Since there's no WW thread currently I have to ask: did

>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
It happens every time. They're used to it.

>>90175669
>there's no WW thread currently
And it should stay that way, you fucking retard. Delete this shit and fuck off.

>>90175669
>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
New writer completely ignoring/retconing Woder Woman previous runs is pretty much the usual, only people that have only read Azz run care.

>>90175823

wahhh wahhhh wahhhh

>>90175669
>How did Wonder Woman fans react ?
Some fans were happy and some fans who barely know her character were mad.

>>90175961
>only people that have only read Azz run care.
Fuck Yourself.

>>90176000
>and some fans who barely know her character were mad.
FUCK YOURSELF!

>>90176009
He's right though. I only see complaining from people who said Azz was their first Wonder Woman.

>>90176009
Azz-fag detected. Go jerk off to your evil Amazons and Endless ripoffs elsewhere.

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thread needs more wonder tits

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and wonder butt

>>90175669
Wonder Woman unfortunately lacks consistency. Every writer comes along with their own idea of what Diana is supposed to be and do their own thing, ranging from mediocre to shit depending on who you ask. This arc is just another to fall out of memory
>>90175961
While true, I do think Azz's run gets an unwarranted amount of shit on here. There are FAR worse runs on WW and frankly it was fun for what it was. But yeah I wouldnt call it essential by any means, and the New God stuff didnt really mesh well with the story. Had some fun ideas though

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>>90175961
>>90176000
>>90176053
>>90176064
I love when lying retard fucks claim the older Wonder Woman comics were never dark dour battle & war oriented books.

>>90175669
This is still my favorite WW outfit to come out of the last decade of trying to reinvent the wheel. Shame it didn't stay around too long. Animated Wondy really knocks it out in the movies.

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>>90176234

>>90175823
Carolfags need to leave

>>90176234
Sadly, that's not the complaint.

It's not what happened. Well, it is, but what that happening meant to the greater mythos and symbolic nature of the character.

Azz' run wasn't overall bad, but it made some pretty bad calls which marred the title beyond what many could tolerate.

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>>90176266

>>90176321
It always bugged me when the Amazons were used as "War Fodder" because . . . They aren't making new ones in that continuity. They just . . .are. There are Finite Amazons, and the stories rarely point that out as a real kicker to the tragedies involved.

>>90176353
>Finite
Not anymore....I think. Is the sailor fucking still canon?

>>90175961
>>90176000
Just because some of us prefer her to be more serious and warrior-ish does not mean that is are only experience with her.

Plenty of people are mad because the current run is boring & meandering as fuck pace-wise compared to Azz's run & I say that as someone who liked both runs.

>>90176064
We can love Azz's run overall and hate the evil amazon aspect.

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>>90176234

not everyone may have liked Azz run, but it was the WW thing in the past 10 years at least.

>>90176380
I don't think so, and that was one of the things that people got mad at the Azz run for.

>>90176412
Well that and the daughter of Zeus retcon

Retconning the Amazon's being fucked up isn't the problem, the problem is retconning the awesome character & design work with the gods in exchange for fucking woodland animals.
The problem is revoking the awesome background added to Ares & Diana's replationship. It made him a MUCH more 3d character.

>>90176489
I am fine with her being the daughter of Zues, that makes no difference to me.

>>90176502
>in exchange for fucking woodland animals.

You do know that, with a few exceptions, those are the animals that were sacred to those gods, right?

I don't like Rucka's current run because it reeks of him pitching a fit. It reads like a l fix-fic, like he said at the start, "I'm going to do RIGHT by Diana, I'm going to MAKE HER GOOD." It feels super fanfiction-y, not in a good way either. On that note, it also feels like he took some kind of deep offense at the changes Azz made in his run, hence why he's retconned them so ruthlessly.

>>90176573
Well, to be fair, Azz and Rucka disagree heavily on what the core of Diana's character is.

Or rather, feel "Love" is demonstrated in different ways.

>>90176559
I don't care if it makes contextual sense, I want to see epic gods & monsters being badass.

Many of us come to Wonder Woman for the same reason we come to Thor, for epic god stuff.

>>90176573
Im conflicted. What I'd like is some consistency and her, and her rogues to get proper characterization this day and age but at the same time when you start laying it down you get that "not muh" conundrum. And I feel the Justice League book did far more damage to her than whatever her solo did

>>90175669
>Since there's no WW thread currently I have to ask: did they really just go back on this whole storyline ?
Same reason they did the same with Kanigher's and O'Neil's. They felt it wasn't resonating with the fans, so they ditched it.

Though the way they did it to O'Neil's was horribly unacceptable.

>>90176289
Eat a fat one. /co/ should NEVER talk about Wonder Woman for any reason. Most people here, despite feeling entitled to bitch about how much they hate her, outright refuse to actually read any of her books from before 2011, likely due to the influence of the DCAU, which solidified the false perception of Diana as a "me hate men! me kill!" asshole.

Additionally, a good chuck of posters are fans of the Azzarello run, which features the Amazons being evil(a type of portrayal that severely pisses off long time Wondy fans due to such a thing missing the point, and bringing up the wretched memory of Amazons Attack), yet more focus on the Olympians which got old even in the early days of the franchise, and that kill yourself annoying framing quirk where characters will finish each others sentences as a transition. I will never understand why so many people like that run despite it being pedestrian at best and offensive at worst.

There's no point in having a Wondy thread on /co/ because it's all the same shit every time. A bunch of retarded casuals spewing bullshit out of their flapping mouths.

Making a WW thread should really be a bannable offense at this point.

>>90176665
>and her rogues to get proper characterization this day and age
But that is exactly what Azz gave to the gods in his run and it's what Rucka is doing with Cheetah right now.

>>90176665
The Superman/Wonder Woman book didn't help either.

Though I admit, I laughed when Apollo blasted Supes and then realized what a mistake he has made.

>>90176573
>On that note, it also feels like he took some kind of deep offense at the changes Azz made in his run, hence why he's retconned them so ruthlessly.

He is an alleged feminist. Most of them feel wronged since they believe Azz played the Amazons straight from the Greek myths which were not so flattering in many instances. Fucking idiots.

>>90176719
>due to such a thing missing the point
EXACTLY what is the fucking point?

>>90176750
You do remember that Wondy's origins are a lot more than just the Greek Myths right?

They're also mixed in Feminism and OH so much Bondage Fetish.

>>90176746
>The Superman/Wonder Woman book didn't help either.
Only the flashbacks to the origin arc, otherwise her characterization was on point in that book.

>>90176719
>I will never understand why so many people like that run despite it being pedestrian at best and offensive at worst.

Because it deviated from so many established tropes. Ares wasn't evil. Her origin wasn't as clay, but as a daughter of Zeus. The Amazons were not morally good and she wasn't a emissary of peace. The latter in particular has become tiresome especially in our current era.

>>90176798
Yes and many of us want them to play down that bullshit.
The "women can do no wrong" aspect of her feminism should have fucking died with Batman's duel 1911s he stole from the Shadow.

>>90176729
But Azz was basically retconned away, hence my point. They need to fucking stick with something already. Rucka is off to a rough start, but at least hes trying

>>90176798
Two things that also really don't belong in WW in this era. Prioritizing one gender only another is no better than misogyny or the "toxic masculinity" decried by feminists.

>>90176766
Wonder Woman is his waifu, no one else's.

>>90176729
I can take or leave his Cheetah - leaning a bit more towards leave, his Doctor Cyber is fantastic, but what in God's name was he thinking with Doctor Poison? But the real shitshow of his run is that we get to set through more Veronica Cale. Fuck that.

>>90176871
Literally all he's doing is bringing back the status quo from when his original run ended. We can all see it. Fucking Ferdinand is back. Why?

>>90176928
>but what in God's name was he thinking with Doctor Poison?
The white blonde one? That was THE FINCH not Rucka.

>>90176928
Havent caught up with Rebirth, in brief what has Rucka done with WW's rogues exactly?

>>90176855
Your misunderstanding the point.

>>90176902
And you think Feminism is an the Devil apparently.

Look, to keep it simple, Diana is, when boiled down to her basics, Amazon Jesus.

She is a lady warrior from a society of lady warriors.

She is also a divine being from a celestial paradise here to make the world a better place.

If you taint her celestial abode, her missing to make the world a better place becomes tainted as well.

So, that's why Rapist Amazons are a bad idea, QED.

>>90176982
Remember Rucka's run from before the Nu52?

He's basically rebuilding that.

Since that's one of the best modern run's Diana's had, I fail to see why the complaints are so vociferous.

>>90176840
>>90176855
>"I like the Amazons being evil cunts!"
Kill yourselves. What, them being paranoid isolationists who look down on other nations isn't enough? They have to be murderous assholes as well? Fuck off.

That's another reason /co/ should never ever talk about Wonder Woman. Bunch of fucking edgelords the lot of you.

>>90177046
It's annoyingly transparent that he's doing it. He's trying to go back in time. It's not working, at least not for me.

>>90176973
Meh I don't mind Rucka trying to give Diana a supporting cast because she really fucking needs one. She rarely interacts with anyone outside the JL or the gods these days.

>>90177007
I don't think feminism is devil. I think feminism has outlived its usefulness as a political ideology in the developing world though it does have its uses in the Global South. But I doubt any WW writer is going to address that. It's just not sexy.

>She is also a divine being from a celestial paradise here

That was not really true in Azz run. They were just a fragmentary remnant from the Greco Roman Era who perpetrated themselves through murder. Arguably I think it's sharper commentary on the pre-modern and human society as a whole.

so...
much..

Azz-pain

Am I the only one who sees the Azzazons as good people forced to do bad things?

>>90177049
>What, them being paranoid isolationists who look down on other nations isn't enough?

That was essentially his point io. Amazing that your kind missed it by a mile.

>>90177007
Diana is more interesting when she ISN'T some savior figure, IMO. Or, rather, when her mission to man's world is complicated by wrinkles in her own personality.

This is the flaw in Marston's origin. Perfect characters aren't interesting. That's why Paradise Island being perfect isn't interesting.

>>90177046
>Since that's one of the best modern run's Diana's had, I fail to see why the complaints are so vociferous
It feels repetitive and redundant at this point, but it's not like the Finches left anything from Azz's run anyway. It's a solid foundation for someone else to do something more interesting with. I actually like Cale this time around, and Cyber is pretty good too, but Cale has never and will never be that appealing to anyone besides Rucka. He should shuffle her offstage once he's done with her.

I had a idea on how to reboot Giganta, lord knows she needs reinvented. About the only thing I remember her in were those brief Forever Evil tie-ins, and her costume sucked too

>>90177049
No I said here... >>90176412
That I don't like them being evil, I would be fine with them making babies with sailors if they just hadn't killed the sailors afterwards, could have had them use magic to make the sailors forget or something.

>>90177159
>I actually like Cale this time around, and Cyber is pretty good too
Agreed.

>>90177149
>That's why Paradise Island being perfect isn't interesting
This is something I agree with. Eden's don't really give rise to the drama necessary to be interesting unless you destroy, subvert, or corrupt them, which is why Themyscaria gets fucking wrecked so often. I'd prefer if Diana's decision to leave the Island was a choice she made against the wishes of everyone else, and the contest was simply her way of testing herself.

>>90177149

They didnt feel that magical in that run though, it feels like their tech and culture was reduced on purpose and the barbarism is part of that.

>>90177131
>Good people forced to do bad things
In a warped wrong sort of way yeah. The Amazons were always wrong about isolation, and they're cunts for killing sailors just so they could continue. Hell the biggest hero in Azz was Hephaestus since he offered to take the male offspring in exchange for weapons, otherwise those children would have been killed Spartan style

>>90176974
No, the generic evil mercenary he's calling Poison.

>>90176982
Cheetah is mostly the same he's just doing character stuff with her, Doctor Poison now has nothing to do with poisons and heads a rather generic looking mook squad, Doctor Cyber is now a ghost in the machine type deal, Veronica Cale is now a single mom.

>>90177077
Diana has a supporting cast almost all the time, it's just that writers change her supporting cast. If anything WW's supporting cast was very stable from Nu52 to Rebirth; all Rucka is doing is clearing out WW's supporting cast per usual.

>>90177131
Yes I think strangely enough it's better and sharper commentary on inhumane and coercive mechanisms in all societies than all-men-being-misogynists arguments. That ultimately what drives the inequalities in sex/gender is more arguably survival and later economic modes of production. But of course writers like Rucka who view themselves as thinkers ultimately are too cowardly to go there.

>>90177149
>>90177244
>implying Themyscira has ever been perfect outside the Golden Age
Casuals need to be permabanned. Read a fucking book, you fucking retards.

>>90177312
>Diana has a supporting cast almost all the time, it's just that writers change her supporting cast. If anything WW's supporting cast was very stable from Nu52 to Rebirth; all Rucka is doing is clearing out WW's supporting cast per usual.
I agree writers need to be better about respecting what came before, but Azz's cast got destroyed by the Finches not Rucka. Zeke just turned back into Zeus out of nowhere, Donna got that fucking awful new origin, the Manazons got killed off, there really wasn't much left.

Steve and Etta and Ferdinad are a nice start, but I wouldn't mind seeing Nubia, or some of Diana's half brothers or sisters via Zeus showed up. Jason is still out there and we'll see if he's a hero or villain.

>>90177362
Thank you for proving my point.

>>90177312
>Doctor Poison now has nothing to do with poisons and heads a rather generic looking mook squad

They at least had that bit about her making bio weapons.

>>90177362
Fuck off autist, we were talking about if it actually was perfect, and how the misconception caused it to get sacked. You Wondyfags need to fucking get permabanned, you're the biggest roadblack to discussion since you just scream
>NOT MUHHHHHHHHHHH

>>90175669
As a Wonder Woman reader that only gain interest to the character because of Azz, I dropped Wonder Woman altogether and stop caring about her after the rape that Flinch and Rucka did.

I liked the new 52 Wonder Woman. It made the Amazons actual people with different personalities instead of the inverse of the "Stepford Wives" trope where they all have to be super nice, yet for some reason be warriors living in paradise? Like...huh?

I also hate the idea of finite amazons who never upgrade their technology. I mean, living for centuries upon centuries on an island and their still brandishing sword and shield? I get the look of it, I mean it does look cool, but I'm kinda tired of the...

"What is this world of men?"...sorta existence they were often portrayed as. Women can be just as dynamic, evil, and world-weary as their opposite.

In either case, that's my piece.

>>90177362
Read the Jimenez and Post-Crisis Rucka eras. And their argument is that political conflict is ultimately because of patriarch's world such as the United States of America intruding into their waters or Hercules splitting up the Amazons after he enslaved them. There is no incident where it's all their fault or the fault of their backwards monarchy.

>>90177362
The biggest argument against Diana is how fucking awful her fanbase is
> DIANA IS GOOD AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE FUCK YOU REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>90177360
>a man beating his wife is a matter of survival

>>90177486
Right on mate.

>>90177465
I think you missed the entire point of the Amazon's and Themyscira. They're set in their ways, stubborn, and cut off from the rest of the world because they think paradise is just avoiding the issue altogether

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Also at the end of the day I don't much care about the deep themes of comics. I read comic books for cool shit, and so far Azz's run is cooler than Rucka's.

>>90177465
There's the Bana Amazons who are more involved with the world, Diana's Amazons chose to go be hippies and worship the gods on their island. As an isolationist island nation it makes sense their tech doesn't really advance. They should really substitute tech with magic though.

Honestly I'm more worried with who's going to take over after Rucka leaves. We REALLY don't need someone to try again to fucking tell the "definitive" Wonder Woman story. We just need someone who will take Rucka's status quo and do something mildly interesting with it, preferably without resorting to more god stories. Give some focus to Circe or reinvent one of Diana's old villains, or fuck it make your own.

>>90177460
It's hard not to scream that when you're frustrated that so much discussion is being had by idiots who don't care about, nor read any substantial amount of the material. Maybe if you actually bothered to read more than one run, before talking all kinds of shit, you wouldn't have fans of the IP crawling up your ass all the time, dumbass.

You think I'd go into a Blue Beetle thread and start giving opinions despite having little knowledge on the subject? Fuck no, cause that's fucking stupid.

>>90175669
>this whole storyline
>Posts a shitty, inscrutable fanart,

>>90177502
>men beat women because men are misogynists not because of the gender hierarchy of human society that has developed overtime due to the dominant economic/agricultural modes of production in human history that has given men greater economic and social power

>>90177660
>New villain
They tried that with First Born and we got a screaming autist who fucked hyenas because daddy never noticed him

>>90177665
>before talking all kinds of shit
Show me where I did this you fucking retard.

Go REEEEEEE somewhere else, we were having a civil discussion before your stupid ass felt the need to do some autistic screeching.

>>90177665
>You think I'd go into a Blue Beetle thread and start giving opinions despite having little knowledge on the subject? Fuck no, cause that's fucking stupid.
Of course you would anon. We're on fucking 4chan.

>>90177712
Kek yeah Firstborn was awful, but Azz was gone and to be honest iirc he took the job because Dido threatened him that if he didn't they were going to go full retard with Diana in the New 52.

So his heart probably wasn't all in it, I'd still love to see him take one of Diana's villains and give them the Luthor treatment. But I also welcome other people trying to add some new villains as long as her classic rogues' gallery gets some focus too.

>>90176234
no one ever said that

>>90177665
I don't know anon you sure act like an insufferable know it all asshole.

>>90177427
Donna's new origin was great. It was a legitimately good thing even if the run itself was shit. Concise, thematically linked, and conducive to character development and story ideas. Then they had to go and publish Titans Hunt.

>>90177453
That'd be like them revamping Iron Man into a magician then talking about the time he built a suit of armor in a cave with a box of scraps. Winking references count for shit.

>>90177472
I think what goads me the most about Themysciraian politics and views is that they somehow think that an absolute monarchy the size of a small town that gets infinite resources and protection by divine beings that spent millennia completely cut off from the rest of the world has any leg to stand on discussing any form of geopolitical issue.

>>90177735
You've been talking shit since your fist post, moron. You have done nothing but display gross ignorance of the subject at hand, and you don't even seem to actually care much for this property, raising the question of why the hell you're even here.

>>90177738
Fuck off, not everyone is a /b/tard. Some of us actually want to talk about stuff, but are unable to due to a severe lack of sources for intelligent and/or well informed conversation.

>>90177843
>You've been talking shit since your fist post, moron. You have done nothing but display gross ignorance of the subject at hand, and you don't even seem to actually care much for this property, raising the question of why the hell you're even here.
Link it you stupid fucking faggot. And high talk from a fucking moron who's sole contribution has been screaming about how anyone who doesn't like YOUR Wondy is fucking wrong and REEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Fuck off back to CBR you waste of space.

>>90177843
>everyone is a /b/tard
Not everyone, just you. You're not contributing anything but your asshurt at people who don't agree with you.

>>90177660
He hasn't really established a status quo for Diana yet.

>>90177800
>take one of Diana's villains and give them the Luthor treatment.
Ares. That's exactly what he did with Ares.

>>90177829
In real life their system of government would be called theocracy and only the most oppressive states on Earth have that sort of system including Saudi Arabia, Islamic State and North Korea.

>>90177903
Messner Loeb already tried that with Ares in his run. And I think his run was an unmitigated disaster.

I honestly feel bad for Wonder Woman fans. I've read all of Rucka's work, all of Azzarello's work, and the first dozen or so issues of Perez's work, basically all the runs considered to be Wonder Woman's best, and I've never thought they were anything better than decent.

There HAS to be a truly great Wonder Woman story to be told, but as far as I'm concerned no one's done it yet. At best, her comics are just kind of bland.

>>90177901
>>90177876
Guys, leave Greg alone. He's just venting.

>>90177823
This isnt the first time Ive seen WW posting like this. One time I genuinely asked about recommended reading and he went full autist about how I dont really care about reading WW. Its either shitposting or a extremely sad Wonderfag, either case just ignore it fellas. He has nothing to add except "YOU DONT REALLY LIKE/KNOW SHIT ABOUT WONDER WOMAN"

>>90177712

I'd like it if anyone ever cared enough to bring the First Born back that instead of having him be a villain, he'd just try to awkwardly impress his imouto.

>>90178021

I'd settle to just giving him a name.

>>90177172
>Just realized now I never posted my pitch
Whoops.
>Giganta is now retconned to be the bastard child of Atlas
>Doesnt really feel bad for her fathers eternal torment, but is sick of being treated like shit both from the gods and titans (since shes only half titan and titan offspring led to their downfall)
>Was cursed as a gorilla for a brief time because her mother is a cunt and wanted to hide her existence from Olympus
>Giganta wants to bring Mt Olympus crashing down by killing her father, who doesnt hold up the sky but Olympus itself (metaphorically the heavens)
>Is at odds with Wonder Woman
Shit idea or would read?

>>90177876
>>90177901
Why would I contribute to an inherently shitty topic? This thread is just a bunch of Azz-fags whining that their precious Endless ripoffs aren't around anymore.

The Olympians need to leave the franchise for a while, ideally forever, because they are the albatross holding it back from doing something actually unique, as opposed to shoehorning their cliche bullshit into absolutely everything.

And yet, there's so many of you idiotic casuals who defend that crap and demand more, because apparently you enjoy the same shit over and over. Engaging you in real conversation is pointless and, in a way, unacceptable, since you would be content with letting this property continue to suffocate under the weight of its worst element. Fucking Azz-fags.

Also, fuck Greece. Needs to be fucking nuked.

>>90178105

Diana has plenty of villains from greek mythology already. You don't need to convert all the rest.

>>90177660
>We just need someone who will take Rucka's status quo and do something mildly interesting with it,
Fuck that. The new Wonder Woman writer should continue the tradition and throw the previous writer under the bus and retcon everything.

>>90177923
It's not a theocracy. Theocracies are specifically controlled by religious authorities, while there can be an overlap between the two - England under Henry the VIII or Wakanda for a fictional example - Hippolyta doesn't seem to hold any form of religious authority. In real life this was often muddied due to close ties between church and state or secular rulers being powerful enough to influence church matters and vice versa.

>>90177958
That's fine. Everyone has their own tastes. I personally think All-Star Superman is bland myself. If you haven't already read it, try The Hiketeia; it's from Rucka but it's essentially a Greek tragedy rewritten with superheroes. I think it really showcases the "world" Diana lives in and how it is different from the other superheroes.

>>90178121
You keep shouting Azz fags when it was made clear that most here treat it like an elseworlds to be indifferent about, not definitive WW by any means. So keep screeching faggot

>Batman (and Superman, as of Rebirth) enjoy a mostly unbroken continuity going back 30+ years
>Wonder Woman gets repackaged every five or ten

Wondy gets no respect.

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>>90177800
>Dido threatened him that if he didn't they were going to go full retard with Diana in the New 52.
And then DC went full retard with Diana after he left the book. The one takeaway from this is that you should never trust Dan Didio.

>>90177968
That's your own damn fault for being a rec-fag. Just google it, you lazy piece of shit.

>read the good runs
>just decent
Oh, you just have shit taste. Never mind then.

>>90178105
I think it's better to have at least some of Wondie's villains not directly tied to the Gods. Maybe have it so that Giganta is the first villain Diana encounters when she becomes a hero.

>>90177903
>Ares. That's exactly what he did with Ares
I disagree. For Luthor he was still a villain but we got to see inside his head in a way we really hadn't before. It made him feel deeper as a character.

h Ares we got an entirely new character, very good, but not really a villain anymore.

>>90178130
True, I just think it works better for Giganta to have magic greek ties than Cheetah, who can remain a freak experiment instead of that dagger shit. Or do you prefer Giganta as the evil scientist/gorilla/bodyswap shenanigans?

>>90178210
>read the good runs
>just decent
Where? Where did I fucking say that? At least keep your shitposting straight dumbass. I never said what I previously read or my thoughts on it.

>>90178105
>>90178130
Post-Infinite Crisis Giganta was in a really good spot character-wise, just return to that.

There have been some good ideas on how to revamp WW villains in various WW threads and very few of them were improved by adding Greek mythology.

>>90178208
Azz took the book because Didio basically tricked him into making a WW pitch by telling him about all the shitty WW pitches they had gotten. It wasn't that DC wanted to go full retard with Diana, it's that full retard was the only thing they had to work with at the time.

>>90177958
>At best, her comics are just kind of bland
Part of the problem is that not many people are actually fans Diana. they love her because "feminism" or "muh first female hero" or "muh strong woman", but they don't really know her. She's a symbol not a character to them.

Batman and Superman have benefited from having lots of fans who enjoy earlier authors work and want to deepen and expand their mythos rather than just fucking toss everything out so they can be THE Wonder Woman writer.

Another problem is that Diana's personality keeps flip flopping. Clark is the Hero, smiling, upbeat, optimistic, even at his lowest. Bruce is the Anti-Hero, brooding, more dark and cynical, but still solidly good. So what do you do with Diana? Most decide she gets to be the edgy bitch that Clark and Bruce needs to reign in or they make her the so sweet it's sickening Disney Princess. It doesn't help when a character flip flops between those two extremes. Like seriously she started as the most anti-lethal of the three and then somehow became the most bloodthirsty.

>>90178230
Cheetah has never been a freak experiment except for in the DCAU

>>90178172
Not exactly. Theocracies are states and government whose legitimacy and justification came from religion. The best example of this is Saudi Arabia. The ruling family isn't really part of the religious establishment, but rather their legitimacy comes from their long association and alliance with Wahabism.

>>90176719
>DCAU, which solidified the false perception of Diana as a "me hate men! me kill!" asshole.
Wot? There's an entire arc about her stopping a fellow Amazon from wiping out all men everywhere.

>>90178208
As someone else mentioned Dido went to Azz because all the other pitches were fucking awful and when Azz left they didn't really have anyone left to write. Editorial was fucking awful and had scared off most of the writers and people were demanding a female writer and Finch was all they had.

>>90178372
You're right, my mistake

I'm not caught up yet, what happened? Did something get retconned?

>>90178220
Diana should get the mystical side of DC like Clark get's the Cosmic and Bruce get's the Street-Level. Bring in some Lords of Order and Chaos, bring Shazam for Christ's sake have her take him under her wing, bring in Zatanna, explore how magic works in the DC. Hell bring in some more pantheons if you have to, getting tied down to Greek only shit isn't a good idea. So far the best thing about Rucka's Rebirth has been Doctor Cyber who's a tech villain, so don't shy away from using her classics.

>>90178386
First of all, that was a two-parter, you fucking retard. Second, she made a few "jokes" in the vain of "Why do we have to stop her again?" that made it look like she was fighting her out of obligation, not that she actually cares about people. Goddamn, you casuals can't eve. Get the stiff you do know right. Useless motherfuckers all of you.

>>90178480

That's actually a pretty good idea.

>>90178467
Azz's run, which to be honest got destroyed by the Finches anyway so meh. It reads good as a self-contained, or as an Elseworld anyway. The real problem is Rucka has just been "ok" so far.

>>90178467
Rucka's essentially just rebuilding Wonder Woman to where she was last time he wrote her, bringing back some of his cast. After what the Finches pulled it's not a half bad idea, though personally I'm disliking the run just because it's jumping from story to story. It will probably read better in trade form, but as it stands I don't particularly enjoy the way it's being told.

>>90178480
Hell have Dr Fate team up with her from time to time, certainly better than having him on Blue Beetle for christ sake where they cant decide if the scarab is tech or dark magic

>>90178480
Okay, no. What is with this bullshit I see all the damn time where these idiots want Diana to be DC's Dr. Strange equivalent? What purpose does that serve aside from making more garbage crossover whoreshit more likely?

And further, I frequently see people bitching that she doesnt get shoehorned into other people's books as much as the other Trinity members. Yeah, what a tragedy she isn't being overexposed to death and forced down your throat every five minutes. Idiots.

>>90176766
The Amazons were created by the gods specifically to be agents of a philosophy of peace and pacifism, not rape and violence.

They train in martial arts for the same reason Shaolin Monks do.

>>90178623
Still waiting for you to actually pitch an idea on where writers should take WW instead of your not muh shitfit

>>90178374
That's properly called an ecclesiocracy.

>>90178366
Clark and Bruce have the same problem, being pigeonholed as the Boy Scout and the Loner, respectively. I think part of the problem is the constant forcing of the maternal aspect on Diana.

>>90175669
Only Azzarello babbies care out the previous stuff being retconned. Rucka is doing what has to be done.

Azz's stuff would've been fine as an Elseworlds but it doesn't work as canon. It changes too much.

>>90178695
Well you're gonna be waiting for a long ass time, because I'm not a writer, and I'm not so arrogant as to assume any of my ideas are any good.

But but by that same token, shit ideas are rather obvious to spot, and having Diana be the face of DC's magic shit is just plain stupid and pointless.

>>90176443
Even a New God wants dat ass

>>90178695
Not that guy, but it clashes with the type of magic and mysticism that Diana actually deals with. Her deal is more on the Hellboy side of things.

>>90176573
That's basically what Rebirth is doing linewide though. Bringing the characters back to what they should be.

In some cases it's easy because no one straight up gives a shit if you just hand-wave a bunch of the New-52 away. In some cases they can be brought back while maintaining all the New-52 stuff......and in other cases the only way is to clean house. Why do you think they literally killed Superbro? They couldn't kill Wondy as well so Rucka has to meticulously fix Azz's mess before he can move onto doing his own stuff.

In 5 years no one will give a shit about Azz's run. When people ask what to read if they want to get into Wonder Woman Rucka's Year One will be what they recommend.

>>90178905
>Her deal is more on the Hellboy side of things.
>"Wondy should be fightan monsters all the time!"
I know you didn't say that directly, but experience has taught me that you're probably one of those types. In which case, consider suicide.

>>90178623
> Yeah, what a tragedy she isn't being overexposed to death and forced down your throat every five minutes
And yet your asshurt about Azz's run even though it was exactly that. Let me guess that wasn't muh Wondy right? Fucking shit eater.

>>90178836
>I'm not so arrogant as to assume any of my ideas are any good.
Wish you'd realize the same is true of every post you made ITT.

>>90178623
>So far the best thing about Rucka's Rebirth has been Doctor Cyber who's a tech villain, so don't shy away from using her classics.
Hey retard did you miss this bit? Looks you're the one who has trouble reading dumb fuck.

>>90175669
I really enjoyed the Azz run. Of of all things to drop with Rebirth, sad that was one of them.

>>90176234
No one says that.

>>90176234
No one says that. Most people don't care enough about Diana to say retarded shit like they do for Supes, Bats and the rest.

>>90179377
Doesn't matter that it was self-contained, the Azzarello run was still crap.

>>90179419
Irrelevant. The main point was that there are idiots who want Diana to be more heavily involved with magic shit, which is stupid.

>>90179678
>to be more heavily involved with magic shit, which is stupid.
She's already heavily involved with magic shit you retard. Even in the Perez and Rucka runs.

>>90179063
>Hellboy's just monster punching

>>90179828
This guy is a complete retard.

>>90179775
Yeah, and whenever that happened, it suddenly got really fucking stupid.

>>90178976
>mess

That's an entirely subjective label and you know it.

>>90179896
>Wonder Woman's literal origin involves magic turning clay into a living being via fucking gods merging a human soul with it and granting her powers
Your getting angry over Diana being involved with magic makes no fucking sense at all. What do you even fucking want Diana to do? Work at a fast food joint again?

>>90179973
Maybe do her space villains for a year or so.

>>90179973
At least Taco Wiz was funny and didn't involve any "me Amazon me kill men!" bullshit. I'd absolutely be okay with her working fast food again if it means we can forever avoid all the dumb shit that's been holding her down. Writers simply cannot handle the apparently insurmountable dichotomy of someone who fights for the sake of piece, because such a concept is completely alien to people who write about superheroes for a living.

Have her go back to Taco Wiz, open up another boutique, whatever. Just have her never pick up a sword ever again, because that's when everyone goes full retard and goes "Derp, she a Amazon, so she a jerk, I guess!".

>>90179916
It's a completely objective label to use in reference to some of the departures to her traditional mythos and you know it.

>>90180967
You mean like WW being friends with Cheetah, Doctor Poison being the leader of a goon squad, Doctor Cyber being a disembodied intelligence, Etta Candy being a spy, and Veronica Cale existing?

>>90178976
>Wonder Woman Rucka's Year One will be what they recommend
Why would they recommend such a shitty story? To think this story was the reason people were decrying Morrison's Earth One.

>>90180967
>It's a completely objective label to use in reference to some of the departures to her traditional mythos
In short, not muh.

>>90181210
Rucka's Year One isn't the same as Earth One, and people were decrying Morrison's Earth One because of how Rucka was treated at the time.

Also because Morrison's Earth One was a fairly boilerplate WW origin retelling.

>>90175669
Frankly, given the Finches' "Don't Want To Say Feminist" followup, salting the Earth was the only way to go...

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>>90178976
I actually think Azz's run is going to age pretty well, precisely because it's so different. It's not bogged down by the morass of Wonder Woman's endless reboots, because it doesn't try to connect to anything that came before it.

It's also stylish, pretty to look at, and has ideas that make for cool sequences. I think it will endure.

>>90176573
I hate Veronica Cale. Rucka's shitty OC villain needs to fuck off.

>>90178480
Cucka's Doctor Cyber might as well be a totally different character.

Why is Etta Candy just a friendly Amanda Waller now?
I don't get that at all.

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>>90183425
Best Etta

This thread is exactly what happened with Azz run when it started. Doesnt feel nice when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?

>>90176292
Rape-mazons and Diana isn not clay.- I don't remember anything else that could be taken as "bad"

>>90177007
She's Amazon Jesus because she represents all the best aspects of the Amazon culture.

She's the Amazon Paragon, and through her example the Amazons were starting to accept the men and leaving behind their "evil" old ways.

Diana was redeeming her own whole culture

>>90176573
>On that note, it also feels like he took some kind of deep offense at the changes Azz made in his run, hence why he's retconned them so ruthlessly.

The thing I hated was, right after he was announced, he made this really passive aggressive tumblr post and went on a rant about the new cover saying "Notice Diana smiling. Because she does that" like, motherfucker, Diana smiled in 3/4 of Chang covers what the hell are you even on about?

The worst you can say about his current run is that it's boring and he persists on making two arcs go along simoultaneously slowing down things even more. As far as Azzarello's goes, his run was already muredered, buried and desacrated by page 1 panel 1 of the Finches' first arc, so we should really get over it.

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>>90183425
The New52 originally turned Etta Candy into a skinny black woman that helped Steve Trevor during the first JLA run. When that ended Rucka made her fat but kept her being black because I assume he wanted to keep some elements from the New52.

Azzarello's run felt like a fanfiction of Greek Mythology far more than a WW comic. For as much as I read it WW didn't even seem to be the main character in it.

For what it's worth I do feel that, between Legend of Wonder Woman, Earth One and Rucka's run, we're sort of slowly coming to terms of what a consistent Wonder Woman is supposed to be. Which makes me all the more pissed off that LoWW vol 2 got canceled.

>>90183702
Turning people like Amanda Waller and Etta Candy skinny was one of new52's greatest sins.

>>90178850
like father, like son.

>>90183484
I agree, Legend of Wonder Woman is probably the best WW book- it would be even better than Azz's, were it less decompressed.

>>90183265
>>90181200
>>90177312
>>90176928

IMHO Veronica Cale and Cheetah need to be combined into one character.

Named Cheetah.

>>90176489

Agreed.

>>90176540

WW could have done without daddy issues. Before she was blessed with her gifts, she was a miracle, now she is just another bastard of Zeus'.

She didn't need to be a Hercules analogue.

>>90175669
Ruckafags and tumblr were happy about it

I honestly don't care if it was retconned because after Azz left Meredith Finch proceeded to shit on it and anything WW outside Azz and Chiang's comic was awful.

DC likes to do self contained Elseworld types of stories so if they wanted maybe they could have Azzarello continue were he left off and just do GNs of his Wonder Woman from time to time.

I mean his run sold well and it got an omnibus so the possibility is still there.

>>90177046
Because it doesn't really work, Diana is not that same Diana anymore, she's not at the embassy and her supporting cast is not the same. Also the whole stuff with Cale and Rucka's pet character Sasha Bordeaux is so fucking boring, almost a whole fucking issue of them talking with Cheetah... Ughhh.

Wonder Woman also doesn't need a female Lex Luthor, I really never cared about Cale that much.

His Ares is pretty generic compared to Azzarello's and you know what? Say what you will will about how Azz did villains and Wonder Woman herself but he gave Diana what was probably the most interesting supporting cast she ever had, felt like a nakama type of thing.

Azzarello's Amazons were the worst thing and I am OK with them being purged more than anything and I have to say that I like Rucka's Amazons (although Perez' Amazon were the best).

>>90176234
You say that by posting one of her most notoriously bad runs?

>>90176719
This, outside of storytime threads, because at least in those they have to be actively reading the comic instead of just pretending they have.

>>90177131
Themyscira is usually portrayed as a perfect utopian society and the Amazons in the WW mythos are usually portrayed as being almost perfect and holier than thou, it's man's world that's wrong.

But honestly a society of all-women warriors who are isolationists and look down on men would have no problem killing them.

And it's not like all Amazons were baby killers, we even saw some Amazons crying and trying to hide their sons.

>>90177270
I also like how in the end Diana brought back the Manazons to Themyscira and that there was an opportunity to explore both the men and women coexisting but then Finch fucked that up too.

>>90177427
We already got to see Dionysus so I guess Rucka might be keeping some of the gods, hopefully he builds up Strife as well and doesn't forget Milan.

>>90184603
>WW could have done without daddy issues.
She had 0 daddy issues in Azz run. The angst came from finally realizing she was her mother's flesh and blood instead of just a statue.

Not even Marston would make Diana into Amazon Jesus as Rucka is doing. All this bs about love from a dumb indulged child princess is eye rolling. Marston Amazons did exactly as Azzarello's. Don't even begin to pretend they did not take men against their will. Azzarello had a coherent plot. Good cast. Tons of potential. Diana was in charge of her destiny. This mess in Rebirth is bs. She is doing fucking word association with a snake in her arm in a psych hospital in a padded cell while doing nothing to drive her on narrative. Rucka knowledge of modern psychiatry = unhealthy . cliches. The Rucka Amazons are so boring. Now they are all nice and they happy ergo they screw each other. Diana screwed around a lot too and this equates she loves everyone. If this is feminism...keep it. eye roll.

>>90183976
So basically a retread of Sebastian Ballesteros except with a chick?

>>90184831
Diana having a Lex Luthor type character is a fine idea, it's just that Veronica Cale has nothing going for her to hook readers. Lex has a fairly unique design as far as comic book people go, a fully fleshed and dynamic personality, and very clear goals and reasons behind what he's doing. Veronica Cale has none of that. It took them thirteen years to give her an actual reason to hate Wonder Woman and it's not a very good one.

>it's a " 'I'm the only Wonder Woman fan on /co/' guy being spastic in a thread" episode

>>90184940
This is how you detect how people didn't even read it

"hurr durr daddy issues" was the kneejerk reaction when the zeus thing was revealed, but it never happened

>>90183976
You're actually right.
But instead of Veronica Cale she should just be Priscilla Rich.

Fuck Veronica Cale.

>>90186121
Eh, that could work, although I kind of liked that story where she had gone straight and Barbara Ann killed her back in pre-Flashpoint. They could have brought back Von Gunther instead of Cale, though, too.

But fuck Veronica Cale.

>>90185834
No, just stop making Cheetah job and let her be Wonder Woman's scheming nemesis.

>Barbara is forced to be Cheetah again by Veronica's orders
>Dr. Cyber is some retarded GLaDOS who works for Veronica
>Dr. Poison is now an organization led by a militar woman who is supposedly Princess Maru's descendant, and they work for Veronica
>Phobos and Deimos were turned into Veronica's dogs, presumably with the assist of Circe, who might as well just be another Veronica's goon
>Dr. Psycho still hasn't appeared but he will certainly be another Veronica's goon like the last time

I'd rather not have WW villains than have Rucka's Veronica Inc

>>90186325
I guess the only bright spot to all this is that when Cucka quits a new writer will undo everything he did.

>>90186364
Doctor Cyber can stay, I have no idea what he was doing with Barbara as one of the things about her is that despite her rocky relationship with her god she enjoys being Cheetah so you could probably get away with just ignoring Rucka's additions, you could probably get a good story about having a more traditional Doctor Poison fighting against POISON, and who knows, someone might actually do something interesting with Veronica Cale.

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>>90186325
>Veronica Inc

A blonde mastermind pulling WW's villains into one group is an old story idea.

Veronica Cale is a "Lex Luthor" arch-nemesis for Wonder Woman because nobody wants to use the Baroness Paula Von Gunther because of her nazi baggage.

>>90186808
Unfortunately Rucka's got it so top-down that the individual members come off as underlings rather than equals.

And I don't see why comic writers of all people are shying away from Nazi villains.

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>>90186661
I want my Doctor Cyber to be a burn victim with a robot face not a gay hologram thing. But yeah, Rucka's Cheetah just blows my mind. Cheetah was one of the few female major villains who didn't become just an antihero like Harley or Ivy, and now he has her as some woe-is-me "woobie" werewolf.

>>90175669
It really is to be expected.

Like Batman and Superman, being part of the Trinity meant that any change to her origin would eventually be rebooted back to normal.
So when Azz run revealed she was Zeus's child and the clay was a cover-up, I knew it was just a matter of when.

But being written out of canon doesn't stop a WW run from being enjoyable.

>>90177149
>Perfect characters aren't interesting.
It worked for Superman. Let's make him a rapist, see how his fans like it.

>>90183818
It's the dumbass husband's fault, he couldn't keep his fucking mouth shut.

>>90187488
I think "ghost in the machine" is a fine place for her, you can do robot bodies or even bodyswapping to make her a physical threat. Hell, if you want the robot face just have her sleeve into cyborg clones. The worst part about Cheetah is that Giganta had the antihero/friendly enemy characterization since IC and it fucking worked for her. Not only has he robbed another of villain of what little character direction she had, his werewolf analogue would fit more organically with Priscilla Rich or Deborah Domaine.

Better question, why is Rucka's current run so fucking boring?

>>90187900
boring is better than insulting

>>90187900
Rucka is actually pretty boring outside of political intrigue and street level stuff. He's got his strengths and WW just isn't one of them.

>>90187974
I'd say they're equal. So far Rucka's current run feels a lot like Eric Luke's run and no cares about Eric Luke's run.

>>90187547
He's not perfect though. Hell he's less autistic about no killing then Bruce is.

>>90187900
Hopping between different stories issue-to-issue is a surefire way to slow the plot down to a crawl. Might read better in trade, but it doesn't help much right now.

>>90176719
Autism: the post, wonder woman edition

>>90187900
More important question: has Rucka's run continued Wonder Womans war on Necks?

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>>90187488

>>90177547
It was more entertaining that's for sure, shit happened at least.

>>90177665
Go sperg on your tumblr, kek you're pathetic.

Oh, I see Cranky is here today.

Hi Cranky!

How is the Perez run? Been considering buy the omni.

>>90177547
But Azzarello's run had much deeper themes involving nature and nurture

>>90191324
Someone should make a villain called Hydra-Man so Wondy never has to hunt for a neck.

>>90191949
The previous version was Asia iirc. Why aren't feminists and leftists decrying the white-washing?

>>90196947
This one is latina :^)

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I feel like Wondy got the short end of the stick with Rebirth the way its two runs shipping as the same title. Makes everything feel slow as hell and its hard to be invested.