That sure is a nice characterization you've got there, it

>>88313948
>but look I put some meta-garbage in it so now i'ts improved!
>what? other writers have to ignore it and change everything because is impossible to tell stories with the damage I did?
>how bizarre

>>88313948
It's the definitive version of that character and you're just too stupid to understand it

>>88313948
Name one he's fucked up other than Magneto. All other characterisations have built on what came before him.

>>88314924
pretty much every character he has ever touched

>>88314949
You have no argument shut the fuck up.

>>88314949
This, he's great with OCs but he likes to turn established characters with established personalities into a bastardized grant morrison versions of themselves

>>88314924
Don't you know, anon, writing good stories is bad characterisation for capefags. 90s X-men and Cucka/Brubaker/Winnick era Batman is good characterisation.

>>88314949
>Dick
Great
>Bruce
Ok-ish
>Talia
Great
>Scott
Great
>Beast
Good
>Lex
Amazing
>Supes
Good

I'm taking some examples from different runs and that doesn't seem to be the case, man.

>>88315007
And Morrisonfags eat it up because they don't read any comics not written by Grant Morrison

>>88315080
all his stuff has been retconned to fix those characters

Nice meme ya got there. Shame if ya couldnt actually back it up.

>>88315007
Yeah, Daniels and Snyder sure did fix Batman, Bendis fixed X-men for the better and so did everyone who followed on Action Comics.

He wrote the best Bruce Wayne in decades. Ever since he left no writer has been able to get Bruce right, Snyder and King both write him as a stubborn unlikable asshole. Tomasi did all right but he still came across as a bit dickish.

ASS and Action Comics Clark were both great versions of the character. ASS is arguably the best Supes has ever been.

Literally perfect Captain Marvel in Thunderworld.

Most times when he does a radically different take on a character its an elseworlds or (in the case of action comics) a relaunched version where he can do whatever he wants anyway. I think he's one of the few popular writers who actually respects established characterizations and builds on them, often times distilling all the great things about a character that have been created over decades of continuity into one version.

Unlike writers like Bendis, Johns, Slott or Millar who just ignore previous characterizations and do whatever the fuck they want. The only time Morrison has ever done that was with Magneto and arguably Darkseid.

>>88315294
>I think he's one of the few popular writers who actually respects established characterizations and builds on them, often times distilling all the great things about a character that have been created over decades of continuity into one version.
If you mean all the great things you mean the golden/silver age CCA bullshit, while ignoring the past 25 years of continuity, then you're totally right

>>88315294
I'd argue that Darkseid was shit before Morrison wrote him as an actual Godly being and a proud ruler that Kirby intended rather than as a Supes rogue or some ordinary alien warlord that DC had bastardised him into.

>>88315377
>golden/silver age CCA bullshit
The only thing that CCA affected in cape comics was their popularity. If you think capes were serious and not for kids before CCA hit them, you're an idiot. Stuff like Superman and Captain Marvel were always silly and kid friendly.

>>88315464
No shit sherlock, that's not what my argument was about

>>88315425
I think people forget how ordinary Darkseid was throughout the entirety of Countdown and for a good while before as well. Final Crisis was a legitimate undoing of that

>>88315503
>My argument wasn't about what I said.

>>88315534
For a morrisonfag you have pretty poor reading comprehension

>>88315294
his Bruce Wayne was the biggest asshole ever
Snyder's Batman is a saint compared to his

>>88315592
Nice argument. I didn't even defend Morrison in my post. Stop backing away from what you said.

>>88315642
Shut the fuck up bitch.

>>88315667
not an argument

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>>88315642
My argument was that he ignored recent continuity for CCA bullshit, at least for Batman

>>88315690
what continuity would that be? Posting ASBAR is an odd thing to do alongside that post

>>88314888
Can't argue with Superhitler trips.
Glad someone climbed on board of that meme train, though.

>>88314949

Then you should have no problem naming some

>>88315749
I'm not going to read comics for you.
And I posted the pic for the are you retarded line.... retard

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>>88313948
>post wrong picture because all bald guys rook same
That's racist OP

>>88315791
fucking dreamworks face

>>88315776
Batman
Nu52 Superman
Magneto
Damian
Tim Drake

just to name a few

>>88315836
To be fair, he created Damian, which is why he's such a terrible character

>>88315836
How the fuck did he change Damian's and Superbro's characterisation when he literally made them.

>>88315871
>>88315884
the point is that his Damian was so terrible that writers like Tomasi, Gleason etc. had to totally change him to make him work in the major continuity

actual Damian has barely nothing from his original appearance

also some people say that since it was based on Son of the Demon Morrison didn't create Damian but just reused an old concept (he was also in Kingdom Come as a glorified cameo)

>>88315871
What was Morrison's plan with Damian? Keep him around, be little shit and kill off?

>>88316027
Yeah, and he should have stayed killed off too

>>88315951
>Tomasi
Yes, the guy who had a run of 2d characters and hamfisted moments. Ironic that you mention Tomasi while blaming Morrison for going back on characterisation.

>>88315836
>Superman
Literally the only cape writer in the modern age who gets Superman right, unless your only exposure to Superman is Jurgens era Superman and everything that followed,

>>88314924
Talia but that's the only other one I can think of.

>>88316115
Editorial isn't shitty only at Marlel.

>>88314888
>if you don't like it, you don't understand it.
That was fast.

>>88316237
I'm mean she was raised by the league of assains and is the daughter of an a centuries old ra's al ghul she just went completely crazy at the fact that she'll never have batman

>>88315080

I like Morrison but his characterizarion can be hit or miss.
Id argue that turning Talia into a Ra's a Ghul:babymamadrama edition wasn't an improvement. Hurt was a shitty villain with great build up and piss poor conclusion.

>>88316399
Hurt tried go toe to toe with the joker and failed miserably I'd say that's a pretty satisfying conclusion

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this is why comic fans are so shitty

you have this awesome original writer who writes some of the best capeshit of all time and all you fuckers can do is whine about him messing with established characterization or some shit

same retards who hate MoS and BvS because
NOT MUH BATMAN NOT MUH SUPERMAN

NOT MUH MAGNETO

NOT MUH TALIA

>>88316656
>original

nothing original in butchering pre-existing characters
if was really that good he would concentrate on his own personal works

>>88316809
His Superman was alright, but I wasn't reading Superman comics for 20 years before I read his take on it

>>88315080
>>88315836

You guys are forgetting Chief from Doom Patrol.

His re-vamp of Caulder was even worse than what he did with Magneto.

>>88315294
Morrison's Darkseid is the best version of the character besides Kirby.

>>88318127
Not really, you're just a baby and a plebeian.

>>88315425
Great Darkness Saga is pretty aces. Giffen is probably the only other writer than Morrison whose New Gods I really enjoy

>>88316656
Morrisson is great, keep your SHIT DCEU with you, queer.

>>88319327
What's tour favorite non-Morrison Batman run?

>>88315504
People SHOULD forget the entirety of Countdown.

>>88316399
>Hurt was a shitty villain


He was great, fuck you.
One of the things is that hurt wouldny live up to batman saw fear in the devil's eye.

Tha's why he get owned by the joker, villians don't have to be COOL to bve good villians. It's the same that happened with Lex in the bBvS movie, he was a great villian and true to everything all Lex had been, but he wasnt cool and didnt acted like the cartoon version or Loeb's so he had to be "bad", we are getting too used to "cool" villians

>>88319327

Morrison and Snyder take on the characters it's pretty similar, the difference is the medium and how both want to develop said take, in the case of Snyder his "modern" myths are put on contrast with a world that reacts in realistics way to this "gods", so everything goes to shit and the result is highly mixed, Morrison on the other hand takes the "modern myths" and takejust push them even farther. Superman is SUPERMAN for people that has superstrenght, Batman isnt only "peak human" he is the ultimate human, a trickster that can defeat gods, his JLA are gods, they can face angels and everything that you can think of, so what does Morrison do with his modern myths? he makes them fight Mageddon, a weapon to kill worlds of gods, And millions are elevated to the godhood status...

It's pretty interesting how the same concept can be played is such different ways. Snyder is a talented autist, Morrison is the best CAPE writer of comics ever, they are not on the same level, but even if you hate snyder you can't deny there's something similar, also they both make people mad

>>88319601

Fuck you, Arena was a bad comic done right, the ony problem is that Captain Atom fags will never forget how OP monarch was

>>88314924
Emma Frost

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I love Morrison stories but he can really fuck up a character for the sake of his need for meta sometimes

>>88322551
Actually making him a red headed stepchild was a bit heavy handed, but I mostly blame Battle for the Cowl and Daniel's for Jason at this time.

>>88315616
Snyder can write good DickBats, but his Bruce is way off. Almost as much as his Alfred.

>>88315836
>Damian
wat

>>88313948
Are you that guy who posted that thread a few days ago complaining he ruined Magneto.

>>88315294
He did a different Darksied than Kirby but it really fit the story he as trying to tell in Final Crisis. He also totally nailed Darksied being the tiger-force. He arguably had the best lines in all of Final Crisis.

At least his Darksied wasn't a jobber alien.

>>88315616
>I didn't read Morrison's or Snyder's Batman

>>88322551
The only time Jason was worth reading.

>>88315616
Because Snyder's Batman was hardly a character besides zero year.

>>88313948
This is a literally "I started reading comics since zero year" the post.

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>>88322551
That Jason was way better than this Jason.

>>88323300
Wasn't the whole redhead thing from pre-crisis Jason Todd or am I somehow mixing that up with something else?

>>88326032
>Wasn't the whole redhead thing from pre-crisis Jason Todd

It is.

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>>88320817
Out of all the character's he wrote you pick Emma Frost? He wrote a great Emma. Having her join the X-Men totally changed her for the better.

He completely fucked up nu52 Batman by being a huge baby and refusing to go along with the company and kept everything in a big hissfit making Batman make absolutely no sense now.

>>88326298
>Wanting a clean reboot

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>>88326032
>>88326101
It was. But that Jason for all intents a completely different character, he was a circus kid and everything. Bringing back him being ginger and using it as a reason to go psycho was weird.

>>88326406
A want a reboot that sets up a continuity that isn't a clusterfuck.
Morrison is 100% responsible for how Bruce went through 4 Robins and had 2 Robins die and Batgirl get paralyzed within 5 years.

>>88326508
>within 5 years.

They shouldn't have rebooted to say "the JLA formed Five Years Ago" in the first place.

>>88326508
Editorial should have waited for Morrison and Johnes to finish up their runs instead of rushing the Nu52

>>88319601
well yeah, that's the point.

Darkseid's portrayal in Final Crisis was reversing how fucking lame he was for a while before it.

>>88315080

>Morruson Talia

>Good

Nigga', you high.

>>88326553
>>88326662
>hurr morrison has never ruined a character
>he messed up this one pretty badly this way
>uhh uhh that isn't his fault

>>88327031
1. I never sad Morrison never butchered a character (I happen to agree that his Talia was weak)

2. If you think Nu52 Batman is "ruined" because of a convoluted background I think comics aren't for you. Do you think Morrison should have just left his run unfinished or something?

>>88327200
So you were just pretending to be retarded then? Nice non-argument.

>>88327305
How was I pretending to be retarded? How was my answer a non-argument?

Considering Morrison started his run before the Nu52 was even thought of, as with Johnes, how would you have handled it?

>>88326298
Giving his Bat-Epic an ending was worth making all the shitty Batbooks that came after confusing.

>>88326140

Morrison was only continuing the groundwork laid down by Generation X though.

>>88315294
This. Though I don't feel he messed up Darkseid's character, rather his depiction of Anti-Life was off.

>>88327305
>>88327031
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>88313948
It's been more than a fucking decade already, stop being salty about magneto.

>>88332291
make me

>>88328519
His Darkseid is messed up in a very subtle way. Kirby's Darkseid is the ultimate tyrant while Morrison's is the ultimate evil; for Kirby's Darkseid evil is a byproduct, a consequence of his nature, for Morrison's Darkseid evil is his nature and as such every action he takes is to create evil.

>>88326422
it made no sense

>>88316656
It's weird to me that people take comic shit so seriously when...it needs strange variation to keep it new and interesting over 70 fucking years of life. I mean, if something comes out that you don't like, just brush it off and wait for something else or make some yourself. When it comes to established canon, we're dealing with a FICTIONAL MULTIVERSE. Nothing ever really needs to be explained. Fuck it. Just move right the fuck on, everyone.


Anyway, Morrison is fucking amazing and fuck you guys

>>88340148
>Anyway, Morrison is fucking amazing and fuck you guys
I bet liking Morrison makes tou think you're smart

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>>88322551
Pathetic daddy-please-respect-me Jason Todd is a lot more interesting and original than the laughable edgelord we ended up with.

Pic related, it's Red Hood.

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>>88326298
>MUH CONTINUITY

Big fucking deal. As if N52 wasn't a clusterfuck to begin with.

Morrison's Bat-Saga makes sense on its own. Snyder's Bat-Saga makes sense on its own. The various 2nd tier Batbooks written by other writers during N52 probably make sense on their own.

If you're so neurotic that you can't enjoy them unless they ALSO line up flawlessly with every other Batman story ever written, that's your problem.

>>88328519
Dunno, I think his Anti-Life was thematically similar enough, just seen from a different perspective. Kirby's Anti-Life was the ultimate hate filled ideology while Morrison's Anti-Life was the consequence such an ideology would have on the individual. If anything I would begrudge Morrison for not examining it further, but thematically I think it's fine.

>red/blue supes
>normie Logan
>ancient Batman, pirate Batman etc, non Gotham centered Batman
>doom only exists in Richards mind
>Marvel boy lol

Morrisonfags will defend this

>>88340381
Well, I will take edgy over pathetic anytime. also, I liked shadow

>>88326422
That doesn't look red to me.

you are wasting your time with people that believe in hypercrisis and think they are smarter for reading meta-fanfiction about superheroes instead of actual smart things

also most of them probably never read anything other than Morrison's stuff so in their mind "that's the definitive version of the character!"

>>88340425
There is literally no point in a character being copyrighted if continuity doesn't fucking matter.

>>88340608
>doom only exists in Richards mind

I've not seen that one but I'm enthralled with how retarded it sounds.

>>88340597
To add to this, while Kirby's Anti-Life equation was undoubtedly thematically stronger, Kirby was pretty shit at actually showing us how terrible it was. The bits with Billion Dollar Bates just ordering people around and them having to obey was remarkably silly overall. Morrison shows the effects of the Anti-Life equation in all its shiver inducing terror.

>>88323380
>>88325806
>>88325865
Those are all nice memes but Snyder's Batman actually acted as a human and not like some distant detached tibetan monk who has the perfect answer to everything.

If you actually read anything about Batman you would have know that he is alwasy second guessing himself and because of that often makes the wrong choice.

>>88340677
>I have not read Morrison's Batman

Morrison has devoted entire issues solely to Batman second guessing himself and letting doubt worm its way into him.

>>88314924
How was Magneto not a genocidal lunatic before?

>>88326864
Talia's entire character was "Oh Batman I love you, I will betray my father for you, well actually now that that's over, I'll just go back to him so we can recycle this all over again in two years time" exotic waifu shit, before Grant went and did something more interesting with her.

>>88341006
>every Batman character must be turned into a vicious mastermind with no regards for human life

and people shit on Snyder here

>b-b-ut she le wasn't interesting!!!

>>88341032
Talia literally approves of the "wipe out most of humanity for the betterment of the world" doctrine that Ra's preaches unless Batman happens to come across it.

>>88341073
Talia was just a girl torn between loyalty to her father and love for his detective.

It's not something groundbreaking but in a universe where everyone is a monster in some capacity it was quite refreshing.
Of course we can't have that anymore in a Batman comic, everyone must be a terrible irredeemable criminal.

>>88341032
>Defending Snyder
Now I see where all the Morrison hate comes from.

>>88341097
At least Snyder was humble enough to admit when he fucked up and to retcon things.

>>88341112
>Not muh is important than quality
This is characterfags in a nutshell

>>88341096
I don't see how lusting for Bruce's dick makes her complicity in genocide plots redeemable. With no Ra's around, Batman rejecting her attempt at building a family together and Damian abandoning her in favor of his father, scorned mother is miles better than most stories where she was a generic manic pixie dream girl for Batman fanboys.

>>88340677
Snyder's Batman is a mindless action hero relying on his absurd gadgets who is so broken with the death of his parents that he still self-harms everyday -- by being Batman.


Morrison's Batman in contrast took joy at his abilities and actions and was Batman because he couldn't help himself -- normal life would have bored him to tears.

>>88341185
>>88341188
Yes, Talia as a generic mastermind is so much better. Truly the most original take in the Batman mythos, O'Neil was a hack after all.

>>88341290
Well, O'Neil didn't write definitive version of Batman.

>>88341006
>How was Magneto not a genocidal lunatic before

The entire reason for why anyone gives a shit about Magneto, and why he's at all unique character, is because you can actually sympathize with his motivations and argue that he's right. Take that a way and you have any other F-Lister. You destroy him.

If my only exposure to Morrison came from that and his Jason Todd portrayal I'd get the idea that the man is incapable of understanding moral ambiguity. Ironically, "black" and "white" like with Rorschach and some of the edgier anti-heroes he criticized.

>>88341290
O'Neil's run was considered good because he wrote good stories. Batman's run was considered good because he wrote good stories. Only autistic characterfags base quality on how characters are showed.

Funny that you mention O'Neil, since he would've been considered a hack too by modern characterfag standards for not following on the 50s and 60s tone of Batman. So back to CBR with you.

>>88341228
Snyder's Batman is a younger version of the hero finding his place and defining himself as a symbol of hope for Gotham.

Morrison batman is a meme character that just solves everything with some gimmick and Gotham is constantly caught into Batman's personal problems
Morrison sucked so much at writing Bruce he had to replace him and Tim too be able to do something

>>88315425
anyone who writes darkseid as space satan instead of space nixon is shit, morrison included

>>88341820
>writing a literal god as a human politician

I haven't read Fourth World, but how does that make for a more interesting interpretation? The way Morrison wrote him, Darkseid truly did feel like something greater than any of us. A being who would fill any man with both religious awe and terror.

>>88341188

>Talia
>generic manic pixie dream girl

...what?

>>88341820
You are just mad Morrison wrote the definitive version of Darkseid

>>88341859
then go read the fourth world

kirby's darkseid is the most entertaining version of the character because of how incredibly petty he is

>>88341473
>Snyder's Batman is a younger version of the hero finding his place and defining himself as a symbol of hope for Gotham.
I agree with you that this is the premise of Snyder's run. However, one of the main themes of his run is that Bruce becoming Batman is a necessite tragedy and the manifestation of Bruce's self-harming tendencies.

Personally I don't agree at all with this interpretation of Batman, but some might find it appealing.

Morrison batman is a meme character that just solves everything with some gimmick and Gotham is constantly caught into Batman's personal problems
Morrison sucked so much at writing Bruce he had to replace him and Tim too be able to do something.
> Gotham is contantly caught into Batman's personal problems in *both* Morrison's and Snyder's run (e.g., Court of owls, all Joker stories, Batman and Robin eternal) as it is very effective narrative tool to make the reader more invested to the story. But Morrison did use it only twice as far as recall which is certainly not higher than Snyder's.

Morrison had very good grasp how to write them all, Alfred, Bruce, Dick and Tim -- (Jason maybe not that much :P), and that's why his idea of Dick as Batman fit so perfectly and Damian is still relevant today.

Compare this to Snyder's need to replace existing characters with his OCs (Harper, Duke, Julia) and his version of new Batman and Robin. I can guarantee that Gordon's time as Batman will be only fondly remebered by people making quizzes.

>>88341431
Morrison is perfectly able to understand moral ambiguity, he just doesn't think it has a place in cape comics due to his belief in their role as modern myths and morality tales.

For all his reinventions and reinterpretations, Grant is firmly in the "Not Muh" crowd where the particular Muh in question is a portion of the Silver Age.

>>88342500
Are you seriously trying to claim that Snyder is wrong for creating OCs, especially considering one of the characters listed was explicitly used as a stand-in for another character he was denied, when Grant's run was almost entirely OCs?

>>88342500
what the fuck, Julia is not a Snyder's creation

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>>88341859
Best Darkseid is one that summons tornadoes at weddings.

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>>88341919
> Morrison's Darkseid wasn't petty

>>88344504
he was mega boring in final crisis

>>88344626
I can't think of any point in Final Crisis where Darkseid's pettiness would have even been appropriate, let alone make the story better

This is a thread I'd expect on cbr or comic vine.