>The original and greatest Arch-Enemy in comics, from which

>>89061691
No, Joker is.

>>89061691
>this is what Spider-Fags believe

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I'm pretty sure Venom has supplanted Green Goblin as the "ultimate archenemy" in the minds of most casual Spider-Man fans. Not that it makes a ton of sense, Venom's never been particularly great as a Spider-Man villain- fact is, he's at his most interesting when his stories are divorced from Spider-Man altogether. Still, it is what it is, I guess. Casuals want Venom.

>>89061691
Joker is the true original

>>89061691
This has to be bait since all of the points apply to Joker more than Gobby.

>>89061691
Those things are the size of basketballs. No one would make a grenade like that. Super strength doesn't change ergonomics.

>>89061892
>build a grenade
>make it really uncomfortable to use
LOCK ME UP AND THROW AWAY THE KEY, D A M A G E D

>>89061868

>most popular hero in the world
>not spider-man

>this is what Batfags actually believe

>>89061691
Gobby is my favorite villain in comics, but other Anons are correct, Joker and even Lex Luthor are far more iconic and influential

>>89061837
Venom hardly counts to me, he has the same track record as the Punisher practically, started as a Spidey baddy but quickly became a dark anti hero unto himself, he just didn't have the same success as Punisher despite his popularity

>>89061691

The weird thing is, supervillains like the Green Goblin and the Joker are arguably terrible archenemies, as they're the kind who are too evil to be left alive.

Like, if I was Spidey, I'd have gone "Okay, that's fucking it" after Gwen died, and ripped Osborne in half. Not hunting down and killing the Green Goblin each time he pops back up is a terrible idea.

>>89061737
Joker wasn't really established as Batman's arch enemy in his origins like the Goblin was for Spidey.

>>89061837
Nah, bro.
Goblin is Spidey's Joker. Venom is Spidey's Bizarro.

>>89061991
Memes only give off the illusion Spider-Man is more popular than he really is.

>>89062041
Well, he kinda died after Gwen did.

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>>89061991
Batman's comics consistently outsell Spidey's and TDK outsold any of his movies.

But please, post that picture of action figure sales.

>>89061892
>doesn't know the difference between a bomb and a grenade

>>89062085

Fair enough, but Spidey really should've incinerated the corpse or something. I suppose it's the nature of comics, but when Osborne is alive and running HAMMER in Dark Reign, part of me can't help but think "Peter, why haven't you killed this man yet?"

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>The Joker
>Lex Luthor
>Magneto
>Doctor Doom
>Loki

Those four above (at the very least) rate higher than Goblin in the arch-enemy pecking order from everything between historical context to popularity. Hell, Goblin's not even the most popular Spider-Man villain. He's easily eclipsed by Venom to most casual and it's arguable that Dr. Octopus has a much stronger arch-villain role for Spider-Man in a historical context.

>>89062071
>spidey's popularity is a meme
DCasuals actually believe this?
He's easily no. 3 in the most popular of all time list.

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>>89061691
>>89062041
That's why Doctor Octopus is the superior nemesis!

>>89062041
Norman was dead from Night Gwen Stacy Died to Clone Saga

>>89062154
He unironically is.

>>89062008
>and even Lex Luthor are far more iconic and influential

Not OP, but Lex wouldn't be what he is today if it wasn't for Goblin. But yeah, Joker is more iconic and influential.

List goes:

Joker, Goblin, Lex,

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>>89062286
>Moviefags believe this.

>>89062042
But Goblin *wasn't* tied to Spidey's origins, in fact Spidey fights a good dozen villains before we ever see Gobby or Norman.
What kind of next level shitposting is this?

>>89063318
It's almost like I was talking about Goblin's origin and not Spidey's or something.

>>89062102
Merch sales aren't just action figures, what you really think heroes make billions each in toy sales?
The more cogent criticism is the date of the data (2013).

>>89061691
>Lex Luthor with a coat of Joker
>most original
>most recognized

Lol

>>89063364
Personal pronouns denote the last person mentioned in the sentence. Right ? Or am I being dumb?

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>>spider flags and Bat fags fighting again

>>89062286
Literally nobody but comic nerds know Goblin.

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Fuk of spiderfags and batfaggots,Lex was doing the personal foil since the 1940s,your villians are two decades too late

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>>89063458
Be main villian in multiple spider man cartoons and video games as well as two live action movies.But some anima still think he's unknown

>>89063458
He was in a couple of movies.

>>89062110
I don't say this often, but you are an idiot.
>A grenade is a small bomb typically thrown by hand.

>>89063562
Not him but that implies larger bombs exist and are viable.

>>89061892
People throw basketballs all the time. There's a whole sport built around it.

>>89062121
Nobody knew who Loki was until Avengers, don't lie, nobody knew who the AVENGERS were until theAvengers, let alone Thor and his rogues

>>89062154
Doc Ock makes no sense as a Spidey villain, Spider-Man has spider sense.....he can defeat the X-Men all at once, but can't handle an overweight faggot with tentacles? Norman has the super powers to brawl with Spidey one on one

>>89062286
>Not OP, but Lex wouldn't be what he is today if it wasn't for Goblin

Uh....how?

>>89063635
Basketballs are meant to be gripped with two hands. The image is not of the Joker holding his basketball bombs like basketballs. I don't understand what is so hard about this, anon.

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>>89061691
> Green Goblin.
> not even the best goblin.

>>89063837
Plenty of players can palm the ball one handed and/or can throw precise one-handed 3/4 court passes, and none of them have superhuman grip or throwing ability.
Not sure why this triggers your immersion when the guy flies around on a rocket-powered glider with no apparent controls.

Now get off your couch and give me 100 jump shots, nerd.

>>89063713
Sorry, I was out doing something. But, before Goblin was around Lex Luthor wasn't a billionaire tycoon guy, he was just kinda a generic scientist who got pissed that Superman made him lose his luscious hair. Then Norman was revealed to be the Goblin, and everyone started to love the idea of the big bad being a billionaire tycoon. So, DC retroactively changed Luthor into being super rich.

>>89063458
Green Goblin is literally one of the most well known comic villains.

>>89062767
You do realize he has done nothing significant in the spidey mythos besides

>Marrying Aunt May
>Possessing Peter Parker.

Lex Luthor and Dr Doom both precede Osborn.

>>89065405
Luthor wouldn't be who he is today without Norman.

>>89063425
I've never heard of that rule. I'm not very good at grammar though, so that could be my problem.

>>89062147
If you go by various sales metrics then he's actually #1 by a wide margin. World-wide he's the top, no contest.

>>89063713
Doc Ock can flail his tentacles all over the place. Making it a lot more challenging. Obviously he goes down in one punch. In fact Spidey has gotten better at fighting Ock. Besides it's not just being able to fight Spider-Man that makes a good Spidey villain. Otto uses his brains more than brawn.

>>89065177
What about forming the Sinister Six?

>>89065177
>nothing significant in the spidey mythos

What the fuck is the Master Planner arc you goddamn buffoon

>>89065177
>Lex Luthor wasn't a billionaire tycoon guy, he was just kinda a generic scientist who got pissed that Superman made him lose his luscious hair. Then Norman was revealed to be the Goblin, and everyone started to love the idea of the big bad being a billionaire tycoon. So, DC retroactively changed Luthor into being super rich.

Is this true

>>89061691
Goblin is just Lex crossed with Joker. Both of whom are practically tied for being the most iconic, influential super villain in comic book history.

>>89066282
>Doc Ock can flail his tentacles all over the place. Making it a lot more challenging.

But when you imagine the idea of a fat fuck in a leotard with a chinese boy haircut flailing his tentacles around, it just looks....well, retarded

>>89066860
it's true about Luthor originally being a normal scientist, his becoming a tycoon was more to do with the zeitgeist of the 80's which had rich businessmen as the ultimate symbol of evil

>>89066860
No

>>89066860
It's bullshit. Norman had been dead for decades when Byrne revamped Luthor. His post-Crisis, corpulent, Lexcorp-leading design owed more to the Kingpin.

>>89063473
Joker and Lex debuted at literally the same month. Also Joker was closer to his modern incarnation than lex was.

>>89061691
But Lex Luthor and Joker are more popular and iconic.

>>89061691
>>89061737
It was lex Luthor
Or Bruno

>>89063530
Green Goblin in some form actually appears in EVERY Spider-Man movie except Amazing 1.

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>>89061691
>most iconic, influential super villain in comic book history
>not Doctor Doom
tootingwhores.jpg

>>89061837
I'm 21 and I always saw Venom as just ow the edge Spider-Man. He's about as much an arch nemisses as Vermin or Morbious. I always felt Green Gobiln was the real arch enemy of Spider-man. Family connection, hatred of the hero but still willing to rob banks.
A foil that's goal is just to kill the hero isn't much of a foil.

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>>89067445
>He's about as much an arch nemisses as Vermin or Morbious

Did you just compare Venom to Vermin?

>>89067391
And Oscorp has a prominent role in Amazing 1 with Norman being the offscreen force behind the spider experiments.

So that's every single Spider-movie.

>>89067318
yes, golden age luthor even did the "was friends with the hero before turning evil" shtick before the green goblin

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>>89067360
>Bruno

>>89062008
>he just didn't have the same success as Punisher despite his popularity
How could he? Punisher is a vigilante that kills criminals. Venom was a bad reporter that blamed one person for his lack of fact checking and his whole personality was "kill Spider-man" I just realized he was more of Spider-man's Doomsday than any real villain.

>>89063458
Did you live under a rock in the last 15 years?

>>89066282
Doctor Octopus is a scientist with a bad family background and wall crawling abilities. Gobbo is a flying Halloween decoration.

Peter is a science nerd with a good family background and wall crawling abilities. Other than Harry there's nothing that ties Norman to Peter.

Plus Ock's arms letting him climb and swing in a similar but different way than Peter makes for a cool contrast when they fight, while Norman just keikakus and looks weird.

>>89065177
>Green Goblin is literally one of the most well known comic villains.

He isn't even one of the most well known Spider-man villains.

>>89064018
That poor sod's backstory is such a mess it really keeps him bad.

>>89067472
Yes and when you strip the cool factor of his looks that's all that's left.

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>>89067642

Only confusing because of the more interesting backstage war between writers and editors at that time in the Spidey comics.

Still, at least the original is still walking around... but currently in the worst kind of writing hands.. Hopeless.

>>89067753
I wish he just stayed a mystery
There are so few villains left that are actual unknowns to who they are and how they became to be.

>>89067694
Yes, but Vermin is a Z-list nobody that only JM Dematteis cares about.

>>89066914
As opposed to a rich guy flying on a rocket powered broomstick throwing pumpkins from his man purse? Most superheroes and supervillains seem stupid if you boil it down like that.

>>89067589
Agreed with everything listed.

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>>89067960
Gobby has super powers comparable to Spidey's

To assume Ock is anything on that level is stupid

>>89061691
>>The original and greatest Arch-Enemy in comics
LOL

>>89068076
I'm not saying Ock is on that level. His arms are though. They protect Otto from Spidey. Obviously once Spidey works his way around them, Otto is out in one punch.

>>89061691
Definitely not the most iconic, but considering the impact killing Gwen Stacey had on the cape industry, I guess you could argue he's the most influential.

>>89061691
He isn't iconic and no one knows who he is outside people younger than 30

>>89061991
He hehe someone made you made today?

Catwoman and the penguin are way more popular than gg, hell the riddler and two face are more well known.

>>89062121
Loki isn't even as popular as poison ivy

>>89063368
They are also kids underwear and stuff like that.
>>89065873
Hahaha no

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>>89062117
>Fair enough, but Spidey really should've incinerated the corpse or something.

Did you even read the comics? The first time he died, he was never intended to have a healing ability. There was no reason for Spider-Man to throw his body in an incinerator. That was a bullshit retcon that came up in the 90's when Marvel painted themselves into a corner with the Clone Saga and needed a mastermind.

When Osborn came back the first time, Spider-Man threw Osborn's bag of pumpkin bombs at him. Osborn actually SHOULD have been incinerated by that! But they established he had a healing ability in that issue and then he came back to life in the epilogue.

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>>89069093
Actually I'm going to re-frame this into a question for you /co/

Given the impact Gwen Stacey's death had on the industry, does that make the Green Goblin the most influential cape-villain?

>>89066860
It isn't. That anon doesn't know what he's talking about. Luthor still stayed a mad scientist throughout the time Spider-Man was created all the way to the mid-80's. Osborn had been dead since the early 70's, so there was no reason to think anyone would change Luthor because of Osborn.

>>89069334
Someone else said it, kingpin was a factor, gg was irrelevant.

>>89069093
>>89069302
Still no. Spiderfags vastly over-inflate the importance of the Death of Gwen Stacy. Yes it was one of the definitive moments of the opening of the Bronze Age, but

1) Death of Gwen Stacy wasn't a catalyst for change in comics insomuch as it was a result of the change that had already been happening. It's not like it caused the Bronze Age to happen.

2) That was much less about Gobby as a character and more about whether publishers would allow real consequences to the kinds of things villains often do

3) Even with that story, he's still vastly overshadowed by people like Lex and Joker in terms of how he influenced how characters are written and the stories that we get.

>>89069436
>Still no. Spiderfags vastly over-inflate the importance of the Death of Gwen Stacy.

It's not just Spider-Man fans overinflating its importance. I've seen too many uninformed people trying to claim it's the start of the Bronze Age of Comics.

>>89062041
the complaint is reasonable, but making the villains less evil would be a stupid way to 'fix' it

>>89062102
if thats google trends, it she should be noted that people will google spider-man as spiderman or spider man. which will make it look lower

>>89069552
It's not so much "less evil" as not giving them an increased bodycount. Arguably you don't even need it. BTAS had a lot of restrictions and some people who got affected by Joker venom didn't die, yet they still managed to imply Joker was terrifying to Gotham.

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>>89069565

>>89067642
>green goblin was pulling all the strings for the clone saga in the shadows

No... Normans retconned death is way worse than hobgoblins true identity mess.

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>>89065177
>But, before Goblin was around Lex Luthor wasn't a billionaire tycoon guy, he was just kinda a generic scientist who got pissed that Superman made him lose his luscious hair. Then Norman was revealed to be the Goblin, and everyone started to love the idea of the big bad being a billionaire tycoon. So, DC retroactively changed Luthor into being super rich.
Pretty sure it was the 80s that changed Lex Luthor into being an evil businessman. But sure, go ahead and imagine Norman's massive non-existent cultural footprint.

>>89061837
>>89061837

Early Venom basically filled Green Goblin's niche at the time: a villain that can threaten him both as Spider-Man and Peter Parker.

>>89061691
>Striking image immediayely recognized by people all over the world
lol no.

>Enemy of the world's most popular superhero
lol no again. Thats Superman and Batman

>>89069961

They both copied Kingpin, who was still a spidey villain.

>>89061691
>>The original and greatest Arch-Enemy in comics, from which all Nemesis relationships are derived

That's Lex Luthor and you know it.

Green Goblin wasn't even Spider-Man's first arch-enemy. It was Doctor Octopus before that.

>>89063364

Wait, so you're saying JOKER's origin isn't tied to Batman???

>>89069820
so now combine the 3 spider-man searchs numbers and only the large spikes are majorly different.

>>89061691
Look, I like the Goblin and think he's pretty fantastic and I love his dynamic, but don't kid yourself.

Batman and Joker is the most well-known Superhero-Nemesis rivalry in the modern era.

>>89066931

70s movie Lex wasn't really a scientist. Was he?

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>>89070156
Batman still wins unless Spidey has a movie out, but you're right it is close. However my point still stands that people claiming that Spider-Man easily beats out Batman are wrong. If anything they're fairly comparable.

>>89069289
Also DVDs/Blue-rays and video games.

>>89062121
>Lex Luthor
Meh depends on the generation I think maybe back when the old superman movies came out he had more mainstay, but most kids/teens know the green goblin over Lex
>Joker
yes, absolutely
>Magneto
meh maybe, I'd say that's a close one
>Doctor Doom
In terms of mainstream notoriety nah, but I think he's cooler than the Green Goblin
>Loki
No

>>89067873
Venom would be right there too if he wasn't created during the edgy 90s

>>89069116
What are you talking about? He's seen as Spidys Joker. Most know him.

>>89069902
Both were bad. But one is a lot easier to ignore.

>>89069965
I argue worse as well. Venom reason for wanting Spidy dead was stupid even for comic book standards. They should have just have it from the start that the suit just grab and mindcontroled some poor fool and his plan was revenge for being rejected and nearly killed. It would have made for better reading. Peter would be very nervous never knowing who the suit body snatch. That said the way modern comics went we would have likely seen some horrid shit from that idea like the suit puppeted Uncle Ben's corpse or worse.

>>89070033
Batman yes Superman no.

>>89071570
No, most people don't. In fact show me 5 parodies to him in the media. Only five, the riddler has more.

>>89072985

The only ones I can think of at the moment are Fairly OddParents and Maximum Overdrive.

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>>89074068

>Maximum Overdrive

>>89071536
He wouldn't, he was created in the 80s you utter moron

>>89074161
So weird

>>89067589
>Other than Harry there's nothing that ties Norman to Peter.
Crazy ties them together. Ask anyone who has ever gotten involved with crazy how hard it is to shake off.

Why is popularity so important to you faggots?

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>>89077081
OP is just trying to force a lame meme, but it isn't so harmful is it, I'm always down for a Gobbo thread

>>89077114
My mistake, I forgot that every thread has to start with a shitpost if it's going to last.

I like that Norman dies like a chump.

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Goblinfags need this book. I got it for xmass and it is awesome.

>>89061691
>Is the Green Goblin the most iconic, influential super villain in comic book history?
He's a Joker knockoff.

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>>89077335
No, he shares literally zero similarities with the Joker other than wearing purple and green and smiling

You people are as dumb as the idiots who say Carnage is like the Joker

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>>89061691
No. Joker is. I don't even like Joker that much, but you can't deny he's the most iconic super villain. Most influential? That's a whole other story. I'd also say Joker, but Lex Luthor and maybe Doctor Doom are pretty close. Maybe Magneto?

Either way Norman is still my favorite villain just for how much of a ruthless bastard he is. Gwen Stacy is pretty low-tier these days when comparing it to all he's done just to get under Peter's skin. It's great.

His costume looks really outdated and hasn't aged well. Osborn himself is much cooler then the Green Goblin.

>>89077335
Osborn is more a Luthor knockoff.

>>89077461
No, the business tycoon version of Luthor comes well after GG's death.

>>89077427
I also like how, as with Doc Ock, Norman is secretly terrified of Spider-Man.

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>>89077443
Depends how it's drawn.
When drawn by the right artist it can look pretty threatening.

But under most it does look admittedly goofy.

>>89077611
Yep, that's fucking terrifying. Good show.

>>89077404
>No, he shares literally zero similarities with the Joker other than wearing purple and green and smiling
Big permanent smile, all about chaos, toy-themed weaponry, bombs and poisons.

>>89077461
They just took Lex Luthor and Joker and mashed them together.

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>>89077611
>When drawn by the right artist it can look pretty threatening.
Agreed. I doubt whether his comic book outfit could ever translate accurately to live action.

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>>89077802
This is 70's Luthor, anon.

>>89077802
Osborn was a crooked industrialist when Lex was still jerking off to Lexor in his cell.

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>>89077849
I don't think it ever could.
At least not the classic outfit. Now something like pic related?
I think that'd be the better choice to take inspiration from.

>>89061691
>take Joker
>give him a Halloween costume instead of a clown outfit
>put him on a government
>make his alter ego into Lex with a toupee

>>89077929
Anon, does it hurt being so heavily on the spectrum

>>89077802
Chaos?
Since when was the Green Goblin about chaos??

>>89077918
The costume they gave him in Ultimate Alliance 2 might also work

>>89077952
says the spiderfag

>>89078114
Please eat Joker's green pubes some more

>>89077802
>I don't read comics but pretend to: the post

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>>89077404
That crossover was a fun read. Surprisingly, a lot of Marvel/DC crossovers are. Too bad we can't have nice things anymore.

>>89077611
what book is this from or what artist? I like it a lot

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>>89079149
From what reverse image search can tell me, the artist was a guy named John Watson.
Seems like he's done plenty of Spider-Man work before.

Like this, which is the same concept, but with Venom instead.

>>89071382

Casuals know Loki more than Doctor Doom. He's in Avengers. I dare anyone, comic fan or not, challenge them to name 10 super villains in 10 seconds, Loki, Joker, Luthor and Magneto come up more than any others.

>>89079806
>Casuals know Loki more than Doctor Doom. He's in Avengers.
Yeah maybe if you were born in the year 1999 or something, but we're all adults here

WHO GIVES A FUCK JUST READ COMIC BOOKS AND ENJOY THEM NIGGERS
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>89079806
Normies and casuals are not the same thing, normies don't remember Loki or any marvel movie before Civil War.

They are popular but they left no mark on popular media, just like avatar

>>89080781
Confusing casuals and normies it's the best way to spot a casual

>>89080781

except.... the point still stands, casuals do know loki more than dr.doom. This aint the 90's anymore where he's in a cartoon, video games and has his own title. That's Loki now.

and.... Id sure as fuck bet on normies knowing loki over dr.doom as well. Loki is all all kinds of bullshit that marvel sells, he is big money for the mouse.

>>89081006
I really don't think they do, even if Loki's been in movies Doom has been an iconic character for so long and has a very recognizable costume. But i'm old and out of touch with kids today so I may be wrong.

>>89075816
88 was his first appearance but he didn't show back up again till 1990

>>89081006
It hasn't been the 90s for a long time. One born in 1999 is old enough to post here.

>>89081318

Loki is a hashtag, doom is not. That should tell you something.

>>89081318
MF Doom is literally more well known than Victor von Doom these days. Just ask fifty friends at random.

>>89069565
>>89070156
you can do the exact same thing with batman, bat man, and bat-man, retard

>>89081619
But his fans know where he got the persona from. No one thinks he created the character.

>>89077918
Man, what happened to Deodato?