I can't be the only person who thinks this dude is a bad

>>88342884

yes you are, you're also a bad person that touches himself at night.

>>88342884
Statistically, you are correct, but you're still a fag.

I thought he was a bad writer. Then I read Champions and Civil War II.

>>88344180
Buuuuuuuuurn

>>88342884
of course your not, but you're objectively wrong and have shit taste

>>88342884
sadly, you're probably not the only one, I'm pretty sure I've seen fuckwits complain about those books before.

Well, I guess I can see them not being for everyone, though if you like Batman and think those books were badly written you probably deserve to be shot for the good of the species

I don't really get how anyone who reads Miller's Batman and Daredevil and Sin City can think he's a bad writer. Being a genre writer no matter how sincerely =/= being a bad writer.

>>88344180
Ouch.

I will admit knowing about the racist lunatic he became has stained his earlier work for me a bit. Especially at the end of DKR.

>>88344561
Why? The creator isn't the work. Shit Holy Terror isn't even a bad comic if you just take it on terms of art.

>>88344561

>the artist's political leaning affects how much I enjoy their work

How pretentious can you get?

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>>88342884
Excuse me, my name is, euh, Mr. Rellim (yes, that will do), and I think that Frank Miller fellow is an excellent creator.

>>88344582
Oh yeah, all those abstract art paintings. You can read the book in every direction.

>>88344976
Mr. Rellim? That sounds like a foreign name. Are you perhaps from the Middle East?

>Dark Knight Returns and Year One?
Why is it always Batshit with you people?

>>88342884
I always thought that the appeal of Frank Miller was that his art was groundbreaking at the time in terms of paneling and stuff like that. Of course it doesn't look flashy now because it set the standard that has been followed since then. I never really cared for his writing, didn't like TDKR, thought Ronin was a massive waste of potential and a chore to read and never bothered with Sin City.

>>88344561
Islam isn't a race.
It used to be okay for lefties to hate on religions.
Also he was a HRC supporter.

>>88344561
Oh, cancer put him in his place. He voted for Hillary and everything.

>>88345264
No, technically speaking, Islam isn't a race, but when Sikhs and Middle Eastern Christians get beaten or worse for being Muslims it doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Disliking religion isn't the same as hating religious people, or wanting to forbid religion.

>>88342884
Yeah, but I still prefer him over Alan Moore.

>>88345358
The guy who hexed Miller into a cancer victim?

>>88342884
NIGGER, DON'T YOU GO HATIN' ON BASED FUCKING FREDDY KRUEGER.

>>88345398
More power doesn't mean better comic book writer. Probably jealous. Morrison needs to put him in his place

>>88345455
>Probably jealous.
Not of Miller, I'm sure.
>Morrison needs to put him in his place
HA! I love Morrison, but not even he would dare to challenge Moore. The fight would destroy reality

>>88344561
>>88344815
>>88344582
Just realized my retard phone wrote 'racist' instead of 'fascist' thereby triggering the fuck out of /co/.
When you see the guy admiring Spartans and talking about murdering protesters it just makes you wonder what he was trying to get across with DKR. Doesn't ruin it for me tho.

>>88345503
I wonder what a Morrison/Moore collaboration story would look like. What would it be about,who would illustrate?

>>88345550

>just makes you wonder what he was trying to get across with DKR

DKR is an absurdist candy-coloured fantasy. You might as well try and pull some sort of genuine political leanings out of Sin City, there's a point of exaggeration where it becomes pointless to even try.

>>88345588
>You might as well try and pull some sort of genuine political leanings out of Sin City
Well, it's the usual USA way: violence solves everything.

>>88345599
If violence isn't the answer, you aren't applying enough of it

>>88345599

>Well, it's the usual USA way: violence solves everything.

Sure, but it's not played straight. That comic runs on Robocop logic where every individual aspect is exaggerated and turned around.

I'm not going to defend post-DKSA miller but people trying to weave his entire career into a grand alt-right tapestry from beginning to end is nonsense. Artists get to become crazy old men too, it doesn't disregard their earlier works.

>>88342884
no, I'm sure there are others with bad taste too

>>88345264
>He was a HRC supporter
So he's fascist voting for a fascist?

>>88345398
They're both pals.

>>88345640
Same thing happened to Alan Moore, though not quite as dramatically. He still writes decent comics from time to time, but more and more often his comics are just him shoehorning his fetishes and talking about how everything new is terrible.

>>88345180
Did you read any of his Daredevil?

>>88345617
>>88345640
>Americans admitting they only believe in violence
It's great not to be American.

>>88345358
Do you prefer him because you think they're both bad writers, but Moore is the worse one? How does this question even come up, like you're only allowed to like one?

>>88345640
>trying to weave his entire career into a grand alt-right tapestry from beginning to end
It's called a career.

>>88345710
Are they?

>>88345180
>his art was groundbreaking at the time in terms of paneling and stuff like that
It really wasn't

>>88345764
*It's called a career for a reason

>>88345745
Violence keeps us alive, anon, has for years

It's very important to the maintenance of a civilized
society

Do people not realize that we do not have it in us to be peaceful?

>>88345820
2edgy4me, kid.

>>88345716
I mean Providence is great, right? Providence is all Moore's gift for textual analysis and reference and integration combined with his turning the screw tight on an individual character's psyche. I can equally see the Moore who wrote Century writing Providence as I can the Moore who wrote Man Reversible The way back.

And it's even neophilic, rather than neophobic too. Sure it has some of his fetish hallmarks but he really is one of the GOATs to me, even now. Not everyone could write that comic.

>>88345791
Sin City's use of negative space wasn't groundbreaking to American comics?

>>88345820
Opinions like this could probably do with a dose of real violence!

>>88345640
>Sure, but it's not played straight. That comic runs on Robocop logic where every individual aspect is exaggerated and turned around.
Yeah, this is definitely true. I read a description/review of Miller's Sin City work as psychomorphic and I think that's a good word to describe it.

>>88345882
No, it was lazy.

>>88345907
That's what an autist would think

>>88345907
kek

ok m8

I would need to know your value scale or basis for appreciating art to argue this so if you want to throw that out there we can talk, but if you don't we can't go anywhere with this.

>>88345857
>edgy

It's not though

Why do you think we have to be socialized over a period of 18 years before we are officially adults?

That's a long time to teach people not to be mean to each other, but it's necessary, isn't it?

>>88345917
>>88345928
>filling panels with nothing is high art!
Lazy artist spotted.

>>88345951
>glorifies violence
>never practiced it
Chicken.

>>88345958
Dude you can tee hee to yourself about riling people up with pretend idiocy or we could actually talk about a comic. It's your choice which.

>>88345755
>Do you prefer him because you think they're both bad writers, but Moore is the worse one?
Yes. I don't like how they treat the characters, but Miller's treatment is more respectful IMO.

>>88345861
Like I said, Moore can still write good stuff, and does seem to actively learn from his mistakes (i.e. Century -> Nemo, Neonomicon -> Providence). He was always a good writer, it's just his age causes him to slip, same as everyone.

Miller, on the other hand, seems too far gone at this point.

>>88345989
So do you mean superhero stuff, primarily? You don't like how each of them handles the established cape character?

Is that the same thing as bad writing in a work in and of itself? It's only bad when you take into account what came previously, isn't it?

>>88345981
So, enjoying dem Bendis books where the artist repeats panel after panel with just a human figure drawn? Masterworks!

>>88346029
Your choice has been noted.

>>88346070
>still not explaining why panels full of nothing are so respectable
Why am I not surprised?

>>88342884
Nah, they're both good.

A lot of his stuff after that is pretty stupid though.

>>88346112
Using negative space isn't filling panels full of nothing.

If Sin city is full of panels of nothing post them.

>>88345980
You don't need a body count of your own to know that people are combative by nature, anon

I mean, it even shows here on 4chan; since we can't actually fight each other when we get mad, we use hot words and threats instead.

No worse than what animals do when it wouldn't be prudent to fight but they need to get another animal to back off

>>88345340
Miller has never beaten s Sikh or anyone rlse to my knowledge. Calling him a racist based on the activities of others is just dumb. You're dumb.

>>88342884
Year One was saved by the art, because the writing wasn't anything speical at all. DKR was saved by the vs fags who ate up that shit writing and art so they could see Batman fight Superman. Yeah, he's pretty shit, but creatorfags love him because Stan hasn't eaten his soul yet.

>>88342884
Most people whose only familiarity with Miller is TDKR, Year One, and hearing about TDKSA, ASBAR, and Holy Terror don't like him, yes

You most likely read post-Miller Batman first, which is more or less derived from Miller Bat. So I understand how his stuff wouldn't stand out to you.

>>88345996
did you not read Last Crusade brother?

Regardless im not sure age is good reason for lesser quality stories, John Wagner is roughly the same age and still puts out 10/10 stuff. Hideshi Hino's best stuff was his alter stuff as well

>>88342884
I don't normally read geek culture oriented comics so my opinon might be of no value but I thought Year One was pretty decent. So after that I read DKR but found it to be nothing else than typical mainstream superdude crap aimed towards bullied kids. Never read Sin City but thought the movie adaptation was quite entertaining. Are the comics like the movie?

>>88348779
>So after that I read DKR but found it to be nothing else than typical mainstream superdude crap aimed towards bullied kids.

then you might be actually retarded since other than a serious house on serious earth, the dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

I actually like DKR more than Born again. For Miller's cape work, I think Daredevil run drawn by Miller>DKR>Born again=year one

>>88348905
>then you might be actually retarded
Or an adult. But I never enjoyed geek comics like superheroes as a kid either.

>>88348779
The movie is like a combination of 3-4 stories and yeah, it's pretty strongly creatively influenced by the Miller comics. They're like ~exxxtreme pulp~ but IMO worth reading. I would also say pretty much any Miller/Varley comic is worth reading for the art.

>>88348905
You're an idiot.

>>88349255
What else does "geek comic" cover?

>>88349255
If you actually think the dark knight returns is a "geek comic" youre fucking retarded. The story is ripe with mature themes and symbolism, and its an universal tale that will stand the test of time, never losing its touch with whatever audience reads it.

>>88348905
>he dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

Comics isn't literature. It's its own storytelling medium. Some comics aren't even dependent on the written word at all like Jim Woodring's Frank stuff for example.

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>>88348905
>>88349310
you tried

>>88349306
superheroes, fantasy, sci-fi etc

>>88349310
It doesn't matter how well written, mature, thematic or complex it is. You can't get around the fact that it is about a guy dressing up as a bat, fighting villians. You just can't make a concept like that non-geeky.

>>88342884
i think robert kirkman is the worst writer currently active in comics

>>88348905
>the dark knight returns is one of the only comic books that stands up to literature, just like watchmen

This guy needs to broaden his horizon.

>>88349455
So genre fiction, basically? What about the non-geek comics?

>>88349462
Worse than Brian Michael?

>>88349255
>Or an adult
I'm guessing you have a pretty superficial definition of being an adult

>>88349505
Non-geek comics are comics that aren't about geeky stuff I guess, and aimed toward adult readers. People tend to call them underground/alternative/comix/literary comics but I find those labels stupid. It's just comics to me.

>>88348905
You're a fucking retard, DKR is schlock.

>>88348905
>one of the only comic books that stands up to literature

Eh, wouldn't that be something from another genre like Maus or something by Chris Ware or Adrian Tomine?

>>88349664
Do you not think that alt/underground comics are way more geeky from an outsider perspective, though? Using geek as the defining term feels odd.

Like if we were talking prose, not comics, your sci-fi/fantasy stuff would definitely be less geeky than your comix-equivalent.

>>88349855
Okay, maybe we're just delving into semantics here. But fantasy prose is still geek culture though? I mean it's the genres (superheroes, sci-fi and fanstasy) that are geek culture. They are not tied the to medium of comics. And I'm not using the word as a slur, I got nothing against you guys.

>>88348905
he definitely has shit taste yeah, but theres better comparisons to be made than that.

>>88350064
I think you're gonna find yourself saying that last part a lot if you keep using geek. Maybe not.

>>88350064
It's mainstream culture now, man. I have never seen GoT, for example, but every regular dude I know has. My normie (i dislike this label) friends are the only reason I have seen most cape films- I'd rather read comics.

>>88350183
Isn't that the correct word though? English isn't my native tounge but I thought geek culture was sort of a universal word for capes, sci-fi, fantasy, role-playing etc.

>>88350301
nerd culture. geek is degrading.

>>88349455
>. You can't get around the fact that it is about a guy dressing up as a bat, fighting villians. You just can't make a concept like that non-geeky.

youre just coming off as underage no matter how adult and non "geeky" you try to seem to be. Its a story about a warrior/ knight coming out of retirement for one last stand, representing the oppressed people. The second act deals with how that vigilante force clashes with an actual government and the law

If youre dismissing all of this because DURR HE DRESSES UP AS A BAT then youre fucking retarded

>>88350471
Id also add to this that the dark knight returns is one of the few batman stories that doesnt need to push BATMAN into the sidelines to be mature. If you genuinely just see a guy in a costume fighting, then the problem really is in your capacity to absorb anything deeper from it.

>>88350344
How is geek degrading but not nerd?

>>88350344

I thought it was the other way around?

>>88348779
even beyond the subject matter, DKR has some of the best visual storytelling in the medium

>>88345550
>talking about murdering protesters
I don't remember that. I remember him saying that the Occupy Wall Street protesters should "go back to their World of Warcraft" or something along those lines, but I sincerely doubt he'd want to impede anybody's freedom of expression, being an artist and all.

>>88350645
>>88350593
>>88350344
This is why trying to push different definitions of words that're synonyms for "asocial weirdo" is futile. Half the people insist that "geek" is empowering and "nerd" is derogatory", the other half insists the opposite, and still some people will also try to work a third definition in there for "dork".

>>88345640
>Alt right
Miller voted for Clinton and has always been a democrat. Honestly you people who put Miller's anti-islam shit under the microscope are fucking retarded.

>>88345996
Last Crusade and his Atom mini were good though

>>88348779
I was gonna shit on you for calling tennants of the genre Geek Culture oriented comics but then I saw this >>88348905
Hooo boy...

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>>88353137
I pose a new and better alternative.

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>>88349455
>if it's not realistic fiction for mature adults such as myself it's geek fiction
Jeeeesus. So the bible is geek fiction? All mythology, geek fiction? The Odyssey, The Aeneid? Frankenstein? Wuthering Heights? Kafka? Orwell?

I don't even understand what he was going for in Holy Terror. Some of it seemed like it was trying to be serious and artsy but most of it was completely ridiculous. The terrorists put nails in their bomb for some reason, there's an entire army of Terrorists under a mosque that nobody noticed before, and not-catwoman being tied up in bondage play.
It was like a world war 2 propaganda comic but boring and colorless.

>>88344180
>I thought he was a bad writer. Then I read Champions and Civil War II.

different levels of bad

>>88353724
I'm convinced that he drew it with his penis.

>>88344582

Holy terror is absolute crap

>>88353724
He was just traumatized by 9/11 and this was his way of coping.

Americans in general were just shocked that they weren't invincible and were suddenly as vulnerable as the rest of the world had been to them.

>>88353724
>world war 2 propaganda comic
that was literally the point.
He said it way back before it even came back that it was a over the top modernised war comic.

>The terrorists put nails in their bomb for some reason
I mean bud, thats been a real life thing for a long while now.

>>88353882
>that was literally the point.
You americunts still thinking in black and white.

>>88345683
>>He was a HRC supporter
>So he's fascist voting for a fascist?

so trump isn't a fascist too. HAHA

>>88353908
British here bud, it was a up to date parody, how are people still clueless about that.

>>88346772
>Year One was saved by the art, because the writing wasn't anything speical at all. DKR was saved by the vs fags who ate up that shit writing and art so they could see Batman fight Superman. Yeah, he's pretty shit, but creatorfags love him because Stan hasn't eaten his soul yet.

this

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>>88353996
>parody
lol
>British
How does it feel to be subhuman?

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>>88346772
>>88354029

>>88346772
>he only wrote two books and they're batman
Epitome of casual

>>88354034
the comics pretty shit mayte, never said otherwise. The art on the other hand, ill defend completely.

That said, it was always intended to be a parody, miller explicitly said so and its obvious upon reading.

Seriously the fuck are you doing.

>How does it feel to be subhuman?
I feel you're more qualified to answer that bud.

>>88353948
Nobody said anything about Trump until you. I know your upset about not getting paid for your shilling anymore but come on get it together.

>>88354204
>The art on the other hand, ill defend completely.
...Seriously, how does it feel to be subhuman?

>>88342884

There may be some other asses like you, yes.

>>88354204
>That said, it was always intended to be a parody, miller explicitly said so and its obvious upon reading.

every crap work Miller do is a parody, like ASBAR

>>88353882
If the point was to make a ww2 style comic he was doing a terrible job at it. It was boring, make not-Batman and not-Catwoman beat up Osama or something. South Park did the world war 2 tribute much better.

>>88354204
>miller explicitly said so
Gee, I wonder why?

>>88344582

Except the art is extreme lazy garbage.

Literally the only appeal of the book is whereas you're a racist or really, really fond of pulp fiction without any of the things that make it endearing

>>88342884
Yeah, no, he's a fucking hack.

>>88354306
how does it feel to have garbage taste?

>>88354410
not read it

>>88354425
again, never said it was good, just his intentions with its creation.

>>88354468
he was saying it before it even came out.

>>88354410
>ASBR
>crap
Cmon son
Also if you look at good works he's done like DKR and Martha Washington it's pretty evident that Miller is a fan of parody. So maybe the problem is when he goes too far into parody territory.

>>88342884
your're right, shit artist, shitty writer

>>88354557
>>88354761
ip counter hasnt gone up once since you posted these, just stop anon.

>>88354799
Well then that counter must be broken because that's my first post in the thread. I hope that poor tumor recovers from it's terrible case of Frank Miller.

>>88354970
thats not how it works anon

>>88342884
He triggered /co/ with Holy Terror. Everybody knows you don't say a cross word about Muslims or Islam to liberals or they start frothing at the mouth.

>>88345567
As a fan of both, it would probably be shit. I assume it would be really high concept, but executed really poorly. I feel like it would diminish both of their talents, instead of highlighting either.
Plus it would probably ship late and flake out before finishing

>>88349664
>I only read mature comic books for mature comic book readers such as myself

Think about where you are for a moment.

>>88353724
>The terrorists put nails in their bomb for some reason

How the fuck do you not know what a nail bomb is?
>Explodes
>High velocity nails in every direction

Shit man