So is Wally destined to be just another Titans member from now

If dick could get a solo then Wally should too or at least be a regular on the flash comic

>>89809793
>the most important rebirth character
Kek. Rebirth was used as a chance to bring him back and shut his fans up.

He's really not that important to what's going on.

>>89810662
He is literally the only person who has any idea what is going on and Titans is the only book hinting to more rebirth stuff

He's in a book that I enjoy despite the shitty art. I'd like for him to get a solo or at least a mini too, but I don't really see anything wrong with him being more associated with the Titans than the JL. But I also never cared about him as a JL member much. I don't see it as something crucial to the character.

>>89809793
His continuity is fucked up, so is Barry's. He'll be probably saved from Titans once Rebirth is over.

They're never going to get rid of Barry, are they?

>>89810813
Of course not, Johns' ideal is having every generation hanging out together.

>>89810734
Yeah this why Batman and Titans are going to crossover in April to uncover the mystery of Rebirth. Oh wait, it's FLASH and Batman.

>>89810837
Which takes away the point of a legacy character.

>>89810944
That doesn't go anything in my post

>>89811482
>Titans is the only book hinting to more rebirth stuff

>>89811432
Generally I don't agree. Playing off the idea in a different personality is the point of a legacy hero. You don't need to replace the original or previous incarnation for that to happen. And replacement isn't really good in the long run because it limits potential storytelling.

In this specific instance Barry did need to be gone in some sense for Wally's specific personal story to play out, but we are not rehashing that. Wally is long past that insecurity and has grown into being his own man. Barry being gone would add nothing at this point.

>>89811514
Yeah and Batman won't for another 2 months

>>89811711
He shouldn't be gone but the title should be transferred to a new speedster instead of the Barry wank that is happening

>>89811720
Of course, let’s ignore other books like Superman, AC, Tec..etc who all were hinting to more rebirth stuff.

I'm means, Superman is literally having a crossover next month about the topic. But Titans is the only book that has rebirth hints.

>>89811820
As of right now, yea.

>>89811766
I wouldn't be against that, though I think more than anything Wally just needs his own book regardless of whether it's pushed as the main Flash title.

Its unbalanced to have someone as powerful as wally with street level side kicks

>>89811891
Are you an idiot or something? Tec was literally hinting for rebirth this week.

>>89811917
He hangs out with them because they are friends not because he needs them.

>>89810576
>If dick could get a solo then Wally should too or at least be a regular on the flash comic
This

>>89810576
Dick is a Batman spinoff. Batman is 10x more successful than every other hero.

That said, Flash probably could support a spinoff with its current numbers, but I doubt a Wally comic would make it past 12 issues before falling below 20k, and I think that's what DC fears and why they haven't done it. The character won't sell without "The Flash" being the comic.

>>89811917
Silly anon, it's balanced. They have two brunette guys and one brunette girl, with two redhead guys and one redhead girl.

Clearly balanced.

>>89810944
>Yeah this why Batman and Titans are going to crossover in April to uncover the mystery of Rebirth. Oh wait, it's FLASH and Batman.

I dunno Titans Annual is coming out and has Batman in it. Maybe they'll drop a surprise there.

>>89811711
Barry being back kicks Wally off of the Justice League and out of the Flash book.

In a world where comics were vastly more successful and could support more books, you might be right. As of now you aren't. Barry's existence fucks Wally and has fucked Wally since he came back.

>>89811917
Well yes. Wally literally spent the last arc singlehandedly defeating a bunch of clones who were more powerful than all the other Titans, and then singlehandedly beating the main bad guy who created those clones.

They've basically acknowledged how powerful Wally is. This team has nothing on him when it comes to a fight. Garth has weird magic and tech that helps out with stuff like building a tower in a few hours, Lilith has telepathy which is always useful. Dick's the smart one who can figure stuff out.

Arsenal's just the perennial fuck up that everyone gets to feel sorry about. Donna Troy doesn't even know what Donna Troy is or does.

>>89815503
Sad That editorial killed The Flash Expansion. Impulse Ran for 89 issues and a few specials.

>>89817938
Well Impulse well outstayed its welcome. That book was under cancellation numbers (sub 15k) for like 2 years before they finally axed it.

>>89818034
Is Post Waid Impulse worth reading.

>>89810576
Maybe if he carved out his own identity like Dick and didn't just ride on Barry's coattails.

>>89817770
I like Harper and Donna's interactions a lot. I'm liking Harper in the book, actually. He's as much guy-ish as Wally.

>>89818075
Kind of like The Flash but in reverse, the Waid stuff is the best and the Messner-Loebs stuff is good but nothing special.

>>89818250
And their entire relationship right now is:

Roy: "I'm a huge fuckup how could you ever like me."

and

Donna: "I don't care that you're a huge fuckup, atleast you know what you are, WHAT AM I"

It's kind of why they work. Donna's drama is so insane that Roy's horseshit is pretty bland.

>>89818164
Then what should Barry change his name to?

>>89818250
The problem with Donna and Roy is it feels doomed to fail because it's hard to imagine Roy later in his life without Lian.

Unless you go some weird rape angle and turn Donna into a cuck.

How do we fix the Titans /co/? It was a bigger franchise than JL once. Can we make it more than just budget JL again?

>>89818584
Storywise it's good now focusing on pre-NTT stuff. Just needs a new artist.

File: 7e77f3844ac56a1b6f7635a411c670ff.jpg (635KB, 600x900px) Image search: [Google]

635KB, 600x900px

Can't believe I'm saying this but be like Marvel.

Have "The Flash: Barry Allen" and "The Flash: Wally West".

Barry can do shit in Central City and elsewhere and Wally can do shit in Keystone and elsewhere. Barry tries to keep worthless Bally in line and fight crime and Wally can get his life back on track and fight crime.


If Marvel can juggle two different characters under the same hero name, can't be too hard for DC to do something similar.

>>89818584
That was Teen Titans. Because back in the day kids read comics and Teen Titans were comics about kids.

Titans has never been that popular and the book has been relaunched and rebooted a ton of times.

>>89818584
Starfire, Raven and Beast Boy need to stop being demoted to teenagers every five seconds

>>89818685
That doesn't really work. Keystone and Central City are neighbors. If something happened both Flashes should show up.

Marvel is also massively more successful than DC. And still has to constantly cancel and relaunches those derivative titles.

File: Hello Barry.jpg (123KB, 601x450px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 601x450px

>>89818419
Eobard's Punching Bag.

File: Bat hahaha.png (301KB, 306x458px) Image search: [Google]

301KB, 306x458px

>>89818734
>Marvel is also massively more successful than DC

>>89809793
Wait for this dumb Rebirth-Watchmen story to end first. THEN we can hound DC to fucking hell and back.

>>89818777
While you can certainly say they overship the market and practice non-sustainable bonus and shipping practices with stories, Marvel outstrips DC in both financial and unit marketshare by a decent margin, and has for awhile.

>>89818685
DC did it long before Marvel, casual

>>89818823
Booth has said he's been asking around for a Wally solo and the response is "We'll see how Titans sells."

With Titans decreasing a sizable amount on a monthly basis, it'll probably hit sub 30k by issue 12 and that'll scuttle those chances.

It's a shame because if they had seriously directly followed up on that Manhattan stuff they could've launched that book into the stratosphere. Instead it's going to be a bunch of shitty event books or already successful books (JL, Batman, Flash, Superman and his derivatives) who get the rub.

>>89818966
DC never had two Flash solo comics running side by side. At best they had Jay in JSA and as a supporting character in The Flash.

Unless you can't Impulse, but Impulse wasn't "The Flash." like he's saying. He's trying to see if the name value will keep a second book alive.

>>89819057
Call Wally's book "Speed Force"

>>89819057
DC has generally had multiple mantle holders with books at the same time. They are basically doing it now in the Superbooks with Superman and NSM even. It's not something Marvel invented.

>>89819514
This is true though.

>>89819637
New Super-man is pretty dang recent tho.

>>89819514
Why? It's not like the Speed Force is unique to Wally. Heck, they made it more important to Barry than Wally.

>>89819777
It was just one example. We can go back to GL Rebirth when Kyle had his solo and Hal had the main book. Or New Krypton when Mon-El had the Superman solo and Clark was on WoNK. Or Dickbats being in Batman and I think also Batman and Robin while Bruce was in Batman Inc.

It happens a lot is what I'm saying.

Because why would they get rid of Barry? He's the better Flash. Always has been. His character shouldn't only exist as the Conduit for Wally, nor should Wally be The one true Flash "just because".

>>89819817
Because Speed Force is the name of a previous book so you net in nostalgiafags like myself.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Speed_Force_Vol_1_1

>>89820095
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Convergence:_Speed_Force_Vol_1 also

>>89820064
Don't start this argument. You won't win. Wallyfags are the most stubborn "not my version of the superhero" assholes in the world.

Barry could be written better than The Godfather, and they would still want Wally back.

>>89815503
The Wally centred series was going to be called Speed Force before the reboot. I think they want to do one but they're wanting to have the Flash family again to do so.

>>89820282
Speed Force works better as a name for the Flash family book anyway.

>>89820282
Just bring back Jenni and Bart and have them hang out with Wally. That's enough for a book.

>>89820364
I think Jenni should stay with the Legion. Speed Force should be Wally, Max, Jay, Bart, Jesse and I guess NuWally.

>>89820452
>NuWally

pls no

I'd even take Wally's shitty kids before NuWally. Atleast Iris has been a decent character before.

>>89820188
You can't really know that considering Barry hasn't even had an above mediocre story since he came back.

Maybe if his books were even a tenth as good the backlash about the replacement wouldn't have been so severe.

Even then Barry never got the severe mistreatment when he left. Dude still showed up in comics all the time after his death.

>>89820631
NuWally has become tolerable to me, but he needs a nickname so we can tell him apart from Wally when referred to in text like how we had Irey for the younger Iris. It's not as big of a deal now that they're not in the same book, but it would need to happen if they were.

>>89820682
His characterization under Williamson has been good but the stories are boring.

>>89820874
>His characterization under Williamson has been good but the stories are boring.

Yes, a truly mediocre run. The equivalent of Waid's "Wally's moonlighting in California as a Superhero!" gimmick. The characters are written fine and the story isn't necessarily bad, but there's nothing memorable about it. It's not going to be a must read on any Flash rec list besides people who've only read post Flash Rebirth Barry comics. A group that includes people who think Venditti's Flash is fine and Booth's art is great.

>>89820874
>NuWally has become tolerable to me, but he needs a nickname so we can tell him apart from Wally when referred to in text
Wallace?
Willis?
Will?

>Jay
>Barry
>Wally
>Bart
>?
They need a new person to pass the torch too. Bringing Barry back wasn't a mistake but making him "The Flash" was, especially since he isn't even the fastest flash.

>>89810576
Why not have one story Barry Flash and other Wally Flash, since Flash ships double, they'll both technically have monthly ongoings.

>>89815503
Considering Titans is selling right now mostly because of Wally I am pretty sure it would work.

>>89821178
WW kind of proves the danger of that. Would almost be better to just do one full arc of Barry, one full arc of old Wally, one full arc of new Wally, etc instead.

>>89820282
Fuck new 52. So many good ideas erased by it.

>>89821274
WW's format is fine. A bunch of people who can't remember what they read last month having trouble following the floppy is temporary. The art staying consistent in the trade will last for ever.

File: Reverse_Flash_068[1].jpg (191KB, 960x1302px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 960x1302px

>>89818351
>Kind of like The Flash but in reverse
When did Zoom get his own run?

>>89820064
>>89820188
This is pretty ironic since Wally is such a better character than boring Barry that when Barry came back they wrote him to be more like Wally.
>He's a better flash
Wally is by far a more powerful and mature flash by the end of his run.
>B-But wally fags
No you dumb shit. It's the small amount of idiots who don't read comics pretending they know anything about Barry or Wally but watch the TV show.

>>89820064
The best thing Barry ever did was die.

As some other anon put it a long, long time ago, "Barry Allen's life is the greatest origin story ever told."

>>89820188
>Barry could be written better
But he isn't written better. That is the problem. Every since Barry came back the Flash comic has suffered. That is why people have an issue with it.

>>89820064
What do you think are the best, say, 5 Flash stories ever? Individual or arcs, either is fine.

Remember, you are allowed to choose comics from before 2009.

>>89820188
>Barry could be written better than The Godfather,
Could he, though? Why has no one ever done so?

Why, if he COULD be written so well, does he never get written so well?

>>89821274
>one full arc
I like the idea but I don't like Flash's current run.

>>89821752
>Implying he reads comics

>>89822051
Typical Barryfag.

"but the show is so great!!!!"

>>89822103
The show at least made Barry a fun character but it was at the price of turning Wally into a boring shit. It's like Barry and Wally switched places.

>>89822289
Hey, you found the thing.

Barry sucks. It's why they killed his mom to give him a sob story. "Let's bring back the iconic character! Oh shit he's boring, let's kill his mom."

They've just been steadily tacking on more shit at a vain attempt at making him interesting. They ripped off all of Wally's Speed Force shit and shoved it right up his ass so people would think he's cool.

>>89820064
How is he "The Best"?
He isn't the strongest, the most mature or have the best personality. So why would he be the best?

>>89822712
Literally "He's the one on the TV show"

In a few years it'll be "he's the one in the movie"

>>89822289
The show basically turned Barry into a slightly less hyper Bart.

>>89822575
You're kidding yourself if you think Johns wasn't pulling a Blitz 2.0 with the mom thing and wouldn't have saved her in the end.

Though the fact that he would rehash his own run does prove your point.

>>89822836
If that was the case they wouldn't have kept the dead mom origin for the New 52. And everything afterwards.

They just wanted him to have a dead mom so people would empathize with him more.

>>89820874
>NuWally has become tolerable to me, but he needs a nickname so we can tell him apart from Wally

Maybe call him Wallace? Or have him go by his middle name and go by Rudy?

>>89821161
John Fox?

What happened to black wally?

>>89823013
They kept it because it was a popular story by a big name writer, but that doesn't change what the original intent obviously was.

>>89823132
god no

>>89823225
>They kept it because it was a popular story by a big name writer, but that doesn't change what the original intent obviously was.

Barry dying was a popular story.

Johns wasn't going to bring back his mom. Johns actually prefers tragic backstories.

>>89810662
>implying Wallyfags will ever shut up

they could rename the Speedforce the Wallyforce and they'd still complain

>>89823857
I'm a Wallyfag and I'd definitely complain because that would A: be stupid and B: wouldn't solve any problems.

They already fucking changed it into literally the Barryforce so fuck off.

You know, I was wondering... What if they make Wally change his name? Or his last name, for a while, I mean, until they fix their universe, somehow.

Who knows about him right now? Apart from the titans, Barry and supes. i'm not counting linda or nuWally, because they know him from the current universe alone, as "the other flash guy".

File: misterzip.jpg (1MB, 1816x1366px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1816x1366px

>>89824167
No. That's stupid. It gets brought up on /co/ once a week by the same faggot.

Wally's The Flash. He will always be The Flash, and if DC changes his name then they're stupid as fuck.Turning him into a 12 year old kid who was no longer The Flash is what everyone hated so much that they brought the real version (or some facsimile of him) back.

Mark Waid wrote about this exact topic 20 years ago and his words ring as true now as they did then. He's not Mr. Zip. He's The Flash.

>>89824394
... I'm not talking about his costume name, anon. I don't want him to change his hero name.

I don't even want him to change his actual given name or his surname. But I was thinking about the surname thing because, apparently, he doesn't want Iris to know, and it looks like he doesn't have a "legalç" persona right now. Which could bring some problematic issues to the table until everything is fixed.

>>89824511
Why would he change his name if no one even knows who he is anyhow?

It's not like he's Superman who has to pretend to not be Clark Kent. He has no reason to change his name.

To humor you, if you really wanted Wally to change his name in the future to clear up confusion just have him take Linda's last name. I don't see how it's a problem when anyone who knows his name isn't going to confuse him for someone else.

>>89810662
>Wally is the central character in Rebirth
>Titans' first arc is all about Wally, and Titans sells better than it ever did
>gets a big spotlight issue in the main Flash book with the Flash of Two Worlds cover homage

things look good for wallyfags, right?

Then...

>Wally gets sidelined in Titans for Roy/Donna and Mal/Karen
>pining over Linda
>Titans covers have Dick front and center
>barely shows up outside of Titans, other than being one of Dick's friends
>Black Wally shows up in the main Flash book more
>big crossover that follows up on the Rebirth storyline that Wally started will involve Barry instead

>>89824805
It's like when Flash Rebirth solicits were coming out and Johns was promising everyone they weren't going to fuck Wally in the ass, which is what everyone feared.

You can just see it happening. It's slow motion disappointment.

>>89824167
>>89824511
He doesn't have to change his name like Superdad did because there's no double of him. The universe made a natural place for him already. NuWally didn't even get a meta retcon, just a normal one revealing that they lied to him about his dad.

>>89824659
That could work. I can see it. That, if he gets to go out with Linda soon, that is something I don't see happening, to be honest.

I was thinking about his issues with letting Iris know. I mean: I've the feeling it's going to be a plot point sometime soon, because they cannot postpone him meeting her and telling nuWally his actual name tears and years. And he shows some anxiety about not having a live outside the Titans in the Nightwing preview, which could mean it's going to be a problem in the Titans storyline not long from now.

And as far as I've seen, Wally is not a fellow wich deals well with anxiety and not having a place to belong.

>>89821161
Pretty much any of the future speedsters from the Cobalt Blue arc would work. That girl whose body was stuck in the speedforce and could only appear as a spirit speedster would be an interesting choice, come to think of it. Sela, I think? She could have that whole begrudging respect/occasional friendship thing with Glider (and the other Rogues by extension) since their situations are similar.

Wally's relationship/interactions with the Rogues was one of the best aspects of his run(s).

>>89825511
Yeah but then you'd have to recognize that awful cobalt blue arc

>>89825668
The arc wasn't bad. Cobalt Blue himself was a fucking horrible idea though.

>le Barry's evil twin

>>89825703
Well yeah. Everything about that arc aside from the fun little chase around with Iris and the many speedsters of the generation was kind of dumb. Wally punching the Anti Monitor to pieces, the time travel that makes no sense (Waid before that arc was a lot better at making the time travel work), everything to do with Cobalt Blue.

It was probably Waid's worst "big" arc.

>>89823857
>Anyone who doesn't like the horrible decisions that happened in The Flash in the last few years are all WALLY FANS
I hate you.

>>89825668
Eh, you could tweak it a bit. All you really need is Sela's dad being killed by Cobalt Blue, and CB having an intense hatred of Flash for some reason. Stick with CB as a gem/artifact imbued with malice that corrupts people through exposure. If you want to keep some sort of connection to Barry, then CB could be a guy who's in love with/stalking Iris and thinks Barry stole her from him.

File: 5236294-r1[1].jpg (954KB, 1977x1565px) Image search: [Google]

954KB, 1977x1565px

>>89824929
I didn't mind Barry coming back but it made no sense for Barry to replace him. Wally at that point had more experience, was faster, knew what was going on more and was frankly more mature.
It should have been Wally teaching Barry and showing him the ropes. It would have made an amazing twist on the student/master trope since it would be Wally the side kick now teaching his old mentor. It could have been amazing.

>>89826116
I like that they have him tease Barry about not knowing speed force hax at least.

>>89826116
That seemed to be a little bit of Johns' idea at first. The whole "I'll show you that trick some time" and the part where Barry struggles to run through the Speed Force while Wally just breezes through it like a beast and tells Barry how to make it through, helping him along. It was probably going to be along the Kyle/Hal lines. Wally is the most powerful, Barry is the "best" Flash.

But then it all got tossed away.

>>89826254
Wally is still canonically the most powerful flash.
Wally should really have an arc teaching Barry stuff and how it effects Wally showing his old mentor the Ropes.

>>89826469
Then they'd have to have them interact more than once a year.

As we learned after Flash Rebirth, Barry is not allowed to see Wally more than once in a blue moon.

The Flash can easily support another book, Wally'll prolly get one after this Rebirth mystery is squared out.

>>89827003
It feels like that's the opposite order of the way things should be.

>>89827003
Flash's book sells decent, but I'm not sure it can support a second book. It hasn't been a strong title sales-wise for over a decade.

>>89827463
The Flash is literally the 2nd most popular cape comic and has been for about a year

>>89809793
>So is Wally destined to be just another Titans member from now on despite the fact that unlike the rest of the side kicks he stopped being a side kick 25 years ago

No, I'm sure he will get a book. Also you forgot Nightwing. There's no rush yet. Let him get established back with the Titans first You must be one of those guys who wanted Manhattan to show up 2 months after the one shot

>>89827498
I definitely wouldn't go that far. Barry's a popular character for sure but the TV show's popularity doesn't make it a best seller comic wise.

>>89827498
That's new news to me, and surprising given Venditti's run was so subpar.

>>89810813

Why would they? You do know that Barry is the second best selling solo superhero title from any company don't you?

>>89827535
>I definitely wouldn't go that far
But it's an objective fact. Look up comic book sales month after month for the last year.

>>89827580
>Why would they
Same reason they got rid of him before, to spice up the comic and to let writers write a new character. The Flash selling well isn't because of Barry, it's because of it being called The Flash

>>89827985
But it's an objective fact that the Flash only broke the top 10 once since July when Rebirth started, are you stupid?

>>89828007
same could be said for wally

>>89817239
>Clearly black hair
>Brunette

>>89828007
>let writers write a new character.

Wally is hardly new and to most of these writers Barry is fresher than Wally

>>89828114
Non english speaker.

I meant black hair.

>>89827985
For the last year, during DCYou it sold about the same as most other nonBat A-listers, in the 30ks. It's not bad but it's not particularly good either. Just about what you expect from a character in his tier along with GL and WW (Superman was there too but that's relatively low for his main books, should be about 10k higher). The Rebirth book is in the 60ks and still hasn't settled in yet. Stores are still adjusting for the lack of returnability. It is pacing better than the other comparables though (again WW and GL).

Batman has like 2-3 solos at this point that are higher than Flash. Spider-Man is basically right there but likely settled in while Flash will still drop a little. Flash will probably fall below Superman during that Reborn crossover, but jump back up for the Batman crossover. We'll see what happens after that.

So you weren't totally wrong, but didn't factor in where the sales will likely trend. And of course during DCYou he was nowhere near "2nd most popular".

>>89828212
>during DCYou it sold about the same as most other nonBat A-listers, in the 30ks

Should clarify I meant DC's nonBat A-listers not market-wide.

>>89827535

>I wouldn't go that far

So you will deny reality?

>>89828136
When did I say they should replace him with Wally?
Get a new character to be the flash.

>>89828212
>Flash will probably fall below Superman during that Reborn crossover

I wouldn't be so sure. Flash has that badge cross over with Batman

>>89828315

There's no reason to

>>89828339
>There is no reason to
Except
>it would keep in with tradition
>Allow writers to write a new character
>Make more sense since Barry is no longer the most powerful flash
It would be like saying there was no reason to switch Jay for Barry.

>>89828317
literally finish reading the sentence my man

But either way I think the Flash franchise could support another book. I don't know why they have been so shy to do it while GL has gotten like 2-3 books consistently.

>>89828372

We have enough Flashes.

>>89828372
Flash transitions over to somebody else when the book is struggling. The book isn't struggling.

>>89828412

Yeah, sorry. And I agree Flash can support another book but Flash is much more limited than the Lanterns when it come to what you can do unless you get creative with it. It would be boring to have two flash books doing the same Superhero stories

Maybe have one book that explores the multiverse quantum leap style, where he arrive at different universe at different time periods unable to get back to Earth Prime

>>89823199

He's still Kid Flash. He's more in Teen Titans right now than Flash.

>>89821161

Which answers this question. black Wally is destined to become A Flash someday. Barry will be The Flash for the foreseeable future though.

>>89828490
I don't find it that different in concept than multiple Superbooks. There's tons of stories that can be told, the characterization is what carries it and makes them different from each other in the end.

Make "Flashes" with Wally and Wally. Then make "Barry Allen and the Speedsters" with Barry and the other SF folks. Take a page straight out of rebirth gl's book

I dig his new digs.

>>89828618
Superbooks barely holding up and I extermly doubt that Flash can hold multiple titles.

Only the Batbooks are still doing fine.