Is Marvel finally becoming Great Again? http://heatst.com/c

>>90176767
no

Did they fire Bendis?

>>90176767
The issue isn't necessarily politics and commentary, it's how badly they've been doing it.

I'll believe it, when I see it.
Besides,politics are only one of Marvel's problems.

1. Is Bendis contained?
2. Is Slott Contained?

if either is answered 'no' then NO, you didnt MMGA

>>90176805
This.

I don't mind topical political allegories as long as they're well-done. There's a reason the original appearance of the Secret Empire is remembered so fondly, despite the archvillain literally being Richard Nixon.

>>90176816
True, but its a step in the right direction

>>90176805
It was never really politics, just liberal propaganda

>>90176805
This.

Comics have always been a bit political. The issue is the hanfistedness and lack of self awareness they've been doing it.

>>90176847
Well there's was at least some level of subtlety in that.
Nixon's face wasn't shown and the story becomes more about what happens when Steve Rogers loses faith in America rather than Nixon himself.

>>90176805
From the way Lady Gaga was complimented for "not getting political" at the Super Bowl, people seem to want "politics" to be a dirty word, and to associate it with only the most confrontational and divisive statements.

>>90176805
USAvengers is done right. Not much else. Can't wait for American Kaiju .

ON BENDIS
NO BIDNES

>>90176847
>>90176906
I wasnt even aware there was an original Secret Empire

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I want Marvel to remind me why their heroes are heroes to begin with again.

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>>90176767
>opening is pure opinion about Marvel sales and what readers want without sources
>using Rich Johnston as a source for the majority of the article

>>90176767
>Great Again?

Thinly veiled Trump thread

>>90177066
Peter recently saved the world, though he's one of the few left who is still heroic

>>90176830
i would also add spencer and waid to the list

Not calling half your audience literally Hitler is a sound business plan

>>90177090
IMC may have jumped off the SJW wagon but his habits are still noticeable

>>90177133
>Spencer

Have you not read Hydra Cap?

>>90176847
Secret Empire and Nomad are easily the best examples. Great espionage and action, and yet allowed for Steve to mature as a character in a way he hadn't before.

>>90177183
Have you read Sam Wilson?

>>90176830
we also need to remove Land and whoever the artist on the current Thunderbolts run is

>>90177000
Basically Cap finds out there's another evil organization out there that stemmed from Hydra, but it was a bit more subtle in its plans. Eventually he finds out Number 1 (the leader) is Nixon, and the organization is lead by top political leaders. He starts questioning what he fights for and briefly becomes Nomad.

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How the fuck are they going to handle this?

>>90177247
Unfortunately I have, but I can just ignore that, no need to get rid of him for writing one garbo series while he writes another good one, if he left after Hydra Cap I wouldnt care tho

>>90177303
Sounds good, whats the comic called?

>>90176767
So long as they have boring writers, TERRIBLE webcomic-tier artists, and an editorial staff that just straight-up isn't doing their jobs, Marvel cannot be great again.

They need a monumental shakeup from the inside and I don't see that happening yet.

>>90176830
Where are politics in Slott comics?

>>90177398
Who cares about politics, Slott just sucks

>>90176767
Alonso or Brevoort.

One of them must go.

Not transferred to another division of Disney/Marvel Studios/Marvel TV

One of them needs to be outright fired. This creative fiasco was under their watch & if they want readers to come back? Somebody's head needs to be hung on the palace door.

>>90177398
Not him but while Slott can be fucking stupid at times, I do like how he doesnt shove poltiics into Spider-Man, he must just not care about it

>>90177398
well he had norman osborne renting Goblins Sans Frontiers to middle-eastern warlords to oppress the people

>>90177415
i second this he have sucked for a decade its time to get rid of him

>>90177342
Secret Empire. Winter Soldier nabbed a few ideas from it.

>>90176767
Did they get rid of Joe Q.? No? Then the answer is no.

>>90176767
Not until they stop the event-driven shit train, get better writers and artist, and change there marketing strategy to not being outrage or political-pandering driven.

Also they need to stop with all the MCU bullshit synergy but I doubt that will ever happen

The problem today with Marvel is that they legitmately don't know what made them a success to begin with and they're unable to see a good thing when its staring them right in the face. Blame it on shock value clickbait tier gimmicks to get press, or catering to a market that isnt there, take your pick. But perhaps the best example of Marvel's decline is Robbie Reyes. Alright character, his ethnicity isnt a big damn deal, legacy that doesnt completely shit all over his predecessor, HOWEVER where they fucked up is not fleshing him out. All Marvel cares about is events, team ups, and basically, advertising whats coming rather than whats there. Good writing has taken a backseat to gimmicks, and nearly every time someone might begin to care about a book BOOM we're back at issue one.

>>90176767
They would need to destroy the multiverse and start from scratch to be great again.

>>90177324
All the originals are gonna get punked and look like a bunch of bitches.
Then they're gonna see how much better the guys are than them and decide to let them take over in their place.

>>90177842
I swear to fucking god if this happens...

Politics is fine as long as it is handled well, just stop being hamfisted with it, fuck.

>>90176767
I'll believe it when I actually see it or we have official word from Marvel about the direction they're planning to take. Anything less and it's just baseless rumors

>>90176767
unless they fire all their current writers besides Ewing and hire good writers, no

>>90178120
Also keep the girl whose writing Captain Marvel too

>>90178158
nope

everyone but Ewing

and I guess that guy on Nova

>>90177569
>>90177679

>Not until they stop the event-driven shit train
>All Marvel cares about is events

God, all of the This.

I don't give a shit about WORLD SHAKING EVENTS because they're hyped up, I care because they're happening to characters I'm invested in.

Which is why I have barely cared enough to read storytimes since roughly the FIRST Civil War, much less actually give them fucking $4.00 for a comic that takes fifteen minutes to read if I'm lucky and tells me 10% of a story.

>>90178320
>I don't give a shit about WORLD SHAKING EVENTS

Hell these arent even event tier events anymore

For example recent Spider-Man arc
>If we let the carrion virus spread every human on the planet could be infected!

Current Mighty Thor arc
>If you dont play this game with the gods, their invisible ship will destroy the earth!

>>90177324
"We are all so shit...Our diverse successors are clearly the best, greatest, that has ever been seen."

>>90178492
I really hope if this does happen it sparks a HUGE jumping off point for all the real fans, then the sales will fucking plummet because all the tumblr progressive who praise the successors dont actually buy the comics they just reblog out of context panels and pretend to love them

>>90178521
sales are already in freefall, it's why they're Rebirthing

>>90176767
You know, I want the X-Men to be heroes as much as the next guy but being an oppressed minority has always been kind of their thing and a huge part of their culture.

I hope they don't go TOO far in the other direction.

>>90178547
this doesnt look like stake and potatoes anon-kun>>90177324

>>90176767
The only people thinking politics is the primary problem with Marvel are the ones that don't read the comics in the first place. Marvel's problem is more like >>90176805 and >>90177679 and >>90178320 point out. Marvel could be non-political and still have bad writing given the way a lot of comics have been in the last three years.

>>90177912
That you'll just complain on /co/ for a while?

>>90178547
Yeah but if they rebirth by removing all the classic heroes and still just push the new ones like that picture suggests, the sales will plummet even worse

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>>90177324
>at the start
>two women, nine men, all white
>at the end
>seven women, four men
>of the women, five are white, one is pakistani, one is black
>of the three men, one is white, two are black, one is asian

Why is this allowed?

Why couldnt all of the new characters have their own mantles instead of replacing the originals for diversity pandering?

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>>90178175
>Ewing

>>90178592
rigth i dont even buy a single book theres nothing more i can do

>>90178600
>Why couldnt all of the new characters have their own mantles
Because they'd sell like shit.

>>90178580
>>90178595
I don't think Generations is necessarily part of the Rebirth-ish initiative, but I do know that they're aware of people dropping books because of the legacies

also Nick Spencer's Captain America has been a specifically cited example of a cause of people dropping Marvel so

>>90178609
Are you just one autistic guy or are there a whole team of autists just waiting for Ewing to get mentioned

>>90178620
But Anon they already sell like shit.

>>90178628
it's always just one person
>Bitch Aaron
>Barneyfag
>Bitch Ewing

>>90178592
>for a while

You underestimate me

>>90178600
Because then nobody would notice them, though I wish they did get their own mantles

>>90178609
Troll

>>90178613
I dont buy them either, feels good reading everything online

>>90178626
Which Captain America? Steve or Sam?

>>90178666
>Because then nobody would notice them, though I wish they did get their own mantles
But the only reason they dont get attention is because they dont put the resources and effort into giving them attention.

>>90178666
Steve

>>90178645
Some didn't sell so poorly when introduced, like Kamala, and Miles somehow still sells well, and Sam became sales poison over time.

Could be worse, they could sell like Mosaic.

>>90178698
Weird, I actually really like Steve's series

>>90178709
>Miles somehow still sells well
>a book called Spider-Man somehow still sells well
really gets the noggin' a-joggin'.

>>90178741
people were really miffed about HydraCap, and even beyond that ending every issue with a huge cliffhanger

>>90176767

Did Hopeless die of testicular cancer yet?

>>90178776
>people were really miffed about HydraCap

The majority of those "people" were MCU only fans on twitter who wanted to make a big deal out of it so they could say DUDE CAPTAIN TRUMP LMAO, those people dont buy comics anyway

>>90178844
there has been a noticeable drop in sales in both SamCap and SteveCap, and shop owners are saying people are dropping Marvel as a whole because of it

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>>90178628
You'll never know....

>>90178774
The name Spider-Man alone wouldn't carry him this far.

>>90178844
Yes that's right anon just dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as a normie.

>>90178902
I said the majority, not everyone, I am aware there are actual comic fans who dont like it too

>>90178884
>Dropping all of Marvel because one title pisses you off

>>90177416
That's a tough one. I can stomach Alonso, but Tom is better at every aspect of the business. On the other hand it's Tom brevoort...

I vote Alonso to leave, as much as I hate Tom,

>>90178893
You'd be surprised. Im beginning to think Miles' numbers are grossly exaggerated and what readers he does have are the leftovers from the Ultimate universe who are desperately checking in to see if anything is fucking happening.

>>90178929
HydraCap is the most emblematic of all the bullshit going on at Marvel: hamfisted political insertion, change for the sake of controversy, and issue-ending bait-and-switch cliffhangers that are revealed immediately as "twas but a ruse" in the next issue

>>90178990
But wouldn't the name thing extend to Spider-Woman and 2099? They still sell like shit.

>>90176805
>>90176847
>>90176874

Well one thing to make sure it's well done is to not do it at all. That would be be safest bet. But like >>90176860 pointed out, there is a fine line between talking about politics and just being straight up propaganda.

It's propaganda when you have all the heroes repeat things the writers preferred politicos say and the villains are all almost literal copied and pasted views from someone the writer got into a fighting match on Twitter with. That's propaganda. And bad writing.

A way around this would be too either present both sides of a political view honestly before having a character choose a side or better yet not choose a side and form their own. There is a better way to handle politics in writing and modern Marvel's way of doing it is not that better way.

>>90179068
>Spider-woman
not Spider-MAN
>Spider-man 2099
subtitles don't sell as well as the main

>>90179120
Miles isn't the main though, you can tell by a quick glance of any of the covers let alone reading 12 issues of his shit.

>>90179208
it's not but he also doesn't have a subtitle so people might think it is a main. It wasn't that long ago when we had like 4 Spider-man titles at once

DC has significant gay characters and Green Arrow, an open radical leftist, has been an A lister or a B lister (depending on when we're talking about) since the Bronze age at least. Renee Montoya (an LGBT Latina woman) becoming The Question was awesome, and I thought the original was an interesting character. One Batgirl was an Asian-American woman. Static was (is?) a black superhero with an openly gay sidekick.

John Constantine was a chain-smoking bisexual ex punk rocker who literally flipped off God (and also the devil, to be fair), and his comic is clearly pretty left-leaning, and now he's been melded into the main DCU.

Grant Morrison, arguably the most well-known comic book writer active today, and extremely popular on /co/, is pretty much definitely some kind of socialist, and I think he might have called himself an anarchist before (or at least King Mob, who is supposed to be Morrison in a fictional form, has).

Superman beat up slum lords and corrupt businessmen back in the day, fighting for the working class.

Despite ALL this, Marvel gets shit on for its politics. Maybe the mere fact of including politics (even non-conservative politics) isn't Marvel's problem.

>>90179245
DC had those characther for decades marlel on the other hand desided to go full pandering a couple of years ago

>>90178600
>White
Nova's a spic

>>90179286
Gay Alan Scott, black Wally.

>>90179286
That doesn't seem to explain it, since they had to be introduced at some point. Marvel's problem is that it often makes hamfisted, lazy, token efforts. I mean, look at the exceptions. For example, lots of people love Kamala.

>>90179245
>Green Arrow has been an A lister or a B lister

lolwhut? he's B to C list, tops.

>>90179336
Have been widely panned. Your point?

>>90176767

> readers have been turned off by Marvel’s output and have called for a return to less political storylines—or at least ones that don’t blatantly reference current events at the earliest opportunity.

This actually sums up the issue nicely too. It's not just about politics per say but how political fads and memes end up in comics so quick that by the time they come out the comic ends up looking stupid because it was referencing something history, even a few months after the fact, said differently about.

It's like how the news media comments on everything before all the facts are out. It feels like people are just pushing their current political-inspired fads into their writing and that doesn't work for these kinds of stories unlike a webcomic or something else that's made for it.

>>90179347
kamala is different for a lot of reason but primaly becuase she toke a name who nobody was using and overall she is a decent characther on his own

>>90179361
>Have been widely panned
Don't see how that's relevant.
>Your point?
>DC had those characther for decades

>>90176805
its a lot easier to change a story about being trapped on an island full of dinosaurs than Spider-woman getting preggers because she felt like it

>>90177324
I guess Ross has chilled out on the whole "muh silver age" thing.

>>90179406
he hasn't chilled on the whole "we'll pay you $10,000 per cover" thing

>>90179397
Yeah, my point is that hamfisted, lazy attempts to do anything will be hated, and good efforts which may include adding diversity but aren't limited to that in itself, will be recognized as good.

>>90179400
Your original point was that Marvel has been criticized for forced diversity while DC has not. I've demonstrated that that is not the case, and where it's been done badly in DC it's met with criticism, DC just hasn't constantly doubled down on it.

>>90179459
I'm not the guy who posted the wall of text.

>>90179459
So, I'm not >>90179400 but I am >>90179245 and my point was that DC has OVERALL not been criticized for injecting diversity into things. Not because fans are unfair, but because DC has generally done a better job of it.

Talking about tendencies, not hard-and-fast rules with no exceptions.

>>90179397
Kamala reminds me of Jaime Reyes a bit, in that she was a brand new character introduced as a diversity legacy that was actually developed as a character in her own right, not just a minority checkbox created for the sake of pandering.

Both ended up being fairly well received, which is especially impressive for Jaime because Ted Kord had recently snuffed it before he showed up.

Too bad Marvel's shitting the bed with Kamala by ignoring everything that made her stand out as a developing character in her own solo, in favour of shoving her in every single team book and event possible. Worse still, often just to be used as a preachy, insufferable, socjus mouthpiece.

>>90179532
yup preaty mutch, also this has hurt his solo sales

>>90179565
her*