>the creation of the Avatar was a random accident instead

Think of it this way,if everything had gone the way /co/ wanted it to then it would get boring as fuck fast,Bryke was trying to spice things up to make it more interesting

>>89597661
How about an actually competent storyteller?

coughAaronEhaszcough

>>89597612
Had to start the cycle somewhere. Wan's story felt like a classic piece of mythology.

>>89597723
This is exactly what I mean,y'all wanted the Legend of Korra in your own image,to your own expectations but don't seem to realize that the plot twists would be pointless since you would have expected it already,therefore making it a predictable product

>>89597741
This. I really don't get the problem with it. Wan was probably the best part of Korra.

>>89598056
It allowed for the rest of Korra as it ended up being namely the final episodes of season 2, and loss of mysticism overall even during the Wan episodes.

The only reason many people liked the Wan part was because it WASN'T Korra.

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>>89597612
why dont you become an international success by telling a better story anon?

>>89597612
>>89597723
>"god/cosmos wills it" is good writing

>>89597849
>y'all wanted the Legend of Korra in your own image
Do you mean good or anything like ATLA? I just want the same competent and creative people who made a show I love to make a sequel. Instead we got the shitty vanity project that's LoK

>>89598163
dues ex machina IS good writing though

>>89597612
>how can people fuck up this hard
Sums up korra in general pretty well

>>89597612
We most thing are born from accidents.
Like 99% of the Earth's population.

>>89598210
Shut up Nero, go burn a city or something

>>89598163
>10 years later people are still praising ATLA
>3 years later people are still disappointed and disliking LOK
>"god/cosmos wills it" is good writing
Well, at the very least, people can talk about it fondly and create things with it.

>>89597741
Maybe, but the cycle should've been started either by some genuine higher spiritual authority or a completely natural event, to justify the Avatar's place in the universe as the protector of peace and balance, which were very important ideas in the setting. Now he's just something this dipshit did after he irrevocably broke the old order.

>>89598132

no funds dear

>>89598163
>someone has to be the balance between the spirit world and the physical plane. That person has a heightened spiritual presence which allows them to bend the elements

VS

>some dude who stole punch magic from each village and lived innawoods started the cycle

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>>89598244
>>3 years later people are still disappointed and disliking LOK
>people are still disappointed and disliking LOK
>> people

3 guys who shitpost on /co/ hardly count as the masses considering the show is still talked about while others have been long forgotten

>>89598256
>>89598269

I agree with these idiots. Human agency has no place in myths.

>>89598260
investors are easy to come by. How do you think bryke got fundings?

>>89598269
second one sounds more original and not completely over used

>>89598269
>some dude that stole punch magic but chose to use it for good and become a medium between man and spirit instead of abusing his powers

VS

>it had to be like this

>>89598294

human agency is not the problem.

is the agent we got in this particular case.

>>89598256
> Now he's just something this dipshit did after he irrevocably broke the old order.

Most gods in legends are usually just that. That being said, realism doesn't necessarily translate to satisfying narratives and the whole Harmonic Convergence garbo was anything but that.

Really I think that's the biggest issue; try took a really neat Eastern philosophy inspired concept of the Avatar and dumbed it down to "muh destiny, muh dark/light side" They were very clearly winging it by season 2 onward since the Amon storyline was the best thought out AND was originally suppose to go for two seasons. Thank Nick for fucking that up.

>>89598294
You have no idea what you're talking about
Best and the most interesting myths have gods that aren't infallible benevolent beings but instead are almost human, that make mistakes and have their own ambitions

>>89598323
The second breaks the rules that have been established. Bending is a martial art that you have to train vigorously to learn. With Wandering it's just you punch the air and fire comes out. It's not how new and original you are but how well you tell a story

>>89598350
Two seasons wouldn't have saved it. The pay off was shit regardless and an extra season meant more drama that no one cares about

man, I remember all the cool theories about the first avatar back in the day before Korra.

I can confidently say 75% of those theories were better than the Wan-Raava stuff.

>>89598344
>>89598360

I'm agreeing with you. A human making mistakes and having their own ambitions is just fucking awful writing. It needed to be a god with a sick character design. Then the myth would have been good.

>>89598390
Nah I think it would. You wouldn't have rushed through the story so fast and it would have allowed some breathing space for the characters to actually develope. This is especially true for Mako/Bolin/Asami since by season 2 onward they're bit players as opposed to central protagonists.

The issue with s1 is that they tried to cram a whole two seasons of events and twists into one season which is why the Amon plot was unsatisfying since for the first half we almost solely focused on the bending sport and relationshit.

>>89598363
>Bending is a martial art that you have to train vigorously to learn


The fuck are you talking about? You're born a bender . Fucking Moon goddess isnt some tai chi master. The entirety of the avatar involves spirits, not kung fu. you cant karate chop your way into linking with a chain of your past lives.

they didnt break the rules because theyre the ones that wrote them

>>89598452
And yet the characters hanging out is what /co/ kept on wanting and drawing street rats Mako and Bolin fucking the Avatar.

What was needed was a melding of the characters and the plot similar to what AtLA did, tying in the Gaang's adventures to the overarching goal. The brothers were unnecessary and filler from the get-go since they were tied to a sport that didn't add anything to the setting nor to their own agency.

>>89597612

That Wan story was fuckin cash tho, mong

>>89598514
>And yet the characters hanging out is what /co/ kept on wanting and drawing street rats Mako and Bolin fucking the Avatar.

Yeah but you're missing my point, its not them hanging out that was the issue, it was them hanging out and then suddenly OH SHIT, EQUALISTS and then we have to go through the finale. If there was enough allotted time to properly pace the season it wouldn't have felt so rushed, and the twists could have been thought out and planted better like in ATLA.

>What was needed was a melding of the characters and the plot similar to what AtLA did, tying in the Gaang's adventures to the overarching goal. The brothers were unnecessary and filler from the get-go since they were tied to a sport that didn't add anything to the setting nor to their own agency.

Eh, you can make ANY plot work and meld into the central plot to be honest. You just need the proper pacing and so on. Given that the final rest for the s1 storyline was a twelve episode arc, I would agree that perhaps some fat trimming was very needed.

>>89598350
You got it backwards pal. Korra was initially a 6-8 ep mini series. The sheer hype around the series got Nick to order an extended season and to keep the show going. So Bryke decided to fill the extra time with pointless shit and it noticeably fucked the pacing

>>89597849
We knew from the get-go that Aang would defeat Ozai. Does that mean ATLA is shit?

>>89597612
Because people forget shit after ten thousand years

>>89598196
>I just want the same competent and creative people who made a show I love to make a sequel

That might be part of the problem. LoK was never meant to be a sequel. It's a spin-off.

>>89598636
my head canon says otherwise

>>89598595
Its been a while so I might have to check and get back to you. If that's the case then that's even more disheartening.

>>89597612
>hiw can people fuck up
They didn't. Avatar is not your property you entitled brat

>>89597612
We know Korra was a mess despite having the popularity and all the tools to succeed and the hype machine behind it. Do we really need daily threads to discuss every single detail about it that failed or missed the mark somehow? LoK is becoming /co/'s dark knight rises

>>89597612
>how can people fuck up this hard
1) Make something good with massive editorial oversight
2) Mistake quality as being solely due to the creators and not editorial oversight and quality of the rest of the creative team
3) Give the creators free reign with a different team and no real oversight

It's happened again and again. Just look at George Lucas and John K.

>>89598588
>If there was enough allotted time to properly pace the season it wouldn't have felt so rushed, and the twists could have been thought out and planted better like in ATLA.

There was no planning. They wanted the opposite of Aang and that was the extent of their planning.
Then the thought process seems to be that you need a Team Avatar so people that have no purpose stuck around and ended up having to be given stuff to eat up time and budget because they were already there before.

>>89598728
>Do we really need daily threads to discuss every single detail about it that failed or missed the mark somehow?
Some people come around and defend Bryke's writing, as you can see from some above posts.

>>89598510
You're born with the ability to bend but not the skill. Season 1 Katara is a bender but all she could really do is small stuff, what she needed was training. If it were just punch the air Aang and all the previous Avatars wouldn't have needed to train to learn the elements.

>they didnt break the rules because theyre the ones that wrote them
Bryke didn't solely create Avatar

>>89597661
>/co/ wants an interesting and fun story
>this somehow makes it boring

That doesn't make sense anon.

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>>89598391

>In the dawn of civilization, bending was discovered.

>Air from the Sky Bison, at the ceiling of the world.

>Water from the Moon, in the night's sky.

>Earth from the Badgermoles, deep beneath the mountain.

>And Fire from the Dragons, at the Sun's den.

>The gifted were revered and respected, until they grew proud.

>And the castes were born.

>The gifted rallied together, and seized power for themselves.

>Those without element were relegated, and deemed unfit.

>They would serve, or be purged from this world.

>The gifted who dissented were shunned and exiled.

>Hope was lost.

>But then...the spiral began.

>>89598275
I usually see complaints about the show and a few people who liked the lesbian part but thinks the rest could have been way better.

>>89598990
>No one ever went to the top of the structure and saw the first known Avatar and kite thing behind him.

>No one ever wondered about this.

>No one ever asked.

Well that just raises further questions.

>>89598990
Look at all those Avatars that don't matter anymore.

Goddamn Season 2 still makes me mad.

>>89598510
You can write a rule and then break it. And the martial arts instructor for Atla has said that they started breaking the rules in LoK.

>>89599043
/u/ are the only ones who liked the final parting shot.

tumblr, reddit, YouTube comments, comments on anything Bryke do that has a comment section, other boards on 4chan, other chan boards - 7 and the like, facebook, the animators of the show itself, all have more negative than positives that they have discussed about the show.

>>89597661
>a bastardized ying and yang story is non-boring and fun

>>89597612
I was pretty pissed that they retconned the Avatar being the incarnation of the world spirit. This shit didn't make any sense.

>>89598636
Nor was it supposed to be a huge fucking retcon

>>89599123
Sifu Kisu posting about how he didn't know what was going on with the martial arts and choreography is both hilarious and disheartening.

Bryke really did want to break the eras in two; but still have fanservice to fall back on and mimic the beats of the original show.

>>89599091

I'm sure the first few generations knew about it. But those that did probably only knew about it via word of mouth. Written language had probably not been invented yet and by the time it did, most stories about Wan were probably lost. I wouldn't be surprised if the only written tomes left about Wan were appropriated by Wan Shi Tong centuries ago.

>>89599223
I mean during Korra's time.

Restoring the temple. Walking up and making sure each statue is okay. Get to the top and people wonder why a tapeworm is surrounding the person at the top.
>Let's ask the current Avatar
Current Avatar: I don't know. Mentor, do you know?

And suddenly season 2 never happens and the only disappointing thing that is guaranteed is the first season.

What's with these late-to-the-party avatar threads? Are people finally watching it and ending up disappointed or are they just now realizing how shit Kora was?

>>89599128
I agree with you, but there are also a lot of comments on tumblr and youtube that are positive mostly about the ending, and not so much about everything else.

Not that internet comments matter all that much.

>>89599280
It's not shit. Just look at all the people who say otherwise!

>>89597661
>>89597741
>>89598056
>>89598132
>>89598163
>>89598228
>>89598275
>>89598323
>>89598510
>>89598586
>>89598629

>>89599304
>Not that internet comments matter all that much.

>This thing is terrible
>Really? Well it's available for free online so let me see what's so terrible about it.
>Oh dear, it really is terrible. Good thing I didn't buy anything having to do with it.
>Not that internet comments matter all that much.

>>89599168
I found it more strange that they hired a tricking guy to help them with martial arts jumping. That's the reason for all the spining kick and jump punching in LoK.

>>89599094
Wait why the hell don't they matter?

>>89598260
the answer of a coward.

>>89599277

I thought you meant regardless of the time. My theoretical scenario still stands. People could've (and probably did) go up there for maintenance, and probably did ask questions. Nobody was able to answer because any records about Wan were probably gone.

As for Avatars, going by Aang and Korra, it seems Avatars seem to prefer contacting their most immediate predecessors. Which, I guess after almost 10,000 years of generation after generation, talking to all of your predecessors at once could get a little crowded. I guess most Avatars didn't really care about their past lives beyond how it could help them in the present. Their place was in the present, not exploring their deepest past lives.

>>89599384
Because they didn't matter to the current Avatar.

They matter to the audience because we lose out on history and stories. We know about them through interactions with the characters on the screen. But just killing them all for good eliminates this.

And as other anons are want to point out
>>89599420
who cares nowadays?

>>89599359
I doubt Nick or Bryke cares much about what people write on youtube etc.

>>89599384
Korra fucked up in Season 2 and severed the connection to the past lives, Aang included. So now the next Avatar would only have Korra's dumbass as a line of reference.

She also allowed the spirit world to mingle with the mortal world and basically Korra is a dumbass.

Is the Avatar series 100% done? No more after Korra?

>>89599569
I hope so

>>89599569
Avatar:The Legend of Sam Hyde

>>89599500
Why is it specifically about season 2 though? They didn't appear much in 1 either

>>89598391
Yeah I don't really get why people defend the Wan stuff. It's shit. It was always really underwhelming as fuck.

>>89599094
LoK done fucked up.

>>89599575
>>89599579
I just want my water and fire avatar. Sure Korra was the water one but she had a earth personality

>>89599569
I hope so

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>>89599569
No, this just came out

>>89599569

If what I've heard is true, yes, it's done. Byrke wants to leave Avatar alone. The only reason why they even bothered with Korra was because Nick asked/begged/bribed them into it. But yeah, supposedly Byrke has absolutely no plans whatsoever to touch back on Avatar again.

Which, to me, is fine. I'd like to see what else they could do.

>>89599765

>yang is still the only writer doing these.

doomed to mediocrity from the start

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>vatu opened the spirit portals, crating the spirit wilds and forcing humanity to seek refuge on the lion turtles.

>korra thinks its a good idea to leave them open again

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>>89597612
>the show didn't conform to my headcanon therefore it is bad

>>89599896
>vatu opened the spirit portals, crating the spirit wilds and forcing humanity to seek refuge on the lion turtles.
When was that stated?

>>89599934
maybe its bad

because its bad

>>89599896

Spirits were more unstable and wrecked Humanity's shit because it was a Harmonic Convergence that was in Vaatu's favor. By the time Wan came around, others had happened and Raava had since come out on top during some HC after Vaatu had broken into the material world. The state of the world wasn't specifically because the spirits were inherently dicks. Most of the spirits Wan interacted with at the oasis were pretty cool chaps. It's just that the damage was done from Vaatu's time in power and Humanity hadn't bothered to reclaim their own world until they were given bending.

>>89599958
>When was that stated?

Season two. Vaatu outright says he was the reason why Spirits are in the material world.

>It was I who broke the divide

>>89599958

>It was I who broke through the divide that separated the plane of Spirits from the material world.

t. Vaatu

>>89600088
>Spirits were more unstable and wrecked Humanity's shit because it was a Harmonic Convergence that was in Vaatu's favor

we don't know that actually.

>>89600005
If one gives an argument for it being bad then fine, but simply stating one's headcanon and then holding it against the show when it doesn't conform to that headcanon is cringy.

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>>89598586
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5gGEWqO_Ag

>>89600205

How the fuck else could he have don it if it wasn't a Harmonic Convergence that he won? He can't do shit when Raava has him in check. And did you not see how the other spirits behaved in relation to Vaatu's growing in strength? If he had won HC he ought to be able to influence ALL spirits and thus be the reason why they invaded the material world. It had to be because of a Harmonic Convergence in Vaatu's favor. There's no other conceivable way for it to be possible for Spirits to cross over and deliberately invade.

>>89600567

pretty easy actually.

it is conceivable that he broke through during a Harmonic Convergence fight that he ultimately lost.

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>>89597741
>>89598056
>>89598163
Yes, most mythologies revolve around 'gods willing it to happen'.

>>89600641

I'm inclined to disagree. I think he'd be too occupied with Raava to break into the material world. Also, if that weren't the case, and it is as you say it is, I'd think Raava would've been able to calm the other spirits before they went and invaded.

Naah. Vaatu won a Harmonic Convergence fight, then broke into the material world with a shit-ton of other spirits all coked up on chaos and wrecked Human civilization and basically took over the world until whatever following HC that he lost to Raava that was between his breach and Wan's time.

>>89600798

different possibilities exist, that is why I originally said we didn;t know what happened for sure.

it's all speculation.

>>89600798
But when Vaatu was defeated by Raava they could have fucked off back to the spirit world again. They chose not to do that, instead stay and keep humanity on the lion turtles.

>>89602657
>But when Vaatu was defeated by Raava they could have fucked off back to the spirit world again

By that point, they were effectively in uncontested land. There was no one telling them to fuck off back to the spirit world. Yes, they could've gone back. But why give up what is seemingly free real-estate?

>>89602754
Humanity was still hunting in those areas and needed the animals to live, spirits activly preventing people from gathering food because the spirit wilds are everywhere doesn't make them look like good well adjusted neighbours, quite the opposite.

The argument that Vaatu made the spirits evil doesn't hold if they keep doing what he "made" them do after he is defeated and kept in check.

>IRL humans pollute the environment until the world becomes less habitable
>avatarverse humans have spirits to be walking, talking environmental litmus strips to keep human industry responsible
You say it's a mistake now, but just wait until our world comes tumbling down.

>>89599142
>ying

>>89602821

We only saw one spirit do that. Apart from those actively corrupted by Vaatu, most spirits we saw were not aggressive to Humans without provocation. Cases of spirit on human fatalities was probably because of some kind of accidental provocation of the spirits, or humans directly attacking spirits on sight out of a terror induced panic.

Spirits found themselves in a new land and tried to make the best of it. Mankind were too paranoid and scared of them to consider them as anything but monsters out to kill them.

>>89597612
>the cosmology of ATLA is like yin and yang, polar opposites, as seen in the koi fish of the northern water tribe and the spirit portals
>LMAO korra and kuriva make a third spirit portal why not xd

>>89603048
The spirit wilds tried to kill wan several times before he even got to the oasis, and then he was turned away to go live in the spirit wilds that wanted to kill him.

The spirits invaded the human world under Vaatu, and kept it under Raava. They only went back when Wan told them to do it because he was the avatar, and only then could humanity progress and live in their own world again.

Regardless of how you put it, the spirits are in the wrong here, and they refused to ever do anything about it instead just continuing to take more and more land at the expense of everyone else.

>>89598056
I wouldn't have a problem with it, if it didnt fuck established canon in the rectum.

>>89603165
>The spirit wilds tried to kill wan several times before he even got to the oasis

>most spirits we saw were not aggressive to Humans without provocation.

>WITHOUT PROVICATION

>tried to eat some weird bee spirits
>tried to go to sleep on tentacle grass spirit
>stepped on some frog cunt

Each case of the spirits being aggressive toward Wan was because he provoked them. The only one who was actively a cunt to him without justified provocation was the caretaker of the oasis.

> they refused to ever do anything about it instead just continuing to take more and more land at the expense of everyone else.

You say that as though there were still humans NOT on lion turtles. By the time Raava had won HC, all of humanity were on lion turtles.

>The spirits invaded the human world under Vaatu, and kept it under Raava.

Because Humans were too shit scared of spirits to make peace with them and leave the lion turtles.

>They only went back when Wan told them to do it because he was the avatar, and only then could humanity progress and live in their own world again.

Because it was the best solution for both. He knew Humans would not shake their long held misconception that the spirits were out to kill all of mankind. Now that humans had power of the elements permanently, he knew that shit like what happened with his friend's village would happen again. Wan did it to save both Human and Spirit lives. Provided Spirits can actually be killed.

>>89603489
What does humans being afraid of spirits have to do with spirits keeping the land they stole from humans? They have agency, they can go back to their own realm when the evil lords power over them disappears. The spirits might have been forced to take over the material world, but they chose to keep it afterwards.

And the fact that Wan had to step in and force the spirits to see reason, to save both races just further proves that spirits aren't good for the world, with or without Vaatu interfering.

>>89603842
>What does humans being afraid of spirits have to do with spirits keeping the land they stole from humans?

The Spirits weren't keeping it, they were just staying because they had no incentive to leave. The Humans refused to leave the lion turtles and coexist so of course the spirits would just live about as they saw fit. Yes, the spirits forced mankind to the lion turtles, but not of their own will. When they came to, they had the whole world to themselves and continued to have it because it continued to remain vacant because Humans refused to leave the lion turtles.

>And the fact that Wan had to step in and force the spirits to see reason, to save both races just further proves that spirits aren't good for the world

At that time it wasn't good because Spirits were still regarded as vicious monsters. Wan had them leave because he knew Humans would start shit with them instead of trying to be cooperative.

Around Korra's time, it wasn't as bad because the old sentiments died out and those who did believe in the existence of the spirits largely regarded most of them as almost benevolent deities.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it was the best of ideas to throw spirits and humans all together. They don't NEED eachother as Unalaq and later Korra think they do. But spirits are not inherently the vicious cunts they're largely thought to be. They can be reasoned with and can coexist with. Humans in Wan's time just couldn't bring themselves to because they didn't want to understand them. Thus their leaving the world vacant for the Spirits to continue having all to themselves.

>>89604741
Humans wouldn't leave because spirits were a danger to their lives, humans would die if they left the lion turtles backs. This is not the humans fault, it's the spirits for being hostile to human life styles.

It wasn't good because Spirits are unwilling to compromise, we see this happening in RC aswell after Korra reintroduces them to the world.

>They can be reasoned with and can coexist with.
I disagree, the only time we see that working out is with Wan, but only because he becomes that one spirits pet. The others don't lift a finger to help humans or to even listen to them. Instead opting to Kidnap a group of humans when things don't go well for them, and when Korra tries to get their help afterwards, they refuse to help out.