You know one thing we never got to see? The transition from

>>88530007
Being a star and its privileges plus the money released his horriblness

>>88530093
Why just imply that and not show it?

>>88530217
I don't think it's integral to the shows message. I understand the show exists to entertain first and tell a message second but there are geniune moments in this show where I feel like the writers are trying to tell us something. With that in mind I reiterate, maybe it's not important to the message but only entertaining.

>>88530330
>maybe it's not important to the message but only entertaining.
It actually is counter-intuitive to the message. It doesn't really matter how Bojack fell. The fact is it's himself that's keeping him down. Over and over again, it's his problems.

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>>88530007
The problem with your understanding of Bojack is that he was good natured when he was young. He wasn't he just being timid because he was another nobody trying to make his way. We see him being shit on as a kid, and thus it's expected that he'd take on his parent's traits in adulthood. The separation being, He had not only a persona to maintain, but was content with life during his stand-up days, and during parts of Horsin' Around. Charolette even see's his cowardice and timidness, and calls him out for it in flashback scenes.

We see in some Horsin Around scenes that Bojack, the lead star, can be an asshole if he wants to. Because he doesn't have to kiss ass on his own set. You see how he reverts to being timid when the executive shows up to fire Herb. That's just "human" nature, we don't need to see a transition because there wasn't one. It's called code switching, or flipping the switch. The flashbacks that showed the rise of Bojack were all we needed to see to get his personality through the years. Even without money and fame, Bojack would likely be a grumpy middle aged dude with a normal life, though the hijinks wouldn't exist without the networking and money.

This isn't to say that Hollywood didn't shape him, but I consider that to have given him circumstance, not personality.

>>88530007
It probably kicked in just after Horsin' Around ended and Bojack couldn't lie to himself effectively anymore.

You have to wonder if Bojack was always like this deep inside, an asshole waiting for an opportunity to get away with it, or if he became jaded with age. The thing is, is he more horse than a man, or more man than a horse?

>>88530007

Was he ever good natured?

His life started in a broken home in which everyone hated him and everything he did was seen as trash, and he grew up having nothing but regrets for a missed childhood and idolizing a racer in place of a father figure.

Then he got famous, we see him still being the same spineless guy he always was, with the only difference being that sometimes things look up and he gets to bully people less famous than him.

There was no transition.
I don't remember when he says it, but at some point he asks "Are some people just not destined to be ever happy?"

That's him.
There was no "fall".
He was already born at the bottom.
And he only kept digging.

Bojack was never good natured. He just had Horsin Around to keep him busy and out of trouble back then.

>>88530007
i know that part of the appeal of the show is the contrast from the old simplistic culture that exists mostly in our minds represented by an 80s sitcom and the modern fast paced uncaring reality.
But theshow takes place after all this happenned, its already cheap enough that they had to rewrite his past to also add a bad show pilot to make more drama and characters, if we keep revisiting his past how is bojack ever going to move fowards?

>>88533855
That's his major malfunction; he can never move forward because he won't stop looking back.

>>88533864
Boom. You just figured out the problem with America.

>>88533883
who the fuck wants to look fowards in america, have you seen how badly you fucked up the present?

>>88533698
They make it insultingly obvious that it's the result of his poor upbringing making him into a broken person.

>those flashbacks where his mom & dad are cartoonishly rotten
>Bojack's mom calls out of the blue to go on an extended monologue about him being a irreversibly broken

Subtly was never a strong-suit for the writers Bojack Horseman

>>88533924
we have to, though

>>88533938
well yeah but first lets fix all the shit thats holding us down like the corrupt media and democrat party, unless you want to end up in another irak war like it almost happenned

>>88533971
Exactly

>>88530217
Why bother showing it? Do you really need every detail spelled out?

>>88533698
There's three levels to Bojack. There's his surface level, grouchy asshole self that was most in evidence at the start of the show. The guy who saw nothing wrong with parking in a handicapped spot and talking about it on television and also taking a seal's muffins even though he had dibs.

There's the deeper, considerate, and nice Bojack who comes out once he has a chance to connect with people and be sincere. This Bojack is much more prominent as the show goes on.

And finally there's sociopath Bojack, who does monstrous things and destroys the lives of the people closest to him when he feels backed into a corner. Bojack really doesn't act this way very often, but when he does it winds up defining his entire character.

>>88533751
>"Are some people just not destined to be ever happy?"

FUCK

The central fucking theme of the show is his transition it's shown in every flashback and referenced in every single episode.

Every. Single. Flashback. shows one little piece of him breaking.

But it was?
Did you forget the Herb flashback episodes where we see him be a prick when Horsin Around was big? He wasn't as bad as he is know but we definitely see his egotism start manifesting.

Hell there is even a recurring joke that during that time he was having an affair with one of the child actors parents.

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>You were born broken. That's your birthright. There's no cure for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMfZyfD4U8U

>>88530639
Why isn't the line in the third panel "I wanna be an architect."?

>>88533926
>Subtly was never a strong-suit for the writers Bojack Horseman
It actually is. If you rewatch the seasons you will pick up on a lot of smart little hints and foreshadowing and all that. But I agree, the whole thing with Bojack's mom was kind of forced.

So, predictions for season 4?

>everything seems fine for everyone but Bojack
>Todd is happy with his cute not-gf who is now rich, he is not held down by Bojack
>Mr. PB is doing his politics thing, Diane is doing her new job at that blog
>PC is happy with the new management thing and her relationship to Ratboy Genius
And then it basically all falls apart anyway because the characters' have conflict over what they are doing (Diane having to write over PB, PC again unable to balance her private life and her job, Todd doing something stupid?), and them being shitty and miserable wasn't ever really Bojack's fault as it turns out. He meanwhile tries to be an actual good father figure for once in his life with his teenage daughter of whom /co/ will draw lots of porn. So it's kind of a roll reversal maybe?

>>88535873
What's Todd's ex' name anyway?

>they're in a relationship S4
she gets horny but Todd won't put out
>she suggests an open relationship

>>88536525
Emily, I think.

And yeah, I fear Todd's arc next season will be something like that.

>>88536525
>>88536536
She'll bang a guy, and Todd will just stand there and watch.

>>88536569
Nah, it will be cute and sweet like everything else with Todd and Todd will be okay.

>>88536599
>cute and sweet cucking

>>88536569
Todd will be into it though

>>88536626
Shut up, there was cucking already, Todd won't get any more of that. It will just be an "asexual relationship" that in the end doesn't work out.

>>88536626
>>88536671
Todd will film his girlfriend fucking other guys and sell it for cash. He'll start a hilarious but short lived career as a porn director.

>>88536687
Emily doesn't exactly look like a porn star.

Also, how old are the two again? Something like 25?

>>88536746
Admittedly this idea would work better if he were dating someone like Sarah Lynn, or Sextina.

>>88536776
Necrophilia is generally frowned upon, and Sextina has to lay low.

>>88536801
I knew that was coming. But I did say someone LIKE them.

>>88535298
>taking a seal's muffins even though he had dibs.
He took those muffins just to spite the guy because he was being a prick. He didn't even want them. He was just curious because he spotted them hidden under a pile of apples or something.

>>88536832
Well you could have phrased it better so that I couldn't make a comment like that.

Also, spoiler alert for Bojack Horseman s3.

>>88533926
>>88535685
I saw that scene as a twist on the idea of a quickie reconciliation between parent and child like you'd see in Hollywoo schmaltz. Bojack's mom called him up to apologize for treating him rotten and to tell him she doesn't hate him...but she also says he is irredeemable and unlovable. She just calling to say it isn't his fault (as if that matters).

>>88535873
>Diane is pressured into writing gossip on PB "for feminism"
>PB divorces her for betraying him
>PB lost all his money again so she gets nothing in the settlement (he probably gets rich again the next day)
>The blog fires her because she can't do PB gossip any more
>She has to go back to working a menial job to survive and living in a trash apartment
>She has just reached middle age and has nothing to show for being alive

>>88535428
>"It takes a real narcissist to think anyone wants to read a book about him; you know how I feel about Anne Frank."
Even in its serious scenes, this show is still hilarious.

>>88536988
>She then hooks up with Bojack
>They have sex and date for a while
>Realize they're both still miserable
>They agree this isn't working out
>Murder-suicide
>The End

>>88537112
>>She then hooks up with Bojack
I know this would probably anger me if it happened but some wishful thinking within me still thinks this will be a thing.

>>88537254
They foreshadowed it bluntly in the s3 scene with Diane and her annoying hipster friend (the female one).

As long as it wasn't just making fun of fan shipping or something, although Diane's flustered reaction leans against that I think.

Plus this show likes to play games with false foreshadowing sometimes.

>>88537460
>Plus this show likes to play games with false foreshadowing sometimes.
Like what? Can't really think of anything of the top of my head.

>>88537493
There's the pictures of Bojack fucking Sarah Lynn from season 1.

>>88537493
On the top of my head I'd say stuff like BoJack turning his life around. Diane and Peanut breaking up.

LE SAD HORSE SHOW

>>88537630
But he did do that, what is it foreshadowing to?

>>88537638
>On the top of my head I'd say stuff like BoJack turning his life around.
That wasn't really foreshadowed, that was the actual plot progressing and then taking a different direction again when he didn't turn his life around.

>Diane and Peanut breaking up.
When was this foreshadowed? Them having relationship problems is not foreshadowing, it is their story arc of season 3.

>>88537657
Why the long face?

>>88537696
The twist was that comic circumstances repeatedly prevented Bojack from even realizing he was being blackmailed with the sex pics and they ended up never getting released when Gecko paid the cameramen a petty sum.

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>>88530639

This makes me wonder if Bojack will lose all his money in season 3.

>>88535873
>The Charlotte and Penny story will come back to haunt Bojack
>PB and Diane will split, maybe one of them will die
>PC will get dragged back into Bojack's life kicking and screaming, and he will probably ruin her prospects with the mouse dude
>Bojack's daughter finds him, and he will slowly corrupt her like he did with Sarah Lynn
>Someone close to Bojack will get fed up and attempt to murder him, and he will end up killing them in self-defense. Maybe it will be Charlotte, her life now in shambles and freshly divorced because of what Bojack said at the 12 step meeting.

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>>88530217

Because then the viewers couldn't jerk off over his vague self-loathing that they relate to because they're fucking boring too.

A Citizen Kane-esque character arc is too intricate to penetrate their thick monkey craniums anyway.

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>>88537948
>>Someone close to Bojack will get fed up and attempt to murder him, and he will end up killing them in self-defense. Maybe it will be Charlotte, her life now in shambles and freshly divorced because of what Bojack said at the 12 step meeting.
>mfw "I don't care if you know their names, just google them."

This will bite him in the ass, won't it?

>>88536998

I did Nazi that coming.

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>>88537988
>"If you ever try to contact me or my family again, I will fucking kill you."

>>88538151
Reminder that "fuck" was only said four times in Bojack Horseman across its 3 seasons, and only one of them was in a comedic context (Diane's "motherfucker" across two episodes.)

The other three were in these episodes, to emphasis important lines in their respective seasons:

The Telescope, Escape From LA, It's You