Do you guys agree with Superman's belief that his no kill

>>88545744
He doesn't have a no kill policy though. What he disliked about the Elite is that they killed on sight instead of as a last resort when a villain cannot be subdued or rehabilitated.

>>88545744
>But overall I can't deny it is completely the wrong way and makes these heroes responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths through inaction.
Nope. They don't have to use their powers at all if they don't want to. You should be glad they're helping at all instead of leaving the planet or using them for their own benefit.

Killing is only acceptable in very few circumstances.

Why didn't Supes remove Atomic Skull's powers like he did the Elite?

Infact, why doesn't he just Keep the whole world in a bottle?

>>88545744
I'm ok with Superman killing when he has to.

>>88545744
If it's all about no killing why doesn't he just cripple the villain to make sure he doesn't kill again?
I call bullshit

The no-kill rule is great. The problem is that writers have to keep bringing back villains forever and ever in order to make money, so the idea that they are being put away for good or being reformed goes out the window.

Money ruins the message.

>>88545769
Was Atomic Skull being rehabilitated?

>>88545744
I think Supes is also making an effort to show the Elite how important he is as a symbol. Like, even if his methods weren't super effective at stopping villains, he knows that he has a secondary role as a role model and as someone that instills hope in the general populace.

>>88545744
>>88545769

With what this anon said, and kind of what you said about it not being challenged, what we rarely see is the rehabilitation that is supposed to be the end goal. No warlords or psychopaths in comics change their ways otherwise the story's over

However, if that weren't the case, then I'd side with Superman. That's part of his character: that he sees the good in everyone

Heroes with "no-kill ever" rules are fucking idiots.

/thread

Where do you draw the line?

It's either: No-kill or All-Kill.

Either your Batman, or your the Punisher.

No one's allowed to be in the middle.

>>88545881
eh most heroes operate just fine in the middle actually, they'll kill if it's absolutely necessary but they won't just slaughter them all willy nilly either

>>88545785
What? Killing a villain who has killed innocents is the best way to prevent further civillian casualties. Villians hardly ever change or are put in a jail they can't escape. Once they take an innocent live they forefeit compassionate treatment.

>>88545881

I'd try to stray away with killing if it's just a petty thug, maybe even warn them to cut it out or use their powers for better purposes, though if I had to deal with someone like Joker, Green Goblin, or Carnage I'd kill them right on the spot and be done with it.

>>88545853
Since he can be subdued Superman believes it's the responsibility of the state to execute him then.

>>88545856
Yeah I get that's good and everything but I feel making sure Villains definitively cannot harm innocents is paramount and way more important than a symbol.

Generally yes, I agree.It shouldn't be up to an individual, even(especially?) one like Superman, do decide if someone deserves to live or die except when there is no other option. Of course we're never going to see a supervillain get a trial and lawfully executed because that's not the best story, but we have to accept that just as we accept that a yellow sun can make a man fly. Although I might be interested in a story where Superman serves as a one-man Seal Team Six for taking out some serious super-threat with the individual in question having already been legally and morally approved for execution. Not sure who would be best to write it.

>>88545881
Superman is literally in the middle so you're retarded

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>>88545881
>Ironman
>Thor
>Wonder woman
>Batman (Terry)
>Wolverine
There are alot of heroes in the middle

>>88545962
So he puts laws over the lives of the people.

>>88545924
While what you're saying makes sense it's still not tye responsibility of the person who catches and stops the bad guy to make him not be evil. That is the villain's choice alone. As that anon said the good guy has no responsibility to even try and stop them.

The American Way includes due process and all that stuff. Among other things.

>>88545881
Cops? Soldier? People who defend their lives?

>>88545744
>Do you guys agree with Superman's belief that his no kill policy is a better way than a hero who kills

No because it's a flimsy excuse to maintain the status quo and keep marketable rogues gallery for franchises with no clear direction.

>>88545744
I agree with Superman's no kill policy. Of course, there are exceptional cases but generally speaking, he should leave execution to the state/nation/authorities.

Same thing with the Batman/Joker thing. It's not Batman's fault for not killing the Joker, but the state's for only putting him in a relatively easily escapable looney bin instead of a supermax prison (assuming there's no capital punishment).

>>88546020
No, Atomic Skull does that. Superman saves innocent lives every time he stops him. Superman wants atomic skull to be rehabilitated, so Superman doesn't murder him. Suoerman doesn't even have any kind of responsibility to stop him in the first place so saying he is now responsible for the people Atomic Skull kills in the future is a special kind of stupid.

In all star Superman Lex Luthor is sentenced to death, if the state of metropolis is ok with this, why don't they kill anyother supervillains?

It always cracks me up when people try to insert "realist" ideals into characters like Superman. Besides, we're talking execution here, when's the last time any of you had to make a choice between life and death like that?

>>88546020
So Superman should become the Dictator of earth then? Injustice js the correct moral path for the character? He's smarternd fairer than all world leaders, he can get more done than them, anyone who dies of poverty, disease, etc is also on his head then right?

>>88545744
Superman wants to inspire people to be better and to help create a better world and a better future. He doesn't believe slaying his enemies and not caring about anyone will set a good example.

Meanwhile the Elite kill whoever they call an enemy, don't care about collateral damage or the people involved. They tell you to shut up, sit down and watch them get their hands dirty because the worlds a miserable, shitty place.

If Superman doesn't kill someone when he quite obviously can, what does that really say to you as a person? Does that make him an idiot? Does it mean he really does care about everyone? Or does it mean he willingly doesn't because it shouldn't be up to him.

I kinda wish Superman vs the Elite wasnt so strawmanish because it's a great idea to explore.

>>88545881
1. Inherent right to self defense
2. Defense of others
3. Defense of assets involving national security
4. Defense of inherently dangerous assets
5. Defense of national critical infrastructure
6. Prevention of serious offenses against persons

In all circumstances, deadly force shall only be used when nonlethal force proves ineffective and when the target has the capability, opportunity and displays intent to harm others.

>But overall I can't deny it is completely the wrong way and makes these heroes responsible for hundreds if not thousands of deaths through inaction.
Literally anyone can kill a villain once a hero detains them. It shouldn't be a hero's job to be executioner. At the same time, if a threat is beyond a hero's ability to detain without additional loss of life, that hero should feel free to use lethal force if they are able (some heroes just flat out aren't prepared to kill, which is fine, albeit it makes them a bit shittier of a hero).

A no kill rule that results in people getting killed because the only way to bring the villain in is to kill them is worthless. Violating a no kill rule only after the villain has killed enough people/the right person is fucking stupid. Not having a no kill rule is fine too, but not heroic.

Heroes aren't responsible for their villains (except, you know, when they are, but I digress).

>>88546164
I had an attempted rapist surrender to me once if that counts. Shit was awkward as fuck waiting for the cops while he stood there with his dick out. I doubt I would have gone full Punisher if he had resisted, but on some level I would have preferred beating his ass into the cement at the least instead of standing there between him and the lady he was beating on talking to 911.

>>88545744
Superman has killed but only as a last resort anon. I feel it's a bad idea to let live villains that are completely non-redeemable complete mosters and every single possible alternative has been attempted to make such villains stop being complete monsters.

>>88546279
Why didn't you let him put his cock away

>>88546287
>Superman has killed but only as a last resort anon
He straight up executed Zod and co with kryptonite.

>>88545744

Actually it makes the state responsible since they aren't executing or ensuring that the villiany are properly confined. It's like blaming the guy who sprays for roaches for them coming back when I keep piles of garbage lying around the house.

Inb4 Devil's advocate gets posted. It was a retarded story and makes no sense when Bats hated the Joker enough to let Gordon kill him in NML if he wanted to or threw his body in a dumpster after getting shot.

>>88546125
Ok about the responsibility thing let's say you end up in a room where there's a terrorist, he has a heartbeat monitor on him, killing this man will prevent a bomb, connected to said heartbeat monitor from killing 2000 schoolbuses full of children. Let's say you choose not to prevent this, everyone in the world is aware you had the chance to prevent this but chose not to, do you think when you walk out everyone's gonna be like, "It's all good man, you were under no obligation to stop those innocent people from dying, it's not your job!". No, you'd probably be charged with manslaughter on a genocidal level and everone would despise you.

>>88546020
Kinda yeah. In smaller scale, should a cop execute a disabled criminal because he thinks the law will go too easy on them?

>>88546318
>Why didn't you let him put his cock away
He did eventually when two other ladies walked up.

At one point the 911 operator cringed over the phone as I described the situation to them. God damn it fight or run. Don't make me babysit your ass while the cops drive over!

Maybe if the government warnt so shitty at their jobs Joker would be dead by now.

>>88546330
But the Superman solution wouldn't be to kill that guy it'd be to use some kryptonian heart stop technique and then defuse the monitor.

>>88545797

This, holy shit.

>depower a group of vigilantes that mean well, but are walking the wrong path and could probably be turned toward the light with enough effort
>meanwhile, fuckers like Atomic Skull, parasite, and entire legion of other get to keep their powers and continue the cycle of capture/escape/murder forever

Ruined the whole fucking thing for me.

>>88546253

I didn't like the movie adding the depowering part to the original story, it felt like overkill and made Superman look bad for not doing it earlier to Skull.

>>88546330
see
>>88546336

The argument isn't whether or not superman should kill ever, the argument is whether or not superman should execute defeated criminals.

With Atomicskull, superman can defeat him and have him locked up with reasonable safety. He's in the law's hands at that point. If he can't safely be contained, it's the people and the law's responsibility to pass the death sentence.
For your example, superman would absolutely kill them to save more lives, because he's forced to, not because it's easier like the Elites want to do.

>>88546179
He should stand on the side lines, let the humans rule their own world but only interfer when it will save lives, he is doing this already, just don't have half measures, if there's a killer kill them. And if you believe him doing this is bad because it's against the law, isn't being a vigilante against the law?

>>88546320
Uh i didn't read that issue yet so what was the context

>>88546372
So you didn't even restrain him? He just stood there like a child in time out and waited for the cops? What a faggot

Only Batman has a no kill rule. Every other superhero just doesn't like to kill unless they have to, including Superman.

>>88546395

This. The situation doesn't work with superman because he's superman and has a hundred ways to fix the problem.

>>88546435
Superman travels to alternate universe with alternate universe Zod and 2 followers.

Zod and co have murdered literally everyone.

Superman says as the last person in the universe it falls to him to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Superman pulls out kryptonite.

One of the three strangles another out of rage and the remaining two die of kryptonite exposure.

Superman has a mental breakdown and gets an actual murderer off death row to cope with the guilt of what he did.

>>88545963
Chester did bitch out in the end there.
>You're Superman. You don't do this!

>>88546336
Ok, literally what the fuck are you trying to say?

>>88546451
>So you didn't even restrain him?
He wasn't resisting and I'm not a cop.

If the rapist wants to wait for the cops, I'm not going to complicate shit. I do not know the specifics of citizens arrest laws to even attempt to fuck with a surrendered criminal. I was just at the CVS to pick up some god damn cold meds for my sister, not to spend the rest of my day talking my ass out of an assault charge.

>>88546426
Civilians in comics will always be overall a bunch of fucking idiots so things will always be bad. I'm not trying to be edgy i just read to not be able to b a optimist about things getting etter in universe

>>88546416
So Superman should be ok with Atomic Skull breaking out and rampaging because he wasn't supposed to be his burden.

If Superman is ok with letting unequipped people deal with this sort of thing when he has the ability to stop it permanently, doesn't that make him an asshole?

sueprheroes are not obligated to kill people, ever
it is a personal choice
superheroes are just there to figuratively trip the robber for cops to catch them, they are a public service, if a villian breaks out of prison to continue his rampage, thats on the cops for failing to contain him or give him the chair, but not on the superhero, who decided to stop the villian, when he otherwise was not obligated to
If a superhero decides to kill people, then that decision was his, and his alone

>>88546508
Yep, I guess that's my other problem, whenever a character tries for the opposing argument they always turn out to be assholes or monsters. It's never a straight debate because then Supes would lose.

>>88546591
If the superhero literally created the villain and they are put in a situation where literally the only way to stop the villain from killing someone is to kill said villain, then yeah, they are obligated to kill said villain.

Outside of dangers they created though, yeah, there's not obligation for killing.

>>88545769
>He doesn't have a no kill policy though.
Fuck off.

>>88546488
I well technically they killed everyone so i can't sy they desrved to live, who was the muderer he got off dead row?

>>88546698
Go read comics

>>88546709
lloyd corman

>>88545797
Maybe supes can't take away Atomic Skull's powers without killing him.

>>88546741
Uh doesn't ring a bell, i'm trying to find who that is but i'm not finding info

>>88546870
http://www.greatkrypton.com/2012/10/31/superman-annual-10-the-death-sentence/

I always loved Goku's no kill policy. It's not that he has an ethical problem with killing. He just like fighting strong people, so he doesn't kill them, because that means he can't fight them anymore.

>>88546566
>So Superman should be ok with Atomic Skull breaking out and rampaging because he wasn't supposed to be his burden.

No, he's not okay with him breaking out, that's why he insisted AS be locked up. If he could have predicted his escape, he would have done something else to prevent it, that he could escape at all was an anomoly caused by the greed of those who contained him wanting to use him for free energy, which Superman disagreed with but could find no fault in, as he did not know that they'd not taken the proper safety measures to ensure he couldn't siphon energy right back from a much bigger scale then he was previously able to obtain total. From Superman's perspective, he'd defeated the Skull, said skull was contained, and there was no reason to commit any further actions aside from the then unconfirmed idea he might possibly escape.

However, if one has to concede that he might escape, one must also have to concede that he might be rehabilitated. If the realm of possibility is up for debate, then his current actions of only containing him but having armed weapons pointed at him allowed for the contingencies of both. If the Atomic Skull is rehabilitated, then not only is that a benefit to society for one less criminal, but in Superman's world the superpowered threat is a little more common, and a hero who can give Superman a challenge and easily defeat heroes like The Elite would be a boon that could save thousands.

The morality you're presenting is only in the acceptable boundaries that one possibility, that he will escape, is a certainty, and ignores safe containment, rehabilitation, or just plain his power running out and he dies.

He's not an asshole for not murdering someone who, for all intents and purposes up till a safety failure, was safely held and being a boon to society.

Here's the problem with kill policies:
1. It requires justification on a paragon of justice's part. Supes could kill, but he doesn't because he upholds the morals and laws (to a lesser extent) of society. You'd have to vaporize a continent to get Supes to even consider murder in a lot of his renditions.
2. It requires creative effort. It's one thing to have a guy like Frank kill no-name criminal baddies, it's another to have Supes kill a huge cast of superpowered characters. While the tired comic trope of "they're only dead until the next reboot" holds, it still means for that saga that's one less character you have at your disposal and one more session of brainstorming you have to do to create a new character.
2b. As a result of this, you get more bullshit mary-sue villains that suck ass and should only exist on fanfiction sites becoming canon.
3. People don't like killing in capeshit. There's a reason everyone has such a massive hateboner for Frank, and that's because he's the odd one out.
3b. A lot of times in these continuous universes, having one character go around committing murder feels like a parody of the universe. That's why Frank feels out of place talking to the supers when there's a crossover - he doesn't really fit with the universe in most scenarios.

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Superman should kill.

even in MoS, he did the right thing. Letting other people die because muh ideals is wrong, is being selfish and it goes against what being a hero is.

>>88547130
Fuck off.

>>88547130
>even in MoS, he did the right thing
Waited until a bunch of people he could have saved had been killed and then killed Zod?

>>88547130
Injustice did it better.

>>88546516
Superman operates similarly to the police. He acts using nonlethal force whenever reasonably possible to save lives and since he's superman, that's nearly every time. It's the same with the police, they're only supposed to use lethal force when lives are on the line, they're not as powerful as superman so they're forced to go in lethal more often.

Atomic Skull is like a dangerous criminal, superman can take him down nonlethally so he does. Atomic Skull is put through the legal system which didn't deem him worthy of a death sentence. Atomic Skull breaking out down the line isn't on the table because no one foresaw that.

To the cop analogy, if a cop goes by the book, encounters a dangerous armed criminal, knocks them out with a beanbag round and puts them through the legal system, it's again irrelevant to the situation that the criminal escaped and shot someone because that's wasn't foreseen. Your arguing that the cop should have taken the law into his own hands and shot an unconscious criminal because they thought they knew better.

>>88547130

The problem with MoS wasn't that he killed but that script was purposely railroaded to make him kill for stupid reasons

Zack wanted Supes to be an edgy neck snapper and created a contrived reason for doing so when any number of other alternatives could have happened.

like say moving the fucking family.

>>88545744
Why doesn't superman just take prisoners to his fortress of solitude and put them in a cage there?

It's not even an issue of due process or whatever, I mean half the villains he fights aren't even protected by US law or even international law considering they come from outer space, plus the point of due process is to counter corruption/error. Superman has literally no doubt that Doomsday or Brainiac are guilty as fuck

And he has robot housekeepers too, so it's not like it would be cruel or unusual punishment either, he could still have them fed, have them have human contact, w/e

>>88547221

that's what the green lanterns do

>>88546698

Darkseid, Doomsday, alternate-universe Zod, Imperiex, the Anti-Monitor, etc., have all been killed by Superman. Sometimes there are problems that can only be solved by lethal force, and Superman has no problems applying lethal force if it's absolutely necessary. It's not like he enjoys it or he's proud of it, although in the DCAU he was in denial of how personal his desire to kill Darkseid was.

But even then, he never actually directly killed Darkseid out of sheer personal anger: Batman made sure to keep him from crossing that line.

>>88545797
dat reference.

>>88547212
Also just the shitty framing that superman can't stop Zod from turning his head to heat vision a family and then have him snap it anyway.

Also they barely give it a second thought after the scene ends.

>>88545797
To be fair he took away the elites power by lasering something in their brain, and atomic skull doesn't exactly have a brain.

>>88547221

Probably because keeping them in the FoS is a bad idea given all the Kryptonian technology there. It's like locking the Joker up next to a chemical plant, you're just asking for a bad time should he escape.

>>88547221
> Superman has literally no doubt that Doomsday or Brainiac are guilty as fuck

That's still a problem because Superman is one guy and the world has to take his word that he's right. And what happens when he's wrong, like that time Luthor staged bombing a city just to make superman look bad (the Captain Marvel thing). And then what happens if someone impersonates Superman or another hero starts doing the same?

>>88545881
>Green Arrow kills that purple hatted guy that impersonated Kid Shazam or whatever his name was that was fucking with the league
>Doesn't kill the Joker

What?

>>88547212
you idiot.

the problem was not the family, Zod wouldnt stop and more people would die, even if the family moved.

the family is the humanity, if he lets zod go, he will kill them all, he had to kill him.

the problem was the scenes after.

>>88546400
>>meanwhile, fuckers like Atomic Skull, parasite, and entire legion of other get to keep their powers and continue the cycle of capture/escape/murder forever

But... Atomic Skull was hooked up to something SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO SIPHON HIS POWER

That was LITERALLY the entire point of his cell.

LITER-MOTHER-FUCKING-LY.

>>88547221
or actually, why hasn't he just throw everyone into the phantom zone

>>88547387
The movie didn't present it that way, it presented it like that one family was the last straw, and only because he wasn't able to stop those particular deaths.
It didn't show Superman looking over the damaged city thinking "i can't let this go any farther" all it showed was him straining to stop Zod from killing one family and begging him not to, then snapping his neck when it didn't work.

It's like the whole 'Martha' thing, you can say that it was the moment batman recognized superman as a person with parents just like he had, but shitty framing just makes it look like mommy issues.

Yes. Superman should kill everyone. Not just criminals, but everybody. They're going to let you down anyway, might as well kill them all.

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>>88546330

:O Is it time for Moral Philosophy 101 with 4chan?

I think it is

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>>88546962

Goku's a fucking faggot.

Now this guy here, he actually gets shit done by killing utter shitbags and actually manages to make the world around him better (His kid sidekicks create a whole military based around him.).

>>88547627
No one here's saying goku's a good guy, he's extremely selfish. The other anon was just saying he appreciated that.

>>88545744
kill as a last resort. Most heroes are already operating outside the law. Playing Judge, Jury, and Executioner wouldn't really be a smart move. Detain them and let the government figure out what they want to do with the villains

>>88545744
I don't. I felt what was done to the atomic skull was cruel.
>no kill policy
he seems to have no problem with killing none humans
>general rule
I think him not killing is a good way to deflect "what if he turns on us" arguments but I think he should cut the corners where he can.

>>88547555
I pull the lever, not for any moral obligation, but because I want to wave at the people in the trolley just before it crushes the guy.

Post the one with Smash Mouth next.

>>88547485
the movie did, Zod literally said: I will kill every single human in this planet. And when Superman realized that he wouldnt stop, he snapped his neck.

This scene is not bad, the scenes after are.

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>>88547555
*record skips*

Ever had to make a really hard choice before? Like, between a succulent Blue Rare T-bone or mouth watering Chicken Penne Al Fresco at that upscale restaurant on Broadway? Now you're probably all thinking to yourself, "how did a nobody like me wind up here?" Well, to answer that, we need to go back to one week ago today.

*tape rewinds*

>>88547627

>TFW a brooding martial artist who wanders around post-apocalyptic wasteland making assholes' heads explode is a way better hero than most of the ones talked about.
>TFW he's still a messiah figure.

>>88546551
I agree with your sentiment and the previous post you were responding to.
I think in a perfect world a super powered vigilante should act within the laws of their land and expose flaws in the system, then round up support for legal changes to fix them.
The problem here is that certain individuals in power will have a problem with this super powered being acting outside of the normal 'accepted' peerage of elected officials and rain down bad press on them, attempting to ruin their reputation to solve what THEY see as the problem at hand.

A guy like Superman would have a set of contingency plans all set to go for this scenario however. It's just a realistic chain of events we don't see in comics very often.

>>88547221
depending on the story he does that, sometimes he puts them in the zone

>>88546279
>Literally anyone can kill a villain once a hero detains them
There should be a character like this who like just follows spiderman around and every time he webs somebody to a wall our guy just walks up and puts a bullet through their head.

>>88547769
JL had a reasonable scenario like that. Doomsday was a force that no one could reasonably contain and would never be rehabilitated so the league agreed to banish him to the phantom zone as the only prison that could hold him. Batman agreed it was the right thing but was disguised that the league had begun to wield the power of judge jury and executioner all on their own.

>>88547818
It's nonsensical that this doesn't happen with The Joker. Every single person in the city has a reason to want Joker dead, cop and criminal alike. You can't say that Gotham is so corrupt that criminals can get away with anything but some how no one can rig a judge the opposite way and force a stronger sentence on the joker.

>>88547670
Right. A lot comics/manga don't have deaths, just because reoccurring characters are interesting. DBZ's one of the few to give a decent reason for it that doesn't feel hand-wavy.

>>88545744
if he's all about no kill policy then he should destroy all military equipment in all countries

>>88547831
Wasn't Doomsday literally a mindless killing machine?

>>88545744
1000 deaths is enough to kill, so then is 500? 250? 1? Etc.

He feels he shouldn't be responsible for drawing that line, because he is just one person. He does not make the rules or get to kill without punishment, because it would be wrong. And it WOULD be wrong.

That being said, it is 100% the society's fault for not killing or crippling these people. If Manson kept getting out and killing people and the only one who could stop him was a super hero, its not on the hero to kill Manson. Its on us, as a society, to go "OK that's plenty" and expedite his execution under the strictest, heaviest guard with as many redundant layers as was necessary to protect people from his influence.

So don't blame the hero for doing what is right. Blame their universe that is just totally OK with psychos and superhumans running amok over citizens

>>88545744
Depends on context and what the villain did.
Small time crook? No
Has actually killed millions of people? Last resort if absolutely nothing else work
Something like Doomsday who's a a mindless killing machine? Yes but i still don't like it

>>88548412
It turned out to be intelligent but it was programmed to kill superman, even aware of that it pretty much said "Eh, I'll kill superman anyway"

The only reason why superheroes have a no kill rule was so villains could reappear in future comic strips.

>>88547555
Switch halfway between wheels, Trolly is stopped by each of its wheels on different tracks. They move like 20 MPH max. You could, if you were Superman, stop the trolly, You could even put the trolley in jail. Then if the Trolley breaks out and tries to kill more people, it's the state's responsibility and the Trolley's fault.

>>88545881
You draw the line on murderers and such who have no intention of changing. The idea that it's only Bats or Punisher is basically Batman's philosophy, which is essentially bullshit.
Forget the baby Hitler thought experiment, would you kill Adolf Hitler at the height of his infamy? If even that is too much to say yes too you're just a idiotic pacifist and in fictional worlds the writer has to give you all the plot armor in the universe so you can become Bat-God or something.

>>88550156
Literally every god damn time someone kills Hitler, shit gets worse.

>>88550227
Only one person has killed Hitler, and that was Hitler, and things got better.

>>88550321
>Only one person has killed Hitler, and that was Hitler
Exactly.

>>88550227
Considering the cold war had periods where full blown nuclear strikes almost went off due to things like misunderstandings and computer glitches that were only stopped by human intervention, a major timeline change before that like killing hitler could easily create a cold war that goes full nuclear. You really can't kill Hitler safely.

>>88550543
We used the nukes on Japan not the fucking Nazis.

>>88547555
but the trolley's not even moving, there's no speed lines

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>>88545744
It's the ideal for most superheroes, because for the most part, the "self-defense" angle doesn't cut it when you're a living god. They have powers specifically so that they don't need to kill, and anytime they do its out of bloodlust instead of justice.

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Posting this for the sole purpose of reverse image searching

Problem with Supes' no kill rule is he can enforce since he can withstand the adversary MOST of the time. Even if he holds back enough, he can beat the shit out of a superbeing and do it again with minimal to moderate harm to himself.

Now let's say your average mortal hero sans batgod is fighting a superbeing can he holdback enough, but have a harder time to incapacitate which may lead to his death/serious injury or must he go all out that may lead to superbeing's death or permanent disability.

>>88545744

Nope.

Clark should have given Manchester a lobotomy here.

Then he should have drop-kicked Luthor to the sun, just to test how good his blinky-eyelash teleport system actually was.

Then all those villains who came after him and his, he's gather them all up, take them out to the middle of the solar system, and even if most hadn't survived the journal, he would still have funneled them in to the center of Jupiter.

-- Mark Miller

Superman has that belief because he can almost always uphold it

>>88545744
The heroes are generally not responsible for the failures of the justice system and metanarrative.
You could maybe pin things on Batman since he knows joker will just break out again but even then he has a suspicion that if Joker is taken out of the picture that he'll be replaced by someone worse.

>>88546698
mother fucker killed Zod under Byrne.