So Thor's new hammer is not the ultimate version, which

>>88929990
Big2 Capeshit is so terrible

>>88929990
Doom's power was beyond even that of the Phoenix at the time he made those hammers. The power to consume and birth universes. It's not crazy to say Hammers that Doom willed into being at that time would be more powerful than the God Tempest that was used to create the main Mjolnir.

The God Tempest was weak enough that Odin was able to do battle with it and weaken it, and seal it away himself. Doom could probably conjure up God Tempests in his sleep.

>>88929990
I want this stupid as fuck "God Tempest" retcon gone and forgotten

>>88930267

...Eh. I kinda dig it. It makes Mjölnir a little more special.

Let's face it, the hammer has a ridiculously large role already in the comics compared to the legends. So why not make it official.

>>88930267
I think it was kinda neat. The only thing I dislike about it is that it kinda suggest that Thor's power of lightning doesn't come from him conducting it into the hammer to focus it, but from the hammer itself.

>>88929990
U Thor's hammer design was the worst part about the character.

>>88929990
Well, this version of Ultimate Mjolnir is presumably powered by the Beyonders rather than Odin's Magic/the sentient super-storm.

I'm assuming it's probably no more powerful than 616 Mjolnir, it's just a raging storm where 616 mjolnir is a calm one.

>>88930267
I dunno, when the "secret origins of Mjolnir!" was solicited, I was expecting something WAY worse. Mjolnir housing some kind of God-Storm is kinda neat as far as unnecessary retcons go. I don't know how I feel about Mjolnir being sentient, but sentient magic weapons is hardly something knew.

>>88930267
>>88931632
The only problem I have is the retcon that Odin could never use the hammer and in fact never wanted Thor to have it in the first place, which contradicts a bunch stories.

>>88931187
The fuck you on about? Ultimate Mjolnir is awesome. Ultimate Thor was best Thor.

>>88931886
Last time we saw Ultimate Thor was in a Battleworld tie-in Thors, a cop drama about Thors. And it was glorious. At least until Whor showed up.

>>88930562
God of Thunder, Aaron's first and most acclaimed Thor story, had him attacking Gorr with lightning before he ever got his hands on the hammer. Since characters other than Thor get storm powers when they wield the hammer, it makes sense that both Thor and Mjolnir have those powers.

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>>88931886
It looks more like an ax than a hammer. The blunt end is too wide and the blade too long, so it just looks cumbersome.

U Thor himself was a cool guy, though.

>>88931886
The original Ultimate Thor is he still in the negative zone he forced Galactis into, or was he plucked from it by god-DOOM in Secret Wars?

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That hammer was forged by god doom heretic,it's power could be extremely powerful

>>88932186
Presumably plucked from it by God Doom. This Ultimate Mjolnir contains the memories of Ultimate Thor (1610) as well as Ultimate Thor (Battleworld).

>>88931990
Ultimate Thor was a hippie who killed his own child.

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>>88931990
Johnny had no idea how sick reed really was huh

>>88932186
The Negative Zone probably got destroyed with the rest of the multiverse, so that all got reset.

>>88932193
Was there anything suggesting it was stronger than all the other hammers? Thors were a dime a dosen on Battleworld. A literal police force, with hammers for guns. I was always under the impression that the Doom-hammers were of a lesser qaulity than the OG ones.

>>88932186
He technically should be there as well. What most writers didn't seem to understand about Battleworld is that their 616 and Ultimate domains were the only ones who weren't remains of the pre-Incursion Earths, but had to be remade from scratch by God Doom from his own memories because nothing from those earths survived aside from the two life rafts escapees

>>88932204
>This Ultimate Mjolnir contains the memories of Ultimate Thor (1610) as well as Ultimate Thor (Battleworld).
What's your source for saying that? Did I miss something in the mini or was an interview?

>>88932225
Has the Ultimate universe been reset? I thought 616 and 1616 merged, among others to from a singular marvel universe. Isn't that why Miles is there and a couple of Gwens?

>>88932320
Ultimate universe is gone except for Miles and Reed. I guess Franklin like it anymore.

>>88932204
I thought Doom just created carbon copies of a lot of people with small variance between them, some with a creative hint of other established universes and other who were original to Battleworld.

>>88932348
Doom didn't create anything. He just saved bits and pieces that were left around.

>>88932341
What's the F4's status in the cosmic hierarchy after the events of Secret Wars again? Penultimate? The got the old Tribunal's job. They're basically the gods outside of time and space creating entire universes together.

>>88932380
Did he mindwipe them, because everyone worshipped him as THE GOD and I can't assume that if they had their previous knowlegde they would be just so obedient.

>>88932408
Yeah, that is going to be be weird when Reed and Sue come back since they and the kids have been gods for a while, but are they going to go back to fighting Moloids in the streets?

>>88932445
>Did he mindwipe them
Yes. Some characters in some of the minis had bits and pieces of memories from their past lives that didn't make any sense. Yinsen had nightmares about the incursion taking his world, Faiza had vague memories of Britain despite Britain not existing on battleworld.

>>88932193
Is this art from Infamous Iron Man. Is it worth reading and do I need to finish Secret Wars, or something else, before it?

>>88932485
Don't they create alternate universes now? Doesn't that mean they create versions of themselves sometimes, version of their enemies too. All other Doom were made by Reed and his family. Think about it.

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>>88932276
That's how I interpreted the top panel, although now that I think about it, Battleworld's Thor likely came from Ultimate Manhattan, and Ultimate Manhattan had Ultimate Cap, Ultimate Tony, and presumably had an Ultimate Wasp although she might still have died in the 8 years of BW.

>>88932320
>Isn't that why Miles is there and a couple of Gwens?
There's only one Gwen. Gwenpool. And she's a multiversal refugee, not a result of merged universes. Spider-gwen is from Earth-65 and just has a multiversal transporter that she uses to jump over to 616 every now and then. Gwenpool's Earth is "our" Earth.

>>88932408
>The got the old Tribunal's job
Nah, Adam Warlock for the old Tribunal's job. I guess the best description for Reed's current position is something like "Multiversal Architect." He has no say in how the multiverse is ran, but he's the one (re)creating all the new universes.

>>88932543
Didn't Ultimate Thor also house the entirety of all of Ultimate Asgard in and of himself? Must have some major bank behind it if and entire pantheon's power is squashed into it.

>>88932616
Ultimate Thor became Valhalla.

>>88932609
>Nah, Adam Warlock for the old Tribunal's job.

Whaaa... when did this happen?

What's the status of the various universes? If Spider-Gwen lives in 65 then have all the other besides the ultimate one been restored to their former selves? Sun-god must be pretty happy if that's the case.

>>88931706
I clearly missed that comic but wouldn't that imply that Odin had actually permanently banished Thor to be a self-hating cripple for the rest of his now mortal life in the fucking ORIGIN STORY?

>>88932520
No, that is secret wars.

minor spoilers
dooms face is fixed at the end of SW and he drops the mask. Infamous Iron Man is interesting, but also not exactly great. It's written by Bendis so that really shouldn't be a surprise

>>88932640
Infinity Entity, one of Starlin's OGNs. But nobody at Marvel seems to have read those, outside Ewing, so it's unlikely anybody will bring that up.

Also, it's a different Adam Warlock, 616-Warlock is still around and has no idea (unless Thanos told him).

>>88931706
then again, Aaron had the smart idea of playing it as a story told, not necessarily completely true(unreliable narrator and all), especially given Bill's Stormbreaker is as much as powerful as Mjollnir.

>>88930562
no, Thor always used lightning even without Mjollnir.
He just sucks at magic\god powers, and has much easier time using Mojllnir as focus

>>88932711
Odin honestly seem incompetent in newer comics, and the retcon aren't helping the matter.

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>>88932520
I think that is concept art for Infamous Iron Man.

All you really need to know from Secret Wars is that Doom became god, but found it unsatisfying. This is all spelled out in #3 of IIM. I've been liking it more than I expected to, so far.

>>88932711
I meant that when Thor was a young man centuries ago, Odin didn't want anyone to touch Mjolnir because he thought it was impossible to control it. Later Thor become capable of wielding it, and I guess Odin became fine with that and was proud of Thor.
As such, Odin fully expected Donald Blake to be able to wield Mjolnir.

>>88932795
Odin was never competent, the new comics simply make him even more of a dick.

>>88932735
Fucker is already dead in the new Ultimates, gets killed by Master Order and Chaos because he wouldn't change Galactus back into the World-devourer.

>>88932727
But Alex Maleev didn't do any art for Secret Wars...

>>88932248
Anything "made" by Doom seemed to be noticeably far weaker than any 616 survivor counterpart. It might not have been on purpose but that's what we got and one of the prime examples was how easily the Thors were being taken down or handled by people that should rightfully have trouble with 1 or 2 instead of dozens at once.

>>88932800
Okay, cool. I'm kind of fucked though, because I'm a big Doom fan but hadn't read any new Hickman runs, so I've been recommended Fantastic Four, FF, Avengers, New Avengers and then Secret Wars.

>>88932867
Yeah, that's why I find it odd that this hammer is supposed to be something magnitudes more powerful than anything in battleworld. The way the elder and Thanos want seem to indicate it's even more powerful than the OG hammer that Jane has right now,

>>88932616
Yes. Hickman really liked writing Thor now that I realize it, both Ultimate and 616 are among the only characters who are important in his respective runs.

>>88932835
>this nigga
Odin always had some keikaku for Thor and the general situation because of his all-seeing eye. He only didn't in very early, post-Lee/Kirby stories, but Thomas, Simonson, Jurgens, Straczinsky all wrote him as wise and competent most of the times. Exceptions might've been when he was somehow outmatched or in the first half of the '90s when he banished Thor and made Red Norvell Thor instead.
Then from Fraction on and especially under Aaron, all Asgardians became Conan-tier savage barbarians because le viking memes.

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How can I possibly trust Bendis with DOOM when he's wrote him like this before? He doesn't understand the character whatsoever.

>>88932965
Now Odin is the patricary incarnate.

>>88933022
Why are you bringing him up? Doom isn't involved in the current Unworthy Thor arc and had nothing to do with Secret Wars Doom or Thors, Bendis has nothing to do with this.

>>88932867
That is called running a story with a few pages. Actually Thor created by Doom are in all respects as powerful as the orignal, but even taking into account the individual hammer Ultimate Thor, I remind you that all the issue of the hammer made with technology human, was a deception of Loki in Season 2. Thor at the end of the story is confirmed as a God and his hammer authentic.

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>>88932893
You should read Hickman's FF run because it is awesome, but Doom doesn't really come into his Avengers work except for an issue near the end which shows Doom fighting the Beyonders.

>>88932838
He's ADAM WARLOCK, now with the power of the Living Tribunal.

How, exactly, is dead going to even just SLOW him?

>>88933049
I should've added post tags.

>>88932520
>>88932727
>>88932800

>>88933105
I dunno, perhaps it's a cosmic death. Writers will think of something.

>>88932912
I never read Thors besides 1 issues...i should have read more. But every hammer was made from a dying star and infused with Doom power. This is probably weaker than 616 version. But who knows, maybe it pulled all the powers together, we don't know yet but if this is all the doom hammers that would be awesome.

>>88933199
Most likely, next issue will show Tribunal Warlock telling Order&Chaos that, yes, the cosmic hierarchy is still being built, but his place on top of it is not up for discussion and schools them silly.

>>88932838
>cliffhanger """""death"""""

First time reading comics, huh?

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>>88933064
Do I need to read Fantastic Four and FF together to appreciate the story/run?

Also, I was told that it's necessary to read Avengers, New Avengers and Avengers: Time Runs Out before Secret Wars.

Do you think I could just read Hickman's Fantastic Four and then go straight to Secret Wars, if Doom isn't that involved in Avengers/New Avengers?

>>88933118
>add post tags
What the fuck does this mean? This isn't Reddit or Tumblr, what you mean is replying. How new are you? Lurk more instead of writing cancer like "post tags"

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>>88933287
>Do I need to read Fantastic Four and FF together to appreciate the story/run?
IIRC, FF was its own thing, but fun. The issue where Johnny forces Peter to party is in FF. In Fraction's run, they are completely separate storylines.

Most of Avengers and New Avengers is nonessential since they are fighting the inevitable for something like 2 years real time and don't win, merely survive.

>>88933287
Doom is very involved in Avengers/New Avengers, all hope lies in Doom.

>>88933243
>>88932912

Guy... the old Marvel Universe is dead. Even Beta Ray Bill use an hammer made by Doom.

>>88932965
Even when he made Red Thor, it was all according to keikaku. He wanted Red to die instead of his son.

>>88933484
Universe-8 is for all intents and purposes 616. Everything was recreated by Reed exactly the way it was, minus a few changes like Miles and company as a result of Molecule Man thanking Miles for his pocket pizza. This includes BRB's hammer.

>>88932638
That's a big Thor

>>88933610
Ultimates begs to differ. Some major cosmic changes are there.

>>88933484
>Yet Marvel fans insist there's never been a reboot. Fuck sakes it's exactly the same sort of reboot that DC does. There is shit from two universes ago flying around stll. Nu52 superman is dead and not fucking coming back and got replaced with old superman, how is this shit ANY different?

>>88933633
Yes, from a meta point of view we know that the multiverse effectively died and was remade and that's a thing that happened. The Ultimates are going to deal with that because even Secret Wars retconing itself into the multiverse never having ended left a scar and that is noticeable by some characters who have cosmic consciousness-like enhancements.
But for everyone else the world effectively never ended and stayed as it always was, safe for a couple of changes that editors were too lazy to precisely attribute to Molecule Man or T'challa going back with the gem

>>88933064
The biggest problem I had with Hickman's run was the one-upmanship bullshit he kept pulling.

>Annihilation Wave? Pfft. How about they build a BRAND NEW Annihilation Wave, twice as big as the old one, and have it right near Earth? And then Johnny solos the entire thing and becomes the ruler of the Wave because he has the Cosmic Control Rod.
>Another Galactus story? Why don't I kill him off and then have it turn out that he's only the herald of, get this, Franklin Richards!
>Reed starts questioning whether science is more important than family for the umpteenth time? Well THIS time it's because he runs into a cross-time council of Reeds who go through the multiverse and turn every universe into a utopia! And three of them have Infinity Gauntlets!

>>88933484
>>88933610
>>88933633
Marvel's cosmicology is a clusterfuck.

Somebody give the lay down for how it functions.

>>88933726
would have been fine if he was capable of actually finishing a story with all that buildup.

But ever one had terrible resolutions, and climaxes.

>>88931990
its so creepy seeing Ultimate Reed after the fact, especially all his moralizing that we now know he never really believed.

>>88933690
Because nothing actually changed except for some a few characters coming over and the cosmic things changing a bit. The same plot lines are in place, no one's origin (except maybe Miles) has changed at all, the character histories are still identical...

Unlike DC, whose Nu52 and Crisis reboots just erased the old universe entirely and replaced it with something similar, Marvel's 'reboot' ended up picking up right where it left off before the Secret Wars bullshit started.

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>>88933783
U Reed was a really cool guy before Ultimatum.

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>>88933690
>Nu52 superman is dead and not fucking coming back

Good one

>>88933690
It would've been pretty dine if some of the shit was done better. Like Miles, for example. Why the fuck is he Spider-Man, exactly? Why the fuck doesn't he remember events of the Secret Wars? I mean, they removed all of his motivation and history, no wonder he has a personality of a soggy cheese sandwich.

>>88933774
>Johnny Storm is DEAD FOREVER. He will NEVER come back.
>lol, jk, he's got the Annihilation Wave totally under control

etc. Yeah. Hickman's run really soured me on him as a writer. He kept coming up with all of these amazing ideas, but when it came time to execute, it was just a string of moments that were supposed to be epic and ended up falling flat because he mistook style for substance.

>>88933807
he was a sociopath who was only holding it to gether to get a hot blonde.

once she dropped him for a stupid reason he decided to drop the charade and go fucking insane.

>>88933610
>Everything was recreated by Reed exactly the way it was.

So it is perhaps wrong to think that Reed has standardized the three hammers (original, StormB. and Ultimate) to the same level of power for convenience? After all I do not think he had any idea of the mess of Ultimate Universe.

>>88933868
he didn't get to create or modify the U Hammer, it broke free from the Doom world.

>>88933401

I'm just going to read the original Secret Wars, then Hickman's Fantastic Four, then Avengers: Time Runs Out, then Secret Wars. Fuck everything else.

>>88933868
Ultimate was outside of Reed's control, that came directly from Planet Doom.

>>88933796
So it's just the degrees of change, the means to the end are more or less the same.
It's still a reboot, even if it's into a boringly simular dimension, which this one isn't, but that's just my opinion.

>>88933868
Not everything. Terrigen clouds weren't posion to mutants before he got involved. What if Reed is secretly racist against dirty muties?

>>88933858
Actually he went insane because the future version of the hot blonde told him to. And then I guess evolving for billions of years in the city destroyed what morality he used to have.

>>88933846
>Why the fuck doesn't he remember events of the Secret Wars?

This is the shit I hate. I assume they're doing a Flashpoint kind of thing where his memories faded over time but goddammit it sours the ending of Secret Wars where he's overjoyed to see his mom alive and well. Plus it would have made for an interesting motivation for being Spider-Man that he couldn't properly tell anyone without sounding crazy.

>>88933858
In true, it was made clear that "all Reeds" are set to become evil if there are no Susan, Grimm and Johnny to act as a deterrent.

Ultimaste Reed was unlucky because his Susan is a bitch then, and herself push him to become evil when she takes on the identity of "female Kang".

>>88933918
he didn't meet Future Sue (who is a reoccuring villian in multiple Earths, strangely) until after he made his Time Bubble City.

he went Crazy in the Ultimate Doom story and only doubled down since, now he's super old and ruthless as fuck.

man blew up washington DC for fun.

>>88933808
They really drove that home in the first few issues. Unless he's the Human Clark of Mystery and they were wrong when they decided he wasn't.

>>88933783
Unless I missed an issue post secret wars(I think I actually did) he kind of did believe it.
Pre secret wars he was prepping for the death of the multiverse to try and save everything.Post secret wars he's trying to save everything again in his own weird little way.
Ultimate Reed is always trying to save everyone still. The problem is he's more than willing to resort to villainy to do it.

>>88933946
which was a Bizarre story to begin with.

Ultimate Sue was such a bitch she left Reed to fuck around (litearlly) then began fucking Reed's best friend, and then had a kid with him.

well she doesn't exist anymore, but U Reed does, so I guess he's got the last laugh.

>>88933957
Nigga SuperLois died the same way and they're driving home that they have no idea how he "died," this is obviously a plot point that's going to be expanded on.

Still hoping mystery Clark is Superboy Prime

>>88934006
Not only that but he exists in slices in every universe, nigga's winning out

>>88933953
>he didn't meet Future Sue

Nope, he meet Future Sue just after the dump. This has been specified in Ultimtaes.

>>88933868
The hammer is not made by Reed, it flung through time and space to get to where it is now. It was made by Doom.

>>88933972
not really, he's a petty fuck, his entire motivation to make The City was to kill everyone he didn't like out of spite for rejecting him.

he doesn't want to save anyone but himself and make others suffer, as the Ultimate Doom story told us, he's literally the Ultimate Universe version of Doom.

because Doom in that universe was a fucking hero and died as one.

>>88931886
that was that got Tricked into sexing Hel?

>>88934035
>"Be Evil, Reed, then we can finally fuck"

I can see it now.

>>88934042
>because Doom in that universe was a fucking hero and died as one.

Never read Miles USM.

>>88934042
Wasn't U-Doom half a demon?

>>88934040
yes, but it was never specified that the Doom hammers are less powerful than the original. They could also be stronger, or just equal to the original.

The difference can also dependent, simply, by the user. I mean, I do not remember Thunderstrike powerful as the real Thor...

>>88933946
A different theory i've seen floated around is that since his father in 616 is the ONLY Nathaniel Richards that exists alive in the multiverse the rest of the Reeds don't form the same sort of family bonds.
Using Marvel Zombies as an example, Susan , Ben, and Johnny were still around but he still went insane since the children died.

>>88934128
ah yeah, you are right. It was Frankling who had speculated this. In fact U Reed parents were two assholes.

>>88934042
I want to know more about hero Doom, what should I read? Last time I remember UDoom showing up was the time Grimm splatted his head.

>>88934290
U Doom is worthless.

>>88933972
>Ultimate Reed is always trying to save everyone still. The problem is he's more than willing to resort to villainy to do it.

The problem with Ultimate Reed now, is that he act like a mustache twirling villan, with delusional speeches about how cool he is. I would prefer him returning to be more reasonable in his dialogues and schemes.

it is as if Marvel thought that if a character does not do stupid speeches, the reader can not understand if one is evil or not.

>>88934458
Eh, I'd give Ewing a pass since it seemed like more of a way to introduce the character and his relation to the current Marvel universe while not taking him seriously since New Avengers was a jokey book. The previews at the end of Ultimates^2 and that explanation of his slices across the multiverse showed that he has much bigger plans for him, I trust Ewing to not keep writing him as a mad scientist.

>>88933741
Universe has ended.
This is a new universe, and the cosmic rules are still being defined.

>>88933890
by the way, I don't remember: what did happen to Dazzler Thor's hammer?

>>88934616
Roberto suddenly being as scheme-y as he is rich and U Reed's cartoonish plans damaged my enjoyment of that book, and I've enjoyed almost everything else he has written in recent memory.

>>88934646

So a reboot?

>>88934696

How many fucking hammers are in the universe by now?

>>88934846
The "new" universe is so similar to the old on that it is practically identical.

>>88934846
>So a reboot?
cosmically\in-universe speaking, yes.
meta-narrative speaking, no.

>>88934846
>How many fucking hammers are in the universe by now?
Mjollnir, Stormbreaker and Lightbringer(Dazzler's)

>>88930044
Every time anyone says this it's always about Marvel.

>>88934946
>Lightbringer

Whoa, Wut? I missed this.

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>>88935303

>>88929990
Doom was the god king of all creation. I don't think it's unreasonable his creations would be more powerful than Zeus's.

>>88933484
>Even Beta Ray Bill use an hammer made by Doom.
No he fucking doesn't

>>88936073
>Zeus's.

>>88936395
I think that no writers cares about this level power issue. The Hammer only serves to make true Thor pass his depression until the authentic hammer return to him. Jane, if not dead ( ah ) will after take the Ultimate Hammer.

Strong or weak, the ultimate Hammer will be as powerful as they need. With it, Thor will BTFO the Collector.