>Barry and Hal go through years and years of writing and therefore

>>90280757
I agree. 90s was actually a based time for most DC major characters, except for Superman and Wonder Woman. The stories were about how the past affecting them, and the writers built on it and developed characters rather than retconning or rebooting. Then Johns came and shat on everything.

>>90280757
>not wanting a timeless DC where no character progression exists and johns keeps a status quo and resets to make sure he get's his favorite characters and stories retold forever
Come on anon

>>90281026
*affected them

I'm sure Hal would've had a proper sendoff had Parallax not become a thing and Gerard Jones went with his original plan of Hal retiring for good.

>>90280757
Oh yeah I agree this is totally hurting DC. They're bately selling anymore how will they ever recover?

They should take a page from Marvel and get rid of their old characters and replace them with new ones. That's why Marvel is selling like hotcakes.

>>90281026
>This tired old "Parallax was a great character development!" meme
Look, it's fine to like Kyle, and Parallax was an interesting character, but unless you start with Emerald Twilight, there's no defending Parallax as a reasonable character development. It doesn't fit at all with the way the character was portrayed.

That said, Barry really didn't need to come back, and the Parallax shit had already been made up for by HalSpec, which is the status quo that really needs to return.

>>90281362
Marvel is still #1 so....

>>90280757
He did the same to Aquaman. He rebooted everything and changed him to a standard Johns no character hero and Orm was a standard Johns morally ambiguous anti hero. He really is the DC equivalent of Bendis.

>>90281182
Frankly becoming pure willpower and taking out Sinestro, Warworld, and the a Fear Engine was a perfect send off...until they nixed it A FUCKING ISSUE LATER WITH WHITE LANTEN BS!

>>90281543
Not in todays environment it isn't. In a book called "Hal Jordan and the GLC", having Hal literally kill himself then John lead the corps and that be the end of it would've had people blowing a shitfit like you've never seen before.

>>90281543
As a character moment it's badass, but Venditti still hasn't given Hal much catharsis for all the hell he's been through since the run started, so from a development standpoint it's not the best time for him to die. Plus if anyone deserves to grow old and have kids, its Hal.

>>90281473
Hey its the overship apologist. What's up?

>>90280757
You're ignoring the fact that after Hal was gone there was no decent GL left. Guy was Warrior for years, John was as shit as always, and Kyle was plagued with terrible writers and crossovers which left him not very well liked.

Bringing Hal back revived Green Lantern as a brand.

>>90280757
>Barry and Hal go through years and years of writing and therefore are finished and complete characters who can work as (dead) ideals for other characters or old mentors for future characters
Hal deserved better than to be an example of what not to do

>>90281772
Kyle wasn't liked from the onset because of HEAT mentality. The only one of the three main writers he had that sucked was Raab, who probably played a large part in the reason Rebirth even happened because he's the one who brought all the worst shit to Kyle in the end.

>>90281925
Winick also was middling at best. The same can be said for a decent amount of Hal's writers, to be fair.

>>90281362
>Who cares about quality, muh sales
You sound like a sony fanboy.

>>90282030
I actually really enjoyed Winicks run because it left the constant crossover state that Marz had it in. Kyle became his own hero, got his own rogues and even had his own nemesis in Effigy or Nero. He actually grew as a hero and person. The Jim Lee designed gay biker outfit though, was awful and should never have left the design stages.

>>90282076
No I agree with you. Marvel is totally putting out amazing quality right now. Really the standard for what comics should be.

Nu52 Wally should just replace Barry already. I know people would get mad that a black character is replacing a white one and /pol/ would use it for shitposting fuel but it's honestly the best choice
Unlike Marvel's horrible character replacement's The Flash and GL actually build up to it and it normally feels natural.

>>90282629
Black Wally has been around for 3 years, that's barely anything for him to organically take over the mantle. It'd just come off as retarded.

>>90282450
>i'm a complete casual and don't read comics but if I pretend I do I can shitpost!
By your retarded logic Barry should have never replaced Jay and Wally should have never replaced Barry.

>>90282664
No I agree with you. Killing off characters and replacing them with shitty ones is the way to go.

>>90282743
So you are calling Barry shitty? Because he replaced Jay.

>>90282759
All white males are shitty. That's why Marvel is so much better. I thought we agreed on this but now I see you're just some cis scum trying to falseflag and push the white agenda.

>>90282629
Black Wally (pre-backpedaling) is one of the worst things DC has done this past decade, they should get rid of him already.

>>90282991
Didn't they imply in Flash rebirth that he was losing his speed?

>>90282664
By OP's logic they should've killed off Wally and Kyle and replaced them with some random fucks nobody knows or cares about. Everybody loves reading yet another origin story, yeah?

But really OP is just another retard who doesn't understand why cape comics work the way they do. He's one of those people who probably scours the net for definite chronological appearances of characters so he can read everything order regardless of story quality.

>>90283467
They replaced wally with Bart you idiot. Going backwards makes no sense

>>90282629
>Nu52 Wally should just replace Barry already.
>replacing the only conservative justice league member with an uppity hood youth
Fuck off.

>>90283799
But wally was the conservative, not Jay

>>90283928
Was Wally right wing? I recall him being less so than Barry.

>>90283981
Wally was literally a racist conservative up until adulthood.

>>90283716
It does when the replacements are worse, like Bart was

>>90284109
Its only a matter of time until a Bart fan sees this and tries to fight you

>>90283467

Wait, what? What's wrong with checking out all of a characters history? I like both Hal and Kyle, and I like both alive at the same time. Doesn't mean I don't want to check out some bullshit Hal story from Flash 234.

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>>90283981

>>90284495

Oh my lord what

>>90284495
>but man it's great to see you
>Supermans face in the last panel
Holy shit kek.

>>90284495
Suddenly the race change makes sense

>>90284495
I would give anything to see this same conversation between White Wally and Black Wally but more subtle.
>Every time black Wally does something White Wally gets visibly annoyed
>White Wally clearly looks down black Wally or treats Black Wally like an idiot
>White Wally talks to Irish as if taking care of this "trouble Youth" must be hard work

>>90285045
>>90284495
Considering it's cannon that Wally was once racist how do you think he subconsciously feels about being replaced by a black kid?

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>>90284495
It's mind control you donuts. Wally is right leaning, but he isn't racist. He just hates commies and socialists.

>>90285282
You honestly expect /tv/ to figure shit like that out? You overestimate people who don't read comics.

Barry and Hal are better off dead
Speedforce and emotional spectrum killed their respective franchises
Johns and Waid were mistakes

>>90285696
>I've never read a comic in my life, but here's what I think

Great bait though

All the Flash stories people care about are with Wally, I'm actually glad we get some Barry action for the last 8 or so years.

>>90285696
>Speedforce and emotional spectrum killed their respective franchises

Whether I like the emotional spectrum or not, you're flat out wrong. That shit skyrocketed GLs popularity in the mid to late 2000's to the point that he was consistently in the top 10 selling or even #1.

>>90283467
It's almost like gradual continuity adds gravity and richness to stories told over multiple decades.

>>90280757
DC's a business. Barry wasn't brought back for some lofty ideals on fictional progression. He was brought back as a piece of synergy. When they brought him back the GL movie was already in the pipeline and WB was expecting to launch a DC film franchise.

So DC takes the opportunity to bring back Barry because Barry will always be the dude you start with in other media. Same reason the show and future movie are going to be about Barry.

Johns is a Wallyfag anyhow. He was forced to bring Barry back and make him the spotlight but still had plans to keep the rest of the family alive. Once again, higher ups squashed it and just made everything about Barry and swept the rest under the rug.

Can't say they were wrong. The show's popular as hell and The Flash hasn't been this relatively successful since before Barry died. Say what you will about how boring he is but he apparently appeals to way more people willing to spend money on things.

>>90283016
He got it back in the following arc.

>>90284188
Bart fans are the ones who hated his Flash run the most. They sucked every bit of Bart's character out of him and stitched together the most bland, Barry Allen/Wally West mashup they could. It was abysmal

>>90283467
>By OP's logic they should've killed off Wally and Kyle and replaced them with some random fucks nobody knows or cares about. Everybody loves reading yet another origin story, yeah?

Yes. That'd be great. One of the best parts about The Flash was how you had this lineage you could track if you were so inclined, and how every Flash's career wasn't too far back.

It's a shame Bart's run was awful. It'd be cool if he could've held onto the title.

>>90283981
Marv Wolfman hated Wally West so he did everything he could to set him at odds with the rest of the Titans.

One of the main things he did was play up his Nebraskan roots and make him a conservative in a group of liberals and weirdos so he could act as a stick in the mud. Before Wolfman Wally's politics didn't even exist. After Wolfman and Baron they disappeared entirely. So there was about a decade where Wally was this unbearable dude as a writer stand-in for how awful conservative were.

It all worked out and future authors like Loebs and Waid got to twist it around into him growing out of his asshole ways but when a writer goes out of his way to make a popular character unlikable through politics it's pretty cringeworthy.

>>90285805
More people care about Flashpoint and Flash Rebirth than any other Flash story ever written.

Now they might not be what you think are the best stories, but certainly more people are aware of, have read, and love those stories more than any of Waid or Johns' books.

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>>90287788
And then he got nuked by the rogues.

>>90287951
Only because they were the most publicized.

>>90287951
I've heard NOTHING about Flashpoint other than it being the kickoff for the nu52.

Let alone anything decent.

>>90288120
You can excuse it however you want. What he said was wrong. More people know and care about shit to do with Barry than people who ever knew Wally West was The Flash.

>>90283467
>Doesn't understand cape comics
You dumb shit, you don't understand The Flash or GL.

>>90288143
It had its own animated movie, dude. What's Wally's most popular, well known story? The Return of Barry Allen? Blitz?

100x the people are cognizant of "Flashpoint" than they are either of those. It's the most well known Flash story of all time.

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>>90285282
>>90283981
Wally is based.

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>>90285696
>Speed Force killed the Flash franchise

>>90288100
So had Inertia.

>>90287951
Yeah that's true, but with "stories people care about" I'm not really talking about mainstream exposure (don't forget the lame TV show), but rather stories and runs near and dear to comic book fans. Hal had plenty, Barry only had wink wink nod nod Silver Age hijinks.

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>>90288651
Yeah, Inertia sapped his speed but the Rogues did the killing blows out of panic.

Fairly out of character but eh.

>>90288652
More comic books fans have read and like Flash Rebirth and Flashpoint than any of Wally's stories. Admittedly Flashpoint has the advantage of being an event book but it's still true.

>>90288970
I'm not talking about that, ya dunce.

>>90288425
Just because it's well known doesn't mean it's good.

>>90280757
>years of writing
>Barry

Kek

>>90288541
So are we supposed to hate Wally here?

Because if you think of when this was written he had a point.

>>90289093
Well you're either talking about that or you think people aren't real comic fans unless they were reading things from 15 years ago.