Marvel Comics Blame Retailer Woes On Returnable $2.99 DC Comics

>>90104586
>>I am told that this caused considering eyeball rolling amongst retailers. One very prominent retailer told me,
>>"Most retailers in the room groaned audibly at the less than subtle jab at DC
GOOD
Nobody's buying your shit excuses anymore. We're onto you, assholes.

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>>90104586
>And Marvel’s overprint was there to help retailers have enough comics in stock to get them through this difficult time.

Are they fucking serious?

No, they do not have a point

Marvel is never right

>>90104586

Wait, that quote being used in this context is weird to me

Is the guy he is quoting saying that most people believe DC is the problem, or is he saying that most people groaned because Gabriel was talking shit about DC and that they (the retailers) are getting tired of Marvel?

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>implying DC doesn't sell more than they get returned

Someone wanna bring up the screencaps from le Irish comic shop owner?

>>90104675
The title is dumb lol. Liefeld posted it yesterday without reading the story it's so bad (and because he's been shilling for Marvel lately).

The story pretty much says they don't have a point besides one jackass that can't sell batman or do math.

>>90104675
The second.

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>>90104586
>Marvel’s overprint was there to help retailers have enough comics in stock to get them through this difficult time
Why doesn't Marvel drop the comics and publish joke books?

>>90104709
Liefeld is shilling to Marvel to see if he can get another book now that Thunderbolts was cancelled.

>>90104742
He could always draw a new T'bolts one; who would notice the difference at this point?

So what Marvel is saying is that because DC is meeting middle-ground with retailers, that's a bad thing for the comics industry and for Marvel. Is that what I'm getting here?

>>90104586
Death To Marvel

>>90104586
>The most successful company with the most market share and brand recognition is salty that its competitors are edging in on its turf with a strategy with it's sticking donkey turd up its nose
What the fuck does Marvel want, a fucking monopoly? What about a little accountability?

At this point I almost want Marvel to keep blaming DC, if only it'll help sink Marvel into the ground further

>>90104636
>When we flood the market with shit, we're "helping"
Fits right in with Marvel's politics honestly. The simultaneous, "You're an asshole for doing this," and "I can do it because YOU got away with it."

>>90104586
>Marvel’s overprint was there to help retailers have enough comics in stock to get them through this difficult time.

I'm sure all those Mosaic and Champions copies flew off the shelves.

>>90104996
>What the fuck does Marvel want, a fucking monopoly?
Yes.
>What about a little accountability?
This is a Disney company, are you serious?

>>90104586
Someone please tell me how this pitiful company manged to survive all these years?

>>90105103
X-MEN

>>90105103
Coasting off the goodwill of 20th century Marvel. I stopped following seriously around Disassembled/House of M and won't take them seriously again until Bendis and Amanat are gone

>>90105103
x-men (which they killed because of movie), spiderman (which they killed because spiteful old man about his divorce is spiteful) and movies (which the hype from them will probably start to fade away after infinity war)

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>>90104817
Basically.

DC is terrible because they're actively looking out for the retailers. The fact that DC was holding onto the cash that retailers would receive back from any stock they couldn't sell prevented them from spending it on the super-high demand Marvel comics. True Believers everywhere would have been deprived of their amazing Marvel comics if they didn't step in and generously donate additional comics (10% free in January!).

DC truly is a shit company.

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>>90104586
You didn't post the lone pro-Marvel retort, OP:

>But this may be one of self-selecting group of retailers who wanted to contact me. Other people’s mileage may vary.

>Such as Dennis Barger, of Quickstop Comics/Wonderworld Comics in Detroit

>Batman #48 cost $2, cover $3.99 order twenty sold 16 $40 cost $66 collected $26 profit Batman#16 cost $1.50, cover $2.99 order twenty sold 16 $30 cost $48 collected $12 profit

>Ok twice monthly!!! $24 profit, still $2 less monthly profit on DCs best selling book…to pay employees, pay rent, feed family, try new Indy books that might sell better. But how the hell is double monthly still equally the same lower market share D.C. has been showing???

>Less titles, same low sales numbers and twice monthly. I think if you divide D.C.’s monthly market share in half it shows the real answer. Selling the same or lower overall, twice a month at a lower price.

>Selling the same or lower overall, twice a month at a lower price.

>Personally I think many of the pro-DC retailers are trying to self-assure themselves that backing the the latest desperate attempt was “fruitful” but the numbers don’t lie, you can’t self-affirm “alternate truths” you tell yourself.

>David does have a point that D.C.’s bait of 2.99 to lure back fans left money on the table for retailers.

>>90106522
Why are you still a payed shill?

Marvel is the most garbage company in the history. It's only about marketing and greed, nothing else. They want a monopoly, because is what their rodent's company boss commands. DC actually cares for the readership, while trying to make affordable to the people that may not have money to have them, instead of having 4.99 $ price for each book. DC fights for the comic book readers, even those that don't have money, Marvel is only for the profit. If you want every book costing 4.99 $, then or you are an idiot, or you have a lot of dollars in your pocket to spend.

>>90106522
Because they actually care about retailers, those heartless scum.

>>90106522
You can't help but be shit when you go up against the greatest company on Earth.

>>90106689
>I Can't Infer Sarcasm: The Post

>>90106775
Such a good elitist nazist opinion .

>>90104586
Marvel should just stick to making movies and tv shows these days

>arguing who has damaged the industry more while being the consumer you get collectively fucked by comic book houses, diamond and retailers


Company war fags are the true retards of this board. You guys make furries look good.

>>90106960
Marvel shills and drones with IQ level of a rat, thinking that they are funny and ironic. It suits you, considering your company's ethics.

>>90106888
>Marvel starts losing
>HUURRR DURRR COMPANY WARS FAGGOTS RREEE

>>90107092
Wow, you earned your payment. I hope that it's worthy of your afford.

>>90104996
They're not edging into Marvel, though.

What he's describing is that DC basically defrauded retailers with a phony sale-or-return scam where they got high orders for "free" comics - the retailers keeping the variants they actually want, selling as many comics as they usually would, and not having to deal with the waste orders since they can send them back.

On the face of it, that's great for DC and Marvel - it gives DC an idea of how much they're actually selling to consumers without the clutter caused by retailer incentives (which is a problem for all publishers), and it shouldn't have made a difference to Marvel as retailers were ordering free, returnable comics.

The thing is, sale-or-return is a very well-established model, but you almost never pay up-front, either cover or retailer price - you pay a deposit, which is a fraction of cover price, varies according to order size, and is part-or-whole returnable depending on how many copies you actually sell. Given the low-selling figures of comics generally, probably only part in this case.

It should have been a break for retailers - a few months of low-cost ordering, only paying up for those comics that they couldn't actually prove they sold. Instead it seems they did get conned - whether you agree with Marvel or not, that's not how sale-or-return is supposed to work. No retailer has that kind of money up front, so either DC's deposit prices were too high and they were too sluggish paying back (lawsuits to follow), or they said from the start the payment would be the usual method, but with full refunds for unsold copies, which is the retard way of doing it. There's no benefit to a producer in bankrupting the supply chain unless they've got a serious alternative supply chain to reach the consumer - DC doesn't have that. No publisher has that.

I'm sure Marvel's overshipping (which, oddly, hasn't shown up in January's figures) is causing eye-rolling, but let's not get ahead of ourselves: DC fucked up.

>>90107184
>Marvel blames DC rather than admit mistakes.
>Actual retailers save a giant Marvel shill laugh at him.
>B-but... Marvel's right! Fuck DC!
Gabriel, please. It's always someone else's fault, isn't it?

>>90107184
Okay, who are you really? Brevoort? Spencer? Dennis Barger? An intern?

>>90104758
everyone,at least the characters would look dynamic if rob drew it

>>90107184
Man, are you always the same guy in every thread about Marvel overshipping giving excuses? Are you Gabriel or Spencer? What are you gaining?

Also...

>I'm sure Marvel's overshipping (which, oddly, hasn't shown up in January's figures)
This is WRONG. You're a moron. Look:

Squirrel-Girl sold, according to Diamond, 17,569 units, but made less money than Shade: The Changing Girl, that sold ~13,500 and cost the same. Wich means that ~4,000 units were overshipped. FOUR THOUSAND. You can see examples like that over various books.

So, explain to me, how it hasn't shown up, how DC was the one that fucked up and how overshipping 4,000 units of fucking Squirrel-Girl will help retailers. I'm waiting.

>>90107630
>So, explain to me, how it hasn't shown up, how DC was the one that fucked up and how overshipping 4,000 units of fucking Squirrel-Girl will help retailers. I'm waiting.

He won't, he'll just refuse to answer and then wait for the next thread to peddle his bullshit and then run away when called out. Again.

>>90107630
Could have been more considering the prices of the books and how much worse it did.

>>90107693
I know.

This guy has to be a Marvel intern, the alternative is too sad to be true.

>>90107848
Funny how we throw around the word Marvel intern with impunity and we all believe it because it just might actually be true
After finding out Scientologists post on 4chan to defend Scientology, I guess nowhere is too low to shill

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/21/marvel-hope-beat-dc-sales-wise-instore-rodman-comics-marvel-comicspro-controversy/

>Bleeding Cool ran a report from ComicsPRO, sourced from several retailers, who talked about an address from Marvel SVP David Gabriel regarding poor industry response of late and where the blame lay – and of negative retailer response in the room. We also sourced a response from retailer Dennis Barger who supported Gabriel’s statements.

>>90108124
>Here is another view from Rod Lamberti of Rodman Comics,

>"Wow, I am so glad I did not go to the Comic Pro event. So Marvel, you had a few bad months. And you blame DC. Which I understand. Competition will do that to you. But to blame their return program? That’s just rude."

>"And what the heck example was that with Batman? Bi-weekly Batman means twice the profits per month than if it was just monthly."

>"I can only speak for my store. My small little store that has been around for only 6 years. Starting last year Marvel sales dropped here. And they kept dropping. As I previously stated Now Occupy Avengers, New Hawkeye, Mosaic, Slapstick, Solo, Foolkiller, are given a run by Valiant titles. My diehard Marvel fans are the ones that buy them. Which make no mistake I am glad they do. Valiant has I would say a lot less money than Marvel. I picked up another Valiant customer a few days ago. Currently, I seem unable to pick up any new Marvel customers."

>"How come I still over order? I thought I might have ordered low on Bullseye and Kingpin. Daredevil is on T.V. right? That should help. I was wrong. I was still too high even though it wasn’t that much to start with. After years of Marvel selling at a higher range, I still had the habit of well its Marvel it should sell. I do want people that come in off the street to have the chance to buy any Marvel title. But that thought process has been kicking my butt. I keep wanting the Marvel customers that were buying Marvel to come back. My latest Diamond order is pretty dang small for Marvel. Yet I still keep trying to go over the order trying to guess does it need to be less? Has the Marvel bleed-out stopped?"

>>90108148
>"Marvel if you truly think my store’s money was tied up by DC then you are wrong. I have too many first issues of Foolkiller, Mockingbird 1, Nighthawk’s series, Solo 1, Mighty Captain Marvel 1, and more on hand. Mockingbird, Nighthawk, Solo, and more are in the dollar bin still untouched. Amazing Spider-man even over the last few issues is bleeding readership badly. Marvel actually tied up my money. The overships? Sold that one extra Mosaic that was sent to us. Guardians of the Galaxy, Gamora, and more? Not one of any of the other extra copies were sold. Free Comic Book Day extras here we come. So I was either originally correct on my ordering or had too much to begin with."

>"And when I say Marvel tied up my money that means money was lost. There were no returns. No chance to get any money back."

>"I say this only because I want Marvel to get back their A game. Give us the kick butt comics they were known for. Like the first Uncanny X-Force. When I first opened that was the number one team book from any publisher here. Readership was excited. I enjoyed the book also. I have only been open over 6 years. In that time forgotten titles like Generation Hope have been cancelled. The current “stealth” cancellations do not help. Such as what was done to Red Wolf, Starbrand and Nightmask, and all the others that weren’t even worth enough to the publisher to announce they were cancelling them. It confuses the people that actually were reading the books. No thanks for reading, just as we are too proud to announce we had to cancel a title."

>"Again I want to sell as many comics as possible. I would love to sell hundreds of each Marvel title."

>>90108168
>"One of the many things I have learned over the years is I have limited influence over what sells. Meaning a product has to be viewed as wanted by the consumer. My store is like a movie theater. You want (well most do) a clean business and a staff that is there for you. If a new Star Wars movie is coming out then business is most likely good for a movie theater. If the movie theater takes a gamble and has Yoga Hosers then odds are quite a bit less that business was good."

>"For instance, at times people come in and ask what is the highest selling title currently. The first All Star Batman story arc was the answer not too long ago, now Flash is the current answer. People actually pick up the title because they are selling. No one in the whole time I have been open has come in and asked what is your lowest or lower selling titles. I have had people in the past ask about titles such as Avengers after seeing the Avengers movie either on blue ray or at the movie theater. But they were over whelmed by all the Avenger titles. Avengers, Avengers World, Uncanny Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers want your money, and so on. If there had just been one Avengers title it would have been an easy sale and a chance to get new people into comics. Instead they walked out because they felt overwhelmed by all the choices."

>"Make no mistake I like second string characters. I cheer on the underdog. But the underdog title shouldn’t be one that when I read in Previews it is coming out I, along with my follow retailers, wonder if it will be cancelled by issue 6. Such as Man-Thing."

>>90108193
>"You want a second or third string character to sell, then put some talent on the book that can sell it."

>"I will put it all out there. I did not turn away Marvel fans by not having their product for sale. I will be truthful. If that had been the case I would have had a lot more money on hand. If DC hadn’t had Rebirth, it would have been very painful sales wise."

>"So please don’t be butthurt over DC having returns. What next? DC’s Rebirth was responsible for Marvel buying Heroes World Distribution Co in 1994?"

>"And Marvel I say this with all seriousness. I hope you beat DC sales wise instore again while DC stays or grows in sales. Why? Because that means your making me and hopefully my follow retailers money again."

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>>90107184
>DC basically defrauded retailers
>lawsuits to follow
>DC fucked up
I hope this is Spencer shilling
because if so pic related

>>90105856
Wasn't that guys math completely wrong? Maybe there are other factors to consider if a store is not having a good time if the owner can't do the math right

>>90105856
I need to get this straight and you can screencap this because this seems retard as fuck!
Isn't this really a 2x2,99 vs 1x2,99 with Marvel shit-tier mentality?

He buys 40 Batman issues - 20 from issue A and 20 from issue B - for 1.50$ and a profit of 1,49$ ea

20x1.50 = 30$x2 = 60$ cost
20x2,99 = 59,8x2 = 119,6$ collected

120-60 = 60$ = 50% profit

Lets say he doesn't sell all 40 issues, so far he can return those to DC and get back the money for the order right? I think that changed so he cannot return those anymore is that it?

Because having a profit for the comics he sells while also getting the money for those who don't sell seems pretty good for me.
What is he complaining?

It seems that Marvel is more cancerous than DC!
Don't LCS need to fill X number of orders of Y Book to get the Variant Covers of successful book? Meaning that LCS need to pay shipments orders from books they cannot sell all? Yeck Marvel even gives free comics just to fuck up Diamond numbers

Am I missing something?

>>90108274
That's what numerous people are pointing out, yes.

>>90108274
>Wasn't that guys math completely wrong?

Yes because he claims
>Batman #48 cost $2, cover $3.99 order twenty sold 16 $40 cost $66 collected $26 profit Batman#16 cost $1.50, cover $2.99 order twenty sold 16 $30 cost $48 collected $12 profit

Batman #16 is a $18 profit, not $12.

And then

>Ok twice monthly!!! $24 profit, still $2 less monthly profit on DCs best selling book…

Twice monthly means it's $36, not $24, and that's $10 more monthly profit on Batman, not $2 less.

Hey Marvel! Maybe if you tell Bendis to put more content in a single issue before jacking it up to $6, people wouldn't feel ripped off!

>>90108274
>>90108338
>>90108348
>>90108367
The guy can't do basic math or sell fucking Batman, no wonder he is doing badly.

He is lucky, though. Marvel will give him 30 extra units of Slapstick and Mosaic, this will counterbalance DC fuck ups and save his LCS.

>>90108549
I know you are being sarcastic as fuck but is there a list to what was really overshipped?

Because:

a) giving free copies of high seller seems stupid to do - you are giving free money away
b) giving free copies of shit sellers seems jews doing what they do best and really but really cancerous to LCS

>>90108630
For October, November and December there was chatter between retailers as to what Marvel overshipped them on. Hawkeye, Great Lakes Avengers, Mosaic, etc. There's a list floating around somewhere. For January, Marvel just said fuck it and sent 10% extra on everything.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marel-overships-titles-to-retailers-by-10-in-january/

>>90108542
But they think it was worth the value!

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/35282/icv2-interview-marvels-david-gabriel-part-3

ICV2: The price on Civil War II #1 was high, relative to standard pricing. How are you making those decisions and what are you seeing in terms of price resistance?

David Gabriel: We make a concerted effort to look at the books every month and try to pinpoint books that if we were to increase their page count and give more value and increase the price, is that going to hurt the sales, and is that going to hurt the retailer. We literally do that the week we’re working on the catalogue.

ICV2: Do you feel that example (Civil War II #1) was successful?

Gabriel: I think that one was very successful in terms of sell-through. I know people like to think that’s our plan always now. We do #1s, so we’re going to do them on everything. I think $4.99 is a good price. I think $5.99 was also a result of Brian [Michael Bendis] had a larger story to tell that he wanted to get out in one issue. There’s a lot of that. Editors will come in say so-in-so wants to make an issue triple-sized one month because his story is so big. And we say, that’s not a good idea, because when you look at the curve of sales, then we won’t do it. But if there’s something that we can get behind and market and promote, it does very well. For whatever reason, Deadpool at $9.99 sells phenomenally well. And the editor groans when we say we should do another one in a couple of months, because they do very well. They almost double in sales from the regular $3.99 issue.

fuck off marvel I'll drop Nova the only title Im getting from you guys to pay for the DC shift to 3.99 on batman beyond, red hood and super sons

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>>90104586
THEY
STOPPED
BEING
RETURNABLE
AT
ISSUE
SIX

fucking disgusting. God forbid a comic shop makes big orders without fear of having huge back stock nobody wants to fucking buy.

my LCS hardly makes money from comics. its MTG and Board Games with 40k and X-wing War Games in distant 3rd.

and Diamond treats them like shit. Sometimes they don't even have some of the week's books that they ordered.

Another retailer weighs in:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/21/fewer-books-better-books-cheaper-books-florida-retailer-talks-marvel-comics/

At his store he compared sales of comics that were still around in Jan 2016 to their Jan 2017 counterparts.

>>90107184
>ignoring the two retailers today alone that have already written to BC talking about how great DC's returnability was

>I'm sure Marvel's overshipping (which, oddly, hasn't shown up in January's figures)
You fucking wot? It absolutely did.
https://twitter.com/comichron/status/833768864840310784

You may as well just get a fucking trip at this point. Your really desperate attempts to paint Rebirth as a failure are as regular as clockwork. Which Marvel guy are you? My money would be on Spencer or Liefeld.

>>90111429
He's the one with copypastas about why DC always flops, even if it makes a trillion every hour..

Making books returnable is a sign of confidence in your product, Marvel. If you were so convinced people want to read books like Mockingbird and Hellcat you'd put your money where your mouth is instead of keeping them alive past their expiration dates with blatant shenannigans.

>>90109433
>reading Batman Beyond comics
so you admit you have no taste

>>90104586
Marvel will always fuck LCS even if it kills the industry, they just don't care.
They will make money for relaunching #1s every 4 months with a Event every 3 months.

Just look at May solicitations: 5/6 Main-Event Books + 4 or 5 #1s
Hope DC has a solid solicitation would love to see a big confrontation but still Marvel would give copies for free anyway to fuck Diamond numbers.

>>90111747
>Event every 3 months
They'll never wait that long between events.

>>90111806
Well they had almost 1 year without a event but goddamn it! From CWII with more than 25 tie-ins straight to MU and straight to Secret Empire.

At least for now SE seems to have less tie-ins with also minimal "Prelude" issues but Marvel also wants me to spend 55$ just to follow the main-story of the event in the first month...

>>90112051
>straight to MU and straight to Secret Empire
You're forgetting IvX and The Clone Conspiracy.

They have three events currently.

>>90112136
Shit you right

Why does Marvel bother to make comics or anything other than movies again?

>>90104742
Honestly, I'd love a new series where Liefeld is given one hundred percent freedom to go crazy. He'd consider it completely serious and completely straight, but it would be a fantastic parody of comics' iron age to normal people.

>>90112393
Cause the movie division is separate from the comics division

>>90112782
But the former needs the latter to draw inspiration from.

>>90104709
How terrible of a comic shop do you have to be to be bad at selling Batman? Good lord

>>90105103
At this point the movies are the only things keeping them alive, once capeshit falls out of favour with the general public (as it will, no movie trend lasts forever) Marvel is done.

>>90112887
Considering both Civil War and Age of Ultron were completely unlike their comic counterparts other than the title, that's not really true.

>>90114276
They used the titles, which is already something. Also, >>90113370

>>90113217
Seriously. Even if it is King's batman (which I have enjoyed more than some here), you have to be doing something wrong to not be selling out of it

>>90104709
>The title is dumb lol. Liefeld posted it yesterday without reading the story it's so bad (and because he's been shilling for Marvel lately).
I had to check his twitter to see if this was true. It's hilarious that it is. It's kind of sad that he was pretty middle-ground about everyone until Deadpool was actually a success. Now he's going to bat for Marvel and trying to shit on DC at every opportunity now that casuals are giving him credit for making an amazing character that he actually need other people to make good.

They have kicked DC's ass in sales for a while

>>90114579
Heh, sure.

>>90112887
They have 60 years of stories to draw inspiration from

>>90114579
sales and everything else

>>90114615
You must be new. Marvel kicked DC's ass in sales before rebirth. http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-02.html 1 year ago Marvel had 42% of the market share and 40% of the dollar share. DC couldn't crack 30% in either. Fuck, even last month marvel still holds 37% of the dollar share.

People are finally wising up to Marvel's bullshit but they doing pretty ok still financially.

>>90114787
>and everything else
eh. I have been reading since a few months before the new 52 started and imo it has fluctuated. I have made a decision to not buy from either DC or Marvel for a little bit a couple times now

>>90104586
The guy who runs my LCS actually has a response to that.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/21/fewer-books-better-books-cheaper-books-florida-retailer-talks-marvel-comics/

Way too long to post but it's a pretty thorough BTFOing of Marvel. Here's some excerpts though.

>To give you a point of reference for my store, as much as I like DC, Image has my top 3 bestsellers, which all sell 100 copies per month in my store (when they aren’t taking a break). Saga, Walking Dead and then Paper Girls are our three bestsellers, and the same goes for TPBs on those titles as well. We sold over 100 copies of Saga Volume 1 in our store last year and close to 500 total copies of Saga Volume 1 since it came out 4 years ago. In what’s probably not a coincidence, all three of these titles and most of our other bestsellers are also $2.99. We’ve never seen price resistance like we’re seeing right now and people refuse to try a new comic or event if it’s $4.99 or $5.99 for the first issue and I can’t blame them. I’ve even got a handful of customers that won’t even touch $3.99 books! The $9.99 issues of Deadpool have helped bring Deadpool to a six year sales low, after doing so incredibly well with last year’s Deadpool movie being the first comic movie in a while to really bring in a whole new crowd. Imagine that, people don’t want to pay $9.99 for a comic, even if it does have 100 pages.

>>90116094
>The bad news is that EVERY single Marvel title is down from a year ago in my store. Several customers dropped Marvel entirely as they put more faith (and money) into Rebirth, and others just stopped collecting comics as the Marvel Universe that’s around now isn’t aimed at them, but seems to be aimed at the Tumblr or Twitter crowd that never comes into any store that I’m aware of. I’m all for diversity, but not every replacement or legacy character can be as well received (or as well written) as Ms Marvel, Jane Foster or Squirrel Girl. I would really like to sell more Marvel Comics, as comics is the most important and biggest part of our sales, but right now, between overpriced comics at $4.99, $5.99 or even $9.99, Marvel has never been more out of touch with what fans and retailers would like to see from them.

>My key bit of advice to Marvel is this: “Fewer books, better books, cheaper books!” When Marvel was publishing 35 titles in the early 2000’s as they were coming out of their 1990’s coma, more than half of them were excellent. Alias, Supreme Power, JMS’ Amazing, so many great books! I’d rather sell a lot of 30 or 40 great books than a few each of a bunch of crappy ones that no one wants to read. When you’ve lost your core audience and haven’t done anything to bring in a new audience to actually purchase these books, there won’t be a comic industry for you to exploit in ten years at this rate. Marvel, please fix it before it gets any worse and think about the long term consequences of your actions before reaching for every possible short term dollar you can with all the ridiculous variants, events and gimmicks.

>>90108168
>Give us the kick butt comics they were known for. Like the first Uncanny X-Force

Based Remender

>The current “stealth” cancellations do not help

This was something I was thinking about while looking at the Marvel solicits thread, why do Marvel never announce a series cancellation? Remember when Omega Men was originally cancelled with #7 and the huge fan uproar saved the book? If Marvel were upfront about cancellations the same might be done for some their better, lower selling books like Foolkiller.

>>90104737
Well, most of their books are a joke right now, so

>>90117673
Aren't most of the "cancellations" just miniseries that were billed as ongoing since no one buys miniseries according to Marvel?

>>90117776

I always find that idea kinda funny because i buy Migolaverse minis all the damn time when theyre coming out. A story arc is a story arc.... i guess people want to get invested in some sort of fandom instead of just reading a story and enjoying it.

>>90117887
To be fair, there's a pretty big difference between a story arc part of a huge universe with established characters that feeds into other existing stories and will be built upon later in the next arc compared to a true, self contained miniseries, like 5 issues of literal who Foolkiller who hasn't had a series in years and won't have another for even more years.

A big reason reason people like capes is the interconnectedness after all.

>>90105103
Because Marvel isn't and has never been a comic company. They make their money through licensing their characters for toys and children's underwear. When Marvel and Toybiz merged, Perlmutter (the Toybiz CEO) took over, because the toy department was the most important.

They have survived because Marvel isn't above scummy business practices and corporate sabotage. Back in the 70s Marvel leaked that they were increasing page counts and keeping prices low to force DC to slash their line down and drop prices, which devastated the industry. Jim Shooter would harass DC employees and threaten that Marvel would buy DC and if they didn't do what he said they'd never work again. Marvel pumped out variant covers to pander to speculators and led to the Crash, then sold off their movie licences to survive. Marvel gave us Rob Liefeld. Marvel rewarded comic book stores if they destroyed DC event books.

The thing about Marvel is that they have no talent and produce nothing good, but make money through branding, so they can never fail. They intentionally cause damage to the industry so that they can kill their competition and be the ones left to pick up the pieces. As a company they are inarguably pure evil.

>>90104996
I saw an ABC sitcom tonight where two characters talked about how bad BvS was while standing in front of the posters for Zootopia, Jungle Book, Alice 2, and Finding Dory.

Tell me if you think Disney doesn't want a monopoly.

>>90112136
Monsters Unleashed as well.

>>90117776
I dont get this. Sometimes I'm glad to find out my commitment to a titles is only 6 issues. Like im going to pick up the 12 issue Bane run because I know its going to be a contained story, I'm not going to end up with 36 issues of Bane to store.

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>>90104586
>And Marvel’s overprint was there to help retailers have enough comics in stock to get them through this difficult time.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>90114787
>and everything else

eh

>>90118569
>Back in the 70s Marvel leaked that they were increasing page counts and keeping prices low to force DC to slash their line down and drop prices, which devastated the industry.

This is why war comics, romance comics and even the Archie clones all died off leaving us with 99.9% capeshit and 0.1% horror.

>>90116094
>Imagine that, people don’t want to pay $9.99 for a comic, even if it does have 100 pages.

What goes around fucking comes around, Marvel.

>>90117673
It's almost certainly a case where Marvel has this idea that if they say "FINAL ISSUE" or something and thus announce it's been cancelled that's seen as a weakness. Better to just keep it out of a solicitation and let people find out (or not) on their own. It's dumb and makes no sense but that's probably the logic. Same with cancelled TV shows really where nowadays it doesn't seem like they're "cancelled", you just stop seeing them on future schedules or not mentioned at an upfront and it's left to you to put 2 and 2 together.

>>90117887
It's well known that miniseries sell less than an ongoing unless it's an event because a miniseries is seen as something unimportant. So for Marvel it's better to just have them as stealth minis that can (if interest is there) be extended. Prowler, for example, should've just been titled Clone Conspiracy: Prowler. Its entire existence was tying into that story and with the story done, so to is the book sales be damned.

Again, Marvel believes that perception trumps reality no matter how illogical. To give an example from another medium, after Wrestlemania 30 the numbers have been basically dropped. The numbers for the last three are not displayed on the logo nor are they referred to with the number, it's simply called Wrestlemania even if it's officially, say, Wrestlemania 33. The reasoning is that Vince feels that having a number that high makes Wrestelmania look old and thus fans won't give a shit about something that old.

Logic like that is probably the same kind of logic running Marvel.

>>90108216
Finally someone speaking sense

>>90121179
>It's almost certainly a case where Marvel has this idea that if they say "FINAL ISSUE" or something and thus announce it's been cancelled that's seen as a weakness.

I think it's because of solicitations. If you know that a comic's going to be canceled two months ahead, you may have to time to slash orders on the final two issues because customers might be aware it's getting canceled and drop the book.

>>90105856
>that last guy.

Hey he's the guy from my local comic shop. Neat.

>>90120920
>Right
>Strong Independent Woman
>Left
>Misogynist Corporate Sexism

Guess what I'm buying for my Son(Daughter)?

>>90125218
Do you mean your wife's son?

what is going on

>>90118646
>I saw an ABC sitcom tonight where two characters talked about how bad BvS was while standing in front of the posters for Zootopia, Jungle Book, Alice 2, and Finding Dory.

This can't be real.

>>90118646
No fucking way. Name of the show?

>>90124794
It's really kind of neat seeing my local guy heavily quoted/having an article on BC too >>90116094

It's a great store, he's a great guy and you can read that and tell why he's doing well because he knows what the fuck he's doing.

>>90125218
don't you mean son (female)?

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>>90127301
>>90125256

American Housewife Episode #15, at 05:43. I downloaded it to confirm from: https://kickass.cd/american-housewife-s01e15-hdtv-x264-sva-tt17167292.html

I was flipping channels and was floored. This is the most brazen shilling I have ever seen.

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>>90105364
DC is literally worse than Hitler. In fact I'm going to go give them a piece of my mind later at the FLCS.

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>And Marvel’s overprint was there to help retailers have enough comics in stock to get them through this difficult time.

What the FUCK are they playing at?!

>>90127701
Oh shit kickass is back?

>>90104586
The American comic market is hilariously broken.

>>90114579
>sell Star Wars titles, the most famous franchise in the world
>constant events
>constant relaunches
>variant fuckery totally skewing the data
>overshipping totally skewing the data
>manage to beat DC by a 5% in the dollar share when your comics are 30 to 50% more expensive
>get your shit pushed up in television, videogames and merchadising

Sure buddy, Marvel is not a shell of a company, totally not

>>90127701
Disney's got a lot of balls to talk shit about a movie with a poster for Alice Through the Looking Glass in the background

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>>90118646
At least WB is a bit more subtle with their shilling.

>>90118646

Disney is a legit evil company, prove me wrong

>>90104737
Calvin's mom is a total fox and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.

>>90128145
I won't and I can't.

>>90128115
Legends of Tomorrow had an entire episode shilling Star Wars and Indiana Jones (Disney properties,) and it's a DC show.

However, it's also run by Marc Guggenheim, who writes for Marvel. Coincidence?

>>90127977
Dude it was back up within a week

>>90128145
Who cares! Soon we will rule the world as well as all media and there's NOTHING you can do about it

>>90104586
At this point the only thing that will save Marvel is to replace absolutely everyone in the company.

>>90128115
>>90128196
It should be noted that Bazooper also has featured some plot-relevant Marvel merch like Hulk hands, has had a Stan Lee cameo and has had the characters debate the Whor comic.
And yeah plenty of Star Wars.

>>90128145
Most large companies basically behave like sociopaths, although Disnesy is pretty cocky about it.

>>90128208
I thought most of those were honey pots

>>90128337
When is the last time you've heard of anybody getting caught in a honeypot? It would be way too much fucking work for the feds and little to no benefit to them to start up their own piracy website just to trick people into downloading shit. Other than the RIAA, anti-piracy groups focus on site runners, not downloaders.

>>90128396
>>90128337

US courts have ruled that downloading copyrighted material can't be prosecuted as copyright infringement anymore than buying a book that's been reproduced illegally is a copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement falls on the person creating the reproduction. They can get you for seeding, but not for leeching.

Even still, the feds don't give a shit about going after you. Any litigation-threatening butthurt emails you might have gotten or heard about? Yeah that's coming from the ISP.

>>90130303
>Captain America is the only ongoing title mentioned as having a hand in killing sales
>Nick Spencer blames DC when it's actually his fault
this is hilarious

>>90130398
Agreed

>>90130303
I especially feel the last argument.
Now I realize what many people felt in the 90s, albeit 90s weren't even as nearly horrible as current era. I can't believe that I changed from someone who loved and cared about marvel characters, to a person that feels burned out by marvel, and avoids them like fire

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>>90104586
>bleedingcool

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>>90130303
>>90130398
Time to update the anger = sales chart!

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>>90133995
Can we call this the Hate Fucking Guide To Comics Publishing?

>>90128115
Zimbabwe

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>>90104586
>bleedingcool

Gee maybe you would sell more if your comics were good.

>>90133384
>>90134595
>B-Bleeding Cool is always bad guise

Only if you're too dumb to tell apart the worthless from the useful articles.

>>90134794
I actually do read it. I just like giving it shit too.
The one OP posted is good.

>>90130303
>The Civil War II banner wasn't visually appealing and slaughtered a lot of titles. Readers skipped issues if they tied in or completely dropped the series. Even if the book didn't really tie into the main story, customers opted out.

I didn't think about it but the original design for Millar's CW worked because it stood out against other regular comics covers, didn't it? And the CW2 ones were basically like a regular Marvel cover but with a black banner on top of it with the comic's title in red. It doesn't really stand out at all.

>>90107184
>returnability is a scam

>>90138207
See? That guy never came back once he was made a fool of again so he's waiting for the next thread.

>>90138257

Not memeing here, it wouldn't surprise me if that retard talking shit about DC in every thread was Spencer.

The guy seems obsessed

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>B-BUT IT'S DC'S FAULT OUR PRODUCT IS GARBAGE
>REEEEEEE MUH MOVIES MAN OF MURDER BRAVO SNYDER REEEEEEEE DC BTFO

>>90116094
>Imagine that, people don’t want to pay $9.99 for a comic, even if it does have 100 pages.
At that point, why not just make it perfect bound and sell it as a trade or graphic novel or whatever? Those sell pretty well with that page count and price point - I Hate Fairyland is like 7 bucks on IST and Witchfinder/Lobster Johnson was a hair over 10 last I checked.

>>90117673
>Not one of any of the other extra copies were sold. Free Comic Book Day extras here we come. So I was either originally correct on my ordering or had too much to begin with."
Because then they'd have to admit that nobody cares about books like Captain Marvel. Better to just reboot it every four months and pretend that was always the plan than just stop beating the dead horse.

Plus the kind of audience they're trying two woo may not want books, may not buy books, but they'll sure as shit cause a bunch of negative press if those books get cancelled.

>>90104586
the retailers fucking trouble is THEY HAVE FAT JACKASSES RAPING SPIDER-MAN WITH ENDLESS EVENTS AND EDITORIAL DIRECTIONS BASED ON FAT NECK BEARDS BEING PUT IN CHARGE AND SCREAMING AT THE FANS THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING OR TELLING US WHAT WE WANT.

FUCK YOU QUASADA

>>90116094
>Imagine that, people don’t want to pay $9.99 for a comic, even if it does have 100 pages.

In the comments section, BC user dogwelder (who's a comics retailer) had this to say:

>The wedding issue was well done and people ate that one up. The Death of Deadpool issue was solid, but we started to hear some grumbling. The crossover with Daredevil and Power Man & Iron Fist? Great issue, but people were grumbling and started to drop Deadpool. The latest one with a back up story nobody was demanding but we got it for no reason other than a cash grab? Yep…Deadpool has lost 35% – 40% readership at my store, and it's affected the other Deadpool books along with it. This was not a question of quality, but a realization that a double shipped book was already costing a lot of money, and the frequency of $4.99 and and $9.99 issues had people rethinking their loyalty.

>>90118646
>Zootopia, Jungle Book, Alice 2, and Finding Dory.
Did they even come out at the same time?

>>90138948
No

>make shitty overpriced comics
>rip off die hard fans knowing they are worthless cucks and if they pay to read Civil War 2 or IvX they will for anything
>not so loyal fans drop their shit
>cristiano_ronaldo_"I-bet-DC-did-this".jpg

Just keep milking the drones and cut the bullshit, you could literally stamp a marvel logo on a turd and the drones will line up to buy it

>>90139045
Christ. I was hoping the Disney shilling was just a joke

>>90127701
Jesus christ.

>>90139214
It was possible for two of them to be out at a time though, maybe even 3, but not all 4

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>>90127701
>it's real

>>90127701
My list of reasons to consider attacks on DC as company wars just became longer.

>>90127701
What the fuck

Now I'm more inclined to believe paid Disney shills exist on here

>>90138943
Look that's the price you pay for the great content Marvel provides. They're simply looking out for the consumer and the retailer after all.

>>90134595
>Jude Terror
Considering that's the guy who ran The Outhousers it's nice to see that his special needs brand of satire has found a new home.

The only thing you should be reading on BC is anything involving the words of the retailers themselves.

>>90141367
Why would you believe it? It's well known that paid shills/marketers/interns shill shit on /v/ all the time. What makes you think they don't do it ehre and on other boards too?

>>90127701
Damn

>>90127701
>Mouskateers will try and justify this

>>90115037

DC ships a third less titles than Marvel and for less and Rebirth beat the shit out of Marvel. Even now DC has been taking the majority of the top spots and Marvel is represented mostly by events and #1's. what you have is a scared publisher thinking they have to constantly relaunch after constant events. Meanwhile DC is building up to their biggest event in years and it will sell a shit ton of issues from the concept alone. Thank god Marvel has Disney and their movies to keep them relevant.

>>90145126
Look, it's a licensing thing.

It's just easier for ABC to get posters for Disney movies since they are owned by Disney.

>>90127701
Wew lad that's some unsettling shit there.

>>90145151

Fun tidbit. February has no Major events outside Clone Conspiracy ending.

Feb does not have a bunch of new #1 books Marvel are launching.

Feb does not have a Variant incentive like the hip hop covers.

For the first time we will be seeing what rebirths sales are like 6 months in against Marvels sales without the extra bullshit to prop them up.

>>90145781
Monsters Unleashed AND IvX

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>>90127701
And the guy talking in it WAS Batman.
OUTRAGEOUS!

>>90145781

Marvel has 3 events in Febuary. Monsters unleashed, IvX and Clone conspiracy. It ending means fuck all

Febuary has had Kingpin 1, Elektra 1 , Bullseye 1 and that MU event you wanted to pretend doesn't exist has like 4 tie ins that are also #1

I don't know about the variants but you're already a fucking liar

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Who else is smart enough to see that a cgi Fantastic Four, (and X Men) universe is the best way to salvage the brand in theaters? I found this with Google and from just this image I think it could really work. What animation studio usually works with Fox? Guys...I-i think this is it...the Formula..it can be done.

>>90148991
Stupid fucking me...I meant to create a thread.

>>90127701
Anybody who says Disney wasn't shilling against BvS is a damn fool.

>>90149506

We fucking know they were. There was a bot on twitter that had a shit load of fake accounts saying the exact same phrase

>>90145265
Then why are they talking about how much they hate BvS?

>>90104586
>durr fuck marvel.
I think you mean fuck Disney. Marvel is just another name for Disney now. Disney loves having a monopoly and will rewrite laws to get what the company desires. You'll be hearing more about this stupid shit for sure.

>>90149570
Well, it worked.

>>90127701
Well abc is owned by Disney. What did you expect?

>>90149861
>I think you mean fuck Disney

No it's fuck Marvel. Disney let the comics do whatever the fuck they want because they don't care about them. And Marvel have always been dirty cunts well before the Disney buy out

>>90149939
The writers, actors, producers, studio, channel, and corporation to have a modicum of dignity.

I wanna fight someone.

>>90128145
I can't prove you wrong.

It legitimately upsets me. Walt Disney was an absolute visionary who was so dedicated to making the world a better place, and now his company is run by evil sociopaths who twist his vision and message every chance they get.

>>90150643

Are you surprised? There's a reason he didn't want the Jews to take over

>>90151071
I'm not surprised, but I am eternally disappointed

>>90105042
no but they burned well, to keep the LCS owners warm through the winter.

>>90128172
Does she have any good rule 34?

>>90127701

I've never seen something as gratuitous and in your face as this. I didn't even like BvS but the shilling is making me boycott Disney altogether (not that they give a fuck but still)

>>90155094
If that's what they're willing to do on their channel, imagine what they're willing to pay internet shills for.

>>90155094
Next week they will talk about how great Infinity War is!

>>90149936
Marvel's tactics always work.

>>90157174
And this is why they're going to crash the markets again.

>>90157125
Probably to make posts like >>90107184

>>90157221
Well everyone's eager to swallow their bullshit, so...

>>90157174
Because Marvel fans will believe anything Marvel says.

>>90149672
Because that's the line in the script, it's a movie that would've been in theaters at the time, and BvS is widely accepted to be the worst comic book movie ever made so of course they're going to hate on it.

Plus saying the name of something costs nothing. It's when you show it that you have to deal with licensing, trademarks and all that other stuff.

>>90158957
>BvS is widely accepted to be the worst comic book movie ever made
Only if you're a mouselicker.

>>90158974
Then the entire world must be a "mouselicker", because it's the new Howard the Duck. Even people who have never seen it know it's the worst movie ever made.

I mean just look at all the razzies it was nominated for and will obviously win

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>>90158957
>>90159032
Ratfucker desperate to earn his Shill Swill.

>>90159032
>have never seen it
>know it's the worst movie ever made
Mouseketeers in a nutshell.

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>>90158957
>BvS is widely accepted to be the worst comic book movie ever made

Whenever you guys are sad or think you're life is shit, remember that at least you aren't as pathetic as your average marvel shill

>>90159458
>RT
I miss the days when there were real movie critics.

>>90159458
Ouch BvS was horrendous

>>90159399
True desu. Disniggers are really good at parroting Disney's ideas but not so good at rational thought.

>>90127701
>>90104586

I think I'm pulling the plug on this company. Marvel produces only shit nowadays, overrated shit like the movies and tv shows and correctly trashed shit like the comics, but nothing good. It's not even a company anymore, just a branch of Disney's marketing department. The introduction of ALL legacy characters was only to get a few clicks and promote other disney products.

Blaming the fans dropping their shitty books on DC and getting the obvious smear campaign to tv is too much. Fuck Marvel, really.

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ONE MAN SAW IT COMING

>>90104586
>it's retailers' fault our comics suck ass!

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>>90107184
>this entire post

>>90159800
I need to start a folder just for Kelly comics and name it "This, but unironically."

>>90145827
IvX is doing around 60k. Less than the Clone Conspiracy tie-ins for ASM. That's "good" but for a big event that's terrible.

>>90105042
Mosaic's actually a good book too, that's what's sad about this. The writing's decent, especially the most recent issue, the art is great. It's a victim of Marvel's stupidity and is going to go down as something of a piece of trivia, an example of Marvel's idiocy in the 2010s.

>>90163376
it's not a good book, stop shilling that SHIT

>>90139196
>you could literally stamp a marvel logo on a turd and the drones will line up to buy it
I mean. I'd love to refute you but Civil War II does exist and some people actually bought it

>>90158957
The worst comic book movie of all time is Supergirl. This is objective fact.

>>90162967
Maybe even the die hard Marvel fanboys are checking out because they're tired of their favorite heroes murdering each other?

Though tbqh I can only think of Ms. Marvel being the only Inhuman that anyone would give a fuck about so they're even scraping the bottom of the barrel THERE.

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>>90165521
>he worst comic book movie of all time is Supergirl. This is objective fact.

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>>90165746

>>90165746
>not liking Shaq
Casual or Drumpf supporter?

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>>90165746

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>>90165521
>>90165746

>>90165411
>I mean. I'd love to refute you but Civil War II does exist and some people actually bought it

It was one of the best selling comics of the year, and also one of the worst pieces of shit this genre has ever created. I don't know why they bother to give explanaitions, they just have to keep on doing their bullshit to pretend they are still on top and go on being a happy IP farm

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>>90165521

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>>90165822

>>90165898
Hey now, that was a comedy, designed to be campy

>>90165932
well, then the first one, that was no way it was a comedy

>>90159490
"Real" movie critics are old people with a stick up their ass who masturbate to seven hour long French movies about despair and drying paint. We do not need more of those in the world.

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>>90165521
Supergirl>>>Superman IV

>>90165746
>>90165778
>>90165781
>>90165822
>>90165859

I knew people were going to respond, and that people were going to mention some of these.

But ALL these don't have the one thing that makes Supergirl the worst:

Supergirl's plot is driven by fighting over a BOY.

Even Halle Berry Catwoman had an ACTUAL SUPERVILLAIN PLOT.

>>90166013
>"I'm a pleb please add quips to your movies or else it triggers my ADHD reeee"

Please leave and stay leave

>>90166056
So is ok two guys fighting over a girl but is not ok for two girls fighting over a guy? Misogynist pig!

>>90166085
Yeah, sure. The "real" movie critics who show up in newspapers and shit will pan anything that isn't "artistic" or the occasional "inspiring" movie. Doesn't matter if it's a big budget horror film (unless, of course, it falls into the "artistic" category), an action flick, a superhero movie with quips or a straight up comedy. They don't give a shit about quality or enjoyment, they're just old and pretentious.

>>90166156
Which of those movies has no plot other than two guys fighting over a girl, show me

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>>90166183
You are wrong.

>>90166193
Only by having Peter O`Toole Supergirl´s movie is far better than some of the posted before

>>90165822
WAT

>>90166183
>boo hoo they don't like shit like me

>>90105856
>>Batman #48 cost $2, cover $3.99 order twenty sold 16 $40 cost $66 collected $26 profit Batman#16 cost $1.50, cover $2.99 order twenty sold 16 $30 cost $48 collected $12 profit
Well, the idea behind the lower price+returnability is "let's have more people try and buy this"

If this doesn't happen, it's a failure(because the lower gains of the retailers).
If it happens, it's a success.

Did it happen?

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>>90166456
Want to know the worst part? This was in 2005, and it had a 30 million dollar budget. It ended up being a SciFi Channel rellease

>>90166559
Well based on a lot of other retailer accounts, it happened.

>>90166601
Marvel really likes pissing on Gerber's grave, don't they?

>>90165975
yeah but it stared Ray Wise, so there's no way it can be bad.

>>90107184
I can't understand how the hell the american market can work in first place.

In Italy it's usually "order X of BOOK and you get more discount as well as full returnability in N months".
It's actually uncommon and usually reserved for new series

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>>90104586
>the narrative is crumbling
How long before the Mouse liquidates them? Failure will not be tolerated, and we know they don't need floppies, just the properties to fuel their cinematic quipfests.

>>90167614
Never, even if it's 'losing' money it's still a way for them to beta test storylines for the movies and TV shows

>>90167614

Never, they are so small that saving the money they're losing by giving comics away wouldn't make up for the bad PR

>>90167614
the movies are important
the live action tv shows are important
the cartoons are important
the video games are important
the merchandise is important
the brand is important

the comics are not important, they are script and IP farm.

>>90167735
>>90167711
>>90167658
So, soon? Nice.

>>90167799
How about we just kiss already?

File: blgv1130.jpg (34KB, 362x337px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 362x337px

>>90167949
>kissing a mouth that has been sucking off mice