why are fight scenes in american action cartoons so boring

One considers thousands of years of martial arts, while the other are overpowered bar brawls.

One because American writers have this ludicrous obsession with "realism".

Two is tropes. The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.

> american action cartoons
Such a thing exists? What, are you talking about the character comedies with occasionally highish-paced drama aspects that are made for kids or are you talking about the slapstick comedies with flashy toy commercials pasted inside them made for dumber kids?

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Because burgerland can't do anything right

>>89818300
America has lots of actions cartoons what are you talking about

There's Ben 10 and...and...ben 10 and TMNT and....

>>89817966
Because you're an autistic weeb jhonny that's why.

>>89818422
so its my fault america cartoons suck at action

>>89818474
Yes now repent and go watch steven unirverse or something.

>>89818589
>steven unirverse
They make people watch that in hell as a form of torture.

>>89818589
I thought weebs watch Dragon Boring Super or something?

>>89817966
They aren't.
https://youtu.be/3VB_vjVxcic

>>89818636
It's either that or your mind numbing rice nigger shows that comes in 10 diffrent variations of the same story.

>>89818689
Sorry but that was pretty lame if thats the best you can come up with

>>89818724
Such as?

>>89818724
I'd rather watch anything other than Steven Universe.

>>89817966
I like this take on The Boy in the Striped Pajamas

>>89818845
kek

>>89818793
The whole shonen genre for example. Watch that.Hell even the seinen genre that is more mature is boring as fuck.

>>89817966
why dont weebs stay on their own board

>>89818867
So predictable lol.
Thanks for proving you're just another idiot that watched 3 anime and thinks thats all the entire medium has to offer

>>89817966
Because the point of cartoons is to be cartoons, not autistic evil action shows.

>>89818188
There's many realist Japanese animators, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvx7p6-lABw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVr0tmlnRyI
This is a nice and interesting set of videos, I learned a bit.

>>89818880
The Moeshit rots their minds, leaves them incapable of higher level thoughts.

>>89818880
They tape their eyes back to make themselves more asian and sometimes they click the wrong board because they can't see.

>>89818895
Thanks for providing the evidence that when people call your bullshit you have nothing to say.

>>89818913
live action*

>>89818929
Realism=/=high frame rate animation anon.

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>>89818944
Im not the clown that said the entire shonen genre are just 10 variations of the same story

>>89818880
This is an anime website kid.

>>89818977
Did you even watched the video?

>>89819070
You could probably say the same about any story if you use broad enough strokes, heck 10 is probably being generous

>>89818188
>The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.
fucking Hercules. fucking Samson. Fucking Achilles.

>>89818188
>The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.
And that's why we have a shit ton of cape action cartoons

>>89819070
Look at narutor,one piece,jojo, dbz,bleach,drifter,hellsing,kingdom,berserk,the fate/night thing, fate/stay thing and every show from the 70's onward before that it was disney and warnerbros rippoffs with some gems here and there.Face it your medium is shit the rice niggers can only do the same shit until it devolves into a soup of garbage

>>89818346
He-Man, my bro. the 200x version

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>>89819180
Even if that's the case, its not like it ultimately determines a show's quality. It depends on execution after that, and that's where it surpasses its western counterparts.

>>89819133
Yes and the statement is not wrong.Realism would be closer to ralph bakshi and even that is not correct.

West should just stick with comics. Whenever something tries to play with animation, the show gets blasted into canceltown while garbage like SU and AT is hailed as saviors of western cartoons.
Animation is just a straight up nonfocus in the west now. Watch the million of autist cartoon reviewers in YT and not a single one goes into detail about animation techniques. The interest just isn't there.

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>>89819260

>>89819292
The same goes for western animation weebniglet.

>>89819100
A website with clearly defined boards for clearly defined topics they specialize in. If people can complain about threads going /pol/ then similar can be said about /a/utists going here and talking about their animes.

>>89819265
That was over a decade ago, when there were actually action shows being made.
I was talking about something more recent

>>89817966
>compared to anime


Like where a dude charges his super punch so that they can have an excuse to have him still for a few seconds instead of animating and then instead of drawing a background he just gets a plain white background with motion lines so they don't have to draw what's behind him either

Fuck off weeb Jap-cock worshipper

>>89819365
Western animation's execution of any trope or theme used in anime is always underwhelming by comparison, so yeah

>>89819292
oh yeah I'm not disagreeing with you or anything, just making a side point. I find that the underlying themes in good anime tend to be more complex and interesting than in good western cartoons, mainly because in the west cartoons pretty much all have to be comedies

>>89819405
Nice, you just got something that only happens in casual shonen shit..
You really pwned OP

>>89819454
Seinen does it too.

>>89817966
because not everything needs to be exaggerated as hell like anime

also time and money, cartoons here are business first nowadays

>>89818769
your lame

>>89819313
The video is about Iso's "full limited" style, that plays with realism on a low framerate. It's not realism but it plays with it.
This is why I asked you. And you didn't watched the video, you responded a hardly a minute after I posted.

>>89818188
>Two is tropes. The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.
>Superhuman warrior
>Not a foundation of western fiction.

Greek and Roman heroes like Hercules, Achilles, and Samson.
A large portion of the Gods and Goddesses in ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, and Norse mythology.
Characters from other regional epics like Gilgamesh, Beowulf, and sometimes King Arthur.
Superman, and by extension most other super heroes that precede him.
Even some of the early sword and sorcery and sci-fi heroes like Conan the Barbarian and John Carter respectively, would qualify somewhat.


Various characters throughout history, all portrayed as having superior strength, speed, skill, cunning, and (In most cases) intellect over the lesser men around them. All of them warriors in one way or another, and all being what you'd consider superhuman in varying levels.

>>89819405
That's like representing cartoons by the Garfield movie

Go look up Hunter x Hunter sakuga (particularly Gon vs Hisoka 2011 ver) or pretty much any of the fight scenes from One Punch Man

>>89819507
"low framerate" He's still using 24 frames.

>>89818188
>The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.
I doubt OPM would exist in its current form without the influence of the American superhero.

Curious, but has Japan made a revival of an anime that actually has people excited?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSrv_n4tw7w

Even in anime these days the actions not usually that great. Lots of flashy stuff but very little impact.

>>89819492
Isn't most seinen non action? When I think of seinen I think of stuff like Mushishi.

>>89817966
Every anime isn't OPM quality

>>89819585

Seinen is anything from Mushishi to K-on to Jin-Roh. It's too broad to say anything concrete about it.

>>89819070
>make a great funny show with 10/10 alpha character
>kill him off 1/3 of the way in
>show never recovers

How they so stupid?

>>89819555
I imagine Dragonball Z caused a decent amount of hype if you count that as a revival of Dragonball

>>89819664
The show is better without him. More interesting to watch a boy grow into a well balanced man than it is to watch a retard meathead.

>>89819555
well Anime doesn't get cancelled for starters

>>89819537

>b-b-but it's not like that in Chingchong-no-Yamamamadingding

Who cares faggot

>>89819599
For all the ones that are though, thats still more than what America has on their plate

>>89817966
Of course you have them!

Check out all those cartoons made in China, Korea and Japan!

>>89819754
>meathead
>beta confirmed

Simon grows up to be a pussy. Kamina would never have allowed himself to jailed. He would have given some inspirational speech and told that guy to fuck off.

>>89819599
Yeah, OPM had a shit budget imagine one with a big one.

>>89819839
>implying anime=cartoons
Im not gonna have this debate with you.

>>89819555
Here's a few examples:

Digimon Tri
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood
Jojo's Bizzarre Adventure
Hunter X Hunter
Osomatsu-san (fujoshi were excited before it even came out)

>>89819843
Kamina got beat up like a fuckboy and was put in jail in the like the first episode

>>89819843

Simon grew up to be just as strong as Kamina but with a brain.

Kamina is a retard. If a man not being a retard makes them a beta then I don't know what to tell you.

Jackie Chan complained that Western directors don't take full advantage of his action comedy skills and that editors would make a quick cut every time he hit someone instead of letting the scene play out, making it look worse

America just seems anti-action in general, why do you think all their action heroes are superhumans who never get hurt?

>>89819977
Kamina had a brain in that he knew he didn't have much to give except for bombastic bravado, he knew all along that Simon was going to be the real hero

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>>89819555
Dragon ball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S15KfEjZaCU

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>>89819925
And he busted out.Didn't sit around doing nothing while everyone was getting fucked.
>>89819977
>Kamina is a retard
Jesus fucking christ. I didn't realize so many people were braindead to the entire point of the show.

>>89817966
Cultural differences

Japanese work ethic demands more time and work be put into this kind of things and they come out with more detail and polish more often.
But if I had to think of the biggest reason it would be that Japan doesn't have soccer Moms who think there children will be scarred by any depiction of violence which is why we have much more of a focus on family friendly comedy and comedic violence than serious brawls. Can't have little Billy trying to punch a hole through his brother.

>>89820087
>I didn't realize so many people were braindead to the entire point of the show.

Assuming you're >>89819664 I'm not sure how anyone could have missed the point more.

>>89818689
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIj7gIDFDe4

one of the best battle scenes in all western animation

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Modern western cartoons care less for action because they are aimed at kids, and cartoon channels think kids should only experience comedy shows. The only action cartoons are on 'mature' blocks, like Adult Swim, and even then they are a dime a dozen. The few shows that are aimed at kids that do do action and fighting never focus on it and have the fights either unremarkable, extremely short, or played for laughs. Unless theres a resurgence in action cartoons for all ages in the west, only Europe and Japan will have actual action cartoons/anime

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>>89817966
>american action cartoons
Do they still make those?

>>89819555
Japan doesn't do revivals, because rarely is a show cancelled without completion, and the few times they "revive" a franchise is for really old shows, and they either do it with a new flavor (like all the new takes on Mazinger for example) or continue the original story

>>89817966
Cost.

1) Japs work for slave wages. 2) Western cartoons are less willing to have entire episodes of standing around just so they can save their budget for the fights.

>>89819664
It's a show for boys/men, anon. Most people didn't watch to mastrubate to husbandos.

>>89819664
The entire point was that he was holding Simon back ya dingus. And Simon became a 20/10 alpha in the end.

Americans just can't into action. They are so against vulnerability it's hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFIxLCJifw

>>89820367
Here's my rebuttal
1)Budget has no signifigant impact on qaulity

2) Western cartoons may not waste frames having characters stand around, but instead rather spend it on talking and making unnecessary body movements. Fights are an afterthought even in action shows ironically.

>>89820367
Not to mention Japan has a much bigger animation market, it's as interlaced into their culture as the cement in their buildings, thus they c an do so many different genres, not just action. Where as the west, mainly America, clearly doesn't give much of a shit about animation unless it's CGI, and the only animation stuff channels and theaters air are comedies or kids movies, since studios rarely take risks for animated movies.

Man all the /a/utists in this thread must be really bored with their shit season.

>>89820446
>bad guys just wait their turn to get beat up and fight him one by one
HATE

>>89820446
Have you seen Daredevil?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B66feInucFY

But you do have a point, rarely do action scenes in American films or shows involve realistic vulnerability for the protagonists, especially if the protags are famous action stars.

>>89819548
No anime would, Superman is the origin and inspiration of all modern superhuman fiction.

>>89820494
>shit season
>more variety and action in 1 month than the west has put out in 5 years
YOU guys are the ones that should be bored. You are so starved for something new, you actually think Steven Universe is the savior of western animation.

>>89820501
It's a small hall, they can't rush in all at once swinging away and attacking, or else it will end up like that bathroom scene in Jack Reacher

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>>89817966
anime usually saves the entire budget for the fight

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>>89820746
Only on weekly kids cartoons and Toei stuff. Some of the big time studios have small shows that don't plan to go on for a long time and they can afford to put animation into everything, look at Little Witch Academia

>>89820746
you think the animators all just get bigger paychecks or something if they do the fight scenes at the last portion of the episode?
lmfao

I've been rewatching Samurai Jack and it has awesome action.

>>89818188
>Two is tropes. The trope of the superhuman warrior just isn't a part of the works that formed the foundation of western fiction.
Anon, superhuman warrior is the foundation of ALL fiction.
Gilgamesh was the first superhero, and even had a rival-turned-friend in the form of Enkidu. All these "shonen" tropes people complain about are literally older than the dirt you walk on.

>>89819793
I know what he said, those are all normie Toonami animes.

>>89818689
Best example you can find is from more than 12 years ago?

>>89819515
I think you're forgetting the fact that the main character being better than those around him isnt unusual but when nearly all of the main characters are some type of chosen supreme sun and moon god reincarnation and not someone whos just better than the opponent like sci fi heroes its kinda takes away from a triumphant win

>>89819231
>>89819239
>>89819515
>>89819548
>>89821051
>>89821051

While myths of superhuman warriors are found the world over.

However they didn't lead to western creative producing the kind of insane wire-fu action, that we see in Asian fiction.

Does Aragorn ever swing his sword so hard that he generated a shockwave that blasted orcs away?

Did Conan ever run so fast that he can tread on water?

>>89819843
Just bravado doesn't move the world, anon.
The point of Kamina dying is to show that your guts can't always keep you from failing.
The point of Simon snapping back after is that people don't have to be in the flesh to inspire others.
Kamina had almost no spiral energy potential, but he pushed the world more than any drill or giant robot could. People confuse his character with this "hurr fuck the rules MAN! IMMA PUNCH YOU" persona, while he's mainly a mentor and motivator, and he adopted Simon, not out of shame or pity, but because he knew his potential. Just take both of the "GRIT THOSE TEETH" scenes, they are not out of vitriol and agression, but to snap people out of despair.
Simon doesn't even grows to be a pussy, he's the one who pierces the heavens, he's the one who pilots the robot, he's the one who challenges the god to claim back the love of his life. He's the one who wins. People get pissed because he didn't used spiral energy to bring back Nina and became a hobo, while he promised the Anti-Spiral to not misuse it not even an episode before, and judging by the looks of the epilogue, that's exactly what happened.
This show just seems nothing but people missing the point.

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For some reason, wonder woman keeps getting all the best fight scenes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vBRl_jT9z0

>>89821647
deleted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n079MNojJJc

>>89821501
>missing the point.
They're anime fans. What do you expect.

>>89819599
Even OPM isn't OPM quality. This is from the best looking scene in the show.

Westfags will never have a Fooly Cooly.

The manga style that influences anime is very visceral, with a strong emphasis on movement and fury.

The action is presented as a thing of beauty, whereas in western animation it's presented as mundane.

>>89821488
>Did Conan ever run so fast that he can tread on water?
no, that was Jesus.

>>89820516
Die Hard is one of the exceptions. It actually subverted the "indestructible hero" trope. The walking on glass scene being the most potent example.

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Why do we have this thread every week?

>>89821855
>What is Space Dandy?

>>89822142
Because western animation is in a dire state, so this sort of questions are bound to pop up.

>>89818880
I'm not much of an anime guy but a lot of time those "Why isn't it like my japanese animes?" threads lead to a genuinely interesting discussion of animation process and industry. I'd take those over "look! something with a smudge of /co/ relevancy is being SJW!" threads any day.

>>89822211
Sssssuure

>>89822142
Low Energy Bait = High (You)s

The artist for OPM has stated one of his influences was America comics

There are several reasons

1. Action Cartoons are no longer popular. An animator that hones their skills on animating complex fights won't be as rewarded as someone who focuses on other more demanded aspects.

2. Action in Cartoons is very neutered. If it's aimed at children you're forced to skirt a bunch of rules and regulations about what you can show characters doing or not doing. This makes it frustrating to create a good scene because when you just want to have someone throw a punch and hit someone else you rarely get to.

3. On the opposite end of the spectrum, once a cartoon is no longer aimed at children and marketed at adults, what is prioritized is violence, gore and shock factor. Having to be excessively violent, gorey or shocking also hampers a fight since you're forced to make sure it's bloody enough. They want blood not a well thought out duel.

4. Robots are in a decline in popularity in the US and Japan. Robots (giant or otherwise) have always been the means in which Western Artists have been able to actually have a violent fight in a show aimed at kids. Samurai Jack was a big example of this, and so was Symbiotic Titan. (Here's an example in Japan animation in how violent a fight can be with robots while not being gorey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek-V0xQzkwI) Sadly there are a lot of people with brain problems nowadays who don't like robots. It'd be easier to just euthanize all people who dislike giant robots fighting but that's not possible

In short : The money and market don't exist so the shows don't.

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It's hilarious

This fight alone shit all over any capeshit "fight" in 20 years

https://youtube.com/watch?v=yFbPbiBhipw

>>89822686
>when the music kicks in
Fuck me, that shit gets me pumped up like nothing ive ever seen

>>89822686
These obscenely fast fist flurry attacks are my favorite trope

>>89822686
All Might vs All for One is going to glorious

>>89822189
Eastern.

>>89822648

>In short : The money and market don't exist so the shows don't.

I think it's all about creating the right example really. Everything you listed is valid and I agree but I disagree that the DEMAND isn't there for a Western show that has Eastern-style quality.

It's just a matter of someone creating the right product. I wish it was me. I wish I knew how to do it.

>>89822142
>>89822211

I think it's a valid discussion and you never know what could come of it. Maybe the ideas we talk about here will transfer to the right minds and someone will pick up on it.

Like I said in another post, I actually think there is a market for it and something like this,a western produced animated show on par with anime can and should exist.

>>89817966
Well several reasons

One is that animation, especially good animation, is expensive and in the West action cartoons are generally associated with children (obviously with notable exceptions) so there usually aren't massive budgets for them

The same applies for anime, a lot of animation in anime for television (again, with exceptions) isn't very good, because animation quality is sacrificed for detail. There is a strong emphasis on still images, key frames, panning shots, zooming in and out, etc in order to cut costs. Usually the characters' lips don't synchronize with their speech either

tl;dr they're actually both shit because good animation is expensive and time consuming

>>89824568
>One is that animation, especially good animation, is expensive
Not trying to discredit you, but I see everyone say this and I can't understand how its expensive.
How does the process wind up costing so much? Unless a cartoon uses A list celebrities every episode, and has to pay record companies to use licensed music I find a hard time believing its expensive.

Is it expensive in a "cost/reward" or marketing sense?

>>89820234
Shaggy shouldn't have become a jedi

>>89817966
>>89824568

Good staging and use of space, creative choreography, solid sense of impact, and use of particles are matters of technical skill and knowledge. They don't have much to do with "expensive animation" which I take you to mean high number of frames.

Overall, the Japanese are better in these areas, period. Whenever this topic comes up, Genndy's work gets posted. They don't have fantastic animation either, they work because he understands drama and staging.

>>89825149
And some people seem to think high FPS instantly means good animation.

I've seen multiple anime gifs posted that had lots of frames to them, but they still looked bad because there was no real sense of momentum, the movement made no sense, they were just swinging and jumping and hitting, but it looked wrong.

>>89817966
i agree but only if you are talking about old anime
anything current sucks, even [current anime of the season]

>>89824647
No, it's just plain expensive to produce.

Young Justice had no A-list actors, no licensed music, nothing that should have brought it up, and one season was 10 million dollars.

>>89824647
It's expensive compared to a cartoon like SU or regular show or adventure time.
Those shows are puked out for a couple of bucks and kids still like them, so from the studio's perspective, why pay for a better quality product when people eat the shit?
Taco bell still uses grade D meat cause people still buy that shit. They don't have a financial incentive to try harder.

>>89821488
>Does Aragorn ever swing his sword so hard that he generated a shockwave that blasted orcs away?
No, but the Hulk can do that with his hands.

>Did Conan ever run so fast that he can tread on water?
No, but The Flash can.

>>89825285
>one season of Young Justice was 10 million dollars
But how??? This boggles my mind how shows with mediocre animation can cost so much.
Comparably speaking, Americans don't even animate any more, and have koreans do it supposedly because its cheaper.

And then you have studios making shows with much better animation on spent budget next to nothing.

>>89825149
But anime for tv usually sucks at those too. How many have you seen that resort to panning shots, zooming in and out, speed lines, reusing the same animation, narrating over a still frame, having episodes where people just stand around and talk, etc? They're the same strategies used over and over again. In some extreme cases animators will flat out just not animate anything.

There are creative ways to work around budget limitations while maintaining quality, sure. But those aren't very common. In most cases budget will inevitably become a major factor.

>>89825317

this isn't really the problem

those shows are only cheaper to produce because they are CN's own original shows

the problem is licensing is expensive so networks only ever want shit that is already super popular
translation: capes

capes have simply become too dominant in the west

>>89822293
That denial. Do you seriously look at animation today and say "Yeah, this is great!"
What the hell would even cause you to say such a thing?

>>89819515
>samson
>greek or roman

lol

>>89822293
You're kidding, right?

Because of the way cartoons are usually done over here with boards and keys being done on this side and then shipped to Korea to be finished. In Japan it's far more common to have important stuff like fights all done in house while the regular unimportant stuff is sent over (or still done in house). Plus American animators are not taught how to make interesting fight scenes like Japanese are among other things.

>>89825496
Animators get paid. There are two ways to go about getting good looking cartoons, more details or more frames. Both mean more time spent animating which means you have to pay more. You also have time constraints.

>>89825809
There aren't any professional animators left in America, its all storyboarders.

>>89825860
You still have to pay the Koreans.

>>89825561
>But anime for tv usually sucks at those too.

I'm only talking fight scenes, not entire episodes as a whole. The propensity of anime to allocate more of the budget to more important sequences is actually something I would like Western shows to adopt as well, but that's a different discussion.

Good anime examples can be found handily. There are barely a handful in western animation.

>In most cases budget will inevitably become a major factor.

I would never claim otherwise. But the things I mentioned are cheap to implement. There's little reason not to do them, except for the knowledge gap we have.

I'm going to say something that won't go down well here, but since we're already offloading so much of the animation work to overseas studios in Korea, we ought to have them handle more of the storyboarding and visual design aspects as well. They have a better grasp of these things, they know what they are capable of, and we should not do that work here where it's dumbed down. Legend of Korra basically gave Studio Mir full reign on choreography and storyboarding, and the animation benefited from that.

>>89820244
That shot looks like it was done by TMS.

>>89825895
I think i get it now.
Despite being paid less than mcdonalds workers, the animators in Korea put in so many work hours they end up needing to pay them by the truckloads any way

>>89821488
You were proven really wrong. Just give up.

>>89822686
I really hate that anime have to make things dark when stuff starts to get flashy these days. I know it's for seizure protection or something but I doubt it actually works.

>>89825317
>Those shows are puked out for a couple of bucks
>Uses examples of shows where that's obviously not the case
I know it's bait but if you're trying to be informative you should consider what you say.

>>89825149
And all of those things are things that Japanese animators are taught in school or in training. They take a lot of inspiration from traditional cinema to make things realistic. Western cartoons hardly care about these things and usually want to make things flat because it fits the style or they simply don't care.

>>89817966
budget mostly
anime can get big budgets, cartoons are generally seen as too childish to invest much money in

>>89826688
Lol reality is, its the complete opposite to what you said

>>89818329
except make overwatch i guess

>>89819383
Samurai Jack, Voltron, Castlevania, JLA

Budget really isn't that big of a deal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRmx9Rf7NVM

>>89820839
No. What he means is that they save their money by farming out unimportant work to cheaper animators / subcontractors who do a shoddy job with it and pay the highly skilled animators to do the A material as they demand a higher price.

It's really common in shit like Disc Wars (and make no mistake, Disc Wars is complete shit, Wasp waifuing aside). It's a toy commercial used to sell Marvel brand merchandise (ala Transformers) so of course they want to keep the costs low. This means most of the animation and writing is turgid but they still need it to work as an advertisement and as indiscriminate as kids are, it's hard to get them to watch something that's completely devoid of merit. So they'll shell out for a nice looking action scene now and then to entice the kiddies to watch.

It's not an accident that a lot of shows like that tend to have nice looking first and last episodes and total junk throughout most of the rest of the run.

>>89819383
>>89826795
Young Justice

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>>89826688
Anime is far, far cheaper to make than even the cheapest Western cartoons. A lot of it has to do with how little Japanese animators are willing to work for and how hard they are willing to work themselves (typically until they burn out and are replaced by someone younger)

>The pay/hours change depending on who you are and what your job is. The best position (which only the best of the best can manage) is "freelance genga-man aka freelance key-frame animator" ... you can demand your own prices and actually take time off after project if you want. For everyone else (and definitely for inbetween artists like me), its as bad as the rumors. I worked at a slave-labor-inbetween-studio called "nakamura pro" for 8 months before moving onto Pierrot which is where I am now. At Nakamura pro we were paid $1 per drawing, meaning you earned between $5 and $25 a day. At Pierrot it`s way better... but still pretty bad. 1 drawing = $2-$4 .... so on any given day I can earn about $40. (HORRIBLE by anyone's standards.... but, if you want to work on cool anime, there's not much choice.)

>...Each month at Pierrot I earn about $1000. ...... each month at my previous "slave-labor" studio, I earned about $300 a month...

Quote is courtesy of Henry Thurlow, a New Yorker who actually made the trek to "live the dream" of working as an animator in the Japanese industry. $1000 dollars a month is less than someone working a 40 hour / week minimum wage job in the States and keep in mind that animators aren't working a 9-5 Monday to Friday job, they are at their desk until that shit is done which means lots of late evenings and weekends.

>>89819843
Kamina would have landed the punch

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>>89819555

The new Code Geass season announcement was pretty hype.

>>89819775
Funny joke

>>89827299
Wow...anime makes weebs, that desperetly want to make anime, so theyll work for slave labor which puts out anime that makes weebs who'll work for slave labortomakeweebswhowantanimetoslavesweebsmakemoney

Brilliant

>>89817966

how many cartoons murricah and europe united can do in a year?

how many anime shows are made only in Japan with the help of Korean and Chinese slave animators?

there, you have the reason.

>>89822686

I want to see United States of Smash animated.

one day

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>>89822686
>weebs are this retarded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM7LsOXQDk

>>89822686
>This
>Good

Bait?

>>89828067
This is a pretty exceptional cut.

Because cartoons are usually for kids

and because in japan they have a lot of talented animators that are paid in scraps

>>89828067
Did Thor just destroy half of New York City?

>>89819664
That is exactly how I felt when I first watched that show back in the day.

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>tfw the last western action cartoon got shit on beyond belief

>>89828373
Wasn't the animation made in Japan?

>>89828067
to bad the series never had anything that caliber in the rest of its run.
and I mean even that aint that great

>>89828373
It got shit on because it was shit. It had great fight scenes and animation though.

>>89819555
I'm still holding hope for a proper conclusion for Panty and Stocking. I remember hearing rumors that Gainax was about to make a non-Pachinko related announcement for the show but I don't think anything ever came of it.

>>89828533
It was a comic

>>89820746
I didn't know Mega Man 3 was getting a remake!

>>89828475
It really wasn't. It just wasn't as good as TLA book 2-3.

>>89828582
It was pretty bad in a lot of ways. Maybe not trash but not great or even good.

>>89820446
Am I the only one that dislikes both renditions? The first version there's multiple times where the guy should have had the absolute shit beat out of him, especially when he was down on the ground. The hits also seemed to lack weight and the mooks looked like they weren't even trying. I will give it some props for the vulnerability, but the choreography was lacking. The remake also suffers from shit choreography but it's the opposite problem where the hits are over animated. The main guy also takes hits like the goddamn Terminator. Both versions annoy me due to how the mooks mostly just attack the guy one on one despite surrounding them.

>>89817966
Basically, it's a suffering economy. Elevens are willing to work absurdly hard for shit pay. Gaijin don't like getting exploited like that. So, elevens are willing to invest significantly more suffering and the consumer reaps the benefits, while whitu piggu aren't willing to suffer so much and western works suffer as a result.

You can't really blame western animators for wanting to make a real livelihood, but man does it suck as the consumer.

Anime tends to have better cinematography than just 3/4th view and face shots.

>>89817966
At least part of it has to do with source material. 85-90% of anime now days is an adaption of either a manga or a light novel. Since high paced cinematic fight scenes dont really work in still picture or written word form they use other sorts of fights. It almost works like a rpg fight, going in turns. For an example see jojo, most of the fights work in terms of 'I use my stand to do this, but he counters with this, so then i try this other thing and it works'. Well when that gets animated it gives it a nice 'flow' to work off of and if the studio is good they fill in the gaps. If the studio is bad you get shows where the fights are almost power points and people stand around yelling a lot between every single punch.

>>89817966

same reason why fight coreography in US movies and Comics are generally lacking in comparison, they don't want to put the time/effort/money in to do it well.

>>89826748
But that's a shit game with terrible aesthetics.

>>89828542
Wait, really? That's a disappointment.

>>89819070
but
they are

>>89827688

Fanservice to weebs, to slaves, to gold, oh what a beautiful waltz...

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Different priorities, different culture.

They're not (all) really boring compared to anime, anyways, it's just liking them more because you like anime more.

>>89818184
>One considers thousands of years of martial arts
Hmm...
>Naruto clones himself create a ball of wind
I think there's something else at play here

>>89821488
There's an interesting video examining the difference between western and eastern views on power.

Eastern is about inner power, earning power that flow form inside of you. That's why Marital artists can shoot balls of energy.

Western is about power in the therms of objects or a separation of yourself form your powers. A bit like picking up a magic sword or a gun.

The difference is philosophy.

>>89829265
See if this were anime it would be a lot more dynamic and fast.

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>>89829335
Don't be ridiculous.

We just don't have fighting-based shows.

Instead of the shows being about someone entering the world of martial arts, revealing themselves to be the chosen one, then everyone falling in love with them.

We have someone who's just a good guy and usually joins the good guys side. GI Joe wasn't about warfare. The Adventures of Jackie Chan wasn't about martial arts. Justice League isn't about the skills or even the powers used to defeat baddies. Those were just things that happened in the show sometimes while the shows were about other things.

Though with everyone wanking over anime we may have more of an audience for the former, and there's some shows that tried to do that.

>>89829361
Saturday morning sonic?

>>89829426
Is this a new show?

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>>89829493
Newish.

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>>89829035
But that's wrong. Apologize to Mei

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>>89829493
It's Justice League Action.

Best Wonder Woman.

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CG shows count, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaVYu0LPsSU

>>89822686
>I will punch harder than him with my blurs and actually show me hitting him with one more shot

I do like Bones and how they adapted season 1's fights, but they don't really have me on the edge of my seat since people know the more intense fights happen later in Shonen and whatnot.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCzKdKH0VY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DtTQ-8npkWY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKaxB-H1Ngw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mCQiu9X2mM

>>89819515
>Superman, and by extension most other super heroes that precede him.
>precede

>>89822686
looks like they just stole that from Hellboy 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1HyTONAT8

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Too many action shows in the past decade (cartoon/anime/live-action) use shaky cam. It's annoying and obviously done to hide that they can't choreograph consistent speed, weight, or staging.

Sometimes I wish it was 2003 again.

>>89822686
Flurry of hands is such a lazy way to do a fight scene. I hate that technique. It's the animated version of shaky-cam-style "fight scenes". Give me clear cinematography that shows the damn moves.

>>89819664
the 3 or so episodes after he dies and everyone tries to pick up the pieces are the high point of the series

>>89827299
>HORRIBLE by anyone's standards

Here in the third world, $40 usd is a week/half-a-week's pay.

Jappos should check their privilege.

>>89830259
int he third world, that can get you a lot
in the first world it's allowance

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Anime fight scenes get on my nerves because they are so formulaic and restrictive, no matter what a direction one takes.

Can't draw characters with varying body types in combat while using different unique weapons? Just draw everyone as a skinny person with a sword.

Want to show off that someone is fast? Make theme turn into speedlines and just draw frames of them punching with no in-betweens.

Can't think of a special power? Simply draw them shooting generic lasers. All you have to do is draw colored lines and exploding buildings/mountains.

And then put effort in body movement only when one particular character is dominating the fight.

>>89821001
>I've been rewatching Samurai Jack and it has awesome acti
I strongly disagree. SJ was at it's best in later seasons with 1-on-1 fights or hand-to-hand combat. Anything else wasn't really fun to watch. Both SJ and SBT seemed to have suffered from Genndy never moving away from the Hanna Barbera type of animation which is more fitting for fast-paced slapstick comedy than action. I think the action would've been better in those shows if he went back to what he was doing in the original Dexter's Lab pilot.

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>>89830533
Be honest. You haven't seen much anime.

>>89817966
Great example you used, that show

>>89818895
He's mostly right though. The 'maturity' of seinen is greatly overrated and most of the shows in the genre are every bit as childish as the shows made for younger audiences.

>>89819340
>SU and AT is hailed as saviors of western cartoons

They are though. I mean, are people here really so stupid that they actually think of Rebecca Sugar as a SJW?

>>89817966
The "art of the fight" is a really Asian thing.

Westerners more or less are just kill them and be done with it, at least culturally throughout history.

Notice how western swordplay and in particular fencing is more or less completely ignored in comparison to the glamorization of Eastern martial arts.

>>89822686
Also this.

By the same studio

>>89825927
Please don't tell me you're 'him'. You're right though.

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>>89817966
Simple. In Animation schools (which I think, correct me if I'm wrong) in the west the schooling is style and substance. Western Animation has, for almost all of the modern era, has focused on the child-teen demographic. The best subject to fit both is COMEDY. Western Animation's focus has always been COMEDY.

Meanwhile, in Japanime land, their focus has largely always been towards all ages, mostly young teens to late teens. With them growing up and comedy not AS interesting anymore, and with Japan being so strict and Anime so OUT THERE, the STYLE that Japan has always focused on was what would appeal to young thinkers in their hormonal changes. Violence, Story, and being "Different". Comedy doesn't belong as much there.

I'm not spouting this as fact. This is just how I theorize it. Never really cared enough to go indepth research on it.

>>89830856
damn it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VopWPhozmNw

>>89822686
All Might is up there for fav US heroes now

>>89828373
That's Korean animation though

>>89817966
western animators need to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ

>>89830937
No it's fucking not. It's American animation. All the important parts where done in America

>>89822686
If they cut out that fucking mid-fight talking, possibly slow down the fists so that we 'see' them instead of blurred half-hand shaped blobs, and slow down arms so their not tentacles.... then I'd love it.

I HATED the trope Anime has of SUPER FISTS going so fast you grow eight pool-noodle arms. If I can see the hits land, and if I am not sidetracked by people going "OOOOH" 'AAAHH!?" "DESUUU!?" "MY GOD HIS POWER IS SO HIGH! I'M ELABORATING WHAT EVERYONE IS THINKING" then I can fully appreciate it.


So until anime stops being a shit with these tropes, then even if I hate Capeshit fights, I'm still giving points to super hero fights in the Western Hemisphere.

>>89830789
Whoa buddy, that's some dangerous shit coming out your mouth, you might want to go to the bathroom before speaking again.

>>89830962
>he doesn't know what outsourcing is

>>89829361
Yeah but a lot of animes make things dynamic and fast but at the cost of choreography. All flash, little substance.

>>89830962
Nigga, look at those credits. Americans make the script and make a design and storyboard, then korea does the rest. Same with Japan.


Korea is the land of animators. America and Japan are the land of Designers.

>>89817966
samurai jack is pretty cool

>>89830979
Out of curiosity, what do you consider a good fight scene, both in live action and animated terms?

>>89831055
You are so fucking wrong. Please never say anything like this ever again so people don't believe you.

>>89828582
It wasn't as good, but people act like LoK and ATLA were in completely different ballparks in quality and forget how shit ATLA got.

LoK fight scenes were good though. They get unfairly criticized as punch bending, when really it's just a different style of choreography.

>>89831045
I don't know about that. Anime fight scenes are usually all coreography. I don't know what makes you say otherwise.

>>89817966
Well I mean they invest much more in that industry and it's part of their culture now. Not only do the Japanese watch action cartoons and such, but the whole world does. However our cartoons aren't like that. The whole world doesn't tune into shit like Avatar or something like that, enough for it to really become something creators pursue. Most of the world fell in love with our comedic lovable cartoons like Mickey Mouse and Looney Toons. Which is why we still make shows like that.

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>It's a nobody understands animation and they just spread misinformation instead thread

>>89831096
A lot of anime fight scenes are just explosions, lasers, and fast flail-y attacks that look more impressive, but isn't that deep technique-wise.

Like a Michael Bay film.

>>89818188
>One because American writers have this ludicrous obsession with "realism".

There's a cartoon about a fat white kids living in a beach club house with personified gems.

>>89831156
>The whole world doesn't tune into shit like Avatar or something like that
I don't know what you mean by that. Avatar did pretty well worldwide.

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>>89831163
>its a cartoon vs anime thread

>>89828067
All Might vs Nuvo was still better IMO, much more hype especially with the fact that All Might is dying+losing his abilities yet still pulls off that and saves the day against what is his Doomsday. Who the fuck is Gravito? Also he could have flung Ant Man, Hulk and Wasp into orbit and neutralized them instantly.

Also TV show vs movie which is what the Avengers EMH pilot was.

>>89831084
>>89830962

The animation was done by Studio Mir.

http://www.studiomir.co.kr/en/

And yes they did fight scenes.

A Japanese studio handled first half of season 2

>>89831245
>what is his Doomsday
No way. It's just a genetically engineered dude designed to be tough for him but it would have been a piece of cake in his prime. Either way it's not nearly as important as doomsday.

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Most action anime is a promotional tool for action manga, which have high action fights because of that's the nature of comics, but tend to be more elaborate than the stuff in American books fights because they come out at a rate of 80 pages a month instead of ~30ish.

Most American action shows are...non existent, now, but historically they have not been direct adaptations of such rich source material. So there's no direct mandate to live up to a certain quality of fight scene in the source material. Most of the time they just do whatever, and if it turns out good, then fine.

Then there's the notion that cartoons are for children, and the weird hypocrisy that Americans have when it comes to violence in media. Violence in kids shows is bad, but you'll make kids shows based on R-Rated movies, and sell kids toys of M-Rated video games? As a result, you tend to have a lot of weird kid gloves on with action scenes that makes them seem downright nonsensical at times. See the original TMNT cartoon for the best example of this.

But personally I think the lack of popularity comics suffer from in America also means that people in America have a poor grasp on the nature of what cartoons are. Consider the bizarre craving for "photorealism" in spite of the fact that the this medium is almost the furthest thing from that. Think about the threads where people complain about low-detail art for background characters and in zoomed out shots. Think about how people will not bat an eye at a movie that is over 50% CG, but will roll their eyes at a cartoon because it's "gay and fake."

I chalk it up to a lack of literacy regarding the artform, same reason Americans used to think that Chuck Norris produced good fight scenes

>>89831280
>designed to be tough for him but it would have been a piece of cake in his prime
It took him more than 100% of his power to knock him away...and he wasn't actually hurt by the blow. If not for the distance of the mental control IIRC he would have just come back and murdered All Might.

>>89831179
In certain countries it actually did poorly. I know if a lot of Asian countries they stop airing it because it had low ratings. That's why there's subs of it for the 1st season but none for other seasons.

>>89822142
weebs vs cucks? yeah everyday

>>89822142
I rather these than "Marvel won't stop bitching and crying about trump" threads.

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>It's another weebs acting like their wapanese entertainment medias are better than that of the whole USA (world) thread.

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I don't like these threads because the same shit gets repeated over and over again, but I sure will take any excuse to post animation webms.

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>>89829930
>Best Wonder Woman
but that's not loli wonder woman

Didn't Wakfu also have pretty good fight scenes?

>>89831685
Too bad there's hardly any attention towards her.

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>>89831738
only the enlightened know of her presence

Can someone remind me why do we tolerate weebs on this board? They keep shitting up /co/ with threads like these and post their 6 FPS action animation webms like they have some point to prove when no one else takes Jap cartoons seriously as an art form.

>>89831857
/a/ is too focused on discussing anime from the latest season so the "second-degree" weebs have to find other places to force discussions.

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>>89831857
>Jap cartoons seriously as an art form.

I didn't realize any type of animation was taken seriously as an art form.

>>89830954

Western directors in general need to watch this. Great stuff.

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>>89831857
I'm not going to lie.
Gundam basically ruined space fights for me forever.

>>89828373
>muh spirit beams
>every style of bending is boxing now because muh 20th century
>remove all the unique, well researched martial arts aspects that made TLA's choreography so entertaining to watch

>>89818300
What about Justice League, that has some decent action.

>>89831084
in your face faggot

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>>89817966
Because different people enjoy different things.
Even in Colosseum there was two different type of fights:gladiator fights,with trained professionals who would fight "entertainingly", and slave bloodsheds.
Personally, I would kill for actually realistically animated sword fight without retarded anime influence; where bastard sword feels like a bastard sword and not a toothpick,where fighters don't sperg out their monologue mid battle and so forth.

>>89822686

>not Sabat

No buy.

>>89830919

All-Might isn't American though, he's just a Westaboo.

He's Japanese, and just so happens to love America. I was confused to.

>>89831595
>>89831609
>>89831620
>>89831637
>>89831647
>>89831657
>>89831674
>>89831713
>>89831736
>>89831773
>>89831785
>>89831919

>All this fucking Gundam stuff
>some of it even modern Gundam
>not a single gif or webm of the Gouf Custom fight from 08th MS

You are a fucking retard.

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>>89832351
that's too obvious.

>>89832383

Too obviously the best? Yeah, I know.

>>89824647
Hand-drawn animation has enormous costs in terms of man-hours, and CG animation has enormous costs in terms of render-time.

There's also a huge need for extensive pre-production, because God help you if you get all the way to your final renders (in either medium) and discover that the work that you poured months and months and thousands of dollars into is riddled with flaws. You need to iron that shit out at the drawing board.

All in all, it's an enormous up-front investment for any business to make, so most executives settle for what's safe and reliable to make money and recoup their costs. If you want to see the kind of diversity in subject matter that anime has, but in western cartoons, you're going to need a lot of big companies to take a lot of big risks, just to prove that the market exists.

And hahaha that's never going to happen because being brave and taking risks in a capitalist system is a death-sentence.

>>89832392

That is only part of the problem.

The larger issue is that in Western cartoons, the only people who have any sort of pedigree (outside of literally one guy) only know how to animate comedies. They couldn't block a fight if their lives depended on it.

Meanwhile the Eastern studios have literal decades on how to properly execute a good fight. That's why Gumball borrowed Madhouse (IIRC) to make that fight scene for them. They didn't know how.

Genndy is the only dude in the entire Western hemisphere still around that has a proven track record when it comes to fights. So it's an even bigger gamble than before because if you want to make an action oriented (or action-drama) cartoon in the west, you need to take a chance on a guy who very probably has never made one. The guy's from the B:TAS/BB/JL days are gone, but Genndy retained his ties with the animation studios he worked with on Jack, Star Wars, and Titan.

Even DC's animation studio doesn't know how to block out a fight. They rely on smash cuts, gun play, and direct lifts from the comics to do what they do now.

>>89817966
American's don't like fighting.

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>>89832388
meh

>>89831423
Who is the cuck though?

>>89832579

>"I know what I'll do, I'll post one of the top three fights! That'll show him!'

Nope, sorry. Gouf Custom #1, undisputed champ of all time.

>>89818880
Because this is 4chan, newfag

>>89819369
Do you complain about that someone uses anime reaction image too

>>89829740
Mei has some great "aesthetics", alright?

>>89820494
Well i am only watching this season 2 shows

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>>89832606
it's a greatest fight if you've never watched any other gundam.
Plus 08th MS Team is trash. That fight is one of the few good things to come out of it.

>>89817966
Japan simply has more steam behind its tv animation industry, with the huge volume of shows that get pushed out each season. /co/ is lucky to get, what, 2-4 new shows per year that are worth talking about? Eventually by sheer probability, the cream of the crop of their talent pool was going to be stronger as a whole.

But the west also has the bigger movie animation studios and a much more robust live action industry, so I don't see why anyone on in this thread would feel so defensive over OP's question, even with how it's phrased.

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>>89822686
>talking while fighting
>maiu greatestu technique:LOTSA PUNCHES!!!
>He just "piledriver"s him while they rapidly change view angle
>Then slowmotion punch
>Under semi-epic music

>This is enough to make weebs wet
Literaly slasherloving-tier fags.

>>89832689

I've literally watched every Gundam up to Wing, I stopped immediately at Wing because of how fucking trash it was.

Everything after is pure garbage too. No, Unicorn is not good. Sorry.

>>89832689
>Plus 08th MS Team is trash.

Blasphemy.

>>89828988
>nowdays
Anime always has been most of time adaptions of manga or something else

>>89831576
Well 2D porn in better in japan than here

>>89832710
>>89832702
It's garbage.
Romeo and Juliet in space garbage

>>89832784

Cool, that's every Gundam.

>>89831857
Probably because this is 4chan? Every board has weebs because this is 4chan you newfag

>>89832702
>Everything after is pure garbage too.

Shit taste.

>No, Unicorn is not good. Sorry.

That part is true, but shit taste still.

Why are we on /m/ suddenly?

>>89832793
Now you're not even trying.
No wonder why you like 08th-MS-Team.
Or is it simply because it features a bunch of "grunts"? Either way you gotta be pretty shallow to think 08th is any good.

>>89817966
this probably the best fight from an American cartoon:
CLASH: Superman vs. Captain Marvel
https://youtu.be/6BJ1-trrgqc

>>89817966
because cartoons are a secondary medium in the west, most effort and budget goes into live action

>>89832823
Ah the little flashes of light because they couldn't show punches connecting but are fine with buildings collapsing around them

>>89832823
The one where Graviton fights the Avengers in EMH is pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyM7LsOXQDk

>>89832203
Have you ever seen Berserk?

>>89831857
Why can't we be friends?

>>89832937
Only the CGI Version

>>89818300
RWBY is the closest thing you can get to an American anime with anime tropes and anime fight scenes.
yes i know how bad it is

>>89832937

>wants realistic sword fight
>recommends Berserk

My nigga, no.

I know what you are going to say, that one small fight with Guts on the wall in the (second?) movie shows semi-realistic fighting. But that doesn't make up for how unrealistic the rest of it is. And I love Berserk, I love Berserk so much that's the only Manga I've ever actually purchased.

>>89832203
>where bastard sword feels like a bastard sword and not a toothpick,where fighters don't sperg out their monologue mid battle and so forth.
Virgin Witch Maria is pretty solid about that.

>>89832650
That's a different and you know it.

I was talking about topics and discussion matter, not images.

>>89817966
Samurai Jack and Last Airbender have fight scenes that blow 90% of anime industry out of the fucking water.

Those 10% are a logical dozen because of how massively produced these cartoons are in Japan.

>>89819292
what is this from?

>>89820066
Gods was fun, then they ruined the characters in the next movie.

Dragon ball is only good when they realize putting a personality on a villain makes up for their shitty protags.

>>89833208
Yeah, take it from my man Skallagrim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tFOJFyTl1U

>>89825927
Studio Mook (now Mook Soratia) did Swat Kats, not TMS.
>>89826795
But with the exception of SJ those shows are garbage, that new Castlevania show will most likely be done by the cheapest flash studio in Canada they can find and JLA is not a true action show.
>>89827299
He was talking about Nakamura Pro's D-Unit who payed alot less then their A & B-Units and it got so bad that the emperor closed down not only their lower end units but also everything under key animation as well so Naka Pro ended up having to start outsourcing inbetweening, shooting and ink & paint over to Rough Draft (under their Orange banner) in Korea as was the case with TMS' Blue Jacket.

At TMS they make at least $13,200 a month, a quarter of what Disney feature staff get paid but still leaps and bounds above the rest.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-20/entertainment/ca-9288_1_donald-duck

>>89822686
Honestly, All Might vs Nomu left me underwhelmed and only half-hard, because All Might keeps losing his signature shading.

>>89833532
Dude, we debunked that.

>>89827299
At that point why the fuck doesn't anyone just get a bunch of them together and break off? It's not like you wouldn't find a market at least in the states.

>>Japan

>>89833551
Who are we and debunked what?

>>89833533
Looks like one of the naruto movies.
Probably the first one.

>>89828373
Because it was shittier than the original story-wise. It looked really good, but it was literally le steampunk fanfiction from reddit tier story.

>>89833532
>Samurai Jack and Last Airbender have fight scenes that blow 90% of anime industry out of the fucking water.
Dude come on.
I mean I like those too but Jack reuses frames like there's no tomorrow and lacks quite a bit of fluidity. Last airbender was certainly getting there but didn't really do anything dynamic if you get what I mean by that.

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>>89833600
Actually no

>>89833612
Actually yes

>>89833544
>He was talking about Nakamura Pro's D-Unit who payed alot less then their A & B-Units and it got so bad that the emperor closed down not only their lower end units but also everything under key animation as well so Naka Pro ended up having to start outsourcing inbetweening, shooting and ink & paint over to Rough Draft (under their Orange banner) in Korea as was the case with TMS' Blue Jacket.
You jokin' right? Last I checked...

a) Nakamura Pro still has an In-Between unit (and is still staffed with Japanese animators, Thurlow's just the only non-Asian to have worked with them). I've seen their name on shit as recent as Akiba's Trip and Little Witch Academia TV.
b) Blue Jacket episode 6 was co-produced, as well as in-betweened and painted by Studio Myu, with Nakamura Pro only doing (uncredited) key animation.
c) Where the fuck does it say they and Rough Draft even struck a deal?
d) Thurlow's not exactly wrong. The industry's pretty bad no matter what studio. I can see where his complaints are coming from. Though admittedly, any company Disney's willing to work with is clearly doing something right (And I'm still wondering how They considered Sunwoo a decent enough company to constantly work with, much less an anime outsourcing company like Nakamura Pro)

>>89833627
Actually no

>>89833638
a)They must of rebuilt those units with new management/better pay to get the emperor off their back.
b)Rough Draft was used on alot of Blue Jacket episodes handled by Naka Pro.
c)Rough Draft uses the name Orange when doing projects for Japan.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=14724

d)Sunwoo got better by the likes of Goof Troop and Darkwing Duck but they're a far cry from the likes of TMS and Disney Japan/Australia.

>>89820446
Ever watch John Wick? The greatest action film in nearly a decade

>>89822686
>same punch over and over again
This is how anime has gone to shit. I miss when anime was good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9lDe6lEAM4&t=29s

>>89831723
with assistance from japan

>>89833920
One episode.

>>89833785
Anime was never good and you really cant compare OVA to TV anime

>>89818647
Dragon Ball isn't weeb you dumbass, its not Pokémon, but just as mazinger Z or astroboy is just too big and mainstream

>>89833699
a) Nope, some of the in-betweeners there have worked with them for over a decade at this point. Others are simply newcomers, it's how the industry works. Thurlow (Who can probably confirm my info, seeing as he worked for Nakamura Pro) mentioned that most in-betweeners just don't get credit. Doesn't matter where in Asia or for what show. To paraphrase:

>One guy I worked with who's been a douga-man his entire life showed me his portfolio and I swear this guy worked on every single Gundam series and every single major anime title since the mid-1980s. Not only that, but he worked on Disney's Gargoyles, Darkwing Duck, and a ton of other Western series as well-- all the while going largely uncredited.

It's how it works, and they're still doing it to this day.

b) Again, where's your proof?
d) You're kidding, right? Sunwoo still looked like shit during that era.

>>89819793
>Get proven wrong
>Backtracking

Just take the L, anon

>>89819260
Says the guy from cartoons and comics that probably only watches caoeshit movies.

Anime is shit, but capeshit is worst, there's a reason /a/ is more respected than /co/

>>89817966
I feel like american shows just focus on season after season and try to stretch it out as much as possible, lots of filler episodes and other time wasting gags because they potentially want the show to go on forever.

Great anime runs like a single season, maybe two and its obvious where most of their budget went. They even go back in the dvd releases and make it look better sometimes.

File: then and now 2.jpg (232KB, 850x2012px) Image search: [Google]

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>>89834077
Are you saying that Akihito did nothing to fix Naka Pro and they're still treating their staff like shit? Because last I check he thrashed Naka Pro because they were under paying their staff/treating them like shit and had to fix the studio himself.

b)Again, Rough Draft uses the name Orange when doing projects for Japan.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=14724

d)Sunwoo did not became shit until Seth Macfarlane shown up, and they ended up getting replaced with Digital eMation anyway.

>>89819369
/co/mblr crying is pathetic tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZPSPFNupZw
SHAFT makes great fighting scenes when they give a fuck.

>>89834167
And? This is still /co/, not /a/.

>>89833970
bullshit rules. tv anime used to have good action too, look at Hellsing or Trinity Blood. there is nothing good like that anymore