Why the fuck are villains with actual powers AFRAID of the Joker?

>>90024929
>Why the fuck are villains with actual powers AFRAID of the Joker?

Bad writing.

Because he's cuh-razey. Also he probably has gadgets or shit like that.

>>90024929

Psimon was trying to be the leader and Joker just bashes his head in and assumes that role. These aren't masterminds that could do the same or better than him. They're just random criminals that want to get home and don't have the brainpower to do so.

Also

They're a superstitious cowardly lot.

The only reason the Joker even still exists is because fans and writers like him. There is no in-universe reason that he should be relevant at all. He's just a crazy person who doesn't have any superior training in fighting nor academics. You just pretty much have to ignore all attempts at justifying him.

>>90025056
Most villains either have actual powers that trump gadgets or have their own gadgets that have superior tech.

>>90024929
The more popular you are the more powerful you get.

Who are the other villains in OP? I notice Clayface and Giganta, both of whom could crush Joker.

>>90024929
Because a psycho who's beaten a child to death with a crowbar and cut his own face off is more scary than just a guy with an ice gun or whatever. He's basically the John Wayne Gacy of the DCU.

>>90025158
You know how the Flash has speedforce? I remember walking in on a conversation at my LCS where these three guys were talking about other kinds of forces, and they mentioned that the Joker has "insaneforce", which apparently means that even though he doesn't have any actual powers the depths of his insanity gives him control over others because his presence intimidates others.

Please for the love of god tell me that's not actually a thing from any of the comics.

>>90024929
because they are a superstitious, cowardly lot

>>90025837
Might as well be for all the shit he gets away with

>>90025271
If you were a given villain, it's quite possible that your powers would trump whatever Joker has up his sleeve. There's also the possibility that he has exactly what it takes to bring you down in an unspeakably horrible fashion.

Basically, attacking or opposing him is like playing Russian Roulette with 3-4 rounds in the cylinder.

>>90024929
The Joker existence make no sense anymore after all the things he has done.

DC needs to retire him for a really good while.

>>90025746
So then cap his ass. He doesn't have any power if nobody follows him.

>>90026025
>So then cap his ass

Try that and see an elaborate plan unfold that trumps your attempt, because he not only knew you were going to but was counting on it for his plan to work

Questions like these are stupid, because it's comics...it's the same reason Batman or the Punisher are feared among super powered people, PLOT

>>90026010
But in the OP, the villains outnumber the Joker a hundred to one. The Joker had to beat someone to death with a rock, he is clearly at his weakest.

Psychologically, it's quite simple: they spend their villainous careers being beaten up by a guy who lacks powers and regularly takes on metahumans. Combine that with how readily the Joker is happy to kill and their fear is understandable.

>>90026152
While the odds are that that rock is all he has, do you want to be the villain who finds out the hard way that he has something else or that he knows your fatal weakness?

>Batman can take on any villain in the DC universe
>Joker can hold his own against Batman
It's that simple.

>>90026016
They need to give him the Barry Allen treatment where he dies and disappears from print for like 20 years until he shows back up and eclipses the character that replaced him

>>90026190
This.

>>90026105
>Questions like these are stupid, because it's comics...it's the same reason Batman or the Punisher are feared among super powered people, PLOT
I just don't get it. You complain about comics getting darker and edgy, people tell you not to complain because comics aren't just dudes in spandex fighting, but you complain about over the top bullshit and people tell you not to complain because "it's just comics dude, chill".

>>90026190
And both of those things are retarded

>>90026226
First of all, /co/ is not one person...I don't think I've personally ever complained about comics being dark and edgy....hell I complain more when they're too lighthearted with forced "ZOMG FUN!" crap

But regardless, the point is that comic books are written by writers, the universes of comic books are not concrete because they are a. fiction, and b. fiction written by tons of different people all using the same characters and universes....if you're into comics, this should easily be understood, the reason certain things happen in comics that might not make logical sense in the real world is because it's not the real world and literally anything can be written into happening

Why are villains afraid of the Joker? Because he's written to be the worst of them all, oh...you want someone to shoot the Joker? Fine, I'll just write it so that he wanted them to shoot him....because he is the worst most cunning criminal mastermind ever, and so of COURSE he wanted to be shot and it backfires on the person who did it! He's the Joker!

Sometimes I feel like people who ask these questions treat comics as if it's some real alternate universe somewhere, and not what it is....fiction

>>90026186
Yes, by shooting him from a distance with my laser gun/long-range powers

>>90026407
That was a patsy Joker you shot who he brainwashed in advance, the real Joker shows up behind you, compliments your aim, and you start trembling in fear as all the other villains turn on you in allegience of him because you just got Joker'd

>>90025837
It's not official, but Joker's madness has let him beat the Spectre.

>>90024929

I dunno if they need to kill him off, but I for one am really fucking tired of the character, he's been focused on way too much lately... i think out of almost any character in the big two he's the one that just needs to go away for a while... but DC has that whole 3 jokers thing to resolve so that aint happening.

That actually might be the most refreshing part of the rebirth batbooks is that he hasn't been involved in any of them so far, not even all star batman, and we all know the hard-on Snyder has for the character.

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>>90024929
This thread again? Look as a villain what beef would I have with The Joker? He sticks to Gotham and I don't work there.

If I do work in Gotham? Joker provides distraction for my own schemes. He's an asset and if he does screw up a plan or two? That's the cost of business. Going to war is expensive and unlike the Joker I am in it for the money. And the fame. And the respect. And the groupies. But mostly the money.

>>90024929
My interpretation has always been that he is very, very good at reading people. The Joker can already tell if you have it in you to kill him. And if you do, he has a surprise way to kill you first as soon as you try.

Whereas batman prepares for everything, the Joker prepares exactly what he needs.

>>90025837
>>90025978

DC should just make Joker an avatar/figment/peice of Delirium from Sandman already and be done with it.

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>>90024929
On one hand I love the idea of a simple man being scarier than people with powers, but the way it's done with Joker leaves me with bad taste in my mouth. I can't put my finger on why, though.

>>90026206
>shows back up and eclipses the character that replaced him
Barry eclipsed Wally by virtue of them literally erasing him from existence.

>>90024929
Probably because he's both scary and charismatic, and was bold enough to put himself in charge. For example, Giganta could just step on him, but if all the other villains stepped in to defend him (because they are scared, or think he's a competent leader, or genuinely think like him), she would probably loose, and the joker wouldn't hold back on the punishment. OP's image is overdoing it, however. Maybe if he asked a specific villain to bring him the steak, it would be less cringy..

>>90024929
Now say the same about Luthor.


Fucking retard. If you hate batman just stop talking about characters you don't like, make a storytime about Nova or a thread about Under rated villians instead of making the same fucking thread 5 times a day.

>>90024929
Because Salvation Run is shit. Nothing but bad writing all around. Just look at what that shit event did to J'onn? He have never been the same since.

>it's the same reason Batman or the Punisher are feared among super powered people,
>PLOT
You've got to pick if you're going to argue as a Watsonian or a Doylist.
The in-universe justification is the fact that Batman, just a normal human with a lot of tricks up his sleeves, is able to stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the Justice League, and go toe-to-toe with Gods.
And he's this greed haired motherfucker that's still a major pain in his ass.

>>90027929
>batman is a normal human

>>90024929
>>90025837
Joker does have some actual powers aside from the fan-discussed stuff like "insaneforce".

Joker is immune to many chemicals' adverse effects and his own blood is poisonous, for example.

>>90026888
Then the Joker kills you, because he was in his edgy phase. Or thought it was funny.

this makes me long for a joker ongoing. The catch is he has to kill one of the "not-batman" character ever 2-3 issues. Literally rewrite batman international with the joker killing at the "batmen". He is coming for you batwing. Hell he can take out the kids from the robins comics with a dirty bomb.

>>90027997
So he's a knockoff Ivy now? Is this him trying to win his bi-curious bitch back?

>Look Harls, I can kiss people to death too! See?
>Mr. J, you just bit that guy's tongue off

>>90027829
>>90027929

The difference is that Luthor is the smartest man on the planet. He could just create a device to drain their powers or turn them all into monkeys or shit like that. The joker is smart, but not that capable.

Same as batman. Even if he's overrated and has insane amounts of plot armour, he still is one of the smartest and most resourceful men on the planet. His training and equipement make him capable of handling godlike beings. Plus he's outsmarted the joker several times, the joker himself has admitted that every time he tries to think out of the box or being crazy and unpredictable, batman creates a new box around him. So it's not necessarily the same situation.

I want Joker to die at the hands of a nobody who got lucky.

>>90027997
He has tard-strenght, heals faster and is can barely feel pain. It's inmune to most forms of mind control, and even when it's "healed" his brain eventually resets into being an asshole again., but i believe the real reason is simple: cult of personality, he is a star among the bad guys, that shit has more weight than real power.

>>90025837
The Joker has 'super sanity".

>>90028079

You're everything wrong with Jokerfags.

>>90028205
How?

>>90027436
Maybe because Joker is treated like the be-all, end-all of DC villains these days. That's my reason, anyway.

>>90028274
>these days.

How young are you?

Are you one of those idiots that believes it has to do with the nolan movies?

>>90028225
>Immune to mind control

That's "punisher resisting the penance stare" tier of dumb. The joker should be affected by mind powers, like that time the martian made him sane again

As for powers, he also has tard speed, obvious genius level intellect and a shit ton of money. Plus some incarnations have stuff like acid flowers or giant hammers and helicopters with his face on it. And the ability to reinvent himself, of course.

>>90026460
So basically, he teleports behind you?

Hyper Sanity son, i ain't gotta explain shit

>>90028261
Stray bullet from a drive by shooting

>>90028227
That was just a bullshit theory about why he lies about his identity so much. Whoever wrote that watched a few too many Law & Order episodes with psycho perps.

>>90028381

He has been shot in the face.

>>90028205
Joker running from the Batman. A speeding car driven by a man attempting to get his pregnant wife to the hospital in order to give birth to his child. Man in speeding car hits the j-walking Joker and send him flying 300 feet into the air. As the Joker hits the ground, his neck is snapped and his brain matter is splatted all over the place. Man in car is given an Award for Heroism and Bravery. A national holiday was created in Gotham to honor the man.

>>90028498
And then things got worse for Batman...

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>>90028498
I can get behind this. Make it so.

>>90024929
I sincerely doubt any writer would have Black Adam or Sinestro put up with his shit and not have Joker transform into a smear on the wall.

>>90028328
>That's "punisher resisting the penance stare" tier of dumb
What about it is dumb, exactly?

>>90028801
It's almost as if Penance Stare is supposed to make the person feel the pain they inflicted on others, not make them burn because they regret something.
It's almost as if "if they don't regret their crimes, they don't burn" is an idiotic and inefficient concept in a world full of homicidal sociopaths.

>>90028801
The penance stare doesn't care whether you feel guilty or not. Frank being an unrepenant murderer who feels absolutely justified in his every crime and actions doesn't MATTER. The Penance Stare works by magically inflicting on the target all the pain they've ever inflicted on others across their whole lifetime.

Frank has hurt a LOT of people.

>>90029012
>>90028906
The Punisher is protected by Death and we all know Death > the shitstain that is Ghost Rider.

>>90024929
The same reason Batgod exists: popularity

>>90028381
>Joker sauntering down the street off to fuck with Bats at midnight
>stereotypical deli owner runs past bumping Joker
>"meat so bad it gave you the runs?"
>deli owner clearly unfazed despite facing a super villain picks himself up and keeps running mumbling something about his family
>Joker pulls out comically oversized pocketwatch and sighs melodramatically
>"Clock King'd be miffed if he knew I was stealing his bit"
>Joker turns and follows determined to find out why he ignored his joke
>finds deli owner whimpering to himself in the doorway of his shop about protection money
>Joker's new bit interrupted by screeching of tires
>hoodrats pull around corner unleashing a hail of bullets from their beat up vehicle tearing apart the store, the owner and the Joker

>early next morning the street is sectioned off in dim light
>comish Gordo pulls back the blanket unveiling the Joker's grimace as Batman stands atop a nearby building looking solemn as he realizes his life has changed

>>90024929
The joker keeps Gotham crime stable. Without him, it's a freeforall to become the next King of crime.

>>90029100
But the Joker isn't a crime boss, he doesn't give a shit about money, drugs, prostitutes, gambling or whatever. He just every so often fucks shit up for everyone, even the Mob, like that time he killed all of Carmine Falcone's bodyguards and threatened him in his bed, then tried to kill Falcone's children.

>>90029271
He doesn't need to be; The Joker keeps the others in check because they don't want to encroach on him or his plans, because they don't want to have to not only deal with him, but wherever he goes, The Bat is soon to follow.

>>90024929
honestly ignoring any "meta" reasons behind it, my personal headcanon is that in the aftermath of Emperor Joker, the tiniest fragment of 5th Dimensional power is still embedded in Joker's soul, not enough for him to actively do anything with even if he was aware of it, but because of it, he radiates off danger much higher than what someone like him would normally be able to(thus why people rarely try to kill him even when it'd be easy to do so), and due to how the 5th Dimension is beyond Time & Space this retroactively applies to Joker even before the events of Emperor Joker

>>90028328
>The joker should be affected by mind powers, like that time the martian made him sane again
it is worth mentioning that Martian Manhunter was only able to do that for a couple minutes and it was extremely taxing on him(although I think we can both agree The Spectre not being able to judge him was ridiculous)

>>90029012
yeah if I ever got the opportunity to write at Marvel, I'd definitely have another confrontation between Punisher and Ghost Rider end with Frank getting successfully Penance Stared

>>90029075
not a bad idea

The Joker is just a Mary Sue edgelord. Coldsteel level of edgelord. I guess it's the only way to counter Mary Sue Batman.

>>90024929
>Joker dies
>His soul goes to Hell
>Strikes a deal with the demons and is resurrected, but this time he has hellish, Satanic powers

>>90029835
This.

>>90028386

It was Grant Morrison, and it was in "A Serious House on Serious Earth." Morrison has repeatedly made it clear that that entire story was literally just a dream sequence; Batman having a terrible nightmare, which is why everything is so surreal and disjointed.

So it's not that the writer was suggesting that this is an actual explanation. He had Batman dreaming of a figment of his imagination proposing this insane idea.

>>90026105
Punisher, not so much. The real big guys don't give a shit, see his Dark Reign mini when he pissed off Sentry. Agreed on insane survivability though.

>>90024929
Because he's so Cuh-Rayzee!
I mean for fuck's sake. Warp alone could teleport him two miles up and he'd be able to do precisely dick about it.

>>90028328
>like that time the martian made him sane again

DIdn't that last for like 10 seconds?

Joker can cast cause fear at will. The save DC's not all that high but well... >>90025862

>>90024929
because writers praise the joker? i dont know
>>Why the fuck are villains with actual powers AFRAID of the Joker?
y have i never noticed this?

>>90031626
>>implying people are afraid of a literal clown
wouldnt normal people want to kill a clown on sight out of fear?

>>90029012
The sad thing is, they could have easily just made Frank go and get himself high, as one of the established failings of the Penance Stare is that it doesn't work on those under the influence of drugs, but instead they went with "lolnoregrets".

>>90031683
>wouldnt normal people want to kill a clown on sight out of fear?

If that were even remotely true we wouldn't have had "creepy clown sightings" making the news. Instead we would have had "creepy clown killings" as the headline.

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>I'm such a badass villain that I'll just kill the Joker if he tries to boss me around!

Congratulations, you just played yourself, fool. They aren't afraid of the Joker, they're afraid of his lover and his legion of mind-raping alien world-busters.

>>90031683
He tricks the Fight or flight fear response in your head into removing the fight instinct to make the flight instinct twice as potent.

would the joker survive in the marvel universe?

>>90024929
he's so randumb that if you try anything against him, it's 100% sure to backfire on you and kill you

yes, he is so lol randumb but it works against his enemies. you'd never see his dumb ass clown tricks fail in the heat of the moment because his randumbness never works against him

>>90031741
Pretty sure some of those guys did actually get shot.

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>>90028906
>>90029012
>>90029587
>>90031689
I'm hoping that was just part of a long build up to reveal that Punisher has just become immune to magic for some reason.

>>90028328
Mind control/telepathy immunity is the ONE benefit of "super insanity" I could buy. It'd be like trying to fly a plane but all the buttons/switches are wired to the wrong thing.

>>90031895
I think the worst that came out of it was that one guy dressed up as Batman to hunt them down, and one clown in the Philippines got beat up by drug addicts.

>>90024929
Joker and Batman like their steak well done.

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>>90031794
>> He tricks the Fight or flight fear response in your head into removing the fight instinct to make the flight instinct twice as potent.
that sounds too edgy to be real

>>90031857
He'd end up either stealing or being given Amatsu-Mikaboshi's power and become a huge threat.
Because he's the Joker.

>there are people actually trying to say that joker is the same as batman and/or lex
lol no

Batman and Lex can actually pose a threat to superhumans. Joker is just a dude that manages to still be alive thanks to 4th wall popularity

>>90031952
That logic is wrong as hell. Just because the airplane controls got switched doesnt mean I dont have control of the plane. I'm flying it real bad and will probably crash and die but that doesnt mean I wasnt controlling it.

Mind control immunity is basically locking the cock pit door so you cant get in at all

>>90028079
>He is coming for you batwing.

The first thing I thought of was the David Zavimbe version of Batwing and now I really want a story about Joker travelling to the Congo and no one taking him seriously because every mook is a former child soldier who has seen and done worse.

>>90031898
I can dig it.

>>90031857
He would be one of meme characters like Squirrel Girl and Deadpool.

>>90032036
>Just because the airplane controls got switched doesnt mean I dont have control of the plane.

No anon, it means that in order for you to figure out how to fly the plane right you'd need to figure out what control does what, while at the same time trying to keep telling yourself that that's not how things should work. The moment you "get the hang" of an insane mind is the moment you lose yourself in the insanity, because you perceive what goes on in there as normal and end up forgetting you went in to set things straight.

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>>90024929
What in the hell could Joker possibly do to harm Effigy if he really wanted to?

The guy is a lantern tier being that can survive flying faster than light and can make fully living intelligent shit out of fire.

>>90027745
>charismatic
i've never gotten this. what exactly makes the Joker charismatic in any way? he's just some creepy weirdo.

>>90032329
He's canonically charismatic, more so than the people writing him, so it's hard for them to properly portray him that way.

>>90024929
Many of them are not killers, or not so cold blooded killers as the Joker.

Or they possibly could kill him, but may not be able to avoid getting joker gased during their attempt.

Joker ain't that easy to kill either, he has escape plans and gadgets. He could avoid getting killed by Carnage who was standing right next to him in that crossover.

>>90032036
"control" without knowing how to get the result you want, is just "Effecting". Mind control can have effects on Joker, but if you try and turn a plane to the left, and instead the back landing gear deploys, you're not really in control, and it's gonna look like nothing happened.

>>90026190
Except the Joker will fucking kill you, and possibly very casually.

At best you look like a butt pirate and waste an inordinate amount of time dealing with him. It's not fucking worth it. Just leave the Joker alone.

>>90028498
His wife to go into labor in the car, stillborn, the doctors said, caused by the trauma. His wife killed herself a few weeks later. Everytime he closes his eyes he sees the blood, the brain matter smeared across the windshield, hears his wife's scream, the phantom cry of a baby never born. He holds the award the city gave him in his hand. He stares at it grimly before picking up the facepaint with determination.
"It's all just a big joke."

>>90025546
I see Cheetah, Effigy, Mr Terrible, Tremor, Shimmer, and Warp.

Any of them can kill Joker without much effort.

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>>90031898
That issue was hilarious.

Also, putting happiness spells on a guy whose only joy in the world is killing people like yourself, that's just making him stronger.

>I'm hoping that was just part of a long build up to reveal that Punisher has just become immune to magic for some reason.

There was that one time when he was the agent of some Angels, I think.

That, and he is an agent of Death. That means he is protected against penance stare.

>>90031952
I could buy it if the reason was his distinctive super sanity instead of mere insanity. What sets the joker apart of other lunatics is his ability to constantly remake his personality and backstory in an instant, that's basically a superhuman ability. Stuff like "ohh the joker's brain is confusing and scary because he's so crazy" really diminishes the merit of heroes with mental powers.

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The joker is a joke character that works in silver age/golden age silliness but becomes nonsensical when taken into the grimdark super serious modern tone of comic. It's like if you put Elmar Fudge, Pop Eye or Daffy Duck and put them into DC to tell a super grimderp story and make him relevant with cringe worthy dialog and oh my god it's so fucking dumb.

>>90032548
That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make him super powerful just because he has hyperautism and basically say "He can give himself the competence of Ra Ghoul, Dexter, Hannibal Lecter and Sherlocke Holmes because he decided to raise his IQ to 500", it's stupid whatever way you spin it.

It's like the Sentry but without any super powers.

>>90028079

Lol you sound like a little retarded edgelord...

>>90032468
Why?
Outside plot shield ANYONE with a handgun can shoot him. Anyone. The only reason no one can kill him is because his power is literally plot protection.

>>90032134

1 issue, ending with Joker being hacked up with machetes, sounds good to me.

>>90028702
Those two need to hook up with a repowered Zolomon, Zod, Circe, and maybe Despero and form a team of super evil bros that actually manage to accomplish things.

>>90025158
I think hes relevant. Bad writing aside

Hes exactly as described. Hes a terrorists, kills people without fear for himself.

Other people want money ....oh god, im quoting Dark Knight.....

Nevernind...

>>90032504
Mr. Terrible would actually be a pretty good counter to Joker's schemes.

And you're forgetting that Cheetah is a Wonder Woman villain appearing in a crossover that isn't written by Gail Simone, so she's somewhere around nameless flunky-tier.

>>90026105
Punisher, not so much. Because i think hes cool, so hes allowed to have plot armor.

>>90024929
Joker threads should be banned. You've had these discussions a million times already. You should be sent to /trash/ with the other unwanted generals.

>>90032909
Eventually there will be nothing left on /co/ just a barren desolate board devoid of life. Occasionally some will try to start a thread. They are banned.

>>90024929
A lot of other villains have limits

And Joker clearly does not
Sure you could try and kill him
Maybe they'll succeed, maybe he'll bullshit his way out of it, maybe his BFF batman will rescue him.

But then everyone that villain who tried to kill the joker knows. His family, his friends, maybe loyal henchmen.

They're all fucking dead.
Doesn't matter who. Doesn't matter why.

He fucked with the Joker, and even if he's too strong for the Joker to hurt, he'll just crumble the world around him.

>>90032724
They don't even kill him, they just laugh at him and every time he tries something they beat him with their rifle butts. The issue ends with him calling the Gotham PD and telling them where he is so they can turn on the Batsignal and have Batman come pick him up.

They hang up on him.

>>90032909
>You should be sent to /trash/ with the other unwanted generals.
If that really were the case, we'd have to move Steven Universe threads there, too.

>>90032474
And thus The Comedian was born.

>>90031857
He would be an okay Daredevil villain or Punisher villain, and possibly a rival to Kingpin. But he is street level and not really a threat to lots of Marvel. Spider-Man might not notice him half the time.

I cannot see him getting away with his city wide antics when over a hundred heroes live in New York. Reed would undo his poisoning of the East River, or cure a jokerization cloud. In the underworld he would have to contend with Hobgoblin, Tombstone, and Hydro Man.

He would not be as big of a deal. He would be a much smaller fish in NYC.

>>90024929
Does Mr Terrific have a rogue that's a white version of him?

>>90027985
With a super human intellect. People often seem to forget this.

>>90032319
>>90032420
Giganta could just pick him up and pop his head off. Joker would not be able to do shit about it.

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>>90033047
>Joker
>Punisher villain
Think again

>>90032719
Typically a handgun is the only way Joker kills people too. Half of that crow are not threatened by a handgun.

>>90033103
I never said for how many issues...

>>90033079
How is his intellect "super human" in any way? Don't get me wrong, I can roll with him being a genius and/or extremely well educated, but that's still just human level intellect. Nothing super about it.

>>90032964
>But then everyone that villain who tried to kill the joker knows.
>He fucked with the Joker, and even if he's too strong for the Joker to hurt, he'll just crumble the world around him.
What are you even trying to say here

>>90033049
Yup, Mr Terrible. Basically evil Mr Terrific that has the same costume and uses the same gadgets.

>>90032964
The problem is that most other villains wouldn't care about that. Very few villains actually have friends, family, and henchmen they care about and those that do usually have those friends and family in the supervillainy business. Not to mention that anyone who pisses off the Joker has the added benefit of being able to bring Batman, and whichever local heroes are around if outside of Gotham, in to help stop the Joker.

>>90033192
He's trying to say that the Joker will inexplicably survive, inexplicably find out all of the villains' loved ones, and inexplicably kill all of them without being caught and obliterated by said villain.

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Haven't they very recently toyed with the idea of Joker actually being some kind of ancient eldritch entity that fucks with humanity on occasion, and cannot even be killed?

>>90033214
That's why Cheetah should be the one to fuck with Joker, the closest things she has to loved ones are a chthonic, sacrifice-demanding plant god and Wonder Woman. She just walks in one one of Joker's schemes, kills all his henchmen, beats him up, shit talks him like a wrestling heel, then walks away knowing he can't do shit.

>>90033212
Okay
Suddenly the bank that the villain usually holds up is gone
Not robbed or anything, literally blown to bits, all the employees, all the money. Needlessly destroyed.

The villains main hang outs or targets he likes to strike are all destroyed.

Maybe he owns a business, it mysteriously burns down.

His car is suddenly melted in a bizarre acidic carwash incident.

All his clothes are replaced with clown suits.

Everyone has something

>>90033355
>All his clothes are replaced with clown suits.
Joker! You've gone too far!

>>90033339
Go to bed Bettlejuice

>>90033339
Yeah, but it was eventually revealed to be photoshop bullshit and magic healing water.

I'm wondering if they are really afraid of Joker, or the fact that they just KNOW that Batman will be gunning for the Joker's killer if anyone actually makes the attempt.

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>>90033339
No dumbass, the Joker is not Beetlejuice.

Go fanfiction somewhere else

>>90033395
>villain laughes it off
>goes to a suit store
>employees look terrified
>"W-we can't sell to you sir..."
>everywhere he goes its the same thing
>he shrugs
>orders some nice suits online
>whenever the packages arrive they're just filled with clown suits
>at this point he's been wearing the same thing for a week now because no one will sell him clothes
>borrows a henchmen's suit
>the henchmen's family dies
>the suit disappears while he's in the shower
>other henchmen too afraid to lend out clothes
>literally has to stoop to stealing clothes


I mean it's an insane and petty revenge plot.

But I mean...

That's Joker for you.

>>90033486
>Villain shows up to battle Batman while dressed as a clown
>"My god, you work for the Joker now?"

>>90033193
Can you imagine if /pol/ found out about this guy?

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>>90024929
Because if they kill him, there are still two other equally crazy Jokers that will find everyone they love/care about/respect/work with/work for and grind them into a slurry and then force-fed to them with a funnel. It will end with the person responsible for the transgression against the Jokers then having their limbs cut off after the meal, their still-alive torso then tossed to the rest of the villains and they are all forced to eat the bloody stump alive, less they suffer a worse fate.
Or just fanbody writers wanking it to the Joker while working on the comic, take your pick.

>>90033355
>Not robbed or anything, literally blown to bits, all the employees, all the money. Needlessly destroyed.

Then the villain just sits back and waits for Batman. That's the problem with this scenario, no matter what all you have to do is sit back and wait for Batman.

>>90033214
But that doesnt make any sense

The initial post made a vague assumption that whoever wanted to kill joker "succeeded"

Why would the joker survive other than being shittily written

>>90033625
Wouldn't Batman just capture both villains?
>"You've been casing this bank for weeks, I don't know why you wanted the Joker to destroy it but I'm taking you both in"

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>>90024929
Their fear of the Joker always has a limit.

>>90033575
They'd have all of four appearances to go on, none of which feature Mr. Terrific.

>>90033625
And that's it? Wait for Batman to solve your Joker problem?

"Ayy boss, maybe we ought have batman signin' our cheques"
"Pffhhahaha yeah boss, maybe we should call batman next time a deal goes sour"

It still puts the villain in a lesser light. Suddenly they're forced to deal with Joker, and that's when Batman swoops in because "MUH JOKER"

>>90033339
recently is a strong word.
Grant Morrison put forward two ideas
One is that there's this 'thing' that exists in mirrors. Arkham called it 'The Dragon', which at the historical period was another way of saying The Devil. It goes people their true reflection and brings out the worst in them. Arkham, Joker, and Professor Pyg are all implicated as being victims.

The other is that Joker is an agent or avatar of Baron Ghede, a voodoo death lord who has a thing for punishing hubris if I remember right. However this is implied to just be the latest 'multiple choice past' Joker had settled on at the time and was dropped once Bruce came back after Final Crisis and Dick stopped being Batman.

if the Three Jokers thing ever goes anywhere I suspect one of them will be used to represent the idea of Joker as a preternatural force of chaos

>>90033571
>"Alright, I understand the Joker stole and replaced all your clothes, but did he force you to put on the face paint and red nose too?"
>"Look Bats, you can't half-ass a look like this"

>>90033767
"And the clown car?"
"That's what I found in my garage when I woke up this morning. Come on bats cut me some slack"

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>>90033742
I like to think that the Joker is the one thing that was never overwritten when the universes would reboot, only recreated with the world, which has led to multiple Jokers in the same world.
After all, there's always more than one Joker in the deck, even though it's only supposed to have 52 cards.
>52 cards in a deck
>52 universes
>Illuminati confirmed

>>90033836
And thus the Jokers revenge was complete.

>>90033712
What do you care? It's Gotham, you can get a dozen mooks for $1000 bucks and a keg of beer. Meanwhile Batman stops the Joker.

>>90025120

Basically this. Joker is pulling one huge bluff on a lot of the guys there, and because none of them are as clever or bold as A-listers like Luthor, it works.

>>90032319

Salvation run kind of sucks for that reason, a lack of consideration for power levels. But still, Joker has Effigy THINKING he can co something to him. so it works.

>>90024929
>Clayface
>Scared of Joker

I get him being wary, but I'm pretty sure at most he's only had partnerships under the pretense of a goal.

>>90033917
>BREAKING NEWS
>Joker escapes Arkham again
>Gordon calling Batman out for not just raping the Joker already

And you're right back where you started, Joker's gonna mess with your organization until he feels like he's beaten you.

>>90033917
No mook will ever respect someone who needs Batman to bail them out.
>Work for YOU? Pffffft!

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>>90033862
but what I wanna know is who represents the 'How to Play Poker' card

>>90033994
They're mooks, you don't need their respect as long as they're following orders. If one gets too uppity, spray acid in his face and ask them if they'd rather work for Joker.

>>90033972
Going on the offensive or mocking him are actually great ways to get him to mess up.

>>90033917
>"Look man, the Joker's been saying some things"
>"That you called the Batman for help like a dog with its tail between its legs"
>"I dunno if I can work for a man who goes cryin' to the Bat for help"

>>90034099
But you can't spray acid in the face of someone who isn't there. When you have no cred you have nothing. There are no mooks, no henchmen, no right hand. No one will work for you. You will forever be the guy who needed help from a superhero, you're no criminal, you're a damsel in distress.

>>90033917
"I would but Joker's offering jobs for what you're paying plus more. He literally said he'll just pay more then what you're paying"

And reminder that you're hemorrhaging money because Joker is running your business into the ground.

>>90032964

edgelord nonsense.

>>90028089
Top kek

>>90034258
>Batman shows up in your bedroom
>"I've heard you've become a target of the Joker"
>"Until he's apprehended, I'll be watching you like a hawk. A protector of sorts"
>All the other villains laughing their asses off
>"Hey, do you get a suit too? We could call you Robin senior!"

>>90034414
>a villain who is know for being insane and unpredictable
>"You're being an edgelord thinking he'd act insane and unpredictable!"

I'm sorry, what?

>>90033712
>>90033994
>>90034216
>>90034258
>>90034436

Look at you thinking letting Batman handle the Joker isn't a perfectly acceptable way to deal with that.

>"Holy shit boss! The Joker's here in Chicago! Should we do somethin'?"
>"Nah, just let Batman take care of him. Why waste the resources?
>"Well I meant shouldn't try to team up-"
>"With known team killin' fucktard the Joker? You must out your Goddamn mind. Just tell the boys to lay low for a while, Batman will come and take him back to Gotham, and then we can go back to our organ smuggling ring."

>>90034282
So then you simply start killing the family and friends of Joker's mooks.

>>90034258
So you slim down your operation and run solo.

>>90034436
>Batman keeps showing up
>"I know the Joker will come after you eventually"
>Every other night he's there, outside the window
>Watching
>Eventually the criminal underworld begins to talk
>"I hear you've turned patsy for the Bat"
>"You're a snitch aintcha. You better not show yer face 'round here no more"
>None of your old contacts will even speak to you anymore

>>90034493

thats not why i think you're an edgelord.

the joker should be no more of a threat than the god damn penguin.

>>90034436
Then you show up in a classic Dick Grayson suit and start fighting crime.

>>90034514
See all the posts you quoted for why that wouldn't work

>>90034514
>Batman searching for clues for the Joker
>keeps finding clues to your organization
>many of them seemingly giftwrapped with care
>Joker slips away
>Batman takes down your organization

Yeah
Smart.

>>90034610
>A little gratitude guys, I've just kept the Batman out of your business for weeks.

>>90034623
Honestly the big thing is that you're never going to just face the Joker

Its always gonna be a Joker/Batman combo.
And if Joker doesn't take you down, Batman is just going to take out the trash while he tracks down Joker.

>>90034674
>Joker had been leaking other villains plans during these events
>Batman doesn't even need to be there, Gotham Police pick up the slack
>all the villains continue to turn on you thinking you're a snitch

This is a rather deep ditch you're digging yourself into.

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>>90033742
speaking of that theory, might as well post it

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>>90034819

>>90034762
>You wake up in the middle of the night
>Batman at the foot of your bed
>"Riddler has been active in this area lately. What do you know?"
>Even Batman thinks you're a snitch now

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>>90034833

>>90034657
>Batman realizes he's being played, captures the Joker.

>>90034642
>Yeah, what a fuckin' faggot, teaming up with the Bat! Sure, Batman always captures the Joker, and everyone eventually, and like half the supervillains and mobsters have teamed up with the Bat at somepoint, and the last time Batman showed up he broke my arm in three places, my collarbone, my nose, my jaw, knocked out all my teeth, and I have dizzy spells and can't write legibly anymore after he slammed my head into the concrete, but what a fucking pussy! My cousin Sal worked for the Joker and he told me, before the Joker killed him for no reason, that the Joker only randomly kills like one or two guys of his a week, tops. I'm gonna sign up with the Joker, get me a clown nose and facepaint.

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>>90034850

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>>90034865
end

>>90034854
>Batman
>leaving a villain to continue villainy

Uh huh. Yeah that sounds about right.

>>90034762
What are they gonna do? Batman's right there and GCPD just rounded up their entire organization.

>>90034854
>Batman realizes he's being played, captures the Joker.
Your organisation has still been crippled. What good does that do you?

>>90034898
>eventually batman stops watching you
>suddenly every villain in gotham has you on their hit list for being a snitch

RIP in pieces

>>90024929
Real reason: bad writing

In universe reason that could possibly make sense - Joker has an absolute ton of street cred that makes him into a bigger threat than he actually is.

Because he managed to wrong foot the big bad Batman a few times, he earned a reputation and caused Batman to react in a large and visible manner. Because Batman perceived Joker as a threat, Joker was securitized, and became a bigger threat as he could leverage that reputation to push his agenda.

The Joker kinda reminds me of Al Zarqawi - his standing and a lot of his clout comes from the perception of his power, rather than his actual power. Because everyone knows that he is a danger, he can be a danger. Everyone in the OP is wrong footed by the rumours. Joker is known to be able to serious fuck with Batman, and that knowledge causes fear amongst the other villains. I worked intelligence in Afghanistan and we used similar methods to try and draw out information by spreading rumours and seeing how the insurgent network responded to those rumours.

>>90035034
>You've already taken over the territory and assets.

C'mon, these are the people who don't even the balls to take on the Joker.

>>90035068
>implying Joker hasn't already snatched up everything while the rest are having law issues and you're tucked safely and securely under batmans cape

>>90034819
it might be because i'm sick and high on drugs right now, but i'm having a hard time thinking of how a drill could remove a woman's genitals. ruin maybe, but not remove. wouldn't something like, i dunno, a staple gun be a better choice?

>>90026016
He appears for one arc every 1-2 years and is mostly just mentioned since n52 started. He wasn't even in Forever Evil which exploited basically all of the DC Villains. How much do you think he's used?

>>90035129
>You can't get work anymore
>You got thrown out of the last bar you visited
>Can't even drown your sorrows
>You get home and the Joker is sitting in your chair
>"You want all this to stop? Just come work for me."

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>>90028205
The Joker ain't shit.

>>90035059
probably helps that in more modern continuities people often don't know that Batman is just a regular(if highly trained and equipped) human, so Joker being able to consistently challenge Batman makes Joker look like he's in a heavier weight class than he actually is

>>90035059
The problem is that there are plenty of other villains who are knowledgeable about Joker's abilities and capacities that would counter that. There are also plenty of villains who operate on a much higher powerlevel or on a much more massive scale that wouldn't be affected. Using OP's pic for example, he's got a GL villain and a WW villain afraid of him despite both of them dealing with far more dangerous and capable shit on the regular.

>>90035189
Turning a woman's birth canal into hamburger would be pretty effective at making her effectively sexless.

>>90035194
He went 18 months from his first Nu52 appearance to Death of the Family then didn't reappear until Endgame, 11 months later. He's actually been used rather sporadically since 2011.

>>90035466
I think its a mix of what >>90035381 said and the uncertainty that surrounds it. Batman hangs out with the Justice League, which is a team of people that could each end the world in an afternoon if they wanted. He actively spreads misinformation about himself around and that probably gets exaggerated by villains who a bigging up the guy that faced them.

And then the Batman has a huge amount of trouble dealing with this moron in clown suit.

Though I do agree, OP's pic is silly. I think its reasonable for most villains to want to steer well clear of Joker and avoid trouble with him as much as possible, because a) not worth the time and b) nagging sense of doubt that there may be more to Joker than it seems. And I can see minor mooks being terrified of him due to rumours and hearsay. But I don't realistically see a major A lister or any major powerhouse being totally cowed by him

>>90033175
His learning capabilities are way beyond those of a peak human, he's mastered pretty much every discipline there is to master and has imagined and prepared for thousands of deadly scenarios. He may not be the smartest man in dc (I'm not even sure if, based on feats, he could make it to the top 5), but he's a problem solver of the highest level.

>>90025271
Not many gadgets, powers can beat a surprise flower squirt of acid to the face, followed by a heel to the skull.

>>90035874
>His learning capabilities are way beyond those of a peak human
No they're not, they're exactly those of a peak human. That is the whole point of the Batman character, a human who has reached the absolute peak of what a human can do, physically and mentally.

>>90035887
Any enhanced durability or healing would negate that.

>>90035996
>Acid
>Advanced healing
That sounds even worse.
>"Oh my god my face is melting over and over again! It keeps healing but the acid just melts my skin off again!"

>>90036040
I wasn't aware Joker had infinite acid generation as a superpower.

>>90024929

>they are all scared of Batman
>Joker is Batman's most dangerous and infamous villain, the one guy who Batman can't figure out, who managed to kill Robin and outmaneuver Batman in such a way he never paid for it

I don't give a shit how normal he looks, I'd be scared too. The guy nonchalantly goes into battle with Batman, the scariest guy these people could face.

It's like an old mobster, he may look like a fat piece of shit not capable of dong much past wheezing hard, but if you give it a little thought, you'll scare yourself realizing the shit he must be capable of since he made it to old age in that world.

>>90036103
Acid doesn't just melt something once and vanish anon, it has to be washed off.

>>90036175
Doesn't work that way. Since it's being dispensed in liquid form most of the acid would run off. Not to mention that due to gravity and new tissue growth the damaged tissue would slough off and take the acid with it.

>>90026888
Found the penguin.

>>90036322
No, that is incorrect, acid doesn't just 'run off' this isn't a water off a ducks back situation. And healing in comics is usually just repairing and regrowing existing tissue, it doesn't 'push away' damaged tissue. The acid would cling to the flesh burning through even as new skin grew under it.

>>90036386
It's a liquid impacting a vertical, and presumably mobile, surface that itself will be producing fluids.

>>90033355
This is complete Edgelord autism and doesn't make any sense with the slightest bit of thought put into it.

Say Lex Luthor crossed him for instance. And for some reason, didn't succeed in putting the Joker down. This assumes that over the next week the Joker will be so hyper competent, have so many resources and contacts, and be so hyper intelligent within weeks Luthor will be brought to his knees outsmarted and have his world completely torn to shreds. By a clown. Because the clown is LOLOSO RANDOM XD no less.

To put it into context, imagine the Joker doing this to Thanos or Darkseid and realize how fucking retarded it all sounds.

>>90036468
>vertical
Implying you wouldn't collapse to the ground screaming in agony clutching at your face. you make it sound so clinical anon.
>Eh I'll just stand here and let the acid drip off.

>>90033614
So Joker's power is being basically just being Edgy.

Forget having actual super powers, billions of dollars, immortality or indestructibility, the Joker can do something absolutely nobody (Except anyone on Newsgrounds or some kid on /b/) would think of and that makes him CLEARLY more of a threat and somehow immune to bullets and blunt force or kinetic trauma.

Hell why'd they ever need the superman to stop Doomsday? They should've just sent in the Joker to use SOCRAZY XD powers on him and work his edgy magic and send him into tears.

Good to know.
So dumb.

>>90033742
I feel like they'll eventually settle for the Sentry route with Joker's backstory, and part of his powerset and characterization will be constantly retconning his past and mocking any possibility of him having a deep seated past origin outside being a source for misery.

>>90036567
Even worse, now it's an inverted surface that's producing fluid.
>Eh, I'll just lay on my back and let the acid soak in.

>>90036470
You don't even half to go that far, it becomes absurd when you're dealing with most of the Gotham villains.

>>90034493
>>a villain who is know for being insane and unpredictable

What makes him different then any 'insane and unpredictable' criminal in prison who wouldn't hesitate to skin you or go full mexican cartel?
It's no different than some gary stu OC who goes around doing edgy things and somehow beats people 1000% more powerful than him because he's "so insane and unpredictable."

>>90036664
>Even worse, now it's an inverted surface that's producing fluid.
It's not like there's a choice there anon did you miss the 'screaming in agony' part? Nobody, not even a fictional character, is going shrug off acid to the face.

>>90035887
>powers can beat a surprise flower squirt of acid to the face, followed by a heel to the skull.
Realistically?
A gun would trump a ridiculous death-toy from such a cartoon villain.
And if we're talking realism the idea that a Lantern ring or real superpowers<<<<An acid flower is just stupid.

>>90032329
Have you ever met someone that was a legit psychopath? Psychopathic charm is a real phenomena. People are just unnaturally drawn towards them and often times they know just needs to be said to win over the ones that are not.

>>90026328
The unfortunate rule that EVERYONE FORGETS, TM and Copyright. Comics is a subcatagory that REQUIRES they use/reinvent/continue a character,name,genry,whatever every couple years or less, else it becomes free for all to use and own. Joker, Batman, Superman, and all the hardly spoken/read about ones will like clockwork be rereleased/Improved/Imagined because otherwise the rights holders will be holding paper they can't even start on fire.

I always thought Joker was intimidating to other villains because he holds his own against batman and in the Dc Universe alot of people dont think Batman is just a man and that he's some kind of demon/vampire so the fear and intimidation Batman has transfers to the Joker. On a side note the only thing I liked about Salvation Run was when Vandal rounded up some babes and was gonna impregnate them all.

>>90036817
The ability of psychopaths is in there ability to function 'normally' and blend in, to lie and deceive, to form bonds and relationships and casually break them, and manipulate people with subtly. Think the girl on Gone Girl- she's able to pull off a whole stunt and earn the media's sympathy even after brutally butchering Neil Patrick Harris's character, hiding her cold sociopathic violent self and maintaining the facade of someone who can continue to abuse other's trust.

That entire logic completely falls apart when when you're dealing with a man who paints himself as a clown and openly let's others know it's violent and insane, and makes no attempt to mask it. Any perks of the psychopath role are completely negated in that light.

>>90036817

Not that guy, but I have, turned me off immediately and stayed away from the idiots that were infatuated with that asshole. The people enamored with these folks are also legit brain damaged, I've got nothing more to say about that.

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>>90033742
I thought Joker's whole thing was that he was totally aware that he was in a comic book and he always remembers all one shots, miniseries and everything pre retcons and reboots. He knew all about all the Marvel characters in DC vs Marvel from all the non canon team ups from the 70's.

So his plan for continued existence relies on keeping the readers entertained. So he would never be killed off as long as he was a great character readers want to see.

>>90036939
Funny enough the same kind of people that enjoy the Joker as a character are the ones likely to follow him. He's Ego incarnate and they're attracted to ego, i.e. individuals that seem "So BADASS and Coooool" to them without regard to the external logic of the situation or their own wellbeing.

>>90033212
>Very few villains actually have friends, family, and henchmen they care about ...

WHAT? And you call The Joker an edgelord? Just because we don't focus on criminals supporting cast is no reason to assume they don't exist. Everyone but psychos like The Joker have people they care about.

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>>90026460
The Joker doesn't scale to different settings nearly as well as Batman does.

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>>90028498

>>90034099
Crime runs on respect. You have no courts to enforce deals so it all runs on reputation. Run to the Bat and you are a squealer, no better than the lowest scumbag. No one will work for you.

>>90036793
Reminder that Joker has canonically survived being shot point blank in the head, complete with exit wound, on panel.

>>90036817
There is nothing unnatural about it, it's mostly observation, flattery, and believable lies.

>>90037004
that's never been Joker's thing

>>90029075
I like this and hate this so much

>>90037340

It's still a stupid assumption that because Joker pissed off the wrong person and they slapped his head off that others trying to avenge him won't get wrecked just as hard to the point where no one will think it's worth it.

The same line of thinking that got them infatuated with the Joker and thinking he was bigger than what he actually was will put them off of the idea of trying to hurt the guy that squished the Joker into the dirt like a gnat. They knew the Joker was the biggest shit ever, and some no-name brick squished him like he was nothing, they so totally want to fuck with that guy now.

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>>90025013

/thread

>>90037644
Care to elaborate?

>>90035059

Sup Tom King

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>>90036127
Well said.

>>90037697
>no-name brick squished him like he was nothing
I'm pretty sure Bane's done that before.

>>90037699
Great image anon

>>90037701
The idea of such an influential character in-universe and in the comic book world finally being finished off(assuming the character were to actually stay dead) in such a mundane way is almost insulting. Especially the Joker. A characters whose entire existence is based around grand acts and presentation. And yet it kinda makes sense. He's an agent of chaos and it's all for the laughs. The clown prince of crime going out with a whisper is kinda humorous. No big fight or final showdown just a pointless senseless death. Seems like the biggest prank he could pull is just simply dying.

>>90037934
Okay, thanks for elaborating. I was worried you took issue with his characterization. I'm glad I wrote something that got this nice a response, even if it was a 'What If?' I drummed up in 5 minutes.

>>90024929
Who is even in OP's crowd shot? I am not seeing any masterminds or heavy hitters. Most of these guys are glorified henchmen. Why wouldn't they do what The Joker says?

I see Giganta in the background but she's a complete follower. She could kill The Joker but then she could have to give orders instead. Never going to happen.

Clayface is from Gotham. He's got powers and knows The Joker's rep so he could try and knock off the J-Man. But Clayface is also an idiot. He can turn into anything and somehow he winds up living in Gotham's sewers when he's not in jail. I don't see him doing it either.

Cheetah is just wildly out of character. She would never associate with these losers. She would be soloing it in the woods.

Anyone else in this crowd ready to play the game of thrones? Against The Joker?

>>90024929
>find me a well-cooked steak
>well-cooked steak

THAT is why they're afraid of him. He's a fucking monster.

>>90038007
Oh yeah it's really good for something you just kinda came up with. Keep it up.

>>90037769
Mobsters aren't barbarians. Most mob killings are ambushes or use disproportionate force. Becoming a mob boss is more about internal politics and popularity than being a badass.

>>90038169
Thank you, anon. I try.

>>90038127
>Why wouldn't they do what The Joker says?
Why the fuck would they?
When did Jokers powerset become "Glorified Leader"? The premise that they all started obeying and following him because he's sooooooooo terrifying and a badass mastermind is stupidly absurd, topped off with the edgy act just to make him try to seem like a credible threat no less.

He's not a leader.
He's not a threat.
He cannot beat anyone there.
It's ridiculous.

>>90027436
Because Joker is directly threatening people who should be able to wipe the floor with him and only wins those events through editorial fiat.

>>90038127
Going with the GoT analogy, Joker is Ramsay Bolton. He's not some cunning mastermind or great leader, he just ambushed Psimon and beat him to death with a rock. His followers had to resort to raiding Luthor's camp.

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>>90038369
He is a leader. He runs a criminal outfit in Gotham City. He has employed dozens of henchmen over the years, concocted elaborate schemes and maintained the cash flow necessary to support them.

He may not be the toughest or strongest, but he is a leader. That puts him in a completely different tier than mooks with powers.

>>90030273
Super sanity was first brought up by a doctor in Morrison's Arkham Asylum. It wasn't a dream sequence but it also was just a theory.

>>90038805
>That puts him in a completely different tier than mooks with powers.

Yeah, as in not in their tier at all, as in well below their tier. As in he's dealing with a bunch of bastards with no reason to not splatter him for attempting to intimidate them, many of them having already dealt with otherworldly horrors, why the fuck would they be cowed by some mob boss in facepaint?

It's hard to be scary when you're a red smear because some bulletproof superfreak didn't want to put up with your powerless ass.

>>90038805
So what you're saying is that the Joker is no different than 90% of the Gotham villains and is outclassed by about 30% of them?

>>90024929

Shit writing, like everybody already said. Writers letting characters with "prestige" have undue importance in the story. Joker isn't even the most dangerous Batman villain (that's Ra's) and he's just some loon as far as the DC world as a whole is concerned. Nobody that he isn't capable of physically intimidating should be taking orders from him.

>>90032474
The thing is they only need to do this a couple of times before it becomes evident that killing the Joker only spreads the meme to someone else, so thereby giving you a water tight reason not to have Bats kill him.

>>90028127
Joker is actually as smart as Luthor, but he psychologically can't use it in the same way..
For example he could easily make a cure to cancer like Luthor... but if he did he would likely give everyone cancer and have only made one cure and tossed it in a room filled with millions of test tubes that looked exactly the same.

See DC intelligent villains have this thing where they have a mental block preventing them from using their smarts in a logical way;
Luthor- the need to always be on top/in power.
Joker- its a game/the punchline.

>>90029075
Twist the Joker as his last act saved the deli owner...
This would rip the Bat apart on the inside and piss off so many people in universe and out of universe.

>>90026010
So just get five, six, or more other guys all with vastly different powers that all work differently and draw from different sources and have them all attack him at once. That way he'll be less likely to have the right thing to counter all of them. Oh and before doing that have them test every possible combination of powers to make sure there's no powers canceling any other out.

>>90031794
...Okay I can buy into this. So basically he is a Horror Movie slasher character. Because thats basically how horror movie logic is;
HAHAHAHA
lets go check what that was
*instant regrets and so much running*

>>90032571
But think about it, if a joke character actually wanted you dead... or went insane.

How the fuck do you stop that? Bugs Bunny immortality in the hands of Bundy or some other serial killer I mean.

>>90033486
Yup thats The Joker alright...

Think of two threats to your life:
One is a superman who can nuke you from low-earth orbit in a millisecond,
the other is a madman who is only human, but smarter than you and almost anyone else alive, and will spend weeks torturing you in horrible ways before murdering you in the most painful way possible ... just for laughs.
Which way would you rather die?

>>90029975
For some reason I feel like Bats would do the same thing he did that time Joker got the Mask.

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>>90034022

>>90031689
So does that mean someone could become Penance Stare immune just by popping enough pain meds?

>>90034022
Any of those 4th dimension assholes?

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>>90024929
Joker is fucking terrifying, man. I'd be afraid of him too..

>>90033427
Fucking snyder

>>90044496
See the thing is I think thats what it is, the Joker runs on the shock factor.
When shocked by say an extreme act of violence you tend to shut down in that moment and are in flight mode, brain screaming to get away.
Then the one who is the center piece of the shock gives an order, and you feel compelled to follow it on the basic idea of;
I need to get away from here.

>>90024929
Because joker fell in a pool of acid and survived, fell down a working chimney of a factory and survived, killed a robin and survived. Nobody knows how or why but he should have died many times and just keeps coming back.

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>>90029975
That actually happened in Another Nail.

>>90037777
Great quad anon

>>90024929
You answered your own question OP. Joker SHOULD be dead but he isn't. That freaks everyone out because plot amour is alot more terrifying when the person with it is real and might kill you.

>>90027436
Onomatopoeia is a better representation of Anton for the sake of your argument.

>>90032719

He should be dead by all of the gun-owning family members of the people he has killed.

Americans are known for their drinking + revenge plots + polishing their guns

It would have happened like a year into his murder rampage.

>>90046214
>muh realism
Fuck off

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>>90034623
And the Penguin is fully capable of ANNIHILATING someone's life if he feels like it.

>tricked Mister Mxyzptlk and got his powers and almost destroyed the universe
>heavily implied that has ties to some chaos god or stuff like that
>can defy logic and survive wounds that would have killed anyone else a long time ago

yeah nothing scary about a basically horror movie villain

>>90037016
I like Joker because he highlights the greatest flaw of Batman. Some of Batman's villains are simple criminals who could "go legit" (in theory) if they were taught that crime doesn't pay. Some of them are driven by deep-seated mental illness that could be treated. Some of them are calculating visionaries who need to be opposed on the ground. But Joker? He's crazy, but he isn't insane (or to put it another way, he knows the difference between right and wrong; he just doesn't care about either), and he doesn't HAVE a goal he can be dissuaded from with the stick of the law. Every time the Bat faces him, he also has to confront the question: is all the effort of not killing really worth it? Wouldn't it be better for Gotham if he just wrapped his hands around that scrawny pencil neck and just SQUEEZED?

>>90039013
Powerlevelfags are the worst.

>>90026190
Good two reasons for lazy writers,but why the Joker want to be in charge if as a genius sadist could manipulate everyone and get the final laugh?

>>90043146
Riddler- Inferiority/Superiority complex means he constantly needs to use smarts to show off how smart he is in ways that endanger innocents. Obsessive narcissism makes him leave 'clues' everywhere to take credit and prevents him from making unsolvable puzzles.

Mr. Terrific- Showboat with narcissistic traits (although really, if you were Mr. Terrific, you'd have a high opinion of yourself too).

>>90043603
At this point you're basically being Batgod, but lethal/for evil. So Prometheus.

let's be honest people are only complaining because he is the Joker and a Batman character

>>90036817
Yes. My neighbor.

Every kind word from his mouth was obviously flattery to get what he wants and sounded so fake and insincere I wanted to strangle him.

He was later arrested for robbing some old woman and officially diagnosed.

>>90047001
>he was a psychopath!
>I just wanted to strangle him!

Mhhhh, really makes you think

>>90047026
Come on, anon. Don't tell me that having thoughts about hurting others is not perfectly normal as long as you don't make them a reality.

>>90032546
>>90031898
>>90028906
>>90028328
I thought the point of that was that he knows exactly what he's doing to the people he kills, he went through it, and their kids will go through it, and he'll eventually have to deal with their kids. Frank is a man made of suffering, who knows exactly what kind of pain he inflicts on others because it was done to him too, so it follows that he has nothing to be penitent about because he already is.

>>90028417
>holy shit did you see that?
>The Joker just ran into my hand so fast he impaled himself! What the fuck Bruce!
>aw gross he got joker blood all over my giant S.

>>90037356
>how hard is not to go bankrupt with our edgy comics and ending up being Nightwing's supporting cast?

>>90025120
Really? No one thinks that THE BRAIN is smarter than the Joker?

>>90025746
Yeah, but see, a guy with an ice gun could kill John Wayne Gacy like he's nothing.

>>90047239
>got joker blood all over my giant S.
thus Super Joker was born

>>90027997
>>90028225
How does any of that stop Giganta from stepping on him or throwing him?

>>90047310
other villains have morals

>>90034883
>>90034865
>>90034850
>>90034833
>>90034819
So the general idea is that Morrison set up some sort of entity that hides in reflections, and simply peering into it makes you a Joker? And that this somehow makes these people greater than they are because they're essentially a vessel for this entity in a way?

So these people die and then someone else takes in this dragon?

>>90024929
Has plot armor that is just as thick as batman's

>>90047612
I'm totally using this idea for my Rifts game. The players recently found a post-apoc super-hero esque universe where all the heroes moved the living civvies to a different planet and left all there worst villians. I'm gonna get them stuck in Arkham Asylum and do this shit to their poor little minds.

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>>90047343
>Giganta
>morals

>>90047612
it's more like the dragon is just very selective with who it chooses to corrupt. Joker wasn't dead when Pyg came onto the scene if I recall right, which means you can have multiple victims of the dragon running around at once

and the recurring idea of an airborne Joker plague pandemic can be interpreted as wanting to create as many potential Dragon hosts as possible all at once

>>90038805
All his status as a leader devolves from his circumstances. His power is that of a mob boss, it all stems from his subordinates confidence that he will be able to provide for them. Take away that circumstance and he's nothing, and his followers would desert him/turn on him if he failed.

>>90046770
>>90039013
Powerlevel is definitely relevant here. We're discussing a social hierarchy that basically stems from the amount of individual power its members have.

>>90025120
this a little. pretty much the same reason batman makes every other hero his bitch, he's just alpha

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>>90043146
>Joker is actually as smart as Luthor, but he psychologically can't use it in the same way..
>For example he could easily make a cure to cancer like Luthor..

What the fuck am I even reading?
Joker, as smart as Lex Luthor? Are Jokerfags and fanboys this dense?

>>90049320
oh yes because "le lex luthor is smarter than the entire planet put together" stuff truly is better

also Tim Drake is as smart as Lex too

>>90043845
That would be terrifying, except for the fact that DC has never explicitly explained Joker's powers or character like that.
If they did he'd basically be 'The Mask' or Beetlejuice, but it's not something they've established.

>>90044860
They should do a special run of Joker just on that with him discovering his plot armor with 4th wall awareness and going on an insane Rulk/Old Squirrel Girl styled rampage with it, defeating every top-tier villain and eventually cosmics because "Insanity powers" let him warp the plot in such an absurd way he trumps over titans and gods and no one in-verse understands why.

>>90046231
>muh realism
>Fuck off
Then kick Joker the fuck out of Modern "We're so edgy and realistic" grimdark DC you twat. It's modern writers that want realism and to convince readers how edgy and mature their stories all, but will all but ignore the unrealistic aspects of the Joker.

>>90049397
>It's modern writers that want realism and to convince readers how edgy and mature their stories all, but will all but ignore the unrealistic aspects of the Joker.

lol. as usual people complaining about things don't even read comics

>>90046732
This, I agree kinda.
But it makes Joker 'Only good' in the sense that he's a duo, with Batman. They're one character in their dynamic and only work with one another, but the Joker fails as a character outside of it.

He wouldn't work in say Marvel for instance.
He's like if the Toiletnator, or Buggy the Clown were taken seriously and considered the most terrifying thing ever.

For honest context the Joker should be on relegated of the Condiment King, but through meme force gets to play with the big boys because everyone 'believes' him to be terrifying.
>is all the effort of not killing really worth it? Wouldn't it be better for Gotham if he just wrapped his hands around that scrawny pencil neck and just SQUEEZED?
The Joker is sort of batman's ultimate moral safeblock. He knows if he draws the line at killing Joker, they'll be no line and he'll start butchering every other villain because why not?
This comic logic is pretty absurd however once you really think about it.

>>90049338
No but I mean we're talking about a man whose intelligence is his superpower. Lex Luthor can build armored suits to go toe to toe with Superman, apocalyptic doomsday devices and advanced tech just to further his agenda.

Joker plays around with chemistry sets and build acid flowers, which are basically glorified toys.

The difference is clear as day and it's stupifying to say that the Joker is as smart as someone who has to contend with Superman.

>>90049430
>Implying DC isn't tryhard nowdays
Denial isn't just a river you know DCfag.

>>90049524
there's nothing tryhard or realistic for that matter in any of the DC comics

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>>90026010
Isn't Joker suposed to be a super-genius able to put Bats in danger and also a pretty awesome hand to hand combatant?

If Batman can take Supermeta threats I don't see why the Joker couldn't deal with small meta tier villains or even scare them.

Don't get me wrong I mostly agree with >>90025013 but if we are going to start to point bad writting then Batman should be the most prominent case, not the Joker.

>>90049873
Batman trained most of his life to be good at what he does, Joker (depending on the origin) was pretty much just a normal guy/criminal who fell in a vat of acid

Considering it's a universe where a guy can get turned into living clay, a chemical exists that builds obscene levels of muscle mass in seconds, and a guy exists who was doused in cryogenic solutions that makes it impossible for him to live without a combination power suit/refrigerator...

...is it really so much of a stretch to say that the chemical concoction that the Joker fell into that originally spawned him, caused some manner of passive superpower in him? Like a super-presence or something that just sends normal people's danger sense into overdrive, preventing them from actually doing anything to challenge him properly.

>>90026190
Oh God kill yourself

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Insanity is a Superpower in the DC universerse. Just think about it. HOw in the hell would someone who's stock raving made even have time to workout, learn battle tactics, and other kinds of shit.

In order to make stories interesting they always tend to play "insanity" or "human willpower" as some kind of feat. So far it's worked for them.

Leave realism at home and just embrace the madness that is mainstream comics.

Joker has always been best written as the anti-batman.

You're never sure if he has figured out weaknesses or psychological issues you have but you know that if you do go against him he'll obsessively work to get revenge on you in the cruelest way he can think of.

Arkham Assylum was one of the best written examples with stuff like "ever hear the one about the henchman who came home to find his wife a paraplegic". No name henchman just slightly going against him and he's still obsessive enough to know how to hold complete power over him.

Joker never belonged in "muh world eater" scale comics
all the best joker stories are just personal existentialist stories with gangviolence and city-restricted terrorism
fuck, the whole point of joker being menacing is how grounded and real everything around him is and how far he's fallen down the fuck-rabbithole until that whole 'batman' side-character gets involved
dc should eventually realise that and quit trying to shoehorn into superhuman shit

>>90025837
The Joker might have power over the Lords of Chaos or he might be an Avatar for them like Doctor Fate and Amethyst are for the Lords of Order.

>>90050012
It would be easy to do that if the writers didn't push realism in their comics and try to ay with every panel "Look see the Joker's scary see how scary he is we're smart this is smart writing it's so realistic and incredible why aren't you taking us seriously?"

They want their work to be like the Nolan films but don't realize the Dark Knight trilogy were cop films with batman in them grounded in (some) reality. It's like a little kid who adds stabbing and blood and gut to his fic to appear 'adult' and mature but just ends up exactly how that would seem to anybody.

If Joker is so goddamn great, why he never step foot in Hub City?!

>>90024929
This is so fucking stupid its why I don't read batman shit any more

>>90027471
And replacing him with a worthless nigger kid.

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>>90038369
he used to be the 'Clown Prince of Crime', meaning that he was brilliant when it came to criminal acts.

He was also a very popular villain. This is why you often saw Joker in a leadership role in the past.

NOW, it makes a lot less sense because he's no longer a Moriarty type with a twisted sense of humor, he's a rabid dog. But he's still really popular and shit writers will point at those older comics to excuse their shit writing, willfully ignorant of the fact that they're writing a totally different Joker.

>>90050857
why did Al Capone never set foot in Detroit?

>>90050884
that's not even from a Batman comic

>>90036601
>Hell why'd they ever need the superman to stop Doomsday? They should've just sent in the Joker to use SOCRAZY XD powers on him and work his edgy magic and send him into tears.
Superman jobbed hard to the Joker on the Batman/Superman special from the DCAU. Even Lex Luthor jobbed to the Joker.

>>90024929
The Joker is supposed to have superior intelligence to nearly counter and kill most meta heroes.
Just haven't kept track of this new Joker.

>>90031857
No, he would get killed on the day he arrived in the MU

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>>90024929
The sad reality is that modern Joker is a moronic edgelord who can only possibly hope to maintain relevance through shock value, and since he's the most popular and persistent Batman villain, they have to give him the same kind of invincibility Batman has.

There was indeed a period of time where The Joker actually was not invincible and was completely fallible, which, among other things, was part of what made him an interesting character to watch. Unfortunately this is no longer possible.

When did the Joker become Batman's nemesis? And when did the co-dependent dynamic they have become so central to stories about them?

I just want to gauge some thoughts about the character in a real simple way.

Which is better?
>now THAT'S funny!
Or
>th-that isn't funny!

>>90051151
You can thank Ledger for the modern Joker.

>>90051213
The latter is far more satisfying and Arkham City was shit plot-wise anyway.

>>90051151
>>90051217
>t. people that have only watched BTAS