walters is going by Hulk now

I don't know where the Planet hulk dudes or Doc Samson fucked off to though

>>90661148
>>90661189
Two Hawkguys

Not sure if you'd count them but I'm pretty sure Lang and O'Grady are both still Ant-Man

>>90663714
He's Chinese-American and knew very little about traditional China before he started prepping to write this book. He's an extremely gifted writer and he always does his homework, which is rare among comic book "professionals", and it's just blind luck that he happened to be picked instead of some other chink that knows shit-all about his heritage just because of racists like you that think only people you group under a race banner can write about that race, when it really has more to do with knowledge of the culture.

>>90663783
Also, the first page would take six hours to read because Bendis stuffed it full of hundreds of word balloons.

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>>90663874

Holy shit, someone's easily triggered.

>racists like you that think only people you group under a race banner can write about that race

Oh, that must be what I meant when I wrote this:

>it's not required for a writer to be the same race as their character

Slow day on /pol/, huh?

>>90663852
O'Grady died and has been replaced by an LMD with his memories going by Black Ant

>>90663783
It was a really smart choice that the first time we see Kenan, he's acting like a jerk. It's just the complete opposite of how you'd expect a character named Superman to be introduced. It also kills the usual "Superman is too perfect" argument from page one.

>>90663852
O'Grady died.
An evil LMD of him was running around as Black Ant.

>>90663997
>now, I'm not racist, but...
Good work fucko covering your tracks

>>90664049
>>90664071
when did this happen

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>>90663789
Ok, so just like Cap America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Wolverine, Spiderman, Thor, Iceman, Beast, Angel, maybe Scarlet Spider, etc, there's 2 of them.

Wonderful.

I fucking hate this "strategy" of Marvel's. For the last decade or so, it's been gimmick after gimmick. Heroes divided! Villains are in power! Everyone is Thor. Everyone is Hulk. Everyone is Spiderman. Everyone is Phoenix. Inhumans! Monsters! Now everyone comes in pairs.

>>90663789
The Warbound were forgotten so far that it HURT.

And Sampson died, but then wasn't dead, and is now hanging out with Carol or something.

>>90664090
Tail end of Remender's Secret Avengers.
Wasn't great.

Black Ant was also in that ANAD Illuminati book that was immediately cancelled.

>>90663789
>>90664103
The last time I can remember seeing the Warbound was in that CW2 tie in about Banner's funeral. They've been largely forgotten before and since.

>>90664103
Is it weird that I can't tell if this page is the original or one of Illuminated comics edits?

>>90664103
Arguably when they did Civil War/Secret Invasion/Dark Reign/Siege it wasn't something done within the last five years at the time. Like for instance, Civil War was out in 2006, right? There wasn't any event like it since 2001. Compare that to what happened after Superior Spider-Man, where you suddenly had Axis, Superior Iron Man, and Infamous Iron Man in the last five years.

>>90663016
>>90663781
Kyle wasn't created for diversity though. He's still a white guy (later on they ret-conned him to be half-hispanic, but it's never brought up and I think half the people who've written him aren't even aware of it).

The thing with Kyle was just DC Editorial deciding they didn't want intergalactic police force Green Lantern Corps anymore. They wanted to make it so The Green Lantern is just one person. So Hal gets his hometown blown up, goes crazy and decides to steal all the Green Lantern power for himself, kills the Guardians, kills a bunch of his fellow GLs, and makes himself into a Green Energy God so he can remake the Universe the way he wants it. And the last surviving Guardian makes one last ring and gives it to some random dude so he can maybe try to stop Hal.

Old GL fans were angry, but at the same time Green Lantern genuinely was at a really low point in sales and popularity when this happened. Kyle did bring in new readers and carried the mantle for 10 years before Johns came along and put everything back the way it was before.

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>>90664251
Funny thing, Illuminated Comics made this page long before they even heard about the new America Chavez comic. Just a bizarre coincidence.

>>90664314
But hispanic just means he has spaniard ancestry

spaniards are white

checkmate, liberals

>>90664314
I am still of the opinion that the Guardians got what was coming to them.

>>90664314
Yeah the Kyle shakeup wasn't about diversity but more following the 90's trends to shake up a low-performing book. Like for instance while Superman was dead there were the four Supermen, while Batman's back was broken, Azrael replaced him, Artemis became Wonder Woman, Wally West was hinted at possibly dying and being replaced by Impulse... But then it had two swerves, Wally chose Jesse Quick as his replacement, and then it turned out Wally "died" and came back in a short time. They really could've done a better way of making Kyle GL though.

>>90664364
Of course they did. That's not controversial at all.

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>>90664359
>spaniards are white

>>90664052
>It's just the complete opposite of how you'd expect a character named Superman to be introduced.

IIRC in an interview Yang said he took inspiration from the way early Superman was depicted in the 1930's/early 40's.

>>90664075
You have to support an accusation before you make it my omniphobic-genocidal-worse-than-Hitler-deluxe-nazi friend.

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>>90664416
DC tried really hard to shake up the big-name League members during the 90s
>Azreal Batman
>4 Supermen
>Artemis Wonderwoman
>Orin Aquaman
>Walter West Dark Flash
>Kyle GL
>Connor Hawke GA
>Bloodwynd J'onn J'onzz

>>90664725
3/4 of those were awesome.

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>>90664725
Don't forget 90s Doctor Fate.

>>90664314
It wasn't for diversity, no, but stuff like Jane Thor was just as much of a sales ploy

>>90664725
only two of those turned out any good and most of them are forgettable

>>90664775
That was better than expected.

>>90663742
Kyle didn't ruin the GL mythos
bringing Hal back did

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>>90664923

>>90663556
thats not what legacy means you retard, if someone goes out and tries to be batman that doesn't make them automatically a legacy. Batwoman is not a legacy character.

>>90659104
>Marvel
>replaces their traditional characters with social justice legacy characters or forcefully transforms them into being one
>DC
>leaves classic heroes in place and ads separate SJW characters to exist separately and appeal to the fraction of the market that wants them while not alienating the vast majority of fans

>>90664297
Yeah, that's true. Say what you will about events like Infinite Crisis and Civil War, they had some build up, and they allowed time to cool down and breathe in the new status quo.

Now they haven't ended the current event and they're already telling you about the next 3 ones.

>>90664725
quick go get Grant Morrison to make a sequel JLA book with this line-up and HYPERCRISIS it up.

>>90664923
pretty sure getting rid of every single GL except one and either killing off the former GLC or giving them shitty new roles qualifies as ruining

>>90665697
To be fair, the GLC as a whole had died time or two before Emerald Twilight.

>>90665697
Ending isn't ruining.

Most of the weren't even dead, and the last half of Kyle's book was mostly about trying to rebuild the Corps anyway.

Bringing Hal back and creating the color spectrum fucked everything up. It would have been fine without those two things.

>>90665764
It got us Sinestro Corps War, even if you hate everything else, that's a win in my book.

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>>90664679
Y-y-you too

>>90659104
Marvel replaces their heroes, DC doesn't.

>>90659104
Because DC does it right.

They don't cuck the real heroes and the "replacements" have ACTUAL characterization and not just "gurlpower" or "muh diversity".

>>90664923
>Hal isn't best GL meme
When will this pleb meme die?

>>90666155
Never because Alan is the best

>>90659104
>kenan is a lovable douchebag with a good heart and actually grows as a character
>capturing that chinese knock off angle perfectly
>worldbuilding in china
>that ww
>that alpaca
>still waiting for that lantern academy

Why is this comic so goooooooooooooood?!

>>90664877

I'm not sure if you're dissing Kyle or Green Arrow Jr here.

>>90662073
Yeah this anon is right.

Kenan is a legacy character, in that he stems from Superman in a meta sense (not in universe).

Nor is there anything wrong with creating a legacy character with a different ethnicity to the original, but the execution is key. Other anons have already stated why this has been successful in the case of new Super-man, but has failed in many of the recent Marvel instances.

>>90659104
The truth is it's not as shit of a book.
I'm not gonna be one of these guys who claim New Superman is great, but it's better than 99% of what Marvel is putting out.

>>90664725
Azrael Batman was never in JLA, only Steel and Superman were in JLA, Hippolyta was in JLA not Artemis, Dark Flash was in JLA for like 2 issues during the World War III arc

>>90659104

Because DC legacy characters are characters trying to live UP to the mantle they inherited.

Marvel legacy characters, with a few notable exceptions, are New Coke replacements basically asking you to congratulate them for improving the formula.

>>90661606
>>90661371
I think one of the biggest and most frequent mistakes is when a new character is introduced and they promptly take a shit on the original character to show how great the new one is.

And thats not exclusive to Marvel either, DC has done it plenty too. Some of the Junior bat Family, 00' Supergirl, all did it.

But look at the current new gen of DC legacy characters. The New GL's Kenan, Black Wally - they're all shown to be growing, in the early stages of their career. None of them are better or superior to their predecessors, and all show respect (in universe and in terms of writing) to the older characters. Compare that to the new Marvel lot, where each new legacy character is better and greater than the original.

>>90659104

>Marvel - Here is a new hero that is better than the old one and has existed for a long time and is also the best at everything they do.

>DC - Here is another hero.

>>90665830
Johnsfags are the worse than Bendis fans

>>90665830
It should have stopped there. Sinestro Corps War was the turning point where Johns' run stopped being awesome and started getting progressively stupider.

>>90664359
Not really. Hispanic, as used by Americans, are mostly Mestizo in origin, not European. The few that do have European roots, have so because somebody was raped at some point in their family line.

Mich like how Filipinos, despite having Spanish surnames and raped thoroughly by Spaniards, are not European either.

>>90665830
I enjoyed that. The Blackest Night, fun as it was to read, just led to a steamroll in dumbfuckery that can never be undone. Too many corps, too many lanterns, too much craziness.

>>90666456
>00' Supergirl
Fuck you, nigger. Superslut was great.

>>90667025
All Supergirl runs are surprisingly good

>>90666391
Anon you misunderstood. DC editorial took the big name members of the JL (mostly the Big 7) and tried to do major changes to the character and/or mantle. Not that editoral actually changed the line up to reflect it.

>>90664103
God, he was literally brought back to life because he was the only psychologist that Bendis could think of, right?

>>90667677
Can you imagine the shitstorm if he used Moonstone instead?

>>90659180
This. Ms.Marvel is another good example. Carol's still alive, and more prominent than ever. They didn't have to replace her to let a new character ride her coattails.

>>90667097
I don't know about that. I love Supergirl, but I'm absolutely hating this current run. The poor art makes a mediocre story completely unenjoyable

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>>90659213
Pretty much.

You make a character not replace a character, the way marvel is doing things is just fucking shit.

>>90667936
Kupperberg's, PAD's, Loebs, New 52, etc... are all pretty consistent

>>90659104
He is a well written likable character, and isn't constantly used to force an agenda.

>>90666286
I'm not really a Kyle fan but I do see his merits

Connor Hawke is just dull all around

none of marvel's legacy characters are bad except teen jean grey

they do tend to lose about 50 IQ points whenever Waid writes them tho. and killing off Banner and Stark was a bad decision

>>90666206
>capturing that chinese knock off angle perfectly
Woah, gotta read it now.

Nice.

>>90659590
>Because DC actually has good writers.
This seems to be the crux of the matter right here.

>>90659345
>Because they have the JSA they have system in-universe to facilitate the older characters helping the younger ones
Well, this too. I don't know why Marvel didn't just rip off DC's system.

>>90659213
Theres a new Falcon?

>>90667097
>Reading about Superheroes on Tv Tropes
>Can't read Supergirl because has a shitton of content

Someone there REALLY likes her.

>>90659104
good execution

>>90663562
This is also a reason Kyle Rayner worked. He had to work before other heroes would say "yeah you're not bad." Flash shat on him for a long time before they become friends.

>>90664354
Who is that I. The sixth panel

>>90671127
More or less.

On his book, everybody loved him, "the Lightbearer". It was JLA that made him work his ass for approval.

>>90664297
>Compare that to what happened after Superior Spider-Man, where you suddenly had Axis, Superior Iron Man, and Infamous Iron Man in the last five years.
Don't forget Hydra Cap. There was Hell Wolverine at some point, too, though I don't know when that was.

>>90674160
Also the Doc Green arc which I don't think resolved the whole Evil Banner A.I. running amok

>>90670606
I think they started to with Young Avengers but only really grasped the Teen Titans aspect of it and forgot the legacy/mentor element of the JSA.

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>>90659213
>>90659228
>>90662422
>Kenan wants to establish democracy in a Communist country while avoiding the same radical mistakes his family did when they tried to do the same
>Baixi believes in the Communist government and this puts him at odds with his younger sister
>Deilan is hinted to be ancient and is the last of her kind meaning she has no family and is thus a relic of the past.
>Gene nailed three political and cultural shifts in the three main characters subtlety and naturally while staying true to the characters they imitate.

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>>90665555
5s demand it

Let us summon The Morrison

Quick, jack off to the picture!

>>90676847

...you don't fool me Alan.

>>90674160
Oh yeah, and Hydra Cap. Forgot to put that in.

I think Hell Wolverine was like in 2010.

>>90661575
>(see: tossed aside)

They didn't kill Ted to make Jaime a reality, for starters. SO Ted was not actually tossed aside. They didn't replace Barry with Wally (e.g. toss aside Barry, I'm sure you would agree).

>>90663016
>They ruined the entire GL mythos, Hal specifically,
I don't read GL enough to address the first part - Hal was definitely a decision to get rid of him (just as current Barry and Hal are a definite decision to bring them back, irrespective of the costs to the then current mythos). However, Kyle (irrespective of how much anyone says he's not 100% a caucasian American), is not a diversity turn the way that is being discussed in this thread. He was just a change from the status quo of a male that could pass for white (e.g. Hal). If Kyle has been a female or a different race or more clearly a different color (Asian or brown or black), you might have a more complete point.

>>90677069
>They didn't kill Ted to make Jaime a reality, for starters.

But they did kill Ted off in Countdown to IC and introduce Jaime in IC. I mean sure, it's not brazen like what they did with Iron Man for Civil War II, but still.

>>90663742
>johns

It's always Johns fault. Current Barry and current Hal (down to Cyborg being forced on the reboot 2011 League and the first live action cinematic league) is TCK's fault.

>>90677100
I think killing Ted was unnecessary but just like having Diana snap Maxwell Lord's neck on live TV was a decision they made, OR having Lord be able to mind control the planet (as they did in Generations Lost) were all decisions made editorially or poor decisions by the writers that were either backed by editorial or Editors gave so few fucks they let it slide, it's a different thing than what Marvel has done - which is replace nearly the entire set of mainline heroes purely to claim diversity - (we have all these females, we have a Muslim teenager as our most powerful female, we have an African American teenager as one of our most powered heroes, we have an Asian Hulk, etc. etc.)

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>>90661148
>We have:
>>2 Spider-men (not counting clones)
Also (currently) Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, Silk (was considerably more when Web Warriors was still a thing post Spider-verse).

>>2 Wolverines
You're forgetting Gabby: the clone of the clone (and Johnathan, the literal wolverine)

>>2 Captains America
Dani Cage showed up for a few issues in USAvengers (time travel shenanigans).

>>2 Iron Men/Heart/People/whatever
Don't forget War Machine (currently ded) has a nice who is ALSO a teenage black girl genius with access to power armor.

Also Iron Patriot in USAvengers.

>>2 Thors
Beta Ray Bill's still around (showed up in the second arc of Sam Nova a few years back anyway).

There's also:
2 Hawkeyes ( with Kate in the solo book )
2 Wasps ( with Nadia in the solo book )
2 Hulks ( with Jen in the solo book )
2 Ice Men ( I don't give enough of a shit to find out which one is in the upcoming solo )
2 Beasts ( up until recently 2 Cyclops as well because 0-5 )
2 Novas ( Dick is back! )
2 Visions ( Viv is currently in Champions with the other HB1 Young Avengers )
2 Iron Fists ( supposedly this is still coming along; see image related )

And there there's Gwenpool who's not really a legacy but must confuse the fuck out of Casuals that only know Gwen Stacy and Deadpool from the movies.

>>90663562
>Super awesome at everything, everybody loves her, there's no struggle and they imply that shes better than Iron Man
That's a lot of words just to write "Mary Sue"

>>90677574
>Beta Ray Bill's still around (showed up in the second arc of Sam Nova a few years back anyway)
He's currently in Unworhy Thor. Don't think it counts if he's not using the Thor name anyways. Also, the son of Thunderstrike or whatever he was called, but Marvel probably forgot him. Probably for the best.

>2 Novas ( Dick is back! )
To be fair, that's the one thing done right (so far).

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>>90677574
Why is there a Yugioh monster in Iron Fists?

>>90676555
Now that is good and skillful writing. Imagine how modern Marvel would have handled it.

>>90678449
1 arc of New Super-Man is already better than all of Ms. Marvel's series

He isn't being advertised or shoved in our face like other marvel legacies simple as that. Also not all legacy heroes work out great. Marvel is a mix bag but DC had its edgy weird as replacements as well like Artemis for Wonder Woman back then.

Where can I find all of the New Superman books to read? Knock-Off Super-Man sounds pretty interesting.

>>90678565
bit hyperbole there bud. Her last issue during secret wars was really really good.

>>90659104
Because Marvel puts out press releases.
Nobody likes a person that brags about how open minded and loving they are; it reeks of utlierior motives and virtue signaling self aggrandizement that only other similar self aggrandizing assholes can tolerate.

>>90659213

>They turn Falcon into Captain Socialism
>They replace him with a mutant
>They shove Rogers into Hydra

The writers must enjoy wrecking Captain America, don't they?

>>90671127
Even now, it took Simon Baz a long time to be accepted. It was only like one month ago that Batman accepted him as someone he could work with.

Hell, while the heroes accepted Jessica pretty quickly, she's been hard on herself since her introduction.

None of Marvel's "I'm awesome", "She's awesome" nonsense.

DC (for now, at least) is giving characters arcs, Marvel just throws the new hotness at you.

>>90679786
Spencer is having fun with it and it's at least better than Remender and Brubaker's crap

>>90679365
Viewcomic.

If you like it, please buy the TPB when it comes out.

>>90677964
It's meant to be the infant reincarnation of Shou Lao. I don't know why it has arms and wings now.

>>90661575
Ted was killed off because they needed someone loved by fans but not too important.

It may be bullshit on their part, but they even said he was the best choice because everyone thought he had potential for stories, so the loss would be real.

So they killed him for shock value, then they replaced him with Jaime.

In contrast, Marvel has been telling us about their Riris and such before they even figure out how they're gonna kill the characters they will replace.


I'm not defending what DC did with Ted and others, Beetle has been my favorite hero since I was like 5, and it really hurt when it happened. But rarely has DC done things in such as sloppy and transparent way as Marvel does right now.


And the Jaime BB original series was FUCKING FANTASTIC

>>90677574
>Iron Fists

Of course it's an asian girl.

I hope they write it well, there's more potential here than in any of the other replacements.

>>90671663
Maximus

>>90659104
>Literally who

>>90659104
DC
having it be done to mainly one character, while bulging some others like the JSA, bat family and flash. But really introduce old characters in continuity event that fits with the long time multiverse plot of Dc

Marvel
>thor, spiderman, captain america, hulk, x-men, fantastic 4. Then literally really writing the whole damn universe litterally. Cap nazi, magneto nazi, mutant and inhumane genocide.cosmic rules were writen. They literally just oposite world everything.

>>90680549
New superman, it's actually pretty slick.

>>90665201
That's true, but in the way way the DC heroes work in Multiverse. He is literally that earth "new superman". He was even tracked by a Multiverse superman tracker. That's pretty legacy.

>>90679845
Damn, just read up to the current one, this is a really solid series so far. It's not drawn out or over-dramatic so far, lots of cool bits and pieces thrown in, and the cast is great.

>>90659104
On one hand, more NSM threads are welcomed
On the other, didn't we have this thread already

>>90680966
Shush you, I never would have discovered NSM if not for this thread. It has served a noble purpose.

>>90663789
I saw Jen holding the HULK name up and i thought she dropped the "She". I thought it was a clever meta-joke like she used to make. Then I couldn't find the "she" anywhere on the cover.

It wasn't a joke.

>>90664314

This. Whats going on now is the same Sales ploy as usual. People just get too wrapped up in the politics and rage to see it as such, and Marvel is learning that the audience they're courting doesn't put their money where their mouth is and just read key pages on Tumblr and twitter.

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Well, it helps when everything is presented with moderation.
Also, it actually takes place in China rather than featuring Token Man in downtown NY. It's a setting that's pre-established yet hardly ever used, and for extra points it means they can't use the book to bitch about equality and minorities and whatever, because he's NOT a minority.

>>90681282
>A cheap Chinese imitation of a flawed American concept
This is getting a little too meta and real for me

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>>90661202
Lol. No. Someone hasn't been doing their homework, have they?

>>90681386
It's amazingly meta without being 2deep. You should give it a read if you haven't yet, since there's only nine issues out so far.

>>90681791
I've been reading the book since day one, but re-reading it sheds new light on how things turned out.
Like how Dr. Omen picked Kenan. First read I thought she was capitalized on Kenan's popularity and stupidity, but on second read I realized she picked him because she still want that Papa Kong dick

>>90681760
So what do his other powers link to?

>Thigh
Seems like a sure thing that Thigh will be his superspeed so he can keep up with Asian Speedster in the next couple of issues.

>Head
Not a goddamn clue. Unless they decide to go for super intellect as a power in Rebirth. I would have gone all the supersenses, but the Ear sort of ruins that.

>Mouth
Superbreath obviously. Freezing and wind alike.

>Eye
Heat vision, but I'm assuming it may also allow X-ray vision too? Or maybe X-ray vision is his Head power, since it seems too different to his heat vision to wrap into one trigram.

>Foot
Not a fucking clue if Thigh is his superspeed. By process of elimination I imagine it's Flight, since he's referred the most frequently to his flight not being back and it always seems to be the last power to develop in any Superman spinoff. I guess it might be something like Walking On Air or Skywalking or something, hence the Foot.

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>>90677574
>pic
Jesus and I thought Sam Nova looked distrurbingly young.
Toddler Dr. Strange when?

>>90659104

Marble has crappy writers?

Marble has shitty heroes?

>>90670606
>Well, this too. I don't know why Marvel didn't just rip off DC's system.
>Marvel eventually does
>Everyone praises Marvel as if they actually invented the method

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Was this guy funny like that back in his Wonder Woman trainer days?

>>90679786
Over the last 10 years, I don't think real Cap has been Captain America during 5 of them.

>>90684534
Holy shit, they brought back I-Ching!?

>>90686238
Yang seems pretty determined to bring back as many old school Chinese DC characters as he can while this lasts.

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>>90686238
Bruh, fucking Ching Lung is back

>>90681929
Thigh is X-Ray vision
Head is flight

>>90690762
How do you know that? Also thigh as X-ray vision is fucking retarded.

>>90692336
What's penetrating and between your thighs anon?

>>90692459
A vagina?

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>>90692742
My joke is not as clever as I have hoped for, as it seems

>inb4 london

>>90659104
they don´t push it down your throat like "this is the new diverse version of your favorite character, love it. Do you love it now? And now? now? what´s the problem, is not diverse enough? Ok...let´s said he is better than the character you used to care...maybe he/she is the smartest or he/she has more powers or whatever shit idea it takes? WHY DO NOT LOVE IT YET??? We have replaced your loved character for one we think is better and more diverse, WHYYY DON´T YOU LOVE IT???"

>>90692811
Nodnol?

>>90664725
Yeah but most of those were great.

>>90666456
Also, the old GLs, Clark and OG Wally also have their own books (well I guess Titans isn't technically Wally's title but it feels like it), so fans who just want the characters they love can just read those. Rebirth is handling new and old characters so much better than Marvel.

>>90667097
even when they tried to reboot comet the super-horse?

>>90664923
Hal is great screw you
bringing Barry back ruined the Flash mythos though

>>90671736
>On his book, everybody loved him, "the Lightbearer".
That shit started in John's run.In his own book he was still busting his ass for approval. Honestly only Guy and John really seemed to like the guy.

>>90694146
Flash mythos was ruined years before that when DC editorial decided to put Bart in the suit. Been shit ever since regardless of who is in the main suit.

>>90659104
What happened to that new Alan Scott who was revamped to be gay and young again? I got really sad when 52 got rid of old Alan Scott, and now his son didn't exist anymore.

>>90694300
he got trapped in a shitty book that ended recently and will be irrelevant for the foreseeable future

DC's been setting up the return of the regular JSA though so Alan will probably be back soon

>>90659194
Every Marvel executive, writer and artist needs to have this post tattooed backwards on their faces so they can read it every morning.

>>90694300
Gay Alan is an alternate version on Earth-2. There is no Alan in the main universe yet but they're building toward fixing that.