How the fuck does Mark Waid go from writing something amazing

Teenagers

>>89819080
Marvel.

>inb4 "SJWaid was never good"

>>89819080
pffff

>>89819080
>amazing like Irredeemable
Granted, I've only seen fragments, but to me it seemed like edgy tryhard bullshit.

>>89819080

It's very troubling, isn't it?

Then again, there was this guy I went to college with, and in 2003 or whatever he totally hated Bush's foreign policy. And last year he was all about Hillary, had no time for realizing that she supported Bush's foreign policy back then and still to this day would advocate pretty much the same stuff.

His 2003 self was smarter than his 2016 self. It's the same with Mark Waid, and many other people.

If you subject yourself to brainwashing (mass media) then you're that much stupider. The Waid of 2017 has undergone a decade of brainwashing more than the Waid of Irredeemable. It's that simple.

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>>89819181

>>89819181
At a glance it would look like that, but if you actually read it, its very good and you start to learn what made him into an edgy cunt

Champions is good

You guys are scared to get into it because of the memes

>>89819080
What's the premise for Irredeemable? Is that the comic with the guy wearing all the babies as armor?

>>89819235
I choose to believe you.

Therefore, the answer to OP's question would be "comic book writer senility". It happened to Claremont, it happened to Chaykin, it will happen to everybody you like.

>>89819295
Basically a superman like character who turned evil, but the story starts with him at the evil stage and you see more about his heroic phase as the story goes along, he doesnt wear babies as armour but he has killed babies, its really good

>89819295
yeah, that was a side story featuring the Batman and Robin of this universe

>>89819384
Cant believe I missed that side story, now I want to read it

>>89819384
>>89819295
whoops

>>89819240
/co/ isn't #woke enough to handle it.

Irredeemable was not really amazing, though it was enjoyable.

Champions plays on his main weakness though: he literally can't write teenagers. Impulse was a fluke.

If you would have posted the actual good "I" book he wrote you would be more believable.

>>89819080
Irredeemable was Evil Superman #1,312. It pretty much wrote itself. Team books are harder to write.

>>89819157

There it is. Waid needs some of that Rebirth. Shame he can never go back.

>>89819529
It probably helped that Impulse was raised in a virtual reality setting in the future, so he's not like your average teenager. He also was younger and less out of touch back then.

>>89819529
>he literally can't write teenagers
I've heard good things about his new Archie. Was that just shilling?

>>89819080
Why'd they make Vision's daughter gay again?

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>when you're so butthurt about DC editorial that you jump ship to Marvel and forced to spout cucky liberal bullshit because they'll fire you if you don't

He's such a bitch when it comes to MUH SUPERMAN holy shit

People are less capable of writing the older they get and the more they write. Writers should have a forced retirement age and amount of work.

>>89819642
How are they supposed to make a living in their old age then?

>>89819240
Hi intern how's that $0.00 a month paycheck coming along

>>89819611
She isnt gay, unless thats something that happened in the latest issue, which I stopped reading halfway through cus it was basically just FUCK DRUMPF the comic

>>89819642
Nah, some writers can keep going or come back from a bad work. Alan Moore for example went to pretty bad sex stuff but bounced back recently with Providence one of the best Lovecraft adaptations ever.
There are other examples. Morrison and Gaiman haven't really fallen to crap yet though their output is very low.

>>89819080

He went full retard. He thinks we're in a far right facist state and white men are going to dust off their SS uniforms and start up another genocide

>>89819808
He's not wrong.

>>89819642
>>89819762
Why does this happen? Do they use up all their ideas? Get stuck retreading old territory? Let their politics get the better of them or are their politics too contrary to the youth/common people? Do they just become wage slaves pumping out the same product to the same audience? Do they get a winning formula and flog it to death, never looking for new or dynamic ways to do things?

>>89819418
it's called Insufferable

>>89819635
>>89819808
Why does /pol/ have to shit up every thread in this goddamn board? No one cares about his fucking politics, go away.

>>89819240
>Champions is good

No.

Politics aside it's bad. The characters are all wrong and the dialog is written as if the champions are a hivemind

>>89819886
People use up all their ideas. Nobody is an endless fount of good ideas, it's impressive to have one genuinely good idea, but the comic industry is designed to milk people of every last concept until they're running dry.

>>89819899
His politics were literally vomited into the latest issue of Champions, the whole comic was about his political views

>>89819899
Because Champions is "politics" the comic as of late?

>>89819899

Nothing I said was /pol/ you idiot

>>89819870

Yes he very much is.

>>89819955
And? You can still discuss his failures as a writer without going "lololol trump librulz cuckcuckcuck"

When he was at Image and DC he was a conservative-republican

At marvel hes full blown SJW liberal

How did /co/ go from a very gay board to a Nazi loving board?

Mark Waid finds a way to write the same Superman story every few years.

Between these periods of time, he half-asses it and coasts off of "Kingdom Come".

>>89819988

It's annoying lately. Knee jerk reactions towards ANY negative thoughts towards "progressive" politics no matter how slight = /pol/. How are they any better than the ACTUAL /pol/ posters who have knee jerk reactions towards any depiction of gay people in comics? What, you expect people to agree with you 100%, THEN You're not /pol/?

No wonder people hate and are afraid of ANTIFA. If you see everyone who isn't you as Nazis, and want to hit every Nazi you see, that's a dangerous mindset.

>>89820098
>implying Kingdom Come is good
Kingdom Come coasts off the art of Alex Ross

Waid was never a good writer. He was always a Marvel writer at heart.

>>89820024

The current political climate directly effects Waid and how he writes Champions. He has said so himself. It's impossible to discuss the state of the book without acknowledging that.

>>89820046
Don't worry, /co/ is still gay as fuck

>>89819295
No, that's Insufferable.

>>89820119
>ANY negative thoughts
>dude he thinks the right is a bunch of Nazis
>yeah he's such a liberal cuck xD
>not /pol/

>>89820119

Lately Antifa are behaving exactly like the SA did. It's very worrying

>>89820169
>these words hurt my feelings and you shouldnt use them

>>89820119
Don't bring this shit into this thread too.

>>89820131
Cool console war, bro.

>>89819899
>Why does /pol/ have to shit up every thread in this goddamn board?

Because the PC Police and SJWs made everything, comics, video games, movies, even Dungeons and fucking Dragons, everything, about racism and sexism and homophobia and equal representation of all demographics (except white males) and it pervaded the mediums we loved for decades, poisoning them in ways they may never recover from.
They made everything about politics, and you guys let them, you who stood by and refused to call them on their bullshit, and maybe even supported their ideals at first.

They started a war on us and our funnybooks for no reason other than they are so privileged and pampered that they had so little to take offense to that they got up in arms about manchildren in underwear punching each other through buildings.

Well fuck you all. I was a fan of this medium before you decided to get your knickers in a twist over it, and I'll be here when you're gone, picking up the pieces to make something better.

They poisoned the well, and we all have to drink from it now, why wouldn't we warn others? It can happen to your fandoms too.

>>89820169
>dude he thinks the right is a bunch of Nazis

Wait for you actually saying it's a reasonable belief that the entire right are Nazis? You're insane

>>89820046
I don't think you understand the massive appeal of uniform fetishism within the gay community.

>>89819080
Ideology is a hell of a drug.

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>>89820223
That's funny. You're funny.

>>89820046

>Nazi loving

Its alarming that you think /pol/ is Nazi loving. Just because we hate the overbearing SJW trend at Marvel doesn't mean we love Nazis

>>89820208
>console war
it's not a war, DC won, that's it

Waid is a shit writer cause he's a marvel writer.

>>89820306

He's not wrong

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>>89819240
Thanks for the hearty chuckle you've provided me.

>>89820223
when did people on 4chan become such victims?

>>89820369

This site was started for anime lovers. So day one

>>89819584
His Archie is shit. The art carries it

>>89820331
While I dont like Marvel right now with the overly progressive bullshit narrative they have, I have always been a fan of Marvel, but now I want DC to continuously outsell them HARD so they may end up not shoving their politics into nearly every comic they make when they realise how many sales they are losing

>>89820198

Not quite. They're behaving like the very group that lead to the creation of the SA to combat them in the first place. One evil created to fight another evil.

Basically, I'm more afraid of the possible creation of ANOTHER group made to combat ANTIFA. ANTIFA needs to be stamped out before that happens.

Time to hide the thread.

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>>89820322
You're either one or the other, my friend. It's only black and white these days.

Shades of grey are gone.

>>89820348
Comics are still primarily created by and star white men

I like how cucks on /co/ like to bring up being /pol/ as if its such a horrible thing. It would be like saying "oh wow /tg/ is here, shut the thread down" So what if i'm from /pol/? I can't post here about comics?

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>>89820331
>it's not a war, DC won, that's it
Sure thing, bud. Is that why Marvel is still the biggest comic book company in North America? Or why their movies are 100x more popular than DC's?

>>89819899
>pancakes.png

Why is anything leaning anywhere away from the left considered /pol/shit now?
Are people actually afraid of the thought that their shitty agenda is having a negative impact on the medium?

>>89820424
In their minds /pol/ is full of people who have no other hobbies or interests.

It's that simple. It's rule one of fighting an enemy: you dehumanize them.

>>89820306

And you sound like you're glad that this happening. You sound like you'd rather have everything we love ruined just because you hate /pol/. Why do the REST of us have to put up with this crap just because you want to see /pol/ angry?

>>89820451
>Are people actually afraid of the thought that their shitty agenda is having a negative impact on the medium?

People will never be able to realise this, so they will call anyone who doesnt love it a /pol/tard

>>89820438
The movies are Disney properties, not marvel comics properties.

Please fuck off back to /tv/

>>89820451
because /co/ is Marvel central. Anything that shit talks anything bad about Marvel is /pol/.

Here's the truth /pol/ has better taste than /co/

>>89820322
You guys made a thread on /co/ with a guy wearing a Swastika hoodie being a good person and the feminist being horrible goblins!

>>89820502
>You guys

You have no idea who I am

can we just go back to arguing about Mark Waid

Kingdom Come is shit

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>somebody says 'fascist'
>thread derails into /pol/ fearmongering

God Damn could this place be any easier to troll?

>>89820476
It's not ruined though, I enjoy plenty of comics nowadays. Granted, mostly not from the Big Two but that's not really an issue for me, same thing happened during the 90's.

>>89820520

I suspect that it derailed BECAUSE of Mark Waid's fans. You know, just to distract us from the fact that Mark Waid got shit because he let his politics get in the way of making his work. And his politics just so happen to be the kind of politics that the derailers agree with.

>>89820531

I didn't think this would happen when I said fascist. I just brought it up because that's what Waid feels now.

>>89820520
I havent read Kingdom Come, how bad is it anon

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>>89820223
Saved.

>>89820520

It's hard to talk about Waid without talking about politics now

Waid's slide into leftwing lunacy has been a long time coming. Remember in the mid-00s when he made Superman a vegan because he saw auras? He's no longer the guy who re-read his silver age comics in the mid-90s and realized he loved all that corny stuff. If he reread those books now, all he'd see is the racism and the sexism and the fucking white men everywhere.

>>89820550

When you put it that way, that IS true. Comics as a whole aren't really ruined. Unless you subscribe to the big two or American Indie comics.

What gets to me though is that just because a comic is left leaning, it shouldn't go all the way to the left to the point where it becomes unbearable.

>>89820612
It's ridiculously easy, since Champions has plenty of flaws that have nothing to do with politics

All lefties, like Waid, are lunatics

>>89820640
>Remember in the mid-00s when he made Superman a vegan because he saw auras?

Why a vegan? Why not just have him not eat at all since he doesn't really need to

>>89820640
"Fucking white men in western countries?! What the fuck!!!"

>>89820642
The bigger issue is that there's no diversity of opinions in the big two, especially marvel.

Name me a single hero that's right wing and has it portrayed as a good thing.

>>89820678
He eats for pleasure.

>>89820642
Sure, but that's mostly Marvel and Boom right now. There's plenty of other fish in the sea, and this is a fad anyway, if you seriously think people like Alonso actually believe in this shit you're in for a surprise. Ten years later, this'll be just a bizarro episode we'll all be laughing about.

>>89820661

The problem is, his politics are a BIG part of that reason. How can anyone NOT talk about it? It's a huge part because now only cares about sending a message and not telling a good story. It affects every part of the work, down to having all the characters sound exactly the same because of the need to spread a message.

>>89819080
Dunno what happened to the guy. I'm not bothering with Marvel anymore but I checked out his Black Widow and it's such a massive disappointment.

Clearly they're doing it Marvel Method and Chris Samnee is doing a phenomenal job but it seems like every single speech bubble Waid forces in is strangling the life out of the brilliant artwork.

>>89820640
>Waid's slide into leftwing lunacy has been a long time coming. Remember in the mid-00s when he made Superman a vegan because he saw auras?
That single handedly made it hard for me to enjoy Birthright.

It was just so fucking stupid. Especially since he'd logically also be able to see plant life with auras.

>>89819886
It's usually because writers think that seniority makes them immune to editors telling them what to do. Modern Claremont sucked because he and Marvel gave into the "best X-Men writer" hype and let him do whatever, even though the fights between him and Shooter was what gave us stories like Dark Phoenix. It's why early Bendis is more digestible than modern Bendis. Why JSA-era Johns is more fun to read than the Johns who wrote Justice League. Because they eventually became their own bosses, and that amount of power means you can do whatever you want without an editor telling you this sounds stupid.

>>89820731

It varies between writers. Some do it because it's a fad sure, but Mark Waid and Nick Spencer? They're the true believers, and that's what makes it annoying.

To put it another way. I HATE Lisa Simpson and I agree with her politics most of the time. Same with Brian from Family Guy.

>>89819080
Irredeemable was shit

>>89820731
I dunno about that, anon.

This isn't really a new fad. It's been brewing since the 60's, where Marvel established itself.

Seriously, up to four generations of this shit now.

>>89820807
At least with Nick Spencer he created Hydra Cap which is amazing

>>89820476
If your love is character focused then you had this coming, pal. Read better comics.

>>89820807
They won't be writing for Marvel forever. Waid is bound to get bored eventually once he writes for every property he's interested in and he'll probably move on to some creator owned stuff, more personal stories.
Spencer is too much of a firestarter to last long at Marvel. He'll probably get fired at some point, and his Image gigs will be all that's left of him since DC obviously won't take him in.

>>89820463

It doesn't help your argument when it's all most of you talk about. You can watch a thread go from comics to right left shit flinging that has nothing to do with the original post every time. That's what's annoying about you guys. Stop acting like victims and show some self awareness.

>>89820845
So you're telling me comics have always been left-leaning? Then what's the problem then? You should be used to this stuff right now, unless you only read 50's DC comics.

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>>89820694
Marvel's currently running Cloonan doing a not-particularly-interesting Punisher, a character who progressives like Ewing and Whedon hate.

>>89820939
Why do you think Spencer will get fired? His Steve Rogers Hydra run right now is well received

>>89820968
I'm not saying comics have always been left leaning, but Marvel has been. But they had actual battles to fight and points to make back then.

Ever since the late 90's they've had nothing, but they're still pushing like they do.

>>89820949
>It doesn't help your argument when it's all most of you talk about.
Speak for yourself. I don't bring up politics until it gets brought up.

>>89820984
Ewing is pretty clearly saying that other people are politicizing what the Punisher does and THAT'S what's bad, not the Punisher himself

>>89821055
Ewing's mouthpiece is saying right there that just because Frank doesn't think he's being political, doesn't mean he isn't being so. Everything is political to progs.

>>89820989
Already told you, he's too much of a firestarter, he's burned too many bridges, and his comics don't sell enough to justify his employment. He won't get fired today, he won't get fired tomorrow, heck, he may not get fired until a couple of years have passed but he WILL get fired, mark my words. Either that or the rumored 2018 Marvel shift will make him leave.

>>89821040

You are a minority. Hang out on a weekend and you'll see what I'm talking about

>>89820989
Lack of professionalism.
You can be good at your job, but if you act like Spencer while representing your company, they'll fire your ass.

>>89821040
That's not true, they weren't pushing this political stuff before Alonso came on board.

>>89820949
>You can watch a thread go from comics to right left shit flinging that has nothing to do with the original post every time. That's what's annoying about you guys.
This is 4chan you mong, threads get derailed all the time. Besides are you REALLY complaining about people having differing opinions and arguing about them? Because that's really petty.
>That's what's annoying about you guys. Stop acting like victims and show some self awareness.
That's some quality projection right there.

>>89821099
>to you it's not political
>but to others it is

>>89821230
If Ewing wasn't one of those "can't be neutral on a moving train" folks he wouldn't be putting progressive messages into every issue of every comic he writes.

>>89820223
>>89820597
This is going straight on r/4chan!

>>89821133

No faggot. I'm saying repeating the same drivel over and over is getting tedious, right down to using the same excuses over and over. But of course that means Im stepping on your precious opinion.