How come the hero with the most broken superpowers also has the

>>88611111
Flash has the threatening, nigh-undefeatable villains in Zooms.

The Rogues are local thieves, for the most part. Playing as a team is their only chance of posing a threat to the Flash. Well, that, and preptime.

>>88611111
First off, CHECKED.

Second off, the Rogues actually make more sense when you remember there was a time when nerds weren't calculating Flash's speed down to the attoseconds. Barry was also less fast than Wally became. With that in mind, their powers make sense as threats to a guy whose power is goesfast. Remember, Gardner Fox loved using comics to teach kids' science lessons, so the Rogues' powers are physics-based.

Captain Cold and Heatwave weaponize extreme temperatures, which are a big impediment to the human body's metabolizing energy to move. Weather Wizard can throw tornados and thunderstorms and shit at Flash, which even if he can dodge them, are still so dangerous he has to focus more on saving civilians than catching the crook. And Mirror Master is the best because all the super-speed in the world won't matter if you're running towards an optical illusion. As for Captain Boomerang...


...yeah, I got nothin'.

>>88611111
You just like don't get them

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>>88611257
>As for Captain Boomerang...
>...yeah, I got nothin'.

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>>88611257
>As for Captain Boomerang...
Friendly reminder

Flash is a garbage character especially when he can "steal kinetic energy" or whatever. Half the issues are:

>Someone stops Flash from using his powers and does a bad thing
>Flash figures out how to use his powers again and fixes it

But it's never the curbstomp battle it should be. I honestly don't think there has ever been a good Flash comic. The closest I've found so far is Iron Heights, which is dark for no good reason and feels out of place, but at least it gives Flash a problem to solve that isn't:

>run fast
>punch thing

>>88611344
Usually, the Flash siphons Speed Force from other speedsters, not just any and all kinetic energy.

But his comics are very much inconsistent. I mean, in the Bronze Age, the writers seemingly forgot Zoom's real name, and had everybody (including himself and the Flash) refer to him as "Professor Adrian Zoom" for multiple issues.

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>>88611257
>he doesn't know about the boomerang force.

>>88611344
>Someone stops Flash from using his powers and does a bad thing
>Flash figures out how to use his powers again and fixes it

That's blatantly false, most of the time he either completely forgets he had those powers or he is fighting an evil speedster than is faster than him.

>>88611430
For Geoff Johns' run he can pull kinetic energy from anything and give it to anything. He uses it to stop bullets in midair a few times, giver other people enough speed to run as fast as he can, and even speeds up the process of making vaccines. It's bizarrely overpowered and never explained well.

>>88611468
>falling for the Johns is a good writer meme

>>88611468
He was doing that as far back as the Waid run though.

>>88611111
The Flash needs goofy, small threats to force him to pace himself and prevent him from going-all out, destroying his reality. If he was forced to up his game to the maximum, he'd take his Earth with him.

you can always tell the difference between "Comic Book Fans" and "Movie Fan/Wikipedia fans"

It's Flash's rogue's gallery

>>88611497
The Rogues are very proficient at using preptime and teamwork though. They aren't just goofy.

>>88611111
They aren't super villains. In fact, they live by a strict code that keeps the super villain tag, and by extension the full powers of guys like Flash and Superman, away.

The Rogues commit low level theft and disruptions of public peace. The punishment must fit the crime and thus the Flash can't just blitz in and vibrate through them. Just like how the U.S. doesn't drop nukes on school bullys.

Also, truth is, they are more similiar to the Flash than they are different.

>>88611257
>As for Captain Boomerang
He excelled in the Silver Age where people didn't call out ridiculous bull shit so much. Boomerang rocket ships, chairs made of boomerangs, turn himself into a boomerang? That shit was all good to go.

One of my favourite silver age issues has boomerang sitting on a throne, Flash confronts him only to find out that the throne is just a bunch of boomerangs which surround him.

If Morrison wrote All Star Flash, Boomerang would shine.

>>88611111
Flash is always written like an action hero when in reality the fact that he can move so quickly means that it's a given that he wins pretty much any physical altercation. The only good villain is Mirror Master because he shifts the focus to figuring out what to do next, which is something the Flash actually has to work at.

>>88611430
>Usually, the Flash siphons Speed Force from other speedsters, not just any and all kinetic energy.
I think he stopped a cake as his first use of the kinetic stealing stuff.

I think Waid just loved star wars and decided to make speed Jedi

>>88611468
>It's bizarrely overpowered and never explained well.
It is explained. The Flash has a hardline connection to a fundamental physical force in the DC universe and can use that connection to manipulate velocity.

It's no different than a scientist who uses gravity to slingshot space ships into outer space, which happens in reality. To someone who has no idea what gravity is, that seems absurd, that planets have a magical force that can throw space ships. But that is our reality.

>>88611490
He has a good talent for reinventing villains.

They have the most OP superpower in comics, Prep time.

>>88611111

Because of that get makes them threatening in the first place

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>>88611257
>As for Captain Boomerang...

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>>88613288

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>>88613311

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>>88613341

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>>88613363

I'd actually like to see a comic where Batman trails a heist to central city and finds out the Rogues are behind it, and goes after them without consulting Barry at all. Bruce gets his ass embarrassed by the rogues who don't actually have mental problems he can take advantage of or easily plan his way around.

>>88611257
He is fucking Captain Boomerang mate, that's all you need.

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I used to think by the clown brigade that legit can outdo Flash that DC must just think his one power is sucky.
But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and accept that DC has overturned the hero=underdog dynamic in the Flash books.
That's smart writing that's worth reading.

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Flash needs a more lighthearted threat, otherwise they'd probably commit suicide from their Reverse Flash counterparts.

>>88611490
Who are some good Flash writers then? Genuinely curious.

>>88611111

Weather Wizard is a huge threat, and Mirror Master's dimensional wankery is almost as broken as the speed force, just being deployed by a limited-mindset thug. He is DC's electro, who could be a global threat like magneto but is just too dumb to realize it.

>>88613626
I pay good money to see this.

>>88611111
Shit, now you're going to get all the Rogues fanboys in here trying to argue that Cold is an actual threat and that "Some villains are a threat in more ways than physical" bullshit explanation again.......


They just have their fans, everyone else think s they are a fucking joke but the fans pay for it so here we are..

>>88615046
They really aren't that dumb. Just very low ambitions, or at least as far as crooks go.

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>>88611111
Wasn't Flash mostly a street level guy who was never considered anywhere near top tier before the mid 90's or so?

So fighting a guy that throws boomerangs or a guy with a freeze gun is pretty much on his level.

>>88611289
It would be easier to explain his as actually being a top level psychic powered reality manipulator, only he is a fucking moron that never realizes it and assumes this is all trained skill of some kind.

>>88614584
Messner Loebs

Read Johns' Flash. The best showcase of what the Rogues are capable of.

>>88611635
This is true

Sinestro was complete shit from creation to Rebirth, now he is one of the premiere villains in the setting.

Black Hand, Nekron, Brainiac, he actually made them into something worth while.

>>88611577
Still hard to figure out how a piece of wood going about 30-35mph is a threat to a guy that moves at light speed.

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>>88615183
Yeah. Then they had some Flash power creep and the asinine Speedforce intro while the Rogues never really moved up in power.

>>88611257
I don't really understand how someone who can outrun bullets would ever get hit by a boomerang.
Like it has to be going at 1/10 the speed of a bullet.

>>88615183

He was never street-level, Flash has been silly-broken since the silver age, if anything he pulled even more fantastical pseudo-science stunts back then than what the speed force allows.

But it was the bonkers silver age, after all, so a man who was just shown being fast enough to run across the surface of clouds could indeed be hit in the back of the head with a boomerang.

>>88615183
For silver age DC he was. The writers invented some really bullshit things for the Flash and his villains to pull off given their powers but none of it was the reality raping stuff that goes on today. The insane power creep came in with the invention of the Speed Force, then every writer after started inventing new ways to use it until Flash became more powerful than kryptonians.

Silver Age Flash really was just a guy that ran fast, sometimes he made little tornadoes that never actually hurt anyone. He only phased through matter to get out of traps.

But along side Superman who pushes planets, and Green Lantern who could make them and fill it with fully intelligent people, Flash was a low level almost normal guy.

>>88611441
This is literally the coolest thing I have ever seen

>>88615298
Johns' Flash makes Wally come off like a complete idiot when in one panel he can stop objects in midair and in the next can't figure out how to stop Weather Wizard.

Steal his kinetic energy. Take the wand. Done.

Or steal Cold's energy and take the gun. Or Mirror Master and take his gun. Or Boomerang and take his boomerangs. This isn't complicated.

>>88614584
Geoff Johns.

>>88615379
Its not about avoiding them as they're thrown, its about avoiding them as they come back.
Boomerangs skill is that he can cause so much upfront distraction while the real attack is coming from behind.
I grant you its not on par with freezing the air so flash can't move through it, but when you add in trick boomerangs as well and take into account the Flashes Arrogance it can still catch him out.
Reminder that Barry stood still thinking about all the ways he could avoid a bullet so much that he actually got shot.

>>88615593
It seems like the rogues only stand a chance because the shittiest possible people got Flash's powers.

Also in Johns' run he can give other people his powers so he could just give them to someone smarter.

Oh well.

>>88611590
>I think he stopped a cake as his first use of the kinetic stealing stuff.
Could he stop forty of them?

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>>88611111
Underestimating rogues is never a good idea OP,besides under a good writer the rogues are more interesting that the flash.There inner politics,demons and Unity are more complex than anything Barry Allen will ever be and anything wall west was

>>88615504
Sadly, unlike the fan excuse for Superman to just speedblitz everyone, this is the safest option for absolutely everyone and should be the first thing Wally does to stop any villain.

>>88611111
>not evil Speedsters

What decade is this? No one that isn't a speedster could ever threaten a Flash! Dead mommies!

>>88611111
How fast does the flash go while he is fighting these guys? I remember heatwave saying something about him going 20 times the speed of sound and I just thought how could he possibly hit something going that fast.

>>88615800
Well yeah. Especially after Geoff boiled Barry down to "MUH MOMMY!"

>>88615593
mate did you read Johns flash?Take weather wizards wand he can still control it without touching it,take captain colds gun it explodes,take mirror masters gun it explodes.Run at mirror master and get sent to another dimension,run at cold get frozen by his cold field 5 meters away

>>88615943
Yes?
How does any of these blunt statements with no context help in the discussion on Captain Boomerang and how he ever was a threat?

>>88615920
I always thought the stupidest thing about Flashpoint was that Barry could only become the Flash if his mother died, when originally he became Flash just fine with no dead parents.

>>88615993
Boomer is a right cunt and a natural born shit talker, like all australians
They've weaponized shit talking, it is truly fearsome.

>>88615993
The OP was about the rogues in general but for boomer,he was always back up whenever there blitzing flash,like grazing him from behind while he's stuck in tricksters gum,by himself he's not much a threat but in a team setting he makes great air support

>>88614584
Waid, ignore all nu/co/ memes about him

>>88616098
Let's be honest here, Champions has been hot garbage

>>88616131
Sure but people now even start hating on stuff like Kingdom Come because of it

>>88616187
Well that's just stupid. Nobody liked the writing in Kingdom Come anyway, we all just came for Alex Ross.

>>88616209
I'm seeing people take Birthright to task.

Point is, he's fallen in the same hole that Miller did when everyone talked shit about him and even his older, better work.

>>88616244
He just needs to come back to DC so he can have an actual editor instead of an overpaid retard who gets payed to shitpost on the internet and dream up variant covers and other sales-boosting gimmicks

>>88613626

I've been thinking about this a while and how about this, other anons can either flesh this out or just change it entirely.
It'll be a 6 parter crossover arc between Batman and Flash.

Issue 1 of Flash - Wally learns about Rogues planning a heist on Gotham because some special equipment, and Wally goes there alone to prove himself to Flash for umpteenth time.
Issue 2 Batman - Batman knows Joker? is planning something big and trying to gain information, instead finds out a speedster is running around the town. He sends a message to Barry.
Issue 3 Flash - Wally gets captured by rogue as they successfully steal from Penguin? While 1-2 Rogue are keeping Barry busy in Central City
Issue 4 Batman - Batman tries to rescue Wally and gets captured himself due to first fighting against Penguin's reinforcements, then rogues.
Issue 5 Flash - Flash runs to Gotham and teams up with Damien to rescue Batman and Wally. Issue ends with Zoom breaking out.
Issue 6 Batman - Zoom wanting to gloat over Barry runs to where he is and quickly takes out everyone. Gloats to Barry as he's down, only to get surprised attacked on himself from batman. Though he manages to escape. Issue ends with menacing joker panel since that'll be next arc for Batman.

Anyways, the idea for Batman being captured by rogues was because >>88613626
>Bruce gets his ass embarrassed by the rogues who don't actually have mental problems he can take advantage of or easily plan his way around.
but Thawne clearly is completely obsessive over Barry which batman used to his advantage.

This arc can also be used at later date for something like "Underground/Criminal Wars Arc" where Gotham criminal unite to fight against Rogues as payback to stealing from Gotham.

>>88613288
>>88613311
>>88613341
>>88613363
>>88613376
post more

>>88611344
Flash has curbstomped the Rogues several times. The only one he can't easily handle is Mirror Master because his powers are actually OP as shit.

There's over a dozen instances of Flash just disarming all of them, tying them up, and leaving them for the police only for Mirror Master to break them out of jail.

The Rogues are only a threat when narratively convenient or they have a trap.

>>88611430
The very first thing he ever stole speed from was a cake. So not really.

>>88611496
Maybe lending speed but he only got speed steal in literally the last issue of Waid's run.

>>88615183
Maybe Jay Garrick. And even Jay was moving at lightspeed in his original comics, he was just using it to beat up street crime.

Barry dealt with all sorts of crazy shit. Simultaneously timeline destroying bombs going off at two different points in history and the like.

>>88616262
Sounds awful. I do not want a comic about Barry Allen and Damian Wayne teaming up to save their much more interesting counterparts on top of Batman somehow, AGAIN, one upping Zoom.

Everything about this sounds bad.

>>88613626
We got the opposite of this recently, where The Riddler outsmarted and completely controlled The Rogues like bargain bin chumps because he's a real villain and they're not. This was in The Flash's comic.

>>88613626
Jesus you Flash fans are so insecure it's embarrassing

>>88616838
Jesus you Batman fans are so autistic it's embarrassing.

>>88616751
Well, Batman could teach Black Wally something about being serious while Flash some lightheartedness to Damien.

>>88616838
All you have to do is read a little bit up about how, a few months ago, a single Batman villain embarrassed both The Flash and all his Rogues in The Flash's comic.

This shit happens all the time. That it ever happens to Batman or his villains is nice but very rare.

>>88616838
Guy who posted that, I'm not a huge Flash fan, really. I will admit that Batman's fanwank colors my judgement though.

>>88616874
I am not even that big of a Batman fan, I just find stories built around a hero jobbing terribly just to show how good another one is terrible

>>88616244

Secret Origins was always better though. Superman just isn't Waid's character

>>88611257
you would think that boomerang could at least be an aborigine.... but noooo it's some random bullshit

>>88616244

yeah, strangely it all started happening when he did a Sons of the Serpent story in Daredevil...

Waid's also generally just solid with outstanding moments

>>88616771
Riddler is a literal genius tho, he even outsmarts Batman so I don't know
it would be like Lex outsmarting the Rogue

>>88617051
That's not the point. You can write anyone to beat anyone but I've never fucking seen The Trickster walk into Gotham and embarrass Batman.

The closest I've ever seen was Cold beating Freeze, which is about as tame as it gets and it wasn't like he showed up in Batman's own comic to do it.

>>88617051
The funny and sad thing is we were robbed of Cold pulling a heist on Luthor after pretending to be his "no ambition" bodyguard for a few months.

It's always funny for the super smart to get a little comeuppance from their clever "lessers." Less so the other way around. Shame Johns can never follow through.

>>88616990
>an aborigine
>wanting to be a fucking abbo

>>88617331
Careful, don't diss his mom like that.

>>88616990
Black people didn't exist in 60s comics. It was also harder to make him a racist cunt if he was black.

>>88611111
>Boomerang doesn't even get a mention in Flash's thoughts

>>88611430
I mean, in the Bronze Age, the writers seemingly forgot Zoom's real name, and had everybody (including himself and the Flash) refer to him as "Professor Adrian Zoom" for multiple issues.

The writer (Cary Bates) was notoriously bad at remembering names. He messed them all the time, including characters he created.

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>>88615046
McCulloch has his priorities, and he's not very ambitious.

>>88616771
That also came in one of the shittiest Flash runs within recent memory.

>>88616266

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>>88619400

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1/2

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>>88619439
2/2

>>88611111
They're all equally non-threatening because flash is infinitely powerful.
If I compared the worlds tallest and smallest men to a stick that reached infinitely in both directions they'd both come up infinitely shorter than it.
it could be a gun, a laser, super strength, a rapid fire nuke launching smg, ect. if it travels he can outrun it, amongst other tactics one not bound by the laws of physics could employ

>>88611111
>the hero with the most broken superpowers
Batman

>has the least threatening """super""" villains?
Joker

Okay, everything checks out. Proceed with your thread.

>>88613341
he was doing so good, then he had to go all wiley coyote.

>>88611586
Abra Kadabra and Zoom are just plain more powerful than The Flash, though. And Mirror Master's just a ripoff version of The Shade.

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>>88616209

>>88616098
He ruined Flash.

>>88611111
You're too much of a casual, OP. The Rogues don't intend to be a serious threat; to them, being enemies of the Flash is a gentleman's game. That's why they will never try to kill him or incapacitate him or anything.

>>88619595
Digger likes to think big.