Goddamn AVClub just ripped Marvel a new one. Interesting because

>>Marvel is in sad shape. These characters have no more weight on the page anymore. It’s possible to be distracted by individual successes like Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl or The Ultimates. But put all these heroes on one page—including many of the company’s flagship characters, stuck in the throes of uninspired costume redesigns—and there’s no friction. These characters inhabit a trivial world. Brian Michael Bendis’ diaphanous plot falls apart the moment one looks at it. The conflicts are so ill-defined that the Beast needs to spend two pages at the end explaining the series’ themes. There are so many endings. There’s the Beast haranguing Carol about the book’s plot, a deus ex machina so random it almost achieves the audacious, a pin-up spread advertising future Marvel Comics, and a final final ending that would have read quite differently had a different candidate won in November. None of it hangs together.

>Civil War II #8 (Marvel) looks pretty, thanks to David Marquez. Oddly, everything is magenta. Nothing fits together right. It points in the direction of future stories that people don’t want to read, starring characters who don’t look or act like anyone wants. A few strong new concepts are hopelessly adrift in a sea of 55- and 75-year-olds acting out the motions of their attenuated senescence. One suspects the problem, however, is not the age of the characters, but the tenure of the creators. Although some of the action figures are moved around the board, the overall effect is boredom. There is nothing interesting about this story, except that in execution it bears a striking resemblance not to the rebooted Secret Wars but to another famous sequel pushed through by creators too seasoned and too powerful to see their errors—Secret Wars II.

>>89036644
>Civil War
>well-made
Stopped reading there.

>>89036644
O'Neil is the best shredder of Bendis. Took apart Age of Ultron in detail.

>>89036726
But if you continue it says
>piece of hokum that falls apart the moment one looks away.

>>89036653
>These characters have no more weight on the page anymore.
It's what happens when you use the same characters over and over everywhere.

>>89036653
>One suspects the problem, however, is not the age of the characters, but the tenure of the creators.

>Bendis gtfo reeeeeeeeee
I mean I agree but that's a delicate way of saying it.

>>89036726
What you lack in reading comprehension, you more than make up for in being a faggot.

The general public still loves Marvel. They're trucking shops into buying their crap, digital sales are still good and people in general like them. Critically speaking the top 20 comics of last year was dominated by marvel according to most sites. And while there are some that hate Marvel on /co/, if you look at other forums or plebbit you see people liking their diversity push and Whor and the like. Squrrel girl is selling well digitally and in tpb and is eisner nominated and top 5 of 2016 almost everywhere.

That's a good headline. CW2 is not only bad but it's not even fun to laugh at.

I think there's probably not as much risk in being harsh with CW2. Even casuals can smell that it's a cash grab with the movie coming out.

That is a completely savage review, which is nonetheless fair and accurate.

>>89036844
Okay.

So?

And yet Marvel will continue to ignore this and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and innovative...

Aw man, that makes me nostalgic for times I used to visit AVclub just to read Dexter reviews.

Is there still a chance for AVclub?

>>89036844
>damage control: activated

>>89036750
http://whenwillthehurtingstop.blogspot.com/2013/06/sir-age-of-ultron-do-i-think-that.html?m=1

>>89036653
The comparison between Civil War II and Secret Wars II is apt and I've been saying it for months.

>>89036750
He and Jim Shooter should team up.

>>89036844
>The general public still loves Marvel
Movies

>And while there are some that hate Marvel on /co/, if you look at other forums or plebbit you see people liking their diversity push and Whor and the like
Can you post some actual examples of this?

>>89036875
So this review means nothing. Marvel are gonna continue dominating despite their shit quality and even though you might see a smug shop owner complain that he can't sell marvel comics, at the end if the day Marvel will still be on top.

>>89036844
>other forums or plebbit
Cocksuckers gonna cocksuck.

>>89036844
Even if that is the case (and frankly Marvel has quite a few good books right now that get ignored in favor of the "lolmarlel is trash XD" meme-ing). there's no arguing that CWII is a steaming pile of absolute fucking garbage that did more harm than good to the line as a whole. Just as DCYou was crippled by Convergence, Marvel NOW 2.0 is crippled by CWII.

Marvel Events are usually bad, but as this article states, they're usually a "fun" kind of bad. There was no fun to be had with CWII. Just a plodding, uninteresting mess that ruined everything it touched. It will go down in history as a fucking mistake.

>>89036938
I just told you to look at other forums or plebbit. Then again two days ago there were 3 marvel shill threads on the first page with hundreds if replies so you can even look at /co/.
And it's nice that you ignore the fact that marvel has had a lot if critically acclaimed comics this past year.

>>89036946
For free or for a fee?

>>89036991
>Marvel Events are usually bad, but as this article states, they're usually a "fun" kind of bad
This mentality is why they've already won.

>>89036946
This isn't a review of Marvel is a company or their their entire comics line. It's a review of Civil War II. CWII is not reflective of the entire line, and thank god for that.

>>89036997
>I just told you to look at other forums or plebbit.
Well the thing is that I don't actually believe you and think you're lying. You made the claim, burden of proof is on you here

>>89036888
I feel like with CW2 they had to know it was bad. Remember there was the internal leak months in advance. Someone is trying to sink Bendis as far as how he has power internally. If Spencer's event performs well I'm betting you'll see Bendis on fewer titles going forward.

>>89037032
>CWII is not reflective of the entire line
Yeah it is.

>>89036644
>THE SAME EXACT SHIT WAS SOMEHOW GOOD WHEN IT WAS OLDER BECAUSE NOSTALGIA, REEEEE!
Fuck off, whoever wrote this.

>>89036997
>critically acclaimed
The things some people will do for a living.

>>89036644
wen even normies can look trougth your shit you know you fuked up

>>89037040
Are you retarded? You don't even need to make an account to check those places. You're so separated from reality it's not even funny.

>>89037088
And the band kept playing on...

>>89037048
>they had to know it was bad.
Still sold like hotcakes and sparked a lot of discussion.

>>89036767
Then it clearly wasn't well-made. It's not that anon's fault that whoever wrote that article is a retard who immediately contradicts himself. This is what passes for "journalism" on the internet, I suppose...

>>89036653
>looks pretty, thanks to David Marquez.
When will this meme end?

>>89037122
You mean, free hotcakes. Ever since Marvel began to give away comics for free, their sales charts are not to be trusted anymore.

>>89037122
It underperformed compared to Secret Wars, they will not be happy about those numbers.

>>89036644
Going to AVClub for comic book reviews is like reading a take out menu for insights on market costs of meat and seafood.

>>89037157
It only underperformed compared to their previous even which ended, what, 3 months before CW2 started?

>>89036812
Nah, this is an old problem rearing up once again. Go back through mainstream comics history and you'll find plenty of instances of a creator getting enough clout that they can get away with pretty much anything, and end up producing shit or steering a line into shit.

>>89037182
And yet /co/ visited it in the days when Marvel ruled. Hmm...

>>89037029
The point of the article is that they're not even that anymore. They're not "fun bad', they're just terrible.

Let them know what you think.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc4SctkHWbwpH2t7AQNRFjaj_d_xUoiCDdi1oEyIfhCm8rNqQ/viewform?c=0&w=1

>>89037123
If you spent more time actually reading and less time being an idiot jackass you'd see what the author was clearly saying: Civil War was well-made in that it was entertaining on the surface and offered lots of fun/cool moments, even if the event itself was hollow overall.

Civil War II doesn't even have that. It's so poorly done it's not even enjoyable on a surface level, it's just pointlessly moving pieces around for marketing reasons.

>>89037188
The way they treat Bendis they expect him to sell 200k+ through at least 4 issues on something like this. That the book only stayed above 200k for the #1 (boosted by variants) is a huge problem.

You can't have mediocre sales AND be a critical failure when you're a star writer. They are going to cut him down.

>>89037243
>Other means (ahem)
U KNEW?

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What went wrong

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>Marvel movies are great and they rake in the big bucks so they can support the comics division
>As a result "da mouse" doesn't care (most) of the comics published are pure dogshit

Monkey's paw indeed

>>89037146
You can just say you don't personally care for his art. Other people having different opinions about art isn't a "meme".

>>89037236
It does not translate to sales though.

>>89037292
>mediocre sales
>be at least top 5 for the entire run for each month
Alright

>>89037328
>Marvel movies are great
I seriously hope you're joking

>>89037331
Guy is trash, my man.

>>89037326
>What went wrong

You got triggered by mantle passing which is a trope as old as cape comics

>>89037362
Top 5 doesn't matter as much as quantity of issues actually shipped.

The event also tanked the sales of ongoings that tied in. Poor performance all around.

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>>89037284
>it was entertaining on the surface and offered lots of fun/cool moments

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>>89037326
>not liking badass Bat-Gordon

>>89037326
>Wondy
Isn't she sporting the cleavage again?

>>89037431
It does matter because if nobody's doing better than you then you're still king.

>>89037326
Some of these were for the better and some of this have already been undone.

>>89037385
Better than DC now at any rate.

>>89037468
That isn't saying much either.

>>89037424
Also a number of those aren't actual replacements (N52 Flash, Gwenpool, ugly She-Hulk) or have just been reversed (Gordon Batman), or brought the original back (Steve Rogers, Rider Nova)

>>89037385
They're great for what they are.

>>89036844

Eisner and forums dont mean shit. Mainstream audience likes the movies and the toy merchandise which is based off of the old Marvel, not the SJW nu-Marvel. Comic book retailers everywhere are reporting bad Marvel book sales, digital sales arent doing much better.

Shills like you dont understand that Marvel really needs to see just how badly they're doing to finally start fixing things. Self-denial will only make the crash that much more inevitable.

>>89037494
Some people are too new know that change is seldom permanent in capes.

>>89037506
Yeah, quipfests.

>>89037456
I didn't say it was irrelevant, but internally the raw numbers matter more than placement. It's not seen as success and they will chase the next golden goose. Spencer is the one they're grooming for it but we'll see.

>>89037326
>Comix

Who even uses this term outside of old Underground stuff?

>>89037506
Garbage?

>>89037542
Newfags.

>>89037520
>Yeah, quipfests.

Yep. Nothing wrong there. They're not trying to be high art, they're just making films people will enjoy.

>>89037530
>and they will chase the next golden goose
They've been doing this for the past 3 years...

>>89037550
If that's your opinion, I guess.

>>89037563
>b-but eating shit is healthy!

>>89037563
Sorry mate, but when every single line if dialogue is a quip then that's a problem. And then they try to be ultra serious and the clashing of tones produces a mess. Also, awful cheap cgi. Everything is fucking green screen...

>>89037563

That should be the formula of the comics as well. Write exciting stories of adventure and action with superhero powers, not some "progressive" stupid bullshit where characters talk a fucking novel in the page.

If Marvel would actually impose "only 3 speech bubbles allowed per two pages"-rule on their comics, they migh finally begin to treat their comics as proper visual forms of entertainment, instead of just having talking heads do absolutely nothing.

Another rule should be that if the writer cannot figure out how to make the superpower of the hero exciting, replace the writer immediatly.

>>89037617
Liefeld pls

>>89037626

>Liefeld
>exciting superpowers

Choose one.

>>89037328
>Marvel movies are great and they rake in the big bucks so they can support the comics division
The movies are no longer part of Marvel Entertainment, so the success of the movies have no real bearing on the comics side outside of sending a handful of people to want to get into the comics side and increasing the popularity of merch. The income from the movies themselves though are going straight to Disney, not to Marvel Entertainment.

>>89037617
That would lead to more decompression because they'd fill pages with unnecessary action.

>>89037292
>mediocre sales

Save Secret War, it was the best selling event since the OG Civil War, IIRC. I know it was the best since at least AxV.

>>89037432
Oh come on don't be dense. People love that scene of Peter bouncing ontop of those villains/Mr Fantastic and the scene where Frank blows away Jack O'Lantern and Stiltman (?) was hilarious.

>>89037567
Hickman worked out pretty well for them. Secret Wars made bank and was received pretty well compared most Marvel events.

Then Hickman dipped out once Secret Wars was over and washed his hands of the whole affair, as did Remender, hence why they had to fall back on Bendis with CWII. Spencer doing Secret Empire and Ewing doing Eternity War hopefully go well enough that they don't have to bring out Bendis again anytime soon.

>>89037701
>Stiltman is still dead
Yeah, fucking funny.

>>89037720
Well, there's a clone of him running around now thanks to Ben Reilly.

>>89037668

Unnecessary action is still always better than unnecessary dialogue and talking heads.

>>89036910
Jesus Christ, this makes me wanna read Age of Ultron just to see how big of a mess it is with my own eyes.

>>89037761
Not really. Same shit.

>>89037761
The kids of today should defend themselves against the nineties.

>>89037761
Not really better just different.

Haha guy that made the thread on riddit whining about diversity your ass is getting rekt!

>>89037589
>My opinion is objective fact

Anon, Regardless of what your opinion on those movies are they are loved by people all over the world, the good ones are acclaimed by critics and the worst ones being formulaic. Now I know all the inbreeding in your family has caused serious mental deficencies but if you're going to a movie of men in tights with supernatural powers who got them by being bitten by radioactive spiders or a billionare pretending to be a bat and you expect high art, then you're unironically autistic. Seek medical help

I know you're going to respond with some /tv/ tier response like
>le marvelcuck

So just so you know, this is an argument you lost.

>>89037603
>every single line if dialogue is a quip then that's a problem.

Your opinion and the general consensus doesn't agree considering
1) Cape movies are inherently ridiculous and serious dialogue is retarded
2)The general populace loves a joke, just loves laughing. Woe is them.

>they try to be ultra serious and the clashing of tones produces a mess.
Has never happened. As I said cape movies are inherently ridiculous. However that is my opinion and it differs from your opinion so who really cares?

>Also, awful cheap cgi. Everything is fucking green screen...

ok

>>89037869
This post gave me cancer.

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>scroll down
>see this
Hahaha what?

>>89037888
xd sure showed him /b/rother

>>89036653
>comparing to Secret Wars II

man, CW2 is bad but i dunno if i could go that far.

Secret Wars II was crimes-against-humanity levels of awfulness. CW2 is merely mundane-shit.

>>89036653
>distracted by individual successes like Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl or The Ultimates.
t. cuck
Though it's good to see even the cucks are turning against Marvel.

>>89037908
Do you mean you didn't read Love is Love or are you using it as a reaction image?

>>89037326
Many of these are incredibly misleading

>>89037617
>Write exciting stories of adventure and action with superhero powers
Too bad the MCU doesn't even do that.

>Civil War
>one sparring session at a CGI'd airport in Germany = war

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>>89037791

90's werent about unnecessary action, they were about bad page- or two long "action" which you could barely actually see.

Superhero comics in general should be like Tsutomu Nihei's Wolverine spinoff-short. Less yadda yadda, more stuff actually happening, more visual storytelling, less speech bubbles. More complicated action sequences, less two muscled dudes punching each other on two-page spreads while talking a novel to the pages.

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>>89036897
>Aw man, that makes me nostalgic for times I used to visit AVclub just to read Dexter reviews.

It's dead, jim.

>>89037761
That's a 90s mentality. 10s mentality favors feelings, levity and progressiveness over either action or plot.

>>89037326
It's hilarious, how inaccurate this has become in such a short amount of time.

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Or another examle of Tsutomu, easily the best short story of the Halo Graphic Novel without a single line of dialogue.

What Marvel movies (decent ones anyway) occasionally get right is exactly that, they are creative with both the superpowers and the visual storytelling. Bad ones usually have too much dialogue to make the budget smaller, bad action filled with CGI laser beams and explosions and hasty editing to cover the fact they have fuck-all choreography in the fighting itself.

Example of a decent Marvel film: Ant-man.

Example of a bad Marvel film: Civil War.

Example of a really bad Marvel film: Anything Sony entertainment shits out with Amy Schumer in charge.

>>89036844
>Digital sales are still good.

DC is annihilating them on the digital front though.

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>>89037326
...Did they replace Alfred?

>>89037446
I preferred Gordon as Leon S Kennedy.

>>89038128
>...Did they replace Alfred?

I think he just got a daughter. Whole list is lies like that.

>>89037424
Mantle passing can be done well, but Marvel wasn't doing it. It was a superficial push for diversity that was underwritten and pleased no one.

>>89038128
Of course they didn't, he's still around, they just revealed he had a daughter. Most of that image lists characters that haven't actually been replaced a all or are outdated.

>>89036991
>Just as DCYou was crippled by Convergence

This is incredibly false. DCYOU just didn't sell all that well. Many of the books got critical praise, but the sales were not there. It got to a point that even the flagship books outside of Batman were hurting. It was a nice experiment that general comic book readers didn't care for.

Convergence had nothing to do with the sales slump as it came out while the slump was happening.

>>89037869
tl;dr I mad

>>89038158
>>89038169
But several of them are still accurate. Especially seeing shit like Misty Knight as Captain America wasn't even posted, so I argue that it's sentiment still stands.

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>>89038121
>>89038027
>tfw Nihei is making basic manga now

>>89038209
The sentiment is just proving that people who don't read comics will save any image to shitpost about them.

>>89037668
Decompressed action is much better than decompressed exposition.

>apart of The Onion

>Isn't funny at all
What went wrong?

>>89038202
>Many of the books got critical praise
Meh, not that much.

>>89037869
>cape movies are shit, but man, do I love to pay for shit
Seek medical help.

>>89038209
>Misty Knight as Captain America
IT WAS A FUCKING COVER
Read the actual issue, she borrowed the shield while Sam was on vacation, then gave it back at the end of the story.

>>89038211
He made very very little money until Sidonia. And since everyone responded better to his new style...

>>89038228
>reading marvel
Not gonna lie, Marvel has pretty much killed off anything I liked about the brand. Spiderman is just a wannabe Iron Man now, Whor is fucking awful, etc

Hell, they even managed to fuck up MoonBoy and Devil Dinosaur.

>>89038256
More like
>cape movies are shit on purpose

>>89038256
>cape movies are shit
just because you keep posting it, doesn't make it any more true than from the first time you posted it.

>>89038300
You could just read solicits to figure out what's true or not though. Doesn't require reading the ongoings themselves.

>>89036844
Disney is in pure damage control mode.

Just gut marvel and sell the rights to DC. It's for the best.

>>89038322
There aren't any moderate marvel fans anymore.

You either apparently love marvel or you hate marvel, and if you love marvel you love it because of "KAMALA A CUTE!" or "CAROL/JESS OTP <3"

That's seriously the best things I've seen said about the brand on here.

>>89037326
>Superman: Outdated
>Batman: Outdated
>Spider-Man: Misleading, both are still around
>Wonder Woman: Outdated
>Hulk: True
>Thor: True
>Green Lantern: Misleading, both Hal and Baz still around
>Flash: Outdated
>Nick Fury: True
>OG GL: True, but not for long
>Power Girl: True
>Iron Man: Doom is the one replacing him actually
>Wolverine: True
>Nova: Rich is back now
>Superman again: Those are 2 different characters
>Spider-Woman: Your point?
>Star-Lord: Outdated, didn't even last 6 issues
>Inhumans: Your point?
>Iceman: True
>Batgirl: Your point?
>OG Flash: True, but not for long
>Noh-Varr: Oh no, he grew a beard!
>She-Hulk: Your point? Outdated anyway
>Squirrel Girl: true
>Ms. Marvel: Misleading, both still around
>Alfred: very misleading, it's just his daughter
>Deadpool: Very misleading, she didn't replace him at all
>Captain Britain: Non-Canon Secret Wars books don't count
>FF: Sadly true, but X-Men are still around

>>89038211

At least he still retains his style of having less speech bubbles and more shit actually happening. Comics are a visual medium, something the cape comics seem to have largely forgotten, especially the Kate Leth-esque modern SJW shit where absolutely nothing happens.

>>89038390
I don't disagree but it doesn't make the image legitimate.

>>89038311
But they are shit, anon. The fact you get so triggered when someone doubts they're a 10/10 proves so.

>>89038256
I'll never understand militant anti-fanboyism. If you don't like those movies don't watch them, people aren't going to change their minds just because you're being rude to them.
t. never played to watch an MCU movie.

>>89038405
Powergirl should be listed as misleading, normal Peeg is around just not on the main universe.

>>89038405
>>Power Girl: True
Not really, Karen never stop being active. She just went to another book.

>>89038405
It's an image that was made to bait /tv/ and /co/. I really wouldn't give it much thought.

>>89038357
Or outsource the comics, the cartoons, the video games.

>>89038444
>If you don't like those movies don't watch them
You could do the same. Stop defending a product nobody likes, especially if you're doing it for free.

>>89036923
Got a summary of Secret Wars 2 to explain how bad it got?

>>89038241
The AV Club is Onion's "serious" side, in that it's not satirical/comedic articles.

>>89038444
First of all,
>played

Secondly, I think most people tend to stick to Marvel's films because they were first, and they expect all superhero movies afterwards to stick to whatever formula has been built up for them over the past ten years or so. Nobody likes things that are different, and "Man of Steel" was incredibly different.

>>89038459
>>89038477
I didn't know that, I don't read that book.

>>89038483
Hawkeye killed Hulk because Bendis decided to ignore character and say that he doesn't have a problem with killing people even though he has a strict no-kill policy.

That was the last issue I got to read. I imagine it only got worse from there.

>>89038486
That's fair, it's bad anyway

>>89038430
I'm just angry because a lot of shit they do show an epic lack of restraint or dignity.

Like making Earth-2 Superman into Obama. C'mon, DC, that's some shit you'd do in the 40's.

>>89038481
I'm not defending shit, just pointing out your attacks are pointless. You're doing it (I assume) for free and have no incentive to do so.
And I like some of those movies.

>>89038483
>MCU movies were first
You have to be 18 yadda yadda.

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>>89036644
>>89036653

This is really good. It makes actual points but is concise and fun to read and it doesn't shill or hide behind "snark" nitpicking. Does AVClub or any other site have regular content like this?

>>89036644
This is the site that bitched about Chads at the Suicide Squad premier

>>89038534
Obama Superman is on Earth-23 not Earth-2. And it was actually good.

>>89038483
Secret Wars 2015:
>Everything dies
>Doom remakes reality as God Emperor and creates Fanfictionland with the help of the Molecule Man
>Survivors from the universe's destruction, both heroes and villains, show up and try and fuck shit up for Doom
>Big super duper battle between Doom's forces and his enemies
>Molecule Man gets bored and revives the old multiverse
>Reed and his family are now in charge of hlping the MM, everyone thinks they're dead
>Miles Morales is now part of 616 because he gave the MM a stale hamburger, seriously
>Doom has his face healed, everything lives

>>89038545
>This is really good
Not really.

>>89038545
May I suggest the Donald Trump of Movies article

>>89038544
>I'm not defending shit, but if you say one more negative word about my beloved MCU...

>>89038553
Was it? I recalled it being Earth-2.

And regardless of it's good or not it's not a very dignified move.

>>89038483
>Nobody likes things that are different
Says you.

>>89038553
I think he's confusing Calvin Ellis with Val-Zod.

They have strikingly similar designs honestly.

>>89038550
They felt scared about the DChads?
>NEEEERRRDDSSSS!.jpg

>>89038405
By your logic, Flash should be misleading because both white Wally and black Wally are still around. Wolverine too, because of Old Man Logan.

>>89038592
What will I do then?
Shitpost just like you?

Do whatever m8, I'm just explaining to you that you're not going to change anyone's mind by repeating "it's shit". If anything you're making things worse for people who agree with you.

>>89038607
And the rest of the world.

>AVclub

The same faggots that praise shitty simpsons episodes and are constantly merciful to family guy?

>>89036653
>a final final ending that would have read quite differently had a different candidate won in November


huh?
what does Trump have to do with this?

>>89038632
You've been shitposting since the start, mouse guard.

>>89038570
Secret Wars II is from the 1980's and is about the Beyonder. Hickman's is technically Secret Wars III.

>>89038604
There is a black Superman on Earth-2 (I think he's adopted by Clark and Lois or something?) but the one that's literally POTUS is on E-23. And it's definitely meant to be more cheeky than dignified.

>>89038619
But Val's costume is more blue/silver while Calvins's is blue/yellow. Totally different.

>>89038630
>Flash should be misleading because both white Wally and black Wally are still around.
OG Wally's return is quite recent

>Wolverine too, because of Old Man Logan.
Eh, I guess so.

>>89038662
Kek, try harder autismo.

>>89038486
To be fair, the new Power Girl hasn't even been seen much since her introduction. Meanwhile, Karen has been a major player throughout "Earth-2".

>>89038518
Secret Wars 2, not Civil War II.
I read through all of CW2 as it was storytimed, and you are correct. It only went downhill.
But simply put, Ulysses gets a vision that Miles will kill Steve Rogers, so the two fuck off to Washington DC to hash out a means of avoiding the vision. Carol and Tony follow the two and fight over the Poor Little Black Boy in a mid-air fight, during which Carol puts Tony into a coma. Ulysses then fucks off into space because he was asked to leave Earth, though not before delivering a bunch of visions to heroes in the form of one-page pin-up spreads. Also, those spreads are almost literally advertisements for future Marvel stories. All they're missing are title cards.

But yeah, Tony's in a coma and there were advertisements for future Marvel stories. I think that's the overall takeaway from CW2.

>>89038544
>You have to be 18 yadda yadda.
I know there were superhero movies well before the MCU. I'm talking about superhero movies in the modern era of sorts. The MCU movies are the films that people think about when you say "Superhero Movie".

>>89038570
That's Secret Wars 3.
And I still can't believe they didn't go full Crisis on Infinite Earths and coalesce the Marvel Multiverse into a single planet. It just cemented how the event was an excuse to get rid of the Ultimate Universe.

>>89038604
>>89038619
Yeah, there are black Supermen on Earth-2 and Earth-23. But Earth-2's Superman was created in response to the positive feedback about Earth-23's Superman.
I wish suffixes like "Superman-23" caught on. Maybe I should start forcing that meme.

>>89038607
Just look at Star Wars IV(+3).

>>89038652
At the end of CW2, Carol speaks with the POTUS, who is cast in shadow throughout his scene. The writer assumes there would be less shadow if Clinton won.

>>89038698
He's right though.

>>89038646
It's almost like an outlet like AV Club has a staff of writers with different opinions.

>>89038652
Dark, ominous President at the end, covered in shadow.

>>89038712
About what?

>>89038641
>death to individualism, long live the hivemind

>>89038702
>At the end of CW2, Carol speaks with the POTUS, who is cast in shadow throughout his scene. The writer assumes there would be less shadow if Clinton won.
Special Obama issue aside, Marvel never fully depicts the sitting POTUS. He's saying the tone of their conversation would have felt more optimistic than sinister to him.

>>89038702
>To be fair, the new Power Girl hasn't even been seen much since her introduction.

And she's going to show up in Deathstroke, of all places.


>I wish suffixes like "Superman-23" caught on. Maybe I should start forcing that meme.

The smaller numbers that I'd use the most don't look right to me in this format (Superman-0, Superman-2). And with the Rebirth shit going on it's still not that useful since we have two Earth-0 Supermans.

>>89038662
>mouse guard
Dude, don't insult good comics.

>>89038702
>Just look at Star Wars IV(+3).
No thanks.

>>89037424
Mister Spencer the difference between Dick getting to be Batman for a while and Marvel's all new push is huge.

I'm sorry people don't like your comics anymore, try writing better ones.

>>89038745
But what does Shadow Trump say anyway?

>>89038749
Am I the only one who finds such extreme realism boring? Why don't they use fictional characters that serve as an allegory of real people?

>>89038789
>Captain Marvel, let me grab you by the pussy. I'm the Prez now after all.

>>89038027
You can have talky comics that still has shit happen. Marvel used to do those great.

>>89038789
Something along the lines of "You did a good job, have any new ideas?"
>>89038794
Marvel prides itself on being set in the real world in the present day, as opposed to DC with their fake countries and politicians.

>>89036644
>Interesting because the site is really casual friendly

They also hated Bendis' X-Men run. Called it "running in place" and a waste of an interesting status quo

>>89038781
Honestly all along it's been less about the actual changes and more about the promotion of them. DC's "we don't have to go on the View" sentiment is much easier to swallow. Just put the shit out there for people to read if they want.

>>89038814
Frankly, I like
>President Luthor demands Superman to help him invade Qurac
better than
>President George W. Bush demands Captain America to help him invade Iraq

>>89038814
The post-Crisis DC grownup books dealt with Reagan and Daddy Bush specifically (and as plot motivators), but that was a real snapshot in comics history.

>>89038814
>You did a good job, have any new ideas?
Trump praising Captain Carol is sending me mixed signals here, Marvel.

>>89036888
>pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and innovative

I'm just picturing that picture of the Huffington Post editorial staff

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>>89038789
>Heckuva job Carol! I'm giving you a blank check! What do you wanna do next?

>>89038885
Dos someone have that pic of Ike and Don?

>>89038814
Yeah, Marvel has always prided itself on being the "realistic" one for people who have problems with imagination.

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>>89038908
That explains the lack of F4 or cosmic Marvel.

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>>89036644
I still can't believe that at the end of the story the entire conflict about whether or not you should use precognition to change the future was never resolved. The entire fight was completely meaningless, Tony's "death" was completely pointless since Ulysses was going to leave no matter what anyone did. Nobody "won", the thing they were fighting over simply stopped being around.

>>89038885
Remember that Carol's side was the one that approved of shooting an unarmed person of color (green) because he might be dangerous, and indefinitely holding possible terrorists with no evidence other than some guy's prediction, including black Spider-Man.

>>89038986
Yeah, Carol was a straight cunt through the event, but Marvel, or at the very least Bendis, didn't seem aware of that.

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>>89039052
Bendis actually hates Carol and it shows every time he writes her

>>89036844
>digital sales are still good and people in general like them
You haven't heard the dust-up over Marvel's digital code changes, have you?

>>89038986
>approved of shooting an unarmed person of color (green) because he might be dangerous
No she didn't, Clint acted completely on his own

>>89039077
This page proves nothing, he's had characters insult Jessica Jones and Spider-Woman far worse.

>>89038950
Vision already told the story better anyway

>>89038749
That's probably what it is. My bad.
I wonder if there were delays in the final issue just to figure out how to write the POTUS at the end of the book.

>>89038760
I think most people refer to pre-Rebirth Superman as Superbro, or at least they do on /co/.

But yeah, there are reasons why those suffixes aren't a thing.

>>89038950
The biggest flaw of CW2 is that it didn't have a central conflict.
The central conflict that permeated the entirety of CW1 was whether or not superheros should be mandated to register with the government or if they should continue to act in complete anonymity.
The central conflict of CW2 was supposed to be the morality between using precognition to fight crime before it is committed, but then it becomes whether or not visions are accurate or something, and by the end it becomes... I don't even know what it becomes.

But its lack of a spinal cord is what definitely killed CW2. It just became a series of events and happenings and opinions that ultimately resulted in nothing at all.

>>89039143
Not that Anon, but other than a few concerns on Twitter I haven't heard much. Is there a roundup of opinions from retailers/readers/etc. somewhere?

>>89039225
>Is there a roundup of opinions from retailers/readers/etc. somewhere?
There was a thread about it some days ago.

>>89038128
>Gordon's action pose is so uninspired that all his coworkers are going to shoot him in the back

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>>89039202
Remember when he brought up Avengers #200 for laughs well after everyone else just wanted that completely forgotten?

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>>89039225
At one point CWII was about profiling, even though that makes no fucking sense because that's not how Ulysses' powers work.

>>89039225
>Is there a roundup of opinions from retailers/readers/etc. somewhere?

Oh, retailers are PISSED... Several big names on Twitter have admitted that they've had customers cut their entire Marvel orders from their pull

>>89039326
Jesus christ, that's like if he had Osborne bring up the fact he sired two rape kids with Gwen as the goblin.There's a reason you retcon some stuff Bendis.

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>>89038894

>>89039364
>rape kids
Hey now, it was consensual.

>>89039329
Just shitposting, mate. Marvel did great this past year and with the Spencer written Cap centered even they'll do even better. People are hype for Royals and Gotg, people love Nova, they love Wolverine(both titles). Marvel has 2017 in the bag.

>>89039364
>Rape kids
Poor Gwenfags still haven't come to grips with the fact their waifu is a slut.

>>89039328
No this is side books trying to salvage CW2 because they are forced to use it in their plotlines.

>>89038986
Worst part is that the woman she arrested became a super-villain.

>>89039328
>not allowed to stop a known criminal mastermind who's just stolen a top secret government death machine until he's actually used it
Sometimes these things make sense in context, but I take it this isn't one of those times?

>>89039375
I just realized that Trump looks like Brian Butterfield in this.

>>89039326
>Recapping one of Marvel's most infamous/sexist storylines to tell a "IDK CHILDBIRTH IS WEIRD LOL" joke

Why did Marvel ever think they could trust Bendis with Carol again?

>>89037668
Or lead to cape comic trades that actually have some visual storytelling.

>>89039455
It isn't, it's even worse in context because he actually was using it, he was driving it all over New Jersey, caused a bunch of property damage and resisted arrest.
Also, the tank was about to explode, but to be fair he didn't know that.

>>89039388
>All this deliusion.
The only thing that's decent is Nova and Cap. Caps going to end soon and Nova's going to tank.

No one is excited for Royals or anything inhumans since marvel poisoned the fucking well on that entire franchise. GoTG is faggot meme tier and wolverine isn't any good. Going buy the DEC sales. They're not going to unfuck themselves any time soon.

>>89038121
>Example of a bad Marvel film: Civil War.
Loving every laugh

>>89039328
>makes no fucking sense because that's not how Ulysses' powers work.

That's exactly the problem, NOBODY working on the tie-ins knew how Ulysses' powers worked

>>89039455
The incoherent plot and Bruno becoming a permanent cripple and leaving the book entirely is why Ms. Marvel sales fell from solidly-above-30k to edging-near-the-cancellation line.

>>89039329
http://www.newsarama.com/32671-fans-petition-marvel-to-keep-its-old-digital-redemption-program.html

>>89039446
>One superhero working for the government arrested me and yelled at me
>Another superhero freed me, and then half the hero community came to fight the chick that arrested me because they thought she had gone too far
>I HATE ALL SUPERHEROES
>I'm going to hire a super-villain assassin to kidnap people to try and recruit them to my cause
To be fair, how could Carol possibly expect anyone to be this stupid?

>>89039489
>all this delusion
People love Ewing. You have the thread about the new creative team on gotg on the fron page of /co/ give it a look. And X-23 and Tom Taylor have a lot of fans. And everyone loves OML.

>>89039526
Yikes. Even when Marvel does something good by accident they still manage to fuck it up.

>>89039526
Even if the book itself was still written well it's definitely a bad sign to shelve the supporting cast. Like you just know that editorial is meddling for marketing purposes and it's better to get out now.

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>>89038789

>>89039529
Meh, a few months ago everyone was saying how they're useless and they never use them

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>>89039558
>LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU MARVEL IS DOING PERFECT

>>89039599
Nice argument.

>>89038256
>shit

He's not saying they're shit though, just not grade-A+++ stuff.

This mentality that if something isn't gold, it's shit is depressingly pervasive. It's OK to say 'I thought that was pretty good, but I wouldn't watch it again'.

>>89039558
/co/ loves Ewing but the guy has never had a well-selling book. Ultimates was carried by Rocafort and plummeted when he left.

>>89039506
The worst were the ones that had self-fulfilling prophecies. The whole point of Ulysses' visions is that they're unreliable and can be avoided if you act on them, if they were self-fulfilling prophecies that would mean that his visions can take into account people reacting to his visions and thus they'd always come true.

>>89039329
Reading around more I get why Marvel would do it. They see the stories of people reselling the codes and think that they could be getting that 3.99 directly if the person would just buy from Comixology instead of a friend or LCS. People got too smart with it.

>>89039591
But not everybody saw them as useless.

I don't buy Marvel and I see it as a bad move. I always assumed the additional dollar on the cover of Marvel comics was to cover the digital issue. But now you're essentially paying an extra dollar for a book you were probably never interested in. It's like that for me.

>>89039631
They are shit though.

>>89039599
I believe you're doing this, but i don't believe you're that hot.

>>89039583
>Those clocks on the wall
I thought SWORD wasn't a thing anymore, and that's why Carol was kicking it in space with Alpha Flight.

Can we agree that modern Marvel Comics are just a pile of shit?

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>>89036844
I don't use this a lot but...

>>89039653
That's dumb.

>>89038128
Oh shit, look at that. It is RESI 4

>>89039682
Yup.
Instead of getting a digital issue of the physical book you've bought, now you're getting the first issue from an upcoming TPB; I believe the first three issues are "Civil War II" #0, "Ms. Marvel" #1, and I think "Captain Marvel" #0. I'm not sure exactly on the last two, but I know that "Civil War II" #0 is being offered.

And now I just realized that if you're a heavy Marvel buyer, there's a high probability of double-dipping on these free digital issues.

>>89039734
No I mean it's a pretty dumb way to justify the extra dollar.

>>89039765
Oh.
Well, that's what I've always personally assumed. For all I know, Marvel DOES offer the digital issue for free, but assumes that their comics are naturally worth the extra dollar.

>>89039788
In fairness Marvel's floppies tend to have a higher pagecount and fewer ads than DC's which is probably what the extra dollar is actually doing. Now if they just had comparable content it would be a more fair comparison.

>>89039836
No they don't.

>>89039583

Holy fuck the irony of all ironies here.

The writer is pro-Hillary so he writes the character he's pushing to act heroically and then meet with Hillary in the end to be praised and create a Hillary / hero alliance.

But he's such a shit writer that the character doesn't act heroically at all. Then Hillary loses the election so the hero is praised by Trump and the scene makes sense because her unheroic shit is incredibly Trump-like.

This is some true Hypercrisis shit, what was /co/'s reaction like?

>>89037869
seek immediate assistance faggot.

>>89039836
Marvel's problem with pricing tends to be inconsistency. They've offered 22-page comics for $2.99, $3.99, and $4.99 in the past with little other reason to raise the price than the name on the cover. Meanwhile, those same page-counts are almost always $2.99 through DC.

>>89039872
See the image in the post you linked?
That was pretty much the reaction.
I don't recall much in the way of political discussion. We were still reeling from the bullshit that Beast was talking about in the pages prior.

>>89039850
To back you up I just looked at some CBR files I had on hand. Grayson and Vision both clocked in at around 21 pages of content.

I don't have any Marvel floppies to do an ad check.

>>89039734
No Ms. Marvel #1... They're offering the Old Man Logan trade

The new digital initiative is clearly designed to sell movie tickets rather than comics

>>89038211
the tears can flow freely now

>>89039915
>We were still reeling from the bullshit that Beast was talking about in the pages prior.
Was it a last ditch attempt to bullshit Carol a justification?

>>89039929
Grayson was considered one of DC's A-List titles, got the boost to 3.99 without content increase I believe.

>>89039872
>so he writes the character he's pushing to act heroically and then meet with Hillary
Oh for fucks sake. It's Obama. Shadow Obama showed up at the begining of this event offering James Rhodes a job, and now the event ends with him offering Carol a job, Bendis thinks it's pottery.
More importanly, this book waswritten before the election, and it was intended to come out long before January 20th, which you know because it isn't January 20th yet.

>>89039915
>I don't recall much in the way of political discussion. We were still reeling from the bullshit that Beast was talking about in the pages prior.

I missed out on all this but I assumed /co/ was pissy just because Beast was on a page written by Bendis again the second I heard he recapped everything at the end.

Does anyone have the page on hand?

>>89039933
Ah, that's what it was. Thanks.
But yeah, it's just trying to advertise their upcoming trades.

>>89039943
Pretty much, yeah.
If I recall correctly, it was pretty much Beast saying that Carol didn't kill Tony, and also that Tony had planned for all of this or some shit, but either way Carol is in the clear.

>>89039957
That's great. Has absolutely nothing to do with Marvel and DC having the same general page count.

>>89039971
So basically this is the last time we can all yell THANKS OBAMA

Who cares, a lot of these so called critics are just getting older and then older a person gets the more they complain about crap that doesn't matter. They're biggest complain is "This isn't the marvel I grew up with", thing is media changes, so why cry like a little child just because the book that used to appeal to you no longer do.

Just accept the medium. I had no issue with Civil War 2, but Marvel and DC don't really appeal to me anymore, I mean I still like them... but most of my money goes to truly original stories where characters can actually die and stories end.

>>89038665
IV. III is FF 319.

>>89040021
>to truly original stories
Such as?

>>89039657
In your opinion, sure.

>>89040086
Nah, they're shit.

>>89039993
I felt the context was necessary. Not sure if he was thinking that Grayson being more expensive meant that DC gave it extra pages or not.

>>89037908
What is this?

>>89040021
>I had no issue with Civil War 2

How?

Characters were grossly out of character, things didn't line up with other writers books in a obvious way, things didn't line up with Bendis's other books in an obvious way, it didn't tie in with it's tie ins because the writers had no idea what was going on including Bendis, it was a lazy, insipid, stupid cash grab hoping to bank off a movie and a popular older title. There's nothing redeeming about it at all. There's nothing but garbage to take issue with. In what way would anyone read Civil War 2 and not take issue with it?

>>89040015
>>89039971
>George Bush's last act as President was to put Norman Osborn in charge of national security
>Barack Obama's last act as President was to put Carol Danvers in charge of national security
Really makes you think...

>>89039915
>We were still reeling from the bullshit that Beast was talking about in the pages prior.

There was an infographic for that one too, I believe... Recounting all of the times Tony "Always Trusted Carol With Pre-Crime" Stark directly called out Carol's bad behavior

>>89040021
>I had no issue with Civil War 2

Opinion invalidated, it was completely nonsensical even if you pretend that everyone is an OC that isn't having previous characterization shat upon.

>>89039487
And then Kamala's relatives guilted her to arresting him.

Even though he ABSOLUTELY STOLE THE TANK.

Their later profiling stuff was better but holy shit I think Hijinks's super power is just making Kamala and everyone around her into idiots.

>>89038483
>Got a summary of Secret Wars 2 to explain how bad it got?
The only memorable thing that happened in it was Spider-man teaching The Beyonder how to poop. The whole event was just Shooter using The Beyonder as an excuse to do some really shitty philosophizing and practically every book in the line was forced to have the Beyonder show up and do random shit.

>>89038665
>Hickman's is technically Secret Wars III.
No, Hickman's is Secret Wars IV. Secret Wars III was a Fantastic Four arc from Engleharts run in the early 90s.

>>89039641
They keep giving Ewing shit artists, or artists who just don't gel with the story he's telling. Rocafort being the exception, and it showed.

>>89039641
>>89040254
Rocafort art is too static to contribute to the narrative.

>>89040254
Loki Agent of Asgard was fantastic with fantastic art and it sold cancellation numbers. That's just the way it goes.

>>89040307
Meh comic with meh art.

>>89040072
I like Walking Dead, Invincible, Glory, basically anything that's not quite a part of the mainstream of comics. Not that there's anything wrong with like popular stuff, I just like to read a story that I can't predict outright is all.

I still collect cape books for sure, like Wonder Woman, Superman, and some more DC stuff. Marvel is kinda cool... I like the diversity thing that they're doing, but I think they are kinda overdoing it a tad. Like, yeah I like Captain Marvel, but does she have to be in every book and made a center character for every freaking story. She's awesome, but you know... they need to substitute quality into just ramming her into every plot. Like just get a writer and write a good plot for her and be done with it.

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>>89040341
>Marvel is kinda cool... I like the diversity thing that they're doing
>I like Captain Marvel

>>89040341
I feel like you just don't love superheroes because the things you like are generic action stories all the same and not original at all.

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>>89040341
>The Walking Dead
>Not mainstream
>Not popular

>>89040369
>it's a "Jean changes someone's sexuality because she feels like it" issue
Scary.

>>89040341
>Walking Dead, Invincible, Glory
You think these are original stories? Get off your high horse.

>>89040341

Oh boy. Here come the (You)s and the end of a decent discussion thread.

>>89040118
>Characters were grossly out of character, things didn't line up with other writers books in a obvious way, things didn't line up with Bendis's other books in an obvious way, it didn't tie in with it's tie ins because the writers had no idea what was going on including Bendis, it was a lazy, insipid, stupid cash grab hoping to bank off a movie and a popular older title.

Out of character? I could understand your opinion if this was the Walking Dead and Rick for some strange reasons starts to have sex with corpses. But that's not the case, the characters are always at the whim of the writer and whatever plot they're pushing at the time. Either you'll jive with it, or you won't. Trust me, I learned this years ago, don't invest your time into how you think characters should act, at least not in a cape book.

>There's nothing redeeming about it at all. There's nothing but garbage to take issue with. In what way would anyone read Civil War 2 and not take issue with it?

I think you like so many people are caught up in nostalgia. You like me grew up with these characters, but each decade these types of things change. For instance, 10 years ago Wolverine was actually killable, now he can take hits from nukes and call it a day. So, stop picking and choosing what you want to be offended by and just have fun to laugh at the medium. Don't invest all your time in being angry at every little nuance.

>>89040476
>For instance, 10 years ago Wolverine was actually killable, now he can take hits from nukes and call it a day.
Wolverine's been dead for years, anon.

>>89040498
I think he's a casual.

>>89040498
And his replacement clone is only liked because "muh prostitution fetish".

We deserve actual Logan back.

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>>89040476
>just have fun to laugh at the medium

>>89036653
>It points in the direction of future stories that people don’t want to read, starring characters who don’t look or act like anyone wants.
That's a perfect summation of my feelings on Resurr(X)tion in a single line ...

>>89040476
>the characters are always at the whim of the writer and whatever plot they're pushing at the time.
>For instance, 10 years ago Wolverine was actually killable, now he can take hits from nukes and call it a day.

It sounds like you're just ok with terrible shit writing which is the exact reason that we keep getting terrible shit writing.

>>89040378
Well, if you have any suggestion for things I should read that you consider original I'd really like that.

>>89040556
You can not like it but not have it affect your life too much. Unless you're a Dan like character and would kidnap Marvel writing staff to actually change shit

>>89040545
>caring about Memeverine

lmao

>>89037959
I've read Secret Wars II. It was terrible but at least Shooter knew how to pace a story. So between choosing which one to read again I'd rather read that over Civil War II.

>>89040476
>For instance, 10 years ago Wolverine was actually killable

10 years ago Wolvie grew his body back from a drop of blood.

It has shit to do with nostalgia and everything to do with bad fucking writing.

>>89040606
I honestly don't think it matters. Just saying that the stuff you like isn't original by definition. There's nothing wrong with it, just don't get on a high horse about it solely because it's creator owned.

>>89040612
I'm Canadian. It's all we have except for the first openly gay superhero and Memepool.

At least Wolverine can still be fun.

>>89040607
Like that anon said:

>It sounds like you're just ok with terrible shit writing which is the exact reason that we keep getting terrible shit writing.

Looking back, he's not really wrong though. The kind of excuse you made was frequently made back in the 00's. And now we get things even worse than 00's comics. The "it's just a comic" excuse was something I used to believe in, but it's starting to become apparent that it's being used as a shield to excuse subpar and fucking awful writing, or even the minimum amount of consistency.

>>89040498
Ok so I got my time reference wrong, but you know what I meant to say.

>>89040556
Well, I just don't hold common Marvel comics to some ridiculous writing standard. I'm rarely impressed by mainstream comics, I like them though, because of their cheesy factor. But I don't invest to much time waiting to be impressed.

>>89040647
I didn't mean to sound like I was on a high horse. I just really like those comics so I'm biased as hell.

>>89040638
My favorite thing about that was Guggenheim made that assumption from an X-Men comic he read.... But completely missed that he grew back from a drop of blood due to a magic crystal, so it was a one time thing! Then when a lot of people online pointed it out he had to write up a story about Wolverine fighting an angel to come back to life or something.

>>89037959
Being awful is much better than being oppressively mediocre. In ten years you'll still remember Secret Wars II and how bad it was, Civil War II wont even register.

>>89040726
>Then when a lot of people online pointed it out he had to write up a story about Wolverine fighting an angel to come back to life or something.
That's sound biblical as fuck. I dig it.

>>89040726
Uncle Guggy always delivers.

>>89040761
>biblical
Was it one of those Lovecraftian horror angels then?

>>89040775
>Wolverine has to fight a Seraph
>keeps getting his fleshed burned off by it's true form
>powers through anyway

I'd read it.

>>89040882
>flaming metal skeleton, terminator style, vs an angel with three pairs of burning wings
Holy fuck, why isn't this a thing yet?

>>89040910
That can be his revival. Maybe even have him talk to his adopted cucked father in heaven.

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>>89039583
well, if we're having fun with the absolute shit that was the event...
This one is my favorite.

>>89040986
>Don' need control! Got power! See?
YAASS

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>>89040986

>>89036726
On the one hand I should get mad at the fact people still regard Millar's Civil War highly, but on the other hand I'm okay with them starting to realize there's problems with it. One step at a time.

Ironically AvX and Bendis' Civil War II made me reassess Millar's Civil War and gave me the realization that yes, Millar is a better event writer than Bendis and the "Architects" even in spite of Millar's Civil War being a pile of shit. How did things get this bad?

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>>89041032

>>89041092
Millar understands that even if your story isn't great you can still be entertaining, or at least interesting. I think Millar also gets the inherent absurdity that accompanies the superhero genre needs to be treated seriously within the work.

>>89040663
A

>>89037542
That's the only thing it refers to, historically/academically. I didn't post it, but if you're triggered enough by it you could always do us all a favor and fire up an image editor and fix it.

I vote: Corporate Super-hero Comic Books

>>89038727
Even then, many of them don't know what the fuck they're talking about and the fact that they're employed makes AV Club a questionable source

>>89036644
>[citation needed]

>>89037967
u got a problem wit ultimate u got a Robles with me buckeroo

>>89038158
Wait, so Alfred has a sassy brown britchick daughter?

>>89041787

Please don't respond to those posts

>>89036644

Honestly I want Civil War III to happen......so that the Marvel heroes infight and subsequently get their ass kicked by a bunch of villains who got wise.

Preferably an obscure villain who had just enough prep time (due to Civil War I & II) to actually organize some fellow villains properly.

I'm sick of hero infighting in comics without the villains exploiting it. Because if I was a super-villain, I certainly would.

>>89041821
Honestly that sounds like something Millar was leading up to with Old Man Logan and Wanted.

>>89041844

I really want the heroes to reap the consequences of constantly infighting, which is the villains getting stronger. The old guard of villains actually gets time to train a whole successor generation, because the heroes wasted so much time battling each other.

>>89041901
You overestimate how much time heroes actually spend fighting each other. The only real battle of Civil War II lasted less than half an hour. Heroes spend the vast majority of their time fighting villains or doing hero stuff.

>>89041901
isn't that basically what Secret Invasion and Dark Reign were about? I mean I'm not saying SI and DR were good stories, but they are the logical progression of Civil War and heroes divided.

>>89039583

This reaction realistically reflects the likely competency of the incoming administration though.

>>89041946

Which is why the inevitable Civil War III should drag on and on. They've only been able to get away with battling each other because the conflicts have been short.

>>89041982

They're de facto sequels to "Civil War"?

>>89036726
>>89037284
McNiven is a talented artist and Millar is a talented writer, the pacing of Civil War is fine, the story is retarded but flows well and Millar as always delivers good action when backed up by a good artist. The characterization is absolutely miserable and the conflict stupid, but there's a reason why it was such a popular comic. It's easy for casuals to get into, it catches the eye and maintains interest even if only out of morbid curiosity. I'd argue these factors qualify it as well made on a specific level of event schlock.
>>89037701
Cap escaping the helicarrier, THOU ART NO THOR, even the original explosion is a pretty good scene (had it not been used the way it was in the story)

>>89042090
Shut up, Millar.

>>89039457
oh shit he does

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>>89038128
Quite uncanny indeed.

Gordon does look pretty badass there.

>>89036644
>>89036653
Lol who Cares, you know Marvel is winning money with the movies :-)

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>>89040986
>>89041032
>>89041219

Have some EXPLOITABLE

>>89042015
It realistically reflects the competency of most administrations.

Remember when Marvel tried to imply that Osborn and Dark Reign were all Dubya's fault and Obama stopped him, but failed to account for the fact that Siege was published in 2010? Turning Shadow the Trump into a smiling Hillary wouldn't have done a damn thing about the implications in that scene, only changed the tone.

>>89037869
Agree.

>>89042560
Filtered, shill.

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>>89042347

>>89036653
We REALLY need a Secret Wars II storytime one day.

>>89042608
Shilling for what ?

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>>89039583
Carol Danvers first came to public prominence in the 1970s. Her career was not without its share of controversy, much of which was about her approach to legal or social justice, and much of which was sexual in nature.

She had received a boost to the forefront of popularity in recent years, mostly due to a massive third-party PR campaign on her behalf. Her stand-offish, abrasive personality cause even her best friends and allies to admit that it can be a strain to support her. She is regarded as a staunch defender of justice against bigotry, despite her support of profiling and predictive policing. She not only has no compunction with killing as a means to an end, but has even boasted about doing so in the past. She was praised by the sitting president for her leadership abilities, despite dubious results and the preventable deaths of her subordinates.

Her media support and supposedly large, vocal fanbase had not proven to help her accomplish all that much when it counted, which suggests that her supporters weren't all that fervent or maybe not all that numerous in the first place.

In other words, Carol Danvers is the Hillary Clinton of comic books.

>>89042840
Not bad for a company that supports Drumpf.

>>89043023
>Drumpf
Go back to tumblr already, you sperg.

>>89040663
Northstar is part of a team .

>>89043539
Yeah. A team of fellow losers like him.

>>89041821
Villains are not an Us VS Them situation outside of a couple that get mad their superhero husbando won't return their calls like Baron Zemo or Madam Masque. They would simply keep doing what they were always doing in using their abilities for their own gain.

>>89042840
>Fantastic Four #1 happened 15 years ago
>Came to prominence in the 1970s
Huh?