Are Koreans just inhumanly better at making hand drawn animation

>>90617505
They never got lazy.

1) cheaper labor
2) 12- to 16-hour work days

>>90617584
/thread
not fpbp tho

>>90617584
18,000-21,000 won a hour is not cheap and 90-98% of them only work 10 hour at most.

The cheapest in western outsourcing in 12,000 won a hour.

gorean work ethic #1

I wonder if it's really cheaper, unless American animators demand some outrageous salaries. It's much more efficient to do things in-house.

>>90618143
See >>90618018
It's just them being stupid.

>>90618181
So what's really the incentive for outsourcing everything?

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>>90618268
Taking jobs away from Americans so the standard of living drops?

>>90618268
lazy americans

It's a good that can be "transported" effortlessly, so of course it will be supplied by whoever can shave off a nickel below everyone else.

>>90618018
Provide source.

>>90618268
Not everything is outsourced.

>>90618420
There are some productions that aren't, but they seem to be very rare.

>>90618523
>plain trips
>plain

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>>90618475
And none of them are as good as Startoons.

>>90618475
For series maybe, but I don't see why anyone would privileged series over films.

>>90618543
*unostentatious trips

>>90618543
>plain trips
My apologies.
>>90618316
This, at a million dollars a episode not only that the animation will stay in the States but every episode will be animated on 2s (12FPS) at least and will have a original score by a 50+ piece orchestra for every episode.

But the idiots running the industry think that it's a better idea to waste the money on plane trips to China and celebrities rather then putting into the animation for near feature Disney grade animation so please tell them we want quality animation back.

>>90618143
South Korea has rough economic parity with Spain and 10 million more people. By Asian standards they're a giant. By Western standards, not so much.

>>90618599
Also China & Japan.

>>90617505

They have a more firmly established industry in it, resulting in more stable companies and studios that can keep both the outsourcing pricing low, salaries semi-decent, and schedules tight.

Its gone to the point japanese have started outsourcing the brunt work of most anime shows to Korea. Both Avatar The Last Airbender and Full Metal Alchemist were animated by the same korean team.

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Japan used to outsource it's animation to Korea because it was cheaper. The Korean economy improved and now Japan is outsourcing to Southeast Asia. America is now using Korea for a lot of animation because they offer a nice mix of cost and quality.

>>90618803
JM was not on FMA.

Also 18,000 won a hour is not cheap.

Combination of autism, skilled artists, borderline slave labor, weeaboo power and density. You need ALL of those to make it work.

>>90618858

I was talking about DR Movie. And generally a better managed and scheduled talented animation team with higher salaries is cheaper than worse maintained animation team with lower salaries and talent, because it results in better scheduling and less time used.

And time is the number one problem in every project and budget when it comes to animating.

>>90618803
>Its gone to the point japanese have started outsourcing the brunt work of most anime shows to Korea.
No they haven't.

Do people think the entire show was animated in Korea because they see some Korean names flash in the end credits, amongst all the indecipherable kanji?

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>>90618848
No thats South Korea thats using Southeast Asia (mostly Rough Draft as to why their later western works are so bland and lifeless (see webm) when anime under their Orange banner is still just as great as their 90s output), Anime News Network is still not posting any studios from Southeast Asia other then Toei Philippines (the studio that fucked up Sailor Moon Crystal and Dragon Ball Super).

>>90618018
>$15 an hour isn't cheap
Spotted the American.

>>90618943
>And time is the number one problem in every project and budget when it comes to animating.
If only Richard Williams realized that when it came to dealing with the studios.

>>90618965
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-so-much-of-the-animation-for-American-cartoons-done-in-Korea

>>90618943
Dr.Movie also is a larger studio with multiple units, the unit that did Avatar was the unit that did Justice League/Unlimited.
>>90618941
18,000 won a hour is not slave labor.

>>90619058
Outsourcing in Japan is driven more by personnel shortages rather than cost.

>>90618958

>Do people think the entire show was animated in Korea?

>>90618803

>japanese have started outsourcing the BRUNT work of most anime shows

Can you read? Sure, Egoraptor did most of the keys by himself when doing one of his recent abortive animated music videos, but he still sent it to be inbetweened, cleaned up, colored and edited to a studio that specializes in renting workforce to do that work.

>>90619117
Isn't Japan producing way more anime than they did 20 years ago? Could explain the shortages.

>>90619133
But it's not even the brunt of the work. Most of the work is done in Japan.

>>90619018
You just assumed his nationality!
What if he's actually Canadian?

>>90619058
The guy who made that has no idea what he is talking about, go over to Anime News Network and you will find out that the only southeast studio listed in animation services is Toei Philippines, most anime work stays in Japan because some low end Japanese studios pay LESS then their Korean counter parts with Madhouse being the only Japanese studio to use Korea (Dr.Movie) in bulk (sometimes letting them pre-produce it) when other studios only use Korea for a few episodes.

>>90619221

>second animation, inbetweening, cleanup, coloring, special effects and editing.

>not brunt of the work.

You've never animated yourself have you? Doing the keys 1,3 and 10 requires more skill and thinking, but then doing the rest in between them, coloring and inking them is generally more time-consuming and needs more lines to be drawn and papers to be used. Second animator and inbetweener both generally draw the animated character more times than the actual animator does.

Its the brunt of the work, the part of the animation nobody really loves doing but which has to be done anyway. 3/4th of the time used is spent doing that monotone task, one of the main reasons why most people get their dreams crushed and flunk out during the beginners courses of animation.

>>90619410
>Its the brunt of the work, the part of the animation nobody really loves doing but which has to be done anyway. 3/4th of the time used is spent doing that monotone task, one of the main reasons why most people get their dreams crushed and flunk out during the beginners courses of animation.
I wonder how many CGI animators are glad that they don't have to do that.

>>90619410
It helps that they only animate on 4s, sometimes 3s at best.

Unless it's a feature or a very large budgeted project.

Some interesting stats in this article regarding animation.

https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2016/12/27/anime-craft-weekly-25-decrypting-anime-production/

Sound! Euphonium was probably the most impressive production that season, but it also had the LEAST amount of animators and animation directors working on it, which goes against common wisdom.

>>90619410
>not brunt of the work.
That's what I said, yes. Most work is done in Japan.

>You've never animated yourself have you?
It makes absolutely no difference whether I have or not.

>>90619488
Anime varies its framerate wildly, and you can see on threes animation even in Ghibli movies.

>>90619284
He studied film and watch movies from all over the world. What are you credentials?

>>90619570

>That's what I said, yes. Most work is done in Japan.

Holy shit, you actually can't read. I apologize, I did not realize I was talking with a retard.

And maybe you should pick up and start animating, so as to avoid saying stupid shit like above.

>>90619668
>Holy shit, you actually can't read.
I can. It's just that you're wrong. Most of the work is done in Japan.

>And maybe you should pick up and start animating, so as to avoid saying stupid shit like above.
Why exactly do you think this is relevant? How much of the production work is or is not done in Japan is a completely objective matter that has not even the slightest relation to either of us. Are you making claims about Japan's outsourcing based on your feelings?

>>90619617
I reverse engineer them.

>>90619714

>Why exactly do you think this is relevant?

Because its the main reason animation jobs get outsourced to Korea and Southeast Asia, you dingleberry. Key animators are mostly japanese but mountains and mountains of work required afterwards is shipped somewhere else to be worked on, thats the reason why that outsourcing happens in the first place.

To ignore that is fucking stupid, since its an integral part playing into most animation studio's budgets and deadlines, which in turn affect the employment rate of animators in Japan, and finally that affects the overall quality of animators in Japan.

Theres a reason studios like Trigger have new educational programs in use, and why they sound so worried about the future of the industry. The more animation work gets deported from Japan to another country, more the overall salaries and wages of the japanese animators go to the toilet:

https://youtu.be/7LgHOUTZ8Gc

>>90619872
>Because its the main reason animation jobs get outsourced to Korea and Southeast Asia, you dingleberry
How much I'm familiar with animation work determines how much Japan outsources? I never realized I hold such power over the anime industry.

>Key animators are mostly japanese but mountains and mountains of work required afterwards is shipped somewhere else to be worked on
Except most of that work is done in Japan.

>Theres a reason studios like Trigger have new educational programs in use
That was Anime Mirai, a government program that many studios have participated in.

>>90619952
The government has since stop funding it a few years back in favor of rebuilding their military.

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>>90618943
>>90619061
DR Movie is responsible for the shitty animation in like half of ATLA.

>>90620027
It still exists under the name Anime Tamago, but it's run by The Association of Japanese Animations.

>>90618018
For art labor that's cheap as fuck. Good luck finding an artist who isn't fresh out of college to work for less than double that in the states.

Concept art INTERN at a game studio I worked for got $50/h.

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>>90620072
In short, that show was choppy to begin with, when fluid it was nice but it could not hold a candle to real Japanese animation like this.

>>90619952

>How much I'm familiar with animation work determines how much Japan outsources?

No, you dumb fuck. It would teach you what the animation process is since you seem to be completely ignorant of it.

Lets take an example. Disney during the days when its animation process was in its most expensive:

Each Disney animator had a secondary animator, secondary animator's assistant and an inbetweener also working on the scene the main animator was doing. Thats 4 dudes animating the scene.

Now, if modern japanese animation industry would employ the same thing, then 2-3 of those dudes would be working overseas in another company instead. To say that "most of the work is done in Japan" is thus fucking idiotic, especially when animator assistants and inbetweeners generally draw MORE in pure terms of lines and paper than an actual animator does. Do you understand now?

Key animation: the brains and the structure of the scene. You draw less but you have the biggest responsibility in ensuring the animation is fluid and looks good and your line of work is more challenging.

Inbetweens, cleanup and coloring: The meat and potatoes of the scene. More work intensive and time consuming, but requires less talent, skill and thinking to do.

>>90620166
In what state? And what studio?

>>90620095
This.

>>90620197
I have no idea what show that is, but it doesn't look Japanese. Also, I liked ATLA's style more anyways, but only when JM Animation did it.
JM Animation's ATLA eps were just incredible.

>>90620207
>It would teach you what the animation process is since you seem to be completely ignorant of it.
I never said or implied or indicated I'm ignorant of it.

>Each Disney animator had a secondary animator, secondary animator's assistant and an inbetweener also working on the scene the main animator was doing. Thats 4 dudes animating the scene.
Why are you referencing Disney to explain something about anime? In the anime industry there are two or three animators per cut. The key animator, the in-betweener and often a second key animator that finishes the work of the first key animator. Sometimes there's just a key animator.

>Now, if modern japanese animation industry would employ the same thing, then 2-3 of those dudes would be working overseas in another company instead.
They may or may not be, but as I already told you most work is done in Japan.

>To say that "most of the work is done in Japan" is thus fucking idiotic
This is not a matter of logical reasoning, this is a matter of whether people are working overseas or not. And, once again, most of them are not.

>>90620299
Rough Draft's project at the time preformed better, it's when Mir was founded with those Moi & Dong Yang transfers that they started to sub pass Rough Draft but at that point they only did anime in Seoul under their Orange banner and shipped everything else to Southeast Asia and even NORTH Korea.

JM was not that good in the end, also...

>Tiny Toon Adventures
>TMS not being Japanese when in real life their one of the big anime studios in Japan.

>>90620432

>They may or may not be, but as I already told you most work is done in Japan.

>"Your examples don't matter because I say you're wrong, I dont know anything about animation but my word is the law."

I'm done trying to educate a retard.

TMS shill pls leave

>>90620442
>Rough Draft's project at the time preformed better, it's when Mir was founded with those Moi & Dong Yang transfers that they started to sub pass Rough Draft but at that point they only did anime in Seoul under their Orange banner and shipped everything else to Southeast Asia and even NORTH Korea.

Mind rewriting this in English? No, seriously, I literally have no idea what you're saying here.

>>90620547
Rough Draft > JM

>>90620489
You're the retard here. You think that most of the work is done outside Japan simply because you have reasoned, based on your knowledge of how things work in America (as if that was the same thing), that there's no way most of the work could be done in Japan. Even though, based on credits, it is. And then you keep ranting about how animation gets made and how I must not know anything about that, even though I never said, implied or indicated that I don't.

And no shit it's wrong to analyze anime production based on how Disney produced animation.

>>90620556
What does Rough Draft have to do with ATLA?

>>90620593
Nothing, other then Rough Draft was doing a better job at animation the shows they got (they were still doing Simpsons in Seoul in house, rather then in Pyongyang at Studio SEK) then what JM was doing on Avatar (Rough Draft was doing more frames of animation).

>>90620572

>You're the retard here. You think that most of the work is done outside Japan simply because you have reasoned, based on your knowledge of how things work in America

No I haven't. The reasoning is based on the anime industry professionals themselves fucking saying it, and the fact biggest animation studios out there like Toei and Aniplex both outsource animation work to Korea and Southeast Asia. Toei Philippines for example does 70% of the work for Toei these days.

Jesus goddamn fuck you're stupid. Probably a weeb from /a/, desperately trying to defend his japanese overlords.

>>90620766
The fact that work is outsourced does not say anything about HOW MUCH of it is outsourced, and Toei does not represent the entire industry. And Aniplex isn't even a studio.

>Jesus goddamn fuck you're stupid.
Nice projection.

>Probably a weeb from /a/
Go take your pills.

>>90620766
>actually believing that /a/ is full blow Weeaboos.

>>90619484
Instead they have to deal with modeling texturing, and rigging and all the fucking technical problems that are always sure to happen

>>90617520
this is true

>>90618965
>Southeast Asia other then Toei Philippines (the studio that fucked up Sailor Moon Crystal and Dragon Ball Super).
This will never not make me laugh since I live there.

>>90623921
What about Toon City?

>>90617505
that thing in the middle isn't korean though

>>90629314
Supervisor from the US.

>>90629314
You sure? Squint your eyes.

>>90629923
Yes, we're sure.

>>90621825
But is that worse than the handdrawn option?