Why did the Batfamily worked while the Superfamily and the Wonder

>>88622331
Batfamily has "bat" in the name and is tied to "Batman." That's why it worked and the others failed.

>>88622331
Robin is more iconic/known to normies than Wonder Girl or Superboy (Supergirl is an exception to this since she's had a movie and TV show) so more people pay attention to comics about him, regardless of which one is behind the mask.
Also Batman comics are much more popular and he's had way more media exposure, so any batfamily members included in this media will have gained fans.

Does the batfamily really work tho?

Most of the spinoffs are low selling books with nightwing and Nu harley being the exceptions

>>88622489
I mean, most of the batfamily members have fans, their fans are just tumblr landwhales who don't actually buy/read comics, just post out of context panels and squee about how cute the '''family dynamic''' is

>>88622331
Marry supes family into bat family, simple.

>>88622489
>low selling
It depends on what your definition of "low selling".

Also, Nightwing and Harley seems like they will fall to 40k next month which isn't a big different from the rest who are selling around 30k. Though, it's still more than the Superfamily.

>>88622331
The many reboots Superman has suffered didn't help either. Batman has had a more stable continuity over the decades.

>>88622331

Batman has clear glaring weaknesses in his character that needs support to cover. Superman doesn't need help of any sort, that isn't mostly provided by human hangers-on, and Wonder Woman doesn't have any critical issues that require aid or perspective.

>>88622530
>their fans are just tumblr landwhales who don't actually buy/read comics
I see. So, people who are buying the batfamily books aren't their fans?

>>88622607
Their books would have higher sales if the tumblr 'fans' bought them, is all I'm saying

>>88622331
The Batfamily is the only one with consistent pushes and strong ties to each other. Even then the Batfamily as we know it is more or less a creation of the 90s. Batman and Robin shared a book for decades. Superman and Supergirl/Wonder Woman and Wonder Girl did not. Even now writers are extremely comfortable having various Bat-characters appearing in a single title outside a crossover while Super-characters do so infrequently. Wonder Woman rarely interacts with her associated heroes in her book, comparatively.

>>88622642
>is all I'm saying
No, you said that their fans are JUST tumblr who don't buy or read comics. So, by your definition their comics shouldn't be selling.

>>88622331
From a technical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with the "Wonderfamily". It just comes back to the all too common problem of writers being too lazy to do any research on the character, and thus her supporting cast gets ignored. Donna and Cassie are exceptions to this due to them being members of well known teams, but the Amazons and others are only now getting any significant attention because DC is clearly making a concentrated effort to stop being retarded about WW.

And thank fuck for that, it was starting to get ridiculous. Even Artemis is back and possibly better than ever. Which still baffles me that Scott Lobdell of all people is writing an Amazon well and without any strawman bullshit.

>>88622565
Nightwing would have fall to 40k sooner if it wasn't for the crossover that give it a boost.

Harley on the other hand is actually suprising why she is selling less than her N52 book.

>>88622665
>Even now writers are extremely comfortable having various Bat-characters appearing in a single title outside a crossover while Super-characters do so infrequently
Isn't this because they worked? If the bat-characters weren't well received by the fans DC wouldn't have pushed them while Supergirl (the most popular super girl besides Superman) is struggling despite the fact DC is putting effort on her.

I can't speak for the wondergirls, but superfamily fails because it is never given any effort. Clark interacts with supergirl/boy mainly in their origins, and then rarely after that save for a crossover or two. There isn't a super duo book, or a Krypton's Finest, just two of the last remaining members of a species who also happen to be blood relatives hiding out on the same world but only seeing each other once a year, if that. Nu52 Kara saw clark relatively frequently, but they never really teamed up beyond H'el 2.0, and they never really bonded as cousins. Now that she's over her angsty phase, he's dead and the supergirl writer says he doesn't want supergirl to interact with superdad.

But hey, you get Jon.

Batfamily gets to work because it was actually allowed they hero grow into something fans could love and want more of.

There is also the point that Batfamily is sort of a natural extension of Batman's story in a way Superman and WW's spin-offs aren't. Batman works best with sidekicks, when he has someone to bounce off of, so writers keep adding sidekicks of various qualities to him which then grow into the Batfamily.

Superman doesn't have sidekicks, he doesn't need them. His spin-offs are literally that, people introduced under his banner who then fuck off to their own thing. What Superman needs are regular humans in his life. Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Cat, Bibbo, Hamilton, people who ground him and accentuate the important aspects of his character. That's the direction Superman's world should spread in. Superpeople are more of a afterthought in comparison.

WW... is gay or something. I don't know.

>>88622590
If this is true, then why Batman is more popular than Superman and Wonder Woman?

>>88622331
Because people care about Batman.

They don't give a shit about WW or Superman. That's the truth.

Batman having sidekicks and partners was established fairly early into his existence and it made sense with him just being a human. Superman doesn't really needs back up much and was always a guy carrying the weight of the world on his back.

>>88622763
Scott Lobdell is actually a decent writer. He just has the twofold problem of needing to be reined in and also having zero spine.

>>88622814
I think changing tastes might be one of the reasons behind Harley's number drop. Her book is functionally a non-canon comedy piece, I think that more people are wanting a more canonical and villainous book now.

>>88623115
It's not about pushes, its about appearances in the main Bat books. Kate, Cass, Steph, Duke, Harper, and Jean-Paul don't have solos right now, the ones that did have solos were either years ago or low-level titles, and all of them have fan baggage, especially Harper and Duke. What matters isn't the level of popularity for a single member but rather the degree of integration with the tentpole of the franchise.

>>88623267
Superman and Wonder Woman, though they keep swapping hers out, both have extensive non-heroic supporting casts, something Batman lacks.

>>88623239
>Jon
Will he survive like the robins? Or is going to be ignored like Chris in the far future?

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>All these fags fighting for who is best family among Bat, Super and Wonder clans
>Ignoring the real best family

>>88623990
Not with all whining of Wallyfags.

>>88623318
I think he just described why Batman's more popular

>Wonder Girl
I'm rather out of the loop. Is Wonder Girl still that blonde girl, Cassie whatshername(Sandsmark?) or has she been replaced more recently? Or has Donna Troy reassumed her role

>>88623990
Hahaha, no. Fucking pleb.

>>88624129
Yeah. She hasn't appeared in Rebirth aside from a short story in New Talent Showcase (which I'm not sure whether or not is canon).

>>88622607
>batfamily books

The related books, with the exception of SOME of the Nightwing runs, don't sell any better than the Supergirl or Superboy stand-alone books.

NONE of the bat family members have had as long a run as Superboy's v1 in the modern age, not Grayson, certainly not any of the multiple volumes of any of the Todd books, not Demon Spawns, even the Batman and Robin or Batman and Son didn't last as long, nor any Drake books.

For that matter, the Lois Lane self-titled and the Jimmy Olsen self-titles also had longer runs than some of the Batfam combined.

>>88624129
>Wonder Girl still that blonde girl, Cassie
Yes, but she's in limbo currently.

Clark and Kara needed a team up book where he taught her about earth and she taught him about krypton while fighting the occasional cosmic entity

>>88624272
That was during the silver age. Jimmy is irrelevant now and Lois is a dumb breeder. Superboy was forgotten because he was kiddie stuff. Nightwing is a Batman property now. Now Superman doesn't sell better than even Harley Quinn.

>>88622331
Batman was allowed to keep his whole family from being erased because DC didn't to piss of Morrison (minus Cass and Steph at the time) and was allowed to pretty much stay at the same point he was in comics.

Superman and Wonder Woman had to restart from the beginning because of Mu52. Because of this, you couldn't have Superman and Lois have a 10-year-old kid in less than a year. They both were still exploring their beginnings and what not.

Which is why Convergence Superman was able to have a kid, while Nu52 was not.

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>>88623990
Bitch please 90s flash family was GOAT before johns ruined It with Barry wank

>>88624422
Superman family has been shit since before new 52.

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>>88623990
> all of these people are in limbo now

DC is only NOW rebuilding Flashfamily and they are mere hints so far. At least other clans have survived reboot somehow.

I blame the thousands of hard reboots and retcons Supes and Wondy have been having from COIE to rebirth. Batman never had a hard reboot and was allowed to keep his family and continuity every time. O'Neil provided a smooth transition after the crisis, while Superman and WW offices were filled with Marvel rejects who thought that pre crisis stuff was for kids and nobody needs to remember that, so let's reboot. Batman wasn't rebooted during Flashpoint either for Morrison,and as he was their top property after GL.

>>88624422
Batman, Inc. simply didn't switch continuity. You forget that practically all of Batman and Green Lantern's continuity was kept.

The Superman family has the perfect amount of characters to do something interesting with if writers actually made an effort:

Superman
Powergirl
Supergirl
Superboy
Jon
Lois

The Bat Family has too many characters...

The Wonder Family is weird because of all the inconsistency surrounding the Amazons and Donna's backstory.

>>88624437
And then they all dumped Bart on Max.

>>88623115
Eh i think wait should wait for supergirls 1st trade before we start saying she's struggling. But i see you're point

>>88626632
Supergirl book was canceled in n52 and DC has been trying so hard to make her work for years. Heck, they even put a raising star in her book.

>>88626718
I was talking about the recent volume not her new 52 series or her other past series which i understand really either struggled or just plain out bombed. Like i said i see you're point, it's just i expect this volume to sell better when it comes to trade.

>>88624889
>The Bat Family has too many characters...
Batman
Batwoman
Batgirl
Nightwing
Robin
Alfred

Roughly the same amount of characters.

>>88627029
>Batman
>Batwoman
>Batgirl
>Red Hood
>Nightwing
>Robin
>Alfred
>Lark
>plus the detective team
Fifty

>Roughly the same amount of characters
No, they aren't.

>>88624889
>Superboy
>Jon
Why these two are separated when Jon is officially the superboy?

>>88627109
>Outlaw [Bizzaro]
>Superwoman
>Steel
>Steel's niece
>Super Lex
Welp, detective team gives slight edge in 2 or 3 characters. That really makes big difference.

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>>88622331
Superman does not regularly work with the rest of his family. If you wanna see a how it should be done check out Captain Marvel.

>>88627202
I included Kon even though he's currently in limbo.

>>88627433
>three Billys are replaced by OC PoCs
It makes me sad.

>>88627433
I like the n52 Shazam family and wish to have them back.

>>88627370
>That really makes big difference
It does because all the batfamily are currantly active (except Tim) while most of the Superfamily are ignored.

>>88627470
You don't like Darla? I thought everybody liked her.

>>88627470
The diversity in Shazam was done right.

The characters were really likable and not forced.

>>88627606
Everyone I listed is currently active though.

>>88627825
PG is in alternative universe (unless you mean the new PG who ironically is showing up in Deathstroke while the superbooks are still ignoring her). Kon is limbo and I highly doubt that Super office will even acknowledge Bizarro because they only care about EL family.

>Steel
>Steel's niece
Are they even important in Superwoman or they as irrelevant as the detective team? I don't read the book so I honestly don’t know.

>>88622665
>Even now writers are extremely comfortable having various Bat-characters appearing in a single title outside a crossover while Super-characters do so infrequently.

This right here. Bat-family actually interacts while Super-family and Wonder-family shared a name and little else.

(Don't call me) Superboy rarely interacted with Superman or Supergirl, in various comics I'd be surprised if they're together in more then a handful of issues.

Same with Wonder-girl, Donna Troy and WonderWoman.

>>88627996
>as irrelevant as the detective team
More so because the detective team was at least relevant in the crossover.

>>88627433
>Superman does not regularly work with the rest of his family.
Because he's good at his job and doesn't need a bunch of people hanging around.

>>88627996
>>88628049
Seriously, what's their problem? Why refuse to use them and let them interact as family?

Bizarro and Artemis for example are well received and it will be nice to see them in the main Superman and WW books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got ignored.

>>88622466
I'd say Superboy is pretty well known. YJ had him as basically the main character. It's just too bad people remember t shirt Superboy instead of LOSH Superboy or SLAMMIN' Superboy.

>>88628363
I don't think they will be ignored because they already connecting Artemis to Wondy in her upcoming arc in Rhato and I really think Superman will show up at some point. Not to mention that they are part of the Dark Trinity and their connection to Superman and Wonder Woman is being acknowledged.

>>88623655

The problems is that writers usually don't care for non-heroic supporting casts. They usually care only about the heroics.

Some writers would go to the extreme to have Superman and Wonder Woman be super-heroes 24/7 and pair them up as an item than ever doing anything with their non-heroic supporting cast.

Honestly? The way i see it the Superman Family and the Wonder Woman Tribe only works when they're paired with the Batman Family. It's like... as if Batman was the sausage in the trinity bun.

Don't believe me?

Of all the connections Donna Troy had with other characters, the one most liked was the one she had with Nightwing where they were brother and sister.
One of the most liked things about the clone called Superboy was his relationship with the third Robin. People still beg for that interaction back.
Even after CoIE people still thought of Supergirl and Batgirl as besties despite Barbara Gordon being a cripple and Supergirl being a weird gum creature. Then once they introduced the Supergirl that was actually Superman's cousin after IC one of the the biggest character in her supporting cast was Batman, who acted like her godfather.
Now with Rebirth you've people cheering for Jon and Damian interaction and finally giving a crap about Artemis because of her banter with Red Hood.

So my answer?
Pair the Superman Family and Wonder Woman Tribe hard with the Batman Family.

Bring back Dick and Donna as best friends ever. Make them inseparable. Instead of Babs always showing in Nightwing solo to guilt-trip about something, show Donna for her to act as his shoulder.
Keep pushing Jon and Damian hard.
Make Red Hood and Artemis a couple.
Make Supergirl and Batgirl best friends again and inseparable. Have Supergirl as a supporting character in the Birds of Prey book.
Have Batwoman be friends with Lana (Superwoman) and Steel. Have her constantly in the Superwoman book. God knows Jimenez would love another lesbian in the book.

>>88628814
>The way i see it the Superman Family and the Wonder Woman Tribe only works when they're paired with the Batman Family. It's like... as if Batman was the sausage in the trinity bun.
It's painful how true is this.

No one cares about these characters besides their connection to the Bat characters.

>>88622331
Batfam subverts expectations and gives a sad man who lost his family a new one.

Superman and WW are happy and already had a 'home'.

>>88628814
Rebirth supergirl really is too young to be BFF with batgirl though since her writer decided that her entire nu52 run took place in six months so she's still in high school. Even Steph is in college now right?

>>88622331

Honestly some heroes just don't lend themselves well to Sidekicks and it usually has to do with how powerful they are. Superman doesn't need a Robin, he's not doing what Batman does. They're fighting a different battle. While Batman is waging a war against Crime he needs soldiers and support but Superman's deal is protecting humanity from threats that are larger than life.

>>88629510
With how young Babs is being portrayed nowadays it isn't too hard to imagine them being friends desu. They're teaming up in a Batgirl annual at any rate.

>>88629510
>Steph
No, she's sixteen.

And Barbara is just 21.

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>>88622590
>Batman's not super so he's relatable!
>Superman's unbeatable so he's unrelatable!
>Batman can beat Superman and everyone else singlehandedly

>>88622331
The Superfamily was killed as a concept in Crisis on Infinite Earths and his supporting cast has suffered ever since. Even before then, Superman's supporting cast is filled with people so that he doesn't constantly need a "family" of superheroes to keep him connected. He's got people like Perry, Jimmy and Lois instead of Robin, Robin and Alfred.

>>88623115
>Supergirl (the most popular super girl besides Superman) is struggling despite the fact DC is putting effort on her.
Supergirl was an extremely popular character for decades. A large part of her struggling is that writers consistently try to distance her from Superman and only use her as her own thing.

>>88629671
>power level fags think that weaknesses are only related to fighting

>>88629726

Last issue of Supergirl sold about 37k. I honestly don't know if that's struggling or not with how shit comic sales have been lately.

Then again this is /co/ that's also saying Superman is struggling for it's 10th and 11th issue only being 20 and 21 in the sales despite only being behind events, 1's and the Bat

>>88622331
Homoeroticism.

>>88629834

Huh... i guess that's right. God knows the Batgirls are always crewed while the Robins mostly stay intact.

>>88629821
She fell from 100k to 30k in just three issues despite having a TV show as a free publicly and a raising star is writing her book. She's struggling.

>>88629939
Mostly because her story is pretty boring and art while charming at first is also.

>>88629590
>>88629570
>They're teaming up in a Batgirl annual at any rate

Oh I had no idea. I stand corrected

>>88629939
To be fair her art is repulsive and the plot so far is pretty lame

The Batman family actually interact with each other and stories are built around it. They all have their personal relationship with Batamn and with each other. The Superman family always struggle to interact and form bonds with each other. Supergirl has some interaction with Superman, Superboy is more of a Young Justice/Teen Titans character, and Power Girl is pretty much always on the outside looking in and is more with the JSA. And the Wondergirls aren't even Wonder Woman characters but were created and get all their development in the YJ/Titans franchises.

>>88628814
>bring back Dick and Donna as best friends ever.

Read Titans Hunt and the Rebirth run

However, really connecting Grayson with Bruce and the rest of what is happening in Gotham is ridiculous. You might as well connect Hal and Ollie because of their road trip, or Hal and Barry because of all their friendship and team up stuff (even through the New 52).

Todd is now working with a Bizarro? Is that a connection between Superman and Bruce?

>>88629939

Most comics are seeing drops like that from 1 to 2 these days. Comics on the whole are struggling

>>88630345

There's nothing wrong about having Donna show up in the Nightwing solo book so that they can talk about relationships and villains and stuffs like that. Dick having a best friend outside of the Bat-Family is GOOD. It makes him feel more connected to the larger DCU.

Remember when Dick was like the Kevin Bacon of the DCU? Everyone was connected to him and loved him, which served in contrast with Bruce since most people can't stand Bruce. There was this teasing about Dick eventually becoming a better leader than Batman because of how well connected, well liked and well-respected he was.

Nu52 did away with all of that, so bringing his friendship with Donna back would be a good start and would do Donna well. All the girls that fawn over Nightwing would be wondering who's that girl that interact so well with Dick and that he respect so much.

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>>88630446
>girls reading comics

>>88630446
you mean the worst period of comicbooks
thank god they moved away from that

>>88630446
All the girls that fawn over Nightwing already know who's Donna because he's not really gaining any new fans.

>Remember when Dick was like the Kevin Bacon of the DCU?
Glad this period is forgotten.

>>88630658

But Donna could gain his fans. This is not about Nightwing.

>>88630680
His fans know about her because most of them are old fans who already know/read everything about him and her showing up in hs book isn't going to make her gain a new fans.

It's not like Artemis who is actually benefiting from being associated with Red Hood.

>>88630830

>most of them are old fans who already know/read everything about him

Not all, though.

>>88630850
Gaining just few new fans who might not even like her isn't going to benefit her, though.

Also, she's appearing in Titans which is close to Nightwing sales and better chance for her to gain fans.

>>88630967

So her appearing in both books would do awesome for her.

>>88630967
She is a mess of character that I don’t think anything interesting can be done with her.

Artemis is the only wonder character who actually has potential.

>>88622331
The reason those two work is because they're both capable of having a flexible cast that can appeal to everyone. Take Superman. You want weird sci-fi takes? Read Jimmy Olsen. Want a comic for girls? There's Lois Lane and Supergirl. Want a family sitcom? The current Superman run is just that. The list goes on. Not to mention they're all consistent and constant, they've been a part of Superman since his inception.

Wonder Woman simply doesn't have that, because she's stuck in her own bubble. She simply doesn't have flexibility as a character, nor a cast that appeals to anyone and everyone. You won't see a kids book spinoff featuring a WW character, she's way too violent now and Donna Troy is stuck in Titan Hell. Her love interests are so inconsistent that it's downright unfeasible to make a Steve Trevor book. Etta Candy has been barely used since the Silver Age. Wondy's a lone wolf, for better and for worse.

>>88631909

>Take Superman. You want weird sci-fi takes? Read Jimmy Olsen. Want a comic for girls? There's Lois Lane and Supergirl.

That stopped with Crisis on Infinite Earths. Since then writers have taken an aversion to Superman human supporting cast. They only want to do super-heroics.

Jimmy Olsen lost his role of Superman's pal in favor of Batman.
Lois Lane was still around, but almost every writer had an itch to replace her with Wonder Woman, something they finally did after Flashpoint.
Supergirl was the only one that survived, but because DC wants to make the character stand out from her male counterpart you rarely see Supergirl and Superman working together.
The Daily Planet as well all but disappeared in favor of the Justice League cast.

That's why the current Superman books have been so refreshing, because they're finally doing something with the mundane stuff that used to make Superman related stories so comfy. Even back during the silver and bronze age comics Superman was mostly family drama, but with a sci-fi twist. but from the 90's forward it all became about the heroics. Nu52 specially so.

>>88622331
>superfamily failed
Naw

>>88622331
dc can't make up their minds with supergirl

geoff johns ruined superboy beyond repair

steel never gets to fucking do anything

jimmy olsen is the best supporting character ever but only when writers embrace the weird shit (almost never)

>>88632204
>geoff johns ruined superboy beyond repair
finny way of spelling Lobdell

I never understood how the 'Superfamily' or 'Team Superman' never became as entrenched into the Superman mythos as the Batfamily is into the Bat-mythos. It always seemed like family should be just as important to Superman as it is to Batman. It always seemed to me that Superman would treasure any family he might have just as much as Batman. It's not like he doesn't have a recognizable supporting cast and tangential superheroes, like Supergirl, Superboy, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Steel, Natasha Irons, Mon-El, etc. I think that's sort of what they tried to do back during the pre-Flashpoint New Krypton arc, which was exciting, but then they fucked it up anyway. I've never understood why Supergirl isn't as close to Superman as Robin is to Batman.

>>88624272
How long did Superboy run for? Didn't the Cass Cain book hit 100?

>>88622331
because batman binds them together, you know there is a real relationship between the batfamily. You know how damian feels about tim, jason, bruce or dick and vice-versa. Tim and Steph has something between them, Cass may be in the middle. Barbara with Dick, etc. etc. Because they interact continuously between them.

Superfamily right now. You only have Superdad with John and Krypto. Superboy is practically dead. Supergirl has not even encounter superdad, the same from New-Superman. They did not know each other.
Supergirls not even liked superbro and had only meet a couples of times. The same with Steel, he practically had no interaction with superbro, much less with superdad.
The superfamily got pretty fucked up in new-52 compared at what it was before.

And wonder family practically does not exist right now.

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>>88622331
Part of it is barrier to entry. It's insanely easy to make a new bat characters: You just create any street level vigilante you can think of, and then put them in Gotham with a bat on their chest. It's much harder and way more restrictive when dealing with Supes and WW. With Superman you have to always come up with some convoluted way for them to exist despite Superman being "The last son of Krypton" and then once they exist you need to come up with a reason why Superman "needs help." Wonder Woman is a little better with plucking someone off of Themyscira, but is worse in the sense that, like other anons have said, WW as a character doesn't easily gel with a family. " Not to mention her continuity being all over the place. It's hard to start a family when writers can't even decide who you are.

>>88632039
It's so retarded that DC just stopped doing anything with the Superfamily after Crisis, because during their prime they were just as popular as Superman. I really hope Jimmy/Lois get a new ongoing someday.

>>88633864
>that pic

perfect

>>88632039
Supergirl was also distanced by the stupid insistence that Superman could be the only Kryptonian for decades, making weird workarounds to keep using the name. She was a weird revolving door of strangers.

>>88637221
And on that note, it should also be said that after Crisis on Infinite Earths there's been a huge insistence that Superman is not just the lone Kryptonian, but that a major part of his character is loneliness. His supporting cast can never be too close or useful, because Superman is fated to always be alone forever as Space Jesus: he loves us, but always from a distance. DC's worked a very, very long time to wreck the idea of Superman as a character with a family, to the point that lots of people couldn't even imagine him with one.

>>88633864
It's way easier to make Superman characters than Batman ones, for the sheer reason that Superman stories often have a much more absurd sense of logic. Street vigilantes need backstory and training and gadgets and they need to be unique but not break suspension of disbelief, but a Superman character can be goddamned anything. Just look at how surreal and bizarre his Rogues Gallery is, and his Silver Age cast.

>>88637318
>It's way easier to make Superman characters than Batman ones, for the sheer reason that Superman stories often have a much more absurd sense of logic
In a vacuum, maybe. Look at the dozens of street level characters in comics. Any of them could be a bat character with some minimal tweaking. One of the things that keeps readers away from Superman is the absurdity, so you have to keep it to a minimum when finding ways of introducing new characters. DC's new strategy of just giving powers to a bunch of humans is interesting, but raises a lot of questions.

>>88633864
If the Batfamily is just street-level, Gotham, and working with Batman why does the Superfamily require them to be Kryptonian or Wonderfamily have to be Amazons?

>>88637578
Define absurdity. Comics have always just given powers to a bunch of humans, why does it raise questions in this instance?

Supes = not enough familly to really carry it, clone and cousin?

Wondy = not enough family and its most likely going to be girl only, ancient Greek mythology is becoming a hard sell

>>88633368
Superman had a book called Superman family before the crisis.

>>88623990
It's still a crime that the flash family doesn't have an animal on the team

>>88633348
Johns started ruining Superboy by making him emo and Lobdell continued the process by making him convoluted.

Johns has done some good things but he set the precedent for The Young Justice cast getting screwed over.

>>88638049
You can easily expand both families. If you're restricting family members to just people actively involved in heroics then you can do:

>Superfamily:
Clark
Kara
Kon
Jon
Steel (John)
Steel (Natasha)
Gangbuster
Guardian

>Wonderfamily
Diana
Donna
Cassie
Silver Swan (Vanessa Kapatelis)
Steve
Etta
Artemis
Nemesis

>>88623655
>Alfred
>Gordon
>Lucius Fox
>Bullock
>Montoya

>>88638742
I'd say that Bullock and Montoya don't appear frequently enough nor do they interact with Batman enough to count. Alfred and Lucius are directly involved in Batman's heroics.

>>88638787

Montoya is a Batwoman character now anyway

>>88623655
What non heroic cast does Superman have now? Only Lois.

>>88638913
Jimmy was featured pretty heavily during the depowered arc and Cat was frequent during Nu52.

>bat family is from the streets
>they all happen to be super computer geniuses and kung fu masters
Bat family is pretty boring tbqh

>>88623990
I like how you posted a picture from the comic that literally killed The Flash family so they could make Barry Allen the one true Flash who everyone only gets powers from because he allows them to suck the speed juice from his godly balls.

>>88638956
stay mad

>>88625111
To be fair, Bart was immediately super popular and was getting his own book/spinoff because of how well Waid's Wally was selling. They had to give him a "mentor" figure but Waid didn't want another Wally book. So he threw in Max as a supporting character/mentor because it fit and let Bart still be the star.

After Impulse ended Bart started showing up in The Flash way more often.

>>88638942
Superbro is dead and both of them are irrelevant now, and that's how superfags want it from their reaction.

>>88628814
Donna was never Dick's best friend.

>>88630446
>There's nothing wrong about having Donna show up in the Nightwing solo book so that they can talk about relationships and villains and stuffs like that. Dick having a best friend outside of the Bat-Family is GOOD. It makes him feel more connected to the larger DCU.

Wally West was that for years.

Admittedly, Wally West was the only Non-Bat, Non-Superman character who was friends with basically everyone and could show up in any book.

>>88622331
Superman family works fine, it's just DC has never been to committed to it
Wonder Woman barely works as her own character so of course she's not gonna work so well with a family of mini hers

>>88639004
Solicits already show Superbro coming back, something we all knew was coming.

>>88629671
it's not unreasonable to think of Batman as a control freak, loner, or even womanizer. those are his character flaws
Superman the worst you can do with him without completely shitting on the character is to do the whole god complex thing and even then that's pretty out there for his character
What makes Superman a good character is that he is the ideal, but that's also his fault to continue his character in static time.

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>>88639074
also the character faults of Superman also apply to Wonder Woman

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>>88638636
>Silver Swan (Vanessa Kapatelis)
Vanessa and her mom really do need to come back.

In fact, what I find amusing is that despite the disturbingly frequent tendency of writers to portray Diana as not understanding how da hu-mann works, she has an almost absurd number of human friends due to her frequently changing status quo.

>>88639053
He'll only appear to tell Superman hoe he's doing awesome job, better than he did and fuck off forever.
Like Ultimate Peter and Miles.

>>88639074
>loner
no

>>88638956
They honestly not. They are pretty interesting and full of potential.

The Superfamily is actually boring because no one bother to develop them and the Wonderfamily is nonexistent.

>>88640006
This. He literally founded 3 god damn super teams.

>>88641090
>I WORK ALONE
>JL has hundred of members, give or take some creator's pet
I bet he has the most League appearances.

>>88640006
>>88641090
>>88641138
Batman's a loner, but it's mostly because he's kind of an asshole and not many people want to put up with him for long periods of time.

>>88639847
It wouldn't be very hard to link the Kapetelis and the Sandsmark either.

Superboy and Wondergirl are terrible names.

Robin always sounded badass to me.

>>88641479
You now know why nobody takes most of LoSH seriously.

>>88630446
>Remember when Dick was like the Kevin Bacon of the DCU? Everyone was connected to him and loved him, which served in contrast with Bruce since most people can't stand Bruce
No, because it's something we were just informed about, not something we ever actually saw in the stories themselves.

>>88622331
I think it works for Batman because he is (in the widest sense) seen as an everyman, he can use every bit of help he can get and if there were ten of equals to him in gotham city, the reader would still accept that there's enough to do for all of them.

Superman OTOH, well, writers already struggle to write interesting challenges for one of his kind. Consider what the writers do if there's more than one of him. Either the other Family members get dumbed/powered down until they become a nuisance, or the challenges appear unreal up to the point where the reader "disconnects".

>>88630446
>Remember when Dick was like the Kevin Bacon of the DCU?

Literally the most overrated Nightwing "gimmick" people are forcing on him.

Wally West is connected to DCU ten times more than Dick ever was.

>>88622763
>DC is clearly making a concentrated effort to stop being retarded about WW

And yet, they cast Gal Gadot...

>>88642642
>>88642755
You realize at that point in continuity Dick had strong ties to the Titans and the Outsiders, and had served a Justice League stint?

>>88622331
Want to know what woks even more? The Goku family.

>>88645203
>goku family works
>vegeta has to support gohan when his own father disparages him

>>88646466
That's Piccolo's job senpai

>>88623990
>That girl's suit
How is that legal?

>>88623990

What an embarrassing post.

>>88646484
Someone hasnt watched dbsuper

>>88622688
Hyperbole
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric;

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>>88623990
I fucking love the Flash and Co, but a third of those fucks need to die.

At least Jay can go mach 1 without the asinine speedforce while the rest are fucking helpless.

We should slut the entire fucking Batman Family.

DC is already on the right path with Jon/Damian and Jason/Artemis.

>>88647932
Dick/Supergirl
Batgirl/Mon-El
And the best one
Batman/Superman

>>88647576
kys

>>88644961
holy shit you casual, take your company wars bullshit somewhere else and read COMICS

>>88648273

What about the rest of the Wonder Woman family?

>>88639074
>Superman the worst you can do with him without completely shitting
>tfw no one reads the silver age and believes this garbage

>>88647045
Implying anyone should.

>>88641445
>Batman's a loner, but it's mostly because he's kind of an asshole and not many people want to put up with him for long periods of time.
Nothing of this is true.

>>88645202
There was a time when Wally was a part of like 4 different teams, including the Titans. Wally was fucking everywhere because A: it was easy to explain away with superspeed and B: he was basically DC's best superhero for like 10+ years. He was in the JLE/I so all those folks loved him, the Titans loved him, he was a core JLA member. I think Outsiders was the only thing he wasn't in, and EVEN THEN you'd get shit like Flash + Nightwing or Dick showing up in The Flash for Wally to comment on that shit.