>Katie Wallander (whose name was Katie Rice when she worked

>>89748336
I dont remember much other than the stuff I fapped to.

it was pretty fucking awesome

the bitch writes camp wedontwantcha now so lol

>>89748336
>Was it really that bad?

The episode where they eat snot for 22 minutes was god awful.

I remember little else about it. The show was extremely "try hard". The very definition of it.

>>89748336
Billy West refused to retake his role as Stimpy because he didn't like the material so Wallander isn't alone on this

>>89748484
>Billy West refused to retake his role as Stimpy because he didn't like the material

If that's how West tells it, he's a liar.

John K. straight up didn't invite West back for the series. When Nick fired John K. and moved production from Spumco to Games on the original series, West sided with Nick and not only got to keep voicing Stimpy, but got John's role as Ren as a bonus. John never forgave him for that.

West can say what he wants about Adult Party, but the reason he wasn't in it is because John told him to fuck off.

>>89748589
All the better he doesn't have to go anywhere near an asshole that was willing to destroy his vocal cords just for the perfect scream.

>>89748589
>West can say what he wants about Adult Party, but the reason he wasn't in it is because John told him to fuck off.

Adult Party was so shit, John K. wound up doing Billy West a favor, then.

>>89748336
i tried to watch it being a fan of the nick show expecting some bizarre humor but damn was it terrible

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>>89748589
I guess it depends on whether or not this is true.

>>89748589

>West sided with Nick and not only got to keep voicing Stimpy, but got John's role as Ren as a bonus. John never forgave him for that.

If West left, he would have been blacklisted and potentially never have VA work again. He didn't have much of a choice.

>>89748336
it was bad, but not for the reasons that are triggering her

this kinda shit is the reason i refuse to hate anyone purely for working on something.. it comes up in Twelve Forever threads when people point out the creator of that is on new PPG

>>89748589
the way I heard it, Billy tried to support John but he was like 'no no, stay, you're good for the show'

Maybe it's because I was a kid when I watched Ren & Stimpy, but I never realized Billy replaced John K as Ren. Are there any videos comparing their performances?

>>89748892
I alternated between reading this as Fry and reading it as Trump.

>>89748336
Is she the one who looks like she's being groomed in every behind the scenes segment?
Like, you've got this attractive twenty-something drawing big-titted Tex Avery cheesecake while John K just kinda drools over her shoulder?

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Katie's cute.

Major overreaction due to the fact she's a woman but yeah it was pretty bad.

Problem wasn't it was offensive and crude, the problem was it just wasn't funny.

>>89749533
Someone should make a back to back comparison.

Honestly, I love Billy West but I can't stand his Ren. Maybe I'm too used to John's or something, Billy's never sat well with me.

And it's not that it's that bad, I think it's just in comparison to John's.

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>>89749977

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>>89750110

>>89749533
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Ren-and-Stimpy/Ren-Hoek/

It's kind of TNN's fault for telling them to make it cruder

>>89748378

She won that shitty reality show called strip search. It's not important now.

There are about two/three episodes of Adult Party that are brilliant but the rest are utterly and completely dogshit to the extent that it not only killed Viacom's plans for a rival block to go against Adult Swim, but pretty much single handedly vindicated Nickelodeon and their treatment of John K and wiped out the myth John K spent YEARS building making him out to be a martyr and not a hack who was rightfully fired from R&S.

That said, TWO things killed the show more than anything else.

1. They chose the WORST possible episodes to launch the series.

2. John K was utterly and completely late in getting episodes done in time, which killed any and all chances to regain fans.

The worst thing is that the episode he forced everyone to work MONTHS on, ignoring other episodes in favor of doing 100% perfect, was the naked beach episode which Spike flat out told him REPEATEDLY they would not air.

Also the DVD is sickening in the way that it is one HUGE circle jerk to John K, especially the introduction segments, which had his harem verbally jerking off John K on camera.

(Fun fact, John K sexually harassed one of his female animators to the point that she quit and said animator's BFF who worked on the show with her and even played music in her crappy garage band with her, basically disowned her because said BFF was willing to let John K sexually harass her because she thought that it would help her advance her career)

>thread gives me the urge to watch Ren & Stimpy
>look up collection set
>apparently the episodes are cut despite the collection being labeled UNCUT
thank god the internet exists.

>>89750232

How do you know this? Can you cite your sources?

>>89748435
holy shit what

>>89748892

The one thing that always colors my opinion of Billy West was an interview he did about the voice of Zapp Brannigan, where he didn't mention Phil Hartman until the interviewer brought it up. It seemed like kind of a dick move not to acknowledge how that shaped the performance.

>>89748435
This sounds like Rick n Morty. Try hard all the way.

I don't recall RnS promoting cuckoldry. Do you?

>>89750703
I'm pretty sure Rick and Morty wouldn't have 22 minutes of eating mucus.

>>89748336
I'd be embarrassed too, the show ended up being fucking awful. The designs were great, so her part was done well, but the rest was absolute garbage.

>>89750732
I've never liked how they drew Ren in APC. WAY too ugly.

>>89750192
>She won that shitty reality show called strip search
https://yuki.la/co/45997734
good times

>>89750577
adult party cartoon is considered a different series than the original ren and stimpy
the season sets contain all the original episodes, while adult party cartoon has it's own dvd

>>89750727
No they'd have 22 minutes of burping from a guy that's meant to be a genius.

Meanwhile R&S are morons.

>>89750841
>geniuses can't burp

>>89750703
No anon, it really wouldn't.

>>89748336
To be fair, the only episodes worth watching in the APC were probably Man's Best Friend (Which was banned during the original series run) and Ren Seeks Help.

The rest of the episodes were dog shit. I could try to argue that Altruists is probably a close third to being decent but even that episode was pretty fucking weird.

>>89750897
>Ren Seeks Help.
that was shit

>>89750867
>for 22 straight minutes it's okay but if an animal is eating boogers for 22 minutes, fuck it's the end of the world

I'd tell you to go back to you know where you hypocirtical, fedora tipping cunt, but we're on /cotumblr/, so you're home and I'm in the wrong place.

>>89750797
I know. The collections of the original series are missing scenes though.

>>89750922
Man, it still amazes me how triggered Christfags are over Rick.

>>89750922
there is a HUGE difference between burping and eating another man's snot

>>89750922
>>89750841
>>89750703
That's some try-hard contrarianism

>>89748336
Yeah, its pretty bad.

>>89750922
Hey John K, maybe you should lay off the cheap liquor

The burping represents Rick's alcoholism; the fact that he's drunk 95% of the time.

The boogers are merely unfunny shock humor.

>>89750974
>Christfags
Projecting. I reject all notions of regulated religions.

>>89750986
Not when they're both cartoons ad one is meat to be a human and the other an animal.

It's clearly alright for a human to act like an animal but if an animal does its bad? Yeah nah you're a stupid cunt and RnM is tumblr tier dogshit.

>>89751031
I'm an alcoholic and I don't burp anywhere near he does. But it's okay because the show is intellectual right? Building an amusement park in someones stomach is intellectual

>TNN ask for an edgier, cruder Ren & Stimpy
>They get what they ask for
>They immediately regret it
Moral of the story: don't ask for something to be cruder when it was already crude enough.

>>89750994
>it's okay if I do it but is bad if you do

That's contrarianism right there and if you disagree, guess what, contrarianism again.

>>89751100
>>89751063
You're right, you are a """contrarian""" instead of actually being contrarian.

>>89750110
link to uncensored version?

>>89748336
>Katie Wallander (whose name was Katie Rice when she worked on the show)
Did she get married or something???
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>89749977
She looks like Xev Bellringer.

>>89751217
>tumblr calling out tumblr

Good

>>89751343
No, no she doesn't. How dumb are you? Her prominent facial features are completely different as is her heads shape.

>>89750703
>>89750727
>>89750974
>>89751050
>>89751217
>>89751358
It amazes me how far you fags went off the rails here. Holy shit what are you even talking about

>>89751050
>I reject all notions of regulated religions
>regulated
Ahhh so you're part of The Church of Euthanasia.

>>89748336
>Was it really that bad?

She's a woman who had to work under John K. Yes it really was that bad. He's openly perverted.

>>89748589

>Trusting John K's word over Billy West

top kek

>>89751464
>one anon whines about a show being try-hard
>another anon points out another show that is try-hard but seems to get a pass on /co/ because of it's sjw bullshit
>contrarian anons acting contrarian
>tumblr btfo again but nobody cares because this is tumblr.jr

I remember being so excited when the first episode of Adult Party Cartoon aired, and I remember how massively let down I was.

>>89748589
Nah, this isn't true. John never tells anyone to "fuck off." It's not his style. John would have had Billy back to do Ren if Billy wanted to do it. People burn their bridges with John, for good reason, but John's head is too firmly up his own ass to care enough to cut ties or nurture partnerships with the people around him.

>>89748336
I've asked her questions privately about Spumco on her tumblr and she answered. Not with a bunch of gory details, but she didn't refuse to comment or anything

>>89751523
>Adult Party Cartoon
I missed this, what was so bad about it?

>>89752191
It's depressingly out of touch. John failed to understand what people liked about the original and tried to be edgy by adding more fart jokes and inside jokes that no one besides him can understand.

>>89752275
>and tried to be edgy by adding more fart jokes and inside jokes that no one besides him can understand.
TNN literally asked him to make an edgier version of the show...

>>89750700
It didn't, it just ended up that way. West was going for a shatner voice without shatner's speech mannerisms while most of Phil Hartman's roles were just his speaking voice.

>>89752474
True, but when they asked for an edgier show, they probably meant, you know, edgy and smart...not just more booger jokes. John's audience grew up but he didn't. I think Ren Seeks Help came closest to what his audience wanted.

>>89751478

In the few videos of him that I've seen, including the infamous Howard Stern episode, he didn't come across of someone without self control. I don't doubt these claims, but I'm curious is if there's any recording of the fire rather than just the smoke, so to speak.

I've heard there was a video of him hovering over one of his female staff that was cringey. I believe it was a DVD bonus feature. Anyone know what I'm talking about and have a link to the video or screenshots?

>>89753477
yeah there's a fucking weird one where he's pressuring this lady into talking about private sexual stuff. she literally says "I don't wanna talk about that" and then the camera cuts and she does talk about it lol

>>89750232
>John K was utterly and completely late in getting episodes done in time

He was just being consistent.

>hearsay from TVTropes
Go fuck yourself

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Here is a pic of John K grabbing her booby.

>>89748336
I still don't get why people say this is awful.

No I haven't seen it, but "it has adult humor" doesn't seem like enough of a reason to call it bad.

>>89750951
you won't find them uncut online either. and those dvd sets are about as uncut ad they get. in fact they are almost completely uncensored aside one or two very short scenes. the old nick reruns were more censored

>>89758223
>I still don't get why people say this is awful.
>I haven't seen it

Then maybe you should watch it instead of pissing and moaning that people who HAVE watched it don't like it.

>>89750577
>>89750951
>>89758587

Yeah, just be grateful that it isn't Rocko's Modern Life.

Those episodes were positively brutalized in the censoring process for post 2000s reruns, and unfortunately the NickToons Network cuts were the only versions Shout Factory were allowed to release on DVD.

So there is no way to find the uncut episodes as they originally aired in the 90s outside of very grainy and terrible clips on you tube.

The R&S DVDs are cut, but very minor cuts you might not even miss. The Rocko DVDs are absolutely hacked to shit.

>>89752547
>I think Ren Seeks Help came closest to what his audience wanted.

It at least had one funny joke in it.

>"WHAT KIND OF A PSYCHOLOGIST ARE YOU!?"
>"PSYCHOLOGIST!? Are you nuts? I'm a horse!"

>>89758687
>The R&S DVDs are cut, but very minor cuts you might not even miss. The Rocko DVDs are absolutely hacked to shit.
I honestly think it's the other way around,

If you pay attention to the DVD versions of the Games seasons, you'll notice huge chunks taken out of episodes for no reason whatsoever.

>>89758687
http://rockosmodernlife.wikia.com/wiki/Censored_Scenes

Doesn't seem like that much

>>89748378
I'm sure Katie like Adult Party Cartoon the revoltion and all come into play when she remember the experience of John K., trying to get into her panties behind the scenes.

Afterall, she made Skadi, so can't feel too embarrassed about APC.

>>89748589
>John told him to fuck off
Sure, John.

West's iteration of events is prolly right.

It's a classic case of he said, she said. With John being the she, fucking pansy wimpy looking faggot.

>>89751064
APC was evidently closer to John's original vision of Ren & Stimpy than what we got on Nickelodeon.

>>89750232
Errrghhh...

>>89751512
can you say this without buzzwords

>>89752275
>and inside jokes that no one besides him can understand
I agree. A lot of John's characters and sense of humor are extremely abstract and make sense only to him.

>>89748589
Never forget that John thinks the very concept of writers who aren't professional animators is reprehensible.

>>89759610
>Never forget that John thinks the very concept of writers who aren't professional animators is reprehensible.

So?

Chris Sanders feels the same way and /co/ is perpetually gay for him.

Dismissal or outright hatred of writers is a common attitude amongst professionals in the animation industry.

Shows like Adventure Time are direct-to-storyboard series with no dedicated screenwriters involved in the process at all, due mostly to the fact that professional artists and animators want to eliminate their presence entirely.

>>89759832
>Dismissal or outright hatred of writers is a common attitude amongst professionals in the animation industry

I hear tell that a lot of animators don't like working on the Simpsons because they're not allowed to do anything fun and must stay rigidly on-model.

>>89759610
>>89759832

Chuck Jones hated writers, too. All the dialogue in his cartoons he wrote himself in the margins of the storyboards and never once produced a cartoon by script.

The idea of having screenwriters script cartoons in advance, then the artists adapt the script, is a modern concept introduced by Michael Eisner when he took over Disney in the late 70s and brought his live-action film sensibilities to the animation process.

Needless to say, it stifled a lot of artists (most notably the remains of the 9 Old Men) and it's debatable whether the inclusion of screenwriters actually improved the animation medium at all.

Those of you interested in early Nick history, there's a book called "Slimed: An Oral History of Nickelodeon's Golden Age". It mostly talks about the live-action stuff, but there's an entire chapter called "Why was the creator of Ren and Stimpy fired from his own show?" that, in my opinion, presents both sides of the story as non-biased as possible.

>>89760011
>there's an entire chapter called "Why was the creator of Ren and Stimpy fired from his own show?" that, in my opinion, presents both sides of the story as non-biased as possible.

I'll have to check it out. But I'll be perfectly honest: The Games Animation episodes were every bit as good as the Spumco episodes. Many of them are some of the best episodes of R&S, too.

Sometimes removing a creator from their own series doesn't negatively impact the series. Hell, sometimes it might even improve the series. It doesn't happen often, but it DOES happen. I know it hurts feelings to think about it, but there are times when someone else gets a creator's characters better than the creator-himself.

The Kirk Tingblad seasons of Johnny Bravo are another example of this. His seasons were better than creator Van Partible's in just about every way.

John never could seem to figure out that Nickelodeon was a children's network and what content was and wasn't appropriate for it.

>>89748589
>Pick up phone on the ground
>See this guy calling
>Check history
>200 missed calls from John K
>Listen to voice mails
>200 voice mails of John K cursing up a storm
>Another 1000 similar text messages
>Go to police station
>Let them know I found Billy West's phone

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>>89748336
>See Katie
<See OP pic
Fuck I can't unseen it now
John you fucking degenerate

The guy needs someone to hold his hand. R&S managed to be very clever, even subversive, for its time. When he's allowed his own way, the results are disastrous.

>>89748653
You do know it was only the screaming parts for Ren that West did, right? When you have two people voicing the same character, you need to make sure they sound identical, thus, more takes. I'm not defending John K., but don't forget West also did some dick moves himself.

>>89750772
Does this site not work with phones? Or did you just post a link about naked chicks with no naked chicks?

>>89760121
The Games episodes were pretty forgettable, in my opinion.

People think the Spumco episodes were senseless gross out humor? The Games ones ramps it up even more.

I DO agree with you on Johnny Bravo though, I think the second and third seasons are way better.

>>89748336
Well the show was pretty in line with those over the top, sexual fantasy and confessional comix from the 70s like Crumb and such. So its not really surprising that a millenial chick that does cutesy sugary webcomic finds that stuff to be gross.

It is smut, its just that smut its not very in right now. Not with that demographic at least.

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>>89760171

>>89748902
Wow, Boco for once is coherent.
Kuddos

>>89750110
>>89750118
I love when this happens.

>>89760363
So you're saying John was promoting a little too much of a 1970s/baby boomer idea of sex that is kind of outdated.

>>89759832
The kind of people who think writers should be completely excised from animation tend to be nearly as moronic as people who think writers should be completely excised from comics, especially when so many working artists have the same level of skill as hobby artists. The real problem is the disconnect that comes from writers who don't understand the artform and artists who don't get storytelling. And even then you can still get good results.

Being able to act independently is understandable, but some people have the stupid belief that THEIR way is the ONLY way and all other methods of creation should be shunned.

>>89759832
The Simpsons is a writing driven show and near-universally respected in the industry (at least, when it was good anyway).

>>89760552
Yes. APC is very very much like Robert Crumb or Larry Flynt's vision of sex. Unfortunately, that's not what appeals to Millenials.

>>89760552
>>89760679
I'm glad we've established it was just those damn millenials and not the fact that John has a history of substituting wild animation and "shocking" content for humor.

>>89750232
SHAMPOO MASTER

>>89758088
Katie was asian?

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>>89753477
>I've heard there was a video of him hovering over one of his female staff that was cringey.

Apparently it was taken down from youtube but that's alright, it's still out there.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2s25l7

>>89760651

Most animators agree that sitcoms like the Simpsons and Family Guy should just be made in live-action. They use animation as a gimmick but don't take any advantage of the medium. They're what people mean when they say something "isn't a real cartoon".

>>89760844
The Simpsons did take advantage of the medium, though.
>>89760811
How come animators tend to be weirdo pervs?

>>89759832
>Shows like Adventure Time are direct-to-storyboard series with no dedicated screenwriters involved in the process at all,

Yeah, and it shows. With no script to work from, how often do Adventure Time episodes just suddenly END because they've run out of time, not because they've reached an organic ending point?

But this is good for Cartoon Network. By going direct to boarding, they don't have to pay writers. Boarders "write" the show and board it, too, all at the same price as if they were just boarding. Only CN really wins with this approach.

>>89760871
90% of all animators are perverted as fuck.

>>89760989
Yeah why is that?

>>89760844
FWIW, James L. Brooks said on the DVD commentary for The Way We Was that "We could never do this on a live action sitcom."

>>89760758
>and not the fact that John has a history of substituting wild animation and "shocking" content for humor

It's like we said. He has a very 1970s/baby boomer notion of sex that smacks of Hustler Magazine, and which just isn't very contemporary or what appeals to Millenials.

>>89761009
Their job is to draw human bodies all day.

>>89761009
Because they're nerds anon. Lack of regular social and sexual contact makes people grow up wrong. Look at this board itself for examples, at any given time there's a fart fetish or malesub fetish or giantess fetish or some sort of weird fetish thread up.

>>89761098
Is it the same in the case of great painters?

>>89761074
No, that has nothing to do with what was said. John having a terrible sense for writing humor more often than not (see, The Ripping Friends) has nothing to do with his notions of sex.

>>89761009

Well, when you're a bunch of hermits who don't tend to do a lot of social interaction in pursuit of your craft, which generally is full of solitude - that tends to happen.

>>89761141
Most great paintings are about the sexy, so I would assume so.

I have an animator friend always complaining about this john K dude.

Someone wanna green text me a rundown of the dude?

Sounds like a lot of drama over a bad cartoon.

>>89761395
>Worked on some good episodes of a cartoon and is generably knowledgable about animation.
>Later work shows he's not as good as people thought.
>Still pretends he's hot shit and his opinions are law

If your friend is Kyle tell him to fuck off.

>>89751064
>Adult Swim asks for even sadder Moral Orel
>Cancel the series for giving them ultra sad

>>89759291
This is why weirdo animators need limitations to work within

>>89761395
Basically,

>he can't get anything done on time or budget
>he couldn't understand why some things aren't acceptable content on a kids show
>he thinks he's the anointed successor to Bob Clampett
>he has an ego the size of the planet Neptune
>he sexually harassed female co-workers

>>89760926

Board-driven shows are more common than you think. AT is not some kind of special exemption, if anything it's more of the norm.

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>>89761395
The gist is that he's arrogant and, especially lately, he doesn't have the skills to back up his arrogance. He's an extremely opinionated person who has thoughts on everything which often pisses people off when he shits on something they liked just because it doesn't conform to his personal tastes. At the same time, he's been getting worse at animation- he has a habit of freeze framing animation and watching it frame by frame, and as a result he seems to be making animation where every single frame is something wacky. This is nearly unwatchable when it's not being watched the way he watches cartoons.

>>89761395

Got lucky with whatever episodes of Ren and Stimpy he worked on before he was fired. Has done nothing else notable.

>>89748336
>Was it really that bad?
Yes.

>>89748378
>it was pretty fucking awesome
How so?

It's pretty disgusting. They thought that to be funny for adults was the same thing as just being revolting.

>>89761631
As that clip shows, he seems to have completely forgotten how weight and gravity work.

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The Ralf Bakshi episode was golden.

>>89761631
Still more interesting than the Simpsons itself now.

>>89761715
Yep, the only good episode.

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I remember laughing at the episode where they flat out made Ren and Stimpy as gay as possible.

Ren and Stimpy was not a good show

>>89758991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWplbcjU4q4

Holy shit that was funny.

>>89762121
What is a good show?

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>>89760171

>>89758088
Who is this? It's definitely not Katie.

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I just rewatched APC again. It wasn't as bad as I remembered, but it still wasn't very good.

Onward and Upward: The debut episode, and it's pretty bad. They eat snot and chewed tobacco, and spend the entire episode talking about having gay sex, before having...gay sex. John originally said that "You're the pitcher, I'm the catcher" was originally supposed to lead to them playing baseball, but that's an obvious lie.

Ren Seeks Help: On-par with the classics IMO. Less gross stuff, more of the "psychodrama" from Space Madness and Stimpy's Fan Club. Good pacing and doesn't feel try-had with constant jokes.

Naked Beach Frenzy: Probably the funniest episode for me, and the one with my favorite drawings. Having one half take place in the showers splits the episode up nicely. John seems like he intended for this to be fap material, but I don't know what state of mind you'd need to be in to fap to John K work. Twintails girls is bestgirl

Altruists: Decently funny, but holy fuck is the pacing bad. It didn't need to be 39 minutes. The duck and gameshow prize scenes could have been cut WAY shorter.

Firedogs 2: Felt like a Games episode where Ren and Stimpy are someone's bitch. Not horrible, but too much shit jokes.

Stimpy's Pregnant: Kinda slow and Ren's a real ass - even more than usual. Most of the episode isn't very good, which is a shame because I loved the ending.
>They name the shitbaby "Little Ricky" and smoke in his face

>>89764164
You can definitely see some of Katie's art style there especially in the left girl.

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>>89764164
I really hate how they draw Ren in APC. I dunno, his original design I really liked, but APC makes him too ugly.

Nickelodeon were skeptical back when they first greenlighted R&S, as evidenced by the fact that they approved only six episodes while Doug and Rugrats got 13 each. The show quickly became a massive hit and John K an overnight celebrity everyone wanted to interview, much to Nick's chagrin.

So he kept arguing with them over the content of the show because he never could figure out that it was on a kids network. They fired him halfway through Season 2, put Bob Camp in charge, and then the remainder of R&S's run until its cancellation in 1995 was a disaster.

>>89764271
I will say it still has some gags that make me laugh, though. I don't know why, but the "Ohh, what I'm going to do to Stimpy..." in the first episode makes me laugh.

>>89764475
The funny thing is that the Camp-run show was a lot more vile/disgusting/dark than anything John did. It seems that Nickelodeon stopped caring about the content of it at that point.

>>89760844
Batman TAS is a perfect example of how a writer-driven show can be universally respected.
Its influential to a point that the DC Universe in comic books had a soft reboot because of it.

>>89764475
For as much shit as people give John, the first couple seasons are probably the only memorable Ren and Stimpy episodes. There were a handful of alright Games episodes though, Stimpy's Cartoon, the baboon one, Insomniac Ren sticks out to me.

>>89764271
They made his ears really small, which is funny because John is always going on about contrasts in character designs. His ears were a huge contrast to his head. In APC he looks like a weird old human man, especially because he has hair sticking out of his head.

>>89764475
>So he kept arguing with them over the content of the show because he never could figure out that it was on a kids network

Yeah I don't know what John tried to do, but honestly, Nickelodeon were much more lenient on the content of their shows than the network channels back then, which were really strict.

>>89748892
It's not as if Billy West isn't as much of a self-serving egotist.

>>89764786
Doesn't justify making the poor bastard destroy his throat doing a scream 150x.

>>89748336
No
She's just a cunt

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It DOES have one of my favorite reaction faces, though.

>>89759119
>trying
lol

>>89764956
What scream? The Ren's laugh in Stimpy's Invention?

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>>89764597
Yeah, this is exactly it.
It's actually not too bad in the first episode, though. He at least looks normal in some shots.

>>89750907
hello John Enter, how are you testicles doing?

>>89764986
Fuck me, that was from Adult Party not the classic show?

Watch that Howard Stern interview from '95. The tension between John and Billy is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

>>89748336
>>89748484
It's not about the show itself. It's about working with John.

>>89762504
Steven Universe

>>89758687
>The R&S DVDs are cut, but very minor cuts you might not even miss.
Bloody
Head
Fairy

>>89750703
oh wow, you just blew my mind with this.

Youre amazing, be my friend

>>89765249

Ohhhhh shit, they cut THAT out?

I mean, the Rocko DVD edits are lengthy (Heffer's blowjob, Rocko pinching a bear's weiner, the Deliverance joke at the gym, the chicken girl getting slaughtered and her corpse packaged at the grocery store), but that fuckin sucks, too.

>>89761465
if this is that guy from that class, go hide behind your balding friend's skirt you fat fuck.

>>89765249
Seriously. The fact that they cut the bloody head fairy and the scene from Son of Stimpy is fucking awful, and it really bothers me we'll probably never get a re-release with them intact.

>>89764271
Lynne Naylor had a lot to do with how cute the original R&S episodes were, she doesn't get enough credit.

>>89749296
>the reasons that are triggering her. Probably has legitimate ptsd from when John K raped her as a preteen.

>>89765358
The name sounds really familiar, but I don't think I've looked through her stuff, I'll have to do that. The early Ren and Stimpys really did have this sort of ugly cute charm to them.

>>89765307
>(Heffer's blowjob, Rocko pinching a bear's weiner, the Deliverance joke at the gym, the chicken girl getting slaughtered and her corpse packaged at the grocery store),

Did you make some of those up?

>>89764956
He's just being a drama queen.

>>89760811
LOL- I'm a minute and a half in, and he's already used the word "dykes", called Katie cute, and mentioned the time he went to her 15th birthday party.

>>89750700
He's said repeatedly he wasn't trying to imitate Phil, and it really doesn't sound like he did.

>>89765459
Have you ever worked at a haunted house as a teenager? Try screaming at the top of your lungs 150 times in a row. It's not nearly as easy as it sounds.

>>89765495
I kinda see it, at least a sort of similarity between how he did Zapp and how Phil would talk like a used car salesman for some of his stuff. Best example being from how he first talks about having to cut down the tree on Small Soldiers. That or how he talks as the guy on TV during the Philips CD-I commercials.

Remember that Twitter thing "Thumbs up if you've been groped by a co-worker" and Katie replied to it?

>>89751512
What are you even trying to say?

>>89764164
Which is the one where they torture a frog for like 5 minutes straight? Am I remembering that right? It was really sadistic and mean in a bad unfunny way- that's all I really remember about APC besides the gay jokes.

>>89765588
No

>All this shitting on the Games Animation episodes.

>An Abe Divided
>Stimpy's Cartoon Show
>Jerry the Bellybutton Elf
>Hard Times for Haggis
>Hermit Ren
>Magical Golden Singing Cheeses
>Lumberjerks
>I Love Chicken
>Egg Yolkeo
>My Shiny Friend
>Space Dogged
>TERMINAL STIMPY

There were plenty of good episodes. A few of those even rank among the best.

>"Back in the Golden Age, when Chuck Jones and Tex Avery ruled the Earth blah blah blah..."

No I'm sorry, John K would not have made it in the 1930s-40s (as if this baby boomer manchild would have survived the Great Depression). Yeah it's true that you can't make cartoons like that anymore, but what is the work he'd like to produce? Everything post-R&S has been a dead end or a complete embarrassment. Even if the animation is good (and it is only sporadically), his cartoons are dragged down by their utter lack of appealing, tasteful, intelligent content. His stuff is so completely disgusting to look at. Take the AP cartoons. Forty minutes long and nothing but nonstop poop jokes, fart jokes, slutty women, macho dudes, gay baiting, graphic violence. What's in there of any value? The films themselves are devoid of content, but still interesting simply for what they reveal about the auteur, who is not only happy to broadcast his adolescent sense of humor, but thinks he's the second coming of Tex Avery. The original R&S was a good show simply because he didn't have total free reign to do whatever he wanted, gave him some discipline, even managed to be subversive. As soon as the inmate got to run the asylum, the results were disastrous. He has no sense of creativity or humor beyond bathroom jokes, and he can't even discipline himself enough to produce or complete them most of the time.

>>89765695
Bob, please

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Billy West vs John K on Howard Stern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GrlpSr9YqU

>>89760363
>he hasn't read skadi
You don't know anything about Katie Rice.

>>89765728

What surprises me is how much respect and love John K. lavishes upon Ralph Bakshi.

Ralph. Bakshi.

The guy whose urban cycle of films were loaded with endless strings of complex dialogue and scripted like cinematic narratives with act structures.

The guy who switched exclusively to rotoscoping, ROTOSCOPING, by the 80s and literally traced live action footage to make his cartoons.

How John K. can shit on every animator on the planet, but then suck the dick of Ralph Bakshi, who has committed every crime against animation that John has bitched about, I'll never know.

>>89765695
>>Jerry the Bellybutton Elf
It always weirds me out how people always talk about how INSANE LOL KEK XD the show was and never bring up this scene from that ep https://twinsanity.co/2015/07/23/toons-tunes-ren-stimpy-climb-inside-my-world/

The Fritz the Cat movie may have been popular in its day, but Robert Crumb sure wasn't happy with it. He claimed that Bakshi not only mutilated the character, he inserted his own politics into the movie.

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>>89761141
Yep. Peter Paul Rubens was the original THICC fag. And Michelangelo was obsessed with the male body.

>>89761715
Apparently him taking giant messy shits that he didn't clean up is true if you read Sick Little Monkeys.

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>>89765405
She's a character designer in animation. Sam Jack, PPG, MLP, Foster's Home, Chowder, etc.

Bruce Timm famously gave her full credit for designing Harley Quinn for BTAS.

>>89759951
>The idea of having screenwriters script cartoons in advance, then the artists adapt the script, is a modern concept introduced by Michael Eisner when he took over Disney in the late 70s and brought his live-action film sensibilities to the animation process
What? Writer-driven cartoons existed far before that.

>>89765975
>but Robert Crumb sure wasn't happy with it.
Who gives a shit

>>89765746
I just watched this. Billy kept saying that it was one sided. What was he talking about? Anything come out later besides the screaming?

>>89765975
Nor did Stephen King like The Shining. Your point?

>>89760811

Fantastic, thank you.

>>89765420
the heffer one is a ref to him getting milked in an episode, which can't happen, since he has a fucking dick. so yeah, its what he says

the others, i don't remember but i wouldn't put it past that they did happen. i miss the sex worker line joke too, not sure if thats still on the dvds

>>89767318
>i miss the sex worker line joke too, not sure if thats still on the dvds

Yeah, Rocko working at a phone sex hotline was cut. They also cut the Love Motel gag when Heffer and Rocko stop by a motel looking for a room.

The episode where Bev tries to seduce Rocko is edited a lot, too. The part where she tries to slip him Spanish flies was removed, for instance.

The Chokey Chicken establishing shots are about the only thing that didn't get cut, probably because the show-itself changed them to Chunky Chicken in later seasons.

Rocko as it's available is chopped up pretty bad.

>>89765844
The answer is really simple. John KNOWS Ralph Bakshi. He shit on the simpsons then stopped when they hired him. He shit on Tenacious D until they wanted some animation from him. He should hate Over the Hill, but he's friends with Mike Judge. John's all opinions until there's money involved.

>>89767394
damn
some stuff, yeah i could see cutting, but fuck its just a waste since people want what we first watched when it was new.

>>89767394

>Rocko as it's available is chopped up pretty bad.

I sincerly think that's bullshit. Other than the scenes they already cut in reruns, it's still better than the R&S DVDs.

http://rockosmodernlife.wikia.com/wiki/Censored_Scenes

>>89748653
Frick
what perfect scream anon?

>>89766049
Pretty much. Where do you think the term "Rubenesque" came from?

>>89758687
Rocko only had I think two or three episodes that were censored on the dvds.

Meanwhile, with Ren and Stimpy. http://renandstimpy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_episodes_with_DVD_cuts

>>89768125
>Rocko only had I think two or three episodes that were censored on the dvds.

So the Shout Factory DVDs don't use the NickToons Network cuts of the episodes, but are like a middleground between the original broadcast versions and the NickToons Network edits?

>>89767812
Knowing John K it was probably just a certain pitch that he wanted for one brief part of the cartoon.

>>89765695
Eh, Stimpy's Cartoon Show is the only one that really stood out to me. A Yard Too Far too.

>>89749977
What's the name of that redhead chick that worked with him that has like a 100 dogs in her apartment?

>>89768263
http://rockosmodernlife.wikia.com/wiki/Censored_Scenes

Three scenes, the longest of which was only 36 seconds. I've never heard of any other censorship from Rocko that isn't on that page. The Ren and Stimpy dvds were sloppily put together and had some episodes with entire two minute long sequences removed that weren't even censored on tv.

>>89750110
got the schnoz wrong.

>>89759522
>>89765597
>[cartoon] is shit
>[cartoon] fanboy starts attacking [different cartoon] unprovoked
>all participants are retards
And I'm a retard for replying to a 3 hour post but whatever.

APC is not good. Throwing her copy in the garbage may be a bit much but I can understand being embarrassed about shit you worked on in the past.

I'd rather read Skadi or Wedonwancha than watch APC any day of the week.

>>89768501
seriously. Should be bigger.

Why leave out her best characteristic?

>>89751343
Anon you're literally comparing a football and a soccerball and saying they're the same.

>>89760811
It's always somewhat difficult listening to John and not imagining Ren.

>>89765224
I watch both and I can say that they are good shows

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>>89761631

When I fist saw that clip I thought The Simpsons was taking a really really mean spirited shot at John K. Like they had taken his style and pushed it to the point of a grotesque parody, then just kept pushing.

Then I saw his signature.

>>89765728

The thing John K misses when he talks about how great everyone was back in the day is that being an illustrator was a profession. You went to a trade school to learn how to do it, then you got a job cranking out illustrations to order. (Pic related). That's why there was so much technical skill. There was money to pay for it. But it was likely about as creatively fulfilling as stock photography or website graphic design is today.

>>89768870
But, those are the same.

>>89760844
Animators who know jackshit about actual comedy writing claiming that the Simpsons could have been live action just as easily because there aren't enough tweens or whatever are the main reason I don't take these John K "no writers in animation EVER" arguments too seriously

>>89772011
yeah, it's a stupid way to look at things. John's outlook is too black and white to be practical. There is more than one way to make a good cartoon or show.

>>89748378
Camp weedonwantcha is good. She also wrote Skadi, which is a god tier webcomic.

More than Nickelodeon keeping him in check, I think John just lost his touch after R&S. Everything he makes feels like he has a chip on his shoulder, like he's saying "Look how cartoony I am, every frame is a different wild expression, fuck inbetweens"

He got too caught up in his own theories and he has his own weird idea of what Rod Scribner really was. Rod used straight inbetweens - he had to, because making every drawing a key frame looks like shit.

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>>89770052
>Only 1932 conditions make these low prices possible

>>89770052
Yeah it's also worth nothing that the majority of Golden Age comic artists were people that couldn't get a job in commercial illustration, typically because they were poor and self taught or they were Jewish.

The top Illustrators mingled with the high society of New York meanwhile cartoonists would often lie about their job according to Eisner

>>89748336
Katie Rice got married within the past few years?
She was probably the comfiest waifu from Strip Search, so good on Mr. Wallander.


Oh, this is a John K thread.

>>89772224
>She also wrote Skadi, which is a god tier webcomic
Only because you can fap to it.

>>89772420
That's mostly a bonus.

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>>89772316
from her instagram

>>89764986
STEEMPEE YOU EEDEEIT

>>89758088
The short girl is the one who draws all that crazy anime, the blonde is one of his "assistants", the girl with the choker I dunno, Asian guy who cares.

>>89748336
it was a bunch of gay shit literally.

>>89772161
Yeah, the thing is that I'm not a John K hater by any means and I even think he has a point for the most part in this regards. But the dude thinks the Simpsons is just a Honeymooners ripoff and we're supposed to think he has any basic familiarity with the show, much less any understanding of what makes it work?

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>>89758223
Enjoy

http://kisscartoon.io/Cartoon/Ren-Stimpy-Adult-Party-Cartoon/Episode-1-Onward-and-Upward?id=63851

>>89772887
The thing is, one time 25 years ago, Matt Groening said "Ren & Stimpy does The Simpsons better than The Simpsons" and that's the only thing John K knows about the show.

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>>89772935
I uh...I did not enjoy that.

>>89749977
I've told this story a million times here but I once was offered an opportunity to get fixed up with her, years ago, before I was a fan of her.

Definitely one of my biggest regrets not taking that opportunity.

>>89750110
>posting nuetral pictures of yourself makes you a naked camwhoring slut
Kay. Also your drawings are pretty cal arts esque.

>>89768430
Marlo Meekins?

>>89761395

>the Roschilds bow down to John K

>>89760811
How old was Katie when she worked on the show? That part about the birthday party...

>>89773749
Probably around 19-21

>>89773749
She was born in 1979, so she would have been in her early 20s when APC was produced.

>>89773303
Ouch.

I'm sorry, Anon.

>>89748336
Katie Rice? She drew Skadi, so it's not like she was particularly squeemish about male fanservice.

And Ren and Stimpy is well known for its controversial tone, so whatever.

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>>89748435
Easily the worst one. Opens with an intro by John K explaining fans asked for more gross episodes. God knows I didn't.

>>89767812
This one. In fairness, it is perfect. They ended up reusing it a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hNLl7_W0ds

There was literally an episode of them fucking each other.
LITERALLY.
FUCKING.
EACH OTHER.

>>89774511
Was it the fanservice that disgusted her?
Or the fact that Nickelodeon forcing some structure to kricfalusi's ideas was necessary for his creativity to really shine. And without it, it his work comes across as nothing but lazy fanservice.

>>89748589
Why should West have left? A peformer is under no obligation to leave a show just because the showrunner changes.

And why should he? For all of Johns protestations that boil down to 'I MADE YOU!', Billy's talent was his own and didn't owe John anything after the way he treated him during voice records.

Why would Billy leave a full time job as the main VA, taking over both starring roles, on a succesful cable network cartoon just because the creator who worked him like a mule got fired? John K was delusional to expect that kind of loyalty from West.


West was going to voice Ren to begin with and they pitched the show with West doing both voices but when they went to pilot, John took the role of Ren without discussing it with West.

>>89765953
That sequence is incredibly well-animated but not very effective (or "trippy")

Compare with the sequence from the Spongebob Movie, which is barely even animated, but far more effective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfLMUt1x2Mk

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>>89774716
OP is quoting from TVTropes, and it's wrong.

Somebody on Twitter pointed out the segment with Katie on the DVD. It's really cringey. She watched it, then threw out the DVD.

Nothing about the quality of the show or being against fanservice.

>>89773789
Wasn't she was born in 1983? So she'd be about 20-21 when she worked on the show.

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>>89750232
Not to mention it was just so different from the original series. John K prides himself on drawings never looking the same but I think the character models strayed too far from their cuter more graphic Hanna Barbera stylised designs. Ren just looked ugly most of the time.

Also the episodes should never have been allowed to be a full half hour or longer. The episode he seems to be most proud of 'Altruists' is interminable. If they had've stuck to the 11 minute format, the jokes would've been more condensed and the show could've moved more quickly when a scene wasn't working.

In the original show, the longest episodes were actually only about 14 minutes when you factor in the fake ads before and after and the opening and closing credits.

Some fake ads like Log and Powdered Toast man wouldn't have hurt either. Make it feel more familiar like the old show. But producing shorts would require more organization than Spumco is capable of.

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>>89748902
I would respect this comment so much more if it wasn't you boco.
Because I hate you.
Because we hate you.

>>89775032
I could swear she was born in '79 because she initially wrote to John K when she was 13, which in that case would have been in 1992 when R&S was at the peak of its relevance. But you could be right.

>>89751996
John strikes me as the kind of delusional mind who would think that just because time has passed Billy would have agreed to be in the R&S.

>>89775151
Nah
Like early 2000s, maybe


https://boingboing.net/2006/05/22/john-k-and-katie-ric.html

>spend literal months working on Naked Beach Frenzy after Spike TV flat-out said they would not air it

>>89775151
Well, if she was 13, that would have made it 1995. Was R&S still on the air?

>>89759536
What were the vast majority of todays audiences who've never heard of Ralph Bakshi supposed to make of this episode?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5BHuFbSo80

>>89775290
Aw big deal, classic Simpsons referenced lots of stuff most 90s audiences didn't know about either.

>>89775290
>this man thinks he's the successor to 1940s Termite Terrace

>>89775269
Yes

>>89775290
Watch this and process that APC is much more like John's original vision of R&S than what we got on Nickelodeon...

>>89775264
Didn't Spike TV end up airing raunchier stuff than that episode?

>>89775488
>>89775290
I can only imagine how many times Nick had to shoot down stuff like this.

>>89775495
Yes but you see NBF had tits in it
So you know

Here's some potential lost media...

After R&S was cancelled but before Adult Party, VH1 rerans the series in an edited for time format during late nights. The reruns actually had host segments starring Billy West, introducing each episode and offering anecdotes from when he recorded them.

The only thing I remember about the Billy West host segments is that he was wearing blue jeans and, more than once, he apologized for the edits and said it was because there are more commercials now than in the early 90s.

Are the Billy West host segments lost forever?

>>89774853
>throwing a DVD in the garbage
>not donating or selling it
Bitch, I paid 20 bucks for my copy.

>>89774988
feminism XD

>>89775652
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEZuE-gm9QM

http://www.animationmagazine.net/events/hollywood-honors-john-k-kricfalusi-talks-new-ren-stimpy/

>>89775290
The fire chief is a hilarious character, and I thought this before knowing who Bakshi was outside of "the Fritz guy."

>>89766465
Wrong. TV cartoons in the 60s were storyboarded as were Disney features made at the time.

>>89775723

WTF Billy West's normal speaking voice is just Fry?

>>89775795
Yep
And his Doug voice was just his voice when he was going through puberty

>>89775870
>>89775795
Truly the man of a thousand voices

>>89760121
Not with you on the Games episodes. The animation quality drops severely and a lot of episodes are weird, mad or mediocre. There are some decent ones but the whole thing feels neutered.

>>89760278
Billy was originally planned to do the voice of Ren and carried on doing the character when John was fired.

It cannot have taken that many takes for Billy to do a scream that sounded like Ren.

>>89775794
Yes, I was very certain that there were no writing-driven cartoons before the 80s. Also most Nick and CN shows have always been storyboarded, aside from the occasional show like Hey Arnold that had scripts.

JohnK explicitly disliked Tiny Toons for being a scripted show--in fact, it was one of the very first cartoons to do it.

>>89775985
>the whole thing feels neutered.

I can meet with you on the reduced animation quality (totally true) or the jokes that didn't land (more frequent than with Spumco for sure), but neutered?

Jeez, the Games episodes were relentlessly dark. Egg Yolkeo ended with Ren's son whimpering "I love you daddy" as he died and the punchline to close out the cartoon was Ren weeping. Hermit Ren was nuts and included Ren swinging a mummified corpse as a bludgeon after hallucinating that it was talking to him. And there's that episode where Stimpy goes through the stages of grief as he accepts his impending death. The moral of the episode was "Death is life's great reward".

The Games episodes were a step down in quality, but they certainly weren't neutered in terms of content.

>>89765844
because Bakshi was his mentor when he got into the industry, and has been his friend for about as long

>>89765975
it's a shame Bakshi never did anything with The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, they would have been a perfect fit for his style

>>89776028
Rugrats had writers, didn't it? I could swear from the 10th anniversary behind the scenes special on Nick that they did.

>>89776133

Screenplay-first was the norm for cartoons long before the 90s, anon.

He-Man was script-first, storyboard-second and that was the early 80s. Transformers, G.I. Joe... all the toy-based cartoons of the 80s were script-driven. Shit, the Disney afternoon shows were script-centric, too.

The concept of the "animation writer" IS a fairly new thing that really didn't come into vogue until the early 80s when syndicated, cheaply outsourced, merch-driven cartoons became the norm.

Arguably, they wouldn't exist if the landscape of animation hadn't shifted so drastically in the late 70s and early 80s, encouraging quickly produced and cheaply made cartoons to fill bloating timeslots.

Board-driven shows didn't start to make a comeback until the early 90s, when series like Dexter's Lab and PPG etc. began to supplant the dying first run syndication medium (which had favored script-driven shows).

>>89776225
>The concept of the "animation writer" IS a fairly new thing that really didn't come into vogue until the early 80s when syndicated, cheaply outsourced, merch-driven cartoons became the norm.

As in having dedicated writers rather than the show's producers/animation directors writing the dialog.

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>>89760844
Early Simpsons may have been crude but still involved a lot of drawing and cartooning. They employed a lot experimental angles and 'camera' direction and when the moment called for it, used wild expressions.

On the other hand there are just as many scenes where the characters stand around, expressionless, letting the dialogue and voice actors do the work.

Not to mention the show had a reputation for toning down animation and having lots of strict rules. They had a thick book about the do's and do not do's of animating The Simpsons, rivaled only by King of the Hill (Now THERE'S a show that could have just as easily been live action).

You also have to separate Simpsons then from Simpsons now. The latter being so dead and lifelessly animated that no animator would ever want to work on such a stifling show.

Family Guy has never had good animation period. In the early days it was wiggly, bland and akward looking. These days it's digital and lifeless. I guess technically you couldn't do it in live action because of the talking dog and random cutaways but it doesn't really make a case for 'taking advantage of the medium'.

Overall I think there are more better storyboard driven cartoons than there are script driven ones but it really comes down to different approaches and the kind of show you want to make.

>>89750110
>>89750118
How long ago was this? It feels like just yesterday.

>>89761033
Why? What in that episode makes it something only a cartoon could do? The only thing I can think of is that we're seeing younger versions of the characters but it's not like sitcoms never do that either with younger actors or making up actors to appear younger.

>>89776310
Years ago, around the time of Strip Search, 2013.

>>89772887
A lot of John K's theories make sense on paper. His opinions of what makes quality entertainment are pretty sound. But something get's lost in translation between theories and his finished work.

There's also something in him that can't accept characters just saying something funny.

>The simpsons is just a Honeymooners ripoff
He must be thinking of The Flintstones.

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>>89776307
>You also have to separate Simpsons then from Simpsons now. The latter being so dead and lifelessly animated that no animator would ever want to work on such a stifling show.
This is just so bad in every conceivable way.

>>89761600
With the exception of animated sitcoms, storyboard driven cartoons are the industry norm.

>>89776310
2012

http://dummcomics.com/2012/03/22/screw-up/

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>>89755716

>>89776441
Like I said, Tiny Toons and Animaniacs were scripted and John K thought they were the worst thing ever. "Hurp, this isn't animation, it's a vehicle for snarky writers to rip on society."

>>89776422
>But something get's lost in translation between theories and his finished work

If someone holds his hand and stops him from doing stupid/unreasonable stuff, then yes, his theories do translate into product.

>>89761141
I sincerely believe John K is a cartooning genius but genius alone doesn't always result in great art.

Orson Welles is recognized as a genius but that doesn't make all of his work the pinnacle of cinema.

John and Orson have a similar career path i think.

Both got a shot early in their career to make something exactly the way they wanted with little to no interference from the network (Kane and R&S, respectively). The results are recognized for their significance and artistry but were highly controversial on their release.

Fights with studios who recognize their talent but worry about the avante guarde nature of the work they make try to interfere and make the works more palatable for the public.

Later works aren't met with as much critical praise but more cited for their wasted potential.

They end up doing work wherever they can find it. Commercials, short films, cameo appearances. They never achieve mainstream success again in their lifetimes.

>>89750700
Zapp doesn't sound like Phil Hartman at all. Hartman didn't have that staccato-like speech pattern with hanging onto vowels the way Zapp does, he had a much more meandering type of voice. The only similarities are that both Zapp and Troy McClure have that old radio announcer style to them, but that's not Hartman's regular speaking voice.

>>89761631
It's like the more animation trends towards on model generic animation the further he rebels with super weird off model animation to a fault.

>>89776562
That's not true in John's case. What happened with R&S is that the network very much _did_ have to reign him in because he kept trying to do stuff that was inappropriate for a kids show. APC is what happens when the inmate was allowed to run the asylum.

>>89762116
>>89762017
>>89761995
Good drawings and actually funny scene.

I TOLD YOU I'D SHOOT
BUT YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE ME
WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME

>>89760926
a lot of storyboard shows have that problem of suddenly END, just watch a few episodes of Dexter's lab

>>89776634
>APC is what happens when the inmate was allowed to run the asylum.
You're ignoring that TNN told him to make an edgier R&S. They didn't just tell him to continue R&S as normal and it just ended up that way.

>What happened with R&S is that the network very much _did_ have to reign him in because he kept trying to do stuff that was inappropriate for a kids show.
They did a piss poor job then because a lot of what came after John left was just as crude, if not cruder.

>>89764164
>"You're the pitcher, I'm the catcher" was originally supposed to lead to them playing baseball
Now that would have been some good misdirection.

Stimpy's Pregnant would have been better if the pacing were better (the birth didn't need to be drawn out so long, kinda ruined the punchline that Stimpy was just constipated) and if they'd gone with the proposed scene tat would have replaced the Stimpy eating scene which wasn't that funny.

It was going to involve Stimpy being insatiably horny and pulling Ren back into the bedroom every 5 seconds. Ren tried to escape and his little bug friends grab his hands and try to rescue him but it's no use.

Ren Seeks Help had the best premise but the whole meat of it is just Ren torturing a frog. Sorry to sound like Mr. Enter but that was gratuitous.

Again the problem is pacing. If the episode were shorter we could get from one torture gag to the next quicker and it may have been funnier and less cruel.

>>89775073
log and ptm were the only good things to ever come from ren and stimpy. but they were very good.

>>89764271
The designs became too flat and graphic in the Games episodes but the APC cartoons were too anatomical and detailed. The Spumco seasons of the original show struck the right balance.

That and if John had been strictly limited to 11 minute shorts like he was on Nickelodeon, a lot of the bullshit on APC would have been avoided.

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>>89764597
The big ears were a great part of his design. APC he turned into a little Jiminy Man. Whatever the hell that means.

>>89764568
Interesting fact: All the episodes you mentioned started at Spumco.

Some, like Insomniac Ren, were just at the premise stage, but the baboon one, A Yard Too Far, was already totally boarded and ready for animation.

>>89764475
Was it a disaster though? It just seemed like the safer toned down version of Ren and Stimpy. It was always on time because nobody care that much about the animation direction or timing. They just outsourced it to Rough Draft and accepted however it came back.

>>89775723
Jesus he looks terrible with that goatee

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>>89764565
I rewatched a lot of it recently and it's didn't hold up as well as people tell me.

Bruce Timm and his team are excellent artists but only so much of that comes through in the animation which was outsourced to korea. A lot of it was awkward and stiff and frankly looked not much unlike a Filmation or Dic animated show.

I prefer Bruce Timms Batman comics. You get his perfect artwork unfiltered as well as the solid writing.

>>89764986
That's the main attraction to APC for me, tonnes of great drawings

>>89765249
No 'Gouge your eyes out' scene. Feels bad man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eonh97d-t4U

>>89764540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfbuUycffhQ
Please stop this, Bob

>>89765495
You can definitely see how the character was written to be one of Hartmans characters but Wests voice for the character is very different.

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>>89765695
These are all terrible. Just about every episode that was conceived and produced solely at Games are just bad.

>>89776085
I don't know about that. He's praised a few writers from Tiny Toons and he enjoys the style. He for sure dislikes the idea that it gave the story direction to a bunch of non-cartoonists, but he did admit that they still were funny and had emotion in the show.

>>89758088
If he grew a mustache he'd look like Doug Winger.

>>89777281
He did work on TT for a bit. Hence the usual bias >>89767437

>>89774670
I hope you don't mean the log-sawing scene when you say 'literally'

>>89777118
>>89777379
The only thing worse than this is there are actual fans of these episodes

>>89777397
Which is odd because the ratings for R&S basically tanked in Seasons 3-5.

>>89777118
Yeah, that. It's just like post-movie Spongebob when the original crew left and got replaced by new writers who decided to make every episode into bizarre, disgusting, dark shock material like Squidward's Toenail, and completely failed to grasp how the show was supposed to work.

>>89775652
I've got the Ralph Bakshi Honeymooners wraparounds from when Stimpys Pregnant wasn't ready in time for the airdate
https://vimeo.com/196180747

>>89777431
Relatively speaking. They weren't as popular as Rugrats or Doug, but they were still doing okay.

>>89777453
I remember watching this when it first came on

>>89765307
I have the complete series DVD and could have sworn they kept the Deliverance joke in

>>89764540
>>89764475
As Bob Camp recalled it (because he volunteered for the sucker job of arguing with network suits over the phone), Nickelodeon's content restrictions were wildly inconsistent and could vary from one week to the next. Like one week, it was ok to show bare buttocks and the next week, it was a no-go. Or you could say the word "hell" one week and not the next.

Where's that big list of spontaneous John K. character designs that are all hideous and fucking retarded?

>>89777533
The Simpsons was just as bad. They showed Homer's butt a million times, but up to Season 6, Fox would not allow any of their shows to say the word "gay" or even acknowledge the existence of homosexuals at all. Then when they did Homer's Phobia, new Fox execs greenlighted the episode.

But then, at the same time, they got less tolerant of nudity and Simpsons after Season 7 had far less nude scenes.

Seems like the right thread of ask this
What does /co/ think of Ripping Friends?

>>89777631
I watched it more than Ren and Stimpy and thought it was funny/weird. It was good.

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I wonder who this could have been about..?

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>>89777570
This one?

>>89776551
I agree, although I'm sure the network impeded production sometimes (greenlighting something, then changing their minds), the boundaries made the work stronger. They had to find clever or weird replacements for overtly vulgar lines.

>>89777631
It wasn't good

The voice acting is pretty garbage in APC
John K's Ren sounds off because his voice aging
and the guy that got for Stimpy is pretty bad

>>89777777
WASTED

>>89777570
john needs the cute to help contrast with the ugly and that's why his old cartoons worked better.

>>89777573
damn now I can't j/o to fat homey ass