So, we're all in agreement that this is the best comic

>>89456074
we're not but yes it is

>>89456074
No, it's not. The dialogue doesn't have the same life to it that other comics do. It has a very lifeless, dry element to it, like if one was listening to a physics lecture.

>>89456188
The dialogue?

>>89456188
>I'm tired of looking at the photograph now. I open my fingers. It falls to the sand at my feet. I am going to look at the stars. They are so far away and their light takes so long to reach us. All we ever see of stars are their old photographs.

Point invalidated.

>>89456265
Indeed. I think it's mostly due to the characters being stuck into rigid roles within the plot. It's great for theme, symbolism, metaphor, foreshadowing, structure, pacing, but the characters come off as speaking with the same voice (ironic, since Rorschach has a different pattern) and don't seem to live outisde of the world of the plot. I realise that every scene has to matter, but I like the little bits of dialogue where the characters talk about inncuous bullshit that still builds character but might not move the plot.

I think that in this respect, Garth Ennis' Preacher did a fantastic job with character dialogue and keeping that the primary focus, rather than the plot.

>>89456320
Other comics huh?

>>89456074
You know that by putting it that way you're going to get disagreement, right?

Anyways, it's good, I never liked the Dr. Manhattan stuff as much as the rest because I'm just not that interested in the problems of omnipotent people, but it's all fine.

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>>89456074
nah

>>89456074

comics better than Watchmen:

A Contract with God Trilogy
Maus
Persepolis
American Splendor
Love and Rockets
Strangers in Paradise
The Adventures of Luther Arkwright

>>89456395
>Maus
stopped reading there

>>89456074
No, and it kind of disappoints me that people consider it the medium's Magnum Opus.

Also, OP. From the way you say it, you make it sound like bait.

Why have there been so many Watchmen threads today?

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>>89456074
>One of Time Magazine's 100 Best Novels

oh man

>>89456074
There are hundreds of great comics, and personal taste means choosing one as the objective best is impossible.

Personally I think Hellboy in Hell (And issue #10 specifically) is one of the best out there, but someone else could say Love and Rockets was the peak of the medium.

>>89456382

He's not omnipotent he's not even omniscient, he just sees his own life and can do nothing to change it. I found him to be one of the most interesting characters i've ever read.

>>89456074

No, it most certainly isn't. I've only had it for about two years, and the spine is already coming unglued. Talk about poor quality comics!

>>89456395
>Persepolis

>>89456074
Comics are far and away my favorite form of entertainment, but in this case, I prefer the movie.

>>89456074
As far as capes go. Yes,
Maus and From Hell sit up pretty high for non-cape stories for me. (OPINION)

>>89456188
>>89456278
Bendis stop posting, you're not welcome here.

>>89456074
Watchmen was good, but I don't think it was as good as some of the arcs in WatchmeX.

>WatchQuest
>An Inkblot no More!
>The life and times of Adrian Veidt

It just did so much to expand the setting and the characters, and give us stories that couldn't be contained in the original Graphic Novel.

>>89456074
its a postmodern fuckjob that has lead to a lot of the destruction of fun in modern day books., but its a well written post modern fuckjob. it's just good. its over rated.

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>>89456074
No you fucking pleb.

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No.

>>89456074
Assigning numerical ranking to artistic quality is retarded

It's pretty great though

>>89458105
This. It's so patrician 90% of this board has never even read it.

>>89456074
that's not Fantastic Four 1-100

>>89456463

DC is making Watchmen part of its actual continuity.

>>89458344
It's always been a part of it. Learn to Bleed and Multiverse faggot.

>>89458255
More like it's never been reprinted and scanned pages are hard to find

>>89458344
Don't joke about it.

>>89458419
That is /co/'s fault for having shit taste. It's been storytimed here many times and the last time no one even bumped it and it got pushed off the board before the OP could get through a few issues so blame yourselves.

>>89456424
What would you consider the medium's Magnum Opus.

>>89458533
See >>89458105

It changed the way writer's handled story arcs and the content and tone.

>>89456463
More and more /tv/ fags are reading comics.
The problem with this is that they are still acting like a bunch of idiots.

>>89458388

multiverse and continuity are separate things faggot

>>89456395
>Strangers in Paradise
>Better than Watchmen

I like Terry Moore, but Strangers in Paradise is her weakest work.

>>89456074
No.
It's characters stand around telling you, the audience, how they feel and how deep everything is.

>>89458561
Every story in the Multiverse in the Bleed exist in continuity. Next you are gonna tell me DC reboots. You sound dumb as hell.

>>89458630
I don't think you've actually read the comic

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>>89456074
Fuck no.

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>>89458830
Sure, they're actually talking to each other when they're talking about how cool and deep their comic is, but they're generally looking straight forward at the reader. It's very clever and subtle.

>>89458498
>it's /co/'s fault moot (who?) changed the bumping rules
>it's /co/'s fault high quality scans of the comic are hard to find
>it's /co/'s fault the trades are even harder to find
I love the series to bits, but to say that the only reason /co/ hasn't read it is because of its own shit taste is like complaining /co/ hasn't read L'Eternauta because most of them aren't Argentinian

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>a rare image of OP

>>89458888
Now I know you didn't read the comic

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>>89458921
K.
You can just disagree with my feelings re the comic as opposed to just attacking whether my credentials on reading an extremely main stream comic.
It and DKR changed cape comics into the GRIM N GRITTY mess they were for about 20 years by people who didn't understand what the comics were trying to say even though they both were saying it very plainly in "Isn't this a bad and sad thing" way.

>>89456074
No. Life And Times Of Scrooge McDuck is.

>>89458388
Only in Sandman, where all thought and fiction is canon.

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>>89456074
No, counter argument:
This exists.

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>>89456074
Not even close.

>>89458715

but as SEPARATE UNIVERSES.
they're making it stop being separate.

I know you're being intentionally thick just to sound superior on the internet, so I hope you're really getting off on this.

>>89456383
patrician taste, anon

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>>89456074

No, because just like movies, music and regular books and other art, peoples opinions differ because its all subjective to personal taste.

Making top 10 lists and trying to decide "what is best" is what idiotic little shitheads do because they don't have an outlet for competition elsewhere, and their tastes are compliant on what their peer group deems acceptable.

>>89458975

and you try to convince people by posting edited crap bait images?

get a fucking grip dude.

>>89456760
I like it

>>89459151
No they arent you dumb fuck. What do you think Watchmen characters are going to start running around in the DC universe?

Way to fall for the troll posts. Johns said from the jump this won't be a JL vs Watchmen thing.

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...no

Overall, /co/ has good taste.

>>89460632
Hi Alan.

>>89461572
Overall, /co/ thinks that comics are a genre. /co/ has terrible taste.

>>89456395
>I took a 100 level comics course
I'm shocked you didn't include Fun home

>>89459576
>Johns said from the jump this won't be a JL vs Watchmen thing

right.
they're not going to fight each other.

>>89460632

Cerebus ran too long to be considered the best comic.
they're are decent sized stretches where the book is just the writer ranting about shit.

the art is nice throughout though.

>>89461701
>100 level comics course
>including American Splendor and Love and Rockets

>>89456760
there's nothing wrong with Persepolis.

>>89459064
this is a valid argument

>>89456074
yes in the sense that it needed to be written.

Alan Moore's only equal is Neil Gaiman and/or Mike Carey

>>89458419
Except it has been reprinted you massive tard.

>>89463228

Mike Carey doesn't get the love he deserves.
Lucifer is written off as part of Gaiman's works.

>>89463250
it was printed once as issues and once as trades

It's not even Alan Moore's best (From Hell) desu

>>89456383
>>89458991
Only correct answer imo

>>89459576
>. Johns said from the jump this won't be a JL vs Watchmen thing.

He lies

>>89456383
Why do people like these books? The only thing i can think of when I see them is Don Rosa autistically screeching about how great Disney comics are

>>89465739
Why do people like superhero comics?

Everybody has something that appeals to them but which seems like trash to someone else.

>>89465790
That's not really an answer

>>89465988
well, ask a stupid question etc

Do we all agree that OP should kill himself for making this shit thread over and over?

>>89466126
Are the characters well written or something?

>>89466424
Read the comic or something?

>>89466441
I'm just asking I don't really wanna buy the comic. Just curious why people love it so much.

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>>89466688
>I don't really wanna buy the comic
>buy

>>89466722
Fuck you buddy

>>89466688
>buying comics that aren't owned by their creators
Wew.

>>89466756
sorry i don't let my politics dictate whether or not i buy something. also reading comics on a computer is absolute pleb tier.

>>89466861
>absolute pleb tier
Guess what?

As someone who still hasn't read Life & Times yet, you're a member of that tier.

>>89459064
>>89463197
Jeezis this is casual.

>>89458552
>the serial corporate medium is the only part of the medium
>extremely vague reasons about the changes to that medium make a magnum opus
Yikes

>>89467046
O'Neil's Question is definitely in the running for best comic

even if anons are being retarded

>>89467046
The funny thing is, the comic which ACTUALLY "changed the way writer's handled story arcs" is >>89460632, which was one of the first comics (if not the first comic) where the trades became more important than the floppies, paving the way for today's market where stories are almost always written for the trade (usually in 6-issue clumps).

But even fewer people have read that than The Question, since it's even older, not about superheroes and not from one of our favorite publishers.

Yes. But I liked the movie more.
Fuck you, making Dr Manhattan into the fake-villain made way more sense than some squid monster with psychic powers.
Dr Manhattan was already god-like, that's terrifying enough

>>89467117
I love O'Neil's Question but I don't really think I'd even put it top 25.

>>89467133
Watchmen practically created the modern trade market single-handedly though

>>89467167
DKR as well.

>>89467133
Cerebus ended decades after O'Neil's Question.

>>89458105
Sandman Mystery Theater is better

>>89467191
but started well before

>>89467167
The first Cerebus collected edition came out in 1986, the first Watchmen collected edition came out in 1987.

Watchmen might have had more influence, but Cerebus beat them to it.

>>89467191
Cerebus began in 1977. Are you implying that nobody was influenced by Cerebus until after it finished?

>>89467218
being first doesn't necessarily mean it started the trend, although you could (correctly) argue that Cerebus's structure influenced Watchmen, which in turn created the trade market

>>89467200
That doesn't make it an "older" comic though. It's not a fucking CC Beck classic or something, they're contemporaries at best.
People don't read Cerebus because they either don't know about it or only know about it because of Sim's madness. Period.
And Cerebus is so important because it proved the non big 2 companies could survive on the direct market. The art is also 10/10 for 220+ issues.

>>89467218
No I'm implying that it being older is not a factor in it not being read because it was still relevant when the Question came out (actually way more so)

>>89467247
Except I'm not the only person who argues that Cerebus was the trailblazer in shifting the focus from floppy to trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebus_phonebook#The_Cerebus_Effect
(Not to be confused with Cerebus Syndrome.)

Remember, Watchmen only gave us a collection of a miniseries. Cerebus gave us the concept of collecting the entirety of serial ongoings.

>>89467269
Oh, sorry, I thought you were commenting on the first part of my post (the influence of Cerebus), not the second part.

No, and it's not the best capes have to offer either.

>>89456074
Nope, that would be Action Comics 775.

>>89466985
Without offering up another example, I'm assuming you think Watchmen is the best comic ever, which is even more casual

>>89467300
This, Moore literally has a better dark Deconstruction in Miracleman

>>89467349
All Marvel/DC British Invasion comics belong in the casual pile, to be honest.

>>89467366
Won't argue with that

>>89467366
>>89467384
it's time to stop posting

>>89467389
"Casual" doesn't mean "bad".

It's time for us to reclaim the word "casual" and it's time for you to stop being afraid of it.

>>89467349
I don't think Watchmen is the goat, I think it may be Cerebus if just for sheer scope and art quality.
However I think picking the "babby's first literary comic" is about as casual as possible. Its spinoff is better than it.

>>89467389
Casual just means casual, it doesn't mean shit. DKR is amazing, but its casual as fuck.

>>89467389
lots of great works in all forms of media are casual/entry level

>>89467399
I mean it's pretty safe to put Sandman and Watchmen and maybe Hellblazer into the casual pile, but shit like Shade the Changing Man doesn't really have that same level of casual appeal

>>89467462
I've definitely seen it on rec lists for newbies, it's not as difficult to approach as you think.

>>89467511
Yea but approachablity has nothing to do with casual level. DKR and Watchmen are probably the two most casual comics of all time and neither are accessible books at all. Both are much better understood and enjoyed after reading many, many comics.

>>89467511
I don't know if I would call entry-level and casual the same thing

>>89467608
I don't try to use casual as an insult, so I would.

>>89467602
DKR and Watchmen are _very_ accessible IMO. Sure, they have more to offer if you have read more comics prior to reading them, but they both offer an enjoyable read even to someone who has read nothing else.

>>89467635
Enjoyable and Accessible are not the same thing.
DKR is a sequel to year one.

>>89467769
Even if they can't understand all of it, a new reader can understand *most* of it. That is enough for me.

>>89467769
considering Year One didn't come out until after TDKR, and it was already wildly popular, TDKR being a sequel to Year One did nothing to harm its accessibility

>>89456074
That's not the dark Phoenix saga anon

>>89467885
I came here to
>>>>>>>>>>>
at you

>>89467366
lol the UK has always been a decade or two ahead of the U.S. in literary terms.

always.

always.

>>89466985
>>89467366
>>89467384
>>89467399
>>89467441
>>89467462

all of this is bait.

i don't think anyone has ever started reading comic books right off the bat with Sandman or Watchmen. that never happens.

>>89468580
Nah, during the civil war era (or maybe at the release of Moby Dick) we outstripped you and I don't think we've looked back in terms of prose. But since comics are a more emerging form of literature you're still a bit ahead there. But even then, Miller was the best big name creator of that era, and we invented the most popular genre of comics.

>>89467318
because it's not sheer propaganda like action comics 775

>>89468603
Is this some kind of crazy reverse bait?

>>89468603
I don't even know how to respond to this

>>89468618
>outstripped you

i'm in fucking florida, jackass.

>>89468637
explains a lot, really

>>89468637
Oh, so you think the US is all mongs like your ilk then?

>>89468631
>>89468636

keep talking like kids just walk in comic stores and pick out sandman and watchmen, like it's the first comic they ever read.

oh wait that never happened. because capeshit is casual. sandman isn't. watchmen might be because there was a movie, but it's still for a more mature audience.

>>89468661
Sandman and Watchmen are in every library in the country

>>89458105
>The Adventures of Luther Arkwright
>cowan ripping off toppi
>good
pick one

>>89456383
pedestrian art

>>89468648
>>89468651

let's see here, a list with tolkien in it

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20151204-the-100-greatest-british-novels

or a list with ayn rand in it

https://www.perfectionlearning.com/catalog/category/view/s/top-100-american-lit-titles/id/1662/

yeah britain beats the shit out of u.s. literature. facts.

>>89468680
false. you're just spouting off bullshit now

>>89468708
>libraries wouldn't carry two of the most popular comic books of all time that regularly get reprinted
when was the last time you were in a library anon, be honest

>>89456383
of course! let's get rich by extracting more of a mineral and then put that mineral in to circulation which then devalues said mineral! inflation!

it's brilliant!

>>89468739
literally today.

troll harder. 1/10. you can do better, i believe in you.

>>89468761
I'm literally not, those two/eleven books are super popular in libraries

>>89468661
I know 6 people that read Watchmen as their first comic. It is in almost every library in the country, it is the only comic regularly regarded as an actual novel (time 100 best novel list being the big one), it had a major motion picture before the MCU, when comics first started to come back into the mainstream. It is so many people's first Superhero comic book, you haven't even offered a counter.

Sandman is ONE of people's first comics, it's usually not the first unless you were a wannabe goth/hipster in middleschool.

>>89456188
>The writing is serious and not filled with jokes!!!

>>89468697
Both are pop trash in the larger literary scheme. I don't get your point.

>>89468921
the Watchmen movie came out after Iron Man and Incredible Hulk, actually

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>>89456074
I'll probably catch shit for this but I don't care.

>>89469083
Well it's manga, so.
If manga counts most Superhero shit is getting kicked the fuck off the list.

>>89456074
It actually sucks.

Only fedoras like it.

>>89456074
Its one of the best capeshit books... but best comic in general? Not even close.

>>89469083
>>89469153
it was published by Marvel though

Animal Man (Morrison's run), Cerebus or Usagi for me, but I'm thinking of series here.

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>>89456074
it's easily at the very top along with TDKR and only a clueless person or a contrarian would disagree

>>89456074
It's message of satire and the death of the superhero genre comics is lost to the idiocy that is /co/

>>89456074
It's a near perfect comic and an understandable choice for the GOAT. Without a doubt it's a 9 but personal preference can make it a 10.

However it's obviously not even close to as good as the Human Diastrophism arc in Love & Rockets.

Too late to get all the (you)s. I could have replied when this thread was made.

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>>89470324
Forgot the image.

>>89470351
that list a big fucking mess
matches apples with oranges, lists multiple works by the same author and the order doesn't make any sort of sense

>>89470571
Despite everything you said it's still 100% correct.