>Occupy Avengers and World of Wakanda being DOA doesn't

Sauce on the numbers?

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>>88647693
>Bendis suffering from his own over saturation
Glorious

if that's true can you imagine how many free issues marvel will send out? they'll fill the whole fucking lcs!

>>88647693
Was Civil War 2 so terrible that it destroyed several comics in it's wake?

>>88648071
Ask Kamalafags

>>88647836
This. Where's the source OP?

>>88647693
That's just at one store though

>>88647836
>>88648394
Op got it from Ryan Higgins' twitter. I'm still waiting to see what other retailers are saying through Bleeding Cool or other Tweets.

>>88648465
>Ryan Higgins
I love this guy.

>>88648071
Honestly, yes. People know a fake attention grab when they see it.

>>88647693
>Invincible Iron Man #2 flopping was somewhat surprising
Yeah right, since Marvel announced Riri and made fans go apeshit it was only reasonable for the new volume to flop (I'm kinda glad it did)

>>88647693
>Invincible Iron Man #2 flopping was somewhat surprising.

Oh, GOD, it so was not.

Bendis has accomplished the imppossible: he has made me think back to the days of Fraction with less than perfect hatred and loathing.

For everything that he did wrong, at least Fraction made me feel something. Granted, usually it was fury, loathing and despair, but I'll still take that over feeling NOTHING - over feeling as if I am already DEAD and in a coffin.

>>88649743
Don't pretend like you give a single fuck about Iron Man.

>>88649743
>>88649796
>tfw i actually got into iron man during fraction's run and currently enjoy it

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>>88647940
Oh wow. Talk about a fuck-up.

>>88649796

Fan for most of my life, anon. So you can understand these last few years were not conducive to my happiness.

But I am too stubborn and autistic to quit.

>>88649819

You currently enjoy his run or enjoy what's going on in the comic right now?

The first half or third of Fraction's run is not bad. But after "Disassembled" things go south rapidly.

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WHAT, you mean you are not TOTALLY invested in the character of Riri Williams?!?!?!?!?1/

>>88649819
Same.
Larocca still sucked ass, though.

Was Iron Man some kind of hot seller before all this? I don't remember Iron Man ever being a big seller

Can't tell if this is bad or fairly average

>Bendis flopping
>Slott flopping
>Champions dropping 80% at issue 2
>RYV outselling Clone conspiracy
will Marvel finally get the hint?

So then. how long before Tony is back? I'm guessing this disaster will mean a resurrection before schedule

Bets on the method they bring him back?

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>>88649819
>tfw my first X-Men comic was by Chuck Austen
>mfw it was partially responsible for getting me into comics
I only read an isolated issue here and there, and I was around 10 or so, so there's no real accounting for taste.
But shit, after reading more of his run I'm still fucking stunned by the way that run went.

>>88649885

I am more curious about what's going to happen to her. For whatever reason, Bendis seems to be riding high at Marvel now, and he won't let anyone fuck with his Mary Sue.

Little side note: this is Sabrina, BMB's adopted daughter.

You know, when Jeph Loeb's son died and he basically went mad with grief and kept trying to bring him back to life in comics like he was Grant Morrison or something, that was a father who had lost his child.

But this? What do we call this?

You know what I would like at this point? How low I have sunk? John Byrne writing a story about Riri.

>>88649954
As far as I can tell, Iron Man's never been a huge seller, but the MCU has given him a bit of a bump. I personally think Bendis trying to ape Robert Downey Jr. was always going to fail, because it's damn hard to distill any of that charisma onto the page and have it read well.
Could be that the guy was surprised by the sheer size of the drop though.

>>88650009

Oh, he's not dead. He's in a coma while his cybernetic body heals itself.

I am not just saying that, Newsarama had the early scoop on CW #8.

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>>88650074

Fuck. Forgot photo.

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As I was looking I also found this pic.

>>88650009
>Bets on the method they bring him back?
Easy, he downloads his consciousness on one of his suits and is now a literal machine
A literal IRON MAN if you will
BRAVO BENDIS

>>88650115
Holy shit she's ugly

>>88649796
Don't pretend you didn't start reading comics until 2010

>>88650139

>A literal IRON MAN if you will

Iron Man?

>>88650137
>Brubaker
>anywhere near as bad as Bendis
I mean, he's had some missteps but he's nowhere near Bendis tier.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure anybody at that table is nearly as bad. Someone photoshop Slott in and then we're talking.
Also, has Gage done anything catastrophically bad? I feel like his worst stuff was all a result of Slott's shit, and his other stuff ranges from good to just kinda there.

>>88650057
chuck austen's run was
B A D
A
D

>>88650187
Yes, Iron Man
as in, a Man, made of Iron
a man of iron
Iron Man

>>88650074
Loeb's shit was annoying but justifiable. Bendis is just an attention whore.

>>88650197
You don't need to tell me man, I read the Draco on /co/. Austen's run is so bad it actually boggles the mind that he got away with it.

>>88650212
Huh. An Iron Man.

>>88647693
>Marvel finally fires Bendis after he does something on the level of HydraCap with Spencer.
>DC won't hire him because they know he's a hack.
>IDW doesn't want him shitting up their licensed IPs
>Has to rely on his own ideas if he gets picked up by Image.
>Realizes that pandering to minorities gets you nowhere in an industry that's dying, regardless.

>His last words are in a farewell note that takes 20+ pages of repetition, casual chatter, and hello fellow kids-tier lingo.

>>88650215
How in the world was all the cannibalism justifiable?

>>88650139
>Holy shit she's ugly

No, she's normal.

But she's gonna get hatemail once other people figure it out. I wonder if Bendis showed her what he did, and whether she really thinks it's so great.

>>88650195

To be honest I was so overwhelmed by the sight of Bendis and Fraction in the same shot I didn't pay the others much mind. Tieri and Kavanagh would have been nice to have in there, but Kavanagh doesn't do comics anymore.

>>88650212

Iron? The metal? Or, like, I don't know, the utensil? Or is he, like an athlete?

>>88650291
I think he meant making Sam Nova was justifiable.
Ultimatum is an entire different level of stupid.

>>88650343
I'm okay with the grieving his son stuff, but man, Ultimatum is horrifyingly bad. And wrecked USM, which was the only U title I actually loved.

>>88650291

Look. The Blob eating human flesh was grotesque and disgusting, but not improper in the context of the darker, edgier Ultimate X-men.
And the Hulk eating people seemed pretty logical (and that wasn't Loeb anyway, I think).

>>88650343

Oh, God, yes.
How come nobody told him 'Sam would not have wanted this'?

>>88650370
>And the Hulk eating people seemed pretty logical (and that wasn't Loeb anyway, I think).

Yeah, that was Millar.

Actually you know what, I think all the stuff Loeb did is likely him reading Millar's comics and interviews and thinking "well, this is what they want, I'll give it to them."

>>88650370
I mean, cannibal Blob does make some sense. It made sense in Age of Apocalypse.
But Ultimate Blob was a pretty nice guy. Him and Pyro had both left Magneto and done their best to be heroic. Then Loeb made Blob a cannibal and Pyro a flame-rapist. And he made Mastermind not dead again.

>>88650291
It wasn't good, but he was grieving from a dead son. Honestly he shouldn't have been working in that period, because he clearly couldn't do it.

The stuff with Sam is just kind of pitiable.

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>>88649954
He wasn't. He had solid B-List sales. Here is a comparission for early issues of, in order: Fraction's run, Gillen's run, Superior Iron Man and Bendis' run. As you see, after first issue Bendis' Iron Man dropped back to the same numbers as Gillen's and Fraction's. And since Marvel wants Tony to be a top-seller they've tried the same tactic as with Spider-Man and Thor who also had too weak sales and got back when Superior andJane Foster happened (although I think Secret Wars fucked Jane's book so badly it dropped to the level of old Thor books). And they were so desperate they pulled out both "hero gets replaced by a woman" and "hero gets replaced by a villain" cards at once.

>>88650074
I can kind of respect the man wanting to create a hero for his adopted daughter to look up to, and with another writer I might even enjoy it. But fuck me, Bendis is so bad that there was no chance of it turning out good.

>>88650137
>Gage
>Bad
Anon,are you Dennis Hopeless?

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>>88647693
I'm literally putting this up because fuck it

This is the Riri Williams we deserve

From the 5 issue series, Genius tells the story of a gifted girl name Destiny Ajaye from Los Angeles going to war against the LAPD and the system as she seeks to become kingpin

This was a good series and I enjoyed it. Especially the character. Destiny is an extremely smart and intelligent girl, but she's also the most flawed. She has charm and wit, but she also focused and serious. She wants to do good, but she's positioned in a gray area

Imagine this kind of girl having it here, but she founds plans of the armor and builds her own version of it and goes to war with her gang, Tony intervenes and finds her. Only to be impressed by Destiny's intelligence that he considers her to be his equal. Trying to talk her down and reach out to her, but Destiny hesitates as she's not fully convinced and threatened to kill him. Until Tony lets his guard down and made her choose, which Destiny didn't kill him and decides to go along with it. The two eventually talk and Tony offers Destiny a position in his company and would agree to mentor her, by which she would think about it

What I'm thinking here in this version is that Destiny is Tony's equal, but she's born and raised in a tough neighborhood. She wants to go to war, but only to protect her neighborhood and the people in it. Destiny is a very gray individual that wants to do good but she can't as she was never given the opportunity to do so. Until Tony arrives and wants to help her. The two bonded and they develop a mentor-student relationship, and later evolves into a kind of father-daughter relationship. Destiny even helps redesign Tony's armor (which he currently wore). And when he does die Tony would entrust her with his armors as she's fully prepared to do good by him

She would have to be introduced much earlier, like pre-Civil War 2 event, and you would have to build her up good

Read the book and see

>>88652627
damn, no one is promoting your book so you gotta come to /co/? lol

>>88649743
Oh hi anon I saw your post in the storytime thread for #2

>>88650137
>616 KB jpg
>616
Hory shit

>>88650139
Most kids are ugly during middle school

>>88650749
>although I think Secret Wars fucked Jane's book so badly it dropped to the level of old Thor books
Or maybe people stopped caring once her identity was revealed.

>>88650416
Pyro was the one that upset me the most since he was literally a member of the X-Men and wasn't even a member of the brotherhood before ultimatum. Loeb turned him from a likable hero to rapist villain just to kill him off in the same issue he was suddenly a villain rapist. I don't think I'll ever stop being mad about it.

>>88650159
I started reading comics in '91. To me, Iron Man was "that villain from The Crossing that was a teenager during Onslaught Saga."

>>88650074
She'll be the protagonist of the ongoing until the next relaunch, when Tony will get brought back and then she'll spin-off into her own self-titled book.

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>>88647693
Who would had honestly thought that replacing a well known character on an unpopular book with some shitface kid on an unpopular book wouldn't sell? Truly it is a shocker!!!

>>88650524
It was a bad way of dealing with it, too. Some sort of memorial, sure. But he clearly needed professional help, and he wasn't getting it. It was unhealthy.

>>88650197
Squid Boy was good

>>88653263
>Or maybe people stopped caring once her identity was revealed.

You'd think that but it was clear it was affecting a lot of other books, too. There were articles noting the All-New All-Different launch during and post-Secret Wars dropped to numbers prior to the relaunches.

>>88652627

Never heard of this, but i'm intrigued.

>>88647836
Common sense based on recent data sourced from actual retailers.

>>88650074
Who was the (I wanna say) Superman writer whose son died and a bunch of other writers got together and made an issue for him? I seem to remember reading it had something to do with Smallville which was still airing at the time.

>>88647693
Please tell me "Occupy Avengers" is not the real name of a comic book.

Culturally Enriched Great Lakes Avengers when?

>>88650749
>Superior Iron Man was the lowest selling
>didn´t even had a issue #1 boost
you niggas had a good thing and you let it go to waste

>>88657222
That was Loeb. It was the final DC issue he did (with collaborators) before going on with his Marvel exclusive.

>>88647996
I don't understand how giving away free issues will look good for sales numbers. It seems like it might be good for marketing the book but not something to inflate the numbers

who will get to take RiRi's virginity? I hope it's Scott Lang or Jack of Hearts comes back and woos her with poetry until she lets him come on her back

>>88657269
The sad thing is it's a good book that is completely unlike the title of advertising make it out to be. Another example of editorial mandates fucking things up.

Stop reading marvel.

>>88657670
No

>>88650222
It's literally better than Bendis. At least stuff happened. Threats weren't medicore shit was dumb but it was serious in a hilariously stupid way.

Also, after a while Austen got blacklisted. For a bit he skyrocketed numbers but everything was too insane and dumb so it went down.

Though, fans were so diehard about it they still bought it. Which as much as I'd wager X-men is my favorite franchise, supporting trash is such a terrible move. These last five years have been so awful any other run would have gotten sacked by fans. X-fans will buy so much shit though, it's not even funny. It's actually pretty sad.

>>88657562
Miles will.

>>88647693
Even the last Iron man relaunch by Bendis dropped by more than 60%, so it's not at all surprising.

>>88657737
>X-fans will buy so much shit though, it's not even funny. It's actually pretty sad.


Are you really sure about that?

02/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #1 - 177,463 (+169.0%)
02/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #2 - 94,615 ( -46.7%)
03/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #3 - 85,775 ( -9.3%)
04/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #4 - 80,047 ( -6.7%)
04/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #5 - 78,919 ( -1.4%)
05/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #6 - 73,621 ( -6.7%)
06/13 Uncanny X-Men v3 #7 - 73,719 ( +0.1%)

01/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #30 - 48,824 (-8.7%)
02/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #31 - 46,993 (-3.8%)
03/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #32 - 49,639 (+5.6%)
04/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #33 - 49,278 (-0.7%)
05/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #34 - 45,267 (-8.1%)
07/15 Uncanny X-Men v3 #35 - 48,094 (+6.2%)
11/15 Uncanny X-Men #600 - 126,447 (+162.9%)

01/16- Uncanny X-Men #1 - 93,252
01/16 Uncanny X-Men #2 - 55,804 (-40.2%)
02/16 Uncanny X-Men #3 - 50,382 (- 9.7%)
03/16 Uncanny X-Men #4 - 46,105 (- 8.5%)
03/16 Uncanny X-Men #5 - 45,887 (- 0.5%)
04/16 Uncanny X-Men #6 - 57,434 (+25.1%) (Apocalypse War)
05/16 Uncanny X-Men #7 - 50,936 (-11.3%) (Apocalypse War)
06/16 Uncanny X-Men #8 - 45,409 (-10.9%) (Apocalypse War)
06/16 Uncanny X-Men #9 - 44,617 (- 1.7%) (Apocalypse War)
07/16 Uncanny X-Men #10- 48,025 (+ 7.6%) (Apocalypse War)
08/16 Uncanny X-Men #11- 42,779 (-10.9%)
09/16 Uncanny X-Men #12- 42,748 (- 0.1%)
09/16 Uncanny X-Men #13- 39,825 (- 6.8%)
10/16 Uncanny X-Men #14- 38,685 (- 2.9%)
11/16 Uncanny X-Men #15- 36,946 (- 4.5%)

>>88658509
And to compare, here's sales from 2005/2006:

Jun 05 Uncanny X-Men #460 – 82,457 ( -1.3%)
Jun 05 Uncanny X-Men #461 – 91,221 (+10.6%)
Jul 05 Uncanny X-Men #462 – 91,125 ( -0.1%)
Aug 05 Uncanny X-Men #463 – 87,610 ( -3.9%)
Sep 05 Uncanny X-Men #464 – 85,885 ( -2.0%)
Oct 05 Uncanny X-Men #465 – 84,271 ( -1.9%)
Nov 05 Uncanny X-Men #466 – 82,825 ( -1.7%)
Dec 05 Uncanny X-Men #467 – 81,282 ( -1.9%)
Jan 06 Uncanny X-Men #468 – 79,808 ( -1.8%)
Feb 06 Uncanny X-Men #469 – 79,039 ( -1.0%)
Mar 06 Uncanny X-Men #470 – 79,389 ( +0.4%)
Mar 06 Uncanny X-Men #471 – 78,286 ( -1.4%)
Apr 06 Uncanny X-Men #472 – 79,157 ( +1.1%)
May 06 Uncanny X-Men #473 – 79,335 ( +0.2%)
Jun 06 Uncanny X-Men #474 – 78,140 ( -1.5%)

Sales of Uncanny from 2009/2010:

09/09 #515 - 73,585 (-18.5%)
10/09 #516 - 73,916 ( +0.4%)
11/09 #517 - 69,557 ( -5.9%)
12/09 #518 - 68,572 ( -1.4%)
12/09 #519 - 67,043 ( -2.2%)
01/10 #520 - 65,758 ( -1.9%)
02/10 #521 - 67,049 ( +2.0%)
03/10 #522 - 67,996 ( +1.4%)
04/10 #523 - 78,999 (+16.2%)
05/10 #524 - 77,056 ( -2.5%)
06/10 #525 - 76,068 ( -1.3%)
07/10 #526 - 66,723 (-12.3%)
08/10 #527 - 69,052 ( +3.5%)
09/10 #528 - 62,415 ( -9.6%)

>>88653349
The worst part is that Loeb knew that he was a hero, before Pyro dies he tries to say that he's actually a good guy.

I like how Riri is a shitty African American replacement character JUST LIKE MILES. And just like Miles, nobody really gives a shit about her. The difference is that you'll always sell at least a decent amount of books as long as they have the Spider-Man name. You don't get that auto-buy with Iron Man.

>>88650749
>I think Secret Wars fucked Jane's book so badly it dropped to the level of old Thor books)

Ms Marvel has been hit worse.
The relaunches and events knocked her book off the top 100 sales list and has cancellation numbers. If she wasn't cute, inhuman, and Muslim (and pushed hard), her book would be as dead as Solo.

>>88658824
The secret wars tie in was really good, and felt like an actual end to the book. But the end came too soon and made the next issues irrelevant.

So basically between Secret Wars and Civil Wars 2, Marvel's books that were actually popular got completely fucked?

>>88658659
How long until they start hooking up Riri and Miles?

Honestly, that would be the only "Because They're Black" relationship that I'd be okay with, as Miles has no personality to speak of and Riri is going to be forgotten within ten years.

>>88659096
Pretty sure that any book that was cancelled and/or rebooted got fucked.

I'd love to see some kind of chart that details the lifespan of Marvel's books from the beginning of the company to today, and see just what the longest-lasting titles are.

Because I can tell you without looking that it's not any of the books from the past five years of Marvel.

>>88658509
They're getting better but these numbers are still too fucking good.

>>88659858
I would never have imagined in the last 20 or so years that fucking Uncanny would end up in the 30,000's. That's fucking terrible performance.

>>88659096
Ultimates took a hit across the nose but New Avengers shrugged it off and is going strong into USAvengers

>>88659925
I suppose. I wonder how marvel feels? I mean Inhumans will never ever fill that gap. That's essentially millions of dollars they've lost over the years.

>>88660011
It was some real vastly stupid decision making to diminish the X-Men comics while trying too hard to push Inhumans (to the point where fans turned away against Inhumans comics). I know it's all about the film rights, but that's a huge fucking cutting-nose-off-to-spite-your-face deal they did here.

>>88659925
>I will finally witness X-books getting cancelled for low sales in my lifetime.

Iron Man hasnt been good since the Knaufs.

>>88660252
yeah, that was a great run. I hear it's getting a Complete Collection treatment.

>>88660252
>>88660252
I've heard good things about Fraction's run. Is that any good?

Marvel can´t be shut-down soon enough

>>88660500
Never gonna happen.
They've got Disney money behind them now, so it'll always exist as an IP/movie script factory.

>>88660396
Those were lies. Dumb people shouldn't write smart people.

>>88648098
Kamala was under selling way before cw2. Her second volume was lower than the first in floppies digital and trade. Keep in mind how hard she is being pushed right now.

>>88657737
There is some truth in that. My sister has been an xfag for as long as I could remember. She has defended house of m and the o5 being in the current timeline. The only things she hasn't defended is the current shit with the stupid peanut cloud and Bobby going full gay.

>>88647693

I'm not surprised. /co/ throws around the term "Mary Sue" a lot but Riri really seems to be a genuine case.

>>88650008

Champions #1 was inflated by scholastic prepurchasing it

>>88661093
It's not just Scholastic purchasing it, it was also included in like three different subscription boxes.

>>88661093
>>88661365
Not to mention a dozen variant covers, and even more store-exclusive ones on top of that.

>>88661699
Those too. But I mention just the subscription boxes since that certainly had to be a factor for Sorcerers Supreme ranking high on the charts October and then having a major dip November.

>>88658824
>The relaunches and events knocked her book off the top 100 sales list
Why is everyone acting like this is something new?

>>88659402
>How long until they start hooking up Riri and Miles?
When Bendis finishes stealing Spider-Gwen's "popularity" and giving it to Miles.

>>88647693
How is that any surprising? I don't understand.
What, did you expect people would really like this piece of crap?

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>>88653263
>>88657035
>>88658824
All-New Marvel restart hit many books where they would have solid #1 and then drop back to the old numbers or close, as if restart didn't happen. The only exceptions (at least back when someone made this table) are Daredevil, Spider-Man 2099 and Uncanny Avengers. The list excludes UXM and Deadpool, since they had anniversary issues right before Secret Wars.

Common argument why it happened is that most of the books just picked up where they were before Secret Wars with little or cosmetical changes, only Iron Man, Daredevil and New Avengers doing something different from before (and In Iron Man's case it was return to status quo after Superior).

Thor got hit really badly, since it more or less undo eerything they managed to accomplish. Thor: God of Thunder had okay sales but Jane's book outsould it greatly and was always in top 10 except for month where Star Wars and Darth Vader and Spider-Gwen ha their #1s. In span of 6 issues before the mandatory restart it lost less customers than God of Thunder between issues#1 and #2. But I've checked once sales and after Secret Wars the book dropped to where GoT was.

>>88657438
I think it might be that Iron Man has "She-Hulk problem" only worse. Remember when Peter David took over She-Hulk from Slott and drastically changed the direction? And the book flopped? He'd rather say he feels that people who buy her book have a very specific idea what they want from it and won't buy anything that deviates from it. Superior might have had a similiar problem - core Iron Man fanbase wasn't interested. This is actually a bad deal for Stark now - Marvel wants him to be in top 10 but he has just a core fanbase that stays consistent as long as he stays the same. They cannot push him into A-List without shaking things up like they did now. But when they do that, his core fanbase leaves and they're big enough to nullify any boost from new readers. I doubt they're buying either Riri or Doom's books. This is opposed to Spidey or Thor who have a fanbase infamous that they're going to buy the book even f they hate the direction, so when Superior and Jante happened, they stick around and new fans boosted the sales. Which would explains why post-Secret Wars Thor went back to pre-Jane sales as shown here >>88662281
. New readers abbandonned it and people who will buy Thor no matter what stayed. That I'd say, if Unworthy Thor didn't turn into stealth mini, this one still baffles me.

>losing money

Those numbers are nothing to Disney, in fact, using current comics as experiments and measuring the public responses from these things they are doing and also people talking about it, the polemics and shit is more lucrative than any other "study". Even if everything sold as solid as uncanny and spider a few years ago it would be such a small income to Disney that it won't matter in the end. That's why they don't care as long as they are getting information about what to do right where it really matters (toys, MCU, TV, games).

Didn't you guys noticed how Bendisverse and his influence ain't moving shit on MCU or TV shows? Or how Capitain America is still a sexists boy who saves black widow and she thanks her even if she had some action too? I mean, MCU is so close to the original source that everyone loves it and the family tone and a few casts of color was more to enough to buy even the sjw people and everyone's having fun and the money is flowing. Comics is just a laboratory now, they will try crazy shit until they find something new to bring to where it matters and use it as advertising, that's all that's left for comics.


On the other part, DC and Warner are so small in comparison to the mouse that it's not even funny and with DCU going into shit thsnks to Snyder at least their comics will stay relevant and important, unlike Marvel's

>>88662418
>and a few casts of color was more to enough to buy even the sjw people
As one of those sjw people, I eed to say this is a lie. Neither me or any other people you'd probably call sjw are happy about MCU and it's whiteness.

>>88652627
Meanwhile Bendis wrote Scarlet, which is:
>kill all the cops, right fucking now, kill them, kill them all

>>88660597
they can shut down Marvel and still keep the copyrights

>>88662484

It's a good thing nobody cares what you want then.

>>88662536
I just wanted to make things clear because claiming MCU is so perfect even "sjws" love it is simply not true.

>>88662484

The biggest demographic in the world right now is the 19-49 white woman, and marvel is doing so well with it. Also, even if for a lesser degree, minority woman will buy anything white woman like too even if they dislike it somehow since we'll, in the end, they still want the same shit

>>88662484
>unironically calling himself an SJW
Please kys.

Also they raceswapped Heimdall, Ben Urich, Nick Fury, Baron Mordo, Liz Allan, Ned Leeds, Flash Thompson, Elektra and they chopped the dicks of Hogarth and the Ancient One and you're still unhappy?
Fucking kys.

>>88662595
Well, Ned Leeds is really Ganke. They are using Leeds as a fuck you to deny Bendis his commission

>>88650935
Gage did write the fucking awful final issue of superior spider-man where green goblin jogs away from spider-man 2099 in broad daylight and somehow gets away

>>88662565

SJW's don't love anything though. Nothing is ever good enough for you people and it's why you should never be pandered to

>>88662595
I could pull out a lit of things MCU did wrong, but I didn't came here to start shit, that's debate for...wanted to say other day but remembered where I am. Anyway, I only really brought it up because thinking what MCU is doing actually appeals to us is simply a misconception.

>>88662628
Then >>88662418 should have say "and sjws don't matter" instead of deluding himself. Let's not spread misconceptions, okay?

>>88650291
grief.

>>88662628
They'll always have something to complain about.
Even if Marlel changes every hero into a racemixed transgendered faggot, they'll still be unhappy and start complaining about the lack of amputee superheroes.

>>88662281
Using the word "costumers" while talking about sales numbers shows that you have no idea about the topic in question.

>>88652627
you sold me, I'll try it.

>>88662680
English ain't my first language.

>>88662706
I highly doubt that has anything to do with it.

>>88649841
shit man iron man's comic hasn't been good since like what the director of shield stuff by the knaufs?

that was 10 fuckin years ago

>>88662730
You think he meant that diamond sales reflect issues sold to stores, not the actual issues sold to people?

>>88662777
I think he meant the exact opposite.

>>88662767
Characterfags aren't called battered wives for no reason, anon.

>>88662788
...Okay, now I'm lost, could you explain?

>>88662794
i just can't wrap my mind around putting up with fraction, gillen AND bendis for iron man of all characters

>>88662767
oh wait superior iron man was alright

>>88662834
Everyone has their favorites, it's not ours to judge.
>>88662840
>he had to stop being Tony Stark to be interesting

>>88662802
What you (at least, I assume it was you) said >>88662777 here is right: Diamond numbers show how many copies of each issue Diamond distributed to various stores etc, as well as the lootcrates and whatnot, since, because of the direct market, that's the only number the publishers care about. It's completely irrelevant to the actual number of copies sold to readers.
By saying that, based on the numbers, something is losing "customers" implies that the other anon thinks that the numbers are in any way connected to the number of copies sold, which is flat out wrong, and hiding behind "English not being his first language" wouldn't explain it, because he still used a word describing people instead of one describing things.
Especially since he focuses on the drop between #1 and #2 of God of Thunder - and as anyone who knows anything about the topic will tell you, those numbers are completely unreliable, since the stores don't usually have time to gauge the actual interest in the book before the final order cut-off (I just checked the last two solicitation lists - Bullseye #1 comes out on February 1st, and the FOC for Bullseye #2, coming out March 1st, is on February 6th). The orders on the first couple of issues are ALWAYS guesstimates, and basing any research on them, like the same guy did up top in this post: >>88650749
won't give you any reliable information.
Much less in the case of GoT, since the first issues were double-shipping, meaning you had to order #2 before #1 even came out.
The conclusion is simple - the other anon is talking out of his ass.

>>88662959
>Especially since he focuses on the drop between #1 and #2 of God of Thunder - and as anyone who knows anything about the topic will tell you, those numbers are completely unreliable, since the stores don't usually have time to gauge the actual interest in the book before the final order cut-off (I just checked the last two solicitation lists - Bullseye #1 comes out on February 1st, and the FOC for Bullseye #2, coming out March 1st, is on February 6th). The orders on the first couple of issues are ALWAYS guesstimates, and basing any research on them, like the same guy did up top in this post: >>88650749
>won't give you any reliable information.
>Much less in the case of GoT, since the first issues were double-shipping, meaning you had to order #2 before #1 even came out.
>The conclusion is simple - the other anon is talking out of his ass.
Would that mean that Jane's first book outsold GoT at least partially because of being a monthly series?

>>88662498
Bendis will ruin her the moment he writes her

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>>88662959
Okay then, what would you make out of this chart?

>>88662690
Let me know what you think

>>88663102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8oAQOvOEXY

>>88663102
vol. 4 is Whor and Mighty Thor is her book after that?

>>88649796

someone obviously does, the book is selling near half of what it was selling before.

>>88662659
>Thinking you literal faggots actually matter
You'll be the first against the wall, cuck king

>>88663304
Yes.Thor vol.4 is her first book, Mighty Thor is her All-New Marvel book.

>>88650416
>But Ultimate Blob was a pretty nice guy. Him and Pyro had both left Magneto and done their best to be heroic.

See, now, I did not know that about Blob.

>>88657269

It is and I think it's a good idea... so Marvel will probably fuck it up in the execution.

>>88657562

Lunella Lafayette.

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>>88660396

The first two or three arcs are readible. Drop it after that unless you are a masochist.

>>88662767

I kind of liked Kieron Gillen's stuff, although he failed to deliver what I kind of hoped. Superior Iron Man was pretty good. Anything else...

Well maybe if Riri wasn't just a sexier Moon girl

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>>88663390

I already won't buy anything with Bendis' name on it. I wish there was some other way to show Marvel he's shit.

>>88650267
I could see Archie hiring him in that case for their main Archie line.

>>88647693
>First few days of sale put it at around 35% of sales of Infamous Iron Man.

Because people want to read about Doctor Doom more than some rando chick. If you want to put a woman in the Iron Man suit, you have people out there already to choose from who have enough name recognition and fans to at least get some of them picking the book up out of interest.

>>88662626
Yeah but usually when he works on Spider-Man he has to go by Slott's stuff since he usually steps in to co-write.

>>88649743
>Fraction IIM
>bad
Stark Disassembled went on too long, but his run was very good.

>>88667009
Infamous Iron Man is painfully bland too

>>88668343
>his run was very good
You fapped to Tony kissing Ock's tentacles?

>>88648071
Gee Marvel, it's almost like rushing out an event to catch the hype after a film comes out is a bad thing!

>>88650074
Bendis is even more transparent. He created Riri just so he can go "Hey, RDJ is retiring. Riri Williams should replace him!" And then he gets all the royalties. I mean, it's not like he could have used Lila Rhodes, after he killed Rhodey to become the new Iron Man. No, it's just this random girl who is a super genius.

>>88647693
We lived long enough to see the Bendis bubble pop.

Here's what Marvel doesn't get.
>>Here's Riri Willaims. She's smarter than Iron Man.
>>Here's Moon Girl, she's the smartest Marvel character.

They think that claiming smarter = better will make people like these characters. People don't like Reed, Doom, Cho and Stark just because they are smart. They like them because there's an edge to them. Reed is always so focus on work that he forgets the needs of those around him. Doom is smart but also a fucking villain. Cho is smart, but he's an asshole about it so people have their right to dislike him in the story.

Riri literally gets the adoration of everyone else. Moon Girl is a straight up asshole who groans whenever people aren't as smart as her and we're supposed to sympathize with "Why aren't people as smart as me?"

>>88669517
>we're supposed to sympathize with "Why aren't people as smart as me?"
No, you're not getting Moon Girl. She's a little girl, she groans whenever people aren't as smart as her because she's little and flawed! Of course that's a bad thing, heroes are not supposed to scream at every person they talk to. Lunella is a little girl the story is about how she grows up and understands how to talk to people. She has a enormous communication problem.
Making her the smartest one there is (mathematically speaking) is part of her character arc: she never had any friends, nobody understood her, EVER. Her own parents ignore her. And now, suddenly, this announcement makes her the center of the scientific community. For the first time in her life people who can actually understand her are coming into her life, and now she'll start to understand that she's flawed as well: that she's a little bitch. She's a great character.
It's worth mentioning that she wasn't sold as the smartest character in the world since her book started, they waited 12 issues to do it so it could mean something to the character arc. Riri is an example of a bad smart girl.

>>88657552
For some people the appearance of success is more important than actual success.

>>88657552
Of course it's to generate new readers for the books. /Co/ is autistic and believes normal people care about sales numbers.

>>88669755
That sounds like damage control

>>88669772
It is, the books didnt sold very well, so they gave free copies to catch readers. I don't know why it is seen as something "evil" and "amoral":

>>88657552
It makes them look like they're more successful than they are, which is a big part of Marvel's strategy. Marvel's done a lot to position themselves as market leaders in comics, even though it's through artificial means (variants, giveaways, etc.) That status means that more people will invest in their movies , merch, and licences, since they see Marvel as a successful venture.v

>>88669828
>That status means that more people will invest in their movies , merch, and licences
Get this in you head: nobody cares about the comics. Marvel studios is the most successful movie franchise in the world, people care about THAT.

>>88669821
>I don't know why it is seen as something "evil" and "amoral":
Because the retailers will still have to pay for shipping of comics that they don't want and can't sell, and they will just take up space in the stores.

>>88669895
>will still have to pay for shipping of comics that they don't want
I'm not from america, how does this work?

>>88657552
It's like what >>88669714 said. But here's an example.

These were the following article titles when the October sales charts were released:

>Marvel Are CHAMPIONS Again on October 2016 Comic Book Sales Charts

>Marvel Back On Top In Diamond's October Sales

>Marvel’s “Champions” helps it top October 2016 comics sales

So what was in October's sales charts? The launch of Champions #1 and Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme #1. But what happened in November?

10/16 Champions #1 - 334,937 [+6,772]
11/16 Champions #2 - 49,733 (-85.2%)

10/16 Dr Strange Sorcerers Supreme #1 - 149,710
11/16 Dr Strange Sorcerers Supreme #2 - 29,349 (-80.4%)

But the November sales charts news had articles like the following:

>Marvel Dominates DC Comics In November 2016 Marketshare – Normal Service Resumed?

>Top Ten Comic Books For November 2016: Marvel On Top

>>88669893
>hi, I'm /tv/. I'm ashamed of the source material for my beloved cape movies.

Can the bendis meme end now. Put this bald bastard out of his misery

>>88669957
No, I love the comics, I just dont get why people think their sales matter. I dont watch cape movies.

>>88669651
Moon-Girl's book is pretty good. The problem is Marvel shoving her into a bunch of other books. I actually really like MG&DD, but every instance of her getting talked about or showing up in other peoples' books has felt incredibly out of place and forced.

It's a nice, fun all-ages book. The kind I'd buy for my niece. It's just Marvel's fucking awful marketing that makes her come off as a horrible character because most people haven't read her book and have no interest to, so having her shoved in everyone's face outside of her book comes off as forced and disingenuous.

>>88647693
Bendis should really stop with the capes and concentrate of the Powers comic.

>>88669929
Shipping costs are usually determined by weight. More issues means the package for their shipments is a little heavier, meaning they have to pay anywhere from a couple extra cents to a couple extra bucks to compensate.

>>88669929
Truck goes vroom vroom.

>>88669988
>backpedaling
Like clockwork.

>>88670016
Thanks.

>>88670020
You're autistic.

>>88670028
What do you expect from Mousecuckteers? Shilling, backpeddling, strawmanning, and goal post moving are the only things they know how to do lol.

>>88670048
At least I know how delivery works.

>>88670028
...no I didnt?
My point is the same: people care about the movies because they're actually successful (they generate a lot of money). I don't like them but that doesn't make it less true. The comics sales are NOT more important to the big marvel corporate.

>>88670092
English is not my first language so I was confused, no need to be a bitch.

>>88669929
>I'm not from america, how does this work?
All comics orders for the business week are shipped together by Diamond. Shipping rates are based on volume/weight. If Marvel throws in free comics to sell, it increases the volume/weight and the LCS is charged more for shipping. They can't decline the free comics without declining their entire shipment and basically having no business for the week. Also, the free comics to sell aren't selling anyway at LCSes, so all that's happening is Marvel is costing retailers more money.

>>>88667193
>We also did a comprehensive review of Marvel overships for the past few weeks and discovered we yet to sell any of those overships, because we have yet to sell out of our initial orders. Free books don’t do us any good if no one wants them.

>>88670116
>Marvel is doing so badly in sales that they can't even afford to buy english-speaking shills
Haha oh wow. Marvel really is finished.

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>>88668343
>his run was very good.

Stay awake, Bizarro.

>>88670157
What in holy fuck?

>>88670153
You have serious problems. How am I a shill for asking about shipping details?

>>88669517
>>88669651

I also like her obvious future romance with Marvel Boy.

>>88670247
You mean Kid Kree? She's too young for Marvel Boy.

>>88670116
It isn't mine either. Don't blame your failures on your circumstances.

>>88670371
What failure? I made a question.

>>88670094
Just because one subsidiary is highly profitable doesn't mean that they'll let the the profitability of another subsidiary slide. By your logic Disney would consist of nothing but Princess films, Marvel films, and theme parks.

>>88670157
I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going.

>>88669943
>Marvel Dominates DC Comics In November 2016 Marketshare – Normal Service Resumed?
>Top Ten Comic Books For November 2016: Marvel On Top
Wasn't Batman best-selling book of October?
Marvel pays news sites to make them look better.

>>88657737
Austen was kept around on UXM for ages for two reasons:

1. Jemas and Austen's wife were BFFs and Bendis and Austen himself were BFFs

2. The X-Books were a hot mess that Austen, as bad as he was, was considered the "best" of a bad situation sales and fan reputation-wise.

For context remember the following:

Xtreme X-Men was reviled from day one and they basically forced Claremont to retool the entire book, from avanity project/containment book for old school X-Men fans to being heavily connected to what Morrison was doing along with forcing Claremont to ditch Vargas/Destiny's Diaries as the driving plot point, after a year and 1/2 to try and stop the bleeding.

Meanwhile, Morrison was in deep deep shit. Morrison was demanding a Whedon type deal where Frank Quitely would draw the book and the equally slow Ethan Van Sciar as the only artist Morrison would allow be his back-up artist for when Quitely couldn't keep his schedule

But with everyone hating Xtreme X-Men and fans REALLY REALLY REALLY hating Joe Casey's Uncanny X-Men (due to Casey being high all the time and producing substandard dogshit), New X-Men was the only core X-Book that was selling or had any positive buzz. So Morrison was told to fuck off and told that Igor Kordey would draw a bunch of issues to get the book out on time/double shipped to make up sales from the other books. Also that Quitely was threatened with blacklisting if he didn't have Riot At Xavier's drawn well in advance as far as them reworking the issue order to burn off his contract in one fell swoop/forcing Morrison against his will to take Phil Jimenez, Chris Bachelo, and Mark Silvestri on as his new artists to wrap up his run. Which made Morrison angry as fuck and not wanting to stick around.

Austen's run at Marvel only turned to shit when he was then given Avengers and scorched earth sales and pissed off the Pym fanboys mightily. And ironically laying the groundwork for Bendis to scorche earth the Avengers even worse

>>88670612
>Wasn't Batman best-selling book of October?

No, it was the Big Trouble In Little China/Escape From New York crossover. Champions #1 would've gotten the top spot if not for that.

I think the problem with Marvel is that they thought that mixing all the franchise together made them better when in actuality it made all of them weaker. For example, Spider-Man didn't get popular because he hung around Captain America and Iron Man all day. They built up his rogue's gallery, his supporting cast and his themes. Iron Man had his tech side, Thor his fantasy side, etc. Marvel instead just keep mashing things together, which unfortunately is a trick that only works a few times. For example, Avengers Age of Ultron didn't feel as special as Avengers. Infinity Wars has more potential because it will merge Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr. Strange into the mix. But a future Avengers film with them together won't have the same spark because the interaction has happened.

Which brings me to my second point, Marvel keeps going back to the past but people are willing to move on. Like how they did Civil War II after the Civil War film. The hype from the film was that they will suddenly see the story on the big screen, not that they will see more of the same story. Marvel confused the audiences wants to have a second Civil War when it wasn't the case, and has backfired. It would be like if in 2 years, they have an event where Thanos gets the Infinity Gauntlet again. The hype for the film is there because it's the long awaited story translated to film, but the event would be tedious because it's just repeating what has been done.

So now Marvel is caught between bringing back the original heroes, which people are starting to move on from, replacing them but not having the creativity to make stories for these characters to really break out, or just mimicking the films, like Guardians of the Galaxy did.

This is why Marvel isn't going anywhere.

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>>88670647
>things that happen after you piss off a chaos magician

>>88670647
Is this actually real or your headcanon again?

>>88670647
>Austen's run at Marvel only turned to shit when he was then given Avengers and scorched earth sales and pissed off the Pym fanboys mightily
W-what did happen?

>>88670187

Everybody said that.

Nothing holy about it, though. It's just Matt Fraction.

I cut my subscription on 'Iron Man' when I saw it. That was a first.

>>88670277

Kid Kree, if you insist.

>>88670540

Get the fuck out.

>>88670736
Austen had Wasp start hating on Hank Pym out of the blue, bringing up the fact that Hank hit her (and making up NEW instances of spousal abuse too), turning Hawkeye against Hank and then bedding him/manipulating Hank into catching them post-sex.

The plan was to have Hank turn evil as Chuck hated Hank and wanted him irredeemably evil and a villain for Jan to beat up for feminism

It's also been rumored that Avengers Disassembled was such a complete and total hot mess because it was Austen's storyline and Bendis had to rewrite it when Austen was fired and Hank/Jan exiled from the title with a half-arsed reunion to damage control

>>88670450
I'm speaking in general.

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>>88670987
How can one writer be such shit?

>>88670665
>No, it was the Big Trouble In Little China/Escape From New York crossover.
Which also was shoved into lootcrates.

>>88670673
>It would be like if in 2 years, they have an event where Thanos gets the Infinity Gauntlet again.
You fucking know that'll happen.

>>88671043
Exactly. And Champions showed up in My Geek Box, Comic Block, and Funko's Collector Corps box while Doctor Strange showed up in Funko's Collector Corps box.

>>88670647
So did Morrison end his run in such a weird, jilted manner to fuck over marvel?

>>88658659
Here's what I don't understand: Why was RiRi created when James Rhodes exist? The way she was introduced felt like Marvel deliberately sabotaged him and Tony to make her look better.

>>88670708
Poster is partially true, exaggeration aside.

Casey's UXM and Claremont's XXM were widely reviled and that put Marvel in a bad spot where they could not allow New X-Men to be published ala Astonishing X-Men: one issue every six-eight months.

The final straw was when the climax of the Cassandra Nova arc had to be extended by one issue because Quitely coudn't get issue #125 done on time to get released, meaning Morrison had to rewrite the last part of the to stretch it out an extra issue.

Ethan had already been sent packing in favor of Igor Kordey and Morrison was told that Quitely was going to be let go. Morrison was also made to write a bunch of filler stories (like the introduction of Phantomax and Dust) so that they could make Quitely draw the entire "Riot At Xavier" storyline and basically be rid of him.

That said, Phil Jimenez was actually brought on by Marvel because, by that point, sales for New X-Men had started to slip big and they thought Jimenez was a big enough name to boost sales. Especially given that, they had the fact that Invisibles had sold horribly for DC until Jimenez started drawing it; they thought that Jimenez/Morrison would sell far better than Quitely/Morrison.

But Austen was kept around because he sold far more consistently than Claremont and Morrison, especially given how Uncanny also had fluxating art issues (going from standard cape art to manga and Euro comic art).

>>88671284
Yeah Morrison seems flakey enough to yard out when forced to face the commercial realities of his work.

>>88671371
Shut up, Millar.

>>88671221
You know, pointing out that Marvel killed off the original Black Iron Man Replacement person to shove in a new Black Iron Man Replacement would probably cause a nice little shitstorm. I'd love to see that.

>>88671109
And it'll be written by Bendis too!

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>>88671284
>Invisibles had sold horribly for DC until Jimenez started drawing it; they thought that Jimenez/Morrison would sell far better than Quitely/Morrison.

>>88671147
The ending was less a fuck you and more Morrison never really expecting Marvel to give him the ending he pitched for Planet X (the climax of his run): Magneto dead, Jean dead, Emma/Scott a couple.

The original ending Morrison wanted was a two-part "day in the life" story about the very first human student at Xavier's school who teaches all of the other mutant students that being a piano prodigy=having a mutant power.

#151-154 basically was Morrison paddling about and laying groundwork for future writers to undo what he did with Jean and Magneto (revealing Sublime possessed Magneto and made him attack Manhattan, reveal that Jean was reincarnated as a Phoenix Egg on the moon).

IIRC the ending of his run (Scott and Emma making out on Jean's grave) was a last minute thing which Morrison threw in when he got word that Marvel was going to keep Jean dead and Emma/Scott would stay a couple. It's also why #155-156 were haphazardly written: Austen had been commissioned to do a two part story where Scott dumped Emma's ass and they would then (per Whedon's original pitch for AXM) have Cassandra Nova slowly possess Emma to get revenge on the X-Men (hence why AXM clashed with Morrison revealing that Ernst=Cassandra, in that Whedon made the pitch without knowing Morrison was going in the direction and that the set up Austen put together, got dumped by Whedon when he changed the Cassandra storyline entirely when he was allowed to steal Kitty from Claremont)

>>88671443
It's true. It's also the main reason why it took so long for V1 to be reprinted in full: V1 sold badly and DC decided it was due to the fact that unlike V2 and V3, it didn't have a big name artist to serve as a draw to get people to read it.

>>88650008
Nah they'll continue to pretend that people enjoy their SJW nonsense and replace Daredevil with a trans Indian woman

>>88671588
>replace Daredevil with a trans Indian woman
stop giving them ideas pls

>>88671612
Anon it's almost 2017!

We can't have cis straight white male heroes anymore

>>88671556
That's why it hurts. Quitely is godly, Jimenez is the usual in-house style.

>>88650008
As someone who enjoys Totally Awesome Hulk, Ms. Marvel, All-New Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Gwenpool and new Nova, I hope not. They need to keep going at least to give me new Runaways series.

>>88671754
>enjoys Totally Awesome Hulk,
OK.
>Ms. Marvel, All-New Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Gwenpool and new Nova
How gay are you?

>>88671826
nothing wrong with liking new Ghost Rider and Nova

>>88671826
All those titles are great though.

>>88671826
Sniktbubette is written by Tom Taylor, the guy who did Superior Iron Man. Which was a pretty neat little story. Is All-New Wolverine actually bad, or are you just REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing?

>>88671867
>>88671901
>>88671904
Anon, the fact that you're getting those comics for free at your LCS doesn't mean they're good. Seriously.

>>88650137
Who are the fat guy and the Ainsley cosplayer in the back?

>>88671826
>How gay are you?
Is that a honest question and are you hitting on me?

>>88671949
>Anon, the fact that you're getting those comics for free at your LCS doesn't mean they're bad Seriously.
FTFY

>>88672030
>doesn't mean they're bad Seriously
No, they're bad in a factual manner.

>>88671221
Rumor floating around is that Bendis decided to kill Rhodes off because he heard rumors that Rhodes was going to die in Cap America Civil War (not true, as they ended up just temp crippling him)

>>88647693
He wont be on suicide watch till Miles fails. How do we make this happen?

>>88670673
>Which brings me to my second point, Marvel keeps going back to the past but people are willing to move on. Like how they did Civil War II after the Civil War film. The hype from the film was that they will suddenly see the story on the big screen, not that they will see more of the same story. Marvel confused the audiences wants to have a second Civil War when it wasn't the case, and has backfired. It would be like if in 2 years, they have an event where Thanos gets the Infinity Gauntlet again. The hype for the film is there because it's the long awaited story translated to film, but the event would be tedious because it's just repeating what has been done.

I think it's not just limited to Marvel, but at the same time, it does seem like the Alonso era of Marvel has gotten too blatant about repeating itself and the worst part is most of its moves don't even pretend to be organically done. AvX came off like them wanting to do Civil War again but with even worse execution, and Civil War II was even fucking worse than the original and AvX. What's next? An even shittier version of AvX? Oh wait, there's IvX. How's that going?

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>>88669434
This actually makes me angry.

>>88672496
>One of the Jokers was Facilier all along

>>88671035
People talk shit about the likes of Bendis and Humphries, but Austen is inarguable the worst writer the Big 2 have ever seen. The man was really and truly horrible to the point that his name became such sales poison that he started going by a pen name and any book he was put on even with the pen name proceeded to tank.

>>88673055
Consider that: in an industry where most readers don't give a fuck about quality and just want nostalgia pandering and "safe" stories/art, even then Austen's comics were so bad as to drive away people that don't mind shit comics.

>>88670673
>So now Marvel is caught between bringing back the original heroes, which people are starting to move on from
This is how Marvel wishes it was.

>>88670987
>It's also been rumored that Avengers Disassembled was such a complete and total hot mess because it was Austen's storyline and Bendis had to rewrite it
I think we all know bendis well enough at this point to not trying to take any guilt off him, though.

>>88671419
We already mentioned this around here a bunch of times.

>>88671754
Gwenpool isn't stepping on any toes, and Nova features the real Nova as well, so I guess it doesn't count as Marvel needing to take a hint.

Maybe also Ms Marvel, though I heard it's gotten worse for readers since Secret Wars, and now with Civil War II.

>>88657552
>>88669828
>>88669714
>>88669943
I thought advertisement made as much money for comic books as sales or something like that?

So, if investors realize how far the sales have really dropped = less of that sweet advertising money?

>>88647693
Merry Christmas, Benis.

>>88650057
You were 10 during Austen's run?
Fuck you make me feel old.

Regarding future X-Overs to rip-off/retred

There have been consistent rumors, ever since Bendis GOTG/Loeb Nova, that Bendis wanted to do a "sequel" to Annihilation. Basically retred the storyline with more Marvel heroes and to allow Bendis bragging rights about how his version of the event outsold the origina so that people only associate it with him and not the original story's writers.

>>88677464
Sounds almost funny the idea of him trying, now that half of Earth's heroes aren't even around anymore.

Well, that and him not having even read the original. And being bendis.

>>88673756
Kinda. If advertisers learned that actual sales were dropping they'd seek lower ad rates. Not only would it affect individual books, but weak showings by multiple titles could see advertisers demand lower rates across the board.

>>88678049
That wouldn't stop him.

>>88672030
No, that's pretty much exactly what it means.

>>88670094
>The comics sales are NOT more important to the big marvel corporate.
The comics and the movies are entirely different divisions within Disney. They are completely separate and have no power over one another

Marvel Studios does the movies

Marvel Entertainment does comics, tv shows and merchandise

>>88662595
Shut the fuck up, loser. You will never be a superhero. No reason every character has to look the way you wish you looked.

Accomplish something yourself for once and you won't have to make these sad attempts to derive pride from your whiteness.

>>88662628
Lol you don't even have money to pay for your comics. Please stop posting.

>>88669517
>Cho is an asshole and I like him
>Moon Girl is an asshole and I hate her

>>88650267
>>implying that Marvel would let go of their golden cuck

>>88650370
>>88650524
>>88662665
This is stupid. There is grief and then there is ultimatum. I am ok with Sam despite being a Dick Rider supporter. I don't seeth with rage when I read Nova.

However fucking ultimatum? Fuck Loeb for that. He KILLED an entire like of comics that was once outselling 616 titles. You can't fuck up this big man but he did.

>>88650096
You know the only person I have ever seen succesfully pull RDJ's charisma on Tony was Mark Millar in Ultimates. AND that was BEFORE Iron Man was even made.

He might be a hack but at least he gets some of his characters.

>>88657438
>>88662354
Honestly? Marvel fans are more awful than DC. I mean yea DC fags are sometimes the most insecure fucks when it comes to console wars but Marvel fags don't know quality when it hits them 5 times over.

They want new exciting things but always go back to the generic drivel shit thats been done million times over.

>>88682477
People were just fed up with the "Superior ______" gimmick already. I mean, Superior Spider-Man was stretched for a whole fucking YEAR. And Tony Stark barely takes a break from being portrayed as a villain or at least a huge douchenozzle, so that added to it. How could anyone guess it might be actually good?!

Marvel needs to get a clue that those crazy storylines aren't meant to last too long.

>>88671035
>>88673055
This is the guy who shipped Lana and Superman and tried to sideline Lois. He said that Lois only loved superman and hated Clark while Lana loved both?

even tho the two were already married for years at this point. Even doe Lana hadn't been a big part of Supes life for years at this point. Even doe Lois fell in love with Clark and then superman later in continuity... and Lana only wanted Clark in her life...

Fuck Austen man. Also fuck people who thought pre flashpoint Lois was that shallow.

>>88672367
Bendis actually confirmed it on Tumblr. He said from the trailers it looked like he was going to die so he killed him off.

That kind of blatant attempt at Synergy with the movies is hurting marvel right now. Fuck them.

>>88682599
Did he write something good? Ever?
>>88682617
Know what's the best part? Nobody's forcing them do to SYNERGY, they're doing it all by themselves.

>>88670816
fuck off bendis you bald kike faggot

>>88682777
Yeah its annoying. NOBODY asked for Synergy.Nobody thought that there would be confusion with 616 and mainstream movies or new readers will be confused coming into comics from the movie

I mean fucking hell, the whole appeal of multiple mediums of storytelling is how various intepretations of superheroes are done. That's why we have multiple spiderman shows and each comic fag probably has their own preferred one.

That's why we got ultimate, marvel adventures and other version of characters.

MCU should be its own medium of Marvel heroes but Editorial fucked it up big time by forcing the comics into the MCU synergy. Hell I got into Marvel through the ultimate line and then tried 616 and was excited to see how MCU would put their fancy spin on characters. Instead I genuinely loath when a MCU movie comes because I know editorial will forcefully synergize and change what made their characters unique.

>>88682589
>And Tony Stark barely takes a break from being portrayed as a villain or at least a huge douchenozzle, so that added to it.
Civil War didn't even turn him into a cool villain, just a lame strawman for writers to tear down. You can't let writers do that for years and then turn around and act surprised when nobody wants to buy his comic.

>>88649885
How would you make Riri interesting /co?

My plan:
>Set story in Marvel's version of Detroit
>Everything's shit
>Crumbling infrastructure
>Police and gang violence
>Instead of 15 year old MIT student have her be a high school drop-out, to highlight how education system is for poor people
>Have her make a base in an abandoned factory, highlighting crumbling industry
>She earns money as, essentially, a tinkerer for he community
>Seeing the violence and desolation around her she wants to do more
>Inspired by Stark she is working on a prototype suit, by scavenging and trading
Unthinly veiled metaphore, as her creation of the suit at home turf runs parallel with how Stark made his suit in a hostile land
>Have her use a prototype to save a stranger from cops
>Que inspiring shot of her protecting a guy from bullets a la Luke Cage
>Suit gets wrecked
>Her actions attract the attention of media and local criminals
>Que Tony Stark arriving
>Offers her work/scholarship, she has to leave "Detroit"
>She disagrees as she doesn't want to abandon her home/community
>Stark leaves
>She's kidnapped by the local tech-oriented gang or her family is threatened, or both
>She's forced to make a working suit by the gang
>Finds a way to solve a previous problem with the suit, thanks to something Tony said
>Gives a rigged early prototype to the thugs
>Uses the rigged suit to take out the core of the gang
>Puts on the real armor to threaten the rest
>Tony arrives again with a new idea
>Stark industries HQ in "Detroit", she gets a position in the company
>She'd be renovating her city not abandoning it
>End of arc

How does this sound /co? Remotely readable?
You can even tie this into Civil War as Stark is dead/gone and their plans have fallen through, so she's back to square one. Maybe add a conflict with Carol or something.

>>88685294
I'd rather read a new Steel comic DESU.

>>88685294
Have her find a giant robot from space and become the protagonist of a mecha anime.

>>88649796
>Hey Lets have 2 Ironmen, Look at our New Black Female Lead! Im sure whoever they make the second one cant possibly compete
The Moment Doom came into the picture all hope was lost for anyone to pay attention to her.

>>88683899
Precisely.

>>88650267
Would bendis work as series writter?
A meximan soap opera.

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>>88685294

>>88685294
>Set story in Marvel's version of Detroit
>Everything's shit
>Crumbling infrastructure
>Police and gang violence
>Instead of 15 year old MIT student have her be a high school drop-out, to highlight how education system is for poor people
>Have her make a base in an abandoned factory, highlighting crumbling industry
>She earns money as, essentially, a tinkerer for he community
>Seeing the violence and desolation around her she wants to do more
>Inspired by Stark she is working on a prototype suit, by scavenging and trading
I think Stark had a story arc like that in the Marvel Adventures line. With the help of some locals and stuff.

>>88687215
Cool, remember the issue?

>>88687482
I dunno, it was a whole mini... a version of Armor Wars or Serpent Society I think? Lemme see if I can find out here.

>>88657552
>I don't understand how giving away free issues will look good for sales numbers

because WE (as fans) don't actually see sales numbers.
those Diamond charts are just how much was ordered/sent to stores.

>>88687482
My bad, it was Iron Man Legacy #6-11 or somethign like that, apparently. It's set when Tony was in the gutters. Looks worse than I remembered, it involves Illuminati crap.

I think I figured it might be Marvel Adventures because the series just didn't seem to fit within continuity.

>>88687780
But did it involve a black wunderkind in "Detroit"?

>>88687519
>>88687780
Oh I read-up about and it features Illuminati and Pride! Loved those assholes in Runaways

>>88686083
I've preferred the first two issues of Riri's book more than the one issue of Doom's so far, desu senpai. Riri being a new character means at least Bendis can't fuck anything up. Doom's book was:
>let's ruin Triumph and Torment
combined with
>let's ruin Ben Grimm
with a dash of
>let's see how many Fantastic Four villains we can unceremoniously kill off while writing out of character in one issue

Infamous Iron Man makes me scared of what Bendis will do next. Invincible Iron Man makes me... well, not really care much at all one way or the other, but both issues so far had great art and competent writing while not shitting on any pre-existing characters.

>>88688179
>let's see how many Fantastic Four villains we can unceremoniously kill off while writing out of character in one issue
It sounds like a retarded kid breaking all the public toys on a tantrum so no one can use them. Wonder if that's just Ike with the movie business or bendis about to be taken out of the comics.

>>88649328
No, the usual behaviour for years was: Fans go apeshit, it greates a shitstorm and a small media stirr -> instant bestselling book.

I think it's just that Marvel doesn't have enough fans anymore to create a shitstorm big enough (or that the fans are to leached out to any longer give a shit).

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>>88690104
>No, the usual behaviour for years was: Fans go apeshit, it greates a shitstorm and a small media stirr -> instant bestselling book.

This is actually correct. In fact Brevoort even confirmed that. Superior Spider-Man is also an example. Arguably Jane Foster as Thor also was another one (pre-ANAD)

But it's notable that this year, with Cap being part of Hydra and Bruce Banner's death.... that ploy isn't working as well as it used to. Banner's death was like a blip on the radar, and Cap as Hydra? Well, look at this image. Brevoort and others will damage control about their books but it's not looking good. Mind you, I don't think Spencer's Cap is that bad and knew it was going to be a stunt. I didn't expect them to reveal the truth by the second issue so soon, though.

>I think it's just that Marvel doesn't have enough fans anymore to create a shitstorm big enough (or that the fans are to leached out to any longer give a shit).

I think that might've been what happened. A part of it is also that Secret Wars gave fans an excuse to drop books. On top of that it seemed like they drastically changed things too much within the last two years. Steve Rogers is old while Falcon is the new Cap, Jane is Thor, Watcher was killed and old Nick Fury became the new Watcher while Fury Jr becomes main New Fury, Wolverine is killed off and replaced with X-23, Tony went Superior then became poor (and will be comatose or whatever after Civil War II ends), James Rhodes is killed off, She-Hulk is altered to be more like the Hulk, Peter Parker got hijacked by Otto and then later has his own company as a result, Banner had a bunch of changes before losing his powers and Cho becomes the new Hulk, Riri and Doom replace Iron Man, Mutants being affected by the Terrigen Mists, Inhumans being unsubtly pushed, Reed and Sue are outside the Multiverse, etc etc.

Way to much to do within 2 years. And Marvel's arrogance won't allow them to apologize to fans.

fuck marvel

>>88692926
Fuck Marvel?

>>88692959
Like the comic company?

>>88691633
Difference is Disney.

They sped up Hyrda Cap by 2-3 issues. Did the revel earlier. They usually wait 6 issues.

>>88669995
I actually was taught in class by a writer of Moon Girl (Brandon, I think), so I'm happy it's working well. He was nice and modest about his writing, if a little withdrawn.

>>88692982
The one that makes comics or something?

>>88682617
Or in the original draft him and Wanda died. You know the one before Feige did his little revolution from Ike.

>>88693092
Yes, Marvel Comics.

>>88693127
So %#$& them?

>>88693180
Like...sex?

>>88693230
No, it's like, "%#$&" them, not actually %#$& them, you know?

>>88662104
It's a shame. Two issues in Sorcerers Supreme is a solid, entertaining book. Javi Rodriguez's storytelling and panel construction are great.

>>88681462
Did writing this comment make you feel like the badass you aren't and never will be?

>>88681462
"Shut the fuck up" said the whingy, powerless, projecting, triggered child

>>88681462
Shut the fuck up, loser. You will never be a superhero. No reason every character has to look the way you wish you looked.

Accomplish something yourself for once and you won't have to make these sad attempts to derive pride from your blackness.

>>88691633
>A part of it is also that Secret Wars gave fans an excuse to drop books
I'd disagree with is. SW was very well received ( got great reviews and sold really really well ); although it's true that it fucked over some titles ( like Magneto's solo ) *most* of them more or less picked up where they left off with a few exceptions like Daredevil that did a bit of re-booting.

Rather the constant renumbering/relaunching has given fans excellent JUMPING OFF POINTS. I used to suffer though dry spells on characters/titles I liked hoping that eventually things would improve ... but these days I can just dump anything that's not rockin' my socks knowing that there *will* be a relaunch in the ( relatively ) near future which will be overtly designed as a "jumping *on* point" ... which means that there's not going to be much in the way of continuity overlap: Flash is Agent Venom and a member of the Avengers and dating Valkyrie; Now he's a gym teacher and has a sidekick named Mania; Now he's a Space Knight/GotG; Now he's gone and some edgelord is the New Venom; Now ...

They've actually been doing this for a decade or so but the number of issues between resets has gotten so small ( 6 - 12 on average ) that it's literally simpler to just check out new #001's than to pay any attention to who the creative teams are or what the storylines are (for the books you've dropped or never started reading).

This is why you see such a huge dropoff between the first and second issues these days.

>On top of that it seemed like they drastically changed things too much within the last two years.
This is also a major issue: you can kill off Captain America or Batman and have their sidekick take up the mantel ( as happened with cap->bucky/falcon or bats->dick ) over the short term. Or you can kill off Robin or Superman ( or "Disassemble" the Avengers ) ... but that shit has to be a big fucking deal in universe and a ( relatively ) rare trick that you only pull out ever 5 - 10 years.

>>88669434
This seems entirely plausible. I can understand the impetus to create characters for his daughters specifically, but Miles and gay Iceman seem like transparent attempts to secure his progressive legacy so that in 30 years industry retrospectives are sure to include his name.

>>88691633
>And Marvel's arrogance won't allow them to apologize to fans.

This

If they did that? They would have to admit they were wrong...and they'd never do that.

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>>88696428
>and they'd never do that
>they
I think we all know (((who)))'s behind this, anon.

>>88696926
I don't think it's him.

From what we've all heard he doesn't seem to actually pay attention to plot, just as long as they aren't using characters he has banned (FF). I could be wrong but given his uber conservative stances I don't see him saying "Kill off Tony Stark & replace him a with a negro girl!"

>>88657552
Only so much shelf space. You going to stock your 50 extra issues of Champions or 10 copies of Image movie pitch 3498776

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it is as if there is a tight knit nepotism going on in the writing department of comic books.

seriously, when i we gonna see new writers?

i tired of this bald muthafuka!

>>88697009
>he doesn't seem to actually pay attention to plot
>I don't see him saying "Kill off Tony Stark & replace him a with a negro girl!"
You understand that you literally undercut your second statement with your first, yes?

Also, don't confuse dropping some money on Trump with being "conservative" in the redpill sense of the term:
He's a billionaire (wants lower tax on his .01% dosh)
He's one of the single largest shareholders in Disney (wants less regulations in some places (like net neutrality) and more in others (like IP protection, DMCA extensions, and eternal copyrights)
He's an Israeli national rather than an American born Jew (they tend to back Bibi's nationalistic bullshit/illegal settlements ect)
All of those are things that you might expect a Republican government to back over a Democratic one.

At the end of the day the dude's more or less literally Shylock: ALL he cares about is the bottom line; so the endless relaunches, constant retooling, Big Events that start before the last one's even finished are just as likely to come from the top as the lack of FF and the big push of Inhumanity.

>>88697032
>seriously, when i we gonna see new writers?
Like this?

>>88663156