Finally reading A Death in the Family made me realize how fucked

>>89658715
When I finally got around to reading it, the part that got me was his Mother was standing there smoking while the Joker beat him with the crowbar. His fucking MOTHER! And she let it happen! Like, what the hell, DC?

>>89659011
>>89658715
i wish they did more with the fact that his mother never cared about him

>>89658715
It was one guy.

One fucking lawyer voted 80 times and changed the outcome. If not for that guy, Jason Todd would live.

>>89658715
>Finally reading A Death in the Family made me realize how fucked up it was that people actually voted to have Jason Todd killed. That was really fucked up.
The only reason he was given the option to be killed off was because he was unpopular. And that unpopularity lead to his death. For what it was worth the DC staff didn't really think he would die either, but the voters made their decision.

>>89659063
dodged a bullet there

>>89659086
He was only unpopular among Dick riders.

I was one of the ones that voted and I stand by it even today. Fuck that insufferable little shit!

The whole poll thing was a scam
There was no poll
It was just a marketing gimmick to get people involved

Jason "German for Death" was always meant to die

>>89658715
Even then, the power of butthurt was absolute.

>>89659286

what's Nova got to do with anything

>>89659347
prove it

>>89659295
I hope someone votes to have you killed!

>>89659347
>The whole poll thing was a scam
>There was no poll
Actually, the poll system was brand new and it costs money to call. The system is too new to be a scam, as basically the very idea of a poll decision was exciting. Yiou have to remember how long ago this was. This isn't like getting likes on Facebook.

>>89658715
>how fucked up it was that people actually voted to have Jason Todd killed
best $2.99 I ever spent over the phone
fuck Jason and fuck you

>>89658715
>That was really fucked up
And not the part where Joker became the Iranian ambassador to the UN?

>>89658715
people were just sick of everyone dying and coming back to life, to say nothing of endless miraculous saves

>>89661439
At that time year? Not really.
Why do you think Death of the family is known better than the death of Dick or Damien?
Also, did the kid do something so bad that people actually can post something like
>>89660588
>>89659295

Even the shittiest character doesn't makes you think like that. It's sounds like personal hate to me.

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>>89658715
>>89659011

>>89663168
>Also, did the kid do something so bad
It's before my time, but my understanding is that the new guy get compared to the far more popular Nightwing, and he was an arrogant prick of a child. He had big shoes to fill as the new Robin and he failed it.

>>89663250
>and he was an arrogant prick of a child. He had big shoes to fill as the new Robin and he failed it.
Sounds like a regular replacement character to me.
And that enough to made people hate him to death is baffling to me.

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>mfw Batman actually left Joker to die.

See!? It's not unbelievable! Fucking later writers.

>>89663355
>And that enough to made people hate him to death is baffling to me.
It was the first time readers had the power over characters. The question isn't how many people cared enough to kill him, but how many cared enough to pay real money to SAVE him?

Evidently those who don't want him to die, wasn't wiling to put money down to prevent it.

>>89660588
nigga you old and salty.

>>89663404
>Evidently those who don't want him to die, wasn't wiling to put money down to prevent it.
That's true. But that's not what I'm baffled about.

I'm baffled by this.
>>89660588
>>89659295
It's really sounded like they hates him more than his failure as Robin. You sure he hadn't done something worth that hate?

>>89663364
Batman was straight up going to murder him in the heat of the moment and Superman had try and talk him down

>getting this invested into funny books
Jesus, man, get control of your life

>>89661432
Yeah that part really confused me when I first read Death in the family. It just seemed so strange to have that happening right after.

>>89664542
Starlin is a hack. A HACK!

O'Neil would later repeat the claim with further specifics: "I heard it was a lawyer who was using a MacIntosh and lived in California—I obviously don't have hard information on this, but I heard someone out there programmed his computer to dial it every couple of minutes, and since there was only about 65 votes that made the difference, if that story is true, that guy, that guy killed Jason Todd!"

>>89667059
And the guy must really wanted him dead, to pay the costs of the 1900 calls.

I mean, let's face it, nearly any kind of character have anti-fans. People who hated a character and wanted him or her dead. And if you really hated enough, you just might be willing to pay a few hundred dollars to kill him off.

>>89658715
That was the first time comic fans revealed their bloodthirsty sociopathic nature to the world.
It would not be the last.

>>89659063
seriously?
source?

Why did fans hate him?

>>89658715
Wasn't it reported that the voting let people vote multiple times which tipped the scale toward death?

>>89669101
>Wasn't it reported that the voting let people vote multiple times which tipped the scale toward death?
Well yeah, but it is PAID calls. So you CAN vote multiple times, but your phone bill would add up. And DC Comics get a share of the money. So are you willing to do >>89667395 ?

>>89658715
You gotta remember that people REALLY hated Jason.

Mantle characters were still a new thing. People didn't want a different character to be called by an existing character's title unless they were radically different, like Hal Jordan and Alan Scott.

What you feel when you look at femThor or Jokerface or whatever is what people felt back then. But the industry didn't have a "angry fans=sales" philosophy then.

>>89661432
The exact moment I stopped reading Batman.

>>89663555
>You sure he hadn't done something worth that hate?
He was exactly what Damien or Silk were not long after their introduction. Shitty characters nobody wanted or asked for. Writers pets.

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>>89669288
This.
And Robin #2 was one of the very first "legacy" characters who took over for another hero in their old costume.
Back then that part especially pissed people off. They were voting against the very concept of "legacy characters" as much as against Jason.

>>89658715
Yup. I was a junior high school student when that happened. I called the 900 number, the first time I'd ever dialed a 900 number, and voted for him to live.

I felt really bad for him. He had such a tough life, and then got fucking beaten to death by a bunch of adults.

That honestly fucked me up, reading that. I'm glad you made this thread so I could vent.

>>89659347
Todd isn't German, you fucking dolt. Tod means death, not Todd, which, you know, isn't a fucking German word.

>>89669691
Tod isn't a name, you fucking moron.

>>89659011
>implying many anons don't have a mother just like her.

>>89669636
It is fucked how it's taken so long a time for comics to come around the understanding and depicting that "bad seed" kids are products of bad environments and are also victims themselves.
Todd wasn't lucky enough to have two dead loving parents and a overly permissive butler to never tell him how to spend his inheritance.

Jason is best boy

>>89663250
So it's like if DC made a poll today to let people choose if Damian should die permanently

>>89658715

Why did Jason's father have Lady Shiva's contact information in his book? Was that part ever explained?

>>89670247

I have no idea if that was ever explained.
But I guess it was implied that Jason's dad dated Lady Shiva once.

>>89659295
Obama please leave.

>>89667395
I wonder how much hitmen go for these days.

>>89658715
If they held the vote today for Damian, what would you do?

>>89671409
I think between $20,000 and $30,000 is common.

>>89669035
NOT MUH DICK.

That was literally it.

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>>89671590
The calls were 50 cents so 1900 calls would be $950, not taking inflation into account. Granted it's a fictional character, not too shabby.

>>89671697
I'm pretty sure that taking out a hit on a real person costs less.

But would it be as satisfying?

>>89671409
You can kill anyone in Mexico with 50 dollars

>>89671758
More than likely not, unless it was some lifetime tormentor of yours.

Nevertheless, it's hard to miss out on the schadenfreude of the fans though.

>>89659347
O'Neil says it was a real poll.

>>89671439

They already focused a lot of time bringing Damian back from the dead. So no I wouldn't bother because it would feel unnecessary and cheap. At this point it's more interesting to keep the little jerk alive.

Although if they had not already killed him; I guess I'd vote if there was an option to have him quit being Robin for a while.

>>89671626

What's funny is that even the Teen Titans didn't like him because he wasn't Dick. When he joined them they were pissed off because he wasn't a strategist or a leader and he felt useless because he was a fighter/brawler. Then finally he did something that saved their butts and they liked him for that.

>>89672445
Damian's death was such a bullshit gimmick.
"Oh gee, it's too bad there's not some magic fountain that any relative of his can use to bring him back..."
And HOW he comes back? Was there any less of a Batman way for that to happen?

That whole thing was such a bad joke.

>>89658715
Some guy apparently rigged some sort of machine to keep repeatedly calling the number and voting for him to die so don't feel so bad.

>>89669636
You're a good guy anon. Thanks for trying.

>>89659295
>>89660588

Chillax grandpa, it's time to get off the computer and put on your haemorrhoid cream.

>>89659389
He meant fans of Dick Graysons

>>89668949

They've said for years they think it was someone with an auto-dialer in california. Telemarketers used to use them before the digital age. Its a very viable possibility

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>>89663364
>>89663557
I hate how they turned Joker and Batman into "Needing each other." It's so stupid.

>>89672589
Except they specifically spelled out that there weren't any pits left, which was a major plot point in the entire run. And though Batman usually refuses to consider using the pits because of the repercussions, in his grief he actually tried to.

>>89673155
That totally depends on the writer. In the Red Hood arc, Batman admits he constantly fantasizes about torturing the Joker to death over a few months.

And then there's that time in Morrison's run where Joker gets shot and Batman carries him off towards an ambulance before throwing him into the trash bin next to it.

>>89673155

I was glad that Batman snapped the Joker's neck while he was giving the "Need each other" speech in the dream sequence in Injustice.

Why in the world do people in the DC universe think it's wrong to kill the Joker? He is a psychotic murderer, a terrorist and always a threat. Batman had moments where he tried to murder Joker but someone like Gordan or whoever would stop him. Then there were moments where Batman went out of his way to stop people from assassinating the Joker.

And as for Injustice, why the fuck were people even upset when Superman killed the Joker? The Joker literally murdered about 11 million people.

>>89673155
Not every writer does it thankfully but the 90's is where that shit gained popularity.

No one says "Superman NEEDS Lex Luthor" or "Spider-Man NEEDS Green Goblin". I just don't get why the Joker is the one villain that gets singled out for all this gay crap.

>people actually getting triggered over voting to kill off a shitty character

What a joke

>>89673450
But they weren't given the option to kill Tim.

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Page where he lives.

>>89659459
Don't worry, Trump's already in office.

>>89673413
Injustice is batshit insane and ooc the comic. Batman is full on unapologetic gay for Joker and literally retarded. Wonder Woman is a slut and gives no fucks about peace and just wants Supercock. Superman is a roid raging retard that can't decide if he loves Bruce or doesn't.

If this was more like how the characters are usually portrayed. And Joker actually cause the shit he did in metropolis and no one was against Batman killing him, he would do. Joker wouldn't even need to do something that crazy. If Joker killed someone close to Bruce he would kill him. Batman even said that he was going to kill Joker after Babs was shot and paralyzed.

>>89673523
>Jason lives.
Man, can you imagine; instead of Jason dying at the hands of The Joker, he lives. So much would be changed in the DC world.

>>89673705
The bizarre thing is that after all this him surviving would have drastically changed the character and how the readers viewed the character.
Before, he was this angry brat who didn't appreciate being Batman's sidekick, but if he survived something like this then all of that seems like clear thinking.
And for the readers who still hated him there's all this hell he's been put through, that should have satisfied their wrath a little.

As it was, him dying stopped the character development cold, and any fans that changed their opinion of him only did so because he became nothing more than a cautionary tale with his displayed costume in the cave as a constant reminder of how dark Batman's world had become. The characterization itself was forgotten.

I wonder if anyone in the DC offices gave it any thought at all how this would so drastically change the Batman mythos?

>>89658715
Wish there were an Elseworlds where Jason didn't die. I'd love to see how different it would be.

>>89659086
Actually, DC were pretty sure that he's going to die.

Here's a interview with Jim Starlin:
>JS: Well I always sort of felt that going out and fighting crime with a teenager that you dress in primary colors while you’re in the shadows wearing black and grey, well, that could only be termed child endangerment. So I was never big on using Robin. And when [my editor] Benny [O'Neil] came up with the phone-in gag about voting whether he lived or died, and they said, “Well, let’s do Robin” (because I had been pushing for it) it just sort of fell into place. And it worked out well. I never suspected, I never figured that the readers were going to want him to live, because I know what kind of ghouls you fans are, so we did the thing and it turned out they had all these pajamas and lunchboxes with Robin’s pictures on it, so within a couple months I was out of DC because I screwed up their merchandising department

>>89674123
You think they check in with Merchandizing when they decide who to bump off these days?

>>89663250
Funny thing, I actually read Jason's Robin run to discover what made people hate him and he wasn't arrogant at all. He was actually pretty insecure and tried his best to prove himself.

Now I'm pretty sure that some people hate him just because muh new character.

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>>89673523
>Batman's smile

>>89667395
Jason has seriously some passionate haters for some reason.

>>89674023
It amazing how different DCU would've been if Jason never died.

>>89674144
No because they all come back in a year

>>89674233
Yeah, why is that? Some dick fans have a melt down just because Jason is going to appear in Nightwing and Reddit can't shut up about how much they wish he stayed dead.

>>89670784
Man, Willis Todd was such a player.

>>89674305
Some Dickfans hate anyone who threatened their boy and reddit is full of them.

>>89673523
I think this finally saw print in an annual not long after the reveal in Under the Hood.

>>89670128
Not really, he doesn't have shoes to fill from Tim. No one cares about Tim.

People say they hated Jason Todd back then but when I got around to reading the comics it seemed like he wasn't that different from Batman the way both were written during the Starlin run.

I haven't read it in a while but wasn't his mother also there and he tried to save her despite her being a horrible person?

Starlin is cunt.

Oh for fuck's sake, Damianfag is here.

>>89674471
i love Jason and Starlin is cunt..

>>89672563
Don't go around twisting history like DC love to do.

The TT loved Jason, treated him like their younger brother and were really grateful for his help. The only one who was jerk to him was Cyborg and it wasn't because of "muh Dick".

And it was later changed to "Jason was horrible human being and TT couldn't stand him" narrative just to show that Tim was so much better than him.

>>89658715

Nobody really expected them to go through with it. But they did. And then they copped out.

>>89675594
Why did DC turned him into bad robin anyway? Wouldn't be more sad if he was a good kid who died tragically?

>>89676028
Part of it was to show how "awesome" Tim Drake is and mostly was to free Batman (and DC) from any blame by blaming Jason instead.

They have got better in the recent years tho and the narrative changed from "Jason is a bad Robin who deserved death" to "Jason is a noble kid who died tragically".

>>89659011
to be fair, it's not like she wa having a casual cigarette, she did seem genuinely uncomfortable while Joker was beating him with the crowbar

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>>89659295
>>89660588
Kinda nice to have some old-timers like you around.
Also, good call on the poll

>>89658715
didn't Rick Veitch make a comic that was kind of a response to Jason's death-by-poll?

>>89674123
That may just be Starlin. He went out of his way to avoid putting Robin in his stories until O'Neil told him he had to, and when DC had the idea to open a suggestion box of what character should get an extra special issue where they get AIDS, he literally stuffed the box full of "Robins".

Source, in case you think I'm bullshitting, although it's entirely possible Starlin is.

https://youtu.be/Lm3GpWTcERc?t=3m35s

>>89676462
Indeed, you guys are heroes for giving us Red Hood.

And who knows, maybe you also saved him from ending up like Tim.

>>89668949
Denny O'Neil himself. There was a guy with an autodial program that would call in and vote yes automatically every 90 seconds. This worked out to something like a couple hundred votes. Yes won by like 70-something votes.

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I seem to recall someone on here once saying that they voted for Jason's death back in the day because they wanted to see if DC would actually go through with it, and that a lot of people did it for the same reason

Wasn't it implied that Jason had killed a rapist? Something like the guy fell to his death, but Jason was there and Batman asked if he fell, or was pushed and jason was reluctant to give him an answer

>>89676825
DC actually got massages from fans saying that they only voted for him to die to see if they are going to do it, not because they hate him.

>>89674445
To answer your question, the mother was the one who set him up. The mother did help Jason ONLY after the Joker traps her with him too.

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>>89676720
That's a pretty good way to seeing things anon, I like you.

>>89676861
Yeah, "the Cult" if I'm not wrong.

>>89677117
>>89676861
The issue was "The Diplomat's Son" and it was indeed left ambiguous as to whether or not Jason pushed him.

>>89677136
Oh thanks, I always mixed that up for some reason.
Am not an englishman

>>89676028
Eh No one can do everything properly, at least one good thing New 52 did was redeeming him and now slowly he's back to the original personality.

>>89659063
Jason Todd was killed by the world's very first Samefag.

>>89677251
I think you misunderstood him. He was saying why Jason was turned into a bad robin when he was dead and made it look like no one could stand him.

>>89677385
Yeah, that's what I meant actually.

And this anon answered my question >>89676184

>>89677385
I didn't misunderstand anything, but it seems you have.

>>89677418
Don't know why the fuck are you answering as me.

>>89677455
>Don't know why the fuck are you answering as me
Uh what? I'm this anon >>89676028 and I wasn't answering as you. I was just clarifying that I was wondering why they made him a bad Robin when he was dead despite the fact that he was a good one during his run as Robin.