Why didn't God use his wonders to magic the slaves free

God wasn't the protagonist for one

>>89009582
Moses is literally just a proxy for God.

THUS SAITH THE LORD

>>89009571
God was a dick in the Old Testament. He mellows down after fucking Mary and cucking Joseph. Cucking was the last dick thing he ever did.

>>89009644
Can we get a "Cuckold's Bible Anthology"?

>God
>good guy
God threw satan into Hell for loving him to much, God has always been the villain.

>>89009653
Why was he so determined to have the slaves freed, then?

>>89009692
>the slaves were Jews
>1000s of years later the Jews run the world into the ground
God plays the long game anon

>>89009571
More like "Why the fuck Dreamworks thought it was a good idea to make the Old Testament a film for children ?"

after God has a kid he became more chill like most parents

>>89009571
The moral of the story is "do not fuck with my chosen peeps or I'll send somebody to work my will and bring the holy smackdown of your asses".

Remeber Sodem? Only good people living there were escorted out by angels while the city was hit by somekind of almighty nuke.

>>89009784
Of those good people, two were father rapers, one was a drunk, and one was killed on the spot for turning around to see what all the ruckus was

>>89009824
Pretty much.
The OT was really fucked up.

Remember the time one of the biblical heroes cut off two hundred dicks?
Or that Samson went out and casually murdered hundreds everyday?

>>89009852
It was a different time

>>89009852
I think that was David, who went out and got a metric fuckton of foreskins to convince a king to let him marry his daughter.

>>89009653
>God threw satan into Hell for loving him to much, God has always been the villain.
>Things that aren't in the Bible
That's just Milton

>>89009878
Who counted all of them?

>>89009571

You know God, knew how this story would start and finish a few million years ago, right?

>>89009954
A cocky guy

>>89009571

Remember when the pharaoh decided that the descendants of the guy who saved Egypt from starvation were getting a bit too numerous, and the best solution was enslaving them and having his soldiers chop up their kids?

God remembered, I bet.

Guilt by association is okay when God does it.

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>Moses I'ma need you to set the slaves free
>aight no problem, I'm his adopted brother and the one guy who knows how best to talk to him, I'll go to him and reasonably point out the massive inequalities that exists between masters and slaves and see if I can't make him see things our way--
>NO, demand he relinquish his traditional workforce with a five-syllable sentence and transform your stick into snake to threaten him with

>>89010063

>He seriously thinks that Moses freeing the Israelites was about slavery being wrong

Nigga.

After they take Israel they go on to keep slaves themselves, with Moses and God laying down rules for how to do it and what people you can take as slaves.

God wanted the Jews let go because the Jews were his chosen people who are more important and special than other human beings. It has nothing to do with the principle of the thing.

God left this confusion on purpose, so that you would ask this question, and receive an answer.

The purpose of doing things in this way is so that both the Egyptians and the Israelites would become aware of the power of God, which is the only way that anyone can succeed, or live.

"Exodus 9:16 But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."

>>89009571
To make a point.

It's that simple.

We need to keep in mind that God isn't Superman. God isn't meant to only embody contemporary ideals of fairness and justice. Ours or anyone else's. There are points to be made about that, sure, but a lot of times it goes beyond that.

And judging by all the almost, indirect and outright child murder, we're not always meant to feel warm and fuzzy about the point God is trying to make.

If we buy into the idea of God at all, we must also understand that He is all powerful, all knowing, and that any justice or fairness you find on Earth is brief, if not ultimately insignificant in God's time line. He is beyond life and death, and all that shit was part of a much bigger plan.

tl;dr maybe they got a coupon in the afterlife for being such good sports about the murder by miracle thing?

>>89009652
One word: Bathsheba

>>89009571
Because he can. God was still learning how to be a good father to humanity just like humans were learning to be good children. He had us too young, it's hard being a single dad

>>89010196
>>89009776
I guess the uncountable millions of lifeforms (animals, humans, pre-human primates, dinosaurs etc) that came before don't count as his 'children'?

>>89010165

>tl;dr maybe they got a coupon in the afterlife for being such good sports about the murder by miracle thing?

Didn't Hebrew not have a defined concept of an afterlife at that point? That's what I read somewhere, anyway, could be wrong.

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>>89009852
>Samson
Samson is great. The last thing he does with his life is a murder-suicide, because he wants revenge for having his eyes poked out (which probably isn't the worst reason really).

He uses his superpowers one final time to collapse the temple he was being held in, where everyone had brought their families to watch him perform, killing himself and everyone their in the process. It is said that in death, he killed more people than he had his entire life... And he was the guy who beat to death an entire army with just the jawbone of an ass!

He was basically a drunken, glory seeking asshole, who used his powers for whatever he felt just because he could.

A his wedding, he gave the groomsmen an unsolvable riddle, and said if they can solve it he'll give them all new clothes. So the they threaten his wife, and get her to ask him for the answer to the riddle.

Samson tells her and she tells them, but he knows they cheated, so he goes out and kills a bunch of other Philistines, steals their clothes and gives them to groomsman.

Samson is still pissed off about them cheating, so he abandons the wedding and goes to stay at his dad's house. Later he goes to his father-in-law's house who tells him that Samson is such an angry dick who abandoned his wife on their wedding night that he gave her to another man and they are now married.

He then tells Samson the he'll let him marry one of her sisters instead, but this pisses Samson again. So he goes out and catches 300 foxes and ties them together, lights them on fire and sends them into town where they burn down all the Philistines crops.

The Philistines are upset, and they blame Samson's would-be father-in-law for giving his wife to another man, and so they murder him, the wife and husbanded, by lighting their houses on fire. This pisses off Samson more so goes on a murder spree, killing everyone in town.

That's basically his life, causing destruction and being really pissed off. He's the Hulk, basically.

>>89010234

There's only one thing on earth really worthy of having as children:

White people

>>89010234
Old Testament God is really shitty that way and has no issue with playing favourites. The Joseph story kind of shows how shitty and unfair he is by having humans do the same shit but at the same time the narrative says Jacob is in the right for driving his family apart by playing favourites. The problem with the bible is that a lot of the narrative only makes sense if you accept that God by nature of being God is always in the right

>>89010281

Fuck, he even spoke in puns.

>With an ass's jawbone I have made asses of them!
>With an ass's jawbone I've killed thousands of men!

>>89009571
>god

Those were all the actions of the demiurge

Did God once torture some poor old dude to prove that his people would stay loyal to him no matter what? Killed his son, gave him the plague or some shit, etc just because someone was talkin shit.

>>89010354
Job got better. After that shit he got more dosh, a better pad AND a new, cooler wife and children.

See? God does happy endings.
>But Job's first family-
HAPPY. ENDING.

protagonist=/=saint

>No series of Dreamworks Biblical movies culminating in an animated Book of Revelations

>>89009571
If history is any hint, god really, really, really hates Hebrews.

>>89009571
God is a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules. Especially not His own rules.

You takin' some sort of census, OP? This is a nice human population you got here. Shame if something were to happen to it.

>>89010354

technically God allowed Satan to fuck him instead of fucking Job up Himself

>>89010432

Eh, it'd get boring as shit around the time Jesus showed up.

>>89010263

I thought they had Sheol, does that only become a concept in King David's time?

Discussing religion on 4chan is the worst possible mistake you can make in your day

>>89009571
I thought the visual story-telling of this movie was quality. The lighting, framing and positioning of the characters were all top notch.
For example, I loved the shot when Pharaoh was proclaiming the importance of maintaining the empire and the camera cuts to this hard, two-dimensional wide shot, the characters are black silhouetted profiles against a detailed background of city and statues. It looks like a hieroglyph. Deliciously the same shot appears again when Moses goes back to Ramses and he parrots his father's lesson and you see his statue next to his father's and he's built it just a little bit bigger. Ramses of course brags about his empire/city being even "greater" than his father's.

The music was a surprising sour spot for me. Half of each song was great and half trash. eg I liked the menace and sultriness of "Playing with the Big Boys" but the main refrain of" Playing with the Big Boys/Playing with the Big Boys" was repetitive and tedious. I liked the dual harmonies of the female voices in When You Believe but I found Through Heaven's Eyes cringey. etc

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If God is all powerful he cannot be all good

>>89010456
It was a bet!! Like humans never bet on anything. And guess who won that bet? It wasn't Satan!
>Job?
Ahahaha, haahahahahaha... No.

>>89010474

try and and say that with a straight face after getting your dick caught in your zipper

>>89009692

>Why was he so determined to have the slaves freed, then?

Because the Jews were his pet project.

If God was against slaves on principle then why did he instruct the Jews he freed on how to keep them?

>>89010483

I like how the Angel of Death appears out of a transdimensional portal from space.

>>89010474

Depends on the day

Besides, everyone knows the worst mistake you can make is sleeping with an African hooker

>>89010499

Job as a story is pretty fucking interesting for the sheer concept of God and Satan shooting the shit and making bets. I get the chills picturing Satan sneaking in amongst the other angels and basically being like "Yo God these humans ain't shit, fuck humans dude. Let me prove how shit they are."

>>89010522
Vietnamese but yeah

>>89009774
I was amazed it only garnered a "G"-rating. Like parents would want to put five year old Sally in front of infant drowning, infant genocide (through soldiers), infant genocide (through god), whipping slaves, starvation, diseased skin, a river of blood, mass drownings, etc and leave the room without explaining it.

>>89010507
"aliens built the pyramids confirmed" was my first thought

>>89010063
>>89009571

The whole point of the movie is that God was trying to bring the Egyptian gods to heel. Remember, God didn't do anything against the Pharaoh, even though it would be the most obvious solution. Why?

It's because the Pharaoh is a true believer in the Gods of Egypt. God can't touch him, because he's already favored by another pantheon. He has to work through Moses, and he HAS to get the Pharaoh to back down by metaphysically dick-slapping him into submission.

Moses doesn't have any control of the miracles at all. He's just told to do this, then that, then horrible fucking things happen. As far as I know, Moses was no sorcerer or priest, he was just some dude.

>>89009571
The entire point of the Exodus of Egypt was to BTFO the Egyptian Gods.

>>89010620
God had power over Pharaoh, after like the 3rd or 4th plague he was ready to let the Jews go but God hardened his heart to change his mind.

>>89010620

this more or less, it's like asking why Batman doesn't kill Joker. God is fighting an ideological war, he's metaphysically executing the Egyptian gods through the process of the plagues

>>89010640

I never bought the whole 'God hardened the Pharaoh's heart' bit, because it seems counterproductive. Like, that's just being a dick for no real reason.

Also, don't Pharaohs have divine blood?

>>89010640
"hardened his heart" is a phrase we think we understand more than we actually do, it's more complex than corrupting Pharoah's will, it's more like Pharoah reacting to God in a certain way. Jews understood this, which is why other scriptures simultaneously claim that God hardened Pharoah's heart and also that Pharoah hardened his own heart, and also that Moses hardened Pharoah's heart

the best way to explain it to a modern day English speaker would be to tell them to pretty much equate it to the phrase "you made me angry". Of course the other person isn't reaching into your brain and forcing you to be mad, you're describing how you reacted to a person's actions

>>89010673
see
>>89010644

He needed to keep the plagues going until the end.

>>89010640
God wasn't done proving his point. At that moment Pharaoh wasn't a person, he was an example. If the goal were as simple as "I want Pharaoh to listen to me" then God could have just thrown him into a whale or something.

>>89010673
>Also, don't Pharaohs have divine blood?
They thought he did, but the Lord went out of his way to disprove that theory and shit all over the Egyptian pantheon to separate the true God from the pretenders.

From the Old Testament's point of view, what were the Egyptian Gods anyway? This movie makes them out to be literally smoke and mirrors, but that's bullshit. The Egyptian priests DID have magic powers. The point was that the powers Moses got from God were way better; not that the power of the Gods of Egypt was a total hoax.

So who was backing them? Whose power they invoking to perform their miracles? Demons? Satan?

>>89010764

egyptian priest bullshit could have been some weird hermit science stuff, at least some of it. ancient people knew way more shit than we give them credit for, look up greek fire sometime

>>89010805
Naw man no amount of hermit science is going to turn a staff into a snake. That's some wild nanomachine shit that I'm not prepared to give anybody credit for just yet.

>>89010764


A strange thing happens as you read the bible. During the beginning Yaweh is the most powerful of the Gods, but other Gods exist and Jews can only worship Yaweh. As the bible progresses that changes and Yaweh becomes the Only real God. Of course, why in the beginning there were other Gods and where they got their power isn't explained.

>>89010821
1. feed snake weird hermit drugs to sedate it
2. slide snake into tube of imitation wood
3. go showboat in front of Pharoah, subtly cover imtiation wood in dissolving chemical that doesn't harm snake skin idfk
4. wood dissolves, pissed off snake writhes around

abra kadabra

either that or they were fucking around with quantum sorcery or communing with demons, maybe a healthy portion of all three

>>89010859

Yahweh's interactions with various Biblical champions is representative of the Spirit of Reality coaxing men out of their wood-hut polytheistic beliefs and gradually opening their mind to the abstract notion of one invisible deity that's the master of time and space

>>89010878

Personally, I think they really had magic and they really had gods. But the Gods were old, tired and bloated where Yahweh was young, dynamic and ready to fuck shit up. Once it became clear that they weren't willing to stop the scourging of Egypt, that was the end of the Egyptian pantheon.

>>89010859
Yeah the Bible is very vague on some points. Like when Adam and Eve get evicted from Paradise, they find other people already set up outside the Garden. Where did these people come from? Did God make them on the sly before the apple? Or on the fly right after? Just how old are Adam and Eve if they're some of the earliest creations, but we've got a whole other group of people already established outside of the Garden?

>>89010908
>Personally, I think they really had magic and they really had gods.

I'll say that I'm not going to rule anything out, I certainly don't know enough to be super firm in disagreement to that

>>89010912
>they find other people already set up outside the Garden.

I thought it mentioned other people for the first time when Cain starts wandering the Earth, not when Adam and Eve are evicted

>>89010764

It's a continuity error

Biblical scholarship makes it blatantly obvious that the the earlier bible texts consider other gods to be completely real.

This is also where the retarded "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" plothole.

It was obviously intended to be the Gods of Egypt who hardened his heart.

>>89010967

literally none of this true, correlating with other texts totally disproves the second thing you said and the first thing requires a pinch of non-literalistic thinking

>>89010908
Yaweh is an aspect of Baal gone rogue who then tells everyone Baal is evil to cover his tracks. Early bibles interchangeably used Baal and God's other names, apparently.

>>89010987

I thought the claim was that early God in the Bible was Dagon rather than Baal

this has actually been a pretty nice religious discussion

>>89010999
Eh, i just stumbled on "early bibkes called god baal" a few days ago while looking at other shit. Ain't no expert on this, but the biblical God seems to definately be derived from a different tradition.

>>89010474
We are not discussing religion just the events in the bible

>>89011076

Huh, I remember reading about a similar theory that He was initially Dagon, but it was based on a more nuanced reading of current edition scripture instead of an early bibles claim

>>89009571
Because every plague was an opportunity for the Egyptians to stop going full retard and release the Jews. If you can't learn, you get used to teach.

>>89009571
God is a world class asshole that creates suffering for the lulz

>>89009644
Oh, don't forget that in the end he will send most of mankind into the fiery abyss of hell and only allow a few thousand people into heaven for the sole purpose of stroking his ego for all eternity.

>>89012216
Depending on the sect, all heaven spots may already be taken.

>>89009571
Yaweh is a curious Egregore, however It cannot be determined whether it is the Origin or Not.
Due to the point of its ego flaws and sins of personality, that raises this inquiry.

The Great Unity, The forgiving father of Yeshua Ben Yosef cannot be a creature that has little empathy toward its fellow creations.

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>>89009571
>be God
>create many major religions and religious texts on Earth
>only one of them grants you eternal happiness while others eternal torrent


What did God mean by this?

>>89010494
If grandma's peach tea is urine, God cannot be all good

>>89010620
God vs entire Egyptian pantheon. Who wins?

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>>89010859
>>89010912
>all the philosophical implication of there being no God and whether God is good
>/co/ picks out inconsistencies with side characters

>>89010151
Ah, so he's just feeding His almighty ego

>>89010494
That's the problem with the "Singular X is God" theory.

God is a Collective Unity of All Things, which allows it to be all things, and one thing simulataeonsly. It also allows for clauses of seperation.

Example, I am a fractured piece of the Collective Unity, and so are you. Let's say I am wicked, and you are good. You could say "Ah! Then by your wickedness, God is wicked!"

Thats where the seperation clause comes from "It is not the Fractured Portion of the Collective Unity that is wicked, is it the Flesh it is contained within!"

Therefore all things within the Collective Unity can be their own thing, while at the same time The Collective Unity being everything, yet being singular at the same time.

It's really confusing to take in at first.

>>89012372
Egyptian pantheon. The egyptian belief was that the stuff in the afterlife will continue to exist as long as people say their names and they are remembered .They have won by simply being remembered.

Of note, is that the Egyptian pantheon is closer to the holy trinity than to other pantheons. The Egyptians recognized that there was a single powerful force behind all the gods, but chose to worship it's aspects separately instead of THE god.

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>>89009774
Because this didn't change that much

>>89012419
All is one, one is all.

The White Light when shone through a Prism breaks into many colors. Each color is an extension of White, and will return to White once the Prism is removed.

Sometimes the light coming out of the Prism is flawed, due to chips or internal flaws of the Prism. That's okay, that doesn't mean that the colored light is flawed, it just means that the means in which it manifests itself is, and should be fixed.

Even if it can't, it's only temporary.

You are the fractured light manifested, not the Prism.

>>89010607
The MPAA is literally run in part by Jewish and Christian clergy. I think they gave it a pass because they saw religious and moral value in it and wanted it to be as accessible as possible.

Just speculation of course.

>>89012268
Nah, the way that it's supposed to work is that everyone dies and remains dead until the apocalypse happens, then everyone is brought back to fight in a huge worldwide war. At the end, Jesus stands in judgement over individuals based on how they lived their lives. Only those that are perfect are allowed to enter heaven. Everyone else goes to hell.

Most churches don't teach this because the Christian religion has been twisted and contorted to suit later cultures that 'converted' to Christianity. Telling people that there is a 99.9999% chance that they and everyone they love will go to hell no matter how much lipservice they play to god or how much priest balls they lick, is really counterproductive toward getting people to believe so that they can convert and the priests won't have dry balls.

>>89010196
>Omnipotent
>Still learning

Uh huh

>>89012535
So really the only people left who preach Christianity aren't really Christians. Just trying to get blown?

>>89009571
Because the plagues of Egypt are just describing the results of a toxic algae bloom and god is a cunt and also is probably not real/had nothing to do with it.

>>89009571
Couse God is an asshole

>>89012636
We know for a fact that frog storms are a thing, what are the odds that the toxic bloom and frog rain happened at the same time as a massive drought and locust infestation?

Just playing devil's advocate.

>>89010683
But God knows all. So he knew his actions would harden the Pharaoh's heart. He may as well have been reaching in his brain

>>89012683
Don't forget people love to exaggerate stories especially if they the jews, are the winners. But to be fair there is very little actual archaeological evidence that Egypt ever had a large population of Jewish slaves anyway so yeah.

>>89012633
In a manner of speaking, yes. At least at the top.

Think about how many Christians actually don't know much of anything about the Bible because they haven actually read it. There are people that actually believe what they are taught and try to spread that, however.

>>89012710
It's not rocket science, Ramses watched his brother and best friend turn against him for the god of his slaves. Judaism/Christianity were minority factions at the time for peasants, usurers, so of course Ramses thought it was stupid that he was going to lose his closest friend to a desert cult. Then, at least according to the story all the things Moses predicted actually happened. So tl;dr he basically decided Yaweh was actually his enemy and was like "Alright, motherfucker"

>>89009571
After seeing this movie, I've got one thing to say:

Moses > Jesus

Moses at least did shit. Jesus 'died for our sins', yet people keep sinning.

BRAVO CHRIST

>>89012372
In terms of a hypothetical battle between fictional characters, it depends on who you ask. According to the Bible, God already won that fight hard. I'm sure followers of Amun-Ra would say otherwise.

So if it's all the followers of the Ancient Egyptian Gods vs. all the followers of the Abrahamic religions, the latter would almost certainly win.

>>89012743
They even managed to tard wrangle a couple millenials with christchan.

>>89012781
>So tl;dr he basically decided Yaweh was actually his enemy and was like "Alright, motherfucker"

Which God knew would happen. It's his fault.

>>89012683
Drought and locusts are related to the algae bloom as well. You can't exactly use the poison blood water and if the bloom drove off the frogs (who got sucked up in a typhoon anyway) there is no one eating the locust spawn.

>>89012847
>Which God knew would happen.

It's not like there's any point to reinforcing the idea that God is omnipotent when the question still remains as to whether or not he exists. But it can be inferred that even if he wasn't, he could assume how the chain of events would play out. Pharaoh thought of himself as a god in his own right. The entire parable revolves around his hubris.

>>89009774
It was a pretty good film.
Kids can deal with a little divine wrath.

>>89012974
I agree, the movie itself is an awesome retelling, great songs, definitely outshines Hercules.

>>89012820
In olden egyptian times, the hebrew people were literally a bunch of worker and mercenary tribes. By the time the jews come into the picture, egypt doesn't exist as it's own thing. More of as a roman or islamic state. Hebrews lose at near any historic time, with the exception of the islamic era at some points, where egyot was pretty much a husk and full of christians hiding in old ruins anyway.

>>89009571
Teleportation powers isn't canon.

>>89010281
>Reatard strength

>>89010281
Yea, but the Philistines are the bad guys.

>>89012814
People keep sinning, but thanks to God's sacrifice, they don't have to suffer for all eternity any more.

>>89013057
Sorry, I'm not catching on very well. Are you limiting what constitutes as followers of these Gods as well as the time period in order to suit some point you're trying to make? Because I was answering in a far less narrow context.

I'm not calling you a pedant, but I feel as though we're answering that post from wildly different angles.

>>89013222
If they keep sinning then they are not perfect and will suffer for eternity. Christ didn't write a blank check. His time here was supposed to be an example of how to live. But it's hard to live that way, so clergy preach the blank check angle to fleece the masses.

>>89013311
>curse fig trees
>whip moneylenders
>bitch about how God has forsaken you
Some example.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure actual Christian canon disagrees with you.

>>89013311
It was only a matter of time before someone came in here to make the claim that the central tenets of Christianity were bogus.

I think the real battle here is Prince of Egypt vs. Jesus Christ Superstar

>>89013277
By the time abrahamic religions gain enough traction to be a military power, egypt itself is following the abrahamic religions. There are no egyptian pantheon followers to fight.

>>89013465
Well with Jesus Christ Superstar, the only thing holding it back is Herod's Song.

The 2000 version of that song is fantastic, as the lyrics are clearly meant to be mocking, or at least work better as mocking.

The original film's version is so damn weak.

>>89013411
>He didn't bitch about being forsaken until he was up on the cross suffering unimaginable pain.
>implying that there's something wrong with beating bankers
>implying that there's something wrong with cursing fig trees

>>89013415
Well, they are bogus. See you in hell.

>>89009644

Its almost as if some one wanted to make Christianity more accessible.

>>89013503
Nice try, Satan.

>>89009571
>Why didn't God use his wonders to magic the slaves free himself?

Because He wanted the glory of the entire story to happen. Literally one of the big purpose's of mankind is to bring Him glory. It's why He chose to send his Son to die.

And yeah, the Egyptians (and most people back then) weren't innocent. They'd kept the Israelites as slaves for generations at that point. There was nothing preventing random Egyptians from anointing their own doors with blood to turn away the angel of death. At that point you can be sure a bunch of the savvy peoples had seen all the weird shit and knew what was going on.

>killing innocent farm stock animals
>condemning the Pharaoh's army to a watery grave even though they were simply following orders in order to feed their own families

See now you're just reaching.

>>89009571
Honestly, God doesn't work that way if God exists. I have read all of The Bible and apocrypha and The Torah and nothing ever suggests he can do anything "magically". God has ultimate control over nature and can manipulate matter also can create using natural systems (evolution was discovered by a Catholic and The Pope also knows evolution is real) that develop over time. God is the reason FOR LIFE but uses logical pathways to create it not just thin air.

God has to do things like this to pressure Pharaoh to free his slaves and give Jews religious freedom. Moses did warn Pharaoh first God was real and could accomplish this but Pharaoh just showed him his magicians and laughed because they could already do tricks.

The people killed weren't innocent because they were enjoying the fruits of slave labor.

Its just like being sad about all the dead in The American South. Evil isn't purely about doing direct harm to others sometimes its being comfortable benefiting from it too.

Finally, its Pharaohs own damn fool idea for ordering his troops into such a situation. God never compelled the troops to die.

>>89013523
Wouldnt Satan want you to NOT live by Christ's example and instead place your faith in a belied system that guarantees that you sin again and again with the false belief that you'll still be granted eternal paradise (of slavery) by simply saying "I'm sorry" or go to a building to pay lip service once a week?

>>89013472
Yeah, that's pretty much why I said the latter wins the followers battle in the bigger picture. Growth vs. stagnation. Looking across history and the present only one of these religions went on to dominate large swaths of the planet.

>>89013645
Miracles, as such when they are investigated by the church, really do tend to be just what can be classified as "extremely coincidental and exaggerated" natural phenomena.

While the movie was hugely lacking, Ridley Scott's Exodus played with that hard.

>>89010165
Flesh and blood world doesn't matter anyway this was explained by Jesus in many passages. Its better to cut off your arms than sin. This life is the proving ground for the afterlife. We don't "deserve" to live just because we are born and shit. God can choose for us to die and its beyond good and evil. Our souls will be with Him.

>>89009571
To put the fear of God in them

>>89013499
Herod's number was still better than Simon Zealotes.

>Prove to me that you're no fool!
>Clap! Clap! Walk across my swimming pool!

>>89013645
> nothing ever suggests he can do anything "magically".
>God has ultimate control over nature and can manipulate matter

You've just described "magic".

Look, OT God is a dick because that's what gods were supposed to be. Nobody asks why is Zeus a petty tyrant. So when the Jews made their God they just did what everyone else did at the time: made him with the personality of an earthly king but with supernatural powers.

>>89013846
The song is really well constructed, there's no doubt.
But the singer had just the wrong energy, and his voice didn't project.

Two things that Simon Zealotes had.

>>89013740
>false belief
>eternal paradise (of slavery)
How's that "rebel against the omnipotent creator of the universe" plan coming along?

>>89009571
I only like this movie because of the visuals.

>>89013740
I don't do any of that and I still expect preferential treatment. I was raised protestant, son. Jesus knows I'm cool. We go way back. To Sunday school. I already got my heaven voucher ready to flash at the door.

>>89013645

I fucking hate this meme.

If God created the entire world to deliberately appear completely deterministic just to fuck with us he would be a bigger cunt than even the Old Testament makes him out to be.

>evolution was discovered by a Catholic and The Pope also knows evolution is real

If you're gonna go that path then why not mention the fact that, you know, the Exodus never happened and even biblical and Jewish scholars admit this.

The Jews were never slaves in egypt and they certainly never escaped in the manner depicted in Exodus.

>>89012710

I'm the dude you responded to. Yeah, you're spot on with that. God understood that Pharoah's heart would be hardened, in fact he tells Moses ahead of time that this will be the case, demonstrating that knowledge. Where it differs from the "may as well have been reaching in his brain" is not in the ends but the means. There was no corruption of free will, basically, which again was something the original speakers and interpreters of scripture were well aware of.

>>89012350
>God created religions
>not man

>>89014080
>entire world to deliberately appear completely deterministic

are you just like not at all noided on quantum physics or what?

>>89009571
>Why didn't God use his wonders to magic the slaves free himself?
God helps those who helps themselves

>>89013984
I like this movie because I learned to join the dance LAI LA LAI LAI LEE LA LAI

>>89014161

>It's a "The Uncertainty Principle disproves Determinism" episode

I hate this meme too

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>pharaoh declares himself a god who can literally do anything
>lineage is known for violently murdering children by throwing them to the crocs
>the REAL God comes in and tells him to cut that out
>Pharaoh gets ass-damaged when God blows him out of the water

The prick had it coming, as did everyone who blindly followed him despite evidence to the contrary. It's not our fault that shows like Steven Universe have softened us to the concept of exacting retribution against villains, instead of talking it out in a safe space where everyone gets to cry.

>>89014374
>The prick had it coming, as did everyone who blindly followed him despite evidence to the contrary
Yeah, those fucking first-born Egyptian babies should have just left or elected a new pharaoh.

>>89014374

>everyone who blindly followed him despite evidence to the contrary

You mean evidence like their food rotting away and their cattle falling over dead and fireballs falling on their houses?

Oh yeah, that's real compelling, if someone came into your country and started ruining literally everything for seemingly no reason at all wouldn't you just SO want to do whatever that guy told you to do? When you hold the lifeless body of your child in your arms wouldn't your first thought just be "Man, that Pharaoh really is a big meaniehead!"

Also just a friendly reminder that God and the Israelites had nothing at all against the concept of slavery and indeed kept slaves themselves.

Pharaoh wasn't a villain by any metric other than "Did something God didn't want"

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>>89009571
Because religion isn't built on rationality, it's built on fear. If no one was afraid of God, no one would obey him. Hence "I am an angry and Jealous God" when the israelites made an idol to replace him.

That being said, no one ever said God wasn't cruel. Forgiving, yes; kind, not so much. He's butchered countless of people for almost no reason

>Samson cut his hair? Take away his strength! Make him a hulking joke!
>you were curious and decided to look at the destruction of a city? PILLAR OF SALT!
>Job is literally perfect and is doing literally nothing wrong? Just fuck his shit up, the devil said I didn't have the balls to do it, but I'll show him!
No, seriously. He ruined a guys life over a bet.
>You got angry because I speak in riddles? You cannot go to the promised land that I've been hyping up for decades

Raven unrelated

Is there a good book about this whole "God metaphysically BTFO Other Pantheons thing" you guys keep bringing up?

>>89015001
As in how many times he squanched other faiths?

Never. God isn't out to prove anyone wrong or to convince people, he exists to be worshipped by the willing.

>>89009571
he did it to show off to his people, seriously that's the real answer, read your Bible

>>89009653
that's apocrypha

>>89009774
>"imagine teaching children, CHILDREN! well known Bible stories!

Calm down

We aren't supoosed to get how He thinks, that's why He's God.

>>89015101
That's wrong, you fucking idiot.

>>89015065
What a dick.

The Old Testament is great because it understands two things:
People are selfish idiots.
God is not human and we shouldn't try to understand him, but we still do because we can't help ourselves.

>>89015138

He works in mysterious ways, as they say.

>>89009571

> killing

God is the owner of all life. If he wanted he could take the breath of life back to him and everyone would instantly die. Or wink and all those who ever died, in all ages through our history be immediately revived.

I take this is a /co/ fedora thread, but you really shouldn't try to judge the omnipotent being who is more complex than concepts such as time, life and destiny.

>>89014080
Egypt did hire a few hundred Habiru (The nomadic tribes that later become the Hebrews) around this time, but they were proffesional workers who were let go when the contract ended.

>>89015215

I will never understand why some Christians think that "Might makes right" suddenly becomes a compelling and relatable position just because they apply it to their bronze-age Coldsteel the Edgehog wanna-be.

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Stop ripping off our stories, you damn jews!

>>89015522

Anon, it's not might makes right. It's simply that God controls death. You cannot complain about 'fair' and 'unfair' deaths, since everyone strives to live. He simply works outside human viewpoints.

>>89012814
I agree.
Even though every Abrahamic prophet is a giant asshole, as least Moses was the one who put in genuine work.

Jesus was telling everyone else to kill and plunder in his name while he sat back and watched most of the time. Moses, on the other hand, usually had to put himself on the front lines.

>>89009571

Because god is a jerk.
He wants people to constantly praise him every single day, fucks with everyone for his own enjoyment, and will make sure anyone that doesn't play along suffers for eternity.

Why doesn't god just come down and prove to everyone he exists? Because he's an asshole.

>>89015738

>Anon, it's not might makes right.

It literally is.
´
It is the exact definition of "Might makes Right"

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>>89015215
>you really shouldn't try to judge the omnipotent being who is more complex than concepts such as time, life and destiny

But you can?
And don't try to play the religious highground on an idol-worshipping imageboard that you too are browsing on a Monday afternoon.

>>89015743
Muhammad straight up conquered shit.

>>89015831

It's not 'might makes right' because you are debating with the one who knows every single birth, death and whatever in the world. You cannot say a death is unfair since everyone will eventually die at some point with his knowledge.

>>89015868

> But you can?

Heh, I don't judge him. I only hold him to what he his. And it shows that he is righteousness. You are free to disagree.

>>89015743

Mohammad has that unfortunate business of having sex with twelve year olds tho

>>89016121
Like I said, he got shit done.

>>89015969

>It's not 'might makes right'

>"God can do [Thing]"
>"We can't stop him"
>"So that makes doing [Thing] morally justified"
>"But it's not Might makes Right though :^)"

Just shut the fuck up.

>And it shows that he is righteousness

You just claimed that God was entirely separate from concepts of justice and human morality you fucking dullard.

You can't claim that God is separated from these things as a way to defend him and then claim he defines them at the same time.

Either God embodies the definition of good and justice in himself and everything he does is good and just and fair as a matter of principle, or else he is outside of that and nothing he does "fair"/"unfair" or "good"/"evil"

He can't be both.

>>89015522

It's not exactly "might makes right" because God isn't just the dude with the biggest stick, He flat out supersedes reality, there's a big difference.

The logical progression is that outside of the master and generator of life itself telling you morals, morals are subjective. As humans we decided that some shit isn't cool and some shit is, and it's pretty much arbitrary. However, if God exists, then His morals would be absolute, not because He has the unfaltering power necessary to enforce them (even though He does) but rather because He is the only being that defines reality itself. God is the Definer, everything else is Defined.

The common response to this is an argument from tone: "but x thing is bad! what a bad viewpoint!" but the logical progression still stands. If you want to logically engage with debates on God, repeatedly stating that you're personally not cool with Biblical stories is nothing but you oversharing. It has no bearing or relevance on a logical debate. It doesn't matter what you, or I, or anyone value in terms of morals.

>>89016263

uh, yeah I guess

>>89009653
Citation needed

>>89016265

have you ever considered that your viewpoint would be more appealing if you didn't ad hominem and strawman

>>89014786

From the perspective of you and me Job got fucked pretty hard but the intention of the story, and how the Jews would've interpreted it, is that at the end Job got a sweet deal and he was generously rewarded for enduring his trials. I get that you probably wouldn't agree but for intellectual honesty's sake we should probably consider the story through the cultural lens it was told, the reader is meant to come away thinking that Job had it made

>>89016307
>logical progression

A logical approach is an empirical approach, and an empirical approach cannot be applied to metaphysics. You should never use the word "logic" when talking about God because it undermines your position.

>>89016307

Except these people are the ones that refuse to engage logically with their own beliefs.

They believe that God exists which, as you just said, logically means that God embodies an absolute morality in himself and that human conceptions of morality are meaningless.

But they're too fucking cowardly to accept that so they won't just come out and say that "Yes, when God did [Thing that is obviously transgressive to every modern conception of morality] that was good act" even though per definition if God did it then it must be a good action.

They don't want to be heard saying that bashing babies against rocks can be morally justified so they just pussy-foot around and play word-games forever.

>>89016536

Oh, alright. Yeah in that case I agree with you that bullet needs to be bit for sure.

>>89016518

yeah no, logic is not constrained to empiricism. its the foundation of empiricism. I think science is pretty much the shit but homies like you I will never see eye to eye with

>>89016518

The entirety of mathematics can be proven through thought alone, without empirical evidence

>>89010354
Yeah, it was a bet between Satan and God. It got so bad that at one point Satan just quit because they were getting really fucked up, but God continued anyway.
God and Satan have an interesting relationship.

>>89016675
Um, maths isn't a thing to "prove", it's a system utilised to interpret/catagorise information and it can be applied to almost anything. When you are talking about Christian metaphysics, you are dealing with information taken with a heavy bias towards one or more particular sources for some pretty arbitrary reasons, which isn't logical. Thanks to systems like maths, a logical process is more advanced than it was. The classical elements was logical to the Greeks, based on their limited information. Now, not so much.

>>89009653
t. Supernatural fan

>>89016518
>A logical approach is an empirical approach
No it isn't.

>>89009571
OT God is a cunt.

>>89016797
>God is says lets kill his family
>Satan says this is to much and tries to back out
>God says fuck it and does it anyway
>God is in the right

>>89017654

> God is a bad guy for killing someone
> even through no one ever died without his consent

>>89016536

> modern

That's the keyword. Everything that God did was on par with that time.

> but that means that God isn't perfect

Nope, God is perfect because he treated humanity with exactly the rigidness they needed to be treated with. When humanity hearts are softer however God can treat us with less rigidness.

It's like the difference between a country at war and a country stable. Someone reasonable wouldn't treat both the exactly same way.

>>89016511
The real message of Job is that bad things can sometimes happen to good people. Just because someone has leprosy, it doesn't mean he's done something bad to deserve it.

>>89016675
>what is Gödel's incompleteness principle
It can be proven that the entirety of mathematics cannot be proven.
Mathematicians are crazy and you should not try to emulate the feats of rational thought they perform.

>>89018025
>adjusting His behaviour in response to what humanity is doing
>God is a moral relativist
There are other heresies I like even better, but this one is still pretty good.

>>89018197

Nice strawman. Moral relativism would imply that God morality changes conform humanity. It doesn't, his morality is the same as he stands for the exactly same things. He simply knows you can't treat different people in the exactly same way.

>>89018343
Where exactly does God get his morals?

>>89009852

>Remember the time one of the biblical heroes cut off two hundred dicks?
>Or that Samson went out and casually murdered hundreds everyday?

Wtf I like the Bible now

>>89019242
there was also one time where after their mother's death two daughters got their father drunk and raped him to carry his children

>>89009571
People always call God a dick, but what about the other pantheons? Was Odin and his bunch nice to his followers? How about the Hindu deities?