How did he become the Mary Sue that he is today? Who is to blame

How about you read some comics and find out, OP? It'll serve the double purpose of aiding you in stopping being a fag.

Also, Miller Batman fucks up ALL the time.

>>89072946
Bruce Timm.

What do you think a Mary Sue is?

>>89072946
Him being in the same universe as everybody else is to blame.

Its perfectly fine for him to be popular character but being a popular character in a world of gods, aliens, and metahumans means you gotta be on their powerlevel too.

>>89072946
Miller actually made a flawed Batman back in the day. He was brilliant and strong, but he was always overestimating himself, overly-obsessive, and deep down hollow. His first match with Mutant Leader was a perfect example of this.

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>>89072946
It was a long process and there were many factors

- Marvel appears and suddenly DC heroes are lame. Batman can succesfully adapt to darker storylines, mixed with lighter plots during the Bronze Age, while Superman is a fucking mess, see Kryptonite No More.

- Kids stop inserting on the father figure and now they want relatable heroes. Superman has been playing the man for a long time and that gave him legitimacy but now it's his Acchiles's heel. Batman was the second banana so he doesn't have that problem. In fact, the techno guy defeating bad guys with gadgets is cool now, see James Bond.

- Now we get to the tricky part. DKR changed the industry and it's one of the most iconic comics ever and it featured Batman punching Superman. There are excuses and context but the images have a long impact on a visual medium as comics. Suddenly Superman was the man with all the negative connotations like being a sell-out or lame and Batman was a cool rebel.

- The Superman's movie franchise crash and burn after Superman II and Tim Burton brought Batman to a new audience with Batman 89 on a time when people wanted new things, not looking back to the past for inspirational shit. Batman was cooler than ever.

- Bruce Timm raised an entire generation of batfags with the DCAU.

The elephant in the room was that Batman was just a guy in a batsuit so >>89073784 The problem isn't that Batman is popular, the problem is that only Batman is popular and even the people inside DC view him as the top dog. Capeshit isn't into trying new things so the reign of the Batman won't end soon

>>89074239
>The problem isn't that Batman is popular
I didnt say that

I don't like it. It just expected that you go along with the idea that he can do anything because he's "the goddamn Batman" and without any other given explanation. That's bullshit. Somebody should kick his ass

>it's another "I don't read Batman but let me explain you how it is" thread

>>89074347

He's right tho

>>89074528

How? Show me a run where Batman isn't portrayed as an asshole or never fuck up.

Also, if Batman is a Gary Stu, what that makes of Superman? You know, the most powerful, famous and adored super-hero of all the galaxies?

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The show that for all real purposes made batman the preeminent super hero features a batman who in many ways is unstoppable. Sure you could catch him, but he had a handy bat-doodad somewhere to get him out. No matter how far away from that we move. Batman still has convenient bat-gadgets in his utility belt ready to go. Now we call it prep time. Worst part, at the end of the day this is the type of batman people want. One who has is wearing his bat-thermal underwear and ready for Mr. Freeze's traps.

>>89074239
T. Casual

>>89074679

11 posts in and you already involve Superman, you really are an obsessive lot

>>89072946

Morrison took the campy Batman that was prepared for everything and created Batgod for his run in JLA. He's to blame.

>>89074773

Let's not kid around, most of the people that call Batman a Gary Stu are pissed off Superman fans that hate Batman for Superman not being popular enough or grand enough in the stories.

Which is dumb, because Superman and Batman are the broist characters in all of comics.

>>89074861

Everyone was a fucking god in Morrison's JLA run, though. Fucking Steel was this super engineer that could come up with anything and bash anyone with his mighty hammer.

>>89074679
>You know, the most powerful, famous and adored super-hero of all the galaxies?

Reminder that the last thing to happen to Superman before the N52 happened was that he got all the citizens of Kandor killed, got his adopted son lost in the phantom zone because he was a fuck up, and walked around the US because he couldn't handle criticism. Post crisis Superman was pretty much a whinny little bitch and pre-crisis coined the term Superdick because of how he use to screw around with his friends.

>>89074773
the 6th post was already about muh poor Superman getting ruined by TDKR

>>89074929
please name more irrelevant stuff that most people don't care about

>>89074929

The 'Superman: War of the Supermen' cross-over event sucked dick and Pre-Crisis Earth-One Superman despite being a dick was still recognized as the most adored superhero in all existence.

>>89074753
That's prep time batman, peak human batman exist since the 40, prep time since the 60s, martial artist God since the 70s, and Batgod since the 90s


Only a idiot would namedrop Miller or timm. I don't understand how can people be this casual about batman. Literally the easiest character to know

>>89075275

DCAU Batman in his own cartoon constantly found himself in the mercy of enemies only to be saved by something else and in the JL/JLU he was more the ninja/tactician guy. The dude who'd disappear the entire episode and then show up with the save by the end of it.

>>89075330
And?

>>89075420

That Bruce Timm's Batman couldn't be a Gary Stu in the cartoons. He was constantly getting his shit pushed around in his own cartoons and he was out of most of the action in the JL cartoons.

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>>89072946
Morrison.

>>89072946
I'd say Edmond Hamilton, Curt Swan, and Tim Burton are equally, though unintentionally, to blame.

>>89074894
Batman literally saved the JLA from the white martians.

>>89075462
That's why I think it's retarded to name Miller or timm. Anyone who thinks batman is a Gary stu in any version is wrong, the character has a long history of doing shit well beyond his powerless level. Since the forties he was human perfection and stuff like that, he was fighting vampires and monsters before 99.9% of modern superheroes even existed, some people forgets that 40 years ago O'Neil wanted batman to be a martial arts book, so they get triggered if batman is among the best fighters in the planet, of that 70 years ago batman was among the smartest in the planet, etc they want to believe thus shit is new and not part of the character.


At the end of the day every single batman hate thread is made by 2 kinds of people someone butthurt that batman is more popular than their favorite character, or someone that takes vs threads on the Internet. Too seriously and got butthurt at out of Context batman feats

>>89074290
well made Batman stories have him get his ass kicked sometimes the problem is there is so many dudebros raised on the Nolan films that think the only person that can beat up Batman is Bane so WB has to appeal to them and they don't realize its Batmans brain that gives him an advantage over everyone but I guess that's not as cool as Batman beating up thugs and fighting Superman

>>89075830
But Nolan's Batman is the weakest.
Scarecrow, Ra's, Joker - all kicked his ass at one point.

>>89072946
Never because he's not a Mary Sue you retard. Delete this thread.

>>89075830
For fucks sake you sound like an underage idiot

>>89072946
Damn I love Batman hate threads.
All the jealousy and supertears makes my dick hard.

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>>89074290

>>89075681

Everyone fucking beat the martians in DC.

>>89075933
That was pathetic, Johns has matured since

>>89076006
It was natural to the god damned story, it's just that readers are fucking children and if they see a guy they don't like punching their guy, they have to shit their pants about it.

>>89076006
I mean, shit happens. Gotta love Guy's face though.

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>>89076060
Forgot pic

>>89072946
Look, man.

"A powerless human has the ability to keep up with superpowered gods if we're just smart and tenacious enough because humanity is awesome and our potential is limitless" is a story that people WANT to be told.

Nobody cares about "Versus thread" logic. They care about narrative making them feel good. That's human nature. The other thing is an autistic need for rules and structure.

That's what Batman "being a Mary Sue" really boils down to.

>>89075884

this, where the fuck in the Nolan movies is Batman a unbeatable Gary Stue?

Withouth Alfred he would be dead in those.

>>89076102

Caring about power-levels in DC's super-hero comics is really weird, specially when heroes and villains no matter the powerset are shown to be on the same level.

Fuck, Green Arrow once took Darkseid down with an atomic arrow.

>>89075830

Did you even watch the movies?
Batman was weak as fuck.

>>89076124

Batman got beaten by a bunch of pitbulls in the movies.

>>89076046
No, it wasn't. Hal can punch Bruce, much less make him fall, batman giving him a sucker punch later was petty and shitty. The problem people has with that is that batman is right, even after the retcon Hal is still a murderer that deserved to be on the spotlight, not celebrated. Johns intentionally made batman sound irrational and antagonistic instead of the voice of reason.

>>89076181
>The problem people has with that is that batman is right

The real problem is that Batman had already forgiven Hal when he was the Spectre. Rebirth completely ignored that and most of what happened in that run to throw everyone back at square one of "Hal is a murderer and I hate him".

>>89074290
https://youtu.be/k6lAJ6ihDOk

>>89076169

That too.

I mean if someone dislikes the Nolan movies, their godgiven right to do so, free country and all.

But If somebody says he does so because "Only bane can hurt him in those" and "Dudebros" i have to asume they hate the movies because REEEEEEEEEEEE NORMIE GET OUT OF MY CAPESTUFF ,WHERES MY TENDIES

>>89076181
>>89076229

Yeah. The real problem was that Batman and Hal had already patched their differences way back during Final Night when Hal sacrificed himself and they were in an amicable relationship by the time Hal was the Spectre,

>>89074770
>meme
>spouting a meme instead of communicating

>>89075681
>>89075562
>World's greatest detective realizes his opponents are Martians and exploits their weakness

Getting mad at that is like getting mad that someone used Kryptonite on Superman.

Besides Morrison's JLA didn't even feature Batman in most stories and when he did he was never some omnipotent batgod. Fucking Prometheus pushed his shit in.

>>89076280

And everyone was a goddamn god in JLA. That was the whole deal. The heroes shown at their very best. Superman westled a fucking angel. Green Arrow could shoot anyone down. The Atom could travel to any place and do anything by becoming small enough.

>>89076269
What did you expect?

Also, CAPTCHA: STOP NEVADA

>>89076280
>World's greatest detective realizes his opponents are Martians and exploits their weakness

They are White Martians. The kind of beings that can and will mindrape you for fun. The fact that Batman even got his "You were careless" monologue out before any of the 3 martians in there turned him into a potato is bullshit.

>>89076343
They were overconfident and he pulled a trick on them. This kind of thing is capeshit bread and butter.

>>89076124

He also got bitten by a dog. Nolan's batman wasn't all that OP in combat.

>>89076238
That or he identified with the Joker and is a casual REEEEing about normies.

>>89076280
I'm not mad but it's pretty blatant Batgoddery when white martians have resisted kryptonian heat-vision in the past.
And iirc (I read it when it came out, never since) he's instrumental in saving the JLA beyong just beating 3 martians by himself.
No other member of the JLA beat more than 1 martian by themselves during that story mind you.

>>89076596
Dude... Batgod started in that issue, before that the Batgod didn't existed. You can't say it's blatant when it's literally when that version of batman first appeared

>>89076671
>You can't say it's blatant when it's literally when that version of batman first appeared
How do you figure?

You know what the worst part of this is?

Batgod isnt just exclusive to Batman anymore.

>harley quinn going lulsowhat at Johnny Sorrow's face

>>89076723
The Batgod was invented by Morrison in the JLA, the nickname Batgod was coined for this interpretation especially. . Batgod and prep time batman are not the same even when casuals and bathaters confuse the two of them

>>89076805
I have no idea what you are trying to say